While Obama proposes ’67 lines plus swaps, the Arab League are willing to endorse “small shifts” in Israel’s 1967 borders, by means of “minimal” land swaps of identical size. The PA has offered to swap 1.9% or the land whereas Olmert and Livni want 6 to 10% exchanged. Bottom line is that a deal cannot be arranged. The Arabs are hard lined as ever and Obama is backing them. Ted Belman
Netanyahu worried Kerry drifting toward Arab League stance on two-state solution
By Barak Ravid and Jack Khoury, HAARETZ
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his aides fear that U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry will accept the Arab League definition of the borders for a Palestinian state and the principle of territorial exchanges.
Netanyahu and his advisers believe the Arab League declaration could undermine Israel’s position in negotiations with the Palestinians, according to an Israeli source familiar with talks held in the past two days.
On Monday, the Arab League endorsed a Mideast peace plan that would allow for small shifts in Israel’s 1967 border, moving it closer to the two-state concept endorsed by U.S. President Barack Obama.
“The prime minister’s advisers are not keen about the Arab League’s announcement,” the source said. “Netanyahu and his advisers believe it would have been better had this announcement not been made.”
The source said that while the aides acknowledge positive parts of the Arab League’s announcement, such as the desire to renew the peace process, they see more disadvantages in it than opportunities.
Netanyahu and his aides’ objections result from the emphasis in the Arab announcement that they are willing to endorse “small shifts” in Israel’s 1967 borders, by means of “minimal” land swaps of identical size.
In recent years the Palestinians have said they were ready to exchange 1.9 percent of the West Bank’s area.
Former Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and former Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni said they were willing to accept land swaps of 6-10 percent of the West Bank’s area. That would allow Israel to retain many more settlements than the smaller land exchange the Palestinians favor.
The American administration’s position, expressed in Obama’s speech in May 2011, is that the Palestinian state’s borders must be based on the ‘67 borders with territorial exchanges, without mention of their size.
A few days later Obama added that the Palestinian state’s borders must take into account the changes made since 1967, i.e. the large settlement blocs.
The Israeli source said Netanyahu and his aides see the Arab League’s declaration as a “trick” that could determine opening terms for negotiations that would be bad for Israel.
The fact that Kerry stood beside Qatar’s prime minister while he was reading the announcement increased Netanyahu’s aides’ suspicions toward Kerry.
“Netanyahu and his advisers aren’t sure where Kerry is going and where he stands regarding the Arab announcement,” he said.
Netanyahu’s aides fear Kerry’s news conference with the Arab League representatives could mark a drift in the American position on the Palestinian state’s borders and land swaps, moving it toward the Arab position of “small” border shifts and minimal land swaps of identical size.
PM:’Paper doesn’t promise a thing’
Netanyahu did not address the recent development on the Arab Peace Initiative on Wednesday. He didn’t say a word about it even in a closed meeting with senior Foreign Ministry officials.
Netanyahu said he was working for the resumption of the peace talks and hoped negotiations with the Palestinians would soon be resumed. He said that an initiative is being put together that includes economic solutions for the Palestinians together with a political plan.
The prime minister added during the meeting that any peace agreement would require “reliable and durable” security arrangements, since, in his words, “paper doesn’t promise a thing.”
Netanyahu said he was not setting preconditions for the resumption of the talks with the Palestinians and was ready to discuss all the issues at the negotiating table. The demand to recognize Israel as a Jewish state, he said, was not a condition for the start of the talks, but rather for their successful conclusion.
Chief Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erekat said on Wednesday that recent comments by Arab League officials did not represent an opening for peace talks if Israel did not agree to a two-state solution based on the 1967 borders.
On Monday, Arab League officials told U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry and Vice President Joe Biden that the league was still committed to the plan it proposed in 2002. After signing a peace treaty based on the 1967 borders and the establishment of a Palestinian state with East Jerusalem as its capital, all Arab nations would normalize relations with Israel.
