The Vatican’s Secretary of State made a dramatic revelation ahead of Pope Francis’s visit to Israel next Sunday and Monday, declaring that the pope will talk about the “Palestinian people’s right to have a homeland, sovereign and independent.”
Cardinal Pietro Parolin holds a role in the Vatican City State, located in the Italian capital of Rome, equivalent to that of a prime minister. Speaking to Vatican television on Thursday, he said “we know that the pope is going to a particularly suffering land,” reports AFP.
“I really hope that the fruit will be to help politicians and all people of good will take courageous decisions on the path to peace,” Parolin stated.
When asked what the pope particularly intends to talk about during the visit, Parolin revealed he would talk about “on the one hand, Israel’s right to exist in peace and security within internationally recognized boundaries.”
On the other side, the pope would talk about “the Palestinian people’s right to have a homeland, sovereign and independent, the right to move around freely, the right to live in dignity,” according to Parolin.
In fact, the Vatican recognized the “State of Palestine” in 2012 amid the United Nations (UN) vote to confer “Palestine” non-member observer state status, a status until then only held by the Vatican.
Despite the pope’s insistence that his visit is “religious not political,” his decision to begin his trip from Jordan directly by helicopter with a stop in Palestinian Authority (PA) controlled Bethlehem has been greeted by Arab sources as a move to “recognize Palestine” and help “end the occupation.”
Rabbi Sergio Bergman, a member of the Argentinian parliament and close friend of Pope Francis, reported in February that the pope intends to define himself as the “Che Guevera of the Palestinians” and support their “struggle and rights” during his visit.
It has been noted that the pope has been remarkably tight-lipped over the violent persecution of Christians in Bethlehem, instead choosing to condemn alleged Jewish “price tag” vandalism.
“Holy Father” asked to pressure Israel to let priests enter without IDF permission
On Thursday it was announced that 650 Christians from Gaza would be allowed to leave the Islamist-ruled enclave to travel to Judea and Samaria for the pope’s visit.
However, 20 priests from the Latin Patriarchate of Jerusalem, which presides over Arab Catholic communities in Judea and Samaria, wrote the pope a letter on Thursday, complaining that they had not been allowed to enter Jerusalem without IDF permission.
“According to the State of Israel, the illegal occupier, we do not have the right to travel to Jerusalem without permission from the Israeli army,” the Arab priests said in the letter.
In the letter, the priests claimed the Vatican had given them passes to enter Jerusalem which Israel hasn’t stamped with visas. The IDF monitors passage over the 1949 Armistice lines.
“Jerusalem is becoming increasingly closed off to Christians from the West Bank,” the letter added, calling for the pope to pressure Israel to submit on controlling passage on its own borders.
The letter concluded “can the Holy Father be in the Holy Land without saying anything about the reality of injustice against an entire people held prisoner on its own land?”
Controversy, both religious and political
Another point of contention about the pope’s visit is the status of the David’s Tomb Compound in Jerusalem. While numerous government officials – including Foreign Minister Avigdor Liberman and Israel’s Sephardic Chief Rabbi – have denied control of the holy site will be transferred to the Vatican, reports have revealed a plan to indirectly transfer the site.
Rabbi Avraham Goldstein, the Rosh Yeshiva (dean) of the Diaspora Yeshiva located in the Compound, revealed what he said were much more underhand plans than a straightforward hand-over.
“According to the information we have…the state will be allowing the Church to conduct Mass on the upper floor; then according to Jewish law (halakha) Jews will not be able to pray downstairs (either), since on the upper floor there will be idol worship,” the rabbi said.
Jewish law forbids benefiting from anything – including a structure or shelter – used for idol-worship. Catholic effigies and other rituals fall under the Jewish legal definition of idol worship, meaning that the establishment of a permanent Catholic place of prayer in the Compound would effectively prevent Jews from conducting their own services in the entire building.
A Catholic official confirmed the Vatican’s intentions to put those very plans into effect, telling the Salt Lake Tribune on Tuesday that the Vatican wants “to hold two hours of [Christian] prayer every day in the early morning before visitors start to visit it.”
I am a web designer.
