Peloni: How ironic is it that Zelensky’s positions appear to be a carbon copy of the positions which the US has taken in recent days, yet going one step further than even the US State Dept by actually recognizing an Arab state called “Palestine”. In fact, Zelensky, in one speech, supports the TSS, recognizes Palestine, supports the blood libel against Israel, supports the persistence of the terrorist enclave of Hamastan, and vows to send humanitarian aid to Hamas. Israel should strip the beggar nation of Ukraine of all material support, including the defensive aid it regretfully sent to them in support of their right of defense. Israel should also voice its support for immediate Ukrainian presidential elections to return some sense of legitimacy to a govt which is daily transforming Ukraine’s ruling authority into something which better resembles the Palestinian Authority than even the corrupt Ukrainian plutocracy which required new elections no later than this past spring.
MENAFN | June 4, 2024
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, during his recent visit to Singapore, made a fervent appeal for Israel to halt its military operations in Gaza, emphasizing the urgent need to end the bloodshed in the region. Speaking at the prestigious Shangri-La Dialogue security conference, Zelensky underscored Israel’s right to self-defense against Hamas terrorists but expressed deep concerns over the humanitarian crisis unfolding in the besieged Palestinian enclave.
Highlighting the devastating impact of Israel’s incursion into Gaza, Zelensky emphasized the imperative of upholding international law and ensuring the protection of civilians caught in the crossfire. He pledged Ukraine’s commitment to facilitating the delivery of aid to Gaza to alleviate the dire humanitarian situation gripping the territory.
Furthermore, Zelensky reiterated Ukraine’s stance on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, affirming support for the recognition of two states, Israel and Palestine, and urging Israel to take concrete steps towards de-escalation to prevent further civilian casualties.
The Ukrainian leader’s appeal comes amid mounting international pressure on Israel to cease its military operations in Gaza and pursue diplomatic solutions to the protracted conflict. Despite Israel’s insistence on its right to self-defense, criticism has intensified over the high civilian casualties and humanitarian crisis resulting from the ongoing hostilities.
Moreover, Zelensky’s remarks shed light on the broader geopolitical dynamics at play, including Israel’s reluctance to impose sanctions on Russia and its refusal to provide military assistance to Ukraine in its conflict with Moscow. This divergence in foreign policy approaches underscores the complexities and challenges facing international efforts to address regional conflicts and promote peace and stability.
As the toll of the Israel-Hamas war continues to mount, with over 36,000 Palestinians killed since the conflict erupted, the urgency for a ceasefire and renewed diplomatic efforts to resolve the crisis has never been more pressing. Zelensky’s call for Israeli restraint reflects the growing consensus among global leaders for a peaceful resolution to the longstanding Israeli-Palestinian conflict and underscores the interconnectedness of regional crises on the global stage.
The Ukrainian president criticized Israel’s operation in the Gaza Strip: “They entered and a humanitarian crisis was created there.”
@Laura
Thank you for the apple pie — and your response to Peloni’s Russian propaganda.
@Laura
Thank you for your kind response.
Ah, spin is it? Is it spin to hear recordings of the US Asst Sec. of State describing who should and who should not be placed into the new Ukrainian govt after the old Ukrainian govt is overthrown, two weeks before the old Ukrainian govt is actually overthrown. Note that the two weeks prior to the February coup was when the recordings were released, but it could have been days, weeks or months prior to that in which the recording were actually recorded.
Furthermore, the US never repudiated the content of the recordings. What is even more damning than this is that Nuland, in that same recording, referenced that in the weeks following the coup, Joe Biden would come to Ukraine and firm up the aftermath. And in fact, in the weeks following the coup, not only did Biden show up, but the oligarchs, including Biden received their control over Ukraine.
So, spin that in a way which doesn’t demonstrate America’s overthrow of duly elected govt. I am seriously in earnest in requesting this.
I’ve rejected your Kremlin-induced spin of events that led to the war.
