T. Belman. This article was written just a month after Pres Trump was inaugurated. Six months later I hosted a conference at the Begin Center in Jerusalem called The Jordan Option. All aspects of this option were discussed. The Jordan Opposition Coalition was represented by its founder Dr Mudar Zahran and Abed Amaala, the head of a million man Bedouin clan in Jordan. Close attention to the ideas presented, was paid by the PMO in Jerusalem and the Trump team in DC.
These ideas were further developed in my article, Memo to Kushner, published in Feb 2019. Dr. Mudar Zahran addressed members of the EU Parliament (video) and debated at the Oxford Union delivering a pro-Israel message. Be sure to watch both.
I like to believe that it was our initiative and our ideas that lead to the Abraham Accords and their progeny of peace deals yet to be born. Dr Mudar Zahran strongly believes in cooperation, not confrontation, just as King Feisal proposed and the Abraham Accords formalized. Jordan may yet become the Palestinian State under his leadership.
With a new U.S. president, new ideas are emerging on how to resolve the Israel-Palestine debacle. One of the most promising comes from Jordanian Opposition Council who favor a new Palestinian state — in Jordan.
By Ted Belman, (First published in slightly different form on Apr 1/17)
The GOP unanimously approved a pro-Israel platform at their convention in July 2016 which stipulated:
“The U.S. seeks to assist in the establishment of comprehensive and lasting peace in the Middle East, to be negotiated among those living in the region,”
David Friedman and Jason Greenblatt, representing Donald Trump, participated in the drafting and were in complete agreement with the final text.
Gone was any reference to the Palestinian people or to a two-state solution. In addition, the platform included the words “We reject the false notion that Israel is an occupier.” If not an “occupier,” then presumably Israel is a sovereign.
Accordingly, the search is on for an alternate solution. Such a solution could take inspiration from the short-lived Feisal/Weizmann Agreement of 1919. The essence of this agreement was that Palestine as it then was, was to be divided into two states, one for the Arabs and one for the Jews. Chaim Weizmann on behalf of the Jews agreed to help develop the Arab state and King Feisal agreed to welcome Jewish settlement in the Jewish state and favored friendly cooperative relations.
Although the British didn’t breathe life into this agreement, they did separate Trans-Jordan from Palestine in 1922 with the Jordan River being the boundary between them. Trans-Jordan (Jordan) thus got 78% of the lands promised to the Jews. The remaining 22% consisting of the land between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean was to be the Jewish state. This was enshrined in the Palestine Mandate signed by the League of Nations in 1922.
On June 30, 1922, a joint resolution of both Houses of Congress of the United States unanimously endorsed the “Mandate for Palestine,” confirming the irrevocable right of Jews to settle in Palestine—anywhere between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea.
With respect to the Arabs living in Jewish Palestine, the Congressional Record contained the following:
“(2) That if they will not consent to Jewish government and domination, they shall be required to sell their lands at a just valuation and retire into the Arab territory which has been assigned to them by the League of Nations in the general reconstruction of the countries of the east.
“(3) That if they will not consent to Jewish government and domination, under conditions of right and justice, or to sell their lands at a just valuation and to retire into their own countries, they shall be driven from Palestine by force.”
The US was not a member of the League of Nations at this time. In order to be able to protect American interests in Palestine, she entered into the 1924 Anglo-American Convention in which the U.S. bound itself to the terms of the Mandate. This of course meant the recognition of Jewish right to close settlement of Palestine and that all of Palestine was to be the Jewish homeland.
Since then, there were a number of unsuccessful attempts, contrary to the terms of the Mandate, to further divide Jewish Palestine into two states. UN General Assembly Resolution 181, passed in 1947, recommended partition, but was rejected by the Arabs. The Jews on the other hand took advantage of it and declared their independence in 1948. Israel owes its independence to that declaration and not to Resolution 181, which was only a recommendation, precipitating the move.
Nothing has happened of any legal consequence since, to cancel the right of the Jews to settle and be sovereign over all the land to the Jordan River.
To date, Israel has been reluctant to claim sovereignty over these lands as the Arabs living there would then demand citizenship resulting in a binational state. This is unacceptable to most Israelis. They also reject the two-state solution.
So what is the alternative?
Consider for a moment, that if Jordan agrees to grant citizenship to all Palestinians, as their law currently provides, and invites the return of all of them to live and work in Jordan, the conflict would soon be ended. While King Abdullah isn’t about to do so, the Jordan Opposition Coalition (JOC) would. This coalition represents all opposition groups in Jordan that back a secular state. The JOC since its creation six years ago has supported good relations with Israel. It does not include groups that support terrorism. This alliance has agreed to work together in order to form the government of Jordan should King Abdullah abdicate. Although at least 75% of Jordanians are Palestinians, the King has disenfranchised them to a great extent in favor of the ethnic Hashemites and Bedouins.
The JOC has produced a detailed plan, Operation “Jordan is Palestine,” which clearly identifies their goals and the operational steps needed to implement their plan. Copies are available upon request.
All that is necessary for this to come to pass is for the U.S. to instruct the king, who currently spends most of his time outside Jordan, to not return home. Then it would arrange for the Jordanian army, which it controls, to support the next popular Palestinian uprising, and to designate who among them would form the interim government.