So, if a web designer wanted to provoke anti-semitism, such a web designer would be posting that letter all over the web.
The fact is that I only linked to it here, to check its veracity. NOWHERE ELSE. So you are out of order.
Everyone here has attacked me, but no one has outright denied it.
Deal with the letter and stop accusing me with your lies.
Anti-semites would not be posting the link on Israpundit to check its veracity.
Wake up!
When I want to link something, I can put it all over the web very fast. I only linked to it here to check its veracity.
Instead of helping me with exposing what is a possible forgery, – a forgery that I would expose on websites, you have done everything but deny it.
Mondoweiss has posted questionable material for years. It would be nice to catch them on this. That letter was ugly, almost Der Sturmer quality of hatred.
Yet, you refuse to help me expose it.
You are paranoid. I have posted that link no where but here.
But instead of exposting it; you shoot the messenger.
You are the bigot, not me.
Bear Klein Said:
Epiphany?
This has them all shook up as well as The Joooz.
Vatican concerned by Israel’s lack of control over hate crimes
Fear of a bunch of Jewish kids with chutzpa and spay cans????
If it wasn’t the Jews it would not warrant a mention on page 18, and certainly not on national news reports.
@ CuriousAmerican:
You know actually your claim of NOT baiting is not even honest! It is a letter trying to provoke Jew hatred and you are basically circulating it.
Maybe I was wrong when I defended you on Israpundit against claims others had made? So you are circulating a letter that will provoke antisemitism under the claim that you are shocked by the letter.
The Jewish State of Israel invited the Pope to visit. You do not in truth need to know more than that! Peres is giving him a state visit!
Bear Klein Said:
Such a bright Bear !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@ CuriousAmerican: Persistent and relentless baiting! This is my deductive logic after observing your postings over time!
You did not answer my question to you about the puported Roman hoax on the Jews?
@ yamit82:
Please take a number… (Bli lidhoff… 😉 )
I too am awaiting for his answer as to “his services”
🙂
@ yamit82:
I bring you their heads on a platter: http://youtu.be/8ddIVujWQro
honeybee Said:
I’m yours… Waiting for dweller to make my day complete when he defends CA. 😉
@ CuriousAmerican:
I did not. Speaking with forked tongue again CA?
Remember Bilam… That’s what’s happening to you christians today and it’s going to get a whole lot worse, in fact much worse, C’est la guerre (Mida K’neged Mida)
Bernard Ross understands:
A Special Jewish prayer for You CA and the Pope:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-irAG3q8TGU
@ CuriousAmerican:
“Embarrassing” to WHOM, american?
Furthermore, SO WHAT?
You scum bag…
Take that little observation of yours and shove it DEEP where the sun don’t shine
And why would that be so?
Why not let rabbid antisemites bark till they’re blue in the face?
Why pay attention to what they say?
YOU otoh, should be kept as target practice on the forum. You make it real for all of us what an antisemite in disguise is, how he operates and what should be the proper response.
So, thank you american for providing your butt to be kicked .
😉
CuriousAmerican Said:
I am surprised that you find time to obsess with posters when daily Christians are head chopped, throat slitted,hanged, honor killed, suicide bombed, kidnapped into slavery, raped by muslim gangs in europe, plane hijacked, etc etc
and yet you find time to berate the Nobel prize winners, those who daily make advances in science, tech and meds, while tending to the wounds of their enemies children.
I wonder what the god you worship think about your behavior? every day you lie another christian dies, is raped,……I suggest you change your MO and stop killing christians, even your god may be upset with you. It is possible that you are as transparent to your god as you are to me.
CuriousAmerican Said:
a lie,
CuriousAmerican Said:
your reptitve behavior and that of your supersessionist church is millenially ugly and still going. Stop focusing on the Jews with your obsessions, christians are dying because of you and your churches libels, they are dying at the hands of those they fund to kill Jews. you are killing them in your jew obsession. Every time you lie, a christian dies for you.
