The 80% is very misleading. Here’s what it is comprised of:
The survey, conducted by the Geocartography Institute on behalf of the Israeli university in the West Bank, found that 35 percent of respondents said the government should annex the entire West Bank, 24% said only the settlement blocs should be annexed, 20% answered that any annexation should only take place as part of an agreement with the Palestinians, and 12% said Israel doesn’t need to impose its sovereignty over any part of the West Bank. Nine percent had no answer.
Ted Belman
The Women in Green movement applauds the data that emerge from a poll conducted ahead of the Ariel Conference for Law and Mass Media (to be held on April 29th), according to which some 80 percent of the public support the application of Israeli sovereignty over Judea and Samaria
Today (Sunday, April 21), saw the publication of the results of a special poll conducted by the Geocartography research institute on behalf of the Ariel Conference for Law and Mass Media, according to which some 80 percent of the public support the application of Israeli sovereignty over Judea and Samaria. The Women in Green movement applauds the results which, according to the heads of Women in Green, are not surprising.
According to the poll, some 80 percent of the respondents believe that Israel should apply sovereignty over Judea and Samaria, under whatever conditions. Of those, more than a third of the Israeli public is of the opinion that Israel has to apply sovereignty over all Judea and Samaria, while almost a quarter believes that it should be applied only over the settlement blocs.
Publications by the Ariel University further indicate that only about 20 percent of the public as a whole are of the opinion that Israel should apply sovereignty within the framework of an agreement.
Yehudit Katsover and Nadia Matar, leaders of Women in Green, the movement that for the past few years champions the acceptance of the idea of the application of sovereignty over Judea and Samaria, say that “these figures might be surprising for a part of the Israeli public, but this comes as no surprise to us. In recent years we have been traveling throughout Israel, and wherever the question of sovereignty is raised, the idea is received favorably, with extensive support.”
The two note the constantly growing numbers of participants in the conferences for the application of sovereignty – with the last one receiving tremendous media coverage – and the growing number of supporters of the idea, among both public figures and the public at large.
Katsover and Matar report that the three conferences held to now will have a continuation shortly, in the format of small and more focused lectures that will be held throughout the country, in order to continue to strengthen the awareness of the idea and the ability to realize it.
“We call upon the government of Israel to heed the voices that arise from the people. The government has a golden opportunity to demonstrate a true Zionist pioneering spirit and lead the public a step forward on its way to its political and security redemption. Today, the application of sovereignty is a necessity, that can be implemented with determination and courage. The people has sobered up from the two-state illusion, and it seeks a true Zionist answer, one based on values. The application of Israeli sovereignty over the cradle of Jewish history, Judea and Samaria, is undoubtedly such an answer,” Katsover and Matar say.
It should be noted that the demand for sovereignty, as indicated by the poll commissioned by Ariel University, is not necessarily centered among voters for the right. A total of 60 percent of the respondents who define their views as leftwing views think, to some degree or other, that Israel has to apply sovereignty over all or a part of Judea and Samaria. Among those who define their views as leftwing, 42 percent agree, in whatever degree, that international law must recognize Israeli sovereignty in Judea and Samaria.
@ Bear Klein:
agreed. ted never posted part of my spammed reply. best wishes.
@ Bernard Ross:
I would summarize our debate as you see the cup as half empty and I think it could very well be half full.
I think we have slogged this polls indicators of viewpoints of Israelis on J&S plenty now.
spammer disappearing my comments to bear klein
Bear Klein Said:
He appears to be playing a close hand of poker. I don’t really know what BB wants.Israeli leaders apparently must work in subterfuge to avoid manipulation and extortion of the foreigners.
Bear Klein Said:
He appears to be playing a close hand of poker. He apparently must work in subterfuge to avoid manipulation and extortion of the foreigners. I have no idea what he is trying to achieve and whether it matches his expressed goals.,
Bear Klein Said:
I did not think that the particular poll quoted here indicated the necessary support for annexation of full C. I felt the particular poll did the opposite in which case the leadership of GOI would be reflecting Israeli popular desires.
Bear Klein Said:
If the quoted poll results were accurate then more than 15% of the 24%, who said they wanted no more than settlement blocs,would be needed to choose full area C.
Bear Klein Said: I have found it difficult to assess how much of YS the various majority leaders are demanding(BB, Liberman, Lapid,Bennett).
