– as Zelensky insists Putin has ‘no interest in talking’
- Former US secretary of state told conference that Ukraine should accept terms
- The 98-year-old added if they don’t begin negotiations there will be ‘upheavals’
- He said it would be ‘fatal’ for the West to get swept up in ‘mood of the moment’
- Summits will become pointless because ‘brute force does not talk it kills,’ Zelensky said
- Russia has been banned from the conference, in latest sign of Putin’s isolation
By LIZZIE MAY and CHRIS PLEASANCE FOR MAILONLINE and AFP
Henry Kissinger has said that the West should stop trying to inflict a crushing defeat on Russia and suggested that Ukraine should give up territory.
Former US secretary of state Mr Kissinger, 98, told the World Economic Forum held in Davos, Switzerland that Ukraine must begin negotiations ‘before it creates upheavals and tensions that will not be easily overcome’.
‘Ideally, the dividing line should be a return to the status quo ante. Pursuing the war beyond that point would not be about the freedom of Ukraine, but a new war against Russia itself,’ he told the conference on Monday.
Brooklyn Beckham and Nicola Peltz reveal wedding guests dined on £3 burgers and David pleaded for forgiveness in his emotional speech as they share new details from their Bowie-inspired ceremony in striking British Vogue spread, and other top stories from May 24, 2022.
It came as Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said in a powerful speech to open this week’s Davos summit in Switzerland that brute force will once again rule the world if Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is allowed to go unanswered.
He told delegates that their summit will become pointless if Putin is allowed to win the war because he is ‘not interested in our thoughts’ and ‘brute force… does not talk, it kills.’
But Mr Kissinger said it would be ‘fatal’ for the West to get swept up in the ‘mood of the moment’ and forget Russia’s position of power within Europe.
The former US secretary of state Henry Kissinger (pictured on the screen) told the global elite that Ukraine should give Russia territory within the next two months and accept terms that fail to meet their current war aims
Mr Kissinger, 98, told the World Economic Forum held in Davos, Switzerland that Ukraine must begin negotiations ‘before it creates upheavals and tensions that will not be easily overcome’. Kissinger, pictured with Vladimir Putin in March 2009
According to The Telegraph, he explained that Russia was an ‘essential part of Europe’ for over four centuries, noting that European leaders must ‘not lose sight of the longer term relationship’ or otherwise risk putting Russia in a permanent alliance with China.
He also said: ‘I hope the Ukrainians will match the heroism they have shown with wisdom.’
Volodymyr Zelensky told the meeting that brute force will once again rule the world if Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is allowed to go unanswered in a powerful speech to open this week’s Davos summit in Switzerland.
The Ukrainian President told delegates that their summit will become pointless if Putin is allowed to win the war because he is ‘not interested in our thoughts’ and ‘brute force… does not talk, it kills.’
Zelensky’s speech came at the start of four days of talks during which Ukraine is expected to launch a global charm offensive in order to secure economic and military backing to ensure its survival.
Volodymyr Zelensky told Davos (pictured) that brute force will once again rule the world if Russia’s invasion of Ukraine is allowed to go unanswered in a powerful speech to open this week’s Davos summit in Switzerland
Russia will not be at the Davos meeting this year after organisers banned Moscow from sending a delegation in just the latest signal of how isolated Putin has become on the world stage.
‘The main theme for this year’s Davos [summit] is: ‘History at a Turning Point”, Zelensky told a packed auditorium on Monday morning.
‘This year, the words ‘turning point’ are more than a rhetorical talking point. This year is really the year when it is decided whether brute force will rule the world.
‘If so, the powerful are not interested in our thoughts and there is no further use for meeting in Davos.
‘Brute force seeks nothing but the subjugation of those who it seeks to subdue and it does not talk, it kills, as Russia does in Ukraine just as we speak today.
Recalling the horrors of Russia’s invasion to date, Zelesnky added: ‘Instead of peaceful cities there are only black ruins, instead of normal trade [there are] seas full of mines and blocked ports, instead of tourists [there are] closed skies and the sound of Russian bombs and cruise missiles.
‘This is what the world would look like if that turning moment does not have a proper response from humanity, it would resemble a large set of war crimes.’
The Ukrainian President (pictured on screen) told delegates that their summit will become pointless if Putin is allowed to win the war because he is ‘not interested in our thoughts’ and ‘brute force… does not talk, it kills’
Zelensky’s speech came at the start of four days of talks during which Ukraine is expected to launch a global charm offensive in order to secure economic and military backing to ensure its survival
Zelensky also pointed to Russia House – a conference venue in the city which typically hosts the delegation – which this year has been turned into ‘Russian war crimes house.’