@ Bear Klein:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DK_cYPAtQ-U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uN9ATGqLNo8
CuriousAmerican Said:
everything from your mouth is deception. you always come to bait the Jews, and unlike your claim of defending Jews on other sites I would not be surprised if you altered quotes here and posted them on other sites. I feel confident that you lied about defending Israel on other sites as you never produced evidence of that fake claim. The only thing to be shocked about is the continuing libels and swindles of you and your church against the Jewish people and Israel. I do not care about posters when I see your churches spreading lies about Israel and funding jew killers. You would ike us to be concerned about you and your pals but you must be concerned about your swindling and libels and that of your church. Mondoweiss is a propagator of lies and libels which is not the same as being anti Israel. It is an insult to bring such posters here from the filth who always libels jews. Every libel you spread ends with a christian slaughtered and decapitated by muslims. You are the cause of christian slaughter because you keep inciting against the Jews. The same is true of your church, it is the direct cause of christian slaughter by engaging in filthy deception.. You are not good at covering up your intentions, they are quite transparent, you are a Jew baiter coming here to bait jews.
No, but I am used to your paranoia. Were I trying to instigate, I would not be asking Israpundit posters if they knew anything about this.
The fact is: Even though Mondoweiss is anti-Israel, it has a large following. Their photo of the purported letter will be passed around.
If the letter is NOT refuted immediately, the letter could be embarrassing.
THIS IS NOT A THREAT. It is an observation.
If true, the letter will cause damage.
If false, the letter will cause more damage.
This is not a threat, but an observation.
The time to refute it is now.
I found the photograph of the letter so shocking that my gut feeling was that it was false; but since some of you are in Israel, you might know more about the source. Maybe you could expose the lie here, or on other sites, such as CiF.
As for instigating – baiting anyone – Yamit82 made a couple of noxious comments which I could address – were the object of my post to bait anyone.
Rather, I just want to know the source of that letter.
The letter is quite ugly. It really does not matter where the photo of the letter was posted on the internet. It has been posted, and will circulate.
So it should be addressed (observation)
Bear Klein Said:
Rumor my tuchus!!!!
SEE: Properties owned by the Church in Israel
All Stolen from Jews or those who stole them from Jews. How much Jewish blood was spilled in the thefts?//
Have they murdered and profited as well?
CuriousAmerican Said:
Don’t mess with Yamit82 !!!!!!!!!!! He’s mine !!!!!!! We’re goin Honky-Tonkin tonight and I want him at his best !!!!!!!!!
@ rfelsted:
When TX and I first married he thought my Dad didn’t like cause he yelled at him. Oh, I said he loves you, watch Dad, the more he dislikes some one the courtlier he is to them. Remember the movie “The God Father”, take a lesson.
@ CuriousAmerican: What do you think about the following belief some have?
@ yamit82:
Lighten up Sugar, here’s our two-step for tonight, Darlin, put on you boots [no spurs] and meet at the Stetson Paradise.
http://youtu.be/tGzvuAznGK8
@ mar55:
Well according to him, he happens to be some kind of a computer geek or something, so in other words, this would be a self inflicted wound…. 🙂
But we can cure that. Can’t we?
@ the phoenix:
There is a saying among computer programmers:
Garbage in- garbage out.
Whomever did program Curio did the same thing:
Crap in – crap out.
@ Bear Klein:
Hi bear!
🙂
@ CuriousAmerican:
@ CuriousAmerican:
It was only because yamit has answered your post that I became aware of your recent visit on board…
Just like ALL your comments on this forum are beyond predictable… well so are mine, when addressed to you.
So you must be gloating now, that you are holding that little letter of yours…
I would recommend to use instead of Charmaine, or better yet, if already in that neighbourhood… Just shove it!
The fact that you ARE on mondoweiss pretty accurately paints you to be the antisemite that you are. As you have shown with practically EVERY POST of yours.
Well, here you THINK you may have hit gold. (the american is now gleefully rubbing his hands). What an antisemite’s wet dream!
If it’s true = damage, if false = more damage….
It doesn’t get any better than that. Does it?
I don’t have yamit’s Talmudic knowledge to counter your comment.
I WILL counter it though, by once again, pointing to the OBVIOUS .
As to WHO MADE THIS COMMENT.
And in as far as the letter proper:
I just hate waste, and believe recycling to be a good thing to do.