“Netanyahu has to say ‘1967,’” Erekat told Nazareth-based Radio Ashams. “If he doesn’t say that, there’s nothing to talk about. For us, what the Arab League delegation presented in Washington is no different from the official Palestinian position.”
Erekat noted that the Palestinian Authority had negotiated in the past based on the 1967 borders and had been willing to adjust them with land swaps on either side of the Green Line. “We don’t see that as recognition of the settlement blocs, as some commentators on both sides try to interpret it,” Erekat said. “For us, every stone in the settlements constitutes a violation of international law, so it’s impossible to talk about Palestinian consent regarding the settlements.”
“Our position is clear: As long as Netanyahu does not say the number 1967, there’s nothing to talk about. Maybe he needs to undergo psychological therapy to utter that number,” Erekat added.
A senior Palestinian official close to the talks told Haaretz that the Palestinian position on resuming negotiations was clear. This position was expressed to the Americans during Obama’s visit to Ramallah in March, and during meetings between Kerry and Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas.
The official said that for the PA, this was an opportunity for Kerry to present an option that would lead to the resumption of talks based on the 1967 borders.
@ Michael Devolin:
Before I was born my Father taught law at the U of Chicago,I can’t believe how theiir standards have fallen.
“I think Obama needs to go to law school.”
Obama needs to go, period.
UNRWA needs to be dismantled ASAP. A fabrication of the West in violations of the laws of most Western countries. The weaker these Muslim countries become the more intransigent and the greater their support from the West.
The war of the West against the Jews continues unabated.
IL must impose her own limits and refuse to compromise her security.
Absurd.
No worries. Just let Kerry’s efforts smash to pieces on the rock of recognition of Israel as the Jewish state. Another clown gone the way of Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, et al. Makes no never-mind to Israel or the rest of us.
@ yamit82:
Hide your mothers, wives and daughters!!!!!! Roughnecks in twon.
@ yamit82:
http://greyfoxbluegrass.com/gfblog/2010/10/11/video-gibson-brothers-hand-me-down-my-walking-cane/
I learned the Hard-shell version..All my sins are taken away, in honor of the Ol’possom, he can use some forgivness cause Tammy is waiting for him.
Honey Bee Said:
Sure do. LOL
George Jones R.I.P
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9u9-TbROzlY
@ yamit82:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWqbazi67Uw A warning
yamit82 Said:
My poor King David,have you no Abbashaw.
Honey Bee Said:
pie,cake. I have a sweat craving tonight.
yamit82 Said:
Of what? pie,cake, steak meat?
Monthly increases in Gaza rocket attacks
PEACE!!!! 😉
@ Bernard Ross:
Keiser Report – Episode 437
Honey Bee Said:
Yeah
@ yamit82:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvlTJrNJ5lA In a nutshell
yamit82 Said:
Arrcording to the Cowboy code of honor , it means stand tall and resolute for what you believe in and to be a mench. But you are a man and a warrior and from your post I know you know damn well what it means. xx000
Can’t kid a kidder
Honey Bee Said:
I always wondered what that meant?
Bert Said:
One must always gird-up ones loins, and remeber what tey stand for and against.
Laura Said:
He also betrayed his own comrades in arms.
As usual, the only comment that interests me on this posting is Yamit’s reference to a poll which shows that 40 per cent of the Arabs in Shomron and Yehuda approve of suicide bombing.
Why do I like that news? Because it is the clearest evidence that the Jewish state and nation never can achieve peace with any or all of the Arab states and the assorted Arab nations. Which means that perpetual war, albeit at a relatively low level of intensity, is a precondition for the existence of the Jewish state and for the ingathering of peoples from the various remaining Jewish diasporas.
And why do I approve of that precondition? Because Israel must grow in population and national power, or it will eventually be killed off.
