Instead of the fixation on an independent Palestinian state, the new administration should look east to the Hashemite Kingdom as a stabilizing influence on Palestinian politics.
By Hillel Frish and Yitzhak Sokoloff, JPOST
IN HIS first meeting with President Donald Trump, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is likely to stake out common ground on the issues that have most troubled American-Israeli relations during the last eight years, namely Iran, and Israel’s settlement policy in Judea and Samaria. Particularly in light of the recent Security Council Resolution 2334 labelling Israel’s settlement activity illegal, he will need to seek American support for renewed Israeli building in Jerusalem and the blocs, and a renewal of the guarantees of the “Bush letter.”
Far beyond that, the inauguration of a new American administration also presents the opportunity for Israel to take the lead in advocating a far more ambitious initiative – a major investment in the economic prosperity and political stability of the Kingdom of Jordan.
The gravitational force of a prosperous Jordan would expand the functional links that have always existed between the cities of the West Bank and Amman. It would encourage Palestinians in the West Bank to look to a link with Jordan as the best guarantee of their political and economic future.
Because of this, Jordan has the potential (once again) to become a major stabilizing influence on Palestinian politics, which would serve the interests of Israel, Jordan and the Palestinian people itself.
The reemergence of a Jordanian role in the disposition of the West Bank is much preferable to the present international fixation on the concept of an independent, contiguous Palestinian state whose border is based on the 1967 line. Such a Palestinian state is no less of a long-term strategic threat today than it was before the advent of Oslo. So too is Palestinian irredentism a threat to Jordan’s security. A Palestinian state in Judea and Samaria is likely to succumb to a Hamas takeover, to Iranian influence, and become a theocratic and autocratic state along the lines Hamas presently rules in Gaza. Moreover, it is unobtainable.
Despite Israel’s acceptance of the two state concept and its agreement to unprecedented territorial dispositions, Israeli concessions have not met the minimal Palestinian demands required for a peace agreement, nor are they ever likely to do so if the Palestinian Authority is seen as the only possible partner in the peace process.
The inauguration of an American administration uncommitted to the principle of an independent Palestinian state provides Israel with the opportunity to advocate a long-term strategic vision of building up a prosperous Jordan that could provide an alternative to the model of a two-state solution based on the Palestinian Authority.
Such a vision will not only attenuate the Israeli-Palestinian conflict but, equally importantly, it will bolster a Jordan whose importance to regional stability has never been so crucial.
Even more critical is Jordan’s role in containing growing Iranian influence, especially after Iran, along with its terrorist arm Hezbollah, succeeded in placing its candidate in Lebanon’s presidential palace making Beirut the fourth capital Iran basically controls in the Arab world. The recent rout of the rebels from eastern Aleppo and the complete takeover of the city by Syrian, Hezbollah and other Iranian-backed forces have major implications on the Sunni- Shi’ite balance of power.
Actually, the two pivotal roles Jordan plays in the fight against ISIS and against the Iranian- Syrian axis are interrelated. The Jordanian population is Sunni, extremely fearful of the growing Shi’ite menace to the point that if the Jordanian state fails to appear sufficiently strong in stemming the tide, they might turn to ISIS to do so, as indeed many of the Sunni tribes in Iraq did in the past.
Jordan has traditionally been a pro-Western state ruling through cooption and consensus.
Though Jordan is not quite a Jeffersonian democracy, it is far closer to that ideal than any other Arab state in the region. Critics of such a plan will quickly point out that a role is being thrust on the key player, Jordan, that it does not want in the first place. This is certainly the case rhetorically.
Jordan has been committed to a twostate solution since the Oslo Accords. Yet, there are two pieces of evidence that the Hashemite Kingdom is flexible and open to political opportunities. The first is that the Hashemite Kingdom, throughout the past twenty-five years since its announcement of the severance of ties with the West Bank, has refrained from amending the 1952 constitution, which enshrines a Kingdom that unites the two banks of the Jordan River – the East and West Banks.
The second is the trial balloons the Kingdom releases from time to time regarding the feasibility of renewing the Jordanian option. The last was released in May this year, when former Jordanian prime minister Abd al-Salam Majali met 100 notables in Nablus in a meeting arranged by Ghassan al-Shak’a, a Nablus-based member of the Executive Committee of the PLO. Simultaneously, in the Hebron area Jordanian MP Muhammad Al-Dawaimeh launched the “One Million Hebronites” initiative to promote a confederation, and the Hebron delegation was to meet with King Abdallah to discuss this issue. Though it should be noted that al-Shak’a stressed that such a Palestinian-Jordanian confederation could only come into being after a Palestinian state is created.
Four actors can play a critical role in making Jordan prosperous, and all four have a vested interest in making it happen.
