T. Belman.(Jan 8, 2023) Trump left prematurely but will probably return in two years. But the Plan envisaged in this article remained and will shortly be effected. I have used a red font for the key paragraphs.
T. Belman. Read carefully because this deal is what will go down. Trump’s ‘deal of the century’ map for a future Palestine, Israel was published on Jan 28/20. I believe its a non starter and will never happen. It is described by The Arab Center for Research and Policy Studies in Doha and by Al Jazeera
This deal originated with Mudar Zahran and Ted Belman.
By Ted Belman (originally published on Oct 17/18)
Very few people, if any, believe that Pres. Trump will succeed with his Deal of the Century, but I do.
Nor do they know what that deal is or when it will be tabled. But they do know that the US under his leadership is acting unilaterally to neuter the UN, UNRWA and the PA. They also know he acted unilaterally to kill the climate hoax and the Iran Deal and to change free trade into fair trade.
In explaining his recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel he stressed that he was just recognizing reality.
In a recent interview, Jason Greenblatt, Pres Trump’s special envoy, said “our plan begins with reality. It recognizes the history of the conflict of course, but [other plans] were always relying on tired notions of what it should be. Instead, it focuses on what it could be.”
Thus, I assume that the Palestinian narrative that has driven the peace process and world opinion for fifty years will be severely undermined and replaced with a reality-based process and history starting with the Palestine Mandate. Greenblatt is mindful of the fact that this narrative was crafted by the KGB in its consultations with Arafat in the sixties and afterwards. They invented the Palestinian people as a means to cast the Arabs as the oppressed and the Israelis as the oppressors.
The basis for the Plan will be the signing of the Palestine Mandate in 1922. This mandate split Palestine into two mandates under British rule, namely Arab Palestine (Transjordan) which received 78% of the land and Jewish Palestine (Israel) which received the remaining 22%. Britain tried to further divide the 22%, most notably in the UN Partition Plan of 1947, without success. The UNGA passed the resolution pursuant to which, Israel declared independence. The Arabs rejected it and declared war on Israel thereby ending their opportunity for creating an Arab state on the part allocated to them.
Mudar Zahran, the leader of the Opposition Coalition of Jordan, recognizes this history when he says, as he did to a recent session of the EU Parliament, that the only occupation going on is the Hashemite occupation of Palestinian land, namely Jordan, ever since Jordan’s independence in 1946.
International law recognizes Israel’s right to claim sovereignty over the entire 22%. In addition, Israel cemented this right by their victory over the Arabs in the ’67 War.
No doubt this history will inform the design of the Plan.
Greenblatt went on to articulate a red line, if you will, saying “we will not put forth a plan or endorse a plan that doesn’t meet all of Israel’s security issues because they are of extreme importance to us“ and “Israel is going to have to be comfortable that what we put forth in the plan does not put Israel at risk.” The Palestinians must accept this as fundamental to the Plan and be “comfortable” with it.
Thus, we can safely assume that Israel will not have to withdraw the IDF from any lands west of the Jordan River. You will recall that Obama wanted to limit their presence in the Jordan valley to a number of decades only.
In explaining why he is putting all this effort into achieving peace when there are bigger problems in the Middle east, namely Syria and Iran, Greenblatt said,
“we think that there are unique circumstances now that warrant an attempt at trying to see whether or not we can do this. President Trump, as devoted and dedicated to the State of Israel and the Jewish people as he is, he’s also dedicated to trying to help the Palestinian people, and the way we can marry those two ideas is by trying to reach a comprehensive peace agreement.”
Thus, he is guided by two goals. He wants to strengthen Israel and he wants to help the Palestinian people. As he said, “We do believe that many Palestinians want to live in peace, and they want to see their lives improved.”
So how can he marry these goals. He said, “Thus we must abandon all the old formulae and focus on what is doable”.
Taking all the foregoing into account, I believe that the Plan will recognize the original division of Palestine into Jordan as the Palestinian state and Israel as the Jewish state. These states already have a peace agreement in which the agreed border is the Jordan River.
So far so good. But what will happen with the two million Palestinians, all of whom have Jordanian citizenship, living west of the Jordan River? Presently, these Palestinians live for the most part in Areas A and B (1.4 million), Area C (100,000) and Jerusalem (350,000) as defined by the Oslo Accords.