Bear Klein Said:
i agree, I was commenting on the posted poll only which posters were claiming as support for the level of annexation which most of us would like to see here. I did not think that the particular poll indicate the necessary support. I felt the particular poll did the opposite in which case the leadership of GOI would be refelcting Israeli popular desires.
Bear Klein Said:
Possibly, however,if the quoted poll results were accurate then more than 15% of the 24%, who said they wanted no more than settlement blocs,would be needed to choose full area C.
Bear Klein Said: I have found it difficult to assess how much of YS the various majority leaders are demanding(BB, Liberman, Lapid,Bennett).
Bear Klein Said:
He appears to be playing a close hand of poker. I assume he wants more than he states but Israeli leaders apparently must work in subterfuge to avoid manipulation and extortion of the foreigners.
@ Bernard Ross:
I have studied statistics, polls and similar studies and what I am saying is that you could write a study completely different and achieve wildly different results. Agree with me or not. Latching on to one poll as absolute proof of anything is highly questionable. (look at election polls)
I think it is possible that a majority might end up supporting annexing Area C. Israeli leadership needs to start leading and not just treading water. I think Bibi is treading water because he wants to focus international help on Iran.
@ yamit82:
On this particular line of thinking, that is, the citizenship being withdrawn from certain population groups by Jordan, I believe that is a very valid precedent and must be used by Israel. The problem is that we do not have a leadership so the Persite and Netanyahu folk will hide that and or block its use.
And it is not by far the only precedent.
After WWII, ethnic Germans citizenship was not just removed from millions of them, but they were expelled as well. I will research the subject further and return to this theme later.
For now. That is a brillinat option I believe.
In any way one cuts it, the vast majority here is moving towards re assuming soverignty over all of Eretz Israel.
Bernard Ross Said:
Yup.
Bear Klein Said:
from above post of Yamit
This is unambiguous if correct. 65% do not want more than settlement blocks. Do you have a better source? the text here is clear using the word “only”. The rest is speculation and wishful thinking. If phrased differently you are saying that some of those who want full annexation and some of those who want only the settlement blocks would choose C?
@ Bear Klein:
All is nice as a subject for talking among friends here, but the crude reality is that this is a war to the death. Islam is not interested on cutely drawn lines, but on the whole of Eretz Israel sans Jews. What is left unclear on this?
Our option is precisely the oposite to that. And it is the only option.
Eretz Israel sans Islamics must be returned to our fold. Completely.
And the moment of decision is not far off.
Netanyahu is after his Nobel and may massage some stupid Peresitic quasi agreement to help him get that Nobel, but soon after the truth will pop to the fore.
Either Islam or us will remain here. Not any compromise flop.
@ Bernard Ross:
The choice of the question was not asked the way you are deducing the outcome. So your assumption that 65% do not want more than the settlements blocks is either erroneous or assumptive.
No choice was offered would you annex more than the settlement blocks short of full annexation Judah and Samaria. No choice for annexing Area C or all Jewish Towns and security areas.
So my point is if properly asked the conclusion would probably come out differently. I also believe that leadership is in order to properly present the absolute need for annexing Area C. This provides most all security areas plus all Jewish Towns.
Helping people understand the need for something is important. Many leftist and centrist Israelis previously supported Oslo but 20 years later all except Shimon Peres and 10% – 15% or so no longer believe in it.
Bear Klein Said:
Why would they show leadership to seek more than what 65% of Israelis want, why do you think the majority of Israelis would get behind it, and behind what exaclty? if the majority were behind it there would not be a problem. It still remains the 65% dont want more than the major settlement blocs and a good portion of those want less. Its called grasping for straws. I want Israel to annex the whole shebang and transfer the arabs out, I believe there are legal and moral precedents for this action. If the Israelis dont want it who am i to argue. However, they should not leave before guaranteeing JEWISH rights to settle YS as internationally agreed. Jewish rights to settle YS are unrelated to Israeli claims of national sovereignty. The UN should be protecting those rights regardless of who is sovereign, or who administrates, or who occupies the territory.
yamit82 Said:
didn’t Jordan withdraw citizenship from the west bank pals? Isn’t this a precedent fro withdraewing citizenship and creating stateless people? Similar to the precedents of Jewish transfer from arab countries and arab JEW FREE areas in gaza, jorddan and PA west bank. All these precendents which got no objection from the euros and UN. More double standards?