He said this is an example of ‘what Russia brings to the world’, while urging leaders to condemn the atrocities.
German vice-chancellor Robert Habeck had an angry outburst at the summit while accusing Hungary and various other uncooperative countries of stopping attempts of an oil embargo by the EU. ‘We are seeing the worst of Europe,’ he said.
Russia has faced serious economic sanctions since their invasion of Ukraine on 24 February, with the nation now facing a food and energy crisis.
Mr Habeck said: ‘I expect everyone to work to find a solution, and not to sit back and work on building their partnership with Putin.’
The vice-chancellor who is also the country’s economy minister, added that Germany is ‘ready to endure the shock’ of a Russian oil imports cut-off.
Energy minister for India Shri Hardeep Pury, when suggestions were made that his country should stop in its business with buying Russian oil, said: ‘The Europeans buy more Russian energy in an afternoon than we do in a quarter.’
Zelensky tells Davos their meeting will be pointless if Putin wins war
Russia House, a conference centre in Davos, Switzerland, typically used by the Russian delegation, has been turned into ‘War Crimes House’ after the country was banned
Ukraine has dispatched the second-largest contingent of any country to Davos as part of a global charm offensive to secure backing for its fight-back against Russia
WEF founder Klaus Schwab said last week that Davos would do what it can to support Ukraine and its recovery.
‘Russia’s aggression on the country will be seen in future history books as the breakdown of the post-World War II and post-Cold War order,’ he said.
More than 50 heads of state or government will be among the 2,500 delegates, ranging from business leaders to academics and civil society figures.
Some of the biggest names include Germany’s new chancellor, Olaf Scholz, European Union chief Ursula von der Leyen, NATO head Jens Stoltenberg and US climate envoy John Kerry.
While the summit is back, it lacks its usual snowy backdrop as the Omicron variant forced this year’s January meeting to be postponed until now. Instead, rain is forecast all week.
Climate change and concerns about the economic recovery from the pandemic are also at the forefront of the Davos talks.
Inflation has become a major concern as energy and food prices have soared further since Russia invaded Ukraine, raising fears of hunger in countries dependent on wheat from the region.
Peloni,
I join with Reader in thanking you. I was not aware of all the monkey pox monkeybusiness, other than knowing in my “knower” that another scam was afoot.
I don’t believe it is a coincidence, that all these “crises” (Ukraine, pox, election fraud, censorship, etc.) are coming at us like a 4th of July fireworks display. A handful of extremely wealthy people control the world, and they are highly interconnected and organized (through the WEF, WHO, etc.). It’s a high-rolling game to them; but of course, that comes down to misery for billions of innocent people. It is an unnatural and self-defeating enterprise, not too unlike Hitler’s mad rush to infamy; but like the latter, it will collapse in one day.
My wife and I are pretty much over our bout with COVID. God bless and keep you and yours.
@peloni
Thanks for the Monkey Pox/Chickenpox/Shingles explanation.
I am wondering whether they are pushing the fairly innocuous Monkey Pox thing in order to finish off more of the elderly (especially those without families), the emotionally unstable youngsters, and other “useless eaters” who, upon hearing the “fear porn” about the new pandemic right on the heels of COVID, may simply decide that life is no longer worth living.
@Michael
Yes, as Reader noted, it isn’t that he is necessarily incorrect, as I believe there is little doubt that Ukraine is being severely routed. The retreat in Severdonesk was towarsds another industrial park such as they did in Mariupol, but it is unknown if there is a bunker basement for them to hold up in or if it is part of an actual withdrawal from the city – should be more clear today or tomorrow – but this was not a small move, especially when combined with the complete retreat from Lyman which was a devastating city to lose due to its railway hub. Dombas is nearly completely captured and the Ukrainians are still suggesting that they are making strategic withdrawals, which is humerously coincindent with the Foreign Minister of Ukraine announcing at the WEF that things are very bad in Dombas. Against every advantage made available to the Ukrainians in this war, they are losing, and they have all but lost the complete Dombas already.
I also agree with you about the many fronts of this war, and you raise a very important question about the midterms. Whether they will be cancelled or corrupted, they will be one more move towards explaining to the governed in the US that their role towards the consent of their rulers is not implicitly their own, and may soon be seen as explicitly one more virtue signal to excuse the oligarchic control over the manipulation of their lives. The absurdity that the fraudmaster Kemp and his ballot master Raffensburger won overwhelmingly avoiding even the necessity of a runoff was everybit as rediculous as the 2014 victory of Poroshenko the Confectionery King as Ukraine’s president. Indeed, what a crazy coincidence it is that Kemp received not only record breaking support in an off-year election, as he stands eyes deep in the election corruption, but we are also to believe that he gained nearly 100K more votes than Hershel Walker – they simply do not care how obvious their ploys becomes, as they only care about the power they maintain as they wield it over others simply to maintain their abilty to do so.
