T. Belman. Many thought it was unrealistic to suggest allowing 2 million Palestinians to immigrate to the West. Yet here we are 9 months later and the West is well on its way to accepting 2 million Muslim migrants. But if America wanted they could back an autonomy plan in Area A and B or a federation of these areas with Jordan.
The problem has always been that the US has tried to give the Arabs what they want which requires them to ignore reality, Israel’s rights and history as the Arabs do.
By Ted Belman (American Thinker published this article on April 2/15 and received 250 comments.)
Dennis Ross and David Makovsky in Israel’s Drive Toward Self-Destruction, argue that Netanyahu must offer up hope to Palestinians or face a revived de-legitimization movement. They’re certainly right to point out that the delegitimation movement will grow, but they are wrong to suggest that the answer is for Israel to offer hope to the Palestinians. How facile is that? They argue that what Israel needs to do is begin capitulating even before the negotiations commence, let alone, conclude. They want Israel to give up its bargaining chips for nothing in return.
The Palestinians don’t hope to be given a state, they hope to destroy a state, namely Israel.
It’s not Israel that needs to prove its bona fides, it’s the Palestinians that need to.
The problem with the Ross/Makovsky recommendations is that they are put forward to achieve a pre-ordained (at least by the international community) solution, namely two states for two people based on the ’67 lines plus swaps, a divided Jerusalem and “just solution” for the Palestinian refugees, of which there are few (60,000), and their descendants. Whatever happened to all matters must be negotiated? Also, the law doesn’t require them to go back to the ’67 lines but Obama does.
And the recommendations ignores the many threats to Israel along its borders. Ross and Makovsky assume that these threats will eventually evaporate but offer no arguments why this will be so. Yet they want Israel to put herself in jeopardy by offering “hope”. The greatest of these threats, Iran, is now becoming greater due to the deal being negotiated by the Obama administration that will, in Netanyahu’s words, pave the way to them getting the bomb.
On March 31/15, the Times of Israel, reported, Iran militia chief: Destroying Israel is ‘nonnegotiable’
“The commander of the Basij militia of Iran’s Revolutionary Guards said that “erasing Israel off the map” is ‘nonnegotiable,’ according to an Israel Radio report Tuesday.
“In 2014, Naqdi said Iran was stepping up efforts to arm West Bank Palestinians for battle against Israel, adding the move would lead to Israel’s annihilation, Iran’s Fars news agency reported.
“’Arming the West Bank has started and weapons will be supplied to the people of this region,’ Naqdi said.
“’The Zionists should know that the next war won’t be confined to the present borders and the Mujahedeen will push them back,’ he added. Naqdi claimed that much of Hamas’s arsenal, training and technical knowhow in the summer conflict with Israel was supplied by Iran.”
There is a major war looming, aided and abetted by the Obama administration, yet Ross and Makovsky ignore Israel’s reality and peril.
Israel National News reports on April 1/15, IDF Scenario for Next Hezbollah War: 1,500 Missiles Per Day
“Army updates estimates for damages in possible northern war, expects dozens or hundreds of lives lost per day.
“IDF experts estimate that the number of missiles to hit northern Israel on a given day would be 1,000-1,500, and the number of people killed daily will be in double or even triple digits.
Of course Obama’s new bedmate, Iran, is responsible for providing Hezbollah with an enormous arsenal of rockets, reputed to exceed 60,000 rockets, with which to wreak havoc on Israel. Ross and Makovsky make no mention of this threat.
Furthermore, the international community is responsible for the lack of a solution because it keeps supporting the weaker side. Normally, a labor dispute in which the workers have struck, is settled when one side decides to compromise their demands because of economic necessity. In the “peace process” the Palestinians are supported at every turn, both politically and financially, and are held blameless. So they have no reason or necessity to compromise. In fact the status quo is just fine for them, thank you very much.
This support has thwarted the intent of the Oslo Accords. Rabin once said that the Palestinians would have to bend to the will of Israel because Israel is the stronger party and holds all the cards or something to that effect. What he did not factor in, was that the international community would bolster the Palestinians, making a settlement impossible.
So my first recommendation would be to set aside the pre-ordained solution. Instead, let the only parameter be UNSC Res 242. Forget about the Arab Peace Initiative. It has no legitimacy.
