ALL THE MORE REASON TO EMBRACE THE LEVY REPORT
Jerusalem rejects ‘biased’ Human Rights Council finding that West Bank Jewish communities are illegal
TIMES OF ISRAEL January 31, 2013, 2:36 pm 4
JTA — A United Nations investigation into the impact of Jewish West Bank settlements on the Palestinian population said that Israel should immediately begin to withdraw all settlers from the territory.
The report issued Thursday by the UN Human Rights Council based in Geneva said that settlement violate the 1949 Geneva Conventions and that failure to withdraw could lead to a finding of war crimes at the International Criminal Court.
The Palestinians have threatened to take Israel to the ICC since the Palestinian Authority was recognized as having non-member state status in the General Assembly in November.
The Human Rights Council’s investigation began last March. Israel did not cooperate with the investigation, including barring investigators from entering the territory, saying that the council is biased against the Jewish state. The council has issued more resolutions regarding Israeli human rights violations than any country.
The report said that Israel “must, in compliance with article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention, cease all settlement activities without preconditions. It must immediately initiate a process of withdrawal of all settlers from the OPT,” or Occupied Palestinian Territories.
Investigators interviewed about 50 Palestinians in Jordan in order to prepare the report. The report said that the Palestinians were prevented by the settlements from reaching their farming lands and water resources.
The report estimated that 520,000 settlers live in the West Bank and eastern Jerusalem in some 250 settlements.
This, according to the report, “prevents the establishment of a contiguous and viable Palestinian state and undermines the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination.”
Israel’s Foreign Ministry rejected the report, calling it “counterproductive.” The report “will only hamper efforts to find a sustainable solution to the Israel-Palestinian conflict,” the ministry said in a statement.
“The only way to resolve all pending issues between Israel and the Palestinians, including the settlements issue, is through direct negotiations without pre-conditions,” the ministry said. .
“The Human Rights Council has sadly distinguished itself by its systematical, one-sided and biased approach towards Israel. This latest report is yet another unfortunate reminder of such approach,” the ministry concluded.
@ Marjorie Stamm Rosenfeld:
!
Trust me Marjorie treadies arn’t worth the paper they written on. Sand Creek
the phoenix Said:
I agree, especially the bold. My concern is not for the Jews who already are for seizing YS, but for those sitting on the fence and those operating out of ignorance. To me, any tactic, strategy or argument which unites the Jews to desire YS is valid and should be undertaken. Other than the naturei karta types, it appears to me that most on the fence in Israel are secular or non religious Jews. It appears that historic connections and Jewish law are not enough to motivate them or they believe that common law gives the pals the moral or legal rights to the land. these jews may still be motivated by education and information but many who are already for YS do not feel that this is the right approach. I have the feeling that the idea is that a jew must be motivated to claim YS only by the jewish law. Perhaps it is seen as a matter of fidelity to Hashem. It appears to me that these interpretations keep jews disunited. I note that there are orthodox jews who claim that aliya is G_d”s commandment to be undertaken now and other orthodox Jews who claim that a Jewish state is a sin and aliya is premature. I think they are both reading the same torah.
Bernard Ross Said:
i will edit a comment i have made on another thread that i believe will best explain my position/beliefs:
when it comes to VISCERAL ANTISEMITISM, you can come with facts and charts and red markers and legal texts to the kazzoo and it will be all for naught.
fwiw, i have always maintained that it is TOTALLY IRRELEVANT what the opposition/enemy thinks or does.
what matters is what WE DO.
and we are NOT in an ATTACK mode but an EXPLANATORY/APPOLOGETIC/PATHETIC mode.
THAT is the problem!
we must create facts on the ground, (build baby build!!! expell baby expell!!!) and TO HELL with anybody’s oppinion
but for that to occur… (and THIS is the most difficult part) the JEWS must actually BELIEVE in their cause…
the legal/educational/hasbara efforts, should be directed imho towards THE JEWS and not waste time and treasure on immutable antisemites.
the format should be:
“did you know that….”
i cannot say it better than what feiglin was pointing out to be as the #1 problem:
the jew stopped believing that HE IS RIGHT and THIS LAND IS THE LAND OF THE JEWS!
(“In the mid-90s (the Oslo era) Israel’s “This is our land” mentality switched to “This is their land”. )
@ yamit82:
A wandering eye
@ the phoenix:
They look ominous, the Christians in your video!
phoenix, the song they sing was a big hit of the band Metallica, and it was a love song (nothing else matters), dedicated to a girlfriend, nothing to do with Christians.