Regarding Monkey Pox, it does appear that they are going full speed ahead on their Monkey Pox plot, for now in any case. One point that I think I should make clear, and I think I failed to clarify on my last comments with you and Reader related to the Monkey Pox, is to explain the relative relationship between the vaccine and establishing an outbreak of Chicken Pox which can be confused with Monkey Pox based on similarities in presentation. The vaccine causes latent viruses to re-emerge. One of these is the Chicken Pox virus, but it does not present as Chicken Pox, it presents as Shingles which is a severely painful rash that is commonly presented on the head or body. Shingles is commonly associated with reduced immunity such as another infection, but can also be associated with severe stress, and was seen to among the largest side-effects noted in the Pfizer vaccine data, ie re-emerging latent viruses. It is highly contagious to susceptible people(those who are not immune the the chicken pox virus), but when spread to others, it presents again as Chicken Pox, which is indistinguishable from Monkey Pox, rather than as Shingles. This explanation is very commonly known by many, so forgive me if you were already aware, but I thought I should clarify the point given the massive media disinfo campaign currently ongoing. I was alarmed to recently read, for instance, the claim that Shingles is not contagious in a recent article in Forbes (https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2022/05/27/monkeypox-is-not-the-same-as-shingles-despite-covid-19-vaccine-related-claims/?sh=bb806594f180). I presume that their ploy is to suggest that it does not spread as Shingles, which is facetious disambiguity intended to mislead people. This is a very serious health issue and people should be fully aware that Shingles is very much contagious, but it spreads to susceptible hosts in the form of Chicken Pox, which is again, indistinguishable from Monkey Pox by clinical signs. Making such claims as that it is not contagious will simply result in more outbreaks. I thought I should note this fact.
Hi, Reader and Peloni
This recent article from the Daily Mail pretty much follows the drift of recent Saker posts:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10863019/Ukraine-LOSING-Defenders-forced-fall-avoid-capture-Russians-advance-Donbas.html
Lots of pix and videos. The Ukrainians are getting pushed back near Severodontsk, I imagine this will be the general direction of the war, unless NATO comes in with some “game changer”.
There are other fronts to this war, each more important than the Ukraine conflict:
1. The US Mid-terms. Will they even be held?
2. The “Monkeyshine Virus” and other surprizes from Pfizer, Gates et al.
3. Red China seems to be on the verge of a kinetic push against Taiwan, and I’m afraid Biden and his clowns are preparing for another Kabul evac.
Lots happening. PS. Hyperinflation for all, and probably a famine in many countries — coming in weeks and months.
@Reader
I quite agree with you. Of course, it took me only a few reads of his blog some years back to arrive at this conclusion. Hence, I don’t read the Saker, routinely, but I also know whose commentary I am reading when I do, and consider it in the relevant context, much as is true when I read at the Grey Zone or other similarly oriented sites.
I do, however, believe that the Military Situation at Rumble, which the Saker referenced, is a very informative group, just FYI, which formed the basis of much of my response to Michael, and I believe, much of the basis of his own comments..
Reposting this since it went into moderation for some odd reason.
Reader
May 29, 2022 at 1:35 pm
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
@peloni
The Saker blog owner is a flaming antisemite, that’s why I stopped reading his blog years ago.
I am not saying this lightly because I don’t have a knee-jerk reaction to anti-Jewish expressions or opinions since ignoring everyone with these expressions or opinions would be equivalent to locking myself up in my room with no access to the outside world.
However, I have my limits.
Today’s random examples from The Saker [notes and emphasis mine]:
[I don’t know who or what this “Lowkey” is – all the rest of his “philosophy” is only about truth, justice, love, and charity]
For someone like him it is normal because he is a descendant of the so-called “White emigres” most of whom were antisemitic but this stuff turns my stomach.
NOTE: I am not saying that all the stuff he posts is useless or incorrect, all I am saying that his information is not unobtainable elsewhere, and I prefer to look for it elsewhere rather than on his blog.
@peloni
The Saker blog owner is a flaming antisemite, that’s why I stopped reading his blog years ago.
I am not saying this lightly because I don’t have a knee-jerk reaction to anti-Jewish expressions or opinions since ignoring everyone with these expressions or opinions would be equivalent to locking myself up in my room with no access to the outside world.
However, I have my limits.