The Saudis and the Gulf states should provide the finance. The United States should prod them to do so certainly for their own good but also to reciprocate for the American security umbrella under which they have been living since Saddam Hussein occupied Kuwait. President-elect Trump, throughout his campaign, has stressed that he wants US allies to pay for the security umbrella the US provides. This is one way the Gulf states and Saudi Arabia can reciprocate.
Channeling money to the Palestinians through Jordan would also improve transparency and assure that less money is channeled to incitement and terrorism. It will be important to gradually wean away international aid from the PA to Jordan to enable the latter to extend its influence in the West Bank. Israeli-Jordanian security cooperation, historically extensive, can also play a vital role in securing the cooperation of the security forces presently operating under the Palestinian Authority.
Recent trends bolster the prospects of such a project. Locally, the possible breakup of the PA into north and south as a result of the struggle over Abbas’s succession could revitalize the links between Nablus and Amman, and Hebron and Amman. The PA’s inhabitants by that time will pine for the stability Jordanian influence can offer. Regionally, Jordan has never been a more important strategic asset for Saudi Arabia and its Gulf allies, well-worth investing in. It defends what remains of these states’ northern flank against Syrian-Iranian encroachment, and helps balance the threat Shi’ite Iraq poses to Saudi Arabia’s eastern border crucially near to its major oil fields. Internationally, the current leadership of the European Union, the champion of the two-state solution (almost to the point of being an obsession) has been considerably weakened by events such as the takeover in Crimea and Brexit. With the vast increase in Islamic terrorism on its home ground, the European Union might be inclined to join a venture that will be part of the front against terrorism rather than creating a state that might well promote it.
Above all, a new president, new to politics, beholden to no political establishment and a seasoned businessman with a history of making opportunities come true is moving into the White House. The vision of making Jordan prosperous and the gains of such a venture to the interests of the United States and its allies might well fire his imagination.
Prof. Hillel Frisch is senior research associate at the Begin-Sadat Center for Strategic Studies. Yitzhak Sokoloff is a fellow of the Ingeborg Rennert Center for Jerusalem Studies at Bar-Ilan University.
@ bernard ross:
Recently, Foxworthy was asked to tell the public what he thinks of President Obama. Let’s just say that Foxworthy didn’t hold back.
He posted the following response to his Facebook page:
If you can get arrested for hunting or fishing without a license, but not for entering and remaining in the country illegally — you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.
If you have to get your parents’ permission to go on a field trip or to take an aspirin in school, but not to get an abortion — you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.
If you MUST show your identification to board an airplane, cash a check, buy liquor, or check out a library book and rent a video, but not to vote for who runs the government — you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.
If the government wants to prevent stable, law-abiding citizens from owning gun magazines that hold more than ten rounds, but gives twenty F-16 fighter jets to the crazy new leaders in Egypt — you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.
If, in the nation’s largest city, you can buy two 16-ounce sodas, but not one 24-ounce soda, because 24-ounces of a sugary drink might make you fat — you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.
If an 80-year-old woman who is confined to a wheelchair or a three-year-old girl can be strip-searched by the TSA at the airport, but a woman in a burka or a hijab is only subject to having her neck and head searched — you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.
If your government believes that the best way to eradicate trillions of dollars of debt is to spend trillions more — you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.
What do you think? Do you agree with Foxworthy?
A lot of the above and more can be said about Europe and Israel…..
@ bernard ross:
BB is a stinking liar and coward I believe Zell
@ bernard ross:
😀 😀 😀 😀 😀
@ bernard ross:
Finally some sanity!!
http://www.timesofisrael.com/amid-us-travel-ban-israel-set-to-bar-entry-to-boycott-activists/
thats what I predicted would happen… the problem would be BB… trying to pin it on Trump…. asking Trump to delay it AND keep his request secret and quiet.
@ Edgar G.:
Applause.
@ Sebastien Zorn:
xxx
Why didn’t you do a Berra and write it as De Nial, and then something like Cleo Patrick drove de snakes out of the Egyptians.
@ Edgar G.:
“Denial is not just a river.”
@ Sebastien Zorn:
xxx
It’s not a question of “wanting them” into their country. “Their” country is really YESHA Arab country, and Jordan (as a “kingdom) certainly wouldn’t even dare-apart maybe from a symbolic shoe of resistance, and that’s only “maybe”- go against the power of Russia and Trump’s America which is showing that it will be used if needed. Russia already has been throwing it’s weight around to no practical resistance from the world at large.
Jordan has been on life-support for years already, for most of the midget king’s reign, only held together by it’s over-benevolent next-door-neighbour….
So cogitate a minute or three on that…. you may then see that my admitted speculation is not really “faith” in your sense of the meaning, but reasoned out, postulated, possible conclusion well within the margins of probability. (that’s a mouthful and a half for you to “cogitate” over…
You seem like an instinctive, reactive thinker like myself who goes directly to the (usually) correct end result without all the meandering. … But in my present case, not being a politician, I cannot answer for what might occur with some puffed up national leader who thinks his amour propre has been wounded.
