T. Belman. I am also an advocate of Israel being more flexible on conversions. To demand that applicants must want to become orthodox is an unreasonable standard and works against the interests of the Jewish people. Just as Israel has a right of return without proving one is a halachic Jew, so must Israel lower the requirements for conversion so that more people will convert. What matters is that he or she wanted to join the Jewish people and that their children would be Jewish. If the orthodox won’t accept them as Jews, that’s their business. But it is no reason for other Jews not to accept them.
But Israel should not allow liberal Jews to affect how it sees the conflict or the solution to it.
AJC discusses issues of religious pluralism at Knesset committee meeting.
Decreasing support for Israel among US Jews is a “national security threat” for the Jewish state, the American Jewish Committee’s Dov Zakheim told a meeting Wednesday on religious pluralism at the Knesset Immigration, Absorption and Diaspora Affairs Committee.
Zakheim, the chairman of the AJC’s Jewish Religious Equality Coalition, is a former senior US defense official. Noting that he still advises the Pentagon, he said, “my concern is driven by my background in national security.”
Zakheim attended the meeting as part of a visit to Israel to advocate for religious pluralism. Since its founding in 2014, the broad-based coalition of American and Israeli Jews has warned repeatedly that the Chief Rabbinate’s monopoly over personal status issues, such as conversion and marriage, poses threats to Israel’s democratic nature and ultimately to its national security.
It maintains that any weakening of the US Jewish attachment to Israel could adversely impact the US-Israel special relationship.
Play
“Eighty-five percent of our community is not Orthodox, and because they’re not Orthodox, neither they nor their rabbis or leaders are recognized officially by the rabbinate of this country,” Zakheim said, pointing to issues of marriage, divorce, conversion and burial.
The AJC 2016 Survey of American Jewish Opinion found that 74% favor extending legal recognition to non-Orthodox weddings, divorces and conversions. The survey also found that 41% consider securing legal recognition of equality for all streams of Judaism the most important change necessary in Israeli Judaism.
“This is a major problem for us in the US for those of us who love Israel and want to see as close as possible ties between the Diaspora and Israel,” Zakheim warned. He added that the problem extends further than the US – to Canada, Britain and other countries with Jewish communities.
“If you want to look for a long-term and close connection between the Diaspora at large and Israel, you have to solve this issue,” he told the meeting.
He pointed to Jewish support of the BDS movement, the backing of the deal over Iran’s nuclear program, as well as a lack of loud opposition to the recent UN Security Council vote against Israel. Zakheim said that the number of Jews supportive of Israel is rapidly decreasing. “To me, it’s a national security threat to Israel,” he reiterated.
Zakheim was joined by Steve Bayme, director of AJC’s Contemporary Jewish Life program, who said that the relationship between Israel and the Diaspora must be understood in the context of Israel’s “incredibly successful narrative of the modern Jewish experience.
“But as Israel has become the center of world Jewry, responsibility goes with it,” Bayme said, noting that statements made by Israeli officials reverberate greatly throughout the Jewish world.
Pointing to Birthright, which brings thousands of young Jews to Israel every year, Bayme said some participants visit the country only to find that they wouldn’t be eligible to marry here.
“We’re trying to attract a critical mass of Jews to Jewish peoplehood, but the message they hear is that, due to the monopoly of the rabbinate, Israel is not central to their lives or relevant to their personal identity as Jews,” he said.
Bayme further noted that the value of equality is central to the education that US Jews are raised on. “When they find a lack of that equality, they are dismayed,” which in turn, according to Bayme, harms their degree of attachment to Israel.
AJC Board of Governors chairwoman Harriet Schleifer added that, as the state of Israel has developed, the perception of it from the US has changed, too. “Israel is now a strong country, so we are no longer worried about its stability,” she remarked, likening Israel’s transition to a “David-turned-Goliath.”
“The connection left is that we are Jewish, but if 90% of US Jews lose that identity because they’re told they’re not Jewish enough, who is going to fund in 20 or 30 years time, $38 billion over 10 years?” she asked, in reference to the US military aid deal signed last year with Israel.
“Israeli society must understand that, because we love our brothers here, we are afraid that at the end of the day Israel will be alone – Israel cannot be alone in the world; it needs all the friends it can get,” she asserted.
Noting that the Jewish populations of Israel and the US are of similar size, she stressed that they cannot afford to lose one another.
“Please don’t make young US Jews feel less connected or even apathetic,” she implored.
MK Elazar Stern (Yesh Atid) reiterated a recommendation he has advocated in the past to US Jewish leaders, based on criticism that their approach toward the Israeli government is not tough enough.
“I have no doubt that Israel is an anchor for the Diaspora communities, but so are they to Israel,” he said, opining that they “are making a joke” of themselves when they say they will discuss these issues with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, whose government he accused of evading dealing with them.
He recommended that they don’t invite members of the Israeli government to conferences in the US, unless they support and recognize their conversions and the Western Wall prayer site agreement. “I agree it’s an honor to meet with the prime minister, but I think you should say ‘no thanks.’ You need to try new tools.”
