By Ted Belman
IDF warning: We’re stepping up attacks in Gaza
I’m not impressed. Not only have we not re-entered Gaza, we have refrained from using artillery. As you may know, the US criticized Israel for using artillery rather then expensive smart bombs. Screw them, use artillery.
Under no circumstances should Israel look to either the US or the EU to mediate a ceasefire. Been there, done that. It only makes us beholden to them. And we know they are pressing for the ’67 lines.
It is imperative for Israel to state loudly and clearly, that she will never agree to the ’67 lines even with swaps, nor negotiate so long as the EU and the US back such a solution. It is not necessary that we reject a two state solution but we must reject borders based on ’67 lines.
Instead, Israel must punish them into submission and use artillery to do it. If Israel doesn’t want to deliver the coup de gras, then boots on the ground are not necessary. But so long as we keep pounding them, we keep destroying their rockets and military infrastructure. Thus we will be achieving further demilitarization.
Make the war of attrition work in our favour. Arrange for residents of the south to be housed elsewhere so they are not at risk. This will enable us to continue pounding them until they submit, whether it is one week or one month.
Liberman told Channel 2 yesterday that the government needs to spell out “a strategic goal” that encompasses “defeating Hamas, bringing it to submission.”
“That means Hamas waves the white flag,” the foreign minister said. “That is a realistic scenario, and it must be a goal.”
Right on.
Furthermore by rejecting a mediated ceasefire we are avoiding a new peace process.
Make no concessions to get a ceasefire. i.e., no seaport, no opening of borders, no prisoner release, no access to Judea and Samaria. Nothing. Just keep pounding them.
Apparently there are still 500 smuggling tunnels. Encourage Egypt to find and destroy them.
@ Etzel:
Oh good. Someone realized I was being sarcastic.
lol
@ Max:
“So obliviously the problem has been fixed….”
LOL
@ yamit82:
All this idea of given them money to leave is total none sense. Awhile ago I was reading how in the west Bank someone had the idea of paying them to leave but, as soon as the terrorist found out they threaten the population telling them in no uncertain terms that, they will kill any family who participated.Nbody leaves.
I do not understand how easily CA talks about spending the wealth of the Jews in paying them $100,000. per person. Also how their women could go to South America and marry Christians. Their children will be Christians and the problem will be solved.
Pure fantasy but it all ended with the Jews paying for additional Christian soldiers. Right? Jewish money to create more Christians.
Pure fantasy as Ted said, but fantasy to screw the Jews at the end. Gee…CA you always think how to screw the Jews by helping us. Isn’t that nice. Keep dreaming. It is NOT doable.
Besides, it is none of your business if anyone wants to spend $1’000,000.00 or more in celebrating their son’s Bar Mitzvah. Anyone who has that kind of money you cannot tell them how to spend it. As I have said before you are arrogant. Tell your Christian brothers to use their money to buy the fakestinians their freedom from Hamas. I like dweller much better.
Even when he crosses swords with yamit82
CuriousAmerican Said:
Ever consider he meant the Arab and christian half??? 😛
Can’t wait to rape all those women. 🙂 echhhh!!!!!
CuriousAmerican Said:
Then who paid these Palis to Leave???
The countries outside the Palestinian territories with significant Palestinian populations are:
Chile 500,000
Saudi Arabia 280,245
Egypt 270,245
United States 255,000
Honduras 250,000
Mexico 120,000
Qatar 100,00
Germany 80,000
Kuwait 80,000
El Salvador 70,000
Brazil 59,000
Iraq 57,000
Yemen 55,000
Canada 50,975
Australia 45,000
Libya 44,000
United Kingdom 20,000
Denmark 19000
Peru 15,000
Colombia 12,000
Pakistan 10,500
Netherlands 9,000
Sweden 7,000
Algeria 4,030
The majority of the estimated 100,000 Palestinians in the European Union (EU) are in the United Kingdom, France, Germany, Greece, Italy, the Netherlands, Spain and Sweden. Outside the EU is Norway and Switzerland. Germany’s capital Berlin has one of the largest Palestinian communities outside of the Middle East with about 30,000-40,000 people of Palestinian origin residing in the city (~1% of the total population)
Once again curious you are wrong and full of shit!!!!
Palestinians reveal emigration statistics for first time
_______________________________________________________
The above is probably grossly under stated, Yamit
Etzel Said:
Lots in Canada as well – but they are not supposed to be called Honor Killings but domestic violence and femicide (according to Montreal Gazette).
As usual: “The Islamic Supreme Council of Canada, along with other Canadian Muslim organizations, have publicly denounced domestic violence and honour killing as un-Islamic.”