Sooooo… what we all really know about it is….that we really don’t know, but it’s enjoyable to write about it as if we did know….. Deny it if you dare..
@ YJ Draiman:
xxx
Just one thing about “Britain issuing the Balfour Letter’….. They didn’t do it spontaneously and willingly. It was a bargain made by Chaim Weitzman, the REAL father of Modern Israel, who gave them FREE, the formula for making cheap explosives quickly and which helped immeseaurably to win the Great War. It was something to do with ethanol fermentation cheaply done. There’s mere to it of course but i don’t remember what it is, although I once knew. I’m not a chemist anyway.
@ Edgar G.:
Not really. All of this legalistic pussy footing around is about getting it around the liberals at home and abroad, isn’t it? If we could just throw them out, would it be necessary to care where they wind up? Did Kuwait, Lebanon or Jordan? Would we have to be any less violent? (And would their be a liberal revolt in the Israeli military?) Or are you saying that we wouldn’t have to contend with the Jordanian military, as well. Kind of a Jordanian Sisi who, however, doesn’t support the pals takeover of our land by legalistic means road maps and such? Sounds too good to be true. Why would they want to introduce all these even more extreme maniacs into their country? Look what happened last time they tried that? Would such good people last five minutes in power in the unlikely event they could take power? Or do you really think this could be engineered from abroad even by President Trump? Wow, that’s what I call faith!
The world does not recognize Jerusalem as the Jewish capital, because the world does not recognize the right of Jews to exist. Those liberal Jews in USA and Europe and elsewhere who pander to the non-Jews by endorsing views that deny or compromise the Jewish sovereignty over The Historical Land of Israel and hoping that they would be “acceptable” are deluding themselves, they live in fantasy world, not reality. It did not help them with Nazi Germany who exterminated over 6 million Jews, men, women and children; or in the past 2,500 years in the Diaspora, when the Jews were persecuted, tortured, murdered and discriminated and it will not help them today.
After WWI the Arabs/Muslims were allocated and received over 12 million sq. km. with a wealth of oil reserves and following in Napoleon intent in 1799 to reconstitute the Jewish National Home in its former historical territory. The British in 1917 issued the Balfour Declaration that emulated Napoleon’s intent and The victorious Supreme Allied Powers incorporated the Balfour Declaration having the force of International law. Thus, the Jewish people were allocated 120,000 sq. km. of their historical territory. Today they have only about 21,000 sq. km., but the Arabs/Muslims and the world nations begrudge even that small peace of our Jewish historical territory. To add insult to injury, they joined the U.N. in issuing a resolution (non-binding with no legal standing) that the Jewish historical territory including Jerusalem has no Jewish connection. Which is absurd, and it only exposes the UN, as a puppet of Israel’s enemies and not as an organization that its charter is to promote peace and harmony among nations.
The world nations stood idle and silent while The Arabs/Muslims terrorized, murdered and expelled over a million Jewish families with their children and confiscated all their assets, including personal property, businesses, homes and over 120,000 sq. km. of land. Real Estate which the Jewish people had owned for over 2,400 years (valued in the trillions of dollars); where were the world nations cries of protest and demand for justice and the return of Jewish Homes and Real Estate then and where are they now?
Most of the expelled Jewish families from Arab/Muslim countries were resettled in The Land of Israel, and today comprise over half the population. The European nations had better refrain from demanding that the Jewish people in Israel should give up their historical land to the Arabs/Muslims; since the European nations have taken over the Jewish assets, personal property (Gold, Silver, Artifacts, etc.), businesses, homes and Real Estate and many of those Jewish people and their descendants and heirs were also resettled in The Historical Land of Israel.
We the Jewish people returned to the occupied and desolate Land of Israel in the 1800’s and joined our Jewish brethren to re-blossom, revitalize and turn it into green pastures, with a new great economic infrastructure, industry and housing, after much toil and hard work and with the help infusion of capital and resources by our brethren in the Diaspora.
We, The Jewish People, are proud and thankful to have back our historic sovereign Jewish country with an Army that can defend itself properly and in many cases Jews around the world.
We the Jewish People will not surrender our land to nobody. We should be thankful to the almighty that we are in a similar position today as we were during the time of King David.
The world as whole needs Israel and The Jewish People, more than the Jewish people need the world.
History shows every nation or society that let the Jewish people thrive, prosper and flourish, also thrived and flourished.
When a nation or society harassed, terrorized, murdered and discriminated against the Jewish people in their country, the country declined and its power and economy diminished greatly, if not disappeared altogether.
Today’s time is not like the Spanish Inquisition or the Bolshevik era when Jews were persecuted and murdered or Nazi Germany when Jews tried to escape Nazi extermination Camps, they had nowhere to go for sanctuary. Even The Jewish Land of Israel aka Palestine allocated by The Supreme Allied Powers under international agreements to the Jews after WWI, was illegally blocked by the British, which caused many Jewish people to die.
