This post and preface was published in July 4, 2010. It clearly foretold that Israel would be forced to accept the Saudi Plan which is what Kerry/Obama are presently doing. See Secret Peace Talk Contents Revealed By PA Sources..
See also : Henry Kissinger to Iraq in 1975: “We Can Reduce Israel’s Size” in the 2006 issue of Middle East Quarterly;
Kissinger’s statement that the U.S. government would not negotiate Israel’s existence but could “reduce its size to historical proportions,” was also consistent with the position that the Nixon administration had taken in private. More than a year earlier in Damascus, President Richard Nixon told Syrian president Hafez al-Assad that Washington was committed to seeing an “Israeli withdrawal from all the occupied territories” although President Gerald Ford, later promised Israeli prime minister Yitzhak Rabin “positive treatment” of Israel’s desire to retain the Golan Heights. Ford’s promise was not ironclad, however, nor did the White House entertain any secret accords to allow Israel to retain the West Bank and Gaza Strip.[1]
This recent post Saudi Arabia sponsored and funded 9-11 attackers; George W. Bush knew and kept it secret, makes the same point and provides evidence that such was the case since the oil embargo in the seventies. Netanyahu and Sharon knew this. Sharon tried to avoid it by his disengagement plan. Netanyahu acted in accordance with the predetermined plan and froze construction east of the green line and never made a claim for Judea and Samaria. That’s why he didn’t embrace the Levy Report. Instead he is attempting to salvage something by demanding security and recognition. But even such limited demands are not being satisfied. Netanyahu hopes to save face, when he accepts the Kerry framework, by submitting it to the people to accept or reject by referendum.
On the other hand I just spoke to someone who is a regular in the halls of power and he reports that no one in the Prime Minister’s Office will accept such a framework. I hope so. Ted Belman
*****************************************************
This report is entirely believable. I wonder why these details are coming out now. They explain the kind of pressure Netanyahu is under. How can little Israel stand up to a committed America. Why should the PA agree to anything. Negotiations, direct or proximity, are meaningless. These details serve to explain what Patraes meant when he said recently, that Israel is causing American lives. What is to be served by Israel not going public with these details. What is to be served by Israel not enlisting the support of the American people. Time for Israel to hire a PR firm to do just that. Americans would not take kindly to the idea that America has to sacrifice Israel to win in Afghanistan. How pathetic. How unscrupulous. What is so important about winning in Afghanistan. What is important to note is that Saudi Arabia is financing a major war against America. That makes them an enemy not a friend.
And please note that Israel doesn’t even get an Arab peace agreement.
Obama pledged to sell Israel out in exchange for “victory” in Afghanistan.
Obama promises king Israel will withdraw from West Bank, Jerusalem
GEOSTRATEGY-DIRECT
“Obama believes the Saudis are the most important element in his strategy to withdraw from Afghanistan.”
WASHINGTON — President Barack Obama was said to have pledged to Saudi Arabia that the United States would force Israel to withdraw from eastern Jerusalem and the entire West Bank by 2012.
Diplomatic sources said Obama relayed a pledge to Saudi King Abdullah that he would take any measure to ensure an Israeli withdrawal from the West Bank and Jerusalem over the next 18 months. They said Obama relayed the pledge to Abdullah during the president’s trip to Riyad in June 2009, about four months after he assumed office, in exchange for Abdullah’s help to arrange for the end of the Taliban war in Afghanistan.
“Obama believes the Saudis are the most important element in his strategy to withdraw from Afghanistan,” a diplomatic source familiar with the Obama-Abdullah talks, said. “Abdullah said he was ready to talk to Taliban, but asked for a clear and definitive promise to deliver Israel.”
On June 29, Abdullah met Obama in the White House, the third session over the last 18 months. Officials said the two leaders focused on Gulf security and the Middle East peace process.
“This is a very important visit [by Abdullah],” U.S. ambassador to Riyad, James Smith, said.
The sources said Abdullah has demanded U.S. guarantees that Israel would withdraw from the West Bank and most of Jerusalem by 2012. They said the Saudi king also expressed opposition to U.S. arms sales to Israel and Washington’s boycott of the Hamas regime in the Gaza Strip.