According to a very well-informed source (and reiterated in 2022) , the administration of the A areas, will pass from the PA to Jordan. These areas include, Tulkarn, Qalkilya, Jenin, Nablus, Ramallah, Bethlehem and Jericho. The B areas will be absorbed into the C area in order to remove the Swiss cheese effect. Hebron, on the other hand will be administered by a joint local council made up of Israelis and Palestinians. This is the Confederation that Abbas rejected a few weeks ago
In late August, U.S. Ambassador to Israel David Friedman told members of the American Jewish Congress that “there is no capacity to have peace with the Palestinians unless there’s peace with all the Palestinians, including the million and a half in Gaza.”
My source also tells me that the Palestinians living in the Gaza Strip will be given the option of being in a confederation either with Jordan or Egypt. Either way, negotiating a Gaza truce is part of the deal.
This means that the PA will be done away with because its primary function is to wage war against Israel’s legitimacy
All Palestinians living west of the River will be seen as both Jordanian citizens and foreign residents. There will be no need to give them Israeli citizenship.
Israel would then be free to build without restraint in the expanded Area C and in other ways exercise its sovereignty on all lands west of the Jordan R.
In effect, all Arabs will remain where they are and will continue to work in Israel. The only difference will be that they have to give up their aspirations for a Palestinian state west of the Jordan R and accept that Jordan is the Palestinian state.
Jordan and Israel will negotiate separate agreements dealing with joint economic relations and joint military arrangements.
The existing Qualified Industrial Zones (QIZ) in which Israeli companies currently produce goods in Jordan which are sold to the US free of tariffs, will be expanded and improved. Other job creating joint ventures will be set up. These jobs will be available to all Palestinians who emigrate to Jordan. Expectations are that many Palestinians living west of the river will emigrate to Jordan to avail themselves of these jobs.
In The Jordan Option promoted by Mudar Zahran and me, I proposed that Jordan build a city for 1 million people and that these homes be given to the Palestinians who emigrate. I am informed by this source that Jordan is a welfare state that guarantees housing to all citizens. Jordan will start with building an extra 500,000 units to accommodate the influx of citizens. Thus, this too will induce many Palestinians to emigrate to Jordan.
It should be made clear that Israel will not be party to or countenance forced ethnic cleansing.
There is also talk about joint military planning between Israel and Jordan. In effect Jordan military will become an extension of the IDF. Jordan may also be the buyer of the 100 F-16s that Israel now wishes to sell.
UNRWA will be scuttled. The Palestinian refugees in Lebanon, Syria and Iraq will be invited to move to Jordan as full citizens thereby ending their refugee status.
Mudar Zahran is also committed to Muslims and Jews sharing the Temple Mount. The Muslim Holy Place will be the Al Aqsa Mosque and the lands immediately surrounding it and the rest of the Temple Mount will be a Jewish Holy Place
Many Israelis will not be happy with the fact that the Arabs will remain but at least there will be no obligation to offer them a path to citizenship. Furthermore, this deal will do away with the Palestinian narrative which is the cause of so much disloyalty among Arab Israelis.
As Greenblatt said, the Palestinians and the Israelis must decide, “Will we be better off with this plan or continuing without it?” I believe, on balance, that both the Israelis and the Palestinians will accept the Plan. The Israelis hunger for an end of conflict agreement and the Palestinians are sick and tired of living under the corrupt oppressive PA rule and under the King’s rule as the case may be. They are hungry for change and normalization.
As for the Arab world, Greenblatt said, “We’re also hopeful that we can count on their support, and I use the word ”support” rather than “approval”. Thus, he doesn’t expect them to publicly accept the Plan but he does expect them to not undermine its acceptance.
Both Abbas and King Abdullah have publicly rejected any such plan. Assuming no change of heart on their part, they will be replaced. Mudar Zahran is waiting on the sidelines. He most certainly accepts such a plan.
Conventional wisdom has it that Israel would never agree to ousting Abdullah. After all, as the theory goes, the border has been quiet for 30 years. But increasingly, Israel sees Abdullah as an obstructionist just like Abbas. I think that Israel is ready for change, especially if change leads to a resolution of the conflict.
Conventional wisdom also suggests that if Mudar Zahran becomes the leader of Jordan, the Muslim Brotherhood, whose world headquarters is in Jordan, would oust him from power within 24 hours. In this, it is also wrong. Within the said 24 hours, Zahran will designate it a terrorist organization and ban it. In this, he would have the support of Saudi Arabia, Egypt, UAE, Israel and the US.