Today the Jewish people have the sovereign State Israel, with its strong defense, advanced technology and Medical innovations that the whole world relies on.
May we be granted the honor we have in fact earned to live and see the rebuilding of The Jewish Temple in its previous holy site on Temple Mount also known as Mount Moriah.
YJ Draiman
@ Edgar G.:
You’re right. I didn’t mean to say that. It just came out that way. It wasn’t my main point, so I didn’t notice. Not that I would mind Israel having fought to take back Jewish land just to take it back. Quite the contrary. But Israel has never done things that way. and I have heard it used as a blood libel. (If it were up to me, these bastards would be nostalgic for their blood libels. I’d make the real thing so much worse for them.) Thank you for correcting me. I meant to say, “Didn’t Israel already have to fight two wars with Jordan which illegally occupied and ethnically cleansed Judea and Samaria of its Jews for 19 years, an occupation only two countries in the world even accepted as legal? Isn’t it an insult to the memory of all who fell, of all who were dispossessed, to the Jewish Nation, past, present and future, to turn around and give it right back to them?”
@ honeybee:
Please be specific. Which passages?
Sebastien Zorn Said:
xxx
Not so. Israel made a vitally needed pre-emptive strike and although they begged Jordan to stay out of it (in other words they would have been happy with the status quo of Jordan holding YESHA) Jordan listened to Nasser’s lies and attacked. You already know all this 100 times over so why belabour it.
Don’t forget that this is not a Jordanian plan, it is a plan of Russia and the US in co-operation, and I’m sure they will do it if they start it. They are not queasy about public opinion like Israel has had to be all it’s existence, and will get the job done. They’ll push the local Arabs over the River by probably giving them 2 weeks to prepare and then threaten to flatten everything standing.
I see no options for alternatives mentioned in this plan, (although since we know nothing about it, there may be) and that’s the damned good part of it. The Arabim locusts will HAVE to go right back from where they originally came. And it won’t be Israel that the world can condemn, (although naturally they will) assuming that the Russo.American action have put potential sanctions in place to guard their flanks against international interference. As long as any interference in not physical, then they couldn’t care less.
Let’s be realistic…America , that is an America with TEETH, meaning tiger teeth as she used to be, backed up by Russian systematic ignoring of the “rights” of others when neccessary, Real Politik in spades as the yankee expression goes….. can face anything in this world. No country, or group of countries is going to go up against The Americans and Russians combined. It still, of course remains to be seen how tightly bound together they will be in carrying out this plan….if it ever comes to fruition……
Let’s all pray that it will. That will leave both powers with a PERMANENT duty of keepting it that way, whic will give Israel a little relief, although due alertness will ALWAYS be neccessary in that part of the world, from generation to generation as the Hagadah says on a different matter.
Sebastien Zorn Said:
xxx
That’s the meaning of “repatriation”,and I’m sure you already knew.
honeybee Said:
😛 😛 😛 it’s like old homecoming week, the good old times.
yamit82 Said:
I think that circumstances always change, that it is impossible to maintain a status quo AND that expending energy towards that goal actually tends to result in erosion of the status quo in a negative direction… like a miser seeking to hold onto his money an it slowly dribbles away. Who could have imagined the current situation where the humiliated and vanquished pals could hold so much power and effect in the world… that israel keeps jumping and dancing in reaction to their tune. Israel should long ago have settled YS between the 67 war and now… it was a mistake to stop building settlements. Unless someone like trump stands up for israel it looks like israel will do nothing for itself. But I only see trump standing up for israel if Israel does it and the world reacts against Israel. That is how i see a changing paradigm… like this..
Israel creates a series of plans for new cities to settle west bank… the world reacts in horror and condemnation and trump says “whats the problem, didnt you guys all sign that the jews should settle the vacant lands of the mandate and that we should all encourage and facilitate them in that endeavor?”
what could they reply???? but but but………??????
Its as simple as the way Trump talks, the jews are right and the world are liars.
If Trump took that position the world would do nothing but make noise… and if they had sanctions after trump declared his position I could see him retaliating for Israel…. but all this only if Israel does it. I notice the world is quaking in front of him and only fools like the frogs and kraut paper tigers have the balls to keep insulting him…. I bet they pay for that with trump supporting their opposition.
BB wants to maintain a status quo as I have always told you because he has understandings with the gulf arabs and is trying to maintain the status quo for them, avoid a blowup. The reason that he never does anything to make wave with the pals is that the GCC wants their proxies to war Iran, syria and lebanon and Israel/pal problems is an obstruction to raising recruits for their main war. they have quid pro quos… Israel makes no waves to incite the pals, this helps abbas maintain status quo for GCC and GCC brokers the cease fires and has egypt cooperate with Israel. That is why I dont expect him to settle in YS, unless there is some situation where he gives them a big chunk of C for a city and the settlers get something in return.. like a small village just over the boundary that he can boast about.
yamit82 Said:
HUH????? This looks like exactly the scenario you are hoping for where Israel can most likely have a war and push them all out to iraq… you gotta make up your mind.