Secondly, leave the parties to their own devices. Stop supporting the Palestinians financially or politically.
Thirdly, UNWRA should be done away with and all so called refugees should be resettled like all refugees are resettled. UNGA Resolution 393 provides for this.
” 4. Considers that, without prejudice to the provisions of paragraph 11 of General Assembly resolution 194 (III) of 11 December 1948, the reintegration of the refugees into the economic life of the Near East, either by repatriation or resettlement, is essential in preparation for the time when international assistance is no longer available, and for the realization of conditions of peace and stability in the area”
Thus it recommends “reintegration of the refugees into the economic life of the Near East either by repatriation or resettlement”. There is no reason why these “refugees” can’t also be resettled throughout the world just as the Syrian refugees are being resettled. Or just normalize them where they are by giving them citizenship. If the host countries refuse to do this then they must be resettled in countries that will. It would help considerably if the standard definition of what a refugee is, be applied rather than to consider their descendants as refugees also.
I should point out that the “right of return” derives from Res 194, which, like all UNGA resolutions is a recommendation only.
The world community, by maintaining the refugee status of these people, is contributing to the impasse in the “peace process”. By maintaining the “right of return” they are adding to the insolubles.
Fourthly, support the emigration of Palestinians from Judea and Samaria and from Gaza, (rather than rebuilding Gaza). There are currently about 3.5 million Arabs living there. If the world would absorb 2 million of them, Israel would extend its sovereignty over these lands and offer citizenship or autonomy to the remaining Arabs. Thus the conflict would be over.
In summary, if the west wants to end the conflict, it should resettle the “refugees” and absorb 2 million Palestinians. It’s that easy.
Instead, Ross and Makovsky prefer to demand Israel, at her peril, accept the deal that the world, with US leadership, has pre-ordained. Israel isn’t about to do so.
Ironically, just as Obama is reconsidering his options on how to impose a solution, support for a “two-state solution” is less popular in the United States than it has been in at least two decades. This according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll.
@ Eric R.:
I am the President and founder of ,” My Liberal Relatives won’t speak to me anymore”.
honeybee Said:
You don’t have to “think” it. It’s a fact. My sister is one of those lefty Manhattanites, and yes, politics has left our personal relationship badly damaged for many years.
@ Eric R.:
Sometime I think that Christians in Texas are more pro-Israel then denizens of Manhattan.
honeybee Said:
And most of our universities.
I really like a), b), and c).
@ Eric R.:
Don’t forget Hollywood.
My ME peace plan in four easy steps:
a) Nuke Gaza
b) Nuke Southern Lebanon
c) Nuke Tehran (before they get the bomb)
d) Turn to the Fatah in Ramallah and then ask them “Any questions?”
babushka Said:
No, Felix Quigely is
Wonderful to read this bon mot while eating brunch. Thanks, Arnold.
@ yamit82:
Such appalling treachery! You used to claim that I was the most obtuse naive ignoramus on this site.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZ5ld-MlKcM
@ yamit82:
So now you’re into comparing yourself with George Orwell, George Eliot, Mark Twain, Moliere, Isaac Asimov, Romain Gary, Voltaire, and even pathetic little Woody Allen. You certainly have one of the more active imaginations I have ever encountered.
You also are characterized by — and possibly hobbled by — a vile and foul-mouthed temper. Which renders it difficult, if not possible, for other persons to argue with you without engaging in verbal mud-slinging.
The bottom line for me is just this: I respond in print to matters that lie within the scope of my interests, and I do so based on what I think, irrespective of what anyone else may think.
Because just as nobody can digest a meal through someone else’s stomach, at least not without swallowing vomit, I choose not to permit anyone else, even those who are a far sight more polite, then I have found you to be, and possibly better psychologically balanced, to do my thinking for me. Which means I will, if and when I choose, take your opinion into account, but only that far and no further.
Nor shall I allow you or anyone else to cause me to lose my temper and to let the results of such intemperance be reflected in my comments.
Arnold Harris
Mount Horeb WI
ArnoldHarris Said:
Your comment has nothing to do with points I made…According to your simplistic purest POV you must be a total illiterate as you would not have read any work of literature, poetry or philosophy penned under a pseudonym.