Finally, I would like to point out that this Plan is the exact plan envisaged and promoted by Mudar and me in the last 18 months. We called it the Jordan Option.
I believe that this deal will be accepted and will be seen as the Deal of the Century.
Ted Belman is the Editor of Israpundit.com which he started 16 years ago. Together with Mudar Zahran, he spear-headed the plan, in the spring of 2017, to replace King Abdullah, as the leader of Jordan, with Mudar Zahran, the Head of the Jordan Opposition Coalition. This plan was dubbed The Jordan Option. Many if not all the principles set out in the plan are reflected in the Deal of the Century.
This from Michael Freund’s latest column in the Jerusalem Post. Relevant to the Jordanian Option, hence not chit-chat.
@ Ted Belman:
That’s OK, Ted. With all the craziness in the media lately, it’s all any of us can do to keep our heads screwed on right. For all I know, Bear might have been angry at me for something said on CNN; and I got angry at him because of things other people have said about me.
As far as the Jewish people are concerned, I wish them all a wonderful 2019.
I’m really concerned about my own people, though — namely, Americans. With the Dems in control of the House, and with their having pretty much promised to waste two years trying to impeach the President, things have gotten really out of hand. When Clinton was getting impeached, at least laws got passed and government functioned. Now we are in a time of unprecedented prosperity, yet our border is insecure and our Coast Guard is begging for its pay. It’s crazy. Imagine the Israeli government refusing to pay its troops to keep out the Gaza marchers. I pray, and try to cast my concerns to God; but I’ll be honest — these are scary times, especially for our children.
Thank you for checking what I said, and for your response. If Bear is looking in, I’m also sorry if I’ve somehow upset him. God bless and keep you all.
@ Michael S:
Sorry. I missed that. I couldn’t find the other quote that I took exception to.. Its there if you want to look for it. But it doesn’t matter, as long as you understand that saying “you Jews…” is inappropriate.
@ Ted Belman:
Bear was obviously way off base. Yamit made a typo, writing “2918” instead of “2018”. It was a joke, and I am sure Yamit understood it as such. Why Bear took it upon himself to butt in on this conversation just to criticize me for something I didn’t even do, is beyond me. I’d like him to be honest, and simply tell me why he doesn’t like me. It’s that simple.
Bear took you to task for t his.”You Jews are long term thinkers”.
I am looking for the one that I pointed out.
@ Ted Belman:
Ted,
You said,
” It is inappropriate to say “you Jews are all rich greedy, miserly, communist and so on.”
Please point out to me, where I said anything approaching these things. I think you are imagining things.
@ Edgar G.:
@ Ted Belman:
Sounds almost too lavish… One thing I don’t like. If you can get the Gazans OUT never let them back in…even as labourers. They’ll always hold a deeeep grudge and can’t be trusted. Sabotage will develop like magic. Gas wells will explode etc……
@ honeybee:
O.K. I heard…..??? So sorry…where does it hurt…? no matter… I have a certain balsam, made from a secret process, and under a new moon in the last month of a Jubilee Year….. so it’s very special…You rub it in…always works, especially if you say particular prayers before use……….which, unfortunately, I have forgotten….. since I haven’t needed it for many years, me being a really inoffensive person who never hurts anyone….except in self-defence, as all will tell you…
Oh yes, I just remembered…if you spit twice over your left shoulder whilst standing on your head WHILST using….. that might work.. … it cures like magic-believe me… presto….!!,
@ yamit82:
The Jordan Option would not happen without the approval of Bibi and Trump. Once done there is no need for the Deal of the Century. Its inherent in the JO.
With the prospect of Mudar coming to power very soon, I am working with others to produce a paper which goes into detail about specific cities that could be built in Jordan and Egypt and the cost of doing so.. This is in the neighborhood of $30,000 per apartment.. 500,000 apartments would cost $15 Billion.
We are also working on a plan to empty out Gaza and to annex the land.. We are proposing that if either Egypt or Jordan take them in, they we will share the profits with them of developing Gaza. All the gas from the future wells offshore from Gaza could be thrown into the deal. Of course, Gazans would be hired as laborers.
@ honeybee:
You wake from your New Years hangover? Happy New year!!
Edgar G. Said:
Hear I thought I was the person. Yanit82 is just an ordinary “know it all”/ I am hurt , my Dear.