That’s the original video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tj75Arhq5ho
dionissis mitropoulos Said:
dionissis, could it be that you got them mixed up?
i have RIGHT HERE a picture of the american IN ACTION (with his friends)
he IS a drummer indeed, but you got the band wrong
here they are with their chants and rituals…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZK6rpbxth9w
🙂
@ yamit82:
yamit82 Said:
I liked two expressions he used:
“martyr to a motion not my own”
“These old bones live to learn her wanton ways”
A resigned despair towards the inevitable passage of time, i think he caught the sentiment well in these two expressions.
My sources informed me of the true identity of Curious American: he is a drummer in the band Stryper, a Christian heavy metal band. Their big hit is one with the original title To Hell With The Jews, but they had to change it to To Hell with The Devil due to the machinations of the Learned Elders of Zion (they smeared the band and Curious American with accusations of anti-Semitism, like they did to Hagel).
Anyway, the song made it to the top charts even with the less truthful title, and here it is. Enjoy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KubgMDSMXfI
(Our Curio is the drummer, you only need to watch the first 50 seconds of the song to get a good look of him)
Speak of the
JewdevilHe’s no friend of mine
To turn from him is what we have in mind
Just a liar and a thief
The word tells us so
We like to let him know
Where he can go
[Chorus]
To hell with the
JewdevilTo hell with the devil
When things are going wrong
You know who to blame
He will always live
Up to his name
He’s never been the answer
There’s a better way
We are here to rock you
And to say…
@ Bernard Ross:
a href=”#comment-265915″ title=”Go to comment of this author”>Marjorie Stamm Rosenfeld
One Truth and Not Two
by Uri Zvi Greenberg
(interpreted from Hebrew by Laurence Cramer)
Your Rabbis taught: A land is bought with money
You buy the land and work it with a hoe.
And I say: A land is not bought with money
And with a hoe you also dig and bury the dead.
And I say: A land is conquered with blood.
And only when conquered with blood is hallowed to the people
With the holiness of the blood.
And only one who follows after the cannon in the field,
Thus wins the right to follow after his good plow
On this, the field that was conquered.
And only such a field gives nourishing and healthy bread
And the house which arises on its hill is truly a fortress and a temple,
Because in this field there is honorable blood.
Your Rabbis taught: The messiah will come in future generations:
And Judea will arise without fire and without blood.
It will arise with every tree, with every additional house.
And I say: If your generation will be slow
And will not grasp in its hands and forcibly mold its future
And in fire will not come with the Shield of David
And in blood will not come with its horses saddled –
The Messiah will not come even in a far off generation.
Judea will not arise.
And you will be living slaves to every foreign ruler.
Your houses will be straw for the sparks of every wicked one.
And your trees will be cut down with their ripe fruit.
And a man will react the same as a babe
To the sword of the enemy –
And only your ramblings will remain – yours…
And your statue, an eternal curse.
Your Rabbis taught: There is one truth for the nations:
Blood for blood – but it is not a truth for Jews.
And I say: There is one truth and not two.
As there is one sun and as there are not two Jerusalems.
It was written in the Law of Conquest of Moses and Joshua
Until the last of my kings and my traitors have consumed.
And there will be a day when from the river of Egypt until the Euphrates
And from the sea until the mountain passes of Moav my boys will go up
And they will call my enemies and my haters to the last battle.
And the blood will decide: Who is the only ruler here.
Marjorie Stamm Rosenfeld Said:
IMO
Too cerebral for me and If you ask me he writes and sounds like any dirty old man, lusting after young flesh. It’s not just that he is old he is also ugly in and out and one could say even repulsive.
This is more my genre:
Like A Woman
by Uri Zvi Greenberg
Like a woman who knows that her body entices me,
G-d taunts me, Flee if you can! But I can’t flee,
For when I turn away from him, angry and heartsick,
With a vow on my lips, like a burning coal:
I will not see him again –
I can’t do it, I turn back
And knock on his door,
Tortured with longing
As though he sent me a love letter.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
The Great Sad One
by Uri Zvi Greenberg
The Almighty has dealt bitterly with me
That I did not believe him until my punishment,
Till he welled up in my tears, from the midst of my wounds.
And behold he is very lonely,
And he also lacks someone to confess to,
In whose arms he might sob his unbearable misery,
And this G-d walks about, without a body, without blood,
And his grief is double the grief of flesh,
Flesh that can warm another body of a third,
That can sit and smoke a cigarette
And drink coffee and wine,
And sleep and dream until the sun —
For him it is impossible for he is G-d.
