[ALON PLAN, HERE WE COME. T. BELMAN]
Yesh Atid, Hatnua are likely to appeal vote on bill that would apply Israeli law to the area, significantly limit PM, Livni in peace talks; Erekat: Bill shows Israel’s “indifference” to international law, undermines peace efforts.
The government may be on the way to annexing the Jordan Valley, with the Ministerial Committee for Legislation approving a bill to that effect Sunday.
The proposal by MK Miri Regev (Likud Beytenu) would apply Israeli law to the area, significantly limiting Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu and Justice Minister Tzipi Livni in peace talks.
If the bill becomes law, Netanyahu would be unable to accept the American offer to put the Jordan Valley and border crossings into Jordan under Palestinian control, with IDF soldiers posted at the border and the US providing additional security.
“The ministerial committee’s approval of this bill now, when there are talks with the Palestinians, is a clear statement by the government that the towns in the Jordan Valley are a strategic and security asset of the State of Israel that must stay in our hands,” Regev said.
According to Regev, the Jordan Valley is the “safety belt” on the eastern border.
Interior Minister Gideon Sa’ar worked to convince the committee to approve the bill, saying “there is no separation between settlement and security, and the Jordan Valley is a consensus among Israeli citizens. There’s nothing wrong with everyone knowing that the Jordan Valley will remain Israeli in any final status agreement.”
Eight ministers on the committee, all from the Likud, Yisrael Beytenu or Bayit Yehudi, voted in favor of the bill, while Hatnua and Yesh Atid ministers opposed.
Regev thanked Interior Minister Gideon Sa’ar and Housing and Construction Minister Uri Ariel for pushing the bill through the committee. She and Sa’ar plan to visit the Jordan Valley later this week.
Livni, Finance Minister Yair Lapid and Health Minister Yael German said they would submit an appeal of the vote.
Following their appeal, the bill would be brought back to a second vote by all of the ministers, where the combination of Bayit Yehudi, Yisrael Beytenu and Likud ministers, minus Netanyahu, would give it a broad majority.
Chief Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erekat condemned the bill, telling Ma’an the vote in favor of it shows Israel’s “indifference” to international law, as well as undermining US Secretary of State John Kerry’s efforts for peace.
Erekat also said the Palestinian response to the bill should be to seek statehood recognition from all international bodies.
MK Nitzan Horowitz (Meretz) said the committee’s approval of the bill indicates that “Netanyahu suffers from a split personality, or he’s a serial cheat.”
“On the one hand, he frees murdering terrorists and with the other he allows the extremists in his party pass laws that stop negotiations. On the one hand he sends Tzipi Livni to talk to the Palestinians and on the other he builds settlements. Either way, he is hurting the citizens of Israel,” Horowitz said.
“This government is being outrageously irresponsible,” MK Nachman Shai (Labor) said. “Instead of promoting the only way to save the State of Israel from becoming a binational state, it is ruining any chance of a treaty and deteriorating us to international isolation.”
According to Shai, the vote reveals the government’s real face, even though it is negotiating with the Palestinians.
In the coalition, Yesh Atid faction chairman Ofer Shelah called the bill “irresponsible and dangerous, which causes harm even if it does not become law in the end.”
“The fact that all Likud ministers voted for this bill raises questions about the prime minister’s party’s seriousness, since he decided to enter negotiations with the Palestinians while his ministers support a bill that will tie Israel’s hands in those talks and makes us look like we’re doing everything to sabotage them,” Shelah said.
@ David Chase:
Yes Darlin, I am agreeing with you,I’m glad you GET IT FINAlly!!!!!!!!! AT LAST HAPPY NEW YEAR
@ honeybee:
I think you are agreeing with me and you don’t realize it. The complaint about the inconsistency of the present government is coming from the left suggesting that if we’ve already gone so far as to release prisoners and send Tzipi Livni to the negotiation that we’ve somehow relinquished our rights to build in the settlements, a right not only given to us at San Remo and in the Mandate for Palestine but maintained by agreement in the Oslo accords. How does the MK quoted come up with the idea that that right is relinquished because we agreed to release prisoners- my application to the political realm of the idea of the neurotic need for consistency as an argument against the right, probably another very good definition of insanity.