The JOC, puts it this way:
“This plan seeks to execute a feasible two-state solution where Jordan is the natural homeland for all Palestinians, and Israel becomes sovereign over all soil west to the River Jordan. This could only happen if the corrupt, terror-supporting and double-speaking Hashemite royal family leaves Jordan. The Palestinians often revolt against the regime but the king’s police force puts them down. The American media ignore this solution to the unrest in Jordan.
“What is needed is for the U.S. to influence the Jordanian army and security agency to stand with the revolution the next time it breaks out. The security agencies and army are already securing the country without any influence from the king who is mostly abroad. Under these conditions, the king would not return. Once that happens an interim government of secular Palestinians who want peace with Israel could be appointed.
“Once the interim government is installed, it will strengthen the economy by stopping theft of government money and ending corruption. It will fully enfranchise the Palestinians. All Palestinians around the world would be welcomed to return to Jordan pursuant the current Jordanian citizenship act, which already recognizes all Palestinians as citizens of Jordan. Many Palestinians will emigrate to Jordan in part because many have family members and friends living in Jordan. Work opportunities as well as a rewarding benefits/welfare system will be made available to them by the new interim government as further inducement. “
Israel, with many international partners, including the U.S., could finance the building of a new Jordanian city of 1 million people. This would greatly stimulate the Jordanian economy and would provide work for the returning Palestinians. The new homes could be made available to the returnees and locals at subsidized prices further incentivizing people to return. The ending of King Abdullah’s discrimination against Palestinians living in Jordan, would also contribute to making Jordan a desired emigration destination.
Michael Ross, a Republican, wrote after the election of Donald Trump, “Trump Must Speak to Mudar Zahran“ because Zahran offers the alternate solution that Pres Trump is looking for.
As part of this solution, all Palestinian refugees enrolled with UN Relief And Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East could be repatriated to Jordan and given citizenship. Thus UNRWA could be wound up and the current UNRWA funding could be transferred to Jordan to assist in the resettlement.
According to Moshe Feiglin, the head of the Zehut Party in Israel, the Oslo Accords have cost Israel over 1 trillion shekels since they were signed. In addition, Israel has borne the cost of three military campaigns in Gaza. Finally, Israel supplies to the Palestinians their energy, water and sewage treatment for free or at greatly subsidized prices.
Last summer, Moshe Feiglin proposed a Solution in which Israel extends Israeli law from the Mediterranean to the Jordan:
“We will give the Arab population in those territories three options: The first is voluntary emigration with the aid of a generous emigration grant. The second is permanent residency, similar to the “Green Card” status in the US – not like what is currently the practice in East Jerusalem. This status will be offered to those Arabs who publicly declare their loyalty to the State of Israel as the state of the Jewish Nation. We will safeguard their human rights and will not do anything like we did to ourselves in Gush Katif. The third option will be reserved for relatively few Arabs, and only in accordance with Israeli interests. Those who tie their fate to the fate of the Jewish Nation, like the Druze, can enter a long-term process of attaining citizenship.”
Recently, Feiglin’s Party, Zehut, published The Diplomatic Plan.
Martin Sherman has published his plan which he calls the “Humanitarian Solution” as opposed to a strictly political solution. He summarized all his writings in support of such a plan and published them here.
With an estimated $300,000 per family grant, both he and Feiglin have estimated that incentivized compensated emigration will cost Israel over $200 billion USD but both argue it is feasible and worth doing.
The repatriation of Palestinians to Jordan, as proposed by JOC, would greatly facilitate the Palestinian emigration and greatly reduce the grants needed to incentivize it. UNRWA and the Palestinian Authority would both be wound up.
1.75 million Palestinians live in Judea and Samaria (West Bank). They should be induced to emigrate to Jordan. The same goes for all Palestinian refugees living in Lebanon, Syria and elsewhere.
Considering the subsidies that the West provides to UNRWA, Gaza and the PA, this would be a bargain. Given that JOC has tied its fate to Israel, Israel would be happy to contribute to such a solution as the present conflict costs her hundreds of millions of dollars annually.
Currently the US gives $370 million to UNRWA, $300 million to the Palestinian Authority (PA) and $1.3 Billion to Jordan annually. The EU also gives money to the PA and to Jordan. These monies could be redirected to Jordan to kick start this repatriation. Others, including Israel could contribute. In time, the US and EU subsidies could be phased out.
It really is that simple. There is much more that can be said in support of it.
Prof. Hillel Frisch, a senior research associate at the Begin-Sadat Center for Strategic Studies and Yitzhak Sokoloff, a fellow of the Ingeborg Rennert Center for Jerusalem Studies at Bar-Ilan University recently wrote Trump and the Jordanian Option.
“The inauguration of an American administration uncommitted to the principle of an independent Palestinian state provides Israel with the opportunity to advocate a long-term strategic vision of building up a prosperous Jordan that could provide an alternative to the model of a two-state solution based on the Palestinian Authority.”
They are wrong to suggest that this can be done with King Abdullah. I believe, as does the JOC, that the king is part of the problem and must be replaced by Palestinians.