Neither Bayme nor Zakheim, however, is receptive to this suggestion. “I think it’s much more complex than that,” Zakheim told The Jerusalem Post after the meeting. He backed a response by Immigration, Absorption and Diaspora Affairs Committee chairman Avraham Neguise, who said that meeting with the prime minister was vital in order to reach a solution.
“It’s always more important to talk,” Zakheim reflected, adding that dialogue with members of the Israeli coalition is important to convey the “depth of their concern.”
For his part, Bayme told the Post that the subject should be put into the larger context of the work US Jews have done to build bridges and support for Israel. “If we engage in politics of confrontation, it can have unintended consequences.
We have been trying to enhance the image of Israel in the American public mind,” he explained.
“I prefer politics of diplomacy and dialogue,” he said, describing Israelis as members of the same family. “Family talks to one another.”
He was keen to note, however, that he understood Stern’s comments and views him as a “major ally.” AJC’s relationship with Diaspora Affairs Minister Naftali Bennett, conversely, appears to be far weaker.
When questioned about this, Bayme said he had met with Bennett several years ago and observed radical differences of opinions on the issue of settlements and a solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
“I can’t say we have the most productive relationship with him… and I would certainly welcome a relationship with him,” he said.
“Those differences shouldn’t be fatal to a relationship.”
Edgar G. Said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WwzYhVL5Sc
Edgar G. Said:
Texas is a state of being.
Edgar G. Said:
my Father played Cyrano in High School, he said his nose made him a natural for the part.
Edgar G. Said:
I hear he lost his head over a woman.
Edgar G. Said:
At five I was reading the “Chicago Tribune”, my Father and I would trade sections. I got the Funnies first, then the Front section. The first thing I remember readomg was a sign that said ,” Maternity Ward Nursery”.
Edgar G. Said:
San Jacinto just outside of Houston.
Sebastien Zorn Said:
WOMEN, BEING SO MUCH MORE INTELLIGENT THEN MEN, CAN MEMORIZE THE TORAH AND REPEAT VERSES AT THE WALL.
@ Sebastien Zorn:
xxx
Yes a bit; vaguely. I believe I’ve come across mentions of her in books by Harrison Ainsworth of which I have quite a few. She was very studious and clever I think, and remarkable for a woman in that age, which was sometime in the middle 17th century. I don’t recall much more…except that she was a maid of honour or a lady in waiting to the Henrietta Maria, wife of Charles the 1st of England executed in 1649.
It must be 40 years since I last looked at any of the Ainsworth books. I saw the film “The Tower of London” first, when a kid and was very impressed. So looked for the book of the same name which happened to have been written by Ainsworth, and collected more from there. Boris Karloff and Basil Rathbone, doing gruesome things, can’t recall what. I think the Little Princes in the Tower came into it somewhere, via Karloff. This happens to be an absorbing interest of mine. .apropos this, you should read Josephine Tey’s “Daughter of Time”…masterful. I also have the 2 volume “diary” of Phiilippe De Commines..a very old edition…absorbing stuff to me, mentioning the Continental rumours.
As for Cyrano, I saw the play about 60 years ago, and have seen other excerpts on screen many times. He’s always brought up somewhere at some time or other. Roxanne etc…… the love scene below the balcony is hilarious…to me. I know that the real Cyrano wrote that book but somehow only recall glancing through it, somewhere some place. I dimly recall that it was a sort of upside down place he landed in. Oh yes, I read a sort of comparison between it and “Gulliver’s Travels” in the absurdity of the contents, very hilarious for the times etc.etc.
Other than the above….NO. ,
@ Edgar G.:
Are you familiar with Margaret Cavendish and Cyrano de Bergarac? (the real one). I’m sure you know of Da Vinci’s helicopter but I bet a lot of people would be amazed.
‘The Description of a New World, Called the Blazing-World
by Margaret Cavendish, Duchess of Newcastle (1624?-1674)
London: Printed by A. Maxwell, 1668.’
http://digital.library.upenn.edu/women/newcastle/blazing/blazing.html
==
‘Cyrano de Bergerac (1687). The Comical History of the States and Empires of the Worlds of the Sun and Moon. Written in French by Cyrano Bergerac. And newly Englished by A. Lowell, A.M. Translated by Archibald Lovell. London: Henry Rhodes.
Cyrano de Bergerac (1889). A Voyage to the Moon. Translated by Archibald Lovell, Edited by Curtis Hidden Page. New York: Doubleday and McClure Co. Retrieved 5 April 2015.’
https://archive.org/details/avoyagetomoon01pagegoog
http://www.leonardodavincisinventions.com/inventions-for-flight/leonardo-da-vinci-helicopter/
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2016-08-18/uber-s-first-self-driving-fleet-arrives-in-pittsburgh-this-month-is06r7on
Sebastien Zorn Said:
xxx
I was reading Astounding Stories of Super Science Fiction about such things when about 5 years old. My new brother in law would get them from an enterpreneur for tuppence, read, and lend to me, then return getting a penny credit, and a new issue…. Wonderful years….until he fell out with my parents……
honeybee Said:
xxx
When I think of moderation re Israpundit, I visualised a machine with each letter of every post being scrutinised under a high powered molecular microscope. Ted has no control of it except to rid himself of the whole system, a mammoth task, or try to wiggle around it in ways known only to himself…and he may not even be able to do that. I realise now that it’s harmless, and every single word, or even a letter, should I post one, goes into moderation but yet, I myself can read my post already printed on the site. Probably you too can. Perhaps the machine is set up so that only the poster can read his post whilst in moderation to soothe him…who knows a mindless machine.
