DEBKAfile Exclusive Report
February 10, 2011, 4:31 PM (GMT+02:00)
The conversation between President Barack Obama and Saudi King Abdullah early Thursday, Feb. 10, was the most acerbic the US president has ever had with an Arab ruler, debkafile’s Middle East sources report. They had a serious falling-out on the Egyptian crisis which so enraged the king that some US and Middle East sources reported he suffered a sudden heart attack. Rumors that he had died rocked the world financial and oil markets that morning and were denied by an adviser to the ruling family. Some Gulf sources say he has had heart attacks in the past.
Those sources disclose that the call which Obama put into Abdullah, who is recuperating from back surgery at his palace in Morocco, brought their relations into deep crisis and placed in jeopardythe entire edifice of US Iran and Middle East policies.
The king chastised the president for his treatment of Egypt and its president Hosni Muhbarak calling it a disaster that would generate instability in the region and imperil all the moderate Arab rulers and regimes which had backed the United States until now. Abdullah took Obama to task for ditching America’s most faithful ally in the Arab world and vowed that if the US continues to try and get rid of Mubarak, the Saudi royal family would bend all its resources to undoing Washington’s plans for Egypt and nullifying their consequences.
According to British intelligence sources in London, the Saudi King pledged to make up the losses to Egypt if Washington cuts off military and economic aid to force Mubarak to resign. He would personally instruct the Saudi treasury to transfer to the embattled Egyptian ruler the exact amounts he needs for himself and his army to stand up to American pressure.
Through all the ups and downs of Saudi-US relations since the 1950s no Saudi ruler has ever threatened direct action against American policy.
A senior Saudi source told the London Times that “Mubarak and King Abdullah are not just allies, they are close friends, and the King is not about to see his friend cast aside and humiliated.”
Indeed, our sources add, the king at the age of 87 is fearful that in the event of a situation developing in Saudi Arabia like the uprising in Egypt, Washington would dump him just like Mubarak.
debkafile’s intelligence sources add that replacement aid for Egypt was not the only card in Abdullah’s deck. He informed Obama that without waiting for events in Egypt to play out or America’s response, he had ordered the process set in train for raising the level of Riyadh’s diplomatic and military ties with Tehran. Invitations had gone out from Riyadh for Iranian delegations to visit the main Saudi cities.
Abdullah stressed he had more than one bone to pick with Obama. The king accused the US president of turning his back not only on Mubarak but on another beleaguered American ally, the former Lebanese Prime Minister Sa’ad Hariri, when he was toppled by Iran’s surrogate Hizballah.
Our sources in Washington report that all of President Obama’s efforts to pacify the Saudi king and explain his Egyptian policy fell on deaf ears.
Arab sources in London reported Tuesday, Feb. 8, that a special US presidential emissary was dispatched to Morocco with a message of explanation for the king. He was turned away. This is not confirmed by US or Saudi sources.
The initiation of dialogue between Riyadh and Tehran is the most dramatic fallout in the region from the crisis in Egypt. Its is a boon for the ayatollahs who are treated the sight of pro-Western regimes either fading under the weight of domestic uprisings, or turning away from the US as Saudi Arabia is doing now.
This development is also of pivotal importance for Israel. Saudi Arabia’s close friendship with the Mubarak regime dovetailed neatly with Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu’s alignment with Egypt and provided them with common policy denominators. The opening of the Saudi door to the Iranian push toward the Red Sea and Suez Canal tightens the Iranian siege ring around Israel.
Signs of friction between Washington and Riyadh were noticeable this week even before President Obama’s call to King Abdullah. Some American media reported the discovery that Saudi oil reserves were a lot smaller than previously estimated. And Saudi media ran big headlines, most untypically, alleging the US embassy and consulate in Dahran were paying sub-contractors starvation wages of $4.3 a day for cleaning work and $3.3 a day for gardening work.
hey Rabbits (who ran)
Where did Ted Belman call for defeat of protesters and Mubarak be defended?
Ted, you’re responding to Michael Wiener, right?
http://samsonblinded.org/blog/crisis-in-egypt.htm
There is little doubt that the Army dumped Mubarak because America wanted that result. Protests in Cairo’s central square do not happen like in Washington: the Egyptian government has zero tolerance for them. The army put on a mere show of riot control: a handful of tanks with fighter jets flying overhead, and nothing more. We did not witness a military putsch, but an act of treason. Thirty years of being wined and dined in Washington has corrupted the top Egyptian Brass just like their Israeli counterparts.