Gideon Saar, a touted future Prime Minister of Israel, in his recent article, Goodbye Two-State Solution, wrote:
“A Jordanian-Palestinian federative solution would offer the Palestinians space in addition to their autonomy. We could also consider adopting a joint Israeli-Jordanian-Palestinian economic framework. And there are many other ideas that could be constructed as a result of quiet, serious work with the backing of a supportive US administration.”
He is right but the ultimate alternate solution is the one put forward by the JOC.
If anyone wants more information or can help this solution get traction, please write me (tbelman3@gmail.com).
NOTE:
After publishing this article, I heard from a reader who had done considerable work on a plan of his own similar to the Jordan Option described above. I spent many hours with him discussing his research. We also met with a few movers and shakers in Israel.
Whereas I merely suggested the possibility of building a new Jordanian city to house one million people, he went further and researched a location for such a city and researched the cost of housing in Jordan.
According to his research, an 800 sq ft apartment in Jordan costs $40,000. Thus if 1.5 million Palestinians in the West Bank, Jerusalem and the camps could be induced to move to Jordan, 300,000 homes (5 people per family) would be needed costing $12 billion; a far cry from the $200 Billion needed to induce emigration according to Feiglin and Sherman. These homes can be given to the Palestinians, free of charge.
Based on the enormous benefit caused by the plan to the Jordanian economy Abdullah can be convinced to invite all Palestinians to return to Jordan just as the JOC plans to do if they get into power. Most people believe that Abdullah would never do it. But due to the poor Jordanian economy he could be forced to do it
Prof Hillel Frisch, BESA, agrees. He recently wrote, Becoming Part of Jordan and Egypt: A Palestinian Economic Imperative which included this summary:
EXECUTIVE SUMMARY: Reintegrating into the Jordanian state is an economic imperative for the Arab inhabitants of the Palestinian Authority. Only by once again becoming citizens of Jordan will they be able to challenge the economic stone wall imposed by domestic Jordanian economic lobby groups barring West Bank exports. A two-state solution would lead, not to an economy of peace, but to an economy of violence as lobby groups in both Israel and Jordan shut out the Palestinian state’s exports. The Palestinian state would inevitably react by threatening and committing violence to extract the international aid to which the PA has become accustomed.
This reader also makes the novel suggestion that Israel can offer a water incentive to Jordan tied to the number of immigrants it absorbs. This would increase the water supply to Jordan and lower the cost per litre. More on this later.
When presenting this plan to others, many mention that US Congressmen love King Abdulla. That may be so but they are ill informed. Recently Edy Cohen of BESA wrote Sorry but Jordan is not a friend?
Gaza and Egypt
Independent of this proposal or perhaps in tandem with it the same opportunity exists for helping all Gazans to emigrate to Egypt. There are approximately 1.5 million Gazans living in Gaza and the average family size is 6. Thus 250,000 apartments are required.
An 800 sq. ft. apartment in the new cities adjacent to Cairo that would accommodate 15 million people, costs about $16,000 USD: i.e, half the Jordan cost. This adds up to $4 billion USD.
Thus the Gazans would need only 10% of those homes. A 10 year plan would mean that 150,000 Gazans would emigrate there every year. This represents just 0.16% of the population of Egypt.1.5 million Gazans represent only 1.6% of the Egyptian population.
Other incentives might be pensions and welfare payments financed by the international community.
Considering how much it costs the EU and the US to support the current wave of migrants to their shores, this could well be a model for them to consider, i.e., a “Marshall Plan” for the Middle East as a means to get the migrants to stay where they are.
The obvious question is why would al Sisi agree to this, given how much trouble he is now having with Hamas that rules Gaza and is perceived as a threat to Egypt along with ISIS.
The obvious answer is that al Sisi needs help to meet its financial obligations and its security threats emanating from the Sinai and from Libya. The international community could provide that help.
Given that Saudi Arabia and other gulf states have started an initiative at Pres Trump’s urging, to stop the flow of funds to terrorists. They have severed relations with Qatar one of the biggest funders of terror demanding that it cease and desist. Specifically, they have demanded that Qatar stop funding Hamas.
Thus if Hamas is starved for money they will be less of a threat to Egypt too.
The reader above mentioned, is currently preparing a report in support of his Plan. It is 25 pages long and when completed in a few weeks will approach 35 pages. This Plan will make the case for why this is in the best interest of the US too.
@ Sebastien Zorn:
There was very little or no attacks from Sinai. Sadat and Mubarak gripped Egypt with a closed fist and there was silence and peace in that area for many years. It really only began to heat up when the supposed “Refugees” fought their way up through several countries where they could have stayed, to Israel which basically had nothing more than a wire fence along thr demarcation line. It was then that Egypt approached Israel asking to be allowed to deploy substabtial troops in the demilitarized Sinai, an agreement which had been faithfully kept by Egypt for many years.
So I think you are being a bit anachronistic here. Re Sadat and his “tears” you are grasping at an urban legend of the “piece of paper…. Sadat, was a Nazi supporter like nrearly all Arabs during the War. Just like the Arabs were Ottoman supporters in WW1.
As the tide turned, so did their “support” A person’s inner thoughts can’t be monitored. and that picture of Sadat with Hitler, or Himmler in Berlin has been worn out years ago. He was murdered because he made peace with Israel, a peace which he was taking great pains to make stick, and stick it did.