Now the problem is that Haniyeh is back and they will change the hamas charter from killing jews to killing zionists so that the euros can demand more from the Jews they stalk. All this is a result of trying to stop the flow of life… events flow in directions, its best to choose a direction even if you dont have a specific plan. Luckily right now the unverse created directions and opportunities with arab spring, euro spring and trump… but standing idly by and not riding waves will result in thing being less at the end. Israel had a chance to wipe out hezbullah in lebanon while they were in syria, the GCC would have supported that… but now it is much more dangerous and the opportunity for that is much harder due to the russian presence. Things change, opportunities are lost, even an easy wipe out of the pals wont always remain on the burner… things change… opportunities disappear…. you can bank on that.
@ yamit82: Israel should stop humoring Jordan and let Jews pray on the Temple Mount. Israel should destroy Hamas pre-emptively. Wipe it off the face of the map. Shoot and bomb first. Ask questions not at all. In Gaza, Jordan or wherever. Be prepared to exterminate the entire population in a day, if need be. They’re all just “collateral damage” waiting to happen, anyway. Put the “Jordanians” on notice. Only reason not to nuke Iran off the map now is that it’s too far away. Screw this “purity of arms” crap. We should be more culturally sensitive. Teach our troops to appreciate the “smell of napalm in the morning”. Ha Ha.
“Military power comparison results for Israel vs. Jordan.”
http://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-comparison-detail.asp?form=form&country1=Israel&country2=Jordan&Submit=Compare+Countries
Plus, this is the only war Jordan ever won
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September
@ Sebastien Zorn:
Who would you prefer: Current regime in Jordan or a Hamas led Government in control of the Jordan Army aligned with Iran???
@ Nancy B:
The current regime is definitely an enemy.
http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2010/07/17/jordanian-queen-writes-kids-book-teaching-tolerance-but-will-not-allow-hebrew-translation/
“Jordan Threatens to Revoke Peace Treaty Over Temple Mount
Move follows majority of Jordanian MPs vote to expel Israel’s ambassador as ‘retaliation’ for Knesset discussing religious freedom on Mount.”
26/02/14 ”
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/177892
“Jordan: Israeli violations on Temple Mount threaten global religious war September 30, 2015”
http://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/jordan-israeli-violations-on-temple-mount-threaten-global-religious-war/
But, wouldn’t a sane government be unpopular there?
“On Thursday, March 13, 1997, 80 seventh and eighth grade schoolgirls from the Feurst School in Beit Shemesh, west of Jerusalem, were on a field trip to the Jordan Valley and the Golan Heights. Part of the trip was to Naharayim, visiting the “Island of Peace”, a joint Israeli-Jordanian tourist resort under Jordanian rule.[3][4]
‘During the afternoon, the class reached the “Island of Peace” site, the girls got off the bus. As the girls were heading towards the observatory a Jordanian soldier stationed at the site, opened fire on the group with an M16 rifle after they reportedly whistled and clapped while he was praying. The perpetrator killed seven schoolgirls and wounded five others and a teacher before his rifle jammed and the Jordanian soldiers seized him.[3]
Fatalities[edit]
Sivan Fathi, 13, of Tzelafon[5]
Karen Cohen, 14, of Beit Shemesh[6]
Ya’ala Me’iri, 13, of Beit Shemesh[7]
Shiri Badayev, 14, of Beit Shemesh[8]
Natali Alkalai, 13, of Beit Shemesh[9]
Adi Malka, 13, of Beit Shemesh[10]
Nirit Cohen, 13, of Beit Shemesh[11]
…
“IJordan’s justice minister’s call for Daqamseh’s release…Jordanian parliament calls for Daqamseh’s release…
n April 2013, 110 of 120 Jordanian Members of Parliament signed a petition calling for the release of Daqamseh…”
“The perpetrator
The perpetrator was Jordanian Army Corporal Ahmed Daqamseh, who stated that he attacked because he was insulted and angered that the girls were whistling and clapping while he was praying.[1][12]
Speaking on Al Jazeera in May 2001, Daqamseh’s mother said, “I am proud of my son, and I hold my head high. My son did a heroic deed and has pleased Allah and his own conscience. My son lifts my head and the head of the entire Arab and Islamic nation. I am proud of any Muslim who does what Ahmad did. I hope that I am not saying something wrong. When my son went to prison, they asked him: ‘Ahmad, do you regret it?’ He answered: ‘I have no regrets.’ He treated everyone to coffee, honored all the other prisoners, and said: The only thing that I am angry about is the gun, which did not work properly. Otherwise I would have killed all of the passengers on the bus.”[13]”
Now, Terje, if you are still out there, these are actual Nazis. This is what it means. Unlike in the West, it is not a fringe.