@ yamit82:
We can agree to differ…after all it’s only a matter of semantics/logic and fact, as compared to a jumble of undated “tradition”…. By the way Persian rule ended at the time of Alexander, about 325-30 B.C.E. Then the Seleucids ruled, then the Chashmonim, then the Romans, who destroyed the Temple in 70…. all of which you well know.
Omitted or misleading statements don’t bother me, especially from you…because as well as ably collating floods of interesting information, you also are the “Provocateur le Plus Grande”
yamit82 Said:
I would like to hear your belt buckle hit the floor , Soldier.
yamit82 Said:
that ,Sir, is my line
@ Edgar G.:
The Temple Mount during the times of Ezra and Nehemiah
Second Temple Period (538 B.C.E. to 70 C.E.) Persian Rule.
@ yamit82:
Haggai’s prediction was not realised. The Temple built by Zerubavel and etc was a very modest, undistinguished edifice. The fact that the people poured their money out for it means very little as the number of people then was, according to the texts I’ve read under 100,000 total, and Judah was just 800 sq. miles. The (city proper and) population of Jerusalem was so small, that Nehemiah held a lottery and ordered that 1 in 10 families had to move to the City.
When Herod began his grandiose structure, his architects realised that they could not properly transform the dilapidated pile into Herod’s intention, so they decided to, in effect, create a completely new building.. Josephus says that Zerubavel’s Temple was “replaced” by Herod….It was so great an undertaking that it continued until at least 60 years after Herod’s death. This has been amply confirmed by archaeologists and historians ….but don’t ask me for names I read all this many years ago and the books I have discussing the subject, include a complete set of sketches of every part, including mikvaot, underground passages, and etc which had been described in the Torah and in Josephus, and also marked what had been discovered up to that time (about the mid 1980s).
No remains specifically of Zerubavel’s Temple have so-far been found, only of Solomon’s. So everything above ground and in many cases to bedrock were built by Herod. The “traditions” say that Herod’s was the second temple when it was in fact a completely new and original building. I just looked up on the internet and saw that it was the largest 1st century construction project in the world.
To me it’s interesting, to you perhaps not. I have read that which you have highlighted several times in the past. Very descriptive of course, very interesting as always, date uncertain and confusing, common with poorly documented areas and periods.
@ Ted Belman:
Oy 🙂
@ Bear Klein:
If True it means the plan is bad for Israel and BB does not to run for elections on it. If the plan were good for Israel BB would have embraced it and used it for positive political capital. A bad plan gives opposition to his right ammo and he could lose mandates
@ Bear Klein:
I think Erdogan has already signed contracts for the S-400 and he has said publically he intends to go thru with the deal…..If he does what then? I know he has contracted like Egypt for other Russian platforms including aircraft….. How can NATO live with these violations of basic NATO protocols about sourcing outside of NATO? If you get the F-35 you can engineer how to defeat its defenses….. The military in Turkey today after the purges by Erdogan are less professional and less pro-West and American. Russia is back big time in the ME and so far on the cheap. Trump is mostly continuing Obama’s foreign policy of disengagement and leading from behind. I am not necessarily opposed from some disengagement in different places but where should be well thought out not just for the present but at least looking forward in the next 10 years…. there is NOKO, IRAN, Russia and CHINA but the ME will always fill vacuums and will chase after you if you disengage. Afghanistan should be left to the locals’ nobody will be welcome there from the outside. There is potentially Pakistan and India both Nuke powers. Trump is correct that America has to remain the dominant economic power in the world and build his foreign policy based on economic and military strength.
He got his military budgets but it will take years to bring the military up to level needed even today …. I am curious as to why he killed making public all relevant FISA docs as he promised and buried them after speaking with Rosenstein which gives me reason to question if Rosenstein has something on Trump? If he does it will surely come out sooner than later. If his nominee for AG passes easily then wll he has done is to nominate another Washington insider swamp dweller…
@ Ted Belman:
Any relevance to the statement by Bibi in Brazil, that Trumps plan will not be rolled out until after Israeli elections April 9?
http://www.israelhayom.com/2019/01/01/pm-trump-wont-roll-out-mideast-peace-plan-before-%e2%80%8eisraeli-elections/
@ Ted Belman:
If true great Ted!! You will be a national hero if it happens and works!
yamit82 Said:
The Jordan Option.