Begin slipped up with Yamit. YOu do not recall, or were not old enough to realise the giddy, heady, rarified atmospheric clouds in which Israel lived in those days. Yamit began as a political bluff, showing Sinai ownership it never was intended to keep permanently, ,and later became PR serious to the extent that Begin began to say that he was going to retire to live in that town etc. all BUMF, that ran away with itself.
It was a HUGE, momentous achievement to make peace with Egypt, cold as it is because of the, fierce animosity emanating from there, and that Egypt was the Major and Main enemy without which, there could be never be any future encompassing war against Israel. And sll the borders have been very quiet since that date, since Sadat made his historic trip to Jerusalem…
@ Sebastien Zorn: Criminal investigations and at times prosecutions of leading politicians have been the enforcement technique of Israel’s leftist “deep state.”And a triad of the Courts, the public prosecutors office, other government lawyers, and both the regular and counterterrorist police (Shabak) are the leftist deep-staters enforcement arms. Not law enforcement, but political enforcement. For example Prime Minister Netanyahu has been subjected to almost continuous police investigations since he first became Prime Minister in 1996. One such investigation is ongoing now. His wife has also been constantly investigated and humiliated with investigators’ leaks to the press. Defense Minister Avigdor Leiberman was subjected to 20 years of investigation. He was finally brought to trial on a relatively minor charge, and acquitted. Not so miraculously, both have been transformed from hawks to doves. The same transformation has happened to numerous other Israeli politicians who have been subjected to continuous investigations. Ariel Sharon, Ehud Olmert,and Tsachi Hanegbi,were all transformed from hawks to doves by repeated criminal investigations. A form of blackmail that should be curtailed by new laws to forbid politically motivated criminal investigations.
@ Bear Klein:
Just had an idea of how a blow against political corruption could be struck in the U.S. How about a law banning public officials from receiving money for political speeches or for any unspecified service such as might be labeled, “consultant” while in office or for a period of years after leaving office.
@ Sebastien Zorn:
Yes Non Likud politicians have been investigated, including Herzog. The Shas idiot Deri spent time in prison. So have many others been investigated. It is only sporting to try and nail political crooks.
There was book published that Sharon actually left Gaza to get out from the from the heat of the leftist media. His one son I believe went to jail for the corruption schemes.
Most of the Israeli politicians have not been rich enough to be independent when they run for office. How likely are they to be bribed?
That is one thing I like about Bennett he has what is called “FU” money so he can leave politics anytime and not worry about his lifestyle. Same with Barkat the mayor of Jerusalem. Same with Shaked who was Bennett’s number 2 in his successful business.
@ Adam Dalgliesh:
I agree. Case in point:
“15:12
Interrogation of Minister Katz completed
Thursday, July 06, 2017
A short time ago the Lahav 433 unit completed the interrogation of Minister Haim Katz, which began in the early morning hours.
The interrogation is being conducted by the economics division of the State Prosecution and is being supervised by the State Prosecutor with the approval of the Attorney-General.”
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/AllFlashes.aspx
“Haim Katz … currently serves as a member of the Knesset for Likud and as Minister of Welfare and Social Services…”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haim_Katz
Question: Have any non-Likud (including ex-Likudniks like Olmert) politicians been investigated?
@ Ted Belman: Thanks, Ted! I’ll be working on it.
@ Adam Dalgliesh:
You write it, I’ll publish it.
My last post gave an inadequate statement of my position. I don’t think that a diplomatic solution to Israel’s war with the Arab-Islamic nations is possible now, and perhaps it will never be. But I do think that an Israeli military-political victory over its enemies will be possible at some point. And there is a great deal of urgent work that can and must be done in the present to smooth the way for a future victory. The most important task is to remove from power Israel’s unelected “deep state,” or “administrative state,” which runs the country, not the Cabinet or the Knesset, and to empower elected politicians with genuine decision-making power. It would take me an entire article (which I would very much like to contribute to this site) to explain the full nature of this problem, and my recommendations for solving it. For now, I can only say that replacing the present leftist-dominated “deep state” with Israeli patriots in all of the key decision-making positions will be a long and arduous process. But once it succeeds, an Israeli military and political victory over its enemies will be possible
@ Ted Belman:
@ Edgar G.:
Since never maybe. Begin expelled Jews from Sinai and returned it and its oil and tourism in exchange for what? The terrorists continue to attack from there. Nazi-Sadat knew that tears were his only option, they had gotten their ass kicked too many times, hence tge Trohan Horse strategy.
@ ArnoldHarris:
Is this a female reform rabbi?
I prefer to live in hope that President Trump may break the mold of State Department policies. I am intent on presenting this plan to him and other decision makers for their consideration. I think its worth the try. You on the other hand recommend that Israel “hold on”. While you are somehow holding in, I will present my plan.
