By TIMES OF ISRAEL STAFF and AP
The US has recently warned Israel that an Israeli strike on Iran will likely cause Egypt and Jordan to annul their peace agreements with Israel and sever ties, according to a senior Israeli official quoted by the Hebrew daily Yedioth Ahronoth on Thursday.
“These days, Arab leaders don’t rule their people. Rather, the street rules its leaders,” the official was quoted as saying. “An Israeli strike is exactly what the Iranians need: the entire Arab and Muslim street will go out to demonstrate.”
The Israeli official reportedly linked between the anticipated Arab reaction to an Israeli strike and the current rage-fueled wave of anti-Western protests in the wake of the publication of a trailer for a new film, “Innocence of Muslims,” that denigrates Islam’s Prophet Muhammad.
“What we’ve been seeing with the anti-Muhammad film is nothing but a preview for what’s going to happen if Israel attacks,” the official was quoted as saying.
The comments come after weeks of speculation about a possible Israeli strike on Iran’s nuclear facilities. Israel has argued that due to its security concerns and reluctance to “outsource” its security to another country — even the US — it cannot afford to let Iran reach a breakout point in its nuclear program, meaning the stage at which manufacturing an atomic weapon becomes merely a matter of time.
The US and Israel have recently become embroiled in a standoff after US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and President Barack Obama publicly said they would not set “red lines” for Iran’s nuclear program, beyond which military force would be deployed.
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has called for such measures as a means of calming Israeli apprehensions and, he says, of reducing the likelihood of conflict by making it clearer to Iran that the US is prepared to use force.
On Wednesday, a senior Israeli official warned Iran to stop its “direct and blunt threats” against Israel, telling a 155-nation nuclear conference that Israel was ready to defend itself against any nation that menaces its existence. Still, nuclear chief Shaul Chorev avoided any suggestion that Israel was contemplating a military strike on Iran’s nuclear facilities.
Alluding to Iranian statements questioning Israel’s right to exist, Chorev warned that Israel “does not remain indifferent in view of such direct and blunt threats.”
“Israel is competent to deter its enemies and to defend itself,” he told the meeting.
On Monday, Iran’s nuclear chief told the same IAEA conference in
Vienna that his country’s nuclear facilities could now survive enemy attack.
What If Israel’s ‘Peace Partners’ Actually Prefer War?
By: Louis Rene Beres
Published: September 21st, 2012
Read More
Israel Won’t Attack
By: Moshe Feiglin
“You chose disgrace instead of war; you got disgrace and war as well.” (Winston Churchill after the Munich Accords).
Somehow, the common question in Israel today is whether the prime minister has the right to decide to attack Iran. “He has the chutzpah to think that he can decide,” former Supreme Court justice Eliyahu Winograd more or less pontificated, capturing all of the major news outlets’ headlines.
There is only one person who has the right to decide on the Iran issue, and that is the prime minister. It makes no difference at all how he makes the decision, whether by consulting with ministers, advisers or the military top brass – or by plain intuition. The state exists to protect its citizens. Accordingly, the citizens vote for the person who will lead them. They deposit in his hands – in his hands only – that authority and responsibility.
Don’t worry, though. Israel will not attack Iran. For the past two years I have repeatedly written and warned about, and met with senior ministers, in an attempt to explain that the concept of a united international front against Iran is a strategic error. The greatest danger is not the nuclear bomb, but rather Iran’s declared intention to destroy Israel. If Israel doesn’t attack Iran, it reinforces the world’s impression that once again the Jew must pay for the right to live in this world. We are back to the 30s and Hitler’s vicious speeches. The sands in the hourglass of our right to exist are running out. It is no coincidence that Israel’s loss of legitimacy and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s declarations parallel each other.
The time to deal with the breach in the dam is when the crack is detected – not when the water surges through. Now, with the question mark over our right to exist hovering over our heads, it is only a matter of history presenting the opportunity for the next diabolical despot – Read More
@ LT COL HOWARD:
Intentions before capabilities.