@ CuriousAmerican:
I am curious, Curious, you do not believe that Israeli’s are aware that they must deal with the difficult of problem of Arabs who are in our midst?
There is an on going debate that ranges in a wide spectrum of what do with Arabs who would be in the annexed areas. Probably at the most this be Area C of Judah and Samaria because most Israeli’s do not want an additional 1.5 million or so Arab Citizens. Bennett’s plan offers them citizenship.
First Israel must secure its country and finalize its borders unilaterally. ISRAEL can NOT be 9 miles wide nor can it vacate its homeland to appease its critics. Once it becomes clear that at a maximum there will be Palestinian Autonomous City-States (similar to San Marino which is within the borders of Italy without a military). This is provided the Palestinians within such as an area are peaceful. Life for all in the long run will get better. Before Oslo Arabs from Gaza, Judah and Samaria worked in Israel peacefully. I know because I worked with many of these folks. The Arabs of the Palestinian areas need to be able to trade and seek employment elsewhere outside of Autonomous Cities because their economy is not sustainable without foreign welfare checks.
Yes creative solutions should be found as helping them voluntarily relocate elsewhere with employment and compensation if they have property to sell that they legally own.
If they are not peaceful all bets are off.
Israeli Arab citizens are voters, Judges, teachers and some even soilders.
Yes life is not perfect them or the Jews of Israel but once it becomes clear that Israel will NOT allow a militarized Palestinian State or Palestinian State without the safeguards of the IDF for mutual defense, life in the very long run may become normalized (e.g. such as for the Basques in Spain.)
To end the conflict one side must be victorious. I choose Israel the stronger side with the moral and historical right to its own Jewish state! Yes this state will have democratic rights for all its citizens. However those that are enemies and act as such must be dealt with accordingly.
The Arabs of the Israeli Galilee had IDF soliders in their midst after the 1948 war in which they tried to deny us are state. Eventually things subsided the troops pulled out in the mid 1950s and these people took citizenship. Most accept life as Israeli citizens today.
Their are no perfect solutions to a conflict such as this religious conflict between Muslims and Jews over the right of a Jewish State in the middle east. If the Muslims could accept a Jewish State this conflict could have been settled just like the Czeks and Slovaks settled theirs. Sit down for one year across the table write a documents split up the land and have an economic union with seperate political and cultural rights for both sides. This conflict is not such a conflict obviously. So people who deny our right to exist may not end up in a perfect world.
@ Bernard Ross:
Poll results can be skewed how the questions are asked. I do not believe one of the questions asked would you support Annexing Area C.
Since 35% wanted to annex all Judah and Samria and 24% the settlement blocks. If you presented the question as are in favor of annexing the strategic areas of Judah and Samaria with the minimum amount of Arabs, and be able to include the Jewish Towns in this Area C you might get a majority or close to it. Especially if this was asked after another Palestinian outrage of some sort (UN, ICC, terrorist).
.
If the government shows leadership on this issue (Bibi, Moshe Yalon, Bennett)the majority of Israeli’s will get behind it.
The obvious is obvious even for the blind. Most likely a significant majority of Israelis would vote for annexing J & S. If it wasn’t for the war of the West against the Jews, J & S would have been part of Il in 1948, its rightful owner and the Pal would not be a problem anymore. It would not have existed. The West thought they had a chance to control the Jews. Who knows, the spread of Islamism today may be a delay consequence of the unjustified partition. Rather than poke a hole in the abscess in 1948 and get rid of it, the western world decided for “their own perceived benefits”, to let it ROT. Some will state that what goes around comes around!
SHmuel HaLevi Said:
Poems of a Jewish Warrior
Samuel Ha Nagid of Granada
(993 – 1055)
All put on their swords in that day of danger,
and stripped of their cloaks to join battle,
running to the slaughter in good heart and in joy.
On a day of danger and distress I remember your message.
You are good, and there is justice in your mouth and your heart .
___________________________________________________________________________
I remember the message which comes to console me
When sorrow appears. I put faith in your help.
When your servant in his youth lay asleep in his bed,
you sent Seraphim to tell him of your great goodness.
They sat down beside me, and then Michael said:
“This is God’s message who pleads your cause:
On the day that you cross waters of sorrow I am with you.”