Today’s random examples from The Saker [notes and emphasis mine]:
[I don’t know who or what this “Lowkey” is – all the rest of his “philosophy” is only about truth, justice, love, and charity]
For someone like him it is normal because he is a descendant of the so-called “White emigres” most of whom were antisemitic but this stuff turns my stomach.
NOTE: I am not saying that all the stuff he posts is useless or incorrect, all I am saying that his information is not unobtainable elsewhere, and I prefer to look for it elsewhere rather than on his blog.
@peloni
When Lewis Carroll (the author of Alice in Wonderland) travelled to Russia, he recorded a “horrible” word there: “zashchishchayushchiyesya” (the ones who are defending themselves), so Severodonetzk is like nothing compared to this one.
Hi, Peloni
Yes, the Saker blog was a few days old; but the updates have not shown any significatnt change on the ground. Russia is basically tightening the nooses around “cauldrons” in the Donbass, forward-based Ukrainian troops are in a hopeless situation, and Ukraine’s military councils are getting increasingly desperate. The post I did show mentioned Poroshenko’s apparent attempt to flee Ukraine, which I thought was more telling than even the military situation.
I’ve been following the Ukraine War, with an eye to the bigger picture. We are in the midst of a World War, which can be seen here:
https://rumble.com/v16dicf-mark-my-words…this-is-coming-in-2022-its-time-to-sound-the-alarm-and-prep.html
@Michael
Did you hear of the fall of Lyman yesterday, timed too coincidentally with the report carried by Military Summary on Rumble(FYI, that video shared on the Saker blog article was from 3days ago). It is quite supportive of the report he carried relating the agreement reached between the military high command and Zelensky earlier in the week to prevent a second third and fourth repeat of the encirclement of Marioupol, but Zelensky reportedly agreed to allow the withdrawal of troops only starting on Friday as occured in Lyman. Was this due to the US Memorial Day weekend when few (Americans at least) will hear of the retreats? Perhaps I am being too cynical, but I believe the Ukrainians devotion to cultivating their propaganda throughout the West may be the only thing they may succeed in holding onto in this war, so that is my bias, such as it is. To support my belief that Military Summary’s report was accurate, yesterday the Russians rapidly took Lyman in a day, a small city that Russia had previously reported would take a week or more to wrest from the defenders. Meanwhile, it is reported that Sievierodonetsk(why do so many of their cities have impossible to spell/pronounce names?? again personal bias…) and Zolte are now cut off from any possible retreat. There are reports (uncertain of the sourcing) that the artillery has already been removed from Lysychansk(another impossible spelling, but fun to say), which also supports the belief in the arranged withdrawal for this weekend. The problem is that the artillery is all that held the Russians at bay. Lysychansk does have one road open to them but it is seriously compromised by the Russian artillery. A bus evacuated a few dozen out of Lysychansk today without serious events, so perhaps that was a test run for a broader evacuation, or perhaps it was just the removal of some injured. I tend to accept the reports that support your conclusion of a broad collapse, but I don’t believe those in Zolte and (the impossible to spell) Sievierodonetsk are likely going anywhere, as they are cut off from any road allowing a retreat without the use of cross country manner which would be a complete rout.
When Ukraine took Popasnaya a couple of weeks ago, it made the continued control of all these areas quite hopeless. A similar scenario following the capture of Popasnaya is likely to follow the capture of Avdiivka(another brain teaser, for me at least) which will allow the Russians to command a great deal of the surrounding area (Avdiivka is located further south of Popasnaya and the other cities discussed above, just FYI), presuming the Russians will be able to capture it – as with Popasnaya, it is a vital position to both the Russians and the Ukrainians, and the loss of this position, as with Popasnaya, will write chapter and verse of the coming weeks regarding who will be advancing and who will be retreating. In truth, when Popasnaya fell, the Ukrainians should have withdrawn to a more defensible line and save the most vital of their assets, their veteran troops, but that would have broken with the propaganda story…The denial of reality by the Ukrainias is so sinister with such human costs, it is unbelievable that the Ukrainian people are not more openly outraged than the few outbursts shown in videos shared on the web.
Is Ukraine on the verge of a major retreat?
https://thesaker.is/sitrep-operation-z-consequences-petty-tabaquis-howling/
@Reader,
I am fairly convinced they are not even interested in brakes. As obvious as the potential devasstation that they are heading towards, they seem quite determined to continue on as if the very outcome that Kissinger and others have warned against is the very outcome they are seeking to provoke, just as was the case before Putin invaded. It was no different in 2014, as you noted Kissenger warned the children leading the coup that they were going to burn down the barn, and they just continued on their path of insanity. Like a bunch of reckless psychopaths running a department store, they have no interest in store profits, security measures or next year’s inventory.