I’m with Laura. She has the cheesecake and apple pie 😀
@Michael
Wrong. She has faithfully ignored every aspect of the events which led to the war, all of which are intimately associated with the American breach of the BM well before Russia entered either the Dombas, but also Crimea. You too have faithfully ignored these facts.
@Laura
The left — and anybody who spews such nonsense is on the left whether they see themselves as such or not — loves to get over by redefining words.
Well, two can play that game. You can call anything anything, you can call it a strawberry cheescake if people will let you.
OK, so “genocide”. There’s basically two kinds of genocide, good genocide and bad genocide, and I know all about that because to determine what genocide is scientifically we have to find what else can be good or bad and there is only one answer: cholesterol! And there’s a pill for that. Trump takes that plll so electing Trump means there will be only good genocide in the world. See. That’s why the worst human rights abusers sit on all the human rights committees and condemn Israel though it’s not. Let’s face it, Israelis eat a lot of carbs. Simple as apple pie. in Wonderland. “Do the math.” -Andrew Yang 😀
https://pinchinat.wordpress.com/2016/04/21/some-thoughts-on-the-presidential-electdion-of-16/
Michael
😀 Good one. FDR should have countered by demanding that each of the 48 states plus the territories and Native American nations should have a vote. 😀
And my future apartment. 😀
Hello, Peloni.
Did I teach that word to you? I’m sorry. “Disingenuous” means you’re pretending to be disinterested, while actually shilling for one of the sides — in your case, Russia. Laura has not been disingenuous; she has called Putin for his brazen aggression agazinst his neighbor, and she is absolutely correct and consistent in doing so.
Concerning Zelensky, he knows not to bite the hand that feeds him, namely Biden & Co. It coincidentally puts him on board with Russia and her anti-Israel policies. This is no time to apologize for Putin.
I think Sebastien Zorn sees things more clearly:
BTW Sebastien, even in 1948 Ukraine voted with Russia concerning Israel, as I recall; Ukraine voted in her own right, as a recognized UN state, and “Russia” was recognized as head of the “USSR”.
Huh? Utter nonsense. You’re completely brainwashed. Russia is one of the most antisemitic countries in the world.
Once again, every Ukrainian I come across supports Israel while Russians support hamas.
As soon as the words “Humanitarian Crisis” leave Zelensky’s lips, you know that whatever follows will be antisemitic. But, what do you expect from a guy who is the leader of a Nazi-regime?
@Laura
Ok, but the quote you shared was between Bear and me, not Vivarto, just fyi. I was going to make this point in any event, so I am glad you offered me the opportunity.
Glad to hear. But I think I was responding to Vivarto.
Third rescue operation during this ware was that has successfully retrieved hostages.
Let us hope we can have a few more and get more of the hostages who are still alive out safely.
@Bear
Yes, it is a day to be celebrated and rejoiced. And the only reason we can feel this sense of joy is because Israel did something which it has almost exclusively failed to do, with few specific exceptions, over the past 40yrs, and that is to act in her own interest and not that of the antisemitic Great Power leaders in America. This victory was exacted by the IDF and security services, and let us not ignore the Israeli police, but this victory was only possible because Israel’s political leadership told the US, “NO”. This was Bibi’s doing, and he owes his ability to having done it to both his electorate and his govt, sans the Gantz element as he faced down the US. This Israeli-faced posture must be the posture of Israel going forward. As Bibi said yesterday,
And he is already changing it by throwing off the yoke of American dominance over Israel.
@Peloni, I am very happy today that the brave and talented IDF and other security services rescued 4 hostages. Parties and spontaneous celebrations all over Israel.
By the way I concur with the following
@Laura
@Bear
So you think that I would support Israel being a Russian client state more than I support it being an American client state? You really should concentrate on reading what I write rather than on what you write about me. Israel’s problem with the US is that it lacks authority to act in its own interest when that interest conflicts with that of the US leadership. In fact, Israel’s entire raison d’tre is to be exempt of such shackles as chained our people to the consent of Gentile overlords. If we are to permit some greater authority over Israel to whom we must bow and serve as currently exists with the American control over nearly every aspect of Israel’s existence, what would the real difference be between the Jewish homeland and the American diaspora, as they both exist with the kind permittance of the American overlords. Hence, I want NO overlords overshadowing Israel’s existence.