@ honeybee:
xxx
For WHAT PURPOSE…..?? Why to study up on Texas of course it’s so BIIIGGG. I even know that Davy Crockett wore his genuine coonskin hat (with the tail carefully arranged down the back right in the centre) and looked a lot better than Fess Parker….
But…the prize of all is that I have found out that the chief object of veneration in the WHOOOLE State, is the daily adoration of Santa Ana’s WOODEN LEG, captured at the Battle Of Whadda-Ya-May-Call-It and that a whole Temple industry has grown up around it, acolytes, beautiful virgins and etc. (admission to ceremponies only $25)……… It’s really BIIIGG….!! Ain’t it?
@ Sebastien Zorn:
On the Merits, I’d say, “Why not,” but on the “Meretz,” I say, “Hell no!” Let them come here. They’d fit right in. They don’t belong there. They should stop making trouble and leave.
@ Sebastien Zorn:and sales all over the place.
xxx
Essex’s sec.in 1599 was Henry Harvey, describes his imprisonment in Dublin Castle as well as other inmates O’Donnell and O’Niell etc.icons of Irish history. .. easily googled. There are prob a million hits on Geneva Bibles,
Many are seriously damaged, unsaleable, and some years ago I was corresponding with a couple who were selling single pages, (worth nothing) suitably framed, guaranteed to be 3-400 years old, with a synopsis of the GB written by hand. Very enterprising, and I considered doing it myself, which would bring in maybe $100,000 for my book, even the leathered board covers would fetch a mint this way….but just couldn’t do it, nor to emulate them. They wrote me letters in beautiful fake ancient script with a broad quill nib, long “esses” etc. very convincing.
@ Sebastien Zorn:
xxx
For that I’ll have to slow down my perusals and try to recall the items you ask for. I never bother normally. I see the headline and immediately plunge into the article or essay. I’ve actually seen articles in the same outlet contradicting one another…several times.
Someone on this page today-has commented on “moderation”, making a feast from a crumb. This takes some doing believe me, real intelligence..contradicting the innocent approach… a study in “something-or-other”….. Myself years ago when a member here I was “moderated”. I immediately regarded it as a personal offence and leff the site until my more recent return. I know nothing about the quirks (and quarks) of mindless machinery then, so regarded it as a slap across the face with a glove, pistols for two coffee afer-for one….
http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/High-Court-hints-women-should-be-allowed-to-read-Torah-at-Western-Wall-478114
See on the merits, I would say, “why not?” I remember when I told my father that I was interested in having a Bar Mitzvah, how he snarled at me that his mother (the observant daughter of an Orthodox rabbi in pre-war Hungary who was later murdered at Auschwitz) wasn’t allowed to read from the Torah.
But, this is why not. Not now, anyway.
http://www.jewishpress.com/blogs/abu-yehuda/resolution-2334-and-the-women-of-the-wall/2017/01/12/
Jews who would give away the store — traitors for short — need to be discriminated against, marginalized, excluded, and towards that end, insulted and humiliated where ever possible along with their arab clients. I’m not even convinced that their spirituality is genuine. I think they are just using this issue as a wedge to destroy the Jewish tradition that stands in between Eretz Israel and the barbarian Trojan Horses at the gate. These neo-Quislings/Kapos, are truly the inheritors of the Jewish Hellenists who were the first to fall before the Maccabees. I want to see them cry.
@ honeybee:
Sometimes I think the machine is doing it automatically according to its own –unknown– internal rules*. I discovered a trick for getting around that. In your initial post, type one character, any character. Immediately select edit, delete the character and enter your post. You have a time limit so you might want to type your post first at your leisure and then copy and paste it.
So when I see the post is in moderation, I select all (control A) cut (control X) and select update, start new reply or post, paste (ctrl V), post.
*
Now do you understand the meaning of videos I posted about machines — and machine-like people — running amok? And now they want to give us driverless cars? Are they nuts?
—
P.S.
I finally understand what people saying, “moderation?” are talking about. I thought they were criticizing the content of other people’s posts. I’ve been thinking of it as “Moderator Purgatory.” Apropos of Nothing, the Tibetan Buddhist equivalent of Purgatory is the Bardo. I read that 60s hottie, Brigitte Bardot, has been sanctioned for “Islamafauxbia” recently. Good for her. Can’t think of a joke to go with the punch line though.
P.P.S.
It occurs to me that there is something distinctly machine-like about the mindless insistence, despite all evidence, that the TSS is somehow good for Israel and Jewish survival. The Borg (from “Star Trek, the Next Generation”) are machines with subordinate human elements absorbed into it. The Borg swallow and assimilate everything, create nothing. Destroy what can not be assimilated. Collectivist Machine/human hybrids. Very much like Islam.
