By Ted Belman
What’s so scary about a one-state solution.
Gideon Levy in Haaretz entertains it positively:
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If Israelis truly want to maintain the settlements they established, and to remain in the Jordan Valley and on the mountain ridge, in Gush Etzion and in Maale Adumim, in East Jerusalem and leading in Beit El – let them do so, but then there won’t be two states. If there are no two states, there is only one state. If there is one state, then the discourse must change: equal rights for everyone.
The problems are many and complicated, and like them so are the solutions: division into districts, federation, joint or separate governance. But there will be no demographic change here – because the state has long been binational – but rather just a democratic and conscious change. And then the question will arise in full force: Why is it so scary to live in an egalitarian state? Indeed, all other possibilities are much scarier.
He’s right. But citizenship would not be given to everyone immediately but to only qualified Palestinians and over time.
Ministers to mull bill annexing all West Bank settlements
The proposed legislation, to be discussed on Sunday, would bar restricting settlement construction due to diplomatic considerations.
By Jonathan Lis, Haaretz
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A bill calling for the application of Israeli law to all West Bank settlements and all roads leading to them will be discussed by the Ministerial Committee for Legislation on Sunday.
The bill, sponsored by MK Miri Regev (Likud), would also bar the government from restricting settlement construction due to diplomatic considerations, unless it received the Knesset’s explicit permission to do so.
A similar bill that Regev submitted to the previous Knesset failed to pass.
Regev said her bill is meant to prepare Israel to cope with the possibility of a unilateral Palestinian declaration of statehood that would be recognized by most of the world’s countries. If that happened, she wrote in the bill’s explanatory notes, “It would be appropriate for Israel to divest itself of responsibility for and control over Palestinian communities in the territories of Judea and Samaria [the West Bank], but at the same time, it shouldn’t abandon the communities in these territories that have a Jewish majority.
“Unilateral declaration of a Palestinian state would have an immediate and fateful impact on the daily lives of Israeli citizens living in Jewish communities in Judea and Samaria,” she continued. “In light of the fact that the position of [successive] Likud governments in Israel has been that under any future diplomatic agreement, Jewish communities in Judea and Samaria, including the security roads leading to them, will remain in territory under the State of Israel’s control, and Israeli sovereignty will be applied to them, we have an obligation to protect the lives of people living in these communities.”
@ the phoenix:
You can ask al you wish, but my sweet Yamit82 is taking the 5th, like a mafioso. Cherche la feme!!!!!
@ honeybee:
hmmmm
Je me demandais justement la même question……
🙂
yamit82 Said:
Pour quoi????????
@ yamit82:
I new aot of cajan girls when I attended school in Huntsville, Texas. Tough mamas. No like sweet little daughters of Fria, Scallete Johanson and I.
@ honeybee:
Last time I was in Canada I got arrested by Montreal city police. Held me for 2 hours then asked in not so polite French that I return to where I had come from over the border. SOB’s refused to speak English to me. So I answered them in Hebrew only. Battle of wills I won and didn’t go back over the border until I was damn ready to. Never liked French dudes but French dudettes. Hmmm 🙂
@ the phoenix:
Celestrial punishment
@ dove:
Well, pretty much it means what I said:
Typed a comment. Answered the math question. Pressed ‘post comment’…. And poof! the screen went back to where it was PRIOR to my post. The home page showed that…. Nothing happened… They just disappeared! 🙁
I tried a few more times, but then I figured that it is really not such a big deal, and just sent a new post, acknowledging your (plural) comments.
dove Said:
@ the phoenix:
I t mean be nice to Honeybee or get a Celestial smack!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@ the phoenix:
What does that mean? I have had comments on moderation. A couple of weeks ago I had a few comments that completely disappeared. Had to repost them. What do you mean by spammed into cyberspace?
I also had 2 comments – 1 from Shy Guy and 1 from M Devolin that never appeared in the posting. What was with that?
@ dove:
Those OLD RETRED GUYS need to get their kicks somewhere,keeps them from vapor locking
the phoenix Said:
Don’t hold your breath,Maple Sugar!!!!!!!
@ honeybee:
@ dove:
Tried a few times to post. Reply got spammed into cyberspace.
Glad for the results.
🙂
@ honeybee:
Why, aaaah jest got in..
I ran all over town as fast as maaaah snow shoes would carry me.
Been to every gosh darn’ drugstore. No neosporin! No bacitracin! Jeest maple sugah’n beer…..
Seriously, hb and dove I’m glad you ‘be smoked the peace pipe….
🙂
@ honeybee:
Agreed!! 🙂
@ dove:
I shall smoke the “peace pipe” with you!!!!!!! But, that doesn’t mean we can’t respectfully disagree with one another. Phonenix cna now come out from under his bed. I have called of the drone attacks on the Laurentean Mts.
@ honeybee:
Dully noted. 😉
Actually, there is only ONE…..
And now, my dear hb, I got to go…
(Ill stop by the pharmacy on my way back to get some bacitracin, juuuuuust in case….. 😉 )
@ honeybee:
Well HB as I have mentioned before I do not care for the ‘male sterotyping’ of cat fights. Aside from that, I have felt that you have attacked me on many occasions – so let’s just drop it and start over. ok?
I don’t really know what Phoenix meant by low blow as I was not referring to my personal life per se but the Jewish community as a whole. I unfortunately know many Jewish people who begrudge being Jewish – feel they have received an unfair birthrite. In retaliation they are going against Judaism and all things Jewish and are more sympathetic to our enemies. They like their lives better. That is who I have lost.
On a personal level Phoenix is correct – I have lost NO ONE. Losing anti-Semetic parents and sibblings is no loss – rather a relief!!
the phoenix Said:
When you disgree with male posters, do I or Dove call you two fighting dogs.
the phoenix Said:
You will need to buy neosporine by the gross. Dove has said some very unkind things to me. She critical to many poster. “I f you can’t take it, don’t dish it out” old Texas dictum!!!!
@ honeybee:
At the risk of getting scratched, trying to separate two fighting cats , 😉 I would respectfully submit to you hb that that was a very unfair question to which you knew the answer in advance. Dove has shared some of her personal past in one of her previous posts., so you know that with almost 100% certitude, the answer to this question is “no one”.
That was a low blow…
🙁
the phoenix Said:
Does this include chocolate???????
@ the phoenix:
That was caused by catchin rattlesnakes with my teeth and chewin on coyote bones, not maple sugar leaves.
@ honeybee:
Careful with that honeybee…..
Remember your past ‘dental episodes’…..
😉
@ the phoenix:
We have friends rom Canada. They went on a trip to Canada to visit family. I took care of their house plants and TX cared for their horses. They gave us a box of Maple Sugar candies as thank you. Delicious, I have a huge sweet tooth.
@ dove:
Respectivly, whod did you lose?????
@ honeybee:
If you wish it … It is not a legend/ fantasy….and if you do not wish it, it will remain a legend / fantasy
So true.
On so many levels….
yamit82 Said:
That could work. More like Mexico and USA. “Eveybody works in their own economic interest” M.Friedman, Give the Palis an obtanable economic goal.
@ honeybee:
My Father’s Father lost almost his entire family in Lodz,Poland. They were broken, and I’am not broken. It made us more resiliant!!!
the phoenix Said:
Transslation please!!Maple sugar darlin
dove Said:
My Father’s Father lost almost his entire family in Lodz,Poland. They were broken, and I’am not broken. It made us more resilliant!!!
Ted Belman Said:
Change the aims and goals from Peace to relative security with prosperity. Lets admit that a real utopian kind of peace or one such as between (Canada and America), that such peace is not an attainable goal but a condition of peace and quiet may be. Compared to a nuclear armed Iran the Palis are an irritant which can be dealt with in several ways effectively if we are left to our own devices.
Iran is or should be our main concern and the Palis issue at this time is a distraction from dealing with the real problem and real existential threat to Israel. I suspect that’s what in motivating Obama and Kerry at this time. To deflect our attention and energies away from Iran. Yes, I believe that America for what ever her reasons have already factored in and accepted the eventuality of a Nuclear Iran, probably so has BB and Israel by this time.
The Middle East today is a different place than it was just a year or two ago and that New ME should be factored into our strategic thinking and policy making. The current approaches wrt the Palis do not seem to have yet to have had any effect same o(l)’ same o(l)’!!!!!
yamit82 Said:
the arabs have been investing heavily in media on a global basis. this is probably how they keep western fools repeating the “religion of peace” mantra. TV weekly shows in England, and Europe, usually have the obligatory muslim in a group of friends. that muslim is usually portrayed as assimilationist, british through and through, young and rebellious against religious strictures, basically secular, definitely not a threat, peaceful, ethical, full of values, moral, etc etc etc. brainwashing is accomplished through news AND entertainment.
@ bernard ross:
@ Salomon Benzimra:
Salomon Benzimra Said:
Suggestion: Israel would be better off investing in the New York Times than F-35’s. For half the cost of our useless F-35 deal, we could have acquired the entire NYT; a controlling share cost something like the two planes. Beyond doubt, using American media to convince American public opinion that what is good for Israel – bombing Iran, for example – is incidentally good for the United States, too, is a much cheaper and more efficient way of conducting our foreign policy – or wars. just a thought. 😉
the phoenix Said:
yamit82 Said:
It is the Jews who must be convinced. The Jews must be awakened to accepting that the swindling, libeling, torturing and slaughter of 2000 years is not just a passing stage of civilization. It is an intentional pathology continuing today primarily directed from Europe. The Jews still do not accept or believe in the reality that occurred in the holocaust. the slaughter of returning polish jews after the war should have been a hint. The massive european gov and church funding, and moral support, of BDS and the muslim Jew killers should be today’s hint. Europe is still a serious threat and a serious existential enemy. Blinders need removing and behavior fully exposed for the jews to see and internalize. European influence in israel should be the starting point , they must be expelled. Would it have been a reasonable argument that money is to be made from the nazis so lets ignore them?
Ted Belman Said:
Also, I believe that Jews need to see how they have been manipulated into accepting double standards e.g. they can accept the uprooting of jews but not the uprooting of others. This is a masochistic Stockholm syndrome effect. The jews always accepts his own suffering like a child who believes he deserves to be punished. The jews listen to the narratives about the woes of others but ignores his own. therefore, there needs to be a correction of records but also an education as to how the pattern of abuse of the Jews has not had one moment of hiatus in Europe: they have continued to support Jew killers even while donning the fig leaf of holocaust remembrance events. An awakening to many truths is needed to remove the brainwashing and self-abuse.
yamit82 Said:
In my view it should be primarily the jews. I believe that many Jews are ignorant and have been brainwashed to the Pal narrative primarily by other Jews. If the Jews are woke up then I believe it will change. the Jews are disunited and befuddled with BS. Diaspora Jews tend to look to Israel for the truth and facts and they are fed the leftist Israeli narrative which supports the arab narrative. Leftist israeli perspective is the main target, their propaganda media and their effect on the Israeli ignorant population. If the Israeli media sources links to the international services were not always Haaretz perhaps things would change. Haaretz sources are the main quoted sources still on international feeds.
@ the phoenix:
This is very true and well put! I do not believe that Hashem is as harsh on us as we are on ourselves. Since the holocaust we are broken people. Waiting or insisting for all the Jews to head to shul and return to the homeland before we can win is not going to happen. We can unite just as we are, where we are by joining hands around the globe. Then we will be restored!!
@ yamit82:
Read your comment last night. It elicited what I can only define as a “eureka” moment. In fact your reply to salomon ,
brings a lot of clarity to the picture.
OF COURSE, they know the truth
OF COURSE, they ignore it…. WILLLFULLY
OF COURSE, they favor lies
for the simple reason that this whole sickening charade, is a kangaroo court where the desired end result, is determined in advance.
It is primal. It is visceral. It is genetic. It is immutable.
It is pure HATRED OF THE JEW, AND AN OBSESSIVE DESIRE TO ERADICATE HIM FROM THE EARTH.
It is only when THIS simple concept is understood and internalized BY THE JEWS, that we have NO FRIENDS, and the only answer is Hillel’s “If I am not for myself, who will be for me? ” and THAT, is to be applied as a principle for the NATION, that we’ll turn the corner.
When the five separate fingers of the nation (secular jews, religious jews,israeli jews, diaspora jews, perplexed & etc jews)unite into ONE STRONG MIGHTY FIST, the sound of the barking dogs will cease as they slowly walk backwards with their tail between their legs, whimpering…
Wishful thinking? Maybe…
But then again, ‘im tirtzu, ein zo agada; ve’im lo tirtzu, agada hi ve’agada tisha’er’,
@ Salomon Benzimra:Not only must we correct the record as you suggest but we should also show there are alternative solutions. Some people who know the truth still support the TSS because they don’t think there is a viable alternative. We must convince them otherwise. Let everyone evaluate the two plans from a point of view as to which is achievable and whether it will bring peace. This evaluation doesn’t depend of the true narrative or the law.
Salomon Benzimra Said:
That would certainly narrow your potential target audience to a very inconsequential few.
@ yamit82:
There hate/jealousy towards the Jews is PARAMOUNT. They “care” about the Pal only because it undermines the Jews cause. In that respect they are not different from the Muslims.
@ yamit82:
To answer you briefly: anyone party who believes that factual evidence is important and is capable and willing to act upon it.
@ Salomon Benzimra:
Who is your primary audience or group/groups whose opinions you seek to transform?
State clearly what you believe to be the root cause or causes of our conflict with the Arabs claiming Palestinian identity?
What do you believe are the primary reasons why till now we have not been able to conclude an agreement ending the conflict or dispute with the Arabs living in the territories?
Do you not accept and believe that middle east experts in the State dept. The British Foreign office and most other Western counterparts do not know the truth and the lies re: the Palis Narrative and the agreements relating to Israel since 1919. I am sure much of academia in related disciplines are aware of the truth as well.
Since I assume they know the truth and willfully ignore it in favor of the lies then who do you want to convince ?
@ Ted Belman:
Ted, every proposed plan has its merits as well as its shortcomings which will be targeted mercilessly by opponents of every persuasion. So I ask: why this idée fixe about rushing to propose “solutions” when we have so much to do before we could even sketch out the right one?
I believe we are “reacting” slavishly to the Left’s prodding in rushing in peace proposals. Aren’t we always “reacting”? Why not, for a change, be proactive, get to the bottom of the Palestinian issue, and let the Left react?
In summary, this is how I see this matter: (for details, please see the transcript of my latest presentation)
In Hotovely Presents: The Gradual Plan – ‘Annexation – Naturalization’ it was reported:
@ Salomon Benzimra:
This is a great idea as long as the “one-state solution” leads to and strengthens the “one Jewish state solution.”
Before we embark on that route we should give some thought to the following:
1. Assert the territorial integrity of the Land of Israel, as it was reconstituted under international law. The world forgot; it must be reminded.
2. Article 1 of the Palestinian National Charter states one truth (among countless fabrications): “…The Palestinian people are an integral part of the Arab nation.” No nation, or part thereof, has the right to self-determinaton within the boundaries of another recognized nation. Otherwise, chaos would spread around the world.
This has long been my OWN view.
@ mikewise:
Three very significant points.
— Hear, hear!
If one finds an unwelcome guest in their home do they abandon their home or part of it to that guest? If one is faced with an intolerant, hostile, aggressive, murdering neighbor does one leave his home to the neighbor and run away? Keeping what belongs to oneself does not mean that you must put up with an unwelcome occupant with whom no one would live. The onus was on the arabs to live in peace, the Jews did everything to make that happen. It is now too late for living with such a neighbor.
Some things are clearer with common sense.
Keep the land but,
Throw the bum out!
they are all coming around. even Gideon Levy!
http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.571863
Levy says at the end of his article “If there is one state, then the discourse must change: equal rights for everyone.”
but dear gideon, please remember that citizenship must be earned!
read carefully
http://www.onestateplan.com
ISRAELI CITIZENSHIP
It is essential that the process and strategy of offering Israeli citizenship to West Bank Arabs must be very carefully planned, including its timing, demographic, geographic, historical and social factors. Citizenship will include all the benefits currently available to the citizens of Israel including: health care, education, welfare, economic incentives, employment, social safety nets, voting rights and others. The responsibilities of citizenship will include a public oath of loyalty to the State of Israel. The procedures and the details of the citizenship offer will be determined as an internal matter by the State of Israel. Each country determines its own citizenship rules and there are many models ranging from extremes like Switzerland where citizenship is often not granted for several generations, and the extremely restrictive standards set by Islamic States to the more liberal standards applied by other countries. Since the process will be phased in over time, the possibility to adjust the procedures appropriately will be available as circumstances require.
The key element is clear. The question of how to deal with the West Bank population will be converted to an internal Israeli matter and not the subject of global concern of ?do-gooders? protecting an ?occupied? population. From a humanitarian perspective, social services available to the West Bank population will meet the highest global standards.
Gideon Levy almost gets it right! WOW.
Except for the business of Arab enfranchisement.
What needs to be done is annexation of the entirety of J&S and the completion of the population exchange that was initiated by the Arabs from 1948. The palyis need to be deposited across the river to the carved out portion of the Mandate that was given over to the Arabs.
And we’re done!