Caroline considers this government to be a disaster and she sets out why. I am not sure she is correct.
Starting at 45 minutes she discusses the Courts, Judges and the legal system. YOU DON’T WANT TO MISS IT.
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@Reader
Your suggestion of emotion dictating my judgement is unfair and unwarranted. Reasonable men may disagree for reasons beyond emotion, and they are best served when emotions rise they be set aside and not utilized as motivation for unwise responses.
Also, men may speak of differences of opinion without cat calls or belittling each other with such demeaning judgements which have no support. I rarely respond in emotion, Reader, and have yet to do so with you. My responses which might bear a semblance of emotion to you is my great concern for such foolish policy moves or considering my every potential ally is a villain.
I have treated you with respect, I believe, while you continue to ridicule and make repeated slights, both of which would sensibly lead me to believe if either of us hold emotion as a motive of their writings it would be you. I would not have addressed this point and have gone to great lengths to ignore the obviousness in your sharp and often brutal responses to unprovoked commentary for many weeks now.
I still would not have addressed it at this point as I have judged it to be part of your nature, but you have seen fit to label me as you have, and I felt a need of a fair response, which I believe this is – devoid of hostility or emotion.
So I will leave you to your analysis of the whole picture, as you describe it, and only request that, in our future exchanges you be a little less sharp, unless your emotion is so unbridled you can not master it.
@peloni
I watch people’s behavior in context and then make my conclusions.
I also prefer to see and try to analyze the whole picture/process rather than to respond emotionally to the latest event.
This is why our “opinions” differ.
@Ted Belman
Absolutely! Let them march.
@Reader
Reader I don’t really disagree with you beyond the fact that you seem to think everyone is a provocateur. And, OK, I can’t prove you are wrong, but you really aren’t convincing me Bibi, Gantz or Ben-Gvir are such rogues. And you seem convinced they all are. Do you think Bennett and Shaked are as well? If not, why not. And if you do then I definitely have nothing else to add. And no, I am not suggesting they are provocateurs, but they are forming a gov’t with Abbas not the others. With respect, I just see this as a great concern that takes form in you mind without any serious basis – just my opinion.
Regarding the parade – I didn’t say the Arabs are afraid of anything. They were given a significant signal of support from the US and prematurely, or not, attacked, murdering and burning while unprovoked by any shouting ‘death to anything’. They are Muslim Brotherhood. They look for signs of weakness of their enemies or moments of their own strength and, finding either, strike out with great violence in an attempt to kill the most innocent of victims. This is what they do. I expect nothing less from them. Which is why I say, if they are rewarded again for threats of violence, it will only embolden them. I am not concerned for the parade and neither are the Muslim Brotherhood. It is a pretext as are all their claims of slight and injustice. But we should not empower them by acquiescing to their demands. Gantz is career military. He has to know this. So, I do join you in questioning Gantz, but for different reasons, of course. Let the police do as needed to keep order and restrain whoever needs it. But they should not cancel that parade. So, we are likely never to agree on these points.
The day we consider marching for our rights, a provocation, we are done.
The Arabs are the provocateurs.
@peloni
Now is NOT the time to show up the Arabs and the Arab street.
The cure may be FAR WORSE than the disease.
Do you really think that the 2 million Israeli Arabs are going to be scared by a provocative march by a few hundred Jews shouting slogans?
Yes, Gantz CAN be in on it because he may have a much greater goal than replacing Netanyahu, namely, the creation of a “Palestinian” state in Judea and Samaria AND Gaza.
And, as I have already mentioned, Netanyahu HASN’T BEEN REPLACED YET.
Right now, Hamas is playing the role of a bad guy and the enemy of the PA which is playing the role of a good guy, the enemy of Hamas, and the legitimate representative of the “Palestinian people” in the UN and elsewhere, so the next task in the process of creation of the Pal state is “Gaza reconstruction guided by Fatah” so the state can be declared in BOTH Judea and Samaria AND Gaza under the same “legitimate, moderate, democratic” ruler.
In reality, both Hamas and Fatah are Iranian proxy terror organizations whose goal is exactly the same.
Unfortunately, the Arabs seem to be a lot smarter than the Jews.
It also looks like they want the land more than the Jews who are not willing to either settle it or to fight for it.
Reader, you really see provocateurs at every blind corner. Well, I disagree with you about Ben-Gvir, but to suggest that Gantz would be involved in such a matter, as it works against his very clear political benefit, is just not rational. He would not create a scenario that would give halt to his long sought political achievement of removing Bibi when he is so near to completing this long desired goal of his.