@peloni
I think that Kissinger certainly doesn’t want a major conflict or a world war, however, the US seems to be intent on destroying the world economy to benefit itself (becoming again self-sufficient, coming out on top, etc.) and doesn’t mind following the paradigm of the Great Depression and the Good War with another Marshall Plan for Europe with Russia and China lying in the dust.
Seems like a very tall order but the PTB, I think, have lost the brakes at this point.
As I have read thru Kissinger’s speech, I am struck by the real focus of his motivation. His statement is one which comes to save a life’s work which has, in the pursuit of this crazy game of chicken between nuclear powers, come to see the rules based order brought to a state of disarray and the potential of complete collapse, if saner minds do not displace the will exercised by govt officials whose reckless acts of political overstep could be easily confused with the judgement of some characters ripped directly from DC’s Gotham comics.
I believe that Kissinger sees the potential for the endless war, which the West is seeking in Ukraine, will ultimately cripple Europe under the leadership of the US, as they come to terms with the unkind twin reality of their lack of independence with regards to energy and food. When this reality is fully realized, the European nations will be turned into a state of tumult. Europe is unaccustomed to dealing with corporate collapse due to energy restrictions, which will result in a serious economic contraction. Similarly, Europeans are unfamiliar with the prospect of food shortages, which will be particularly damaging when it occurs during the resulting economic collapse that is likely to take place due to the economic contraction. These are the makings of some very volatile moments for the Europeans and they will have a hard time squaring a continued support of such devastating outcomes as they are facing.
Meanwhile, these monumental virtue signalling sacrifices provide no potential to save Ukraine from a defeat that can only be contested with a wider war than that already undertaken. Hence, the great sacrifices that are taking place in the name of NATO solidarity for Ukraine will cripple the European nations and their respect for US leadership which could have ended this crisis long before the first Russian tank rolled into Ukraine. This is what Kissinger is seeking to avoid. He is calling for a return of a stable if bleeding relationship between US and China, and yes, his focus is correctly upon China. He is looking back at his life’s work and then at the likely outcome of this Ukrainian game of Russian Roulette with bullets in all chambers. Never one to have an empty answer, he advises the focus should be redirected away from targeting Russia directly, and towards the incorporation of Russia’s new partners, India and Brazil, into the ‘international system’ as he describes it, to balance the current new reality, while ending the current ongoing debacle with a negotiated settlement.
Hence, he isn’t trying to save Ukraine, just as he isn’t trying to save Russia. He is trying to save what is left of American prominence in the world, which was the linchpin in the world order he helped craft, and which has been seriously damaged due to the Looney Tunes stewardship exacting the terrible effect of advantaging China, alone. It is Kissinger’s view that, to avoid a WWI type scenario, the focus must return to stabilizing the balance between the two world powers, China and the US. He proposes focusing upon interests that decrease tensions, as opposed to the current so called diplomatic undertakings which have been focused upon exacerbating tensions by addressing questions for which the answers are best kept vague and conciliatory, ie Taiwan. He further references the importance in tying Russia to Europe to better advantage the US position against that of China, highlighting the important role that Russia has played during the growth of the European continent and how this relevant factor should be neither ignored nor abandoned to China’s control.
I think it is Kissinger’s intent to recognize that what is broken, can not be remade, but that careful attention towards what is important should regain the center effort of the world’s concerns, and that center effort should be to avoid a WWI scenario, not to save Ukraine and not to destroy Russia.
If you have not read Kissenger’s full speech(link below), it is well worth reading and not too long, really. His antisemitic positions are well summarized by both Sebastien and Edgar (don’t forget the role he poignantly failed to play in the pursuit of the fate and potential rescue of Raoul Wallenberg from his imprisonment by Russia) but I believe his comments call for a careful reconsideration, though, I suspect his advocacy for reason will be uniformly ignored, much as others have suggested.
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2022/05/kissinger-these-are-the-main-geopolitical-challenges-facing-the-world-right-now/
@SEB-
You surprise me with your condescending few words. But thank you for your educational fribble. I don’t know how I ever managed without them.
There actually is ONE that I sometimes use. It’s GSZDV. But not to be applied to you or any o my friends.
As to the “school” sadly, I’m illiterate -by modern “standards”.
@ Edgar FYI ( for your information) : LOL means, “laugh out loud. I could also have replied: “Nobody’s Perfect.” LOL. Get with it, son, if you want to get into a good school; there will be a quiz and then a midterm exam.
