T. Belman. Nash is wrong to conflate Russia with the USSR at least during the first two decades of this century.
Part II: The Russian courtship of Israel during the first two decades of this century.
Part III: Russia’s Predicaments both foreign and domestic
Part IV: Can Russia be induced to use its UN veto to protect Israel
By Tom Nash 1 March 2024
@Laura
So is it your conjecture that the US invaded Iraq to save the people of Iraq? What baloney. The US went into Iraq because of the Antrhax attack which Iraq had absolutely no involvement. The US knew this within hours to days of the Anthrax attack, and there was even a WSJ article two weeks after the attack demonstrating that the anthrax came from a US bioweapons lab in Iowa. The biolab destroyed its samples and the US claimed that Iraq had masterminded the attack despite this fact, and two years later invaded Iraq to remove Saddam from power. This was not a rescue mission, it was a war of regime change, and one in which one million Iraqi’s civilians died.
Really? Then why did it cost the US nearly $1Bn dollars just thru July, and the campaign continued til October? Is it your contention that the US did not fly its B2 Stealth bombers all the way from Missouri to bomb Libya? Is it your contention that the US did not have amphibious marines on site, or that US smart bombs were not employed, or that it was US surveilance which guided that war to its final conclusion. And what was its conclusion? Once again, it was a war of regime change at the cost of the entire nation of Libya, an ally of the US and the most progressive Arab nation in the Middle East.
What would you call it when one country bombs another country into submission, forcing its govt to be put on trial, and then, on a whim, they carved out the heart of that nation to create another altogether new country? And still you deny that this was a war of conquest? Well, the people of Serbia certainly considered themselves conquered. It was in any event another war of regime change.
In fact all three of these wars were without any proper pretext, without a legal basis, aimed at regime change of govts to which the US took a dislike, for small reasons and large, but none of these reasons could legitimately validate the wars which were perpetrated on these nations. These are not the actions which are consistent with a Republic, but they are the actions which are consistent with an empire.
It has never been my position that the US is inherently an evil nation, but rather I would suggest and have argued that quite the opposite is true. This being stated, the US has lost its way, and is in great need of political, institutional, judicial and economic reform. The thing which made America great has always been the American people and the values on which that mighty nation was founded. Yet in the course of time, those values have been distorted, denied and disregarded, leading to the tragic consequences which are far greater than just the terror reigned down on these three nations. The chickens of regime change have now come home to roost in America, and I hope to see the Americans put its house back in order, Make America Great Again, and with the same effort, to once and for all end the notion that wars should be waged on foreign shores for gentle slights or fabricated offenses. The costs of such villainous enterprises have been far too great, for both America and the world at large.
You accused us of “conquering” nations in the last 20 years. I addressed Iraq which we didn’t “savage”, saddam hussein did along with other terrorist factions. Libya was a UK and France operation. If anything, we’ve drawn down our forces in the Middle East and our military is the smallest since before WW2. Coincidentally, a smaller US military presence has led to increased global chaos. That kind of contradicts your notion that America is the problem. Serbia, I didn’t agree with, but we did not “conquer” Serbia. A stupid policy doesn’t amount to being imperialistic. Russia is trying to reclaim a literal empire.
Laura
You are once again fighting a straw man. I did not mention Afganistan, not once, not even in any reference. I am curious why you refuse to address the issues which I provided as evidence of American imperialist hegemony:
The US did conquer these nations, drove them into submission (Serbia), surrender (Iraq) and destruction (Libya) and in the case of Serbia, that nation was vivisected to reward the Islamist terrorist KLA, with whom the US chose to ally itself, with its own cutout kingdom.
None of this is relatable to the permanence of Muslim societies, which the US should have no business nor interest in either ruling nor imposing American values upon. Republics do not conduct themselves as the US acted in these military adventures. So once again if the actions of the US were not those of an imperialist hegemon, working its will on the sovereign people of Serbia, Libya or Iraq, what the hell was it doing there, as there was no provocation by any of them to invite the US savagery which had been brought on them.
This is not about Left or Right, it is about American values and unAmerican values. Is it your position that what we did in Serbia is consistent with American values? What about Libya? What about Iraq? My position is that these events were entirely without any foundation and completely contrasts with American values. Now that we know your position on the unrelated topic of Afganistan, what is your position on the events which I did cite?
Why? I guess you’ve forgotten about 9/11. Yet, far from conquering, we left Afghanistan. We didn’t savage that or any other nation, their own rulers and various terrorist groups and warlords have done that to Afghanistan. We gave Iraqis a chance to vote and build a better society, but true to form they reverted back to the primal savages they are. The only mistake we made is in thinking we could civilize 7th century people. But like the left, you blame America first for the disfunction in muslim societies. I’ll say it again, we are not the imperialists, we didn’t conquer these nations. This is just typical anti-American diatribe which the left has always pushed and now sadly is being pushed equally by the right.
@Laura
Really, what about those nations which did not ask for US protection, as I noted
If the US is not an empire, what was it doing in Serbia, Libya and Iraq? Thesee were wars of conquest, nothing more. If the US was not acting the part of an empire in doing so, you will have to explain why that is. Of course you will choose not to respond, because, quite simply, what response could be offered.
I hope you stay Bear Klein.
This is not evidence of an empire but rather sovereign nations choosing to host American bases for the purpose of mutual defense from the real imperial powers Russia and China. We didn’t force NATO nations, Japan, SK etc. to host our military bases. These countries want our protection from the real imperial neighbors who threaten them. You make absurd arguments.
No wonder so many Russian’s flee Putin and his cronies. No wonder the Russian Jews flee whenever they can.
What is amazing are the apologists for Putin. The endless and repetitive Red Herring and faulty arguments, and plain Putin propaganda keep spilling onto the pages of Israpundit to try and cover or divert attention of blame for all of Putin and Russia’s crimes including mass murder and stealing children in mass from their parents.
Those of you on this blog who are not PutinPundits you show character and persistence. As I now have many things going on in my life I will again bow out to take care of those personal things.
Welcome back, Bear.
@Felix
Well, I keep waiting for a clear argument to change my mind, but it seems that there just isn’t one to be made. I have to admit that Bear at least raises challenging questions rather than resting on derogatory ad hominem attacks to make his case. That being said, the arguments either lack credibility or are exactly replicated or worse in the West. As Ted made the case some time ago, America is the Bad Guy, and it is due to the corrupt and dodgy leadership which has betrayed both the US and the world over which it held dominion for the past thirty years. A very unfortunate period of time for all, I believe.
@Sebastien
To be honest I wasn’t either. I woke up after the creation of Kosovo in 2007 and a year after that, the fellow who was claimed to be the culprit of the Anthrax attack ‘killed himself’ because he was not taken into custody, and thus closed the case with no arrests, and no charges. I did a deep dive on the matter at the time and was horrified to realize what was taking place while I was doing otherwise occupied.
Also the US knew the Anthrax came from the Iowa lab just a few days after the attacks took place in 2001, and it hit the WSJ in about two weeks. This was 2yrs before the US went to war with Iraq over the Anthrax attack. That war was completely manipulated by the US, much to the glee of Iran.
@Peloni Thank you. I missed that. I wasn’t following politics as closely as I am now during that period.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UneS2Uwc6xw
@Sebastien
https://www.wired.com/2011/03/did-the-anthrax-attacks-kickstart-the-iraq-war/
Also
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/sep/15/anthrax-iraq
Your comments about the press are well made. The fourth estate has been completely purchased by the political class.
@Peloni I remember the Anthrax attack but I don’t remember it being used as the pretext.
Saddam Hussein was behind the 1993 bungled bombing of the World trade Center and the attempt on Former President Bush’s life, later on, however. And Iraq, like Afghanistan were bases and safe havens for international terror groups.
Yes, instead of overthrowing then allies, Quadaffi and Mubarak, we should have gone after Iran. Common sense.
And we should never have left Iraq and Afghanistan as long as they were unpacified, any more than we did Germany, Japan and Italy!
The legacy media is the problem. Has been since Vietnam. The only reason these conflicts, like Gaza and Ukraine, are so stressful here is that the media shoves them into people’s living rooms 24/7 with hysterical drumbeat.
I saw CNN playing in a waiting room of my gym and I said to an older African-American (I’m assuming) gentleman sitting there looking at his phone and ignoring it, they should call this the “Trump/Ukraine channel”. He nodded and chuckled without looking up from his phone. 😀
I recently saw a terrific Japanese movie with English subtitles in the theaters now, directed by Wim Wenders and co-written and produced with Takuma Takasaki about an older man – from an upper class background, we learn – who leads a simple, tranquil life in Tokyo cleaning public toilets and living enjoyably as though it’s still the 1970s.
“Perfect Days” (2023)
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt27503384/
Koji Yakusho, won Best Actor award at Cannes for this role and the film has been nominated for an Oscar for best international feature film at the 2024 Academy Awards. It’s a beautiful and inspiring film. I hope it wins.
@Bear
One more thing to add:
Like the Clintons did.
Notably autocratic behavior to defend the regime is not an exclusively Russian response to perceived dangers and this has certainly been seen to be true in the US.
@Sebastien
For clarity, I was referencing the anthrax attack which was the pretext for invading Iraq. I think that the phrase ‘truthers’ references the idea that the US was involved with or knew of the attack on 911 beforehand.
Notably, the anthrax attack involved the use of anthrax which was known to be developed at the US biolab in an university at Aimes Iowa (thus the infamous Aimes strain of anthrax). There is no way that this was honestly believed to have been an Iraqi attack, IMO. What is more is that the anthrax was specifically used to threaten the two main political obstacles to the passage of the Patriot Act, one was Sen. Daschle and Leahy, who dropped their opposition to the Patriot act following the anthrax attack.
So with one fell swoop, the US forged the war in Iraq and got their unconstitutional Patriot act passed all in the same moment. Was this coincidentally lucky, and the crazy fellow who was implicated just happened to be allowed the opportunity to shoot himself before being taken into custody several years later. A good bit of faith to believe all of that, but whatever the reality is of this larger story, there is no chance that the anthrax was the real reason why they invaded Iraq. Also, there was no connection between Iraq and 911, but it was well known that the Saudi’s were involved in 911, and instead of invading SA, the US buried the evidence implicating the Saudis while they invaded Iraq. This was a war of conquest against Iraq, which just by coincidence eliminated Iran’s chief rival in the region. Funny that if the US was going to invade a nation on a false pretext to deter WMD that they would choose Iraq and not Iran. Well, the Mullahs are laughing all the way to their nuclear bunkers, twenty years after the conquest of Iraq and the execution of Saddam Hussein.
Peloni
When these scum of the Earth raise Marx They mean something different.
They want to (once again) attack.
They want to paint Marx as a kind of religious icon.
From Joseph Stalin on they did this in a big way.
Marx was revolted by this. He saw what was happening even back then this was so.
This man Bear has no shame. I was struck by how his lies against Putin are a mirror of the lies of Israeli Fascists against Netanyahu.
Not in content. But the Method.
Thanks for your fortitude. I feel enraged and weakened.
PS I am far removed from Putin but I always see Russia like Israel IS THE VICTIM HERE
@Peloni
If true, which I don’t accept, it would, nonetheless, corroborate my hypothesis that Deep State government strategists are getting their hairbrained schemes from Hollywood, which, as we know, has a revolving door relationship with the government going back a long ways.
Here’s another that brings to mind the war with Russia going on today from 1995, which I have posted before. Trailer for “Canadian Bacon” (1995). Hochul recently got some blowback for comparing Hamas attacking Israel with Canada attacking the U.S 😀 as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jf8Bt4gD9Y
This is a hilarious clip satirizing left wing political correctness. From a leftist who made a couple of good films, this and “Roger and Me” who is now utterly awful, Michael Moore.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDGkQiwh_qg
This was a great film debunking the U.N. based on that format,
U.N. Me
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIzDt5NPYfI
@Peloni
I think Felix, Peloni and Seymour are trying to set us all adrift on a fishing boat in the surf behind Peter Zeihan.
Getting back to what Tom and Peter actually SAID, they were noting that
1. Israel has officially begun siding with Ukraine against Russia, and
2. the two countries were not all that friendly before this.
Nash, of course, made the caveat that sometimes Israel and Russia tolerated one another (such as in Syria a few years ago), and at one time (actually, only before 1956*, not 1960, as Nash said), they actually were good friends.
What Tom Nash was referring to was, of course, (1) Stalin’s supplying Israel with captured Nazi weapons during Israel-s war of independence — something he was blackmailed into doing — and (2) the early 1960s, when US President Kennedy agreed to send Hawk missiles to Israel, and the Soviets responded by “re-creating” both Yasser Arafat and the PLO.
I will note that four years before JFK got elected, almost to the day, the US and USSR both sided against Israel (and also against the UK and France) during the Suez Crisis of 1956.
So much for what was actually SAID in the video. Once they began commenting, of course, the Israpundit Trio (Peloni, Seymour and Felix) turned the conversation to Putinophobia, American Imperialism, etc.
(BTW, my apologies to TED Belman, not “Tim”, which I said in a lapse)
It read something like the time Krushchev (a Ukrainian, oddly enough) pounded his shoe on the lectern at the UN to announce to the US that the Soviets would “bury” us. (I’m still waiting for the other shoe to drop — I don’t think it will).
So, repeating it for emphasis, Nash and Zeihan were talking about the history of Israeli-Russian relations, which have technically taken a turn for the worse in the past few days.
@Laura
Actually, a Marxist would say that the US has a capitalist empire which has enslaved the masses for centuries, but I will defer to our resident Marxist, Felix, for confirmation on that as I am easily no Marxist. I have read from them to understand their perspectives such as is, however.
By the way, if the US has no empire, why is that the US has armed forces all around the world. Why is it that the US has been involved in dismantling, conquering and savaging nations around the world for the past twenty years, if the US is not an empire. There are plenty of examples, but the best are Serbia, Libya and Iraq, with Serbia being the best example, where the US even gutted the country, violated centuries of accepted norms and cut the state of Kosovo from historic Serbia on a whim. Yet the US is not an empire? Ok, I’ll bite, then how would you describe these actions. How is it that the US has de-industrialized Europe and specifically Germany, and yet the Germans have not objected to having their greatest source of energy blown up?
@Bear
Good to hear from you. It has been quite some time. I have missed your challenging comments, but it seems you have made up for lost time here.
This is why it was a mistake to push Russia into the position in which it is dependent upon Iran and China. Doing so has made Israel more dependent upon the US just when the US is adopting its most hostile position to Israel.
Very likely true, but he did not kill Khodorkovsky, and even released him after using his influence to manipulate the Russian justice system against him.
This is not accurate, but even if it were completely accurate, how much better is that the US makes war on nations which are completely unaffiliate, unrelated, and thousands of miles from its borders. Serbia was savaged and left in a state of ruin until it finally fell prey to the financial tentacles of the CCP. Libya, which was an ally of the US, was one of the most progressive Arab nations in the world, and it was bombed into the stone age, and still remains a failed state for over a decade. The US used a domestic terror plot, which was likely carried out by the US govt, as a pretext to invade Iraq. So if Putin makes war on his neighbors regularly, how does this compare to what the US has done.
Nuclear war was first threatened against Russia. Russia has always maintained that nuclear weapons will be used to defend its homeland, and any other nation would do the same. If Russia was going to use nukes for offensive purposes, why has she not done so in all the many wars you claim she has made against her neighbors?
It is interesting that you failed to take note of the fact that Ukraine was noted to be the greatest source of human trafficking prior to the war with Russia. So now Russia takes children from Russian territory which is a war zone and you call it a war crime. Propaganda.
Well, we are all victims of the US coup in Ukraine which has brought us to this moment. Regarding the Russians, do remind me of how many millions of Russians left Russia after the war began. It would seem that if Putin is such a dictator, that the Russians should emigrate to less despotic nations, though as the West has become something of a despotic Globalist collective, I am not sure where the Russians might go to find relief. Perhaps that is why those who didn’t leave, didn’t leave.
Quoting number of casualties is a fools game. It is not knowable how many men either Russia or Ukraine have lost, so using guestimates based on propaganda seems silly to discuss.
This is because this is the only economic carveout from the American sanctions on Russia. Even today, that carveout is maintained by the US, almost as if the US wants Iran to have that technology, which is because they do.
Yes, I got your point.
Putin needs to be brought back into the West, away from China, so that the US might have a feasible chance of dealing with the Chinese when or if the conflict with China materializes, which with the current mishugas in the US State Dept might be next week.
Good chat.
Very well said, Bear Klein. One more rational thinker regarding Putin here. That makes maybe 4 of us.
Absurd. We never had an empire. You talk like the marxists.
@Laura
That sounds like pretty specific intelligence. I am wondering if he told you this or if you divined it yourself. Forgive me but your abject hatred of the man does seem to warp your opinion on this matter.
For that matter, what does it matter that Russia was imperialistic before the USSR. Was England not imperialistic in that same period. Was France not imperialistic in that same period. Was Germany not imperialistic in that same period. And was the US not imperialistic in that same period. And yet today, it is America who has the empire upon whom the sun never sets, with bases around the world, its armies having worked its will upon the Serbs, the Libyans, the Iraqis and the Afganis over a period of twenty years. And now it is extending its power to the doorstep of Russia feigning any responsibility for what mischief they cause by doing so.
So, yes Imperial Russia was an imperial state, but, like the isolationist Americans of the interwar years, this has no bearing on matters taking place today, anymore than they did during the Soviet period.
As seymour states, it is the US which holds the empire today, an empire which is still trying to expand even as it is very much in decline.
Truth be told, Putin doesn’t even care about Russians who he’s sending to their deaths, his real motivation is his own power.
Thank you, Michael for your sanity on this issue. The putinites ignore the fact that Russia was imperialistic prior to the USSR. What does it matter whether putin is an ideological communist or is a fascist who’s motivated by Russian nationalism. The bottom line is that he threatens to reestablish the Russian empire and retake the free sovereign nations of eastern Europe. I guess they are ok with a Russian empire as long as its fascist rather than communist. The people who support Putin are not patriotic Americans who believe in the values of our founding fathers.
Peloni,
…is that you would be dead or slowly dying. Nuclear exchanges tend to do that.
Nash and Zeihan have done an excellent job.
@seymour
Very well stated.
One distinction which I would make is that NATO, which has taken on the role of an agressive transnational organization, would be more likely to unleash nuclear weapons than Putin, who would only do so to prevent the overthrow of his nation.
Again, very well explained.
Russia under Putin is no more a continuation of the USSR than the US today under Obama’s third term is a continuation of the vision of the founding fathers. Indeed if you want to talk about empire Russia doesn’t compare at the moment to the US.
As far as Putin and nuclear war is concerned let’s be clear because the msm certainly has not been. Putins remarks were made in direct response to threats by France and UK to introduce NATO troops to Ukraine, in other words NATO starting WW III. Unlike the idiots now ruling over western nations Putin knows history. If NATO continues down the road it’s on and kindles a great power war, it’s very simple, all bets are off. NATO would be as likely to unleash nuclear weapons as Russia would.
Michael
You are such a clown.
A waste of time. My only thought “Get me out of here!”
It’s interesting to see Nash and Zeihan together on the same page. Concerning Tim Belman’s comments about “conflating Russia with the USSR”, I simply don’t agree. The USSR was simply an outgrowth of the old Russian Empire. After WWI, they made some boundary adjustments (Finland, Estonia, Latvia, most of Poland and half of Ukraine); after the Molotov-Ribbentrop agreement they made others, after WWII they made others and in 1992 they made others. In Georgia, Ukraine, Moldova, etc., they are trying to continue this history but meeting with resistance.
A very important shift took place in 1982, when the KGB took over the Soviet Union. Andropov was KGB, Gorbachev was KGB and Putin was KGB. Russia is, for practical purposes THE continuation of the USSR — for what that matters.
In other matters, Tom Nash says he hopes Putin is kidding about starting a nuclear war with the West. I certainly hope so too; but I certainly don’t put my trust in that prospect. I think a nuclear exchange is likely in the near future.