Obama’s approach to the Saudis was formulated soon after he entered the White House in late January 2009. In May 2009, Obama sent an envoy, Richard Holbrooke, to Riyad to urge the kingdom to support efforts to facilitate a NATO withdrawal from Afghanistan.
The sources said Abdullah asserted that he wielded significant influence over the Saudi-financed Taliban, the main rebel force in Afghanistan. But the king told Holbrooke, Obama’s envoy to Afghanistan and Pakistan, that he first wanted Washington to adopt and implement the Saudi plan for an Arab-Israeli settlement.
“Holbrooke agreed with everything Abdullah asked,” a source who monitored the meeting recalled. “He [Holbrook] kept saying ‘No problem,’ even to the most outrageous demands. At that point, the king said, ‘I want to hear this from your boss.’”
About two weeks later, on June 3, Obama arrived in Riyad and was greeted lavishly by Abdullah, who also presented him with a thick gold chain that represented the kingdom’s highest honor. The sources said the president, reaffirming what Holbrooke said, pledged to adopt the Saudi plan for an Arab-Israeli settlement, which called for full Israeli withdrawal to the 1967 borders, a Palestinian state and the return of Palestinian refugees to their homes in what was now Israel.
On the following day, Obama flew to Egypt where he announced that the United States would open a “new chapter” with the Muslim world. The president’s speech in Cairo focused on U.S. plans to establish a Palestinian state in the West Bank.
Holbrooke, who helped broker the end of the war in Bosnia in 1995, has long advocated that Washington must be prepared to force Israel into a settlement with the Palestinians in any effort to win Arab support for U.S. policy in the Middle East. Holbrooke, who also reports to Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, was said to have joined senior U.S. military commanders in asserting that Washington’s support for Israel was the key reason for the Arab refusal to cooperate in either Afghanistan or Iraq.
Since the Obama pledge, the sources said, the White House has rejected virtually every Israeli request for U.S. weapons platforms. They said Obama also delayed decisions by the former administration of President George Bush to deliver attack helicopters, air transports, bunker-buster air bombs and Hellfire air-to-ground missiles to the Jewish state.
During his latest meeting, Obama had been expected to urge the 86-year-old Saudi king to reconcile rival Fatah and Hamas movements to facilitate an Israeli withdrawal from the West Bank and eastern Jerusalem. On July 6, Obama was scheduled to meet Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu at the White House.
“The king wants to have from Obama the assurance that he is going to solve the [Arab-Israeli] issue,” Khaled Al Maeena, editor of the Saudi-owned Arab News, said.
The sources said the White House has assessed that Saudi cooperation was vital amid the Taliban offensive in Afghanistan and the dismissal of U.S. commander Gen. Stanley McChrystal. On June 23, McChrystal resigned in wake of a magazine article in which he and other officers criticized Obama’s policy in Afghanistan and the president’s lack of military experience.
“The president has sent constant appeals to Abdullah to obtain a Taliban agreement for a ceasefire that could result in the start of an American and NATO withdrawal,” the source said. “But Abdullah first wants Obama to deliver on his promise concerning Israel. He [Abdullah] wants results before the congressional elections [in November 2010].”
The sources said Abdullah’s impatience with Obama has been exacerbated by Saudi concern over Iran’s nuclear weapons program. They said Riyad has been alarmed by Washington’s failure to stop Teheran’s ballistic missile and nuclear projects and instead pursue diplomacy with Iran.
“We see the issue in the shorter term because we are closer to the threat,” Saudi Foreign Minister Prince Saudi Al Faisal said. “We need an immediate resolution.”
In late 2009, the Saudi leadership sent a message to the White House that called for U.S. assistance to fight Yemeni Shi’ite rebels. The sources said the Saudis asserted that the rebels were being financed and equipped by Iran.
“The Saudis are terrified of Iran, but they can’t bring themselves to admitting that they need help,” the source said. “What they would rather do is publicly show how they are using Washington to do what Iran could never achieve — a full Israeli withdrawal to the 1967 borders without an Arab peace agreement.”
This is outrageous! Wish I had subscribed to Israpundit back in 2010!
President Obama met with Israel’s Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu Tuesday at the White House. Obama told reporters afterwards that America’s bond with Israel is unbreakable. He doesn’t like to admit defeat but he’s tried everything he can think of.