@ Ted Belman: I don’t believe that Israel can count on the assistance of any foreign power in the near future, and that “plans” based on that hope are useless. Israel must wait until the Western powers” view of the conflict has changed as a result of Islamist terrorism becoming so severe that its governments will reassess its policy towards Israel and decide to back , or at least tolerate, an Israeli military victory over all of its enemies. Israel must somehow hold on until that time comes. Perhaps an outside chance, but the only one for Israel’s long-term survival
@ Ted Belman:
OF COURSE….THAT’S been obvious from the very beginning. It all depends on the US being on course and not allowing itself to deviate or be sidetracked in any way. If it DID happen it would be a new dawning for the whole Jewish Nation, People, Land and Sovereign Israel.
@ Sebastien Zorn:
I certainly agree with you about Shaked, she is a real live wire in her unobtrusive way. We haven’t had a driving Israeli politician like her since…oh maybe Begin -in a different way of course. She seems to have a lot on her menu and is going through them in order of importance it seems.
She stirs up the mud in such an unobtrusive way that nobody notices until they see the bubbles begin to float away. If one way doesn’t work, she gets back to it right away and tries another way. Great.
@ Bear Klein:
OBVIOUSLY the whole Mudar proposition is based completely on “if” meaning that if the US decides that it’s feasible and doable rather than the present tzimmis which satisfies nobody…except perhaps Abbas and his long pocket cronies, then it can and likely will get done. All the naysayers, and doubting do-littles are writing a flood of posts which really are meaningless, because there’s absolutely nothing we can do except wait and see……
My original comment, which it seems nobody read, was really in admiration of such a complex encompassing document. The Great Ones posting in have better plans, but it seems to me that they are just running around in circles, because whatever plan they espouse, will not be implemented. They are not at the centre of where it will eventuate, and many a long mile needs to be ridden before it can be accomplished if ever.. ……. so what…?
The important thing I feel about THIS plan is that it goes back to our original “Re-Birth as a Sovereign Nation” The Weitzman-Feisal Agreement, The San Remo Conference, (which I believe Lord Curzon said was our Magna Carta). the British Mandate -which they so shamefully betrayed -and so on and so on, you all know them. Particularly the Anglo-American Treaty, because if this happens it will be the USA which will be the Great Mover, and can quote that what is happening is completely legal according to American and International Law. This is bound to come up at some time.
I see I’m back again to “moderation”.
@ :
I don’t know why this and the next were termed “anonymous because they are \MY posts…me..Edgar G.
@ Bear Klein:
Well said.
New Paradigm for long term peace and stability for Israel
If you want peace it is time to forget being politically correct and proportional in fighting Palestinian terrorism. It is time to be determined to win the conflict decisively and not just say the conflict will continue forever. It is not acceptable that every few months or years that Palestinians shoot rockets at Israelis, blow up bombs, kidnap children or resort to other forms of violence against Jews in Israel.
Two states in the Land of Israel west of the River Jordan is a formula for war not peace. The Palestinian (Arabs) have for 100 years not accepted the permanent presence of the Jews.
Israel has a legal, historical and moral right to the land of Israel west of the Jordan River.
1. However, except for a small amount of people on the right Israelis do not want to incorporate large amounts of Arabs into Israel. The public does not want a bi-national state.
2. To be able to buy Arabs properties and facilitate their peaceful emigration (buying them out) the terrorists must be jailed, deported or killed otherwise they will exact revenge on the families of those leaving or those leaving before they actually leave. They have a death sentence for selling properties to Jews.
Once you accomplish number 2 above an NGO working with the government should start enacting an humane assisted program of Arab emigration starting with East Jerusalem and Arab villages in Area C near Jewish Towns. Learn as you go and what problems come up. This will be fraught with problems imagined and not imagined. Just like a franchiser learns by first working on a few locations before expanding widely.
Annex Area C. Help the Arabs there emigrate.
Register the people there. Ask do you want to stay and demonstrate loyalty to the Jewish Democratic State of Israel.
This will require learning Hebrew; your children will be required to provide civil national service at age 18 to 20.
You will be required to inform on anyone planning terrorist acts including family members. This will be a condition of residency!
If after 10 years of residency they wish to apply for citizenship they may. There then will be at least a two year period to investigate if they have successfully fulfilled the requirements of residency prior to bestowing citizenship. If they and their immediate family have met the conditions citizenship can be bestowed upon them.
Once Israel has successfully integrated Area C it can then work on Areas A and B. Unless you can be sure you know how to successfully help Arabs emigrate overseas and integrate others why would anyone in their right mind make the approximately 1,500,000 Arabs (of Area A/B in Judah & Samaria) Israeli residents yet alone citizens. This is a terrorist’s dream, to be able to freely travel all over Israel with an Israeli ID card.
Walk before you run and go step by step in this super risky proposition of incorporating a massive amount of Arabs into the State of Israel. If you can be highly confident that you can help large amounts of Arabs emigrate then you could start annexing parts of Area A (a City at at a time). Israel should NOT bring an Arab Trojan Horse into Zion. If you can NOT make sure a large amount of Arabs will emigrate, not do annex these areas and make these people residents.
@ Ted Belman:
Ted Belman Said:
I say reality is that the basis of Bennett’s plan is a starting pointing from which to work from. It depends on Israeli actions first and foremost. Even he says that no plan is perfect and subject to modification. That is why the plan I post periodically here and elsewhere incorporates his plan and goes from there and with a blending of Sherman’s/Feiglins plans.