Why am I in moderation for asking questions. Do my questions need reformation?
@ Sebastien Zorn:
@ Edgar G.:
Reformed Judaism
What in Judaism needs reforming?
Does one go to Reform School to learn to be a reformed Jew ?
Edgar G. Said:
For what purpose ???????
Sebastien Zorn Said:
AT LONG LAST A FUNNY JOKE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@ Edgar G.:
Tres cool! Still, please, at least put an old fashioned citation like Title, Author, publication, location, date. Otherwise, how can one address the data you are using? Thanks. There might be two conflicting articles even in the same paper. Theoretically.
@ Sebastien Zorn:
xxx
SZ…(chic) If I had to post a video or be severely penalised, I’d have to take my medicine. I’d only give myself a headache trying to figure out how, even with full instructions.
It’s no accident that I’m an avid reader, finally having a library of over 7,000 books including some collectors volumes. The gem is a “Breeches Bible” frontispiece dated 1615, by the King’s Printer Robert Barker (James 1)… but with several parts printed as early as the mid-1500s. Both complete Torah and New T., plus two full Concordances, full Index, the Apocrypha and all the Psalms with words and music, the crotchets with diamond shaped heads etc. etc. In those days the books were printed seperately, and those chosen by the buyer were taken to a bookbinder to be bound into a single bible volume. So there can be 50 Geneva Bibles, none with the same contents. Over many years, I’ve never seen one with everything-except mine. The parts were likely smuggled in from the continent. Ussher’s chronology and comments are in the margins etc.
By the way, our family business in Dublin began in a building exactly next door to Ussher’s huge Bishop’s Palace on the River Liffey bank, today (and for 200 years) it’s the Mendicity Institution, and the area is called “Ussher’s Island”….. The diary of the Earl of Essex’s secretary (Elizabeth 1’s Essex) details the whole area by names still used today. “Bridgefoot St. Bridge”, (about 35 yards from the former Palace), is described as “the Crossing at the Bridge’s Foot”. Interesting…eh..?
Since I discovered the free books on the internet years ago I stopped buying. I could have 100 books on the same subject , each from a different aspect. I spend about 14 hours a day reading-or writing-every day…. !!
@ Edgar G.:
Don’t post videos that way since Ted doesn’t want to see the video filling the screen just the link. For videos, in youtube, click on “share” and copy and paste the link that comes up.
@ Sebastien Zorn:
xxx
I’ll never be able to do as you instruct. Since I was forced to take Windows 10 everything has gone haywire. I can just type and google the internet, also read books via Gutenberg et al. Nothing else. It’s a sad story.
I was not young when PCs became popular. I bought a couple and a large HP colour printer for my kids who said they needed them for schoolwork, and promised to teach me. But they spent all their time playing games and emailing their pals…kids you know. So I never learned. After about 4-5 years I was handling windows 7 quite well…then my son bought me a new laptop, with windows 8, then on the same PC windows changed to 8.1, then to 10 before I ever got the chance to find my way through even one new maze. To me all the signs on the keys are as hieroglyphs.
Sorry, and thanks.
Edgar G. Said:
It’s easy. Just highlight the address in the web bar– if you don’t know how, the easiest thing is to position the cursor (arrow) to the right of the web address (http:etc.) left click once to position it, and type control a for select all– and type control C to copy. Then, after positioning the cursor in the body of the post where it will go, type control V for paste. Double check it after. I used to put the titles of everything because the virus actually switched some of the videos I posted with other people’s*. (Nearly all of the videos I posted — for which I got flayed alive — were intended to illustrate a point, metaphorically or poetically, if you will) But, it doesn’t seem to be a problem now. Still, check it by clicking on it after. Also, make sure there is enough space between link and surrounding text. These are pre-windows key-board shorcuts that should work in every windows, android, or chrome program. Works with apple too, I believe. Instead of the control key there is another symbol in the same place.
—
*Carrie Fischer had not been in the news in a long time. Not that I had noticed. I recently got to wondering about something. I searched for and found the post in which I had posted the video of the scene from the movie, “The Blues Brothers,” in which her character confronts John Belushi and said that I thought this a good illustration or metaphor for how Oslo happened in a nutshell. I googled, Carrie Fischer, politics, and discovered that she had been furiously tweeting against Trump all year. I looked up the date she had a stroke from which she died the next day. It was five days after this post which uses a pre-political-correctness liberal cultural text to puncture the liberal sacred cow of the two state solution. Coincidence? Fischer plays Rabin, Belushi plays Arafat. Liberals are that intolerant. They are always saying they will leave the country if they don’t get their way at election time. Apparently, some would rather leave the world. The new Senior editor of Breitbart, Milo, whose brilliantly perceptive and funny talk on Muslims and the Borg I posted, said the aim of fanatic leftists like fanatic muslims is to make us stop laughing because when they hear laughter, it means somebody is going off script. Brilliant observation. Never heard of him before. Young guy. Reminds me of the funny but depressing observation by Tom Lehrer that it was a sobering thought that when Mozart was his age, he’d been dead five years. I’m envious but I’m a fan. I won’t be a Salieri. Incidentally, I prefer the appellation, “SZ.” Has a cool 19th C, Modern Library edition ring to it.
https://youtu.be/aY4YOsjCI-Q
What do you think? Was it a pointless post? Or perceptive.