David Chase Said:
Of course, if not then what was the reason for BB commissioning the Levy Report and why should the Jews not settle in their legally dedicated historic homeland. Is it important for Jews to keep reinforcing the myths of the foreigners in a perpetual swindle and slicing off of the Jewish homeland? First the truth must be given to Israeli children that illegal jewish settlement west of the Jordan river is a lie and an intentional swindle and that all who repeat this lie are crooked enemies of the Jewish people. Honesty really is sometimes the best policy. If Obama is pressuring Israel then the Israeli people should be told the truth and should be shown the filthy underbelly of the swindlers. If the alliance with the americans is based on fear then Jews should be aware and act according to the facts.
One has a different MO with an covert enemy than with an ally.
CuriousAmerican Said:
I condemened you for anti semitic behavior which I clearly elucidated. You and Quigley are intent on ignoring the reasons I gave, repeatedly every time you exhibited your anti semitic behavior on past threads also, because it is obvious that you have no reasonable answer to my accusations. It is easier for you both to keep repeating the mantra that you were condemned for having the same concept as Sherman: that is of course a convenient lie and mantra for you both to keep repeating. Josef Goebbels said that “a lie repeated often enough becomes the truth” and you both prove to be excellent students.
I will continue to point out your behaviors as you exhibit them.
CuriousAmerican Said:
the cost of trucks and buses across the border! many syrians just left Syria for turkey and Jordan. why should Israel be different? No one should expect the Jews to live with these perennial violent muslim nutters. The EU is starting to get their lesson for trying to force that same scenario on the Jews.
CuriousAmerican Said:
Can’t win for trying!!!!!!!!!!!
CuriousAmerican Said:
Darlin, your like a dog with rag. Ano Nuevo Propero, Chulo!!!!!!!!!
David Chase Said:
A foolish consistency is the Hobgoblin of small minds?????????? Happy New Year,David!!!!!!!!!!!
Bear Klein Said:
Israel’s critics point out it’s inconsistencies. Would they be more pleased had we not agreed to the prisoner releases and sent Rabbi Kahane instead of Tzipi Livni to the negotiating table and then started building in the settlements. Then it would be OK. Their neurotic need for consistency is more dangerous than any inconsistency in the present leadership.
Wow! Isn’t that what I suggest? Hmm! Bernard Ross condemns me for suggesting the same thing.
How much is an Arab-free Judea and Samaria worth to you?
CuriousAmerican Said:
How about a college fund and dowries too!!!!!!!!!
@ David Chase:
Don’t be surprised that actions and word don’t agree!
US prepares to pay Netanyahu back for Iran campaign, using Palestinian issue as bludgeon
The Obama administration is preparing to settle scores with Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu, for his campaign against US-led nuclear diplomacy with Iran, by holding him to blame for the impasse in Israel-Palestinian negotiations. This will ignore the uniform assessments by US and Israeli intelligence analysts that it is the Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas who is holding out against all Secretary of State John Kerry’s Herculean efforts for a peace accord with Israel, say debkafile’s Washington and Jerusalem sources.
yamit82 Said:
Sounds like Medina County,yawl!!!!!!!!!
bernard ross Said:
Smoke and mirrors for public consumption!!!!!!!
yamit82 Said:
Arn’t you much worldly for scock and surprise????????????
bernard ross Said:
We shall soon see. nothing stays secret in Israel for very long. Usually!!!!
Israeli population surpasses 8 million
Population grows by 147,000 in 2013, including 19,200 immigrants from around the world • Jewish immigration from France soars by 63% • Immigrant Absorption Minister Sofa Landver: I’m hopeful the aliyah trend will continue to grow.
Israel’s population grew in 2013 by 1.8 percent, or 147,000 people, bringing the country’s total population to 8.1 million, according to data from the Jewish Agency and the Immigrant Absorption Ministry.