So obliviously the problem has been fixed….
And how would the addition of 1.8 Million Muslim fanatics develop the Sinai? Israel has enough problems with the Muslim Brotherhood. It does not need 1.8 Million more.
Let’s take this to its logical conclusion. If 1.8 Million fanatic Gazan Muslims are such an asset, why isn’t Israel eager to have them develop the Negev?
And if Israel would not let them develop the Negev, what makes you think Egypt – which is fighting the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt – would want these Gazans to develop the Sinai.
Gazans would be more of threat to Egypt in the Sinai that if they remained in Gaza.
You make no sense.
Egypt is concerned enough to keep them out of Sinai.
Egypt would be more concerned if you moved 1.8 Million battle hardened Muslim fanatics to Sinai.
How would this be profitable to Egypt unless Israel pays Egypt?
You said that “the costs should be born by others.” Who are these others? It ain’t gonna be Egypt.
Like it or not, no nation is going to step forward to solve Israel’s problem – nor absorb the costs of doing so – UNLESS SOME PARTY PAYS THEM TO DO SO.
If Israel is not the party to do the paying … who do you have in mind?
Your thinking is Magical.
@ CuriousAmerican:
“Magical Thinking.”
Yes, Mr. Curious American, It will, indeed, take some magical and innovative thinking to resolve this problem.
But when one stops thinking and reads between the lines to find and declare what he unthinkingly feels is the impossible, nothing at all will work.
Egypt does own the Sinai and makes no use of it. If it were developed it could prove to be of immense value to Egypt, an impoverished country with few resources.
Gaza borders on Egypt and is an ever present threat. Egypt is deeply concerned.
Egypt will, I believe, listen to any logical and profitable solution to its Gazan problem.
That constant threat I referred to is not just to Egypt and Jordan but the whole of the Middle East and the rest of the world because a militant Gaza could be the spark that ignites a huge conflagration.
My suggestion is an attempt to circumvent an inevitable bloodbath.
If you and your Magical Thinking can think up a better solution well by all means do. I would welcome it. But it is obvious you have no solution. Perpetual nay sayers will, like you, do their utmost to put down any creative solutions.
Here you are Mr. Curious American. Some more of my lines for you to read between. Have fun.
Mickey Oberman
Again, too many use the wrong arguments. This is a case in point.
In Europe and the USA, in the 1930s, they said there were too many Jews.
Read the tales of horror about secret minorities in the 1930s. Only the minority they were talking about was not Arabs.
In the 1930s a common claim was: “Over 100,000 Jews in Hollywood and Jews are revolutionaries. They change names to hide who they are.”
In the 1930s the complaint was that Jews refused to assimilate and demanded that we cater to their demands. Exemptions from parking regulations on Sabbath …
THE REAL REASON TO HATE ISLAM IS THAT ISLAM IS BACKWARD AND VICIOUS.
The Japanese, and Hindi are often insular and only slowly assimilate. Japanese communities have Japanese schools like Hebrew schools.
But rarely are they mindlessly violent like the Arabs, which is the real reason for hating Islam.
STICK TO WHAT IS IMPORTANT.
There are already too many Islamists in The United States, You might want to see how things are in Dearborn Michigan, many more in Detroit, also in Minnesota, New York, and many other States Ive just been told there are over 100,000 in Phoenix Arizona and there have been honor killings not only in Phoenix but New York and other states as well. .
Anywhere the Islamists go, they refuse to assimilate and demand that we cater to their demands.
You might want to watch the Video Posted by Bill Levinson (https://www.israpundit.org/archives/63599399) “How Islam is taking over the world: Islamization Explained”. For example Butterball brand Turkeys are now Halal. Many other places are serving Halal meats. The brutality of Halal slaughter is horrendous.
The idea that they would bring money with them has not proven to be the case they are taught by their Islamist brothers how to work the system and place even a bigger tax burden on the host country. Check out what has happened to the Countries in Europe, and the United States as well, muslims see collecting state benefits as receiving jizya from the infidels.
The success of proselytization the in terms of percentage, Islam is found to be the fastest-growing Pseudo-Religion in the world. Many people are deluded about the “Christian Religion” they were brought up in and are easily swayed by the propaganda of the “peaceful” aspects of the ideology called Islam. they would convert anyone wishing to marry one of them.
“The women will marry Christian men, and produce nice Christians”. Most of the Islamist families I know their daughters who are educated in the university’s, still have no desire to step into a “Christian Church” if they could even find one, they are indoctrinated from childhood that Jews and Christians are evil and will burn in hell. Even with their university educations they retain what they were taught as children.