@ yamit82:
Israel it appears is to be the successor of making the parts the Turks have been making for the F35 if they are permanently pushed out of the picture of the F35.
Turkey was scheduled to get the S-400 a better newer version of the S-300 from Russia. Will the Turks back off this and just buy Patriot Systems so they can get the F35.
I personally hope they do NOT get the F35s. Hope Trump does not just think $$$$ on this because Turkey with F35s is dangerous to Israel.
Ted Belman Said:
What do you think is that different subject?
Turkey purchasing S-300 From Russia along with other weapon systems putting their F-35 deal in danger? It goes against NATO protocols. Is Keeping Turkey in NATO worth the problems they create today and even more tomorrow???
Turkey makes some vital parts for F-35 and could delay production schedules
@ Bear Klein:
Herod did not build the Temple from scratch but maily refurbished and expanded the Temple the Jews built under Ezra…..
Basically, the Temple of Herod is the same as the 2nd Temple built by Jews returning from Babylon….
yamit82 Said:
I agree. I see no reason to really get out. Why did this announcement deal with troops in Syria and not Iraq and why only half in Afghanastan.
You are beginning to see some light in suggesting that it was a distraction but I think that it has to do with an entirely different subject and was only meant to be temporary. So he has returned to business as usually.
@ Ted Belman:
Best explanation I have heard is that he wanted to deflect criticism over not getting funding for his wall and was ready to sign off on CR. Every time he gets pressure & criticism from his base he deflects by changing the subject away from the criticism.. This one backfired as most of his base sided with the opposition against his decision. “He, as usual, used his so often used hyperbole in claiming that He and American Troops had defeated ISIS (A Big Lie) and no reason to keep the troops in Syria. America has experienced almost no casualties in Syria and have decimated a Russian mercenary attempt to get control of Kurdish held oil-rich territory. American troops are placed so as to block further Iranian land supply of weapons munitions and troops into Syria and on to Lebanon on the Med. They also limit the Russian air dominance over Syria with their S-300 and other defensive weapons. That theoretically allows Israel some freedom to attack Iranian and Hezbollah forces in Syria and in transit to Lebanon…2200 troops a small relatively inexpensive investment with big payoffs so far. What the heel or biting sanctions against Iran good for if they are free to outflank Trump with the Russians in Syria? Why does Trump have advisors and a huge military assessment team if he either A ignores their collective advice or even worse never asks for it? As “Bear” said, what gives Trump the confidence that stupid Gulf State Arabs can fight and defeat the remnants of ISIS? Protect the Kurds? Block the Iranian takeover of Syria? Fight and or block Turkey from invading if Erdogan goes nuts? A myriad of reasons for keeping the troops where they are unless something changes on the ground or geopolitically and almost none for pulling them at least not now except it was a campaign promise almost nobody remembers or really cares about (not a bread and butter issues for most Republicans and not a major campaign promise like the WALL) All Trump sycophant spin explanations) so far have bombed and don’t cut it.
@ Edgar G.:
Common perception is that there were two great temples. What you are describing does not sound like a great temple. Which (not brush off) I never heard of but as I said I am not a Biblical Era Scholar. Please accept this as you do not want to believe that I know an inadequate amount about Biblical Times. Certain topics I believe I know a fair amount or more about but not this subject matter. More concerned with present and future!
@ Bear Klein:
Sounds like a classic “brush-off”…but I don’t mind. I’m sure you didn’t mean it to be.
The matter of the Temple needs only infant counting on toes… not an expert mathematician. Solomon built #1… Zerubavel/Ezra/Nehemah built #2 and Herod built #3. The middle one is always overlooked, because unlike the other two, it was small, unpretentious, and had no grandeur, nor majestic appearance like the 1st and 3rd. It was rather ruined when Herod came along. So it was wiped out of our memories -but not out of our history..
And Schumer s a dog … wouldn’t take umbrage at anything anyone said about him veiled or open. He’s not my kind of Jew…if one at all these days. Lip service if anything.
@ Ted Belman:
Ted, I told you I have sources by which I sometimes learn things that are not in the media. I heard about the Arab troops taking the place of US soldiers. I have no confidence in these Arab troops or the strong commitment of their leadership to actually confronting the Shia contingents on the ground.
I also think that the withdrawal has been slowed up now by pressured applied to Trump from military commanders he met in Iraq plus other friends.
Back to Israel and the Jordan option.