That being said, if he or anyone else were to halt this parade at this point it would be a great folly. It would embolden the Muslim Brotherhood into making greater threats of violence and acting upon them. Just Gantz’ statement was damaging to our cause, unless it was said for political purpose and then it would still be just as poorly envisioned. The Arab mob is too great a threat to parley with in such a clumsy or political fashion regardless of the motive. To embolden them amid their threats is the opposite of a proper policy. It might appear that the pin is placed back in the grenade, but the reality is that a 10lb bomb is replaced with a 1000lb bomb and the ruin of such explosives is increased 100 fold with every concession made. Their ambitions being fed so by political boons and back-treading maneuvers will cause the opposite of accepting any policy of coexistence. I see this as beyond foolish.
@Reader
Vital interests before the state would not include the parade, and I agree with this. But opposing open concessions to the Arab street demands is. As is opposing the Iran deal in a public manner, and, obviously, opposing the masquerading of any aspect of Oslo as a path towards peace.
So, yes, I agree, these are bigger issues than the parade or the election. But bowing to Arab violence will beget greater and more frequent violence. My disagreement was, and remains, bowing to such threats, but I do respect your ever continued vigilance with regards to the many powers that seek to place us back on the path towards the failed policy known as the Two State Solution as it failed to achieve anything beyond great violence and greater loss of Jewish lives(its only two intended goals).
But my opposition for both a quiet arrangement for the Iran Deal and additional concessions to the Arab street, each lie upon the same rationale as the opposition to the Two State Solution. It should not be vigilance for one but all of these. The newest and most immediate of these threats being the rising of the Arab street as part of a coordinated attack upon the state amid a war, in particular, should be concerning – having so recently betrayed the nation that grants them such privileges, they are likely soon to have a great benefit.
Their award is a political boon and irrespective to their betrayal, but the optics are worrisome and the Arabs are likely not to tease apart such shades of intent. The apprehensions as I refer to are made clear with a substantial basis as it is now apparent that they feel at ease to dictate against the Jerusalem parade as a threatened pretext towards more violence. In the face of such threats, it would be a great folly to acquiesce to such demands, and this should be in complete disregard to any political concerns. Such as they are, these are my thoughts.
Everyone understands that both the last march and this march are provocations (and Ben Gvir is at it AGAIN) [emphasis mine]:
Gantz indicates he’ll demand cancellation of Jerusalem right-wing parade
Defense minister says he will oppose holding highly charged event on Thursday if it requires extraordinary security measures and endangers public order
By Emanuel Fabian and TOI staff Today, 12:25 am
https://www.timesofisrael.com/gantz-indicates-hell-demand-cancellation-of-jerusalem-right-wing-parade/
[NOTE: he didn’t say he will ORDER it cancelled, he only said he’ll DEMAND it]
If the march goes through (especially if it causes more rockets from gaza), it would mean that the current government, the police, Gantz, and Shabak are in on it, and that Ben Gvir really is a provocateur.
I hope the settlers and the National Religious understand that they will be completely discredited if violence occurs as the result of this stupidity, and this could be later used as an excuse to deport the settlers from Judea and Samaria.
Such deportation (half a million people) could mean the end of the state.
@peloni
How about same time next year?
The fact that a “Palestinian” state is being created as we speak – on both sides and across Israel is a hell of a lot of a bigger problem than some march or even the elections, etc.
@Reader
So when might the parade be allowed again or do we need to book an appointment with the Dentist to find out? Can it be next month? Or would next year be better? Maybe we should cancel it altogether. Are there any other inconvenient shows of national sovereignty that the Dentist wants cancelled? Such appeasement of unprovoked violence will be plotting a future path to utter ruin which is why Bennett supported his stated Redlines not to change the Jewish nature of the State.
Such standards are significant and their abandonment will be seen as a weakness that will lead to more and greater Arab violence. But you believe they should forbid this march to appease the Arabs. Abbas would be glad to hear of it. And when next they riot and what new prize will you afford the Muslim Brotherhood then. Maybe the Jews should be kept out of Jerusalem entirely. The Jewish state should not give in to the demands of the Arab street.
Appeasement creates a voracious appetite. Even someone with such incredible naivete can recognize this point. And the riots were not of the Jews making as the TOI article suggests and you believe. And there were no burned Mosques in the Jewish state, but rather many synagogues. And your certainty of the calls of “death to the Arabs” is well supported by Meretz, so you have developed some interesting company to support you in your opinions. I should like to see the support of such a comment unless it is just more Bibi-terror thoughts that fuel such opinions. And you will likely next suggest Netanyahu was behind the rocket attacks too.
The Bibi obsession is pervasive in every aspect of this conversation. Your fears of Bennett cowering back to Netanyahu’s salvation is assuredly not in any likely future. So there is little need to appease the enemy to just to assure Bibi’s political demise. The Bennett gov’t has agreed to offer great benefits to the Muslim Brotherhood in spite of the fact that it was likely they who were behind these recent riots. And yet Jews should not be allowed to conduct the parade as has been done for years? The status quo was thrown off by the riots and then the rockets. It should not be left as such.