Islamist men are seducing Western women and these women fall for it due to the idea of diversity. The diversity is, convert to Islam and become my beast of burden. This also requires secure borders, something the E.U. countries and the United States are sorely lacking.
Islamists do not want to work, they want to take what someone else has built. There was never any interest by arabs in the area of Israel until Jewish Settlers started buying land and developing it at the end of the 19 century through the time when Israel returned to the land that God gave them. As soon as these Pioneering Jews developed the land and made it productive the arabs wanted it.
Today it’s not about a “home land It is about the total eradication of the Jews. No matter where these arab pretenders are placed they will still want Israeli land and all Jews everywhere dead.
As I’ve said before it would be more beneficial to pound Gaza into rubble, every house, every building, then bulldoze that rubble into the Mediterranean Sea to be used as a foundation for reefs. Then pump sea water into the tunnels and pave over the entire Gaza Strip for use as Israel finds beneficial.
Egypt is helping you now. How can you send them to Egypt, if Egypt does not want them?
Not without Egypt’s permission which she will not give.
And you expect Egypt to do this for you?!!!!
You have not yet explained to me how you are going to get Egypt to even take them.
Egypt now has to take your problem? And then pay for it?!
They are less of a threat to Egypt in the Gaza than in the Sinai. They would not agree to this, nor would they agree to pay for this.
This is what I mean by Magical Thinking.
Israel supporters come up with these ideas all of which depend on some other nation(s) taking on Israel’s problems and absorbing the costs just to make Israel’s life easier.
It ain’t the way the world works. If Israel wants the Gazans to be absorbed by someone else, Israel will have to foot the bill.
In other words – Israel is going to have to pay them to leave.
It may be unjust, but nothing else will work.
OR — Move them all to the Sinai which is virtually vacant land.
It is much larger than Gaza and they can be settled far away from the border with Israel.
They will have to be carefully watched/policed for a generation or two.
Israel could help them turn the desert into productive land. But the costs should be born by others who will be relieved not to have them as a constant threat.
Mickey
“Pound Hamas into submission. Reject a mediated ceasefire.”
Amen.
Mickey
But the natural increase in 70,000 over both area (JS&Gaza)
@ CuriousAmerican:Presently 20,000 Palis emigrate. But we see that the world doesn’t fight for our right of self defense or for better borders than the ’67 lines. The world could solve our problem if they arranged to take in 1 million Arabs from Gaza and allowing Israel to annex Gaza. Gaza would then cease to exist. But the world doesn’t do this. They want us to choke on them. They also support the arabs and not us. Why should anyone assume that the world will solve our problem by taking in the arabs. There is no indication that they are trying to help us.
@ Topaz:
All your proposals are easier said than done. I wish it could be done as easily as you describe it.
I remember when the Gulf War General Swarkoff with the experience from Viet Nam decided to block all the journalists from the front to prevent loosing the war on their reporting whatever their interpretation of the facts were. That could be implemented right now. Excellent idea. Many of the other ideas are wonderful but it will take time and money. The very advanced weapons which Israel has should not be used when other cheaper alternatives can do the job. Israel is not a wasteful country as the US. Choose our options intelligently.
They might if the Arabs came with money. Particularly Brazil which has 15 Million Arabs, Argentina 4 Million, and Chile which has over half the Christian Palestinians on the planet
IN 1938, the Jews were not allowed to bring their money OUT of Germany, so no one wanted poor Jews.
@ Ted Belman:
Ted,does anyone remember reading about the EVIAN conference?
How many countries agreed to take in the Jews? That is how the murder of the Jews started. The absence of any country who will help the Jews sealed their future.
How many countries would agree to take the arabs?
Pure fantasy.
Just because a government has been elected, does not mean that it must be ALLOWED by the Electorate to continue governing.
I do not think so; but your view cannot be ruled out. Many Palestinian youth, could be moved to the West as individuals, though not groups. 10,000 here to USA spread out. 30,000 to Brazil spread out. 4,000 to Canada, spread out. 5,000 to France, 20,000 to Argentina, etc. The old would die off. The key is to move young individuals to force assimilation, not families or clans.
That is what is happening. Give the Arabs credit, the Arabs have played the Palestinian hand masterfully. From a position of weakness in 1949, the Arabs have brought Israel to almost total international condemnation and disdain.
They know themselves that Islam is a cancer, and to destroy a body politic, all they have to do is make sure that the cancer remains inside Israel. Soon enough it will mestastasize. No one saw this in 1949.
The Arabs know the potency of their own toxin. It is how they destroyed Christianity in North Africa, and how they penetrated Anatolia (Turkey) and Pakistan and Persia (Iran).