@SEBASTIEN-
“What’s my point”….. Maybe just a diatribe against Kissinger, the evil genius of US foreign policy. Or perhaps support for all sovereign states that are getting on with their lives, being assaulted by stronger or more malevolent neighbours, trying to mulct them of their own historic lands, REGARDLESS of who presently resides on it.
I actually believe that the most egregious example of those I mentioned, is the one furthest from the present modern situation..The Riel Obscenity.
Raw Power At Its Worst. Denigrating others. Standard British Practice.
@Ted
Sure, I’ll send you the sourcing. I’ve collected this research over a long period of time and I was not really maintaining a research log, so give me a day or two and I’ll have it for you and I might add a thing or two as well.
@Peloni What of the report that the Russian army had captured the leader of the Azov brigade in Mariopol and that the Ukrainian army had lost men and helicopters trying to rescue him; that that was why Zelensky had held off letting them surrender for so long?
@Peloni
Are your two comments based on your own research or are you largely posting stuff you have read. I ask because I would like to publish them as an article.. Can you offer links and quotation maks to make this clear?
(2 of 2)
In October 2021, Zelensky appointed the former leader of Right Sector, Dimitri Yarosh, as the senior military advisor to the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. As one of the leaders of the Maidan paramilitary groups, it should be recalled that Yarosh publicly threatened to hang Zelensky from a tree after his 2019 presidential election victory should he move towards peace. He issued another death threat following Zelensky’s failed attempt later that year to implement the Minsk agreement.
In December 2021, Zelensky made a public display of awarding the prestigious honor of Hero of Ukraine to Dmytro Kotsyubail, a young Right Sector commander. The ceremony was carried out before the entire parliament with full pomp and display.
Hence, it does appear that as Zelensky was finally able to remove Avakov from power, he was simultaneously placing Right Sector into a position of prominence and support of his govt. The relevance in this was that Right Sector, a veteran force that was very much a part of managing the Maidan protest, which has since continued to exercise political violence in pursuing their objectives.
During the 2019 election Right Sector attacked Poroshenko’s presidential parade injuring several guards in the process. They also attacked and ransacked Zelensky’s presidential offices in 2021 during the the Sternenko protests(see above), injuring 27 security members. All by itself, the placement of Yarosh as senior advisor to the military on the eve of war was a clear nod to the very groups that Zelensky should have been restricting and outlawing, instead, he drew them closer, and outlawed their enemies, a process that he has continued over the past year, despite the encirclement and capture of Azov. Consequently, the annihilation of Azov would not eliminate the threat of political violence which holds the govt captive to the will of the Far Right.
Political violence is a toxic force, inconsistent with any free choice by govt. Its toleration is, in fact, not consistent with any form of democracy, it is the process by which democracies are overrun and controlled by a minority willing and able to exercise coercion of the elected officials. Ukraine, of course, has never been a practicing democracy. It has always been a corrupt plutocracy, ruled by the warring oligarchs. Since the Maidan, however, it has not mattered who might win the elections, it only matters who controls the streets, and whereas this is a complicated question to evaluate, it is clear that the elected govt does not number among the possible answers to this dilemma.
/2
(1 of 2)
@Sebastien
It is a fair question for which the happy outcome was suggested as possible a month or two ago with the anticipation of Azov’s encirclement. Unfortunately, the simple answer to this preferred change in power, from the Fascists to the govt, is not remotely likely.
The Azov brigade is only the military arm of the Azov social movement, and their political wing and street gang (National Corp, National Militia) are likely quite upset at the needless sacrifice of their fellows in the Azov Battalion in Mariupol. National Corp is comprised of veterans of Azov, and the leadership of the street gang are as well. Among these stand members of those who served in the first years of the Dombas wars and during the Maidan as well, such as the founder of Azov, Andriy Biletsky, known to his followers as “the White Leader” (recall Fuhrer meant ‘leader’ FYI). These remaining elements of Azov are still a concern for the govt, but they are not alone in this respect because Azov is not the only force that threatens the govt.
A similar question as you raise, of Zelensky making peace with Putin, arose in June 2021 when Arsen Avakov, the Interior Minister(also known as the Eternal Minister as he survived political purges and even a change in govt) was mysteriously and finally removed from office. He had a great deal of power over both Poroshenko and Zelensky and promoted and protected Azov while in power. It was believed with his long awaited removal, the govt would finally be capable of pivoting towards enacting the Minsk agreements. Instead, the govt appears to have only pivoted towards Right Sector, a rival nationalist group to Azov.