My comment is in moderation. pls release it.
@ Donald freyman:
@ LT COL HOWARD:
Col Howard I have long been curious as to why Iran as opposed to Israel Russia, China, Pakistan, N. Korea, India, Iraq, Libya, Syria and Egypt either developed their nukes or programs in secret and Iran has pretty much been doing it in the open. Your opinion on this would be appreciated.
I have my own theories but they are just theories.
Egypt has long had an advanced nuclear program and have I think 2 small reactors. They may lack money but not Knowhow. Algeria likewise has an advance nuclear program. The Saudis can purchase whatever they want including a few Nukes from Pakistan which they financed the The Islamic Bomb.
Besides Iran it is only a matter of time, money and national ambition before some of these as yet non-nuclear nations go Nuclear. Besides nuclear programs All have advanced Chemical and biological warfare projects especially Egypt and Syria.
I have long maintained that Pakistan is a greater existential threat to Israel than is Iran. They already have about 100 nukes and are a borderline crazy Islamic failed nation state. I still maintain that Egypt is our most dangerous existential threat. They border Israel have the largest American equipped and trained military force in the ME. Egyptians Hate Israel more than any other Muslim nation including Iran (Crazy government as opposed to most Iranians but the Egyptian people really hate the Jews and Israel) Egypt has initiated or precipitated 5 wars since 48 against Israel. Iran till now ZERO.
It is also obvious that the massive arms purchased by the Saudis recently are meant to be used by Egypt against Israel. Israel has been sleeping since Camp David agreement re: Egypt and are not prepared for a conventional conflict either in manpower and training.. Israel needs to add at least three more divisions to the Southern command to compensate the new Egyptian threat but is should have been obvious to any novice that agreement with the Arabs are always temporary and the aging and sick Mubarak was on his way out one way or another in any event so why the unpreparedness even shock over the MB takeover of Egypt?
Re: Iran..I know a little bit of what Israels capabilities are and very few outsiders know what Israel is capable of especially the USA. Macy’s does not tell Gimbals all of her secrets so lets say America knows exactly what Israel wants them to know and no more.
The American build up in the Persian Gulf is not directed against Iran as much as it is directed against Israel. Israel could attack Iran in many ways including commando attacks from the sea and air after EMP attack. Israel could Use her Jericho rockets instead of the IAF. Cruise nuclear missiles from our Submarines. Use of dirty bombs on all known nuclear sites. Use of neutron bombs and artillery shells to repell and eliminate any resistance from Iranian military.
Israel has home made stealth capabilities making our missiles and aircraft radar undetectable.
Tactically it’s not Iran that is our problem but Uncle (Laban) Sam.
Without Syria I expect Hezbollah to remain passive.
LT COL HOWARD Said:
I am also concerned that the US has been arming and aiding egypt to the tune of 3 billion per year,they also arm and train Lebanon and the PA. Perhaps there are elements in the US govt that feed Egypt Israeli intelligence. I remember that Sadam was under the impression of US neutrality and encouragement in his war against Kuwait. Arms and oil; war brings profit to both. In your qualified experiences did you come across the “military industrial complex” warned of by “Ike”? Are you familiar with the current capabilities of Israel vs. Egypt(and the rest)?
“Go to comment of this author”>Donald freyman
Having worked on the intelligence failures at the Battle of the Bulge, the failure to find the V1 and V2 launching sites, the inability to predict the Soviet development of atomic weapons and later hydrogen weapons, our failure to detect both the Pakistani and Indian nuclear programs, our failure to detect the Saddam Hussein nuclear program before Gulf War ,The US and Israeli failures to locate Saddam Hussein’s launching sites for scud missiles launched against Israel,and after having had extensive discussions with Roberta Wohlstetter and with Bernard Brodie when I worked with them at RAND CORPORATION, I am concerned that anyone in the US government would seriously claim that we could detect when the supreme leader would actually give the final order to assemble a nuclear weapon and why anyone in the Jewish community would be lulled into confidence by anything said like this by the Secretary of State, the Secretary of Defense and/or the president.