First kill the concept of a two state solution. No Jews move from their homes. Build, Build, Build in Judea/Samaria and Jerusalem. Create more realities on the ground. Buy up land from Arabs whenever and wherever in Judea/Samaria/Jerusalem.
@ Ted Belman:
I suspect big noise bills will go nowhere. The one to keep an eye on is Shaked. She is using the procedural rules in imaginative ways to get things done, piecemeal, under the wire.
“Justice Minister Ayelet Shaked announced Sunday that she would raise the “Beit El law” in the ministerial legislative committee despite the prime minister’s opposition to the law.”
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Flash.aspx/391581
“Justice Minister Ayelet Shaked called on the Attorney-General’s Office on Wednesday to open an investigation into possible war crimes committed by Breaking the Silence spokesman Dean Issacharoff. Her request followed the surfacing of a video in which Issacharoff claims to have beaten a Palestinian youth while he was an IDF officer years ago.”
http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Shaked-calls-for-war-crimes-probe-of-Breaking-Silence-official-496099
“Justice Ministry recently completes large-scale registration of 100,000+ acres in western Negev to state of Israel, to help develop area.”
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/230743
“Jerusalem Post Israel News
ISRAELI MINISTER LAUNCHES PLAN TO FIGHT POLYGAMY AMONG BEDUIN”
http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Will-Israel-take-steps-to-curb-polygamy-among-the-Beduin-497401
“Sparks flew late on Monday as Justice Minister Ayelet Shaked faced off against Attorney- General Avichai Mandelblit and State Attorney Shai Nitzan over the role of unelected government officials in restraining the will of elected officials.”
http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Shaked-tells-Eilat-confab-that-unelected-bureaucrats-endanger-our-democracy-493718
“Shaked has her day in courtThe announcement that 3 conservative judges will assume a role in Israel’s most important, and traditionally liberal, judicial institution leads some to celebrate and others to wallow in fear”
http://www.timesofisrael.com/shaked-has-her-day-in-court/
“Justice Minister Ayelet Shaked stated Saturday night that Bayit Yehudi is intent on annexing Ma’aleh Adumim and expressed home that the Trump administration would support the step.
Speaking to the Hamateh news program on Channel 10, she said annexing the settlement only minutes east of Jerusalem would be the first step to other annexations and could lead to the annexation of all of Area C.”
http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Shaked-We-want-to-annex-Maale-Adumim-477064
http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Politics-And-Diplomacy/Bayit-Yehudis-Shaked-Ill-run-for-PM-someday-483443
Justice google Shaked and select news. She’s busy. Get’s little coverage.
In the meantime, none of this hurts. It’s what should happen. If we throw enough stuff against the wall, maybe something will stick.
Thanks for the feedback. Yes its a huge long shot amounting to a fantasy but the rewards are also great.
The Jordan option have been around for many years and it never attracted me. What’s different now is that Trump gave me hope for an out of the box solution might be possible,. Yes, I agree that he has disappointed me in part. Sooner or later he will abandon the PA option. Maybe he will be open to Ultimate solutions.
So I am laying the ground work . I am educating people of the possibilities.
Is the solution offered by Feiglin or Sherman any more doable. As I keep telling Sherman, Israelis are not near ready to support his plan. Few people like Glicks plan.
Bennett’s plan is closer to acceptance and I could live with that.
The Trump administration has made it clear that it does not intend any drastic changes in America’s traditional Mideast policies. It has ended insulting behavior towards Israel, denounces radical Islamic terrorism, and has made a modest increase in pressure on Iran, But that’s about all. They want to find-tune America’s Mideast policy, changing its tone from what it was under Obama, but not changing its substance much. It is naive to think that it will desert King Abdullah and the Hashemite dynasty, who are traditional allies of the United States. I see no evidence at all that Mr. Mudran represents the overwhelming majority of Jordanians, or indeed anyone but himself. Hopes for a Mudran -led government in Amman are fantasies.@ Ted Belman:
@ Ted Belman:
Mudar, makes two statements which you repeat here . Ted Belman Said:
Do you have any evidence or proof of the above statements? It would seem if they are not true you and Mudar are going down rabbit holes.
@ Sebastien Zorn:
… To which the priest, if he were honest to his true self, would have replied to the rabbi:
“Okay. Forget the pork. But how’s about you and me having some really glorious sex? Together.”
Arnold Harris, Outspeaker
@ Steve Lieblich:
The establishment in Israel including the current government wants to keep the king in power. After all the border has been quite for all these years. The King is not responsible for this. It is the US who control the Jordan Army, that is. If the US wants to replace the King with Zahran, they could do it and keep him safe.
Mudar heads the Jordan Opposition Coalition which represents the vast majority of Jordanizan citizens.
My article contains links to two articles which puts into question whether the King is good for Israel. Please read them.
This plan has been put forward, not in ignorance of what you wrote, but with all that in mind.
adamdalgliesh Said:
Mudar’s plan is dependent on Trump putting him in power and keeping him there.
@ Abdul Ameer:
You are right but so long as solutions are being discussed, regardless of what you write, I ad mine to the mix as the ultimate one.