Some 19,200 Jews moved to Israel from other countries. The most significant rise was in the number of immigrants from France, with 3,120 French Jews moving to Israel in 2013, a 63% jump from the previous year (1,916). The largest group of immigrants, 7,520, came from the former Soviet Union. Some 2,680 immigrants came from the United States.
The oldest person to immigrate this year was a 103-year-old man from the U.S., and the youngest was only five weeks old.
Immigrant Absorption Minister Sofa Landver said: “Every immigrant who arrives to establish a home in Israel makes me very happy, and I am hopeful the aliyah trend will continue to grow.”
Jewish Agency Chairman Natan Sharansky said, “This is an era of making aliyah by choice, not due to adversity, so it is important that we continue the Jewish Agency’s efforts to strengthen the Jewish identity of hundreds of thousands of young people in the world and deepen their connection to Israel.”
White House gives Iran the green light
Dr. Reuven Berko | The American hypocrisy
The U.S. has no qualms about interfering in Israel’s internal affairs over the release of Palestinian terrorists, while saying that Jonathan Pollard’s release is of no concern to us.
Netanyahu, Abbas maintaining secret channel
Yedioth Ahronoth reveals prime minister, Palestinian president have been engaging in back-channel diplomacy through their representatives in London for several years now
Nahum Barnea
Netanyahu’s headache
Op-ed: As US-brokered negotiations approach their home stretch, prime minister faces a crucial decision
The negotiations brokered by US Secretary of State John Kerry are approaching their home stretch: Kerry will arrive in the region this week with the hopes of getting positive responses to the draft framework agreement between Israel and the Palestinian Authority. The agreement, if achieved, is aimed at leading the two sides towards one solution: Peace and a Palestinian state within the 1967 borders.
The Americans are convinced that Netanyahu has come down from the stand to the field and is in the game. Using an expression from the field of baseball – their favorite sport – he is located between bases: Too late to go back, too early to determine if he will reach the home base. In less sportive terms, the chance that he will go for an agreement is 50%, more or less.
There is no wonder that the prime minister is suffering from headaches these days. There is no wonder that his sinuses are restless. He is facing a crucial decision.
@ yamit82:
my one gut feeling on these talks is that whatever the outcome it was agreed before entering the talks.
US deal will trade off ‘Jewish’ Israel for 1967 lines — report
Palestinian sources tell Saudi daily that negotiators will need to make tough decisions in coming weeks
According to the sources, the mutual recognition will constitute the core of a framework agreement to be signed by the end of January, and negotiated in greater detail during the following months.
“The coming weeks will be difficult for the Palestinian and Israeli sides, since they will need to make tough decisions,” a source told Al-Watan. “On the one hand, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu will need to live with a text speaking of the 1967 borders, and the Palestinians, for their part, will need to live with a text speaking of Israel’s Jewishness.”
yamit82 Said:
an interest in the continuation of talks as opposed to an interest in reaching agreement. The only commitment was to sit for 9 mos. what does everyone get in return for sitting 9 mos in the event of no agreement or a faux agreement(which I believe everyone wants)
Likud sources claim PM ready to negotiate on basis of pre-1967 lines
Netanyahu reported to have changed position, said to see Kerry’s ‘framework’ terms as a basis for talks, TV report claims
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is prepared to continue peace talks for another year on the basis of US Secretary of State John Kerry’s “framework” agreement, which provides for negotiations for Palestinian statehood on the basis of the pre-1967 lines, according to Likud sources quoted by Israel’s Channel 10 news Monday night.
Netanyahu is prepared to view the framework agreement, including the provisions for talks on the basis of the pre-1967 lines, as “a basis for negotiation,” the sources were quoted as saying. The report noted that Netanyahu’s ostensible assent is based on the assumption that neither he nor Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas will be required to actually sign the Kerry framework proposal.
__________________________________________________________________________________
Why am I not shocked or surprised? Yamit
Didn’t take long for BB to cave again.