Today, the Brotherhood is the only significant opposition movement because it relies on a network of mosques, while secular parties lack a similar institutional structure. But by the time secular parties—many of which are virulently anti-Israeli—are able to blossom, the Muslim Brotherhood will already have transformed Egypt into a sharia state. Nor will the army help, because the army has been heavily infiltrated by the Brotherhood, and many of its officers are sympathetic to the Islamist cause. The Egyptian army lacks the staunch secularism of the Turkish army, and even the Turkish army is now being Islamicized.
As Egypt goes, all of the ME goes. Israel will have to resign ourselves to A new ME, and for the first time in the past four thousand years we might have to battle both Egypt and Iran simultaneously. IDF will either have to re-take Rafah or face an Islamist Hamastan supplied with Iranian weaponry.
Israel has a new front—with Egypt, whose army the US has subsidized for the past 32 years.
The Saudis drew Egypt into the orbit of their improved relations with Iran by promising to fully replace American aid to Egypt if Obama cuts it.
If such an alliance is indeed formed, Israel will find it hard to survive.
I can see scenario of the Saudis embracing Iran if for no other reason, self preservation. MB will depose Jordanian Monarchy and through Hamas dump Fatah and PLO. Egypt will open her border to Hamas and arms and terrorists will have free flow of movement.
Mubarak is already in exile in Dubai, All the leaders of PA have asked for Jordanian citizenship. The army is trying by force to establish her authority and the protesters in the square who are refusing to leave and for the first Egyptian military police are encountering some physical resistance. Will there be a reprise of Tienanmen Square?
The rats are either deserting the sinking ship or are preparing for the eventuality. Here in Israel according to all polls BB has lost his public support and 42% of those who voted for Likud say they won’t next time. Barak has zero public confidence except BB. Lieberman threatening to leave coalition and BB is negotiating with NU again. As I said 2 weeks ago the smell of elections is in the air.
I think, you are suggesting that the litmus test of whether we can rely on the Regime including military was whether the military fired on the protestors. Since they didn’t fire that means that they have given in to the demands of the protestors. Plausible but time will tell.
Mubarak retired but that is the only thing which has changed.
The same suppressive regime is still there, mopping up the noisemakers.
Back to work.
Suggested reading, especially for those who (still) think that the Muslim Brotherhood does not have the general backing of the majority of the Egyptian populace:
Please, Lord, Let Me Be Wrong
A Picture’s Worth a Thousand Words See Here
Photo of the Day: Who’s Running Egypt Now
By Debbie Schlussel
They tell us that the Muslim Brotherhood and Islamic extremists are not running Egypt, in the wake of Hosni Mubarak’s resignation. They tell us that the country is now being run by the military, by a junta of sorts, and that we shouldn’t worry. Well, check out the photo below of an Egyptian soldier and his mother. This is the Egyptian military. That’s their mothers. Yup, not extremist Muslims at all . . . if you consider women in full-ninja outfits with just eye-slits normal, Western-style democracy stuff. This is why the military generally did nothing and didn’t shoot at protesters in Tahrir Square. They sympathized with them. And now they–the sons of women in full-ninja bedsheets (niqabs)–are running Egypt. Think they want to have peace or anything close to it with Israel? allahu FUBAR.
#13
I agree with All you said.
You are right we agree on almost nothing!
Mubarak represented the military establishment in Egypt and Suleiman is also a general and on the high mil. council. The Army dumped Mubarak because to keep him they would have had to disperse and clamp down on the protesters. CNN reported that many recruits left their tanks and Armour vehicles and joined the protesters. Since the Egyptian army is made up of illiterate recruits 3 years and high-school graduates 2 years, university grads one year, it is a safe bet the the MB has a lot of support among the 3 year recruits, the vast majority of the army. In short it could have caused a split even disintegration of the army if they had fired on the crowds.
The other reason is the businesses controlled and owned by the army were beginning to lose money and potentially their markets their livelihoods and their collective nest eggs for the future. They are a state within a state but they can’t run a modern state and I don’t think they want to either. Running a failed semi-modern state means they will have to take responsibility for the consequences of the economic failures and expectations of the people especially the small middle class who were most prominent in the protests. There were in the past riots in Egypt when the prices rose a cent or two on staples like bread and rice. When commodities are rising faster than inflation and no end insight Egypt will have to increase their subsidies reducing GDP and deficits. I don’t think the army wants anything to do with such
responsibilities. MB does not have to rule directly just influence who is elected.
The MB wants to be accepted as a legit recognized participant in the political process but they don’t want to govern yet. They will be able to criticize the failure of any government to be elected, by staying in the opposition they can only increase their political power and popularity until even the army could not stop or oppose them. Letting the Army elite keep their business holdings or not threatening them, should keep them loyal to any civilian rule in the future.