In my days we concentrated on capabilities, not intentions. That is why for years, based on my first-hand knowledge through my participation in the military support/advisory programs, I have warned about the extensive capabilities of the Egyptian military.
yamit82 Said:
Yes, I am an Atheist Zionist – even to the point of supporting only Judaism as the religion of Israel because of the exigencies of cultural survival.
Condell is an Atheist also. I admire spirituality, kindness, charity, forgiveness, benevolence, acceptance etc- those things are all from the human condition of being in the universe. All specific religions in the world would disappear and never be seen again if humankind developed mass amnesia because all their anthropomorphism refers to nothing real, it is all invented.
..
My base group that I am loyal with the first priority is all humanity. Unfortunately the human race is culturally diseased with destructive and oppressive cultures. Usually the infection of fascist ideologies is fatal – there often is no going back to innocence or good even if the person has not yet committed fascist actions.
The human race is at war: fascism versus freedom, fascist ideologies versus ideologies of freedom. World War 1 and 2 were just warm-ups, we have not yet won against evil or purged ourselves of our evil genealogy.
If we lose 99 percent of our race to cleanse ourselves then the Universe will still reward us with six billion more years of life on this planet. All loses are acceptable so long as freedom wins.
Failure is de-evolution – a world of mindless slaves and vacant mindless rulers. Such a society once genetically achieved through war and elimination of the defiant (this will actually create genetically predisposed slaves) simply die out as it has no self actualization -it’s a dead system.
So if they win not only do we lose, everyone loses.
@ Donald freyman:
Don, you just don’t get the kool-aid bit do you.
Come in out of the rain before you catch a cold.
@ rongrand:
I think you are back on your Kool-aid again. My Catholic sisters in parochial school counseled me not to pay attention to a Kool-aid junkie.
@ Max:
I know! 😛
@ Laura:
I wish you were right. I wish it were just a matter of lack of guts.
No, Laura, I am convinced we are “led” by bought and paid for traitors in the truest sense, working on behalf of the Moslem world, stuffing their bank accounts with petrodollars as they sell us all out with their open appeasement of barbarians who happen to have a lot of money to buy them with.
It is hard to accept that a collection of medieval child molesters who were riding on camels and living in tents only 70 years ago, have penetrated and taken control of the most powerful country on earth. But they have, because they believe in SOMETHING – even if that “something” is horrific – and major segments of our leadership class believe in NOTHING, except raw power and personal wealth. They are supremely vulnerable to the two-pronged attack of the moneyed barbarians: bribery on the one hand, threats from “extremists” on the other who are not at all afraid to kill or die for their cause. This impresses such shallow and venal people as the likes of Hillary Clinton, etc. Add to this a president who postively HATES America….
This is far, far worse than simply being run by “panicky old ladies”. Oh, if only that were the problem….
@ yamit82:
Gobbledygook to me. I don’t see anything useful in any religion. I regard all of it as a culturally indoctrinated mental illness.
yamit82 Said:
Yes, in such a scenario of global economic collapse, it won’t matter. I had in mind the scenario of Bernard Ross, Arab world unified against Israel, and the rest of the world in a state of business-as-usual.
There’s an additional reason for Israel not to alienate the American people: they are your only friends in the West.
I am sure you are aware of how anti-Semitic the Europeans are. In my country, Greece, they don’t even hide behind the label of “anti-Zionism”: Greek anti-Semitism is the Arabic variety, the real stuff, replete with the Protocols of the elders, the Zionist bankers, the Jewish cabal that secretly controls the USA – I haven’t heard if there is dragon in the fairytale, but I’m sure that, if there is one, he will certainly have the Star of David inscribed on him.