And if that is so, then Israel must expand the size of its national territory, to the north into Lebanon, the northeast into Syria, the east into Trans-Jordan. the south into Saudi Arabia, and the southwest through the Sinai Peninsula as far as the Gulf of Suez.
And because too many Jews of the ruling circles seem more concerned with obeying the nonsense of international opinion and what passes for international law, then these same ruling class Jews imagine they need solid alibis for taking lands from the enemies of their own Jewish nation.
I consider myself a Jewish nationalist in the tribal sense of that term. And ever since I learned about practical Zionism from Dr Yisrael Eldad of the old Lehi leadership days, and from Rav Meir Kahane — the only Jewish religious figure whose intellect and faith ever interested me — I have come to understand that any Jew who supports Zionism and the State of Israel but who cannot bring himself or herself to understand the need for utter and implacable ruthlessness in dealing with our perpetual enemies, is a fool unworthy of the grace of haShem and the fellowship of the eternal Jewish nation.
Arnold Harris
Mount Horeb WI
Russian intelligence and the Boston Marathon bombing
http://www.worldtribune.com/2013/05/02/russian-intelligence-and-the-boston-marathon-bombing/
Foreign vote-count firm expands U.S. reach through Soros
Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2013/05/foreign-vote-count-firm-expands-u-s-reach-through-soros/#wHGspFYJp8miSrRH.99
They SHOULD be suspicious towards that scoundrel Kerry. This is a man who betrayed his OWN country.
yamit82 Said:
Has anyone considered that an agreement of any kind will likely allow a return of pal refugees to the PA controlled west bank, or state, and will bring millions of arabs to the west bank? Then they will have a couple of more million terrorists within reach. Reaching any agreement will probably allow this return. Suicide by agreement.
Subject: Not parody: Ami Ayalon: Base Israel security
on Palestinian forces with international forces
Not parody: Ami Ayalon: Base Israel security on Palestinian forces with
international forces
Dr. Aaron Lerner Date: 30 April 2013
This morning on IDF Radio, former Shin Bet head and Labor Party MK Ami
Ayalon began his live interview by citing his long years of experience in
security matters as compared to the security experience of Minister Uzi
Landau as the basis for the legitimacy of his views over those of Landau,
who interviewed immediately before him on the program. (While minister
Landau “only” reached the rank of Major in the IDF, it should be noted that
he has served as chairman of the Knesset Foreign Affairs and Defense
Committee, chairman, Subcommittee for the Control of the IDF, chairman,
Joint Committee for the Defense Budget and also as a member of these
committees over the years.)
Ayalon, who for years has been active in promoting various programs to
create a sovereign Palestinian state, explained that Israel’s security
should be based on relying on Palestinian security forces bolstered by
international forces.
It is important to note that this was not a comedian impersonating Mr.
Ayalon trying to show how out of touch with reality Mr. Ayalon is but
instead Ami Ayalon himself.
For some reason, while program anchor Razi Barkai saw fit to spend
considerable time probing Minister Landau with questions relating to the
logic behind his position, Barkai had no follow up questions for Ayalon but
instead asked him his position on the initiative to require a national
referendum in the event that an agreement is reached with the Palestinians.
Ami Ayalon responded that Prime Minister Netanyahu “is correct that a
decision of this magnitude requires approval by a mnational referendum.”
Unlike Yisrael Beiteinu head Liberman, Minister Landau also said he supports
a national referendum.
Dr. Aaron Lerner, Director IMRA (Independent Media Review & Analysis)
@ Bernard Ross:
Some things never change. The U.S. never stops pressuring Israel to accept a U.S. sponsored betrayal and always violates promises made to Israel. The Arabs never give up their demands for Israel to be dismantled in stages and they never stop lying. The Israeli leaders remain stupid and corrupt and can never stand tall and bold for Jewish rights. It is only the wild excess of the Arabs that barely tips the balance against reaching another insane “agreement” like Oslo. But the Israeli left still tries to commit national suicide in the name of a fake peace.
yamit82 Said:
For more thaten 65 yrs the Arabs have expressed the violent actions towards the Jews,why do we expect anything to change? They are what they are,it is time to deal with reality.