Serhiy Sternenko, a prominent neo fascist member of Right Sector, was being pushed by Zelensky to head the SBU, the state police force in 2019. Sternenko was personally known to have participated in the brutal Odessa Massacre where dozens of unarmed people were burned alive in 2014, and for which he was never charged. He was also charged with kidnapping and robbery and found guilty in Feb. 2021, but he was released due to a public protest across the country. Two months later, it was reported by Sternenko that he had been Zelensky’s choice to head the SBU(state police) and the report was confirmed by a retired govt representative, though the appointment was never approved (not sure if it was ever voted on, and it might have only been a PR stunt to help Zelensky’s terrible poll numbers at the time, but it demonstrates a desire to at least appear to be moving towards Right Sector in any event).
/1
@Edgar
Yes, I began by pointing that out, if somewhat less poetically, or at least the never Jewish part – don’t much care one way or t’other about the rest, being an ends and means kinda’ guy. What’s your point? (LOL)
@Edgar Actually, as others, including Kissiinger have pointed out, Ukraine has already lost the war, and if the West doesn’t persuade Zelensky to cut his losses now and accept the loss of Eastern Ukraine, it will just lead to the total destruction of Western Ukraine and the beginning of a war with Russia which could lead to WW3.
It’s not like Israel because Russia and East Ukrainians are not trying to wipe West Ukraine off the map and exterminate all West Ukrainians after having illegally mass migrated from Russia to East Ukraine mostly under the British Mandate for Ukraine which was supposed to facilitate the immigration, settlement, and enfranchisement of the Ukrainian diaspora, and which betrayed that Mandate from day one and even during and after the Holocaust when 6 million Ukrainians were murdered while the world stood by.
Ukraine-Russia situation has nothing in common with Israel-Arab situation other than the phrase “painful concessions for peace”.
If the war continues, there is a strong possibility that Ukraine will no longer exist as a state.
Thank you to all those who commented. Your comments were very informative.
@SEBASTIEN-
Kissinger is not talking “sense” he’s talking “Metternichean” where Ukraine pays the price and the others benefit.
A comparison would be that Israel should give the area where most of the Arabs live to them or cut it off for Jordan. Or indeed any country which waves a sabre, because some of the population of a contiguous country speaks the same language as they do, and/or would like to secede, so they demand that this portion of a sovereign state, be cut off and joined with them.,
In an extreme example of non contiguousness, France could demand Quebec as an overseas part of France The Quebecers would grab at this. English Canada has been preventing it from becoming independent for many years.
The same way, they destroyed the Metis as an independent nation, , and obscenely persecuted and executed Louis Riel. At that time, The British Crown was “claiming” the Metis’ territory, but far from occupying it.
The Metis had become a nation very shortly after the first Europeans arrived in Canada.
Kissinger is a heartless, selfish, status seeking brute. He always has been a backer of ruthless power and aggression. Cunning and deceitful. playing his own games with the lives of innocents. After WW1 he was in charge of a section which hunted down Gestapo members. Suited him perfectly . It he hasn’t been a Jew , at least in name, and circumstances hadn’t forced him out of Nazi Germany, he’s have been the head of the Gestapo or the Sicherdeinstheit……
Only for Nixon’s overruling, Israel could have lost the Yom Kipur War…and we know what that would have meant.
Nothing Jewish about him at all, never was.
And after this, and after their insults to the German officials, constant demands for money while underperforming (Zelensky has just announced that the situation in Donbass is really bad and they need more advanced weapons) anyone can still wonder why Kissinger suggests the things he does?
The Ukrainians don’t seem to understand that the “help” they have been receiving from the West is an investment in Ukraine acting as a battering ram against Russia and has nothing to do with Ukrainian freedom and sovereignty.
If Ukraine cannot perform this task, then why keep investing in it?
On the other hand, if the West wishes to also destroy Ukraine and Poland and destroy the world economy for some unknown to us purpose, it might want to keep playing the game for a while.
It’s been suggested that Zelensky failed to honor the peace and reconciliation platform he ran on because of the threats from the Azov brigade but that is hone now so does that partially explain Zelensky’s latest peace overture to Putin?
https://www.algemeiner.com/2022/05/23/ukraines-zelensky-says-he-would-meet-with-putin-to-end-the-war/
@Reader Yes, I said the same thing in my first comment if you scroll down.
@Sebastien Zorn
My comment centered solely on what Kissinger said about Ukraine which made sense.
I am sure that to the “owners” of the US government this doesn’t make sense because they want to take “Eurasia” and genocide most of its inhabitants as per Hitler’s plans in WWII.
Just because he said the things you quoted doesn’t make his statements about Ukraine wrong.
If the US and NATO took the concerns Russia voiced last year seriously, this Ukrainian disaster would never have happened but they, apparently, thought it would be nice for Russia to get its Afghanistan 2 in Ukraine, Ukrainians be damned!