And Gabriel, too, his companion, who heard of me
As he stood in your chariot’s retinue, said to me:
“When you walk into the fire, it shall not burn you.
I shall speak to the flames, and they will never destroy you.”
This is the message which I grasp like a sword in the hand.
I see swords before me. I trust in your sword.
______________________________________________________________________________
You owe it to your Maker to pursue
a righteous course, and He must give you your just desserts.
But do not pass all your days in
His service; set aside a
time for God and times for yourselves
Give half the day to Him, half to
your own needs – and then give
wine no respite all night long!
Put out the candle light –
let your goblets shine instead.
Scorn the voice of singers –
let your jugs sing for you.
Since you will not find wine, song,
or company in the grave –
let this, O fools, be your reward for all your labors.
@ Bernard Ross:
Virtually all the “HAMULAS” or Moslem extended families or clans are basically desert wanderers.
Even today they prefer to live a similar life. Those that eventually settle down… a minority, are found to form much smaller families with very low birth rate.
An alert visitor to most of their villages will notice their lack of interest on infrastructures of permanent type. They still live mentally in tents but now made with cinder blocks and concrete.
I suggest to form a structure of independent funds to advance the buy out concept.
Keeping in mind the “hamulas” power dominance structures. Once key hamulas are made part of the deals, the rest is less likely to buck it.
CuriousAmerican Said:
Just like selling land to jews, their leadership will not allow them to take the money from jews under threat of death,. However, if you can convince the arabs to pay them they might take it from them or if they suddenly find themselves across tthe borders the UNRWA would continue to chip in. OR if Jordan decided to become palestine and gave them back their citizenship and invited them to attend an economic boom they might emigrate there. Options for muslim emmigration outside of europe may become limited due to terror events.
yamit82 Said:
the problem is that this 65% percentage does not even support annexation of C.
@ yamit82:
I tried to respond to your remarks regarding Samuel HaLevi, Spain. You are very well informed! My mother’s family hails from Spain circa 1400’s. Yet, the Barkan’s are Kohanites, a military dedicated family since the reign of King Solomon. Originally inhabitants of the Gilboa range area.
About the Poll results. I like the fact than only 12% opposes the re assumption of soverignty over our Lands in Yehuda and Shomron. Arguably that would mean that at least some respondents are Arabs that also agree. It also means that no party has public support to compromise on that.
The 80% is very misleadg. Here’s what it includes:
“a peace deal with the Arabs.”
As they say up here, that’s “like trying to talk sense to a shotgun.”
Over one third of the public thinks that sovereignty should be extended to the entire area of Judea and Samaria, while almost 25% believe that the sovereignty should be limited to the so-called settlement blocs.
Only 20% of the public said that the sovereignty should only be extended as part of a peace deal with the Arabs.
GULP! My response to Curious was fagocitated be uncle cyber.
Anyway Curious. You know what I mean, don’t you?
All very good to hear.
My zapped comment expressed shock at the fact that the MK who was assaulted in TA thinks he can solve the problem by dispersing Africans and their violence all over Israel as a solution.
My comment zapped by Spam Filter. Gone. Check this: http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/167347
UNBELIEVABLE! African attacks MK Elazar Stern in Tel Aviv, and the solution he offers is to disperse Africans and their violence all over the country.
The only solution is the same one as that for Arabs. Pay Africans to leave. Offer them an incentive big enough so that they’ll go back to Egypt. This situation is unacceptable. One hundred thousand Africans who commit rape and murder and your legislators do absolutely nothing! If you ever give these infiltrators residency, they’ll demand to bring their wives and children to Israel. Soon they’ll become a million. And more. Machete wielding, drug crazed Africans, just like those back in their own countries. – http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/167347
CuriousAmerican Said:
So call us Indian givers what we gave we can take back. Just like the Christian British gave to the Jews and took back and gave to some Bedouins.
CuriousAmerican Said:
You pay or you keep them. You can continue to fight them … or kill them (in which case, Israel will be more of a pariah that it is, today).
So we continue to fight them the more we kill the less there will be to fight later. We will save future generations and guarantee that they will not be troubled by this cancer. We have been fighting them for a hundred years a few more is bearable.
As to Israel being a Pariah? Not worried the diaper heads are pissing off so many Americans and Europeans that they will support us in anything we do. It’s only a matter of time before the Islamic mutants self destruct or push the rest of the world to finish them off.