In rebuff to annexation bill, PM says no to unilateral moves
Day after Jordan Valley plan wins condemnation, Netanyahu says continuation of talks in Israel’s interest
Regev’s bill reportedly runs counter to the US-drafted security proposals for a peace accord, which would allow for an Israeli military presence in the border area between Jordan and the West Bank, but would require that all of Israel’s settlements in the Jordan Valley be dismantled.
CuriousAmerican Said:
Why pay them? there are many individuals, families and groups who can be immediately deported with no pay. truck to the border is all that is needed. Once they are in gaza,, lebanon, syria they need only contact the local UNRWA for money. the key is the transportation to the other side of any hostile border. I dont care what they do next, it is then the other guy’s problem. That’s the beauty of my plan: the arabs, UN and EU get the problem! then once the problem is theirs I GUARANTEE they will dig deep in their pocket to pay. As long as they can plague the Jews with the problem they will all continue.
Sure there will be noise and maybe even sanctions but Israel already has those problems and gets nothing for it. After a while they will transfer their money to resettling the pals rather than maintaining them in place.
@ Bear Klein: thanks for the link. I see 2 problems: one is that since then BB has publicly accepted the 2 state solution so I wonder if he has reduced his plan for Israel.
second
I continue to be disturbed by the abandonment of valid Jewish claims for security reasons. this is now proving to be anathema as the swindlers keep trying to come up with security solutions and will brand Israel recalcitrant for not accepting their “solutions”.
the Jews need a leader whose beginning position is the Jewish claim to Israel.
@ CuriousAmerican:
Let us try this as a hypothetical.
David the Arab export agent says, “Ahmed allan (hello) you want to go to Chile (9:00 A.M.). Ahmed, says vacation in the Andes great you paying David?
David says I will give you $50,000 a visa and free plane ticket this afternoon. Ahmed, says give me the $50,000 now and I will see you at the airport. If I do not show up go without me.
@ bernard ross:
http://www.fmep.org/reports/archive/vol.-7/no.-4/netanyahu-presents-his-allon-plus-final-status-map This were I took the prior quote from.
@ CuriousAmerican:
They want all of Israel you did not get my point. If they were wise they would take what they could get now (they are not wise nor peaceful). I am against any more concessions because I do not believe they want to end the conflict short of them winning all of Israel.
You pay them enough to move to South America and set up a family business so they are self supporting.
@ CuriousAmerican:
Have you ever spent hours with any of the Arabs who live in Israel or the territories (not virtually on line) talking about this? If you had you would know what you propose (or anyone else proposes similar is not real.
I realize this will not deter your belief so I will stop debating it with you as I am wasting my keystrokes.
“This government is being outrageously irresponsible,” MK Nachman Shai (Labor) said. “Instead of promoting the only way to save the State of Israel from becoming a binational state, it is ruining any chance of a treaty and deteriorating us to international isolation.”
Since when would a One-State solution be worse than the two-state solution. I actually prefer Martin Sherman’s solution of financially incentivizing Palestinian emigration and effectively just keep reducing the Arab population between the Jordan and the Mediteranean but when it comes to comparing the so-called Garden of Eden Two State solution with annexation and a One State solution, the One-State solution is far superior. We could absorb some Arab population and maintain a Jewish majority and keep control of the territory. With that said I believe the correct solution could, if we wait it out, be the Jordan is Palestine solution. Everybody seems to think that the One State solution is the weapon that the Palestinians hold over us but, as Eugene Kontorovich points out, the reverse is actually true. They are scared s**tless over that solution. We shouldn’t let it control the playing field.