“Island of Peace.” And they are still planning these joint ventures to benefit these Muslim savages who would starve to death if they had to feed themselves. Why not let them starve?
@ yamit82:
Nice cartoon about the Trump era. Here’s one by Thomas Nast (originally about Boss Tweed) from the 1870’s that fits the Obama era just as nicely. Just change New York and New Jersey to Judea and Samaria. In fact, it will be timely that way, in one form or another for quite some time.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-4w_eFtk3KJU/TtWePACuQPI/AAAAAAAAAwg/zejWLTrhyBM/s1600/Tweed+++Nast++Under+The+Thumb+-+twas+him+-+smaller.jpg
honeybee Said:
Regime change mandatory in Jordan. The current monarch is complicit with Abbas and incites continuously. Mudar Zahran and his group are highly capable and are not anti-Semites. Mudar needs someone to facilitate a conversation with David Friedman.
@ honeybee:
Now or before??
Muslim Brotherhood Infiltrated All Of Our National Security Agencies
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqkZBWd6-nI&feature=share
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqkZBWd6-nI&feature=share
yamit82 Said:
There’s the yamit2 I know and adore!!!!!!!!!!!!! I thought you hit your head or something.
yamit82 Said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWo_3CIcTBQ
German Muslim Students Protest Holocaust Remembrance – “F*ck Israel” Scrolled on Chalkboard
I love the smell of Napalmed burning Muslim bodies in the Morning
All that you and I wish for will come about but I can’t say exactly how or when I ain’t no prophet but everything set forth in the Torah has come to pass before our eyes so I have faith in eventual outcomes. Mayan Clock seems to be in accelerated mode.
@ yamit82:
OMG that is the most positive and up beat I have ever heard you.
@ bernard ross:
@ Ted Belman:
Nikki Haley Tells United Nations: “For Those Who Don’t Have Our Backs… WE’RE TAKING NAMES” (Video)
bernard ross Said:
The only realistic scenario I see Israel claiming and annexing Y&S is thru war… With the Palis difficult as long as they are not considered a sovereign nation with territorial recognized borders we are considered illegal occupiers in the eyes of the goyim and many, too many Jews.
http://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Our-World-Israels-moment-of-decision-479737bernard ross Said:
Ben Gurion did not want to capture Jerusalem in 1948 gave it up willingly but in 1967 we got it back relatively with ease along with all of Y&S. Now remember the then Government of Israel never wanted those territories or Jerusalem it was forced on us and even though every government since has been trying to divest from them it’s proven to be very difficult if not impossible. The reality of 1967 is not the same as it is today. Think about the rise of the Jewish State from the ashes and dung heap of history; the return of the people scattered and ground into the dust; the reemergence of a language, consigned to the libraries and antiquities of the Vatican and the House of Study; the stranger-than-fiction, miraculous victories over overwhelming enemies thirsting for bloody destruction and holocaust – I believe one way or another we will achieve our goals and destiny…history is on our side…. That does not mean to do nothing but not to be overly discouraged if history is delayed like Greek theater we already know the end it the getting there we are now concerned with.bernard ross Said:
\\
My question more rhetorical. Of course they will go nuts in any case and of course we should ignore them to the extent possible but war solves all such problems and speculation so waiting for the right moment and circumstances could be the best course if we protect status quo… We can always crush the Palis even by economic means in the meantime they are not much of a threat or problem we are prospering they buy our produce the world finances them and we get most of that funding and if there is a political will we can keep the contained but that’s in our control. I worry more from existential threats Iran eventually Egypt and Pakistan supported by Russia and China. Not-liking Russian Naval and airbases a few miles from our borders. I don’t expect BB to change his yellow stripes and no-one on our political horizon with a chance to do what we like so the devil we know seems to be only option for now.
All that you and I wish for will come about but I can’t say exactly how or when I ain’t no prophet but everything set forth in the Torah has come to pass before our eyes so I have faith in eventual outcomes. Mayan Clock seems to be in accelerated mode. 🙂
I will wait til I have published the article before answering your questions.
Various opposition groups have come together and endorsed the idea. They are all Palestinians. They realize that their best shot of getting rid of the King and having their own country is if they give Israel what it wants.
For the last 6 years or so they have come out in support of Israel at great risk to themselves. Zahran has turned down much money to drop his opposition. As a result he is forced to live in exile. So I believe his bona fides.
Sebastien Zorn Said:
Right on Cowboy !!!!!!!!!! ” Power comes from the barrel of a gun”. Mao Tse Sung
@ yamit82:
In my studies of Ancient Egypt, I learned of the Pharaohs great desire to not engage with tribes in what is Lebanon. They were considered a uncivilized, fierce and a wild people. As were , frankly, most of the Semitic peoples. That includes us. I think we were a better people then, instead of the pleadings at the UN. “Please may we have permission to live”.