Patience curious, their souls might be lost to you but think of all those Asians you can try to convert. Warning: Asians have strange eating habits they might just place christian missionaries in the same category as Tiger testicles, wouldn’t that make missionaries an endangered species in a short period of time?
‘Most Israeli Jews would annex part of West Bank’
Ariel University poll claims nearly 80% support expanding Israeli sovereignty — unilaterally, or as part of a deal with the Palestinians
Five hundred adult respondents “in Jewish communities in Israel” participated in the survey, which had a margin of error of 4.4%.
Centrists were divided over annexing West Bank territory. Sixteen percent were in favor of total annexation, 31% in favor of annexing the settlement blocs, 30% in favor of annexation as part of a negotiated agreement, and 16% were opposed to any annexation.
Among self-defined leftists, 33% opposed any annexation, and an identical figure supported annexation as part of a peace deal; 14% backed annexing the settlement blocs, and 13% advocated annexing the entirety of the West Bank.
Here are full results:
‘Most Israeli Jews would annex part of West Bank’
Ariel University poll claims nearly 80% support expanding Israeli sovereignty — unilaterally, or as part of a deal with the Palestinians
http://www.timesofisrael.com/most-israeli-jews-would-annex-part-of-west-bank/
The survey, conducted by the Geocartography Institute on behalf of the Israeli university in the West Bank, found that 35 percent of respondents said the government should annex the entire West Bank, 24% said only the settlement blocs should be annexed, 20% answered that any annexation should only take place as part of an agreement with the Palestinians, and 12% said Israel doesn’t need to impose its sovereignty over any part of the West Bank. Nine percent had no answer.
According to the wording of the university’s pollsters, however, “about 80% of the public supports extending Israeli sovereignty to the territories of Judea and Samaria,” biblical terms associated with the West Bank.
Five hundred adult respondents “in Jewish communities in Israel” participated in the survey, which had a margin of error of 4.4%.
A similar poll conducted last year had virtually identical results, except only 15% supported annexation of West Bank territories as part of a deal with the Palestinians, as opposed to 20% in this year’s survey.
A breakdown of the statistics according to political stance found that 50% of those who defined themselves as right-wing advocated annexation of the entire West Bank, 25% advocated annexing the settlement blocs and 13% responded in favor of annexation as part of a peace deal. Only 5% of right-wingers opposed annexation of any of the West Bank.
Centrists were divided over annexing West Bank territory. Sixteen percent were in favor of total annexation, 31% in favor of annexing the settlement blocs, 30% in favor of annexation as part of a negotiated agreement, and 16% were opposed to any annexation.
Among self-defined leftists, 33% opposed any annexation, and an identical figure supported annexation as part of a peace deal; 14% backed annexing the settlement blocs, and 13% advocated annexing the entirety of the West Bank.
You pay or you keep them. You can continue to fight them … or kill them (in which case, Israel will be more of a pariah that it is, today).
It is your problem then.
As for the 1.5 Million Arabs, Ben Gurion promised them equal rights. They are YOURS to love and cherish.
Pay up, or they are yours.
Show a link to all of the poll results. How many were polled and the margin of error?
@ CuriousAmerican:
You pay for them and we will supply the transport at discount prices. Alternative which is more cost effective are bullets and napalm.
Given such a choice which ones do you think your pets will opt for?
How many visas to Argentina can you guarantee? All or nothing, they would have to include 1.5 million Israeli Arabs as well.
YESSSS! Very good news. Those who advocate partial withdrawal should ask themselves, what if Israel had preserved Gush Katif and given up the rest of Gaza. Would that have solved the problem at all? Rockets would still be raining on Israel, and the Arab enclave would still be a nest for Nazi terrorists. ~~~~~ A partial withdrawal is no solution. The terror that a semi-independent Arab enclave in Judea/Samaria would inflict on Israelis would be off the scale.
There is no perfect solution, but the best among all of them is full sovereignty over the land, with the Arab population to be dealt with later, after much study of all the alternatives to citizenship. Paying those under 50 years of age to leave would be the easiest one, if the monetary incentive is attractive enough. No country would ever grant automatic citizenship and voting rights to a population simmering with murderous plans.
Excellent! Now, start the process of enfrancising the Arabs and giving them building permits.
Or pay them to move to South America.
Unfortunately, you have to deal with these people.