Unlike Westerners, the Arab play the long term game.
@ Topaz:
A big DITTO to your entire post.
I feel like there is no use in writing or talking. I believe that only the Israeli people can stop this, they must finally march on the Knesset and demand that strong military leaders take control and end this slide to cooperation in destruction. Any sane country knows what to do. And does it FAST. Very sad, But, here it goes anyway.
) It is no longer ’67 lines. It is 1948 lines that is the current demand.
2) Pound Gaza into rubble. ALL buildings not homes. Total blockade. Total surrender. Do it in two hours. Send a message to the world, “Don’t mess with us.” AND “Jewish lives are OUR priority.”
3) Legally indict ALL terrorist leaders, perpetrators. Then find them wherever in the world they are hiding. This does not stop. Be silent, admit nothing.
4) Use advanced technology to find the tunnels, blast them all from the air with advanced weaponry that Israel already has.
5) Stop holding back with artillery or any other weapon the US is demanding Israel avoid. This agreement is madness.
6) RESPOND TO EACH ATTACK, for each person living in Israel that is wounded or killed, WITH 18 TIMES THAT. EVERY TIME. NOW.
THIS IS WHAT WILL BE RESPECTED. If Hamas sends 50 rockets, Israel sends 50 times 18, within minutes. . If the perpetrators come from other than Gaza, hit Gaza anyway, send that message. ONLY fear of an immediate and overwhelming response will get the Quiet for Quiet that Israeli leaders say they are seeking
7) The borders with Gaza, Jordan, Sinai, Lebanon, Syria. Create a wall far, far down, as deep and as thick as it takes. Put up a fence around Gaza, as high and as thick as it takes. Electronics to detect any incursions. Strong surveillance from the sea and air.
8) Israel must finally, finally, finally, finally, finally, finally, finally STOP letting anyone speak to the media who is not specifically trained. WHY is Israel speaking during WAR. Another stupid.
9) BECOME FINANCIALLY AND MILITARILY INDEPENDENT, FINALLY!!!!! Send out a call to those who love Israel for financial help to remove that yoke.
10) Expel ALL UN, NGO’s, the Red Cross-Red Crescent, journalist entities from Israel and from Gaza. Do NOT let them come back, until this deed is done. Fast.
11) RE: The Arabs out of Gaza and Samaria and Judea. NO ONE WILL TAKE THEM, THESE COUNTRIES KNOW THE TROUBLE THEY WILL BE IMPORTING. MONEY talks. So, AFTER surrender, rebuild GAZA to a thriving country, ONLY with Israeli money.
12) No possibility of prisoner to swap.
@ CuriousAmerican: I meant elsewhere in Israel.
The idea of paying them to leave could be another fantasy. The world may prefer us to choke on them rather then to take them in. This is a real possibility.
I agree that Israel should pound them into submission either by boots on the ground or by artillery.
But the 500 tunnels is a real exaggeration. Arabs love to boast. From what I read that was an Arab boasting.
Elsewhere?
Do you mean in Northern Gaza? If so you will have to put boots in the ground to clear Northern Gaza, before Hamas is pounded into submission in the South, which will result in the casualties that you see to avoid.
Do you mean another country? That would be ideal, but where?
This however is the weakness in all Israeli arguments.
No nation will take the Palestinians for fear that Israel will never let them back into Gaza, and they will be stuck with them ala what happened in ’48 and ’67.
Egypt will not take the Palestinians in.
Every reasonable Israel plan always ends with this project killer: Some nation, some where will take these Palestinians off of our hands.
Israel has to dispense with this logic.
NO ONE IS GOING TO MAKE ISRAEL’S LIFE EASIER, ESPECIALLY THE ARABS.
No one.
Egypt will not take them. Egypt is even helping you.
Jordan is at peace with you, and will not take them.
That is why I say Israel will have to PAY the Arabs to leave so nations will see Palestinians coming in with wealth, not poverty.
In any event, Right wing Israeli solutions to the Palestinian problem are always saturated with magical thinking.
SAMPLES OF MAGICAL THINKING
1) The world will rush to Israel’s door to help the Jews
2) The Arab states can be persuaded to help their brethren.
3) Israel can repackage the present bantustans (autonomy) in such as way as it will be acceptable to the Palestinians; and these Palestinians will happily accept living under Jewish rule without a vote
4) The world will not notice such a bantustan arrangement.
5) Israel can find nations willing to accept the Palestinians so Israel can become a monocultural Jewish state, while the rest of the world has been encouraged to multiculturalism.
THE REALITY
The only way the world will help the Jews is if there is something in it for the world. Hence: Pay the Arabs to leave.