Just now an analyst of Fox said their there is a movement to bring in Amar Mussa from the Arab League and past foreign minister to be caretaker president. That’s like America asking Jim Baker to run America.
The Egyptian Air Force is undergoing massive modernization. Mikoyan confirmed that talks with Egypt are underway for the sale of 40 Mig-29SMT jet-fighters with a possible additional batch of 60-80 planes. Egypt is not totally in Americas pocket.
Belman
Ted, You just don’t get it. The regime and Suleiman are gone. The military has taken over temporarily until a duly elected civilian gov’t takes over. If that does not happen, millions of Egyptians will be back on the streets in a flash. Stop living in your illusions. 85 million Egyptians do not view the fate of Egypt through the prism of what is good for Israel. if you think that you are living a pipe dream.
Felix has mistaken me for someone else. Also Yamit and I differ on almost everything.
My position was and is that Mubartak is inconsequential. Sooner of later he would be gone. If shedding Mubartak, was necessary to save the regime, I am all for it. What mattered is that the regime backed by the army remain.
Democracy in Egypt is a pipe dream. It would be very bad for Israel as the Egyptian people would love to cancel the peace with Israel. Israel has confidence in Suleiman. So do I.
Felix Belman defended Mubarak and has always been against Obama.
I never realized I had the power of an enabler?
I just call them correctly and you incorrectly,but then I am not a dialectic materialist like you are so our visions and POV start from different premises and inputs. Funny that in all of your diatribes against me you never factually and in any context refute any of my positions.
Why is that Felix? I have a POV and I cited them in some contextual detail. You may disagree with any or all of them but you ignore the details of my argument or positions and attack me personally. I don’t mind the attacks but sans any constructive arguments for your position against mine, all that’s left to you are sour grapes attacks against me personally.
For three Years I fought against the withdrawal from Sinai against Begin. I was ethnically cleansed by the Begin Government supported by an overwheming majority of Jews both in and out of Israel. I fought in two wars in Sinai. Gave ten year of my prime years to a project supported by the Israeli government. I lost a house I built from zero.
I can say that I paid a direct and personal price for that agreement with Egypt. Before moving to Yamit, I worked in the oil fields for almost 2 years on an oil rig. I know a little about what we gave up, (Economic independence) which if pursued could have translated into political independence 20 years ago. I gave a few interviews to the NYT in 1980-81 where I predicted then more or less the events of Gush Katif and the return of the status quo ante of the situation before Camp David Agreements. I was just off target by 10-15 years.
No politician either from the left or right is thrilled with the prospect of saying or even admitting they were wrong. They will compoound their initial error by pursuing wrong and dangerous policies rather than having to confront and admit they were wrong, this is at least part of what has happened till now. ‘We have made a covenant with death, and with the nether-world are we at agreement; when the scouring scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us; for we have made lies our refuge, and in falsehood have we hid ourselves’;Isiah 28
I can’t tell you with any exactitude when the next war with Egypt will be but I can say with certainty that it will. Our politicians know it, Our military commanders know it, and I know it. IMO, the longer delayed the higher the cost and pain to us. Egypt with a push can be a nuclear power within a couple of years and they have all the military hardware and probably a few of the Saudi Nukes given to them by Pakistan for funding the Islamic Bomb at their disposal. Iran is on a roll and it seems with the backing of Obama. We are the spoiler.
Who are those Yamit82s?
I never knew I had so much power and influence? If I had I would have changed our position years ago. I just give my opinions as I see them Felix I have no power or influence, even my dog doesn’t listen to me.
Before you can make such an accusation first learn what it means to be a Jew. Did I ever call you a monstrous atheistic Trotskyist?
How have I or anyone else here helped bring the MB to a position of influence in Egypt? What lie? Most of the commenters supported your positions more or less. So what are you babbling about?
Maybe in the short-run but never in the long-run. The Saudis are the main supporters of Sunni Terror and propagators of Islam in the world.
Ted I think agrees but said he considered Mubarak the better of two bad options. I disagree. Obama throwing Mubarak to the dogs is what we needed to drive home the message that we can never look to anyone else other than ourselves for our own security. Better face the reality and truth now than have it tested when our existence is on the line.
I can’t but Israel can.
Have a drink of Irish whiskey and think before you explode again with another plethora of inane invective.
Here is exposed for all time the rotten ROTTEN nature of the politics of this total bullshitter )from the very first day he unfortunately teamed up with a then good web site of Israpundit this so called Yamit82
He is incapable of defending ever a single Jew on the planet
He refused here in recent few weeks to once defend Mubarak against the Fascist Nazi Muslim Brotherhood which is what the battle in Egypt has been about all the time
Talk about confusion it comes in spade fulls from Yamit82
He was welcomed on this site, the red carpet was laid out for him by Belman, how I remember that! Belmand thought he had a catch! Well he got a rotten big fish in Yamit82, a veritable monster of the deep!