The Neo-Nazi Party got 7% in the last elections and polls give it right now a 10% (with an upward trend). The most revered Greek music composer, Mikis Theodorakis, made public statements 2-3 years ago attributing the Greek economic crisis to “American Zionist” bankers (yes, he probably thinks that American Jews wake up every morning plotting how to subjugate the world to Israel, he hasn’t heard of Peter Beinart, or Tom Freedman, or Judith Butler).
The general Greek public (misinformed by the Media, but very willing to swallow anything against the Jews) has a picture of the 2009 Gaza War as a case where Israelis invaded the oppressed people of Gaza and subsequently killed their children. No reporter bothered to report the reason for the invasion (and how could they, since officially there are no terrorists in Gaza, there are only “militants”), let alone to mention the fact that Israel had unilaterally surrendered Gaza in 2005 – and that Israel does not target civilians.
I could go on forever with what is going on in Greece, which is a more coarse version of what is happening in Europe.
In such a West, I think you need all your American friends.
@ James B – Canada:
I would love to see the list of primary targets Israel has for Samson option. I will bet America is on the list, certainly Russia is near the top of the list of targets. 400-600 nukes will create a NWO. what’s left of it anyway.
@ Laura:
<blockquote
Don't think it's the lack of testosterone, I think it's quite premeditated and directed as a long standing policy of mainly America and Britain.
@ dionissis mitropoulos:
America is toast even if it takes another 5-10 years to become apparent to the most Pollyanna optimists pov.
As an Israeli Jew, I say :screw America they had their chance and blew it. What happened to ancient Tyre will happen to their modern clone America.
When America, Europe and most of the world collapses economically what matters Saudi Oil?
@ Max:
Moslems will fight against Christians: The Zohar
yamit82 Said:
More correct is replace the word ‘Iran’ with the word ‘Islam’.
Bernard Ross Said:
No, please don’t! The Saudi oil fields should stay intact. In the scenario that you describe, the last thing Israel would need is to lose the American public opinion, as it is certain to happen if Americans suddenly see the oil prices exploding due to an Israeli action that will be perceived as gratuitous.
Of course my argument does not apply in the case of a strike on Iran. In such a scenario oil prices too will probably rise (at least temporarily, until the USA navy clears the seaways that Iran is certain to block), but even those Americans who would disagree with the strike will know deep down in their hearts that Israel acted out of the necessity to secure its survival.
Destroying Saudi oil fields though will be seen as an overkill, as a tactical move that Israel could have avoided so as not to hurt the American economy.
It is not the USA oil industry only that would be hurt. It is the American public too. And such a move, one that risks alienating the American people, should be undertaken only in situations that threaten Israel’s survival. I don’t think that eliminating Saudi funding (to whomever) is one of them.
Capturing the oil fields? That’s ok.
Yesterday it was considered absurd to contemplate war with egypt or jordan and that the treaties were permanent. Comments regarding retaking the Sinai were considered ridiculous. Today everyone must be suddenly contemplating a new world. Retaking the Sinai must now be considered not only a real consderation but a probable scenario and important goal. Along with this should be a whole new paradigm of thinking that reconsiders all the previous paradigms. In the current situation it is likely that war will erupt with all the players:syria, lebanon, jordan, gaza,egypt, iran. Let us also consider Iraq, saudi and the rest. There is an opportimity for the entire arab and muslim world to solve all its problems by simply refocusing on war with the Jews: unity will suddenly appear, internal strife will be refocused on the one unifying factor, even muslim nations further afield will jump into this great opportunity of refocusing their noisy populations to the jewish red herring. The real question is less the likelihood of this happening but what will Israel do? Israel should seriously consider and have ready the nuclear option as attacks from all may be too much. This time if Israel is forced into war their should be no return of any land or assets and Israel should become a merciless conqueror throwing out one sided geneva conventions such as population transfer(which has only served to transfer jews from arab nations). If Israel again crosses the suez it must permanently seize and it order to maintain control bring the war to cairo. The problem is that the US has built up the egyptian armaments at 3 billion a year and a surprise like 67 is unlikely. I believe the muslims truly seek war with the jews now. They are capable of changing quickly from a sunni shiite war to a muslim jewish war: it would make sense to their interests to reach accomodation with each other and that may only be dne be refocusing towards Israel. It may end up being in Israels interest to either capture or destroy the saudi fields so as to eliminate funding. Israels interest may end up directly in conflict with the US oil interest. This is not a time for the type of misjudgements characterized by Barak but rather an ability to see the worst scenarios of attacks from all. It should now be clear that what was considered unthinkable by most yesterday is today the most probable. This is the type of thinking that should be expanded to all areas and if utilized can bring opportunities that could not be considered yesterday.