I would CONVERT all churches and related shhhhhstuff to museums or music halls. You know, an architectural REPLACEMENT (kinda’ like a supersessionism of sort… You are familiar with that aren’t you?)
Why not have the museum of ABCDEFG (take your pick… ) in the say
EX- church of the beatitudes or [so called] “holy” sepulcher….
You get the drift, american..
@ Bear Klein:
They say he will travel in an open unprotected Pope-mobile. Hmmmm
@ mar55:
This says it well. https://www.israpundit.org/archives/63596715/comment-page-1#comment-63356000129653
@ Bear Klein: Contrary to the article (and per the Rabbi traveling with the Pope) the Pope will NOT be making political statements during his trip to the area.
Let us see what happens. Perhaps the rumors were spread by Palestinians or their buddies that the Pope would make pro Palestinians statements.
Anyway we will find out what happens.
@ CuriousAmerican: I do believe you are trying to instigate here again.
There are surely one or two people (certainly one anyway) who will take your bait. You are taking crap from an Israeli hate site and asking for people to put their foot in mouth.
CuriousAmerican Said:
First of all I really do not believe there ever was such a historical character as depicted in the christian narrative.
2ndly If the Jews did kill your god, he couldn’t have been god. How can you kill god?
3rdly Until christians remove the blood libels in the NT against the Jews including those verses attributing the death of yeshu on the Jews I accept the charge and like Hilary Rotten Clinton said: “What difference does it make?”
Based on the charge sheet against him that clearly admitts to his guilt of all charges, he should have been executed. I prefer stoning and strangulation even beheading as a preferred method. Jews don’t approve of Pagan crucifixions, not a Jewish way of dispatching arch criminals and deviants. In all truth CA, I don’t give a damn what you christians say or think about us. Others on this sight do but here I speak for only myself.
Israel must be defined as the Jewish State. This means only Jews should be entitled to citizenship here. Others who wish to live here and obey our laws as foreign residents with full human rights should be welcome. Those who challenge our sovereignty should not..
There is only one state in the Middle East which has no self respect nor appreciation of its own identity. Israel has been devoting so much time to curry favor with the international community that it has crossed all red lines for her own self interest.
Those nasty young zealots are attempting to do what the government of Israel should be doing albeit in a more acceptable and diplomatic way.
A couple of years ago I said that you christians have crossed all our red lines and that there will be a counter reaction where little by little the vast majority of Jews here in Israel will begin to think more like me. When that day arrives there will no longer be either Muslims or christians in the land of Israel.
It seems you are always threatening us if we don’t concede to your demands of us???
You christians should thank us every day we killed him otherwise there would not be christianity today. 🙂
So it will cause damage. You christian Jew lovers won’t like us anymore?? I’m all broken up over that. 😛
@ CuriousAmerican:
All Jewish press reports a poster not it’s content except to say it was anti the Popes visit. The one posted on Monweiss and other sites I linked to above are from a single source a christian Arab I suppose living in E. Jerusalem
It might be a real copy and rendition then again it might not. It could be an Arab plant or even a Shabak one and yet after reading the wording of the purorted poster I can’t find anything to refute it’s content and it’s demands and claims vis a vis Jewish Law.
Just for clarification: practicing any religion that is not Judaism constitutes “foreign worship” for Jews. The question here is limited to defining permissible and forbidden practices for non-Jews. The ramifications include whether a Jew may contribute monetarily, benefit from, or possibly even encourage those practices particularly and especially in THE LAND OF ISRAEL!
“In Jewish law, the idea of the Trinity falls under the catchall term of “shittuf” – worshiping G-d along with some other being.
Shittuf is prohibited for Jews. This means that a Jew would be prohibited to acknowledge the christian savior as part of the G-d-head, or to participate in christian worship, even at the cost of his or her life.
There is a dispute among the posekim as to whether shittuf is permitted to non-Jews. (This has ramifications, for example, concerning the laws of yayin nesech, doing business with them on their holidays, etc.). The Rambam (Laws of Idolatry 9:4) states that Christians are considered idolaters under Jewish law – i.e., according to him, shittuf is not a Jewishly acceptable belief for non-Jews either.”