Israel must be free to act according to the needs of the Jewish people. This was the purpose of the Zionist movement, as it was the purpose of the Jewish Homeland, as it is the purpose of the Jewish State – for Jews to decide their own fate, to make their own choices, to find the means to exist and survive as our own masters. Hence, we need no foreign Caesar, not from Russia and not from the US, where the former is filled with antisemitic peoples and the latter has been led by an exclusively antisemitic Cabal sans Trump.
And let us make no mistake to think that this antisemitic American power Cabal has been limited to Obama and Biden. On a dime, Trump, the only true friend Israel has had in the US leadership, changed the world, but the change was far greater than rolling back Israel policies to pre-Obama, as he ended all tolerance for the wholesale slaughter of our people on the streets, cafes and homes of our people, recognized our right to stability without the normalization of terror wars as has been a bipartisan effort to normalize. He recognize our right to our Capital, even as a bipartisan agreement held that prize for the terror state the bipartisan Cabal insisted would not be denied. He recognized our right to end the suzerainty of the anhillistic Mullahs in the region which the bipartisan cabal aided in expanding across the ME. It took decades for the Cabal to establish all this weight against our people and Trump ended it with only a speech at Riyadh. And now Trump is out and the weight of the antisemitic American leadership has returned with a vengeance.
Do you think that I think that Israel would be better off if Russia were our task master in place of America? NO I do not. Which is why I have never suggested that Israel become Russia’s vassal, only that she assume a posture where she is not the vassal of America.
Your problem is that you call me a Putin apologist, and in reading your own copy become convinced of such silly nonsense as you promote, but which I have always addressed as false. It remains to be false, even as you are still convinced of your own enlightened perception of me.
Israel needs to be sovereign. She needs to act in a manner which belies the true threat about which she is trapped, but this does not require her to be the play thing of the US, nor of Russia, and for all that is good and rational not the Chinese. There are interests which stand between these great powers, which Israel should leverage to her own advantage, which she can only pursue as an independent agent, which she has abandoned to become an American bauble. Well the American leaders have never respected the association between the American people and the people of Israel, and now that they have foregone any illusion that they must gain the support of the American public in the elections, all need to disguise the true motivations of the American Cabal to empower Iran has disappeared. Israel is under threat, and is in a difficult position to deal with this threat, but surviving her current predicament mandates she resolve to advance her own sovereignty, and act between the great powers rather than the play thing of anyone of them.
The fact that Israel has failed to appreciate the danger inerrant in her lack of independence before this moment is actually the true tragedy for Israel, even as you mistake it to be your own rhetorical fantasy about what you misstate as my views.
Agreed. What other country would Bibi be invited to speak before its governmental body? Everywhere else in the world, including in western countries Bibi’s a pariah. Those of you who wish America’s world leadership status to be replaced by the Russia/China axis are out of your minds. This would be a tragedy for Israel.
@Peloni long convoluted dodge.
Laura was correct obviously.
Including one can hate Biden and company but still back the USA. Like the military man who says I hate Biden but I serve the flag and my country. Just like I back Israel whether Olmert (whom I hate) or Bibi is PM. I love the Blue and White and Israel!
I have my answer. Thank you.
@Bear
You are invariably wrong about everything which is related to Russia, and even things which are unrelated to Russia but to which you draw some vague or imagined connection to that country.
@Bear
@Laura
Your presumption that I should presume a position about a war which has not begun, and the context of which must be completely presumed would require a greater air of omniscience than I possess, even as you and Laura seem cavalierly presuming that we should all be shouting ‘the Russians are coming, the Russians are coming’. Perhaps your presumptions about what will take place will actually take place, but until it does, I will simply say that the US has succeeded in failing the world in its leadership, in Ukraine, in Israel, in America and, in general over the past decades. Furthermore, what comes next will not be isolated from those leadership failures.