@ Edgar G.:
Yes, this is intolerable.
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/223108
Ideally, they should all be deported but that will never fly. What can be done, legally? Does Israel have anti-polygamy laws? Relinquishing territory is not and never will be an option.
Wait!. I just reread the article. Says they are foreign born. Why can’t they and their children be deported? Does Israel have a law that says that the children are automatically citizens if they are born on Israeli soil? If so, can it be repealed? If not, can’t the parents be given the choice of being deported with or without their children? Wouldn’t they take their children? One way or another, they clearly must go. As you say, there is no way to compete with this, and, moreover, why should it be necessary? Even legally? International law clearly states that only the civil and religious rights of non-Jews living in the territory of the Palestine Mandate in 1920 are protected, and the national rights of no non-Jewish population. That’s why the U.N. definition of an arab refugee from Palestine is the descendant of an arab who lived there for at least two years before 1948. Completely illegal. And weird. That’s what got Joan Peters thinking and researching. The vast majority of the Arabs who lay claim to our land are the descendants of illegal immigrants who came later from the 22 Arab states that were set aside for these people. They must be required to go back there or where ever else they like. Their continued presence is like a spreading, festering cancer. The word metastasized is so over-used but it clearly applies. They are out to destroy us. They only want our land because we want it. They never did before in any numbers. Foreign agencies like the EU should be clearly labeled for the enemies that they are and accordingly shut out, anyone receiving assistance from them should be prosecuted to the fullest extent. If anyone brings Israel or her officials before a foreign court, that entity’s diplomatic and other personnel should be stripped of immunity and arrested. Torture would be a perk but Israel isn’t Russia. In the good old days. Unfortunately.
@ Bear Klein:
xxx
Sebastien, I myself just chscked quickly on the internet and there ar emany articles about it. One, in yesterday’s A7 dated 13/1/2017, (time diff) said that there are over 30,000 illegal foreign Bedouin seeped in from the PA and other areas with multiple wives, that in 1948 there were 11,000 and last year there were over 200,000, that many Arabs all over have several wives. It also named a Knesset member, (can’t remember who-Abd el something or other) who right now has multiple wives.
Many, MANY times you must have read my saying that we cannot depend on the likely temporary approaching parity of the Jewish birth rate with the Arab. that ALL IT TAKES, is for a lunatic imam to stand up in the mosque one Friday night and preach that they can destroy the Jews by the women having just ONE MORE BIRTH each.
I’ve said it time and time again for years, although not in the past 3-4 months, being occupied with the US elections more, and a few other things.
Their birth rate is 5.5% (per woman?) and their population doubles every 13 years……. They are more than 30% of the total Negev population….
That should be something for you to go on, and you can confirm yourself, and likely get much more info than I hurridly did.
@ Sebastien Zorn:
xxx
Sorry, I’m no good at posting links unless I have just read the article and know where to find it. I read lots of different articles in all sorts of venues. It was just yeaterday or at latest the day before. They are having scads of children and it was written about on Arutz 7. don’t know my way around the computer at all. You very much do. Perhaps if googled the very article would come up.
Really sorry, but take my word for it, it’s there.
Ted I concur completely with your statement below:
“I am also an advocate of Israel being more flexible on conversions. To demand that applicants must want to become orthodox is an unreasonable standard and works against the interests of the Jewish people. Just as Israel has a right of return without proving one is a halachic Jew, so must Israel lower the requirements for conversion so that more people will convert. What matters is that he or she wanted to join the Jewish people and that their children would be Jewish. If the orthodox won’t accept them as Jews, that’s their business. But it is no reason for other Jews not to accept them.”
But Israel should not allow liberal Jews to affect how it sees the conflict or the solution to it.
@ Edgar G.:
No, I didn’t see the article. Please post the link. Thank you for raising the issue, however. I was unaware of it. Found this interesting article that seems to bear on it.
http://www.thetower.org/article/why-the-bedouins-claims-to-the-negev-are-outrageous/
@ YJ Draiman: The assimilation trend is reversing itself here but reform Jews, while not reproducing themselves in the long run, can do a lot of damage if they come to Israel because of their penchant for appeasement. Personally, what concerns me is our physical extermination. For those of us who are believers who wish to continue the tradition for its own sake, the news is good. Let’s leave well enough alone for the time being.