If Abbas wants the great gains for the Arabs, they will have to accept at least the status quo, if not more. Don’t you think? Or is this payment just to gain power for this Unity Gov’t? Don’t answer, I know, they will remove Bibi so it must be the correct decision.
@peloni
Do you think this is kids playing in a sandbox showing off their toys?!
They are deliberately marching through the Damascus Gate and the Muslim Quarter barely two weeks after the last ceasefire!
The mere fact that they got the police approval STINKS TO HIGH HEAVEN!
I am now convinced that the last march with the screams “Death to the Arabs!” was a deliberate provocation.
As far as Netanyahu not saying anything publicly – he doesn’t have to and he would be a fool to do so – there are ways to accomplish these things.
I will not even attempt to explain to you what the consequences of this might be (the least of which would be Bennett losing his nerve again and returning to Netanyahu to support the country under fire and thus destroying the coalition) and where it can lead because you are obviously incapable of comprehending this due to your incredible naivete or worse.
@Reader
The cancelled event of the march was on May 10 and is being rescheduled for June 10. The rally would I suspect fall under the Redline referring to the Jewish character of the state that Bennett and his group claim they will uphold, so I would expect him to oppose your calls for acquiescence to the concerns of Tag Meir. There is no mention of Netanyahu calling for the June 10 date and it seems reasonable that further delay should not be necessary.
Should violence be the chosen response to such civil displays of Jewish support in the Jewish capital for the Jewish flag to the point that this “offense” leads these scalawags to fill the streets with burnings and attacks, this new gov’t will have a need to be able to deal with it. If we accept the premise that this is a fragile time and such events as this march must be delayed so that this fragile gov’t is not shattered by the posibility of this violence, where does it end.
Should such events celebrating Jewish events in Jerusalem or elsewhere in Israel be prevented so as not to bring the Arab ire to a boil and spoil this great gov’t which as diverse as it is, might be too fragile to deal with such violent outbreaks as a riot in the capital? This is silly consideration, but more, it is a dangerous offering to our enemies. Let them march. Let the Arabs do as they see fit.
Their cooperation in the gov’t is set to gain them sizable benefits. Should such payments not be sufficient to have the Dentist assure their passive cooperation for even a small parade that has been practiced for years in exchange that this gov’t could be formed to award these sizeable gifts, it would be best known sooner than later, don’t you think?
I am presuming that the desire to put off this parade is not just a point of political justification to make certain that Netanyahu is removed at whatever cost, because that would be exactly what you are accusing him of having arranged in reverse.
For those who were hoping that Netanyahu pulls another “adroit maneuver” out of his sleeve (this time it is really a very dirty trick), here it is [emphasis mine]:
To fight to keep your premiership is one thing but to risk another wave of violence both inside the country AND from Gaza WHILE negotiating with the US for the Iron Dome resupply, just to scuttle the Knesset vote on June 14 and to prolong Netanyahu’s rule is BEYOND EVIL.
This proves to me the point I made previously that Netanyahu MUST stay in power because HE IS THE ONLY ONE who can be counted on to push through the two-state Final Solution (or something even worse) ASAP because the tactics he employs are just too desperate for ANY politician.
I hope Likud realizes that it is being destroyed together with Netanyahu and that they may possibly be destroying the country at the same time.
I hope Caroline Glick is happy now.
Government will NOT be left-wing. It is a mix of Right, Center and Left. The right has safety blocks and the power to block things.
Caroline is not being remotely analytical but pure negative.
One thing I don’t agree with Caroline about is her contempt for the British royal family.
She doesn’t grasp that the reason people all around the world were shocked and saddened by Princess Diana’s death was that she was by far the most attractive and lovable woman to be in the public eye during the entire twentieth century. No only was she gorgeous, but she was enormously charming, and was notable for her acts of charity and her sympathy for the sick and impoverished. Also, she was honest in public about painful personal matters even when it was not in her interest to do this.
Caroline and her colleague is 100 percent correct. Biden, Shaked, Sa’ar are headed for the same fate of Ramsay McDonald in Britain from 1931-35 when he deserted his longstanding political principles and allegiance to the Labour Party to form a “National Unity” government with the Conservative Party, which he had always opposed in the past. MacDonald and this handful of his fellow defectors of the Labor Party found that they had no power in the “National Unity” government and were forced to rubber-stamp policies that they had always opposed.
MacDonald’s mental and physical health collapsed rapidly as he found himself rejected as a traitor by all his old friends, and not respected by his new allies. Nobody loves a traitor. He was forced out of office once the Conservatives no longer needed him. His health continued to decline, and he died in less than two yeears after leaving office.
Bennett, Shaked and Sa’ar probably know nothing about this past British history. But if they were well educated in twentieth century history, they would grasp the significance of the MacDonald tragedy and would take heed.