I believe it was Caroline Glick who pointed out a long time ago that all of the “peace” agreements were negotiated while settlement was under way. Settlement was never an issue when it was aggressively pursued. I think you will find that an aggressive policy will make the other side sue for peace.
yamit82 Said:
Of which reactors do you speak? Human or Atomic?
yamit82 Said:
Shirley never jests. !!!!!!!!!!!!
yamit82 Said:
so, is your plan to leave the status quo until an opportunity is presented by an enemy state attacking Israel first?
yamit82 Said:
I am confused, if it is your goal or dream to aquire the promised land in its entirety then why would you be afraid to pressure the GOI and BB into settling the vacant lands of C outside the major block ghetto boundaries?
yamit82 Said:
shirley, the nile to euphrates would bring a lot more opposition than jews in vacant lands in C as agreed in international law? In fact, rather than just give C away you might as well settle it and try to win in the kangaroo courts of the ICC. It would be a bet to nothing…dn under trump the under the table pressures from the US would be pro israel and none of those groups you mention would apply sanctions if israel subjected to the ICC… better than nothing as you propose… or, I am not sure what you propose… do you or dont you want to settle Jews in YS vacant lands outside the major blocks… if not now then when?
Its nice to talk of the nile and euphrates unless it distracts from the immediate task of getting jews settled a few kilometers away in YS
mrg3105 Said:
The Bible promises the nation of Israel a huge country from Nile to Euphrates. Such country was unsustainable and utterly unnecessary for Jews in antiquity. “From Nile” includes Sinai, but even Egypt didn’t govern the Sinai in the times of old except for a narrow strip. The Promised Land was a technical impossibility and a burden to maintain. The land wasn’t prized, but consisted of deserts and steppes. If seducing Hebrews with a promise, a takeover of Egypt would be much more attractive.
Only in the late twentieth century did we understand the rationale behind the Promised Land. Israel critically needs the Sinai for depth of defense against Islamist Egypt. If not for Sinai and the Negev, the initial thrust of the Yom Kippur war would have drowned the Jews in the sea. Now that Egypt acquires missiles and cutting-edge aircraft, the depth of defense the Sinai accords to the Jewish state becomes all the more important.
The Promised Land includes a Frankenstein state of Lebanon. Jews so far failed to realize the commandment and conquer that land, driving the ever-fighting Lebanese tribes away to Syria – and the Lebanese tribes prove a perpetual threat for Jewish Galilee.
Israel also needs a huge territory to disperse her population. The hi-rise buildings in Israeli cities will become a death trap in a major earthquake – and Israel is located on the two lines of tectonic activity. Jews must live in light, single-story houses. Dispersing the population is also the best way to avoid or mitigate Islamic nuclear strike. Pakistan, besieged by the Islamists, has an unknown number of nuclear bombs, probably more than fifty. Saudi Arabia likely hoards some of the Pakistani nukes in return for financing its nuclear program. Iran, Egypt, Libya, Algeria, and Morocco have the critical know-how in nuclear technologies, and North Korea stands ready to help them. There is absolute certainty that Islamic terrorists will lay their hands on nuclear weapons fairly soon. Crude nukes are not that apocalyptic: a primitive bomb detonated at the ground level in Tel Aviv would kill something like 10,000 Jews – a sorrowful but statistically insignificant number. Looking at Nagasaki, the long-term effects of nuclear bombing are also tolerable. So instead of panicking, Jews should disperse into a single-storey society interconnected by the latest communication networks rather than Tel Aviv’s promenades. And that why we need the Promised Land in its entirety.
@ Bear Klein:
Yes, e.g., The 1997 Island of Peace Massacre
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Island_of_Peace_massacre
Ted Belman Said:
Shirley you jest???
@ Ted Belman:
I know your longtime sentiments re: this group but I still believe it to be BS the radicals will never allow them into power and if they have such popular support inside Jordan where is the proof? That said is it good for Israel to have an enemy State with a small but fairly modern army on our Eastern border? As sovereign could they not allow outside powers like Russia China even Iran to gain footholds and bases on their territory? Modern missiles and rockets from inside Jordanian territory can reach any part of Israel including reactors in Dimona but certainly BG airport and coastal population centers. Jordan may not love us but it keeps our Eastern border quiet. That said an attack against us by a sovereign state could push us to conquer all of Jordan driving the Palis into Iraq thus gaining the borders described in the Torah from the Nile to the Euphrates. I love speculating…. Haaaa
Anyone who thinks Jordan would be a good option for anything more than citizenship of Arabs west of the River Jordan is badly mistaken.
There should be no guns of any military west of the River Jordan aside from the IDF.
Jordanians are not to be trusted. There has beeen more than one case of a Jordanian solider shooting an Israeli. We fought a couple of wars with them.