Some articles I think you will find of interest:
61 percent of Jewish Children in NY are growing up in Orthodox Households
http://www.jta.org/2012/06/12/life-religion/new-study-new-york-jewish-population-rising-increasing-in-diversity
http://forward.com/opinion/357517/dramatic-orthodox-growth-is-transforming-the-american-jewish-community/
http://www.timesofisrael.com/new-study-reveals-ny-jewish-population-increasing-diversifying/
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/03/orthodox-judaism-millennials/476118/
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/bs-md-orthodox-jewish-trends-20150912-story.html
http://www.jta.org/2015/08/26/news-opinion/united-states/how-many-orthodox-jews-are-republicans-and-11-other-findings-from-pew-on-orthodox-jews
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/oct/16/majority-of-british-jews-will-be-ultra-orthodox-by-end-of-century-study-finds
http://www.jta.org/2016/04/18/news-opinion/politics/7-things-to-know-about-the-jews-of-new-york-for-tuesdays-primary
When you start compromising our Jewish traditions and values and try to modernize it. You are advancing assimilation, which is bad enough today. Thus going in that direction will make Judaism extinct, like many other religions, empires and nations. The reason Judaism has survived while other religions have diminished or disappeared is because our adherence to our code of law, traditions and the observance of as many as 613 Mitzvot as possible. I will ask you one questions how many Jews today observe the 10 Commandments. Many do not want to admit that they are Jewish or do not know that they are Jewish.
Sebastien Zorn Said:
xxx
Sebastien you’re dreaming if you hang your hopes on this piece of temporary semi-parity. We have to have this condition prolonged for at least 10-20 years to show a definite trend. I personally do not believe that this trend of religious Jews having 6-10 children will continue indefinitely. They will eventually think of wanting some better technical goodies, and more comfort. It ALWAYS happens with civiised people. I could almost guarantee that the next generation will have fewer children. Did you not just yesterday see that Bedouin infiltrators in the Negev are swamping the area out through polygamy. What do we know of how many open and secret wives these animals have. Are theese barbarians who practice honour killings, and genital mutilation as well as female slavery going to stop the custom of 1500 years just to conform to civilised mores…..
And for the past at least 10-15 years I have been vehemently writing that there is nowhere else for any large Jewish block to come on mass aliya. The Americans wo ‘t come, and after the Russians, where are we to find them. Those days are gone for ever. I also point out in conjunction, that if Freund spent his millions on trying to prevent abortions instead of finding fake Jews, we would have an extra 30-40,000 souls, without frittering away multi billions on Aliyah. Those who want to come on Aliyah do so from conviction that they are one with the Jewish Nation, and 90% of them would come anyway, without inducements of free this and free that.
HUH…!!
bernard ross Said:
Do they co-sponsor “Nakba Day” events on college campuses with anti-semitic, pro-pal, pro-terror groups? I’m not talking apathy here. Reform is less than 4% in Israel. You want to change that?
@ bernard ross:
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/11/nyregion/in-democratic-stronghold-of-new-york-city-trump-finds-support-among-orthodox-jews.html?_r=0
@ Bear Klein:
(cont.)
To Paraphrase JFK, I think it’s time for Jews to stop asking what Israel can do for them, and start asking, rather, what they can do for Israel. “The Yoke of Heaven,” I believe Kahane called it.
It’s a paradigm shift that’s called for.
@ Bear Klein:
(cont.)
In fact, it’s odd that they would even want to make aliya since Reform Judaism’s whole raison d’etre is assimilation. In fact, the reason that the NY Times assigned the Shoah to the back pages and has been so hostile to Israel and Jewish tradition is that it’s Reform Jewish founder was hostile to the idea of Jews as a people much less a nation. Reform Judaism is built on the idea that Jews are merely the adherents of a religion and the “promised land” is whatever one’s country of residence. That’s why they dropped Hebrew. Hence the old joke:
“Dear Sir”
“When an Orthodox Jew talks to G-d he says: “Ribono Shel Olam” (Master of the World).
When a Conservative Jew is in touch with G-d he says: “Avinu Malkeinu” (Our Father, Our King).
A Reform Jew addresses G-d as: “Oh L-rd, Thou art One.”
A Reconstructionist says: “To whom it may concern.””
http://www.haruth.com/jhumor/Jhumor8.htm
And I might add the Jubu (another problematic group — I am the only nationalistic Zionist Jubu I have ever met) talking to a NY hot dog vendor: “Make me one with everything.”
Though I have to say this joke is dated. I can’t remember the last time I saw a hot dog vendor. Now it’s “Halal” wagons everywhere. Serious. And growing numbers of women in Chadoors, something I never saw before a few years ago.
—
It’s ridiculous, you know? It’s a country the size of New Jersey. For those of us who are not fleeing persecution with nowhere else to go. For those of us, who are not believers. Why do we have to go there and make trouble? It’s enough to be supportive of our brothers and sisters. From over here. Where we belong.
—
In case you wondered why I said I was a secular Jew and then later that I was a Jubu and don’t remember my earliest posts when I introduced myself after being asked by Ted, after saying that I am of Jewish descent on all sides going as far back as anybody remembers, I said something like – When people ask me my religion, one of my responses is to reply to the effect that I am a filial son. My mother believes in reincarnation and my father believes in nothing. So, some days, I believe in reincarnation. And other days, I believe in nothing.