“In more modern times, various gedolei hador have ruled that christianity is avodah zarah. In 1964, Rav Soleveichik zt”l ruled that, despite Vatican II, it was still forbidden to teach Torah to christians. He further forbade teaching them how to learn Torah or even to teach them lashon hakodesh. As it is prohibited to teach idolators Torah, This can only mean that he considered them ovdei avodah zara: there is not other reasonable explanation.
Rav Moshe Feinstein zt”l ruled at least twice that christians were idolators: he ruled that if one is in the middle of a shiur and a christian walks in, even though it is forbidden to teach them Torah, it is not neccessary to interrupt the shiur. As above, the only reason it would be forbidden to teach christians Torah would be if they were idolators; he also wrote a teshuva to a shailah whether it was permitted to teach a class to a group of reform children (since some of them would obviously be gentiles) that it was permitted because since those children attended a reform “temple” it was unlikely that they were idolators and that the need to teach Jewish children the Emet (truth) outweighed the (in this case) unlikely violation of the prohibition against teaching idolators. I can’t imagine that Reb Moshe was concerned about an Indianapolis “temple” being overrun by, say, buddhist or hindu children. Clearly he considered christians to be ovdei avodah zara.”
christian presence in the Land of Israel is a major violation of Jewish law and should never be permitted if we have the power to prevent them.
Muslims should also be removed not so much on theological grounds but because they are our enemy.
It is commonly accepted that Islam is not Avodah Zarah (idolatry) since Islam has a clear monotheistic theology with a belief in Allah that parallels our view of “kail” or Hashem. It is even permissible for Jews to enter and pray (Jewish prayer) in a mosque.
Honeybee said,
“Hold your friends close and your enemies closer.”
Good advice, HB!@ honeybee:
@ honeybee:
There is a letter on the internet which is very damning.
It is posted by Mondoweiss
http://mondoweiss.net/2014/05/incendiary-jerusalem-franciss.html
I know Mondoweiss is anti-Israel, but what I want is a denial or confirmation of this letter.
Mondoweiss claims it is a flyer posting by Jewish groups protesting the Pope’s visit.
(CLICK HERE) to see the full-sized copy of the letter.
The letter makes some interesting claims:
they claim
That is a frightening quote.
In it, SUPPOSEDLY, Jews admit the Elders of Zion killed Jesus.
I think that letter is a forgery, but since Yamit82 seems to have said very similar, I cannot rule it out.
Since Modern Jews deny that the Elders of Zion exists and deny any culpability for the death of Jesus, this is a very suspect letter.
They also recommend destroying all churches and monasteries.
Is this letter a forgery; because Mondoweiss has put it out on the net.
If it is true – it will cause damage.
If it is false – it will cause more damage.
Even if the Elders of Zion is a reference only to the Sanhedrin of that day, there is still the problem of their “demand to kill”: Jesus.
That is a very ugly letter – to all except possibly Yamit82 – but is the letter even valid?
Perhaps the Pope would be better off discussing the horrific plight of Christians in muslim dominated countries rather than pushing for the creation of another islamic terror state.
rfelsted Said:
Hold your friends close and your enemies closer.
@ yamit82:
Israelis should have the right to protest. This pope said his visit is of religious nature and not political. Then why is he talking about the need of the fakestenians to have their own homeland with their own sovereign and independent government? Either he is or he is not political. He has made a political statement.
Have the government of Israel forgotten how we were spelled from Spain and later from so many other countries? The Inquisition?
Israeli citizens should have the right to demand whatever they want from the christians who through the ages have been responsible for so much suffering of our Jewish brothers. To the police “HANDS OFF OUR YOUTH” AND ALSO OUR CITIZENS.
A couple of months ago the pope had lunch at the vatican with Orthodox Jews. Pictures were taken and I saw it as propaganda. Wondering then what was behind this Kosher lunch. Now we have the answer. In all probability he wants something from Israel without giving it a second though as to return the religious Jewish artifacts sitting in the vaults of the vatican. Some chutzpa to even visit Israel. If he wants to redistribute the wealth he ought to star taking inventory of the riches accumulated during the crusades and the oppression of the poor in the countries where the official religion was catholic.