Exclusive: Kerry’s plans double peace track: Israel vs Palestinians and vs Arab League
DEBKAfile Exclusive Report May 2, 2013,
Exclusive: Kerry’s plans double peace track: Israel vs Palestinians and vs Arab League
DEBKAfile Exclusive Report May 2, 2013,
Netanyahu tries to be all things to all Israelis
PMO positive about Arab Peace Initiative proposing “minor” land swaps as part of Israeli-Palestinian agreement, based on the 1967 lines;
Erekat: Might consider minor changes that “don’t harm Palestinian interests.”
Poll: 40% of Palestinians support suicide bombing
Labor: We would join coalition for peace treaty
MK Ben-Eliezer says if Bayit Yehudi pulls out gov’t over Arab League initiative, Labor would replace party to back peace plan.
Labor repeated its commitment to enter the government, if necessary, should it come close to reaching a peace treaty on Wednesday, a day after the Arab League said it would be open to land swaps.
Opposition leader Shelly Yacimovich (Labor) said Tuesday night that her party will “support positive, significant steps toward reaching an agreement.”
@ monostor:
Yes.
http://www.andrewbostom.org/blog/2013/04/30/the-unbearable-lightness-of-alan-dershowitz/
Please read, it explains in plain English the essence of the problem and the sixty odd years of pussyfooting around it.
Hopefully, BB will refuse to say the number 1967.
comment #2 in moderation
Apparently the arabs are able to speak clearly regarding their claims and beliefs. BB, Israel and the Jews in general are seen to be tricky prevaricators because they cannot even bring their mouths to utter that the land belongs to the Jewish people. they are stating that even israel does not believe it has rightful claims to the land. Even if they want to give some away for a faux peace, without these words being said Israel and the jews are the guilty party. the willy trickster has become ensnared in his own cunning. there is no shame in stating that the jews have prevaricated and entered understanding due to the duress of being afraid of the crazy euorpean and arab jew killers and that those understandings are invalid once Israel can withstand threats. It must be stated that Israel has valid legal claims to sovereignty over the entire west bank and that entering negotiations is based solely on evaluating peace prospects and not on any arab claim to sovereignty or land. Israel must cease to be part of propping up the Obama regime which seeks its own capitulation to the muslims. Israel should at least have as much guts as the loser in the war and open its mouth to speak the truth.
All of these positions, including BB’s security focus, strengthen and enable the canard that Israel is an occupying force on the territory of others. The first principle in any return to negotiations which should be clearly stated to the US is that Israel is negotiating over disputed territory which are being claimed by both Israel and the PA. The acceptance of 242 was extorted from Israel by the US based on existential threats. The same thing may be going on right now.
Qatar, along with Saudi and the US, is a funder and organizer of the jihadis in Syria. Perhaps the arabs and Obama are saying that the Jihadis now in Syria can be just as easily set upon Israel instead of the shiites, Hezbullah and Iran. A carrot and a stick. In such a case it would be best for Israel to undermine both Obama admin and the Sunnis. Obama is on the brink of another great scandal with the connections between the boston bombers and his jihadi support. I am recollecting the Hitler Stalin pact which enabled Hitler to take western Europe and the USSR to take part of eastern.
How come nobody reminds these American idiots that the Olso agreements say nothing about “67 borders” as a precondition to negotiations or even as an eventuality of the negotiations and that the only preconditions for negotiations should be Abbas and Erekat uttering the words “Jewish State”. Correct me if I’m wrong but don’t the Olso accords specify that all agreements would be negotiated at the table with NO preconditions. Why are we going along with that. All this foot in the door revising of agreements pisses me off. I think Obama needs to go to law school.