@ Steve Lieblich:
Perhaps. And perhaps another problem would be that there would then be three Palestinian states, Hamas and PA still being in place. If something should go wrong – Arab Spring – style – that might set up the pre-condition for activating articles 5 and 6 of the 1974 PLO Ten Point Phased Plan. See:
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/ten-point-plan-of-the-plo-june-1974
@ Abdul Ameer:
@ Edgar G.:
Different versions here including a bawdy parody
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdul_Abulbul_Amir
Actually, if you google: abdul ameer by percy french
a lot comes up including a 1927 version on youtube.
Though I know you were really referring to the Pakistani cricket player by that name born in 1992
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdul_Ameer
@ :
I don’t get your meaning, but your comment reminds me of the joke about the rabbi and the priest who are comparing the things they are forbidden, in the case of the priest, sex, and in the case of the rabbi, pork. Both admit having tried both at some point. The rabbi then nudges the priest and says, “admit it, sex is better, isn’t it?
Surely Israel, and any non-Jordanian, should be wary of interfering in Jordanian politics. That’s not to say that any interested party can’t explore this option in discussion and analysis, however it’s really up to citizens of Jordan, and the Arabs of Palestine who are proposed to become its citizens, to implement it.
If Israel were to take action to implement this, it could be seen as interfering, and could also be seen as a betrayal of the relationship Israel currently has with the Jordanian monarchy, which has been relatively mutually beneficial.
Finally, there is also the concern that removal of the monarchy, which has been a stable regime for decades, may create a vacuum that invites the turmoil that we’ve seen in Libya, Syria, Iraq etc, when powerful dictatorships are removed.
@ Sebastien Zorn:
Your comment reminds me of the story by Jackie Mason, who said that “in the Torah the sin of eating treif is just as bad as the sin of adultery…” He thought about it… and said ” I just can’t see the comparison”
@ Bear Klein:
The 3rd parties that are being bruited around are noway as useless as Jordan, in fact Jordan is expected, by the plan to be on the receipt of the \’sharp end”, and the 3rd parties first and foremost begin with the US.A. So I don’t even see the point of mentioning Jordan in that concept, except as a sort of …grumble needing to say something, but finding no real complaint.
Depending on third parties to solve Israels problems (e.g. such as Jordanians) is not necessarily a formula for actually getting anything moving. Seems like an academic exercise.
@ Edgar G.:
He also wrote “Slattery’s Mounted Fut.” It begins…”Down from the mountains in batallions and platoons…came four and twenty fighting men and a couple of stout gossoons…” You should look it up on Youtube.
@ Abdul Ameer:
Oh so you know the song…..didn’t think anyone had ever heard of it. Percy French was a really brilliant composer, one of the very best, unknown today, but I was brought up in Ireland where his songs were sung all the time. I learnt Abdul as a baby, it was very popular and sung everywhere, on the radio almost every day. I think the version I used to hear ended in a draw when they both dropped at the same time. I haven’t heard or thought about it for about 65 years….until now.
So many unexpected, interesting things crop up on this site, must be the best around. The posts are classes above average, and always interesting.
@ Edgar G.:
Actually, that is my pseudonym. My real name is Ivan Skavinsky Skivar.
Also@ Ted Belman:
Ted, Glad an alternative paradigm to the two state solution is being discussed.
The site is easier to navigate and is a definite improvement.
@ adamdalgliesh:
My understanding, possibly misplaced, is that Zahran would be backed by Israel, the U.S.A. and other interested powers with overwhelming “persuasion”……. This would settle the Local Arab-Israeli situation, and my further suggestion above, about editing the Koran, and making sure it is taught, would, over a number of generations, settle the other……I’m not taking into consideration the seemingly genetic Jew-hatred, for which there seems only a medical cure.
@ Abdul Ameer:
I have covered all the very pertinent points in my post above, although not in the detail that you have done.
@ Abdul Ameer:
Are you by any chance “Abdul a Bul Bul Emir…”??
I am relatively certain that none of the above would-be Arab-Israeli solutions will ever take place. In negative order, the non-starters begin with the US government ordering Alfie the Hashemite Englishman to relinquish his throne in Amman, in supposition that a pro-Israel government will take the place of His Purported Majesty.
In place of all this dreamland nonsense, try considering a significant strategy that the Israelis can themselves engineer. I refer to dumping all connections and support by Israel of the so-called Palestine Authority, which never has been anything other than the old Fatah gang dressed up in US State Department colors.
The latest Arab crook running that show isn’t even a Palestinian, and I understand that he resides mostly in or near one of the Persian Gulf states.
Instead of endless ass-kissing of him and his gang, start negotiating immediately and exclusively with the a sufficient number of the 50 or more greater or lesser hamulas — extended blood-defined families who have been the real local powers of all the Arab-populated cities in Shomron and Yehuda, going back to even before the Turks took over control of Eretz-Yisrael back in the era Suleiman the Magnificent. The Ottoman sultans, over time, acquired more interest in fucking as many of the harem women as they could get it up for. Such exertions, throughout history, wind up with local families establishing their own bases of power in any and all locales where they could profitably control most or even all the local businesses.
In any case, divide and conquer proved a useful tool for the Roman Empire before the idiots among the later emperors lost control of their imperial borders.