@ Bear Klein:
Israel has no civil marriage. One cannot marry without permission of the (Orthodox) Chief Rabbinate if one is Jewish. It serves as a disincentive for non-Orthodox to make aliya.
http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Op-Ed-Contributors/Israels-marriage-laws-are-discriminatory-331386
“…Data on the number of Reform Jews in Israel is difficult to come by, but think tanks estimate that fewer than 4% of Israelis consider themselves Reform. Orthodox control of the state rabbinate renders Reform Judaism politically marginal, as Reform marriages and conversions go unrecognized by the state. While Orthodox institutions get state funding, the Reform movement is left to fend for itself, or to look to American funding, with a few exceptions. But the movement is also socially sidelined by the prevailing attitudes of people like Sattath’s parents, fiercely secular Israelis for whom religion is anathema.
‘Contrast that with the United States, where Reform Judaism, with hundreds of thousands of members, is the largest denomination. Small though it may be, when Israel’s Reform movement is denigrated — which happens not infrequently — the insult reverberates through the halls of Jewish power in America. That’s what happened when Religious Services Minister David Azoulay from the Orthodox Shas party claimed on Israeli radio in early July that Reform Jews aren’t real Jews…”
http://forward.com/news/312116/reform-in-israel-but-are-they-real-jews/
Secular Jews don’t seem to be a problem. Both BB and Shaked are secular Jews from secular, Jewish families, as am I, as was my secular, socially liberal, father who was, however, very pro-Israel and voted for Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush. It just seems to be the Reform who are bent on committing suicide. And considering how lax their requirements, what does it even mean, do you suppose, to be a reform convert? During the “who is a Jew” controversy over reform Judaism’s introduction of patrilineal descent in the late ’90s and it’s impact on the law of return, I read a book about it in which an Orthodox rabbi said the reason for matrilineal descent is that one get’s one’s core sense of identity from one’s mother at the moment of birth, what she believes she is, there is no stronger bond*. He said that this is borne (no pun intended) out by the fact that statistically over time, the descendants of Jews who marry out have tended not to be Jewish after four generations in diaspora. One of the greatest “Jewish” composers, Felix Mendelssohn Bartholdy, was in fact baptised as a Christian at birth and raised as a Christian though he had a great affection and identification with the Jewish people. (Karl Marx had the same upbringing without the affection.) Ironically, Mendelssohn’s grandfather was none other than one of the pioneers of reform Judaism, Moses Mendelssohn. None of his descendants remained within the Jewish community.
—
* The requirement that a U.S. President be a native born citizen either by virtue of being born here or of two parents who are American citizens is obviously inspired by this. Many of the founding fathers were avid Hebraists and if you google the origins of that clause in the Constitution, I forget what it’s called, you will see in the Wikipedia article on the subject that the Congressman or Senator who proposed it early on used exactly that same argument about core identity and hence, loyalty.
For the US liberal Jews it their way or the HWAY! The increasing number of orthod in the future will compensate very slowly. At least other Americans are “Zionist”.
Israel has allowed Jews whether reform, conservative or orthodox to make aliya. This has been the law for a long time.
There is no political test. Law of Return http://www.jewishagency.org/first-steps/program/5131
Israel has accepted converts for purposes of aliyah people from any recognized stream of Judiasm http://www.irac.org/userfiles/Guide%20to%20Conversion%20-%20Seeking%20Aliyah.pdf
More info found at http://www.nbn.org.il/aliyahpedia/government-services/government-benefits-new-immigrants-oleh-chadash/the-law-of-return/
Having Jews such as the liberal/reform (say borderline athiest) immigrate, is parallel to saying Madonna is Jewish because she practices Kaballah, and kisses Brittany Spears in sisterhood. Please keep them away from the camp of Moses and the true Israel whose hearts are loving our Creator and love His Word.
To say that Jews convert to Christianity is an incorrect application of the event. Most Jews I know who have looked at the idea of Christianity, remain fully Jewish in all respects. It would be the uneducated Jew who would surrender the faith (whole hog) out of ignorance. Christians (pre-corruption dogma) sat in the synagogues on Shabbat to learn the Way of the Hebrews. Many if not most christians today want to call themselves ‘hebrew christians’ because they ‘get it.’
Orthodox Rabbi’s would be correct to uphold the ancient path which
is the authorized faith of the Patriarchs. They/we are to teach the correct way and turn those in error towards what is right according to the entire revealed Word.
Having said that, embracing and stretching and reaching for higher truth is a subjective endeavor of each individual Jew and is their inherent right to think freely.. as long as we/they adhere to the
ancient path as dictated by Moses and the prophets to keep the commandments of
G-D.
What then shall I say about the RABBI’S SILENCE of permitting same sex marriages, permitting them to adopt children, and permitting Lesbian Gay Bi-sexual and Transgender LGBT PARADES through the streets of Jerusalem? Is that the kind of
Orthodox Authority that has the right to judge? By default, they cannot judge if they are silent on that issue.
Yad Hasmona, an observant community in Jerusalem was SUED$$ by a same sex lesbian couple for being denied the right to use the Yad Hasmona social hall for their
wedding reception. It was explained to them that this would be against the precepts of their Hebraic Faith, but the lawsuit was filed regardless. The Jerusalem Magistrate found Yad Hamona guilty, and awarded the lawsuit victory to the lesbian couple.
Can we ask the Rabbi’s to petition the court to rescind the judgement of the court?