The administration should be condemning the attacks on our friend Israel.
Attacks on Israel are almost daily and not word of condemnation.
Time for the US to stand up against muslim world who hates both the US and Israel (Americans and Jews)
Threats, or more likely, rumors of threats by the US State Department and/or US Defense Department establishments under just about any US president, in regard to any action Israel is compelled to initiate for purposes of its own defense, should be noted by the Government of Israel but otherwise ignored.
Evading the imperative of terminating Iran’s nuclear waapons development program in itself establishes an existential threat against the Jewish state. Moreover, at this stage of our history, the destruction of the Jewish state would seriously threaten the existence of our 37-cenury old Jewish nation as well.
Threats or rumored threats of a termination of recognition of the State of Israel by a pair of blatherskite Arab regimes, most of the populations of which regard everyone Jewish or Israeli as an insult against their religion, are nothing in comparison to what is almost certain to happen if the Iranian nuclear weapons enrichment laboratories are not destroyed in time.
The time has come for all Jews, along with other non-Muslims, to begin serious thinking about the endlessly protracted struggle in which the world is engaged, and act accordingly.
Arnold Harris
Mount Horeb WI
I knew that these latest muslim riots would be used by our government as yet another excuse why Israel should not preemptively strike Iran.
The hysterical fear our government is showing toward muslims is embarrassing. The muslim world responds to this weakness with further aggression. There is a lack of testosterone running through our leadership. We are being led by frightened, panicky old ladies.
Typical of the Obama admin.
First of all since Israel is our only true friend and trusted ally in the ME, the admin. should ASK Israel if we can be of any help, not warn.
Ties to Muslim Brotherhood Egypt is worthless.
US reportedly warns Israel that strike on Iran will cause Egypt, Jordan to sever ties” rel=”nofollow”>You can expect a lot of Hamas & Arab terrorist coming from MB Egypt
Of course the liberal left media doesn’t report on almost daily terrorist attacks on Israel and her people.
The administration is only interested in excusing Islamic Extremist behavior.
@ Donald freyman:
I have no inside knowledge, just a fair amount of education, both of the formal variety and self-study, in national security affairs and military aerospace.
I have a particular educated guess as to how Israel will accomplish this task. I NEVER post it on the Internet, or even talk on the phone about it.
I have, however, run it past some nuclear engineer friends of mine. They say it is perfectly feasible, what I anticipate Israel will do. And if they will do what I imagine, like Shmuel says above, you can bet they are NOT going to be talking about it publicly AT ALL before the fact. You can also bet that it will be VERY effective.