In the case of modern Israel, I think that chopping up administration of the Arabs of Shomron and Yehuda into locally governed hamulaships would work surprisingly well; most of them are more concerned with maintaining their own local control than they are in Arab nationalism. Most of them are businessmen, and money talks to them quite nicely.
Arnold Harris, Outspeaker
Unfortunately, there is no possibility that Mr. Mudar Zubran or others with similar views will come to power anytime soon in Jordan. A Muslim Brotherhood takeover is much more likely, As a result, there is no realistic possibility that this “solution” or “plan” will be implemented. The same is true of Dr. Sherman’s plan and all the others.
The reality is that there will be no diplomatic or negotiated “solution” in the foreseeable future, because the other side (or sides) are not willing to negotiate in good faith. The only “solution” is for Israel to win the war with the Arab-Muslim world–in both its military and propaganda fronts. Then Israel can impose what terms it pleases on the defeated enemy. Israelis should therefore concentrate on defeating it enemies, both “on the ground” and in the court of public opinion, and leave “solutions” to whenever it has won the war. Of course, victory is not assured, and defeat is a very real possibility. So let us concentrate on developing war-winning strategies rather than diplomatic “solutions.”
This “ultimate solution” to the Israel-Palestine conflict is deeply flawed because it is based on the assumptions that the conflict is a “Palestine-Israel conflict” and that the “Palestinians” will be motivated by material incentives. However, the conflict is NOT and “Israel-Palestine” conflict. All the evidence indicates that the conflict is an Islamic holy war (jihad) against the Jews just like the Hamas Charter says, and just like the Islamic Republic of Iran says. Islamic sacred doctrine commands Moslems to make war against the Jews and either subjugate them to Islamic rule or to kill them. This “ultimate” solution demands that the Moslem Palestinians violate the sacred commands of their god and their prophet.
Sounds promising. I was reminded of “Sallah Shabati” directed by Ephraim Kishon
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0058541/plotsummary?ref_=tt_ov_pl
In which Sallah, a Yemenite Jewish immigrant living with his family in a temporary transit camp, after being unable to join a kibbutz, gets to move with his family to brand new government constructed housing by protesting against it so that they will be forced to move there because, as he reasons, “you always get what you don’t want.”
@ Edgar G.:
Talking about “Menu” reminds me of the early 1900s Manchester England Jewish Comedian Julian Rose in his famous stories about “Levinsky at the Vedding”. all written by himself….
“The crowd vanted to go home but supper didn’t yet announced..all of a suddenly supper vas annunced and ..Oy..vat a rush, like a crowd of pigs, I vas foist at the table and seen everything…. They hed it all written down on a little piece paper, and the fois tthing to eat was something called Meenu…..I didn’t git nonna dat”…..
@ Ted Belman:
I seem to have a permanent thick blue line marked Menu, containing only 3 parallel lines on the LHS and ABOVE it ther eis a similarly proportioned black line with only a W (for WordPefect) and something that looks like a clock or elevatot floor indicator with one pointer. On the RHS there is merely the usual figure outline.
As for the 5 minute edit limit, NOW I KNOW what happened to my Grande Opus the other day which, when I was correcting typos, decided to enlarge into a proper response to the article. After sweating away at it for about 15-20minutes, I found that it had never come on line, and was gone where all good Arabs go….It was a small essay on Lansky as told to me by his cousin, living in Panama. Also, I actually also saw on TV rather than read, the comments made by his widow who extolled him. She also said there was a lot written about him which was newspaper imagination.
So I really like the new format although it seems strange to go through the indics of all the posts and articles, before getting to the one you want. At least that’s what I was doing until I realised that I xould just key on the wanted article wait until it appears. I generally read ALL the articles anyway.
But I’d prefer the Edit to be 10 rather than 5. After I print, I think of what I SHOULD have said…often. Is there a problem with that….?
[Israel et al] could finance the building of a new Jordanian city of 1 million people.
Horrible.
@ Edgar G.:
If you look at the Menu line above these posts you will see that I have added Jordan Option. Click on it.
The redesign of the site is now completed. All commenters have 5 minutes to edit their comments.
Hope you all like the few changes.
It sounds not only eminently do-able, but extremely exciting, even for this old geezer. I have written profusely about Mudar Zahran and his plans as being the only proper and practical way to settle the conflict and it’s impedimenta. I knew, as soon as i heard of them, that this was the only proper way.
I agreed partially with both Sherman and Feiglin, but was and AM, totally against giving a single Arab any claim to citizenship. The benign, smiling Arab of now, when getting all the goodies, turns into a raving barbarian often after a visit to a mosque. They are as easily radicalised as the American Indians were influenced by alcohol. It seems a genetic thing. And their hatred for Jews will take generations to fade, and it probably never will. Not unless the Koran is heavily altered and made mandatory study.
To move from YESHA to Jordan would cost, with a moving company, about $800-1000. And the thought of getting free modern apartments,……..And many of these new Jordanians would be likely offered employment after a while taken to settle in, so they would be comparatively well off right from the start.
The obscene amounts proposed by Sherman (not his money) and Feiglin (dreaming) are out of the question and never would be implemented, especially when a practically cost-free (by comparison) respectable, honourable solution is right under our noses. Let it be so. And they can then go to hell in their own country, not make a hell in Israel for us.