If West Bank Arabs want to take citizenship or better yet move to Jordan that is great. That is the only viable Jordan option.
Does this plan entail dismantling and disarming the PA? Who will do it? Does it entail population transfer into Jordan? How will this be accomplished? Will it be voluntary? Incentives to go West might work. But to Jordan? If no, Who will do it? If not, doesn’t this create the danger of the PLO taking over as listed in their 1974 phased plan?
Will the Israeli public, forget about the international community, tolerate a mass evacuation of Arabs, i.e., forced population transfer? Didn’t Israel fight a war with Jordan over their illegal occupation? Wasn’t it so unmanageable that Jordan volutarily relinquished it? Was it just because of the king? If the opposition is unpopular, how can it govern? Or take power for that matter? Isn’t it just kicking the can down the road to ask the enemy to govern land that rightfully belongs to Israel?
Isn’t Jordan really part of Israel? Wasn’t the original Hashemite agreement with a Saudi monarch not merely ethnically but actually over there? Isn’t Saudi Arabia the only Arab homeland?
It seems to me the only solution is to have civil law in area C, without conferring citizenship on the Arabs, even Arabs who own land or property. It’s not necessary to be a citizen or even a resident to own property or have one’s legal rights protected . Even visitors to a country are governed by the same rule of law. The rule of law will no less equally apply to everyone there, including the arabs who are stateless or have citizenship in another country.
Why should the Jewish majority, who are already citizens, live under martial law? As for the rest, the PA must be dismantled and replaced with Israeli military rule. This will not happen without armed conflict. None of these scenarios will. (The status quo involves ongong armed conflict against Jewish civilians and is therefore unacceptable.) The rest can be decided later.
@ Ted Belman:
Ted, it isn’t a perfect solution to anything!
The land on th eeastern side of Jordan is no less Israel than that on th ewestern bank. It is in fact the protions of the tribes of Ruben, Gad and half the tirbe of Menashe.
In any case, anyone who mentions ‘Palestinians’ in their articles is given more acknowledgement to the problem – there are not such people. Getting over denial is the first phase in any mental disorder, and in Israel the disorder is called denial of UN failure to remove Arabs who had no right to be in Israel in 1947. In acknowldeging ‘Palestinians’, these people are reinfocing the belief that The Mandate of Palestine STILL EXISTS!
Jordan is majority Muslim Palestinians. They hate Israel. The King hates Israel or does a great job of acting like he does to be popular in his country.
The opposition Ted is it more than Mudar? If yes how many 1000s are they? Do they have an army in waiting nearby or Army officiers ready to ride to Jordanian overthrow of the King and bring in democracy?
I know you like Mudar but his he a British/Palestinian/Jordanian Don Quitoe?
@ Ted Belman:
What does “repatriate” mean in practice?
@ Ted Belman:
xxx
Let’s hope that it is not too wonderful to be true. It would be a perfect solution to the running sore. But how would it affect the terroristic inclinations of the next 2 generations of local Arabs. They would still, even though in Jordan, need to be stamped on with a firm, large boot, and the endemic Jew hatred will not be abated, although if it’s kept firmly over the Jordan then Israel can contain it. It’s not as if we’re not used to it.
Although if the Opposition really want to have good, sincere Israeli relations and backed and supported by the US, it could work. Against both Jordan’s government and the US-and allies- the Arab terrorists would have a very slim time, an possibly deter their natural inclinations. And, of course Israel would be there…
I would think that much depends on whether taking in the Local YESHA Arabs would be a destabling (destabilizing) influence sufficient to cause a sort of Vietnam redivivus, the “running sore” I mentioned above….
I really look forward to reading your essay.
@ Edgar G.:
I agree. the King is a stumbling block and the people hate us.
But there is a new developement which I have written on and will publish on Sunday on American Thinker and Israpundit and probably other sites as well.
This development has to do with the desire of the Jordanian Opposition Coalition to replace the king with the support of the US. Fundamental to their plan is that they want to repatriate all Palestinians including refugees so that Israel is free to annex Gaza and the West Bank. The leaders of the opposition have decided that they want good relations with Israel just as King Faisal wanted in his agreement with Weizmann in 1919.
I will be pushing this plan with the Trump team.
xxx
It seems to me that Jordan hates Israel as much, or almost as much as the Local Arabs do. Consider,….no Jews are allowed to live in Jordan, no Jordan Arab is allowed to sell land to a Jew, the penalty being death…Vicious Anti-Semitic propaganda being routine there etc.etc . How different is the Little Kingling and his tottering realm from the average Arab mess…. Only on the surface, I believe.
Jordan in in the middle stages of dissolution rather than being a stabilising influence on the region. With 80% “Palestinian” Arabs, the 20% is looked on as interlopers from the Hejaz, not local at all but foreigners who were placed there by the British. In fact it was Churchill who did the vile deed.