THIS IS A CLASSIC EXAMPLE OF HOW AND WHY… the Rabbi’s and The Land of Israel cannot play both the Holy Card and then act as if nothing is happening!
They cannot have it both ways. If the Lord be G-D, serve Him. If Baal be GoD ….
WHAT’S IT GONNA Be???
funny, I dont see this orthodox attachment to Israel… I saw 950k Jews attend a rabbi’s funeral.. but other than that I never see them attend any pro Israel protests in large numbers nor protest the muslim pollutions of Jewish holy places. They protest to avoid the army, retain monetary perks, etc It appears to me that the religious zionist is not the majority of the orthodox Jews. Zionism appears to have lost its flavor for Jews in general.
It appears to me that those who have been given the monopoly to determine who is a Jew in Israel are not very patriotic to Israel or to Jews. What about those ten lost tribes, what is their plan to identify them and bring them back?
@ Sebastien Zorn:
http://www.jpost.com/Diaspora/Reform-Jews-cheer-Bidens-criticism-of-settlements-and-his-support-for-Israel-432370
If Israel were to bend and allow “reform” authority for conversions and the like, it would result in a disaster. Still, orthodoxy is in critical need of reform.
My personal view, as a person who has made Aliyah, experienced orthodoxy, after rejecting reformed, is that all of these branches be dissolved and that a single all inclusive Judaism be adopted. I do not want to be stuck with a bunch of numbskulls who all agree with one another. But, treason is a horse of a different color.
All must agree, Jews who commit treason against Israel must be banished, for good.
Neturei Karta should be so banished, as well as J Street.
The orthodox need serious reforms. It will take generations.
@ Sebastien Zorn:
Must correct myself. The campus article was a good example of J street, bad example of Hillel. I misread. Here is an example of what I was looking for
“U. Penn Hillel Co-hosts Event With pro-Palestinian Group
The event, which featured a speech by former Knesset speaker and Jewish Agency head Avraham Burg, appears to be a violation of Hillel’s policy.”
The Forward and Batya Ungar-Sargon Apr 27, 2015 1:07 PM
read more: http://www.haaretz.com/jewish/news/1.653772”
http://www.haaretz.com/jewish/news/1.653772
This reform lunatic is angry that Hillel still opposes BDS (for how long?)
http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.698145
Oh, here’s a gem, says this campus Hillel originally supported it but then backed off:
http://forward.com/news/340488/jewish-students-hold-nakba-commemoration-event-despite-hillel-organization/?attribution=articles-article-related-1-headline
@ Sebastien Zorn:
80 percent marry out, patrilineal descent, reproduce below replacement rate, support retreat to ’67 armistice lines. Virulently active on the anti-Israel Left but in the name of support for Israel. J street has two Reform rabbis on its board. Majority here. From a survival standpoint, I would be less worried about large numbers of Jews converting to Christianity — which I also oppose — than to Reform. Reform Jews want to give away the store. With friends like this, who needs enemies. Reminds me of that line attributed to Marco Polo — he voiced the sentiment but the line sounds too contemporary to be authentic — “The moderate muslim holds the infidels feet while the radical muslim cuts off his head.” One could change “moderate muslim” to “Western liberal” — Jewish or not — without altering the sense of it.
http://www.jpost.com/Jerusalem-Report/Have-Reform-Jews-given-up-on-Israel-435824
This article mentions TWO Hillel board members in support of a campus anti-Israel event. Who should want to import this to Eretz Israel?
http://www.thecollegefix.com/post/24753/
me·shug·ga·na
m??SHo?o??n?/
nouninformal
noun: meshugenah
a mad or idiotic person.
Origin
early 20th century: variant of meshuga.
Translate meshugenah to
Use over time for: meshugenah
This is what concerns me about allowing adherents of Reform Judaism, currently a small minority in Israel though not in the U.S., to freely make aliya. As I noted earlier, if the election were held here, where the Orthodox are a minority, Herzog would replace BB tomorrow. The Orthodox overwhelmingly supported Trump, non-Orthodox, Clinton. Here is the recent statement by the President of the Union of Reform Judaism in which he praises Obama, Kerry and the TSS although taking mild issue with the abstention in the Security Council.
http://www.urj.org/blog/2016/12/28/runaway-freight-train-settlement-expansion-endangers-two-state-solution-union-reform
While, absent national security issues, I would, on the merits, advocate a separation of shul and state, we live in the real world, so I support the continued monopoly of the Orthodox. That being said if the the Neturei Kartei, Satmar or Toldos Aharon who oppose Zionism and Israel and support the Pals, the Naturei Kartei were even hosted in Iran, were ever to become representative of the Orthodox, and by some miracle, the liberals were to become the nationalists, I would switch sides in a heartbeat without hesitation or regret. As was pointed out in that video I posted from Karnei Shomron, Israel from the river to the sea, including Judea and Samaria, in other words, has consistently been two thirds Jewish, to one third non-Jewish since 1967. And we know that the Arab birth rate no longer exceeds the Jewish birth rate. American Reform Jews who make aliya will be a different kind of demographic threat. The “support” of such Jews is neither possible nor desirable. They should be pressured, marginalized and excluded as much as possible.