By the way, I do recall reading about recent US led war games taking place in Eastern Europe, where a US trained, US armed and US financed proxy force is actually killing Russians on the field of battle. So, now Russia is sending its fleet to the Western Hemisphere to carry out war games of its own, and you two seem certain that the sky is falling. Well, again, we will see what we will see, but what has taken place thus far, ie the threat of Russian war games, seems a much smaller threat than what Russia is currently enduring on its border. It would of course be best for all parties if all parties walked their threatening postures back a notch or two, but that would in fact require a return of good governance in the US.
Naturally, I look forward to a return of such competence to lead the US, but of course that will require a regime change in Washington which the American Oligarchs will strongly oppose. In the meantime, it is simply psychopathy seven days a week emanating from the Washington Uniparty which has seriously destabilized the world rather than offering even a slight respite towards calming tensions anywhere. Of course, such reckless disregard for the pursuit of peace which the Washington elites have projected over these decades can ultimately be catchy, so we will see what comes, and judge it as it comes from wherever it might come. Such is the duty of anyone with any regard of history, something which I am as likely nearly obsessed as you two seem to be about Russia.
Stop being an apologist for Putin and Russia while it sides with hamas. Russia has long been allied with Iran and hamas, long before their war on Ukraine. Russia has never been allied with Israel and has no reason to ever think its interests align with Israel. You’re a lunatic. Why this love affair with putin on this site?
So, you’d rather Israel be under Russian suzerainty. You’re fucking crazy. Despite the current administration in the WH, at least America has a large and strong pro-Israel constituency in America. Nothing remotely like that exists in Russia which is quite antisemitic. You’re delusional and your ideas are dangerous to Israel.
We know the answer to that.
@Peloni &Ted
So if war breaks out Ted or Peloni do you support USA or Russia?
Am I correct based the other two times I asked this and I received silence as answer that it is not the USA you are supporting but Russia? Kindly correct me if I am wrong on this.
Vivarto
What has idealism …and what do you mean by the term?
It appears you are ignorant of the history because I offered vital issues in history which are relevant. More than relevant but essential.
And you take it upon yourself to slap me down.
Yes you will thereby get supporters for that. But so what?
If you are ignorant of history which you SEEM to be then you won’t get far with Russia.
Putin has turned his back on the Russian Revolution
Consequently also on the historical event of the 1918 to 1921 period of massive pogroms in Ukraine mainly, the period when Jews fought alongside the Trotsky Red Army communist forces, to wipe out the Pogromists
Putin like you no interest!
You may not think that part of Jewish history is important. I beg to differ!
Perhaps the media, the forces of capitalism, would like Trotskyists like me not acquaint young Jews of that.
Tough! I intend it. They need to know.
Russians are conducting naval and air exercises in the Caribbean
So Peloni & Ted are you going to side with USA/Europe or Russia if full blown war breaks out? Anyone else taking Russia’s side feel free to let us know. Felix you are exempt from this request as we know the answer you are with Russia.
@Laura
Well, America is arming and financing “Palestinians” and Lebanon.
As for Putin, he is not an enemy of Israel, he is a Russian patriot, and does what is best for Russia. At the current moment, as Israel is acting like American vassal, it serves Russian interests to hurt Israel.
The war Hamas and Hezbullah war also servers Russian interests, that’s all.
It is not out of hatred for Israel, just out of what’s best for Russia.
We can change the equation and make it best for Russia to ally with Israel, and drop Iran and its proxies.
Russia can emerge as the peacemaker in the Middle East and replace America.
@FelixQuigley
I don’t see any connection to communism, revolution, idealism, etc.
I am simply suggesting a deal with the Russians.
We ask the Russians to help us free ourselves from American suzerainty, give us the Russian veto in UNSC and recognition of Israel from the River to the Sea, and in exchange Israel recognizes Russian control of any part or all of Ukraine.
Russian demand to de-Nazify Ukraine.
Demand Ukrainian neutrality.