Israel needs to take actions that independently achieve stability and security. Even, if Jordan becomes Palestine in fact that does not preclude trouble from Hamas, Islamic Jihad, etc in both Gaza and Judea/Samaria.
Yes, if Jordan becomes Palestine that would take some of the heat (diplomatically) away from the two state solution including Judea/Samaria. It would not wash all the problems away as there a still a few million Arabs in Israel who many can not stand the state of Israel being run by Jews.
@ Edgar G.:
I am no fan of Chuck Schumur but cracks related to his religion when accompanied by cracks against other Jews like Shaked for mild diplomatically concerns over Syrian Troop withdrawal done in a sarcastic religious overtone are not acceptable to me and present the soft bigotry I mentioned.
Blasting Jews when you disagree with them is obviously okay when not done relating to their religion. I think Schumur is an asshole and a hypocrite.
I have no view on your Temple number question, not in my wheelhouse. I always just went along with the two prior Great Temples. I am not a scholar on Biblical Times.
The question I have contemplated before is should Israel build a new Grand Majestic Temple in Jerusalem. It has some appeal.
I am a pragmatist and budgets are always hard to come by. I would prefer more housing, schools, small synagogues and health clinics for the same money.
@ Ted Belman:
Actually Ted, I do entertain the possibility of what you say could become true.
It is not dismissed and if it occurs I will be your cheerleader if it occurs and works!
@ Edgar G.:
I never called him an antisemite. I only said his remark was “inappropriate”. It is inappropriate to say “you Jews are all rich greedy, miserly, communist and so on.” I venture to say that many people who utter such remarks, are antisemetic.. I gave him the benefit of the doubt and recommended that he figure out why they are inappropriate.
I googled “you Jews” and this is what I got.
https://www.google.com/search?q=%22you+Jews%22&oq=%22you+Jews%22&aqs=chrome..69i57j0.7951j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
@ Bear Klein:
You are right to be a skeptic. I don ‘t expect you to swear by what I tell you. But I do expect you to entertain the possibility that I am telling you the truth rather than simply ignoring what I tell you is happening.
For instance I was right about defending Trump regarding the troop withdrawal and its reversal. This defense was mounted in the face of an avalanche of criticism.
Now you might ask yourself, what was that all about? Could Trump have been so inept or was there a reason why he did so only to retract a a few days later?
@ Bear Klein
Perhaps tthe Chuck Schumer may would have been about him as a conniving Liberal Democ RAT trying to tear Trump (his idol) out of the Presidency.(and perhaps celebrating in Gehinnom) In this case, for me, “all Jews are (not) brothers”…. have always had a particular antipathy since the Clinton days, for Schumer, Wexler, and Nadler. I don’t know why, because Clinton with his W.C. Fields “nosette”, was NO favourite of mine. He has the shiftiest little eyes I’ve ever seen. Instinctively untrustworthy.
As for wishing me a Happy New Year, I thank you but my New Year is Rosh Hashana. I’ve never paid any attention to Jan 1st, except as a large source of income when I ran a band which played every 31st Dec. for many many years ..never missed one. A good or even mediocre band could get as much as would normally be paid for 5-6-7 jobs. on that date. Also 26th Dec. it was common for bands to take a booking, then renege for a better paying one, leaving organisers with halls booked, tickets sold, advts. printed etc.etc. A miniature goldmine..
But the MOST important point about it was that no matter where I was playing, I made sure to slip out and send my dear late mother a telegram, because her birthday was on Jan. 1st. My own followed 5 days later, so t was a little “game” we played together…Long long ago.
About the dicy comments made by Michael…I wonder how I missed them..? I’ m normally more perceptive.
Anyway Bear I want your opinion sometime on the number of Temples as well as on “Hashmon”…So don’t go ‘way….
@ Edgar G.:
There have been numerous remarks , I do not want to dwell on it. I do not believe he is Linda Sarsour or Farrakhan but his comments about Jews when he does not like what they say have a pattern to it of low level bigotry.
Clearly you should feel however you feel. My irritation with him his purely over these remarks. I do not want to back a dredge up all the comments of which there several a few months ago. Then wise cracks about Israelis say Merry Christmas when Shaked diplomatically remarked about Trumps withdrawal from Syria. Chuck Schumer should go celebrate his holiday whatever it is called. There is a pattern there.
I would be happy to avoid the person.
Happy New Year by the Way!!