My middle sister was the bitch and I the easygoing well liked by all. Then we reversed personalities,now I am only loved by a few but those few are the ones that matter.
Joy was hurt that the troop leader didn’t like her. Sarah was thrilled the troop leader didn’t like her. Joy wanted to be just like Sarah but she also wanted everyone to like her, and Sarah went out of her way to alienate people she thought were shitheads, so poor Joy was betwixt and between. She grew out of it and became herself, which is a very nice person who never tries to alienate anyone. They must have switched babies at the hospital, because her parents and siblings were always very happy to be offensive.
I can understand Sarah liking the story but why not Joy? I like the story it seems to fit what I know about you three. I can eve envisage it happening in other circumstances as well. 🙂
I love sibling rivalries. I once dated two sisters at the same time, it was interesting.
Vinni let us take care of the food and employment. Embargoes don’t work except in the case of S Africa. They had a very limited economy and there were other internal reasons and They were quite stupid. I predicted we would be little affected by the Global recession, check the archives if you doubt me. We would only be strengthened by a global boycott, and America cutting us loose. Speaking tour been there done that, fuck American Jews, not all of course but most and I wouldn’t give most a second of my unvaluable time. In thirty years you won’t even have a viable community that can call itself Jewish, so why bother. You’re dead Jews walking with no future. You fight to preserve the present but what for.
Every President since Ike has been either on the Saudi payroll or others influenced by the Saudis. Especially the Two Bushes and they were Republicans if I’m not mistaken. Supporting Israel by congressman costs them nothing and many pick up Jewish money because of that support but they always give the president an out like the law requiring America to move the embassy to Jerusalem. Do you see them enforcing their own law? Do you see that Embassy in Jerusalem? It’s all smoke and mirrors and only stupid Jews believe they have any real power or influence. No you don’t not when it really matters or counts. Most American Jews are most concerned with preserving their material gains of the past 30-40 years and will oppose Israel if they believe such support would place that accumulated wealth in any jeopardy.
If American Jews were normal I would encourage them to seek and gain a voice in Israel but who the hell need more liberal leftists. We have more than our share as it is. That would really be suicide for us if Americans were to have a legal voice here.
You still don’t get it, they’re all bad guys and they will sell you out and Us out if given the opportunity and right incentive. Remember one thing, the Blacks and Hispanics are the most anti-semetic of Americans and they are the most violent. Most of your gentile neighbors won’t join them or approve but also won’t help you either. The economy is not going to get better maybe in your lifetime and will get much worse. You will be blamed by your friends for their misfortunes. Letter writing could help but a GLOCK 9mm will even more.
I was in the same Brownie Scout troop my sisters had been in, and had the same troop leader they did. On the first day, she looked at me and said, “Oh, shit. Another one.” Sarah loved that story, but Joy hates it.
I knew you would say something like that.
Why am I not surprised that you were a girl scout? I loved girl scouts, (Cookies)!
That was the motto of my girl scout troop.
No, Yamit, I am explaining Bibi’s position. Precisely because I live here in the U.S., and I don’t live or vote there, I am – out of a sense of rudimentary respect – reluctant to advise a course of action that will make Israel a pariah state, with all that implies. It may be short term, but it will be devastating to Israel’s economy until the storm lifts.
As to writing the PMO, I am under no illusions about this. It cost me nothing except a little bit of my time. Why not? I am well aware that his office probably gets thousands of e-mails a day, that they probably go through several layers of screeners before he sees any of them, and the chances of one of mine getting through aren’t much better than winning the lottery. But what the heck…they must put that e-mail address out there for a reason….
But back to the matter of “where my heart is”, oh yes, it would be easy as hell for me to say from 7,000 miles away, “Give ’em hell, Bibi, damn the torpedoes!”. But where will the jobs come from for the tens of thousands – maybe hundreds of thousands – thrown out of work in Israel when the EU slaps on a trade embargo, along with much of the rest of the world community? Maybe you are independently wealthy, Yamit, or maybe you have your own farm and like some kind of Israeli “mountain man”, are completely independent of the outside world. If so, good for you. How true is that for your fellow citizens over there? Are you going to feed them, Yamit? These are the things Bibi has to take into consideration before he acts, never mind what “the goyim think”.