In exchange for Russian destruction of Islamic State of Iran, Israel starts military cooperation with Russia including building 5th generation stealth bombers with Israeli electronics, and other advanced weapons.
Russian-Israeli-Indian weapons could compete on quality with American weapon systems at 1/3rd of the price.
America must understand that they cannot afford losing Israel, and that Israel has other options.
Ideally, Israel should become a peacemaker for Russia and America and achieve the position of full neutrality and friendship with both.
@Ted & Peloni
There are now a few reports of likely Russian sabotage in a few places in Europe.
There are American contingency plans to land US soldiers in various places in Europe should the need arise.
Russians are conducting naval and air exercises in the Caribbean.
So question for both Peloni and Ted if war breaks out are you going to be on the Russian side or American/ European side?
I mean this special unusual edition
https://www.amazon.es/Prophet-Life-Leon-Trotsky/dp/1781685606
Peloni I like what you said. I would add that it is a situation we meet often. Summer up: when Fascist forces take the enormous trouble (expenditure of effort = energy) of seizing power…they will not give it up. It is a terrible dynamic.
An election in Ukraine is quite impossible.
Lesson of history.
See the Trilogy by Deutscher. Why? Because it all there
We should remember that Zelensky is desperate for continued American and NATO military aid to Ukraine. He knows that unless he tows the American line on all issues other than the Ukraine war, that aid will be stopped and Ukraine will be doomed. Also, he has to deal with the suspicion that some Ukrainians have of a Jewish president, even though the majority of Ukrainians elected him in 2019. Also, many Ukrainian are angry with Israel for not jproviding them with “lethal” military aid, even though Israel has provided Ukraine with considerable amounts of “nonlethal” military supplies. And they are critical of Israel for not participating in the economic sanctions against Russia.
Zelensky has always been an admirer of Israel. He said so in his inaurguration speech. But if Biden demanded that he swear that the moon is made of green cheese, that the earth is flat and is held up by a Greek god (Atlas) he would swaer to it on the (Jewish) bible. As long as Biden allows, however grudgingly and with restrictions, some military supplies to reach Ukraine.,
The above implies an understanding of the history of our times.
The Trilogy by Isaac Deutscher I notice can now be downloaded for only pennies
Vivarto
Very good. I agree.
But ask why? The answer is that the Jewish youth and artists saw the Russian Revolution as being the hope for mankind. In the civil war Jews joined the banner of Trotsky and the Red Army because it was the force which defended Jews in the Pogroms of 1918 to 1920.
Plus what I said earlier.
The central question here is that Nazis, real Nazis of the present have been working on revising history (Snyder), just as the both parties are revising science most fundamental on virus and global warming. We are facing hell on earth.
@Laura
This is disingenuous. Putin tried to negotiate a settlement with the West (stop pretending that Ukraine has any input into its fate in this war) repeatedly without success, and we know from statements of the leaders of Germany, France and Ukraine that those efforts were in fact backed by bad faith intentions by the West, not by Russia as you suggest here. All the West had to do was to tell their Nazi/Nationalist proxy force in Ukraine to stop killing the ethnic Russians in the Dombas and the peace would have held. We know this because even after Russia entered Ukraine, Putin not only refused to offer the ethnic Ukrainian Russians any promise of permanent protection, but he also tried to get Ukraine to accept the a return to the pre-invasion boundaries if only they would stop slaughtering the ethnic Russians, to which the West once again pressed Zel to demonstrate a bad faith effort at the Istanbul peace conference which has been substantiated by many sources not least of which is from PM Bennett.
So, for all your claims to the contrary, it would appear that it was in fact not Russia which has been demonstrating repeated bad faith intentions towards peace, but instead it was the West doing.
Actually, not one person died during the Russian occupation of Crimea, which should be recognized as the cost of the West having previously eviscerated the Budapest Memorandum, which you have repeatedly ignored. Additionally, not only were there no Crimean deaths during Russia’s seizure of the peninsula, many Ukrainian members of the Ukrainian fleet chose to join the Russian Navy rather than return to their native Ukraine, even as war between these two nationasl appeared to be imminent at the time.