@ Ted Belman:
Excuse me for butting in (a bad habit of mine) Ted; there s nothing wrong in “generalizing” in appropriate circumstances, when the context is not exclusively directed. You and Bear differ. That’s O.K. too. I have my own “differs”…
If you refer to the “you Jews” remark, then you and Bear have both over-reacted to a simple phrase which actually describes what we are..Jews -as distinct from Michael, a Christian.. He was been laudatory, and generalizing too, as all Jews are not “long-term thinkers”.. He could have expressed it several ways but this was the simplest.
You are being ULTRA politically correct.. which to me is a pile of harmful rubbish…we are still counting the immense cost of this stupid twisting of people’s thoughts and utterances into one shape, to suit EVERYBODY’s awakened insult “barometer”, an impossible task… and also a thin wedge of Globalism….in my opinion
Michael is NOT.. not in any way an Anti-Semite,, or even slightly, like so many Goyim are, who profess endless love for the Jewish People.
I would have no hesitation in saying to Michael…you Christians are etc”.and would be surprised if I have not already. He’d take no offence…..I refer to black Africans as “negroes” and being part of the Negroid grouping, that is the correct appellation.. There are also Caucasoids and Mongoloids..etc.
They themselves never saw anything wrong with it, until stirred up by agitators who had other axes to grind and used them to help it along.
If the “you Jews” comment s not the focus of your castigation , please accept my apology for intruding in what seems to be a “correctional” interlude .
@ Bear Klein: All excellent points, Bear
@ yamit82:
Amazing!
@ Bear Klein:
I was stationed for a year at Ft Eustis Va, One day while in the commissary a civilian worker was staring at me intently finally he asked if I was Jewish I nodded in assent. He kept staring at my eyes wide open so I asked what the hell he was staring at? He asked then where are your horns… I said on my ass want to see them? He ran out of the building in like the road runner. 🙂 🙂
Hate crimes in New York, 2018: Jews targeted more than all other groups combined
183 anti-Semitic incidents reported — a rise of 22 percent on 2017; anti-Muslim incidents fall by nearly half
https://www.timesofisrael.com/hate-crimes-in-new-york-2018-jews-targeted-more-than-all-other-groups-combined/
New York saw more hate crimes against Jews in 2018 than all other targeted groups combined, according to police figures.
@ yamit82:
Yamit said:
You are on the mark on your comment.
Antisemitism or Jew hatred so ingrained that some people think they need to be actually physically attacking Jews to be antiSemitic. They think it normal to make snide remarks about Jewish Holidays or Jewish Jokes when a Jew says something they do not like.
My parents escaped the Holocaust to the Dominican Republic (where I was born). My father told me a story that he was doing some business in a village in the mountains of the Dom. Rep. and told a man he met that he was Jewish. The man responded to my father that no you are not Jewish. What do you mean I am not Jewish, I just told you I am. The response was you can not be Jewish you do not have a horn growing out of your head.
So this middle ages anti-Semitic caricature coming of Christianity was alive and believed in the Dom. Rep. in the 20th Century. I have had many personal experiences blatant nasty Jewish cracks over the years towards me. When I was young a couple of times my response humiliating the wise cracker by beating them up.
I usually just try and ignore people like this that I run across. They believe their own bigotry and rationalize it and not much one can do about it.
The Best only answer is the State of Israel.
Bear Klein Said:
What nobody talks about especially the Jews in Pittsburg is that ‘Squirrel Hill’ has long been called by Jew Hating Gentiles Of all stripes as ‘KIKE HILL’ Since Jew hatred now out in the open and socially acceptable in society at large and especially in churches, media and academia massacre in Pittsburg could have not only been anticipated but predicted, I think more incidents like Pittsburg can now be expected…The reaction of the general American society and most of the media was very muted compared to other mass killings of Blacks homos and Hispanics….. Jews vilified Trump more than the shooter and what he stands for/
@ Michael S:
When I took you to task for generalizing, you had no idea what I was talking about. Now Bear has done the same. I tried to explain what you said was inappropriate. Yet you refused to learn and internalize what I was drawing to you attention. Its in your interest to do so.
@ Bear Klein:
Bear,
I don’t want to pander to your identity politics, and your sense of victimhood. Even so, let me generalize about you as a “Jew” — something you speak so pointedly against, yet something you seem to demand others recognize in you: You are Jew. You have some 2000 years of