CuriousAmerican Said:
first, quote me correctly in order to see the answer to your question which you have conveniently and intentionally omitted. Here is the original quote:
bernard ross Said:
Once an individual or group is put across the border they will have to decide what to do with that individual or group: Do they absorb him, do they resettle him, do they try to get Israel to take him back? If they don’t decide to resettle them then their entity will destabilize and be in chaos. They will ask the arabs, the UN, the EU, the churches to help them with money to pay for one of the solutions; but which one. It doesn’t matter to me which one they choose because it will be their problem and they better choose fast because more will be coming to them. They can’t send them back to Israel. I guarantee that when the pals are in their laps and they have no hope of dumping them back in Israels lap I GUARANTEE THAT ALL OF THEM WILL HAPPILY CHIP IN AND PAY AT THE REQUEST OF THE DESTABILIZED ENTITIES. Once an individual crosses the border with no hope of returning, with no hope of making them a problem for Israel: they will miraculously pay and solve the problem permanently like every other prior refugee. The key to them paying is that they are in their laps. Just a short distance away and all is solved. Start with a few hundred terrorists. Instead of releasing them deport them to gaza. Pick up some fatah members and ship them to gaza to fight hamas. It is a flexible solution. the only necessity is the Isralis accepting it. there is no other obstruction that will work. NO country will declare war that is not already at war and if they do it will accelerate the transfers. the same with sanctions, if the eu puts sanctions then accelerate transfers and destabilize the neighbors. Look how wonderfully hte neighbors have been destabilized already. They will not want that as the terrorists will bomb in the EU because they can’t bomb Israel. Why should Israel convince and pay individuals when they can put them in a truck and dump them across the border on a one-one basis or en masse?
The only weapon against the Jews is the jews willingness to accept the advice of suicide from the international community. Start dumping them and start settling YS. It is completely doable once Israeli leadership stops scaring the Israeli public and starts educating them to the reality of world swindles and libels of the Jews and Israel. Once I learned the truth my capacity for coexistence and peace diminished to zero. Before that I believed the BS fed to the Jews, like CA delivers here.
the only reason the pals are discussed here is because they are in Israel. this is the apProach you use here: what will you do with these pals, will you give them citizenship, what will you do you Jews; you must do something that the world will accept or they will get angry, give sanctions declare war on you jews. PAY THEM JEWS, PAY THEM!!!
Gaza, lebanon, syria will have to decide what to do with an individual or a group.
@ honeybee:
What are you telling me?
If you put yourself in the mind of the Arab, then you would know that they want to be a sovereign nation, not an autonomous reservation.
The deal that Israel is offering to the Arabs has two seemingly contradictory elements
1) The deal is terrible for the Jews
2) The deal is terrible for the Arabs
Any offer that Israel could safely make is far less than the Arabs would accept.
The minimum any Arab would accept is far more than Israel would give.
Netanyahu’s offer is NOT generous, but it is still far more than Israel should concede.
Israel wants to retain control of
1) Borders
2) Who goes in and out of Palestinians areas (the Palestinian birth registry)
3) airspace
4) natural resources
5) water
6) electromagnetic spectrum
7) reserves the right to enter with IDF forces
All of this is necessary for Israel’s security; but would efectively mean NO sovereignty for the Palestinians, which is what the Arabs want.
Yet, even what little Israel is giving is still far more than Israel should give.
It is not generous.
There is no happy answer.
This is why I recommend compensated relocation
And how will you guarantee that?
In the end, I really do not care who pays … but I know the Arabs will NOT pay. Neither will the Churches. Nor will bankrupt Europe.
But if you can get the Saudis to pay … more power to you. You might get some Evangelicals to chip in some money.
Once Judea and Samaria are Arab free, the Arab world will lose heart.
Whoever pays … that would be worth it.
CuriousAmerican Said:
I guarantee that every transferred individual or group will be paid for by the UN, EU, Arabs, Churches, etc. once they are transferred. this is because not paying will be worse for them. the pals are only a tool to harass the jews, once gone it becomes a useless tool and a danger to everyone else
Bear Klein Said:
I agree, and also I don’t believe the Pal hierarchy wants a solution becuase they will loose their corrupt perks. they would have to be individually benefiting. I think they want the status quo but want gaza back with fatah to get back the lost perks.
It is not impossible that this is a show from both sides and that the outcome was predetermined, whether a walk away or an interim deal. PA sources published a similar deal as already accepted last spring. I just cant relocate the link again.