What I am in your book is of little concern to me. But if you want to prove you have half the balls you claim to, perhaps you might come over here and go on a speaking tour with your views. Let’s see how far you get. The idea of being able to say something from the safety of being 7,000 miles away cuts both ways, pal.
You know little of it, but I can tell you that my activism proves quite the opposite of what you say; I’m not well known outside of my corner of my particular state, but in my neck of the woods, I am very well known as an unapologetic public supporter of Israel, who singularly does not give a damn what the “goyim” think of this, and I don’t have the IDF here to protect me.
Interestingly, the “goyim” by and large here are very supportive of my views! And this does go to support your point about how the Saudis poll here versus Israel. With this you seem to contradict yourself above. On the one hand, you claim that Obama is “no different” than other presidents, but if that were true, how is it that we have this president who is an open lapdog of the Saudis, even as Americans would overwhelmingly disapprove of this? How is it that Congress consistently and overwhelmingly supports Israel, even as only a handful of Congressmen have a significant Jewish vote in their district?
I’d agree with you that we’ve never had a president who has been a “true” friend of Israel, who has even treated Israel with the same respect and consideration that South Korea gets from us (Nixon came close due to the exigencies of the Cold War, and Bush 43 did also for the first nine months after 9-11 until Prince – now King – Abduallah showed up at his ranch and laid down “the law”.). But Obama is a new animal.
“4Infidels” asks above, what kind of superpower we are running here when we have to kowtow to the Saudis to pretty pretty please allow us to pull out of Afghanistan with a fig leaf of dignity and we’ll hand Israel over to you on a silver platter, and to that I reply that is what happens when large segments of the leadership class offer themselves up for sale. Most important, under Obama, we are hardly a “superpower” at all.
The Saudis artificially jacked up the price of oil in 2008 to force the timing of the crash to make sure “their” guy got in. The Saudis paid for Obama’s stint at Harvard, and may have had a relationship with him before that. That bow to the Sauid King was as dead a giveaway as any; he is their pawn and that is that. Where U.S. foreign policy is concerned, Obama is little more than the “Governor General” for the Saudis.
On relevant issues – the handling of the Ft. Hood shooter, the underwear bomber, the prospective trial of KSM in New York, the official prohibition on talking about the “war on terror” and “Islamist extremists”, even the head of NASA saying that his most important mission is to “improve relations with the Moslem world”, Obama is completely at odds with the overwhelming majority of American opinion in a way that no previous president would even dare to attempt…but I’m sure is roundly applauded for his efforts in Riyadh.
Obama, as bad as he is, is the tip of the iceberg, though, though that is a big tip. The bad guys have their tentacles all over the place, throughout the media, academia, etc. This goes back to the PR war discussed in other installments of this forum. That the press covered up for Obama to the degree they did was yet another coup by the bad guys on that front…and yet another demonstration of why the PR war is so important.
Well, this is all talk between us here. Events will prove one right or the other. I can say that things will change in 2013, you can say they won’t, but we’ll see what transpires.
Your heart is a chicken shit Galut Jew who is afraid of the gentiles and making his position as an American rocky. I admit you are better than most in that you do seem to be active but your activity is total BS and will bring due to it’s lack of militancy yawns at best and derision and antisemitism at worst. You wrote the PMO, get real! This is Israel and you don’t even vote here. Now if you were a big billionaire donor you could have a direct line to any of our political amoeba crooks. Public opinion and ten bucks gets you the coffee of your choice at your favorite Starbucks. It is not Obama he is just the latest of a long list of other Obama clones. Republicans or Democrats we still have gotten the American shaft and still will no matter who is in office in Jan 2013.
On the block I grew up on we had a saying “shit walks money talks”
How do the Saudis poll in popularity in America? Who has the real power the Saudis and Gulf States or the Jews? I rest my case.
Shhhh don’t get the Goyim angry now. You and Jerry in my book are pathetic which is still better than abominable, vile and despicable.
“4Infidels”:
Who the f%$k do the Saudis think they are, you ask?
I’ll tell you who they are: They are the puppetmasters of Obama, that’s who. They paid for his schooling, at least at Harvard, and perhaps before. The artificially jacked up the price of oil in ’08 in order to force the time of the crash that fall to make sure the American people were scared into voting him into office. He never could have got elected otherwise; even with an already sluggish economy, a completely compliant (and Saudi corrupted) media, the legacy of the most unpopular president since Nixon hanging over his oppenent’s head, etc., McCain was still leading in the polls for a solid three weeks before the crash.