Here is a very short list of examples…:)
Pen name …….Realname
Émile Ajar _______________ Romain Gary
Woody Allen ___________Allen Stewart Konigsberg
Voltaire______________ François-Marie Arouet
Theo LeSieg __________ Dr. Seuss
Paul French ___________Isaac Asimov
Newt Scamander_________J. K. Rowling
N. W. Clerk____________ C. S. Lewis
Molière ________Jean Baptiste Poquelin
Mary Westmacott________ Agatha Christie
Mark Twain _________Samuel Langhorne Clemens
George Eliot________ Mary Ann Evans
George Orwell________ Eric Arthur Blair
@ honeybee:
Good to know that Lyndon Bird did all that for y’all. But how did the marijuana crop get harvested and brought to market when all that South Texas had were hardscrabble dirt roads?
Arnold Harris
Mount Horeb WI
@ ArnoldHarris:
No, he is revered in South Texas because he brought in lextricity and farm to market roads.
@ ArnoldHarris:
Thanks, HB. I wonder if any of you Texicans ever call him “Lyndon Bird” or “Big Beagle”.
Arnold Harris
Mount Horeb WI
@ yamit82:
My real name is Arnold Harris. I was born in Chicago Lying-In Hospital in Chicago’s Hyde Park neighborhood on April 2, 1934. My father was Max Harris and my mother was Amelia Jacobson Harris. He was born in Davenport, Iowa in August 1892, and she was born in Barrow-in-Furness, Great Britain in December 1906. My grandfather was born in some shtetl in the western part of the Russian Empire in 1867, and emigrated to the USA while he was still a kid. At least I think that was so, because he spoke perfect upper Midwestern English with no foreign inflections whatsoever. His name was David Harris. But it must have been something other than that where and when he was born. Maybe Hirsch, which is what some of the Israelis thought when I asked them about it. His wife, my grandmother, was Fanya Harkovy Harris, and her family were some well-known Jewish book publishers.
So whatever the hell else do you want to know about me?
Am I naïve? Maybe. I assume everything that people tell me is the truth, until I have reason to think otherwise. And most people are too lazy to scheme up elaborate lies. An exception here would be Iranians, whom I understand lie routinely, to others and probably also to themselves, and maybe they believe their own bullshit. But that’s their problem, not mine.
———————–
You know, Yamit, part of your comment here causes me to remember a hard-core practicing Jewish businessman I met in Chicago a few months before my wife and I traveled to Israel by way for former Jugoslavija in early 1973. That man was one of these strongly observant Jews who wanted all other Jews to know how pious and mitzvot-laden he was. He invited Stefi and me to one of his Shabat suppers at his home, and we went through the whole load with him.
Some days later, I ran across him in downtown Chicago. He looked the same, except something was missing, and that was the kipa he wore everywhere and conspicuously around his house. I asked him why he wasn’t wearing it in downtown Chicago. He said:
“For business reasons”.
That was the last time I ever talked with him.
But I laugh every time I remember him.
Arnold Harris
Mount Horeb WI
@ ArnoldHarris:
LBJ was a ” yellow dog Demycrate” !!! A Blessed Passover to you and yours yawl.
@ honeybee:
How could you embarrass Texas other than by doing something self-destructive like voting Democrat, then telling the world about it?
So anyway, you are Dvora, or Deborah, or Debbie, or just plain Deb. But Honybee is your moniker of choice, and that’s what I’ll call you until you proclaim otherwise.
Now, about Felix Quigley, or Ireland. He says that’s his name, and that’s what’s on his blogsite. So who am I to argue about any of that?
Anyway, HB, I hope you are had a nice Pesach first night seder yesterday, and that you got a goodly supply of chametz-free edibles to last you for eight days. My wife Stefi actually makes a Shabat dinner every Friday, if we are at home, complete with the two candles, and the Hebrew prayers for HaShem’s gift of the wine, the commandment to wash our hands, and the two identical loaves of bread.