And why should Israel give a fig what the Vatican says or advocates? Or for that matter the US, Kerry, Obama, or the UE? As a matter of fact, why should Israel give heed to diaspora Jews with rabid leftist leanings and internalized self-hatred? The BDS movement? J Street? Or the likes of Tzipi Livni and other GOI reality-challenged Jew-haters and Pali lovers?
We’re in a new age. Aligning with China, India, and other emerging superpowers will mean that Israel can thumb her nose at the US. Israel’s incredible technological and scientific leadership will pave the way for a strong independent station on the world stage.
Salomon Benzimra Said:
For no damn good reason !!!!!!!!!!
Israeli Citizens Vandalize and Call For Destruction of Churches Ahead of Pope’s Visit
Poster warning chrisitans to get out of Israel or else
Signed: “THE NATION OF ISRAEL”
Judge Overrules Police, Allows Anti-Pope Protests
Jerusalem judge refuses to remand youths who put up posters calling on ‘impure’ pope to get out of Israel.
Israel restricts more extremist Jews ahead of pope visit
Police to issue 10 additional restraining orders to right-wing activists, bringing total to 15
Papal Insensitivity and Jewish Self-Inferiority
@ Bear Klein:
The ones whose words matter (GOI) did not, do not and will not.
The ones that are constantly lamenting about this and other similar abominations, are constantly talking and are (most of the time) in ‘full agreement’ as to what should be done…..
Bear Klein Said:
Why do you assume they don’t know this already and really don’t care. It’s not that they are pro Palis they are anti-Israel.
“Why was the Catholic Church so slow to recognize the state of Israel?”
“There is no official Vatican response to this question.
The Catholic Catechism Article 63 explains:
“So the Catholic Church is saying that Israel includes BOTH Christianity (New Israel), and it’s older brother in the faith of Abraham (Jewish people yet to accept Christ). That is why we can say there is still something special and relevant about Judaism, our older brother in the faith.”
Someone should point out to the Pope that the Palestinians are about a 70 -80% majority in Jordan but just like the Vatican it is ruled by a Monarch. So the Palestinians have a country. The Jews have a country. He should stick to dealing with the pedophile Priests before he sticks his nose in our affairs.
Brits, the Mandate and Missionaries: Can They be Forgiven?
|
Sounds like this is a job for the Israeli “Paladin” (aka-PRICE TAG)
Israel: What do Catholics believe about the Jewish people?
Pope Pius X said to Herzl:
“We cannot prevent the Jews from going to Jerusalem, but we could never sanction it. The Jews have not recognized our Lord; therefore we cannot recognize the Jewish people. If you come to Palestine and settle your people there, we will have churches and priests ready to baptize all of you,” “Pope Pius X told Herzl”
The concept of Zionism was is contrary to traditional Catholic doctrine, which held that the Jews were destined to wander the Earth for their involvement in the death of Jesus. Diplomatically, the main concerns of the Church related to sovereignty over Catholic holy sites in Israel, including the status of Jerusalem, which had been divided between Israel and Jordan following the 1948 War of Independence. The Church favors an international solution to the Jerusalem issue.
Approval of the reforms known as Vatican II in 1965, however, brought profound changes to the relationship between Catholics and Jews. Most important was the declaration of Nostra Aetate, which changed the Church’s position on deicide, no longer blaming Jews for the death of Jesus. But despite the theological shift, the Vatican still did not change its position on Israel. ““The Vatican policy under the last two Popes, John Paul II and Benedict XVI, has been very simple: theological dialogue with the Jews and political sovereignty for the Palestinian Arabs.
Both popes visited Auschwitz and the synagogues, they both left a paper in the Wailing Wall, all important events, but they have also been pioneers in the Palestinian project, which is essentially a Trojan horse to dismantle the Jewish State,” Giulio Meotti, a Italian journalist and author of The New Shoah
The borders of Israel have already been recognized internationally in the 1920s. Why should this issue be revisited again?
As to the “Palestinian people’s rights…” I wish the Vatican and everyone else would realize the sheer incompatibility of this proposition with the first one.
But again, if the Israeli Government doesn’t make these things clear, the fantasy world will be given credence.