What we witnessed in ’08 was, in effect, a coup d’etat carried out by the Saudis. I don’t have documentary proof of this, but the circumstantial evidence is overwhelming.
I believe that something of a “Faustian bargain” was struck between Obama and his Saudi masters early on. There was no way that someone as far out in left field as Obama could have garnered the support he needed within these borders to become president…but the deal probably went something like this: ‘You support me so that I can carry out my socialist domestic agenda, and in return, I’ll implement the foreign policy you want.” And that is what Obama has gone on to do…just about everything the Saudis could ask of an American president, within the parameters of political feasibility, and a little beyond.
It is a horrible situation. I will always say the greatest act of mass stupidity I’ve ever witnessed is the Jewish American support for Obama in the last election. Today, most Jews are regretting this, but the horse is already out of the barn.
My heart is with the “angry comments”…but my head is with Jerry above. What we are witnessing is a drawn out game of “diplomatic chicken”. Both Netanyahu and Obama would dearly love to tell the other to go to hell, but for their respective political reasons, they have to make it look like the OTHER side “broke” the “unbreakable relationship”. Bibi can’t risk being seen as the one who deep-sixed Israel’s relationship with Israel’s only current major power ally, and for domestic political reasons, Obama is loathe to openly trash the relationhip, though he has far more latitude than does Bibi.
If Bibi tells Obama to stuff it, then Obama refers the matter to the tender mercies of the UNSC. The PA unilaterally declares a state, and war erupts. Israel wins the shoot-out, but then is subjected to the “Rhodesia treatment”: a total trade and diplomatic embargo, complete pariah status. This is why Bibi has to “play for time” per Caroline Glick until January of 2013.
Still, I think Bibi could get away with being more forceful than he has been. I’ve sent repeated e-mails to the PMO (for all the good that does, probably nothing) urging Bibi to stress the recognition issue above all else, that even while this may not impress Obama, it can be leveraged with public opinion generally in Israel’s favor in a way that even Obama & Co. could not effectively challenge in the public arena, making it that much more difficult for him to apply any more pressure on Israel than he already has.
All these angry comments! Frankly, any precipitous moves would give someone else something to say. Say very little and do very little for the next 18 months. When the ten-month moratorium on building ends, do not start with a bang, but slowly and quietly – with porches and kindergartens, with Ramat Shlomo, with private building. Do not play hero with Jewish lives and do not succumb either. What can anyone do with nothing! Don’t negotiate or just “play for time” in accordance with Caroline Glick’s meaning. Just protect the current borders. If a reporter asks what is going on, say, “Israel is waiting for a more reasonable understanding of our national and security needs.” Perhaps in the next 18 months Israel will be able to begin supplying natural gas to needy European countries. That ought to change some perceptions! No one wants to lose their source of energy – right!
I used to say let them drink the oil, but this works too!
The Saudis and the Chinese own America and her publicly elected officials. They can also bring the American financial house of card tumbling down by killing off the dollar. America could easily invade and take over the country. This is what I recommend Israel do invade take over the country then Sell oil at near cost and the world will love us and kiss our asses.
last post should have said:
“The only way to get the American public to support selling out Israel is to pretend that it is necessary for American interests and to save American lives.
Yamit,
With the Shiites in Saudi Arabia living in the region with the oil, couldn’t the US tell Saudi Arabia that any further support for the Taliban would result in American support for the Shia in Saudi Arabia? That is how a self-respecting superpower should deal with a duplicitous “ally.”
Of course, Obama needs the Saudi-Taliban deal over Afghanistan–not because there aren’t other ways to get Saudi cooperation–as an excuse for attempting to force Israel to give up Judea and Samaria. That is why we hear so much about Israel’s “policies” putting American lives in jeopardy in Afghanistan and Iraq. The only way to get the American public to believe that selling out Israel is to pretend that it is necessary for American interests and to save American lives.
Not that I believe Afghanistan is worth a darn anyway…I’m just saying…
Fakestinians Not original with me but it works.
Then there is Abos’, from aborigines.
Palestinians? What Palestinians?