The real trick for Israel is not so much the strike itself. It is carrying out the strike in such a manner that Obama & Co. can’t give timely warning to Iran. That issue, not the feasibility of the action itself, is what I believe is holding Bibi back. What a state we have come to…
In any event, as to the issue raised by the article above, what in blazes does Israel have to lose at this point? Ohhhhh, Egypt might “sever ties”. They might hate Israel EVEN MORE… I don’t think that is possible. Might they burn 150 Israeli flags in the street today instead of the usual 149? And Jordan, whose Kinglet frequently refers to Israel as a “rogue state”, who, in the fashion after his father, has placed the entire onus of solving the “Palestinian problem” on Israel’s shoulders, at her potential expense entirely…even as his country has an overwhelming majority Palestinian Arab population. Yeah, such a great “friend” they are. Let them cut ties and start a war today, and get CREAMED tomorrow. Empty stupid threats they might really be empty-headed enough to carry out, and good riddance to them.
@ SHmuel HaLevi:
I hope.
@ SHmuel HaLevi:
Israel should take back Gaza and the Sinai, they are part of the Holy Land G-d provided for His people. He and only He has the authority to relinquish any of this land. He may not be pleased with the Israeli leadership, especially since the government will not allow the Jews to pray in their own Temple.
Something wrong with this picture.
@ Donald freyman: Allow me to provide for you some information that may help you to have a clue on how the game is played.
Israel, even under at times poor leadership, has an ongoing record of military know how even if some of the military actions are not to my pleasure.
The US, in turn has since Nam a consistent record of misery and defeat.
I would like you to understand the function of the Israeli Office of the Censor.
Nothing you read published regarding National Security is there before the government and censors provide an OK. Woe to any violators. Believe me, woe.
In other words, having been an Invited Consultant to the Ministry of Defense here, I can assure you that what you hear has quite likely no connection with what the planners and decision makers are doing or thinking.
They are funny that way… 🙂
How did it happen that America is now run by fags and muslims? Fag – a bunch of sticks to be burned to serve as kindling wood and of course, I am suggesting that they are effeminate.
How did it happen? Your muslim fruitcake POTUS is still claiming that the video is the source of the tension and hostilities in the muslim world which I call “the vomit zone”; a 1,000 years of vomit they have given the world.
After the war Israel will get the Sinai back and most of Jordan.
Israelis must go ape$hit and just kill, kill,kill any muslim man, “woman” if you can call them that without offending alla and especially the children so that they can no longer reproduce.
I plan to give hundreds of dollars to the Libby fund.
@ Eric R.:
not enough these rabid muslim vermin need exterminated as they do to those that offer the hand of humanity of which they have proven they are unfit to accept
Severing ties–would be a good thing–the USA should have already done this!
Obama’s US is pulling every trick it can find in its tawdry grabbag to keep its Islamic friends from suffering a disastrous defeat at the hands of its so-called ally.
Good. After the war Israel will get the Sinai back and most of Jordan.
Certainly an Obama – State Department wordmanship spin. Likely to become self fulfilling. It also shows how desperate the hybrid is.
Israel in turn would be entitled to re assume control and declare Sinai being part of Israel. Egypt is in no condition to even skirmish with meandering Bedouin tramps.
I expect Soetoro Obama to remove the MNF, US military charged to oversee the so called “peace treaty” from their sorry hideaways in Sinai very soon.
Now…
Soetoro Obama also re allocated 90 B61 nuclear bombs to Turkey not long ago.
I would not be surprised if Turkey will take them over and give some to her pals…
@ dionissis mitropoulos: BOOOOOOOMMMMM! 🙂
I think it is in Parsi but could be also in regular Arabic with some minor adjustments which we are prepared to do any time. On the house…
I think it is similar to withdrawing ambassadors. NOT war, but not friendly either.
Check with an International Law Attorney.
@ Ted Belman:
Isn’t it an act of war to cancel a peace treaty?