And Joseph Alexander Norland ran from the fight with Belman and Yamit82 that is the gods honest truth of the matter
And there were plenty others ran from the fight with Yamit82 stand up Pearlstein and North, where are YOU now??? You ran from the fight you political phonies!!!
Thanks to the Yamit82s of the world the situation is changed to the great disadvantage of Israel.
There is no doubt that Obama is a Jihadist with Stalinist pro fascist Islam leftist connections
But Belman PALIN REFUSED ALSO TO DEFEND MUBARAK Palin was silent for days and days then talked about Mubarak in the past tense
Belman you can pull the wool over some peoples eyes but you will never pull the wool over me and wedefendisrael
It was you Belman who covered from the very beginning for this monstrosity of a Jew Yamit82
And every one of you on Israpundit have been part of thi s coverup
The comment 3 above of Yamit82 should be made into a special poster with the heading “This is exactly how the Jews entered the death camps following the great betrayals of 1933”
Example of extreme duplicity by Yamit82 courtesy of Belman:
You are all involved in the ascent to power of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt
You have all in recent weeks been involved in the collosal lie
There are times when the friend of my enemy can indeed be your friend and ally
Yamit in that formulation has ENABLED Obama to oust Mubarak, bring on the Muslim Brotherhood, open up the Sinai to Al Qaida and Hamas, and there is not a damned thing that that crook Barak and Yamit82 his enabler can do about it
The lot of you go to hell!
Natan, your statement
“The Saudis fear an Iranian takeover of the entire Middle East and will stick with us for our military help.”
is Deluded, with a capital D for reasons
1. With Mubarak gone in a popular revolot, it’s a given that the Saudi royal family will fall or reform. In fact, aligning with Iran may be a way of staying in power. It is a cunning move by them. Most Saudi’s support Iran going nuclear. The rulers did’t but if they fear being toppled this is a cunning move by them to retain power and still be people friendly.
2 This is even more relevant. The irrelevance of the US on the world stage, is something that a lot of Americans do not grasp.
The knee-jerk anti Obama stuff posted here is plain silly. Saudi is not going over the Iranian camp! The Saudis fear an Iranian takeover of the entire Middle East and will stick with us for our military help.
Meanwhile, Obama, like anyone in charge in the US, is undermined by Egyptian president, who said he would leave but did not. Now, he has gone. What we have now is a large turnout of both middle class professionals and unemployed and lowly paid lower class people risking all for DEMOCRACY…I seriously doubt that radicals will take over and turn parlimentary rule, anticipated, into religious nuttism.
Given your anti_Obama stance, answer one question: do you believe the Egyptian army should fire upon the thousands protesting so that a dictator can remain in power?
http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/
There we go Suleiman next
Bert may be right. Or maybe it’s just inexperience and a failure of imagination.
“The conversation between President Barack Obama and Saudi King Abdullah early Thursday, Feb. 10, was the most acerbic the US president has ever had with an Arab ruler, debkafile’s Middle East sources report. They had a serious falling-out on the Egyptian crisis which so enraged the king thatsome US and Middle East sources reported he suffered a sudden heart attack. Rumors that he had died rocked the world financial and oil markets that morning ”
Where do they get this stuff? The onion?
“was the most acerbic the US president has ever had with an Arab ruler”
I’m not an obama fan but if he is pissing off the saudis he is probably doing the right thing.
More and more it seems that Obama really wants to advance the power of radical Islam. Nothing else makes sense. The result will insure that Iran and its allies will be even more likely to attack Israel. Such a war, possibly nuclear, would likely interrupt world oil supplies. And what would oil at $200 or $300 per barrel do to the U.S. economy? Perhaps Obama knows the answer is is deliberately pushing for this event so America is even more vulnerable to Islamic radicals. We are all in big trouble.
If Mubarak is good for the Saudis it can’t be good for us. The friend of my enemy is not a friend. In this case none are friends of ours and to different degrees can be considered our enemies. If Obama said to the Saudis, it’s Us or Mubarak? The King might really have a fatal heart-attack.
Conclusion: Israel should therefore become Americas enemy?
The instance mentioneed above is with Pakistan. Inserting Egypt, Israel and Saudi Arabia into the sentence would also yield a true statement. The US government has never been as confrontational as it is under Obama. He’s like the neighborhood bully, spoiling for a fight — with his friends only. He’s afraid of all his enemies.