There are, unfortunately, lots of Muslim Arabs in Judea, Samaria and Israel. There are also Christians and Druze and Russians and Jews. But there are no Palestinians.
These wonderful and courageous men drafted freedom.
Do you understand this Obama? You don’t get it do you?
HAPPY 4TH OF JULY EVERYONE – GOD/G-D BLESS AMERICA AND GOD/G-D BLESS ISRAEL
LET FREEDOM RING
PS: Remember alcohol and fireworks don’t mix
I think we need a new name for the Palestinians because the Israelis are the real Palestinians. The land of Palestine belongs to the Jews. Philistines? Putzes? Something other than Palestinians.
what gives
The Sunni Arab’s only viable answer to the Nuclearization of Iran, is to nuclearize themselves.Iran has been subverting governments around the region,and is actively encourag Shiite activities in Egypt and Saudi Arabia. Their problem is that Shiites are loyal to the Grand Ayatollah in Iran rather than to the local government. The problem seems not to be large in Egypt—though it is certainly bigger now than a decade ago—but it is a 10 on the Saudi Richter Scale, whose oil fields are settled by Shiites. Any Shiite unrest in Saudi Arabia would immediately raise the possibility of the Wahhabi Sunni monarchy losing its oil fields, the country’s only significant source of income. With stakes that high, Nukes for the Saudis, even their threatened use of nuclear weapons is not too drastic a step to take.
With Egypt and Saudi Arabia about to officially nuclearize, Syria cannot allow itself to fall behind. Oman will have to maintain its regional superpower status, so it will also go nuclear. Morocco, a perpetual peacemaker in the Middle East and colonizer of the Sahara, won’t let its king down, and will also go nuclear.
In a region seething with nuclear weapons, a country which has failed to preserve its onetime nuclear monopoly won’t get much respect, nor should it expect any.
This is one sick Muslim anti-Semite, Arab ass kissing SOB. Israel should tell him in no uncertain terms to stick this pledge up his ass.
I said before PM Netanyahu should not even talk to this jerk. Deal only with the members of congress who support Israel.
I guess this doesn’t bother the liberal American Jews. They just don’t get it.
This MF disturbs me and I am not even Jewish.
I agreed with her then and I haven’t changed my mind.
America should get the hell out of the whole ME and retrench back to their own hemisphere. Stop supplying Israel but also cut off all the Arab and Muslim States. We don’t need no stinking American weapons!!!
If Benjamin Netanyahu would like to provide yours truly with the thrill of a lifetime, prior to leaving Washington he would say, “Israel renounces all U.S. aid. We thank the American people for their generosity, but the time has come for Israel to be independent and act accordingly. We will now build 34,276,209 apartment units in East Jerusalem in what will be known as the Joseph Biden Complex.”
AR,
March 24, 2010
I agreed with her then and I haven’t changed my mind.
Who the f*#$ do the Saudis think they are? And what the heck kind of superpower is the US running? If the Saudis have enough influence over the Taliban to end the war, they should be read the riot act as to why they haven’t used it already, not given parts of Israel turned over to Arab-Muslim rule. Anyway, the day after Israel would leave the West Bank, the Taliban would start up their attacks again. We all know that a Muslim peace treaty is merely a hudna (temporary cease-fire) and is to violated as soon the it is advantageous to the Muslim side.
Why does Afghanistan matter anyway? Who cares who rules that primitive pile of rocks? The US wasn’t attacked from Afghanistan; it was attacked by Saudi and Egyptian nationals that it foolishly gave visas to for the purpose of taking flight training classes in Florida and elsewhere. The threats to the US comes from an Iranian nuclear program and the Islamization of Europe. Allowing a Hamas terrorist state, aligned with Iran and Hezbollah, in the West Bank is not in American interests. In fact it would be a far greater threat to America’s interests in the region than having the Taliban bossing a bunch of illiterate villagers around in parts of Afghanistan.
This plan cannot succeed if Israel refuses to cooperate and tells obama and abdullah where to go. There is no reason Israel should succumb to the demands of a president who’s approval ratings are dropping precipitously and with the Republicans likely to be in control of Congress next year. The bottom line is obama is losing his political power.
Also it won’t be any kind of real victory in Afghanistan, whatever that is. Obama will pretend its a victory and use that for his reelection campaign.