In any all out war between Israel and Iran, Iran will cease to exist. This was the subject 4 years ago of an 80 page report by Anthony Cordesman. He predicted Iran was cease to exist as an organized society . They would suffer much more damage than they could possibly inflict on Israel. Most people believe because Israel is much smaller , they would suffer more damage. However, there are several important factors that are in Israel’s favor. Israel has a much larger nuclear arsenal.In addition, the yield (destructive power) of Israeli Nukes on average are much higher than anything Iran will possess for the foreseeable future. Although, Iran is much larger, its’ economy ,manufacturing centers and other important infrastructure are concentrated in Teheran. Teheran is located in the ideal location to suffer the full power of a nuclear bomb. It is located in a “bowl” i.e. surrounded by mountains which would contain the energy released from a nuclear weapon in the greater Teheran area resulting in maximum damage. Cordesman estimated Iran would lose 30 million people while Israel would lose a million people. The death of one Jew is one too many. But the Iranian leaders are as evil as Hitler. But the difference is Jews in 2012 are in no way nearly as vulnerable as in the 1930s and 40s. They possess their own country which has the 4th largest nuclear arsenal and the third best military in the world.
@ yamit82:
Yes, you are right, there’s really no option, Israel will have to strike sooner or later, either before Iran gets the bomb, or after. Obama has made it clear that he wants no part in it (he doesn’t want to be “complicit”, as one of his mouthpieces put it – I think it was General Dempsey. Now, “complicit” is a term we use when crimes are perpetrated, and Israel’s exercise of the right to self defense is not a crime, but Israel unfortunately is stuck with the most anti-Israel President of the USA ever).
I fear that Israel hasn’t seen the worst from bOmbama yet. If the worst happens, I mean his reelection, it is in his second term, when he’ll be free from vote considerations, that his true face will be exposed. And I am not charging him with anti-Semitism (which, by the way, is very likely if we consider who were his friends, guys like Khalidi), but with a narcissism of biblical proportions, that might lead him to impose on Israel unprecedented concessions to the Palestinian terrorists, so that he can be seen as the one President that made real “progress” in resolving the Middle East conflict – no matter how untenable that progress might be.
The majority are not always right!!!
Numbers 13
King James Version (KJV)
13 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
2 Send thou men, that they may search the land of Canaan, which I give unto the children of Israel: of every tribe of their fathers shall ye send a man, every one a ruler among them.
3 And Moses by the commandment of the Lord sent them from the wilderness of Paran: all those men were heads of the children of Israel.
4 And these were their names: of the tribe of Reuben, Shammua the son of Zaccur.
5 Of the tribe of Simeon, Shaphat the son of Hori.
6 Of the tribe of Judah, Caleb the son of Jephunneh.
7 Of the tribe of Issachar, Igal the son of Joseph.
8 Of the tribe of Ephraim, Oshea the son of Nun.
9 Of the tribe of Benjamin, Palti the son of Raphu.
10 Of the tribe of Zebulun, Gaddiel the son of Sodi.
11 Of the tribe of Joseph, namely, of the tribe of Manasseh, Gaddi the son of Susi.
12 Of the tribe of Dan, Ammiel the son of Gemalli.
13 Of the tribe of Asher, Sethur the son of Michael.
14 Of the tribe of Naphtali, Nahbi the son of Vophsi.
15 Of the tribe of Gad, Geuel the son of Machi.
16 These are the names of the men which Moses sent to spy out the land. And Moses called Oshea the son of Nun Jehoshua.
17 And Moses sent them to spy out the land of Canaan…
21 So they went up, and searched the land…
25 And they returned from searching of the land after forty days.
26 And they went and came to Moses, and to Aaron, and to all the congregation of the children of Israel, unto the wilderness of Paran, to Kadesh; and brought back word unto them, and unto all the congregation, and shewed them the fruit of the land.
27 And they told him, and said, We came unto the land whither thou sentest us, and surely it floweth with milk and honey; and this is the fruit of it.
28 Nevertheless the people be strong that dwell in the land, and the cities are walled, and very great: and moreover we saw the children of Anak there.
29 The Amalekites dwell in the land of the south: and the Hittites, and the Jebusites, and the Amorites, dwell in the mountains: and the Canaanites dwell by the sea, and by the coast of Jordan.