Arnold Harris
Mount Horeb WI
ArnoldHarris Said:
How do you know that is his “given name”. I sign with my given first name. It is the English translation of the Hebrew. I don’t use my ” last name” because that would expose TX to the ridicule of the World.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F112HJOknqU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkQCQvMTFiY
ArnoldHarris Said:
Arnold you are the most obtuse naive ignoramus on this site. You cannot know if any given name is their real name nor can you know if they are male female dogs, cats or[ ‘jackasses’]. Using screen names allows the commenter to be able to speak rather freely and openly without reservations and without fear of repercussions. Giveme your real name and place of residence in 10 min I will have your whole life’s history. Some people apparently not you value their privacy. Their are a lot of crazies out there not to mention your own government. That you could care less re: to what I have related is your concern….You don’t care about yourself or your wife then you might consider the welfare and health of your children and grandchildren. Oh I forgot you got guns, but you are not the only one your potential enemies got guns too. BTW Felix don’t live in Ireland he is a wanted Felon and is hiding out in Spain.
Trotsky was a monster only surpassed by Stalin. Literally killed his own parents and refused to help them.
Jews of Russia used to say “Trotsky makes the revolutions, and the Bronsteins pay the bills.”
If Stalin had not had the shit murdered the Jews should have.
The fucking Slavs were worse than the Nazis and the Germans leaned from them how to mass murder the masses.
@ Hugo Schmidt-Fischer:
To think “Out of the box” sometimes implies to get out of the country. Great suggestions. So a team of Israeli should go all over the world to find out what is going on out there, pick and chose good ideas and apply them back home.
A lot of friends of Israel would very likely come with many other ideas similar to the ones offered by Hugo.
What about a box for suggestions!
How to get the West off the back of Israel? They are the main problem.
I never thought much of Ross. Or Markovsky
@ Hugo Schmidt-Fischer:
Herr Schmidt-Fischer:
I had thought myself relatively knowledgeable regarding various levels of citizenship status. The information you have cited in your above-posted comment has taught me much about which I had not previously learned.
Likewise, I recall your earlier comment concerning land availability and its effect on housing costs in Israel, especially in view of a likely increases in Jewish emigration from Europe, much of which will flow to Israel, propelled by increasingly anti-Jewish public moods in countries such as the Netherlands, France, the United Kingdom, and Belgium.
I have been gratified to learn that modern Germany stands by its Jewish citizens, some of whom are already playing important roles in support of the German economy — which itself sustains much if not most of Europe; German cultural life; and German sciences. And all of that in favorable comparison to the grand era of Prince Bismarck’s German Empire.
Therefore, your comments, in contrast to many that I read on Israpundit, make interesting and thoughtful reading.
Also, thank you for showing the courage to comment in your own name. I do that, so does Felix Quigley of Ireland, and so too does Ted Belman himself, our Canadian-Israeli host. I strongly admire that, in contrast to those who hide their identities behind false names; a practice which gives appearances of not respecting the heritage of their own families.
Arnold Harris
Mount Horeb WI
I beg to differ to the suggestions above on only one point. There is no necessity to offer citizenships to Arabs living in Areas A/B or C. Even not in small numbers.
As I have written repeatedly, between 25% to 50% of the population in very democratic states of Singapore, Switzerland, Lichtenstein or Luxembourg do not possess citizenship there. Moreover, these are not newcomers, necessarily. Their families have been living in those countries under this status for generations. The sky has not fallen on them. In fact, they are treated very well.
The permanent foreign resident status is characterized as follows. No automatic right to family reunion. This means they cannot ‘marry and import’, bringing in foreign spouses. Incidentally, even indigenous citizens in many countries are also barred from importing foreign brides if they cannot support them. So sorry, no mail order brides.
Another feature is that if a permanent resident leaves for say, study abroad, he has not a right to return, if he was absent for more than 6 months.
A permanent resident committing a crime is liable for deportation.
These norms are accepted in many advanced countries. Other than that, foreign permanent residents enjoy civil rights as any other individual.
It is not a bad deal after all and many people in the West live under similar conditions, for example many holders of US ‘green cards’ who never bother to apply for citizenship.
Arabs yearning for self-determination always have an option to relocate to one of the dozen Arab or Muslim countries where their culture is catered to. That’s more of a choice than is available for Basques, Scotsmen, and other minority nations. I doubt many Arabs will elect to leave, but they should be encouraged if they want to.
There is no need to hand out citizenships, as long as residents are treated fairly and decently.
If Israel is criticized in this, it should point out that it is beholden to exactly the same standards as many other advanced countries.
In the next Iran proxy war in Lebanon, a TSS will develop: a N-Lebanon failed state and a S-Lebanon no-mans land state. The Shiadists will be made to regret that they are Ismaists.