So Kissinger is trying to talk some sense into them before this thing really blows up in their faces.
@Reader
Kissinger at 98: ‘If it were not for the accident of my birth, I would be antisemitic.’
https://forward.com/culture/470300/kissinger-at-98-if-it-were-not-for-the-accident-of-my-birth-i-would-be/
“…In 1985, he publicly supported President Ronald Reagan’s wreath-laying ceremony at a military cemetery in Bitburg, West Germany where members of the Waffen-SS are buried. Kissinger opposed the idea of a United States Holocaust Memorial Museum, because such an institution next to the National Mall in Washington, D.C., might create “too high a profile” for American Jews and “reignite antisemitism.”
Among his statements, one from March 1973 caused a stir when it was published in 2010. Taped in conversation with Richard Nixon soon after a meeting with Israeli Prime Minister Golda Meir, Kissinger disdained the notion of pressuring the USSR about persecuted Soviet Jews, saying: “The emigration of Jews from the Soviet Union is not an objective of American foreign policy, and if they put Jews into gas chambers in the Soviet Union, it is not an American concern. Maybe a humanitarian concern.”
In 2011, hitherto secret U.S. State Department documents from late 1972 were likewise published, revealing that Kissinger was irked by the concern expressed by American Jews about the fate of Soviet Jewry, calling the former “self-serving…bastards.”
Walter Isaacson explains that at a contemporaneous meeting of the Washington Special Actions Group, a government crisis task force, Kissinger grumbled, “If it were not for the accident of my birth, I would be antisemitic.” He added: “Any people who has been persecuted for two thousand years must be doing something wrong.”
During a Vietnam War-era chat from October 1973 with Brent Scowcroft, Deputy Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs, Kissinger found American Jews and Israelis “as obnoxious as the Vietnamese.”
In another transcribed telephone conversation from November 1973, Kissinger declared: “I’m going to be the first Jew accused of antisemitism.” This sally reflects obliviousness to the longstanding concept of Jewish self-hatred described by cultural historian Sander Gilman and analyzed in Theodor Herzl’s “The Jewish State” (1896).
Kissinger also mocked those who defended Jews, especially Israelis. One such target was presidential adviser Daniel Patrick Moynihan, whose pro-Israel stance evoked this comment from Kissinger: “We are conducting foreign policy. … This is not a synagogue.”
Kissinger further inquired derisively if the Irish-Catholic Moynihan wished to convert to Judaism. These and other wisecracks led some observers, like Yeshiva University’s Rabbi Norman Lamm to disavow Kissinger as early as December 1975.
Noting that one of Kissinger’s first actions as Secretary of State was to revoke the standard procedure allowing Jewish State Department employees holidays on Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur, Rabbi Lamm cited other instances where Kissinger failed to commemorate or even mention the Holocaust:
“Let us openly disassociate from [Kissinger]. He wants not to be a part of our people — its history and its destiny, its suffering and its joys. So be it. Let us never again, in our talk or in our publications, make reference to this man’s Jewishness. And let us insist that he be done with his occasional shrewd remarks to the press or to diplomats that, of course, he would not jeopardize the lives of Jews or other oppressed peoples because he too is a refugee from oppression. A man who ‘forgets’ millions of his fellow sufferers, has lost the moral right to make use of their suffering and his own refugee status in furthering his own ends… Our Kavod (honor) ultimately will be better served if Henry Kissinger will succeed in severing whatever frail and residual bonds still tie him to the House of Jacob and the Children of Israel. Let us grant him his obvious wish to be dis-united with us…”
@Reader
Kissinger tried to delay Nixon from sending arms to Israel right away in 1973. He wanted Israel to suffer losses, “to be bloodied,” so as to maintain equity with the Arabs. Not a friend.
In February (as I remember) of 2014 in the heat of the Maidan, Kissinger suddenly popped up out of nowhere and asked: “Why are we doing this?”
Golda Meir knew him and she said that (I am writing this from memory), first of all, he had this incredible energy and worked very long hours, and second, that when he was working on something, he studied the question until he had an encyclopedic knowledge of it.
So far, he is the only major figure whose pronouncements make sense, however, his philosophy and ethics don’t match that of the giant corporations who own the US government, so I am pretty sure he will be ignored.
But this also fits in with what that British Ukraine Pundit said, that as with Vietnam, even before the protesters appeared, elites began rethinking it and when they start speaking up, the peace overtures will begin.
Amazing! Well, even a stopped clock is right twice a day, ass the saying goes. Be hilarious if the Dems – heirs to the anti-anti-Communism and anti Vietnam #ar crowd – claim he’s a Russian agent.