30 And Caleb stilled the people before Moses, and said, Let us go up at once, and possess it; for we are well able to overcome it.
31 But the men that went up with him said, We be not able to go up against the people; for they are stronger than we.
32 And they brought up an evil report of the land which they had searched unto the children of Israel, saying, The land, through which we have gone to search it, is a land that eateth up the inhabitants thereof; and all the people that we saw in it are men of a great stature.
33 And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants: and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight….
Numbers 14
6 And Joshua the son of Nun, and Caleb the son of Jephunneh, which were of them that searched the land, rent their clothes:
7 And they spake unto all the company of the children of Israel, saying, The land, which we passed through to search it, is an exceeding good land.
8 If the Lord delight in us, then he will bring us into this land, and give it us; a land which floweth with milk and honey.
9 Only rebel not ye against the Lord, neither fear ye the people of the land; for they are bread for us: their defence is departed from them, and the Lord is with us: fear them not.
10 But all the congregation bade stone them with stones…
Everyone remembers the names Caleb and Joshua – who remembers the others?!!!
Trust in God – and fight!!!
@ yamit82:
Most indicators point to the near impossibility of a successful Israeli strike on its own. Practically all of the Israeli intelligence and military leadership are opposed. Are we to agree that Israpundits have superior knowledge on this issue.Don’t make me laugh.
@ dionissis mitropoulos:
Here are our two choices
To strike or not to strike?
Attacking Iran is something that the Israelis, and only the Israelis, have the right to decide on, because it is their survival that is at stake.
On the face of this simple truth, Obama’s attempts to deactivate one of Israel’s options (the aggressive one) are so morally wrong, so vulgar, so insensitive to a whole nation’s legitimate fears for Holocaust #2, that one is justified to consider him unworthy as a human being. How else can one judge him, seeing his preoccupation with his reelection at the expense of an innocent people’s existence? How does he justify to himself endangering Israel just because the temporary oil price increases (that would possibly attend an Israeli strike) would endanger his second term as President? I conclude that Obama’s vanity weighs more than a decent nation’s survival – according to Obama’s moral scales, hence my calling him unworthy as a human being.
But not only does he force Israel to refrain from action ( a decision that only the Israelis have a right to make), he also winks at Iran, green-lighting the acquisition of nukes by one of the world’s most aggressive regimes. For how else can we interpret the refusal to set red lines on Iran? If his actions are saying to Iran that he will deter Israel from striking, and that the USA will not strike either, then he is in effect telling Iran that it can proceed with impunity to get the bomb.
How do we say “bOmbama” in Farsi?
I have been saying for a long time that these nations want and need war in order to get rid of unproductive, consuming, aggressive male mouths and to consolidate power during a war govt structure. In a war they will have no oppositions. I believe that the raison d’etre of al qaeda is to keep the muslim riff raff fighting, and dying, far away in foreign wars. Hyped up psychopathic cult clones must have an outlet or they become dangerous to their rulers.
@ CuriousAmerican:
Disagree. They only time these two sects have cooperated is when they unite against Israel and the Jews.
Irony will be if Romney wins and installs his Mormon mafia in all key administrative posts.
I know a lot of Christians who will yearn for Obama when that happens. 🙂
Threat or self fulfilling promise?
The best thing that could happen toIsrael would be the official abrogation of our agreements with those two economic basket cases who can’t even feed their own people.
It is past time to end delusions that will later become very costly to Israel. A WAR whether we want one or not will be. Sooner is better than later.
Maybe he is correct but the question should be whether Iran will survive.
What good protected nuke underground installations buried under millions of tons of radio active rubble?
Maybe they can be made useable in a 1000 years.
Let them sever ties. Let the Egyptians even try to invade Sinai.
If they try it, how many millions of dead Egyptians would be washed into the Mediterranean once the Aswan Dam was nuked?
Bluffing. Sunnis hate Shi’a more than they hate Jews.