Bernard Ross Said:
😛
@ Bernard Ross:
Hmmm I swear I heard this VERY SAME line made by the curious american on another thread in one of our friendly chit chats….
😉
dweller Said:
Given your past record in touching upon gay issues, wouldn’t it be more wise to refrain from the task? 😉
yamit82 Said:
the Lord works in mysterious, and amusing, ways. 🙂
dweller Said:
You wrote all this BS so as to prove that you didn’t mean i am gay?
Since you have devoted time thinking about me (nothing naughty, i hope :P), you could have googled my first name and see that it is the standard modern Greek male name.
And the pronoun is not an “anchor”, it’s standard feminist practice to reversely discriminate by using “she” instead of “he” – i use the convention on ideological reasons, but it also has good impact in talking to the anti-Israel crowd in lefty blogs, “not just gay or bisexual, feminist too, ok, not your usual Zio-supremacist”.
But why are we having this discussion? We both know that you meant gay.
dionissis mitropoulos Said:
must be some of that manna from heaven, gems of wisdom, I hear so much about.
dionissis mitropoulos Said:
No, he is just writing his next thesis and wants this important work to be perfect. 🙂 (I love these emoticons)
dionissis mitropoulos Said:
Amateur psychology (psychobabble)is the recurring sanctimony.
dionissis mitropoulos Said:
It has always sounded rude to me.
dweller Said:
Didn’t it cross your mind that everyone in Israpundit would interpret it as “gay”?
dionissis mitropoulos Dweller Said:
You gotta love the dramatic license, the imagery, what a performance!
dionissis mitropoulos Said:
Its always nice to know what someone really thinks about you (I don’t think its a joke)
dweller Said:
dweller Said:
You accidentally posted both the draft and the end product of your comment #12.
What would you have gone for, the first or the second? Probably the second, it’s in the part which is heavily italicized.
Why did you leave out the “personae”? Has Bernard succeeded in intimidating you with allegations of pompousness?
dionissis mitropoulos Said:
HMMM??? the aha moment! Where have I seen this comment before?? Join the club dionissis, the club of those who are accused of “getting off on their anger” when someone is losing their argument but is just not man enough to be honest. Next we will hear how it “says more about you than about him”. 🙂
@ Bernard Ross:
Yes, Japan signed the San Remo Resolution but was also a member of the League of Nations. I made a mistake with Japan. Japan didn’t resign from the League until 1933 so would also have been in on the confirmation of the Mandate for Palestine.
dweller Said:
Come on now, dweller!
You know exactly when the thread expires, and you have probably already planned your parting comment, and the timing of its deliverance – at a time that i won’t have time to reply.
But wherever you go, i’ll find you 😛
the phoenix Said:
I am increasingly coming to the conclusion that the market for jewish legal settlement rights among Israeli jews is surprisingly small, as Yamit states. The religious for YS appear to consider law and PR to be unworthy as a tactic to convince other jews or to employ against the enemy and the secular for YS appear to consider it futile due to the anti zionists in GOI and internationally. Without enough Israeli support I dont think it can work as currently understood because more people are needed to become grass roots.. The only other approach is that available to a small minority right away through the courts which would have to come through individual jews or jewish organizations and funded by individuals with deep pockets who believe in the jewish right as separate from the state of Israel. In other words I think it has to begin with a legal battle on behalf of a minority separate from the state and suing the GOI as well as foreign govts. This would require a settler organization or a diaspora organization formed for settlement of YS who seeks to compel GOI to allow settlement, even to take Israel to ICC to allow settlement of YS under the mandate, etc. Perhaps Peace now never did this because they would lose. The problem is logically speaking that if Israel as the occupier does not protect jewish settlers it should give up its representation of global jewry and its occupation of YS and a new mandate trustee/administrator should be appointed by the UN to enforce the law and jewish rights. This is topsy turvy and shows how absurd it has all become but appears to me the logical outcome of existing law in the current situation. therefore, everyone, for individual reasons is agreeing to suspend law.
dweller Said:
Which of the two is the gay? 😛
@ dweller
dweller Said:
You were wrong in thinking that i am gay and you were wrong in thinking that you could announce it.
Even now, you stick to your ego, you don’t want to admit how inept you proved to be in “sensing” things.
F@ck you, too, dweller 😛
@ dweller
dweller Said:
dweller, after your miscalculation with me, i am not anymore surprised at how much you get things wrong in the psychology department.
If you can’t get right even such an obvious truth about me such as that i hate the feeling of anger, and that i do almost anything to avoid it, then you should steer clear from attempting to get insights of me.
And stop the sanctimoniousness, it sounds rude when it comes from the offender.
dweller Said:
No doubt. You know many things, but your specialty is helping gays getting out of the closet.
By the way, my comment was sarcastic, and intended to highlight your presumptuousness in outing an alleged gay – me.
@ dweller
dweller Said:
Can you imagine how it sounds to me getting now a piece of advise from you? And in such a sanctimonious tone?
But, at least, i found out where your rationality had gone when you needed it before calling me gay:
In Mikonos, the gay Greek island 😛
@ dionissis mitropoulos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ5ICXMC4xY
@ dionissis mitropoulos:
No fear of that.
I know the Source of strength.
And now you’re no longer just angry (trouble enough, of itself)
— you’re enjoying your anger.
Even if I were wrong — DEAD wrong, from start to finish (and I’m not, but even if I were) — there’s no way in hell that it would avail you to take on this way.
As gushingly adoring as you were before, you are now just as twisted in knots, with blood in your eye.
NEITHER of those personae is — or was — you.
Looks like I’ll have to finish this tomorrow (if the thread is still in play).@ dionissis mitropoulos:
No fear of that.
I know the Source of strength.
And now you’re no longer just angry (trouble enough, of itself)
— you’re enjoying your anger.
Even if I were wrong — dead wrong, from start to finish (and I’m not, but even if I were) — there’s no way in hell that it would avail you to take on this way.
As gushingly adoring as you were before, you are now just as twisted in knots, with blood in your eye.
NEITHER of them is — or was — you.
Looks like I’ll have to finish this tomorrow (if the thread is still in play).
dweller Said:
I don’t believe that you are frank and you can take your due respect and stick it you know where.
My impatience and my anger were your creation, and if they didn’t help it’s because you should have though it twice before indulging in your power games with me as the victim.
@ dweller
dweller Said:
What a surprise!
After you announced on my behalf that i am gay everything should have flowed. Yet it didn’t.
Don’t be hard on yourself dweller, you are still a great soul-reader – but you knew that already, didn’t you? 😛
Occasional blunders are just that, blunders – my blunders, you couldn’t possibly be in error.
I know you were trying to help, you are so full of good intentions – nothing to do with patronage or competition or self-damage control.
@ dweller
dweller Said:
Are you obscuring things on purpose?
Your bomb was your comment about me being gay.
And now you say that you wrote it so as to show that you are not ignoring my questions. But i have not asked you any questions before this comment. The questions i asked you came after this comment. The comment prompted my questions.
Are you really on Prozak or are you just trying to evade?
dweller Said:
Just don’t let your strength get the best of you.
It might make you want to play God.
Bernard Ross Said:
good one, you could also include backstep as well.
Honey Bee Said:
Should I put the whacking on my resume? Not a cowboy, maybe a wandering jew.
@ dionissis mitropoulos:
No bomb. I made the comment after seeing several posts (betw yourself & Bernard, I think) where it seemed like things were getting out of hand. I knew I’d be offline for a while — and I thought I ought to at least lay down a marker of sorts, to let you know I wasn’t ignoring you over your questions (in re my throwaway line about “demanding women”). Obviously, it didn’t help; just complicated matters further. But frankly, and with all due respect, your impatience — and the anger at the core of it — didn’t help either.
Anger only guarantees that your usual rationality will take a vacation just when it’s most needed.
No. Female identity could’ve meant you’re a woman (literally); I didn’t — and don’t — know.
But it occurred to me a while back that you might be a woman. Generally I don’t pursue these matters, as I find them irrelevant distractions; an exchange is an exchange. Online these things aren’t always clear anyway (see the old comments I posted on the previous comments page).
E.G. — The spelling of your first name [English spelling obviously] is not such as I’d ever seen it before.
When I see “Dion-issis,” I’m inclined to wonder, ‘am I seeing the feminine form of Dionysos, like Michelle or Micheline for Michael, or Jeannette for John?’
On numerous occasions when you’ve used personal pronouns generally (especially in the subjunctive), you’ve opted for “she” & “her” over the more common “he” & “him” when used generically.
I said nothing, but that did suggest to me possibly a woman who prefers a literary persona bearing the presumption of maleness (think: George Eliot, as I once suggested light-heartedly) — for the sake of being taken seriously without the clutter of gender baggage
— yet still using the aforenoted female pronouns as a matter of setting out an occasional anchor. There have been several such indications that suggested this to me, these are but a couple. ‘Homosexuality,’ OTOH, is another matter entirely. I’ll have to take that up separately.
University library closes early on Fri & Sat, so I’ve got to get out of here now. PUBLIC library is open for half-an-hour longer on Fri, so I’ll try to pursue the rest of your post if I can get there quickly. Mostly I’m concerned that this thread will close down before I can finish addressing your concerns.
dweller Said:
Is this the two step or the side step? 🙂
#6 reply to yamit in moderation. the moderation never ends.
yamit82 Said:
I have been talking this for a long time. IN fact, the more Israel siezes its right the more the diaspora will suffer.
yamit82 Said:
didn’t you come from the diaspora? Without the support of the diaspora I do not believe Israel would have survived. I think there are many ways in which Israel needs and uses the diaspora for a while into the future and especially in conflict.
yamit82 Said:
I have never liked european judaica, inc yiddish. when I hear yiddish I hear germanic slavery, when I see the black hats, black coats and peyas I see the european ghettos. My father was a kindertransport and his parents survived hiding in belgium and by miracle were reunited after. They were from Poland and then germany when my grandather turned 19. Yiddish is all that was spoken but I heard german instead. It is silly because jews made great achieveents in europe that must be remembered.
yamit82 Said:
I think there was a screwing but without choice, being under duress.
@ dweller:
dweller Said:
By now you should have noticed that i am more concerned with barbs directed at me.
And i did not endorse your alleged homosexuality, i said that i don’t know.
I will stay noncommittal.
dweller Said:
You couldn’t tell one from the other. Re: you I have no wishes, you don’t occupy a pico second of my thought outside of this blog and as for my beliefs re: You I really believe you are what Christians attribute to Satan, not the real Jewish Satan but the pagan mythical version. That’s you played by Al Pacino. Seriously I do think you require and are currently under a psychiatrists care apparently you are not in a closed ward they allow you limited internet access almost daily.
I have long detected the behavior in you of a Prozac user!!! 😛
Bernard Ross Said:
No it means that regardless of the political will of any current past or future government the Israeli people are not planning on being any place but here in Israel and when called upon have answered to a man and woman the call to defend our small enclave against all foreign enemies.
That’s our majority and our strength not the Bullshit Balfour and League of Nations. We didn’t get screwed we agreed to accept consequences we had little control over and opted to take what could, in their minds be had at that time. Going to Law was never a consideration to redress that which was relinquished without much opposition or power to prevent.
The opportunity to invoke and exercise our right of conquest came after 67. Misreading the Arab Mind then and now has led our leaders to make the wrong conclusions and critical errors in judgement and has had led to over 45 years of waste and misdirected priorities.
It will take another major war to correct our past mistakes and faulty assumptions put right.
The way of Jewish history is that their is always the cure before the disease and the solution to our problems if we take a different course.
I don’t belittle our problems here in Israel and I am a vocal critic of our government and PM, but compared to your problems as Jews in America/Canada and Europe they are minor. We will somehow overcome and solve most of our critical ones but your Jewish problems are terminally unsolvable.
Western Jews outside of Israel will not risk their lives over cultural Judaica Bagels and Lox and Fiddler on the Roof.
You are as Jews and the Jewish collective pretty much a historical anachronism.
@ dionissis mitropoulos:
By now you should’ve noticed that his barbs invariably reflect his wishes more than his beliefs.
I am now being repeatedly hit by the spammer(lost in cyberspace)
@ yamit82:
It would be hard to conclude otherwise; the posting record is clear.
Oxymoron.
A non-Jew is no more capable of ‘objectivity’ in such matters than a Jew.
In any case, any Jew worthy of the name, and who knows anything of Jewish history
— knows better (better, in fact, than anybody else in this world ) to be playing the numbers game. . . .
You say you by AMBITION. As I’ve said — numerous times — you’re a power-tripper.
— It’s perhaps the most potent reason that you’re not to be TRUSTED with power.
My thanks for your opinion.
— You do know what they say about opinions? They’re like assholes: everybody’s got one (and some of us even ARE one).
God knows who is a Jew, and who isn’t; I’m satisfied with that.
The only thing that’s ‘wrong’ with me at the back of your grubby little heart, Yamit, is the fact that I’m stronger than you are.
— THAT, from your perspective, is absolutely unforgivable. Everything else is strictly window-dressing, and we both know it.
As for my “understanding of Judaism and Jewish knowledge,” you know clearly NOTHING of what I do or don’t know of the subject, Yamit, and you prove it daily.
You aren’t a believer; you’re a partisan. Big difference. (Massive difference.)
@ dionissis mitropoulos:
Efharisto!
😉