@ Bear Klein:
BK, everything in your game plan for Shomron and Yehuda is feasible except for the statement quoted above. There is no democracy anywhere prevalent in the Middle East other than in Israel. And all too often, Jewish democracy clashes with and overcomes Jewish nationalism. In a place such as the Middle East and in the conditions that apply there, Israel dare not organize elections that surely would result in anti-Israeli and anti-Jewish gangs such as Fatah, Hamas, and possibly even ISIS being elected with authority if any kind over the lives and futures of the Arabs of Area B and Area A.
Instead, Area B should be put under the same kind of status as Area C, with Jewish settlement on at a widespread if moderate scale as soon as Area C either is put under Israeli civil control or annexed outright, with Israeli citizenship offered to the relatively small numbers of Area C Arabs. As these processes are actuated, Arab residents of Area B — another relatively small number of people, compared with the Area A Arab cities, should be offered Israeli citizenship, but possibly in stages.
As for the seven Area A cities, Israel should separately negotiate local autonomy agreements with the chiefs of the local hamulas (blood-related clan groups) and other prominent local Arab families. All these differ among the various cities. The hamulas are truly significant in Palestinian urban Arab affairs and have been so for many centuries. In fact, it was through these families that the Ottoman Turkish empire ruled Palestine, which then was pat of the vilayet (province) of Syria. In return for favored status of making their own local rules, the hamulas kept the general peace with Istanbul.
The time has come for Israeli policymakers who deal with Arabs to undergo short but intensive schooling in Arab sociology and even their anthropology as applied to their family relationships, which tend to be stronger than similar patterns among Jews.
I would be interested in reading a comment by Felix Quigley about these ideas. Irrespective of his attachments to the 4th International of Leon Trotsky, I have learned over the years that he has a well-schooled scholarly approach to some of the considerations cited above. I would also like to say to him that I fully understand that had just about any other personality in early Bolshevik Russia not taken on the overwhelming tasks of organizing and leading the Red Armies of 1917-1921, Lenin’s government never could have survived the assaults of the White Guard armies under support of the assorted foreign interventionists. If he is reading this comment, he will know exactly what I mean.
Arnold Harris
Mount Horeb WI
Reciprocity
Israel should insist on reciprocity in its dealings with the Arabs.
As long as Arabs remain belligerent, negotiations shall thus not be suffered.
Meanwhile, area C must be annexed, without prejudicing the rights to all of historic Palestine as defined in the San Remo convention. Construction in E1 is to commence immediately.
Arabs within areas A/B receive certain municipal rights and can vote for local authority elections.
Arabs will enjoy permanent resident status, exactly the same status as holders of foreign passports, many already in 3rd or 4th Generation, in model countries such as Singapore, Switzerland, Liechtenstein, or Luxembourg. Such a status can be revoked for individuals who engage in criminal activity. These residents lose their status 6 months after they leave their residence, just like in the progressive attractive sought after countries mentioned above.
In addition, Israel will actively encourage voluntary emigration of Arab residents through appealing programs. Many European countries similarly helped their citizens financially to emigrate and start new careers in Canada or Australia. For example, Holland encouraged own citizens to emigrate through most of the 20th century in order to reduce unemployment.
I have heard Gazans are paying thousands of dollars to clandestinely leave for the West. Israel should support this.
Europe is absorbing millions of Muslims every year, thanks to the strong EU organization of the ‘Euro-Arab Dialogue’. This Institution is very interested in promoting unity with ‘Mediterranean people’ and has provided generous immigration rights into the EU from Arab countries.
Israel should start with a plan similar to the following:
1. Implement Levy Report
2. Annex Area C or minimally all Jewish Towns in Judah and Samaria plus the Jordan Valley. Israel can hold a referendum in Area C before Annexing it in its entirety.
3. Implement a program to help Arabs who want to sell their property in East Jerusalem plus Area C. Help them relocate overseas.
4. Put out an offer that Israel will be willing to allow the Palestinians in Areas A/B demilitarized self government, however the Israel will maintain security functions. Israel Arrangement can be similar San Marino and Italy. Israel will be willing to negotiate a peace treaty based on Areas A/B but not based on the 1967 as they are irrelevant. Pals will not accept but this is the basis we would be willing to talk. This allows for all options open in the future when they refuse.