@Bear
Great comment. Thanks.
@Peloni no link just short comment
@Bear
The link for the title you shared did not come thru in your post. Was there a link? or did I misunderstand what you were trying to do with your comment?
The Hitler Nazis invaded Russia in 1941. Stalin who created Stalinism was unprepared. Yet the Russians fought at all levels. The war against Fascism was won there and not on Normandy. Nothing can change that.
The Ukrainian national leadership led by Bandera joined with the Nazis in the Holocaust of the Jews and genocide against Russians. Nothing can change that either.
But everything has been tried in the West to revise history to whitewash those facts.
It is nothing short of traitor to Jews for Laura to also whitewash this Fascist Nazi enemy. Shows opportunism and lack of principle.
This does not imply I agree with Putin on what he says about the war in Gaza . But it means Zelensky is a Nazi. Putin is not a Nazi.
Zelensky is betraying Israel. What he is doing is painful to watch. We did not expect this from a Ukrainian Jew. He is a globalist’s puppet. His administration – Ermak, Markarova, Kuleba, etc. are Russian infiltrators. He fired a great Ukrainian military chief of staff Zaluzhnyi, he is bowing to Biden and did not insist on the American Lend Lease. Unfortunately, we are seeing a similar picture in Israel when the same generals who destroyed the army are still in charge.
As for Putin, he is an aggressor who invaded an independent country -Ukraine. There was no reason for that, no justification. In the Budapest Memorandum of 1994, Russia, the US, and the UK confirmed their recognition of Ukraine, supporting her independence and sovereignty in the existing borders. Putin violated this agreement. And of course, Putin is an enemy of Israel.
Putin accuses Israel of attempting ‘complete elimination’ of Gazan civilians
https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-805204?utm_source=jpost.app.apple&utm_medium=share
What does “peace” with Russia look like? You mean he should have surrendered parts of Ukraine to Russia which might have led to a temporary “peace” until such time Russia decides to create a phony pretext to take the rest of Ukraine. Kind of like when it “peacefully” took Crimea without resistance. Like when it signed a treaty to leave Ukraine alone if Ukraine gave Russia its nukes, which it did. You people are unreal. You cannot be this stupid, but I do not know what motivates this support of Russia. Perhaps its driven by anti-Americanism. Russia is an ENEMY of Israel.
Give weapons to the country allied with hamas and Iran. Brilliant idea. You’re beyond crazy.
So Zelensky actually has true colors. What a surprise! And he demanded that Israel provide its Iron Dome when the missiles are falling. I wonder what else he will think of in his attempts to shame the whole world into contributing to his sham war that he can’t win. He should have agreed to peace with Russia and he should have long ago stopped shelling his own citizens.
So, Russia is allied with Iran, Ukraine recognizes “Palestine,” as does Russia, voted to sic the ICC on Israel, has never voted for Israel in the UN, same for Russia, except briefly in 1948, usually against. Erects monuments and awards medals of honor named after Nazi war criminals. What has Ukraine ever done for Israel?
That being said, if the Jews are seen to take sides, there will be pogroms again. This applies to both sides which both have a lot of antisemitism.
Both are autocracies with a thin democratic veneer.
The Jews in both countries are, essentially, hostages.
Israel is fighting on seven fronts and should stay out of elective wars and Jews should get out of those countries and, if brave enough to do the right thing, make aliya and come home.
Jewish population of Ukraine in 2023: 45,000
Of Russia as of May 29, 2024: 132,000
Jewish population of Israel: 7.2 million.
That being said, the best thing for us and for world peace would be an immediate and unconditional armistice on a certain date, like North and South Korea, or Israel in 1949. at a minimum. As Trump has promised to negotiate. Actually, he’s prepared to just cede the disputed territories to Russia. Either way.
Time for Israel to supply weapon systems to Russia.
Especially the electronics.
Make a clear agreement with Russians to not give any advanced weapons to Iranians.