By Vic Rosenthal
All courses of action are risky, so prudence is not in avoiding danger (it’s impossible), but calculating risk and acting decisively. Make mistakes of ambition and not mistakes of sloth. Develop the strength to do bold things, not the strength to suffer. – Machiavelli
Recently, in response to my saying that the Palestinian Authority was more trouble than it is worth, a reader asked “what exactly is the alternative?”
To broaden his question a bit, we might ask “what is the alternative to what Israel is doing now,” which is essentially as little as possible — reacting to threats, but taking no initiatives.
I hate to disappoint him, but I don’t have a detailed solution worked out. I don’t know enough to develop one. I will leave the details to the experts, like Caroline Glick, Yoram Ettinger, and others.
I am a former logic teacher so I am not good at coming up with new plans. What I am good at is showing where ideas are contradictory, and deducing the implications of facts. So here is some logical thinking about Israel and the Palestinian Arabs.
Logic can tell us where a solution does not lie, and one place is negotiations with today’s Palestinian leadership for another partition of the land into Jewish and Palestinian states. A truly sovereign Palestinian state in the territories is inconsistent with Israel’s security, and anyway there is insufficient overlap between the bottom lines of the parties to reach an agreement.
Even more so (a fortiori or adraba) is it not possible to reach such an agreement in the framework of mediation or arbitration by entities hostile to Israel, like the Arab League, the UN or the Obama Administration. If somehow a partition were imposed by external powers, it would certainly, sooner or later, lead to the end of the Jewish state.
Since most of the nations of the world seem to favor partition, either they consistently believe that there should not be a Jewish state, or they — for various political reasons — assert two contradictory propositions: that the Jewish state should exist and that the land should be partitioned. The latter is the public position of the Obama Administration.
My analysis of the thinking of Obama and his circle is that they can make these contradictory statements because they simply ignoreconsiderations of Israel’s security. The reversal of the outcome of the 1967 war is top priority — it is the only priority in this connection — and their thinking stops there. So they can go on to say that they are committed to Israel’s security because they don’t think about what that means in practical terms. This, anyway, is the most generous interpretation I can come up with.
In any event, it’s clear that if Israel is to survive, it will have to go against the wishes of almost the entire world, including its ‘ally’, the US. The reason that Israel is presently behaving in an entirely reactive way and taking no initiative is that Israeli leaders believe that any positive action will bring about retaliation from its allies and enemies alike.
This is the excessive prudence in avoiding danger that Machiavelli warns us against. It is psychologically and diplomatically a dangerous tactic, because it broadcasts weakness and invites more pressure to conform. If Israel stays put as Palestinian positions become more extreme, the ‘consensus point’ moves away from Israel.
The Left continually says that ‘the status quo is unsustainable’ because the world will ultimately step in and sanction Israel. I think they are correct in this, but their conclusion — that Israel should make further concessions to achieve an agreement with the Palestinians — is a non-sequitur, and its implementation would be disastrous.
My argument is that Israel should move in the other direction — for example, take steps that increase, rather than decrease, its degree of sovereignty in Judea, Samaria and eastern Jerusalem (I know that legally it is fully sovereign in all of Jerusalem, but de facto it is another story in many areas).
It should respond disproportionately to terrorism, without overly restrictive rules of engagement.
It should move forward with the understanding that the world will notapprove of its actions, but it should act in accordance with its security needs, not the desires of external powers. After all, most of these powers do not wish it well as it is.
It should also present the reasons for its actions transparently in public diplomacy. For example, there is no reason to pretend that a “two-state solution” is its objective.
There could be economic and diplomatic retaliation, but Israel’s economy is strong and its leverage will improve with the development of its natural gas resources. Anyway, if we do nothing the pressure will only increase.
From a security point of view, it is better to be respected, even feared, than liked (Machiavelli said something like this too). The Jew among nations cannot expect to be liked, but it could be respected.
@ M Devolin:
Happy day after Dev. Hope you had a good birthday. Today is the first day of the rest of your life.
You peeps make me feel so young! For those of you who have divulged your age you’ve ALL got me beat! 🙂
You actually look a lot younger than 60 in your pics. You must be one of those where 60 is the new 40.
Have a good day…
Thank you, mar55. I really appreciate your well wishes.
This is why I am a big supporter of GTFOOI.
This is also why I believe that Christians and Muslims and other religious should not be allowed to buy land in Israel.
“Our mission is Isolation, so we can create the most ideal society and thus act like a light house attracting others. That way they come to us and we not to them. That is the meaning of a light to the nations. There must be a unique separate Jewish society where Jews can demonstrate in practical applications How Hashem want the world to behave and interact. Only in a sovereign Jewish State can that be accomplished.”
Exactly, Yamit!! This is exactly what I believe. This is the essence of Torah Zionism (I speak as a Gentile). I have always believed this. This is why I believe is it forbidden for Noachides to discourage in any way a Jew from doing aliya.
yamit82 Said:
You & TX A+,,, or I wouldn’t waste my time with you, Darlin.
honeybee Said:
You didn’t say whether that was good or bad. Since you’re a ‘connoisseur’ I am very much interested in hearing your opinion. 😉
honeybee Said:
Tell me about them.
@ honeybee:
Thank You HB
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8uN2M3JCOgAEvpPhXtXSIQ
@ yamit82:
I left Israpundit for awhile. When I returned there was a tech glich and I could not sign in as Mer. I had forgotten my password and was now using a different email address and was not able to retrieve it. So I came back as dove…..but I let you guys know as I believe I owe it to the Jewish people to have full disclosure.
A prominent lawyer told me it wasn’t going to be easy. A Rabbi told me it doesn’t matter if I don’t have to prove to myself that I am a Jew, I have a duty and a responsiblity to the Jewish people – if I am going to be ‘coming out of the closet’ as a Jew then I better do it the Jewish way. I was having issues at the time with the Mikveh and he explained why it was necessary. I explained to him that it will be when I choose and I will choose my own witnesses and not have the ones that were appointed to me. He said fair enough. We the rabbis are responsible for losing our flock and we have to acknowledge that. He was a good Rabbi. Would help any Jew – whether they were from his congregation or not. Then he moved back to the U.S. -(
@ yamit82:
This may be of interest to you: http://www.amazon.com/Last-Unjust-Documentary/dp/B00KZKWQ4I/ref=sr_1_1?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1410895852&sr=1-1&keywords=last+of+the+unjust
@ dove:
I love you dove I push and you push back. I like that.
What ever happened to Mer? Came across one of our old conversations in the archives. You’ve come a long way girl.
yamit82 Said:
Try Honeycake and Hamentashen !!!!!!!!!!!
yamit82 Said:
no hemming an hawing here
yamit82 Said:
This is how I see the BDS’ folks and churches, the euro govs and institutions.
Usually, with most catastrophes a lucky few survive, perhaps they were the few righteous ones.
yamit82 Said:
I think you made an error in atributing your quote of Dwellers to Dove. I have asked for Dweller to prove his libel in bold above which is ludicrous as my first wife was divorced in 1980 and the second died in 2002. Therefore, even with dweller psychobabble and logic, it is difficult to prove that the absence of marriage denotes “serous marital issues” but I am positive that Dweller will try to make such a ludicrous assertion, or he will ignore his obvious and usual error, which is of course, as follows:
However, this simple undeniable fact does not deter him from continuing to use his psychobabble to slur posters here usually to obfuscate the fact that his argument is totally rubbish, has fallen flat, and he needs to escape, to create a new tangent before he is exposed. You may remember that I refused to answer his question so as not to allow him his usual escape route through a new tangent about my “marriage”. I said I would reveal my status later when it could not be used for his cowardly escape route, which I did.
Are you taking bets as to how he will squirm his way out this time when he finds out that I was not married as a result of death since 2002. It is much more likely, due to his pathology of never admitting error, that he will invent a psychobabble to demonstrate that the absence of marriage denotes a “serious marital issue”. 😛
yamit82 Said:
GIVE ME A BREAK. COWBOY , you are the very essence of machismo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I know that because I am a conasuer of machismo.
@ yamit82:
No, it is not less for me at all. I have always had a Jewish soul and have been reminded all along that I am different. It can also be manifested through character – whether a person knows that you are Jewish or not.
In my case, there were those who knew before me as my biological father was Jewish – something that was kept from me but THEY KNEW and tried every which way to keep me as a gentile.
I agree with you. I will also settle for respect but will not tolerate crap. Example – had a phone call from a sister in law (Jew hater) during the High Holidays. Coincidence? Not at all! All she really learned from me is that I am stronger today than yesterday and will be stronger tomorrow than today. When confronted I let her know that I will not tolerate mistreatment from others. From her I command respect or she knows take a nice long walk off a short pier!
M Devolin Said:
You both humble and embarrass me. I am a very flawed Jew but I am real. Thanks good friend.
Never drop your guard!
M Devolin Said:
I have a good friends from those days both jamaicans and expatriates. Almost all of them were non Jews, the close ones treated me as a member of their family to this day.
@ dove:
I don’t disagree. Why would you think that I do. I’m just attempting to add some perspective and reality.
It’s a complex issue with many nuances. Many of our life experiences are quite dissimilar. Bernard Malamed said” If a Jews ever forgets who he is, his gentile neighbor will remind him” His experiences and mine seem to be similar and probably less so for you.
Our mission is Isolation, so we can create the most ideal society and thus act like a light house attracting others. That way they come to us and we not to them. That is the meaning of a light to the nations. There must be a unique separate Jewish society where Jews can demonstrate in practical applications How Hashem want the world to behave and interact. Only in a sovereign Jewish State can that be accomplished.
Being in the majority for Jews is a unique experience we haven’t had in well over 2000 years. It’s going to take a long time for us to reach our ultimate destination and purpose as Jews the chosen people of Hashem.
While we should not purposefully antagonize non Jews we shouldn’t take any crap from them either. Gentiles respect power especially Jewish Power and are scared of Jews with guns. That gets respect if not love. I’ll settle for respect.
@ M Devolin:
A big HAPPY BIRTHDAY!
May you live in good health for the next 60 years Mr D
@ yamit82:
Since you claim that you think it is Jewish women and Jewish mothers who are the secret to longevity of the Jewish people then listen up bro.
I agree with you that I could care less if someone wants to hate me just because I am Jewish but that doesn’t mean I go around saying and doing things that would give them any credence to their false opinions of Jews.
Perhaps here in the diaspora we run into this more frequently. Example. I knew a Rabbi who would deliberately go around trying to get a rise out of people. This in my opinion is wrong intent and motive. Just be yourself. There are many people who are disgruntled with what they have been taught and unconsciously are looking for alternatives. If we come off as arrogant snobs acting like our crap don’t stink what kind of alternative is that?
They notice that we are different but expect to see some type of ‘sign’ that we are a holy just people. Just as a Jew seeks for a message from Hashem during the High Holidays….gentiles are also seeking to receive a message. This can and is manifested in us! We are a light unto the nations!
If I go into a grocery store and smile at the cashier and open the door for an elderly person – they notice! But if I snub them and behave in an arrogant manner they notice that too!
M Devolin Said:
Jews who did no harm and trusted their polite and courteous gentile friends, neighbors and governments wound up in Auschwitz.
Doesn’t mean Jews should run through the streets of their hometowns and cities inciting and offending their gentile citizenry. It also does not follow that good manners and polite civilized interaction will do much to ingratiate Jews in the eyes of their gentile neighbors. The concept of Trust but Verify” is of Jewish origin.
The Jewish pathological need to be liked and accepted by non Jews is the great sin and and primary cause of mass assimilation and dysfunctional lack of Jewish unity even on core Jewish survival issues.
As Jew and a Man I don’t care or need to be liked but I do demand respect. If you do not respect my beliefs (Judaism) you won’t respect me as a man. If you don’t respect my ethics and integrity you won’t respect me as a man.
Too often politeness and civility are masks hiding true feelings. I prefer my Jew haters to be cruder and say what they feel and mean up front with no camouflage.
How can Jews have interfaith dialogue with those who still believe we murdered their deity and are damned to burn in the “Lake of Fire” and they do, every one of them even though they won’t tell that to a Jew to his face. Jews should avoid all interfaith artificial frameworks as they are just a means to browbeat the Jews into accepting the majority position.
Jewish prayer recited from the traditional Passover Haggada:
While many may accept Jews as individuals they hate what Jews believe and have for the past 19 centuries tried to eradicate and replace Jewish beliefs with their own. Since many Jews still do not want to let go of their Judaism and Jewish identification voluntarily essentially frustrating their enormous financial investment at proselytizing, they will always revert to their primal origins.
Conclusion will be: if you want to destroy Judaism the only sure way is to destroy the Jewish people. Today polite christians use not so polite Muslims to do their dirty work for them.
It has nothing to do with hating the world. In the complexity of human interaction individuals may be judged as individual and nations collectively.
And I would kiss the ground he walks on.
As for being “mentally ready for it,” this elderly Jew I mention could take on anyone, verbally or physically. You make him sound like a weakling. He is the exact opposite. Perhaps you misinterpret also what I meant when I said he is “one tough Jew.” He is a real Jew. He is a Yamit.
“…should not and actually do not take part in interfaith dialog” Anyone who knows me here knows that the last thing I would advocate is “interfaith dialogue.” I don’t know where you came up with that. In my world, being “friendly” does not mean “interfaith dialogue.”
Roslyn Pine, my grandmother on my mother’s side was a Pine.
@ Roslyn Pine:Welcome to Isrtapundit.
@ Ted Belman:
An excellent article. It articulates beautifully what should be obvious to anyone using their critical faculties.
M. Devolin is absolutely right in this: “If you hate the world, the world will hate you right back.” King Solomon said so: As in water, face reflects face, so the heart of man to man [Proverbs 27,19]. But he goes a bit too far in saying: “Not expecting to be “liked” is, in essence, hating the world around you.” It is not hating, but being fearsome – or at least wary; and we Jews have very good reason for this. It may be that the old man described does despise all gentiles, but this man and many like him, should not and actually do not take part in interfaith dialog. This is a particular sort of activity, for those who are mentally ready for it – very rewarding. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sogpp-2v9qI.
“You remember in the Torah where Abraham was arguing with G-d to save the righteous of Sodom and Gomorrah.
“Why do you think the argument and the pleading by Abraham stopped at 10? I have a long answer but not now, think about it.”
An amazing illustration, Yamit. This astounds me. Thank you.
I wrote another comment on this, but it disappeared.
Can’t say it any better than that, Yamit. Amazing illustration. But I didn’t mean that you should be nice to those who say “please” when they’re asking you to stand against the wall. I’m referring to those who are good enough to show you support, not to hate them or disbelieve them simply because they’re of the goyim. But I cannot put myself in your shoes, Yamit. Perhaps mine is wishful thinking. And I know you are appreciative, Yamit. I know from experience. I have no better friends than my Jewish friends. And maybe I’m not being realistic (probably because I cannot see through Jewish eyes). Also, I am used to Jewish friends showing me great respect; Jewish friends who know me and trust me. As you point out, how can any Jew trust a Gentile until the Gentile proves himself to be a true friend? This question I cannot answer. Too bad so few gentiles (even Noachides) don’t feel compelled to prove themselves as loyal to the Jewish people. Most of them are more concerned (I know I’ve said this before) with how much Jewish halacha they can observe before the Rabbi tells them no further. I never can fit into Noachide discussion pages because this matter always pops up and I lose my temper with them. I’ve asked on Noachide pages for them to come out and support the JDL and nobody show up. And these are Gentiles who are obeying the 7 Laws and avoiding idolatry! So I see what you are saying, Yamit. I’m sorry some things never change.
Mr. Ross, I used to have a Jamaican friend when I boxed. He used to call me “RRRRough white boy.” So many memories…
Thank you, Mr. Ross.
M Devolin Said:
Looks like I got here late:
A very Happy Birthday to you and best wishes to your family,
It’s good to have you back and I especially look forward to those great sayings of yours, many of which I think your Dad gave you.
By the way, even with this birthday, I am still a good bit older than you 😛
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ra1Y6K7nSs
M Devolin Said:
So they will kill us courteously??? I judge people only by their deeds and the record speaks for itself. There have been throughout our history individuals for one reason or another who have befriended and aided Jews in time of need. That’s my definition of friendship. Aid in Times of dire need.
On a scale of 1-10 the Jews can count on less than 1- in the real friendship dept.
We Jews are not unappreciative of real gentile friends and we honor them but there are so few, so few.
You remember in the Torah where Abraham was arguing with G-d to save the righteous of Sodom and Gomorrah.
Why do you think the argument and the pleading by Abraham stopped at 10? I have a long answer but not now, think about it.
@ honeybee:
Me rompiste el corazón miel de abeja.
Te quiero muchísimo
Esta mariposa nunca te dejará
Todavía estoy aquí y no te he abandonado abejita mi pequeña abeja
Pero si usted elige otro esta mariposa volará
Su elección des-rompe mi corazón
Lo que será
M Devolin Said:
Ud. son my Caballero mas major !!!!!!!!!!
Thanks, Dove.
Thanks, honeybee.
“Historically, the best public relations for the Jews happens when we conquer our enemies.”
Of course, Yamit. I believe the same. Diplomacy is always easier to practice from a position of strength. I was commenting within the context put forth by the author, which was “Jews among the nations”. Of course, I wish Israel to conquer her enemies, since victory over one’s enemies provides the most efficacious form of “diplomacy.” “In a calm sea every man is a pilot.” -John Ray, 1628-1705 But also, after the enemy is conquered it is not good advice, as I wrote above, to start the day by hating the world. Not for Jews and not for Gentiles both. Hate your enemies, fine. I have no problem with that. But don’t hate those who are good enough and refined enough to be courteous.
M Devolin Said:
A traditional Mexican Birthday Greeting for you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zKCzMD3eYc
http://www.israpundit.com/archives/23747
Author: Joy
Comment:
My sentiment exactly!!!!
Note: In the over 8 years i have been posting comments on Israpundit the women are the most conceice and articulate in stating the case of Israel and Zonism. They are generally the most militant in their advocacy for Israel and the Jewish People.
What is the secret of the longevity of the Jewish people?
I say Jewish women and Jewish mothers.
@ M Devolin:
H*A*P*P*Y* B*I*R*T*H*D*A*Y* D*E*V*
I agree wholeheartedly with what you say about Jews. Now more than ever! Bringing more hatred upon ourselves is not wise and not fair or just to our fellow Jews. We need to come together as a people. United we are strong! We can’t let them win by dividing and conquering us.
Thank you, phoenix. I appreciate your kind words very much. I plan on prevailing. “HE teaches my hands to war and my fingers to fight.”
Dear Michael,
My heartfelt wishes for a very HAPPY BIRTHDAY.
being only one year your senior, I cannot offer any words of wisdom, except to wish you to always be ready to rise and meet whatever challenge is thrown in your way and to prevail!
“The Jew among nations cannot expect to be liked…”
This statement is discomfiting to me. Maybe because I’m not a Jew. In my opinion, anyone who sets out in the morning not expecting to be “liked” is already behaving contrarily. To be “liked” one must first behave in a likeable manner. I turn 60 today, and one thing I have learned is that if you hate the world, the world will hate you right back. Not expecting to be “liked” is, in essence, hating the world around you. I’m not saying the “Jew among the nations” should go out and buy a cheeseburger, but also he cannot hate the world around him simply because it is not downtown Tel Aviv. Suttapitaka wrote: “Hatreds never cease by hatred; they cease by non-hatred; this is the primeval law.” There is an elderly Orthodox Jew who sometimes comes out for JDL activities. He travels on the subway in Toronto with his skullcap on. He is not afraid of anyone. He is one tough Jew. But I suspect he despises me because I’m a goy. This doesn’t bother me. I can endure it. But were I just any gentile along the subway route, I would hate him right back. Such hatred is not antisemitism, in my opinion. It is only a human reaction to another’s human hatred. I have tried so very hard to befriend this man, but to no avail. He tolerates my friendliness, but I’m certain he still despises me. He is originally from Poland, I think. His hatred reminds me of Rav Kahane’s words, “Nothing good came out of Auschwitz.” He cannot help but despise me. And I understand that. But to suggest here that Jews among the nations should not expect to be liked? Every Jew among the nations should hate the world around them simply because that world is not Jewish? G-D created good gentiles too. I believe I am one of them. I do not defend the Jewish people because of something written in the Torah that promises I will be blessed for such good deeds. That’s horseshit (forgive me, Yamit). I have not received any blessing. I think the Jew who wrote that did so with survival in mind. “Wisdom is a defense also.” Time still enters the room without knocking, as the poet once wrote, and I am still poor and struggle every week to pay my bills. I defend the Jewish people because they are a just people and because I fear HaShem and believe the Jews are HIS chosen people. But even HIS chosen people “among the nations” must be friendly. “He who has friends must be friendly.” I do not think it is wise to advise Jews among the nations that they should not expect to be liked. They should expect to be liked, providing they behave in a likeable manner. Jews have a reputation for being extremely courteous. They should alter such a good reputation? OK, they can’t be expected to be liked if they’re living in, for example, Yemen or Jordan or Syria. But if they’re living in Canada or the USA, I think they should expect to be liked for behaving in a likeable manner, just like anyone else. I expect the same for my likeable behaviour. Anyone, in my opinion, who doesn’t like me for being friendly is not worthy of me. Same goes for the Jew among the nations. What is the saying? “Be nice!”
Zionism is not racism. Zionism is Jewish. Nothing and no-one else. This fact alone is what infuriates the non-Jewish world. But so what? The world has always been infuriated with the exclusivity of the Jewish people, and especially since the advent of Christianity. In my opinion, the “Zionism is racism” charge is no different than the blood libel or the canard that Jews poisoned the wells of Europe. “If anyone says, ‘This is new.’ It has been of ancient times.” -Ecclesiastes
@ Ted Belman:
When people claim to me that “Zionism is Racism” I will disagree but then also add “so what if it is”- Jihad is genocide. Similarly, for the same shock value, we should now declare the end of the specious goal (charade?) of the two-state solution and cease handcuffing ourselves from doing everything we need to start doing. Just like most race-baiters don’t know how to react when you don’t take the defensive and, instead, say so what if Zionism is racism the world may call it unexceptable but since the burden has also been on Israel to make it work let them bash their heads against each other to explain why (what was wrong with Barak and Olmerts deal- thankfully rejected). In the meanwhile, as far as Israel is concerned the charade would be more officially over. The idea that we can’t or shouldn’t build because the TTS is still the ostensible goal only handcuffs us from doing what we need to do and throw off the pretense of a negotiated settlement to achieve the only real security and that is to build up and eventually annex the territories. To those who say settlers are an obstacle to peace, throw back in their face the fact that the settlers are really our true shomreem
It did not take long on popping…
The extreme unJews “vat ist da alternatibahhh”? pre packaged dump on one and all, an idiotic sing song cover all.
Here is da halternatibahhh…
Get all of the Rabin-Peres, Beilin etc, Arafat degenerates imported by the above to infest Eretz Israel, into an aircraft and return the ghastly bestial entities to sender. They can then “negotiate” among themselves in Tunis, Libya, Yemen, the “un”, etc. And to keep them company also pack out Peres, Zoabi, Livni, Gal On, Beilin, Openheimer, Amirah Hass, Gideon Levi, A B Y, and if he feels lonely, also Netanyahu. The supreme courtiers may also consider the option.
I agree with every word.