At his weekly cabinet meeting Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu had strong words for the international community, saying, “We are not prepared to repeat the same mistake of a unilateral withdrawal and withdrawals that, in effect, led Hamas to take control of Gaza.” Israel “will […] withstand the international pressure,” he pledged, also placing blame for Israel’s current situation on international pressure “were it not for which, we would not have reached this point.”
“I have always been astonished at the delusions of others who are prepared to continue this process and call it peace. You would hand over more territory, in this case in Judea and Samaria that controls Israel’s cities, to the same people and the result, of course, will be a Gaza on the outskirts of Tel Aviv, Hadera and Kfar Saba,” he said.
“Today, this is what is required from leadership in Israel – to have no illusions, to stand up for the vital interests of the State of Israel and to rebuff the pressure to bring Gaza into every home in Israel.”
Netanyahu was responding to Hamas terror chief Khaled Meshal’s statement Saturday that “Palestine from the river to the sea, from the north to the south, is our land and we will never give up one inch or any part of it.”
Meshal also reiterated Hamas’s policy of terror. “Jihad and armed resistance are the right and real way to liberate Palestine and restore our rights.”
Meshal was in Gaza for the first time over the weekend to celebrate Hamas’s 25th anniversary and its recent claimed military “victory” over Israel.
Netanyahu said of Meshal’s statement that Hamas “have no intention of compromising with us; they want to destroy the state. They will fail, of course; in the annals of the history of our people, we – the Jewish People – have overcome such enemies.”
“We want a true peace with our neighbors. But we will not close our eyes and stick our heads in the sand,” he said.
Netanyahu also had harsh words for PA President Mahmoud Abbas saying, “it is interesting that Abu Mazen has issued no condemnation, not of the remarks about the destruction of Israel, just as previously he did not condemn the missiles that were fired at Israel. To my regret, he strives for unity with the same Hamas that is supported by Iran.”
dweller Said:
Yes, you nailed it. I knew it was something of that sort, i have felt it myself, in certain circumstances (obviously, irrelevant to Jewishness).
@ dionissis mitropoulos:
Since it is invariably the anti-Zionist Jews & left-wing Jews who fight against us, I see no choice BUT to fight them.
Traditionally (and for a multiplicity of reasons), our side of the divide has been reluctant to attack other Jews (of any stripe), with the consequent result being that the universalist Jewish left — which has NEVER had any such compunctions of its own toward fighting us — has been not only dominant over the particularist Jewish right, but has also maintained a smug presumption of its own intrinsic superiority thoughout the struggle.
It’s inconceivable to them that they could possibly be wrong in any particular. (How could they be? — since they are so thoroughly conformed to the world, which cannot be wrong.)
Not sure that polite & gentle have the capacity to get their attention, Dionissis. They are each wrapped up in a web of assumptions, most of which — while objectively false — are absolutely essential to their own, long-cultivated & thoroughly calcified self-image.
So they have a far greater stake in keeping Reality at bay than they do in exercising the simple common sense that would let the words of a challenging perspective penetrate.
But your experience with such types may be different from mine.
Yes. This got a snort out of me:
“I wouldn’t want the police to come out of the blue in my house and demand to look through my girlfriend’s S/M gear or my boyfriend’s spliff stash.”
BTW, Regarding the Bar Kokhba War that you had to look up on Wikipedia (not usually the most reliable of sites to consult): Comment #24
Also: Comments #18-21
And there are plenty more of my posts pertaining to that on this site — Google: “dweller” + “Bar Kokhba War.”
@ dionissis mitropoulos:
Yes, but even the sowing of seed presumes at least some consideration for the soil quality and its capacity for sustaining life — ultimately, if not soon.
I’ve no illusions, for example, as to the ability of ‘new’ ideas to promptly find fertile ground here (viz., on this site)
— but I do KNOW when something which — while not readily adopted or accepted (or even considered right away) — is at least grudgingly received. That’s not an impossibility here.
With the Weiss blog, however, we’re talking about a crowd that is extraordinarily full of itself — and to the best of my awareness, incapable thus of receptivity. There’s a difference.
With Jews, it’s like a national version of Battered-Child Syndrome:
— ‘Since the world — City Hall, the grown-ups, the powers-that-be, etc — demonstrably hate[s] me, there must be something wrong with something very basic about me.’
@ dionissis mitropoulos:
If you could only imagine how long it takes Mondoweiss to moderate the comments. Right now i have at least twenty awaiting moderation.
@ dweller:
dweller Said:
Talking sense might have that seed-effect you have once appealed to – right now they might fight it, but in the future the words they heard might start making sense to them.
I strangely (well, not that strangely) find an emotional affinity with anti-Zionist Jews (not with their views on Israel!). I am the type who (if i had been born a jew in the Diaspora) would respond to anti-Semitic hatred with an attempt to make the non-Jew haters stop hating me by accommodating their demands (renounce Israel, first and foremost).
I would urge that they should not be fought (not the Jewish ones), but merely refuted, as politely and gently as possible. Nothing to lose if we try.
Did you have a look at my attempts to that effect in their comment section?
@ dionissis mitropoulos:
Mondoweiss? — Philip Weiss’ blog?
The guy’s an imbecile
— and the posters he draws to himself are invariably nothing but Israel haters.
Virulent anti-Zionists like that crowd most assuredly have to be fought, I’ll grant you
— but I’m not at all clear that the place to do it is on their blogsites.
Do you really think there’s any hope of bringing any of them around?
Dr Landes has not posted anything yet to the Telegraph. But i am already having a very lengthy exchange in Mondoweiss
http://mondoweiss.net/2012/12/chuck-hagel-said-idea-of-going-to-war-with-iran-is-alice-in-wonderland.html/comment-page-1#comment-524651
History of Israel has resurfaced again, you up to it?
@ dweller:
dweller Said:
I was in a mood for doing anything possible to drag Yamit into the conflict.
But he ignored us.
@ steven l:
True enough, though (as I noted) not from any lack of its own supply
— only, rather, from the inordinate power wielded by the devotees
of the false religion of enviromentalism.
@ dionissis mitropoulos:
Yes; hadn’t realized where you were going with that.
.@ dweller:
The antisemites (ME, Venezuela etc) make $billions by selling oil & gas all over the world. Significant amount of this money is used to promote antisemitism (verbal and violent). Who buy this oil? The whole world minus the Canada. The US still buy 1/3 of its oil from the enemies of IL.
@ dweller:
dweller Said:
Yes. But can’t the word “stingy” be qualified with “emotionally”, meaning that someone is ungenerous with her emotions?
@ dionissis mitropoulos:
That’s certain to be encouraging.
Guess you can never know when one’s fairy godmother will put in an appearance.
Another inter-linguistic idiom alert:
“Stingy” [soft-“g” sound, as in “gesture” or “Beijing” or “badge” or geriatric”] is a USA-English synonym for miserly, or ungenerous with one’s money.
@ dweller:
dweller Said:
I swear on Obama’s life that i didn’t do it intentionally.
dweller Said:
I frequently encounter articles about advances in biotechnology due to Israeli scientists.
But never thought you have reached as far as mutating Cinderella’s sisters into wasps!!!
Well done, Israel!
PS. I know that wasps might (be) sting(y) (emotionally), watch them!
@ dionissis mitropoulos:
Well, if MY comment doesn’t stir up the usual hornet’s nest around here, yours surely will. . . .
@ steven l:
? ? ? ? ?
There’s no ‘shortage’ of oil in the West.
USA has more oil than the Sa’udis
— and enough natural gas to power the place for a hundred years.
And Israel will be an oil & gas EXPORTER in, what, maybe 6-8 yrs’ time? (less?)
The only matter over which we could possibly have common cause with BHO would be his getting ’round to giving the okay to drill
—and frak.
And even THEN, I wouldn’t trust his motives from here to the front door.
@ dweller:
dweller Said:
Dweller, your comment provides food for thought, i had a bite and found it
yamityammy!@ dionissis mitropoulos:
Flattery will get you absolutely. . . . everything!
I am 100 percent Jewish by birth, 100 percent Jewish by training, 100 percent Jewish by conviction.
— I’m no “paint-by-the-numbers” Jew — but then, neither was any other Jew who was ever worth a tinker’s damn.
I like Jesus, not least because — notwithstanding the denials by both conventional Christians AND conventional Jews (each for their own self-serving reasons) — he is unmistakably the Jewel-in-the-Crown of Jewish civilization.
I’ve never subscribed to the Nicene Creed or any of the subsequent ones which proclaim that particular Jew to have been ‘divine’ (a proposition which would’ve scandalized & outraged not only his original disciples, but also the man himself)
— so no self-professed ‘Christian’ would ever apply the ‘Christian’ label to me.
Not that I mind hearing it so applied. (A few of the habituees of this board do tend to use the term as something on the order of an epithet-qua-cussword; but that’s their problem.)
C.R., don’t take any offense, i am just joking.
@ dweller:
dweller Said:
“Folks” it will be, then!
dweller Said:
Mind you? I love both ribbing and getting ribbed!
Not to mention that all your comments are a lesson in eloquent English.
Despite being a Christian, you are doing just great!
@ dionissis mitropoulos:
Actually, “Lad” is male specific too (and not very current either, except in special or ironic circumstances).
“Folks” is neutral plural
— as is “persons” (albeit perhaps a bit wooden).
“Guys” (in the plural) has been gaining purchase in many circles as acceptable to represent both genders (especially in gender-mixed company); though I still wouldn’t be too ready to use it.
Of course, if you wanted to go the “George Eliot” route, you could alter the (English) spelling of your given name to “Dionysos.”
— Just ribbing you; don’t mind me.
@ dweller:
So it’s like the term “guy”. I didn’t know that, thanks.
I’ll stick to “lad”.
@ dionissis mitropoulos:
Just so you know (and not to be putting too fine a point on it). . . . in American-accented English (in English generally too, I suppose, though I’ve never heard anybody other than Americans use the term), “dude” is gender-specific to the male of the species.
@ dionissis mitropoulos:
“In my anything but humble opinion.”
dweller Said:
Can’t find the internet slang meaning of it in Google???
I have left a reply, but it’s in moderation.
dweller Said:
Dweller, that was Quatar’s contribution to the terrorists – funny coincidence that Turkey matched the amount!
But will the vacillating non-conservative Netanyahu withstand international pressure?
We will see.
@ dionissis mitropoulos:
dweller Said:
I am with you all the way: if you get caught in just one a lie, whoever you are, that’s the end of your credibility.
But i was refering to Netanyahu’s statement (the last sentence of the above post), where he deplored Abbas’strive for unity with an organization that is in cahoots with Iran – this is not a lie, he just left out the fact that there might be other financiers of Hamas, in addition to Iran.
dweller Said:
I was referring to our cognitive war (us, pro-Israel dudes) against the anti-Israel bashers. In the previous article of Dr Landes (http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/richardlandes/100190395/pallywood-and-the-pornography-of-death-the-western-media-suckered-again/) in the Telegraph (where i got into the argument one day late and i i spoke online with Dr Landes for the first time!) i had exchanges with a Muslim, two English leftists, and an “as a Jew” – piece of cake, i may add (my comments are in the first and last pages of the comment section, in case you want to make suggestions as to how i can improve certain aspects of my defense for Israel – make sure you order the comments by the “oldest” option, otherwise you can’t easily make sense).
Dr Landes current article at the Augean Stables (the-painful-paradoxes-of-the-left-stupefaction-round-242469) is about the Left’s disregard of the Muslim threat. Someone, who must have been a covert Muslim, made some disparaging comments in the Augean Stables, I replied, Dr Landes replied (he said i made some good points!) and he told the putative Muslim that he is going to post in the Telegraph a version of that article together with our comments.
The subject looks like having nothing to do with Israel (at least, not directly), but Israel-haters always find a pretext to insert an accusation(s) against her.
As soon as it’s up on the Telegraph, i will let you know by leaving a comment here.
@ dionissis mitropoulos:
Quite possibly so — in a strictly “wham-bam-thank-you-Ma’am” world.
OTOH, in an internet-connected universe — where everybody’s got an opinion & nobody’s going away anytime soon (where would they go?) — the coin of the realm is credibility.
That is, the willingness (or at least, the readiness) to depart from broad brushstrokes & solid, primary colors — CAN have real practical value:
— the willingness to allow for texture & nuance — where it can be done in perspective, of course (viz., in a manner that doesn’t distract, or draw focus, from what one views as the central point) — is the attitude more likely to elicit the kind of trust that will bring an inquirer back, again & again, for “repeat business.”
It’s a good “investment,” IMABHO.
His essay on the cognitive war specifically or a different one? — what’s the actual title?
— Whatever remains of this week may be a bit spotty for me (time-wise), but I’m happy to poke around in there if it’ll help.
I’ve noticed that SOME of those comments in his Telegraph blog can go on for many thousands of words, with no paragraphing (YOUCH!).
@ yamit82:
$400 million, for starters.
Have seen several articles over the past yr. Here are a few links. (I’m sure you can turn up plenty more.) :
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/03/world/middleeast/erdogan-says-talks-are-under-way-for-trip-to-gaza.html?_r=0&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1355292441-YFhm1CvVdE59vZlCiegHkQ
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/think-tanked/post/is-turkey-the-new-home-for-hamas/2012/01/27/gIQAEmEeVQ_blog.html
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2012/11/18/israel-hamas-fight-more-risky-in-a-changed-middle-east/1713345/
Here’s the picture:
In June 2011, Tehran cut off her subsidy to Hamas, which was deserting the sinking Syrian ship — and couldn’t be relied upon to make common cause with Iran in the event of a showdown over Tehran’s nuke program.
Notwithstanding the Hamas disappointment at the time, the Islamic Republic continued to fund Islamic Jihad in Gaza (and in any event, to arm BOTH groups) — and was seeking (at least, until Pillar of Cloud) to accelerate PIJ’s training & arms build-up in hopes of making it the spearhead of a Gaza attack on Israel should the said showdown materialize.
Meanwhile, however, Erdogan, eager to challenge the Mullahs’ claim to regional Islamic leadership (even at the expense of Ankara’s erstwhile, strategic quasi-‘alliance’ with Jerusalem), had swiftly moved to fill the Hamas funding gap, while seeking, as well, to end Israel’s lawful maritime blockade of the Gaza coastline. Hence, e.g., their sponsorship of the Mavi Marmora fiasco.
And of course, now QATAR’s been getting into the Hamas act as well.
@ dweller:
dweller Said:
How much? and Your source? Israel supplies I believe more than any individual Muslim or Arab source.
@ steven l:
I figured it afterwards, but i had already asked you the question.
@ dionissis mitropoulos:
what is ur best guess! President Obama
Steven, who is Pr.O.?
The whole world subsidies antisemitism through OIL!
That why Jews MUST push for alternative sources of energy.
At least like this we have a common cause with Pr. O.
@ dweller:
dweller Said:
It’s better PR though to stress the Iran connection. Most westerners have a neutral stance towards Turkey (because of the Media presentation of Erdogan as moderate) whereas they don’t like Iran.
Contempt by association has better chance of succeeding if the western audience is presented with the more despicable financier.
Now that it’s just the two of us, i need to ask a question: will you be able to spare some time online this week to help in the cognitive war? Dr Landes has announced that he is going to post in his Telegraph blog a post of his that is already up in his own blog, the Augean Stables. It is bound to attract, as is usually the case, lots of the anti-Israel crowd. And they are bound to make the usual accusations about Israel. I have noticed that i can take out most of them, but there is an issue that i am particularly weak: the pre-1948 history (1948 included). Most of the Jew-haters are equally ignorant as i am, but it happens sometimes that someone from them has read a revisionist history account, and i dare not deal with them, not because i mind losing the argument (i am beyond this form of shame) but because, if an argument develops and i lose it, it will stay in the readers’ mind as an issue that has been decided against Israel. Your knowledge of history will be great help.
So, what do you think?
Come & take it.
After all, I’m sure that Israel could spare the dear boy, what. . . .say, 128 cu ft of soil?
— 6′ x 3′ x 6′.
Part of Hamas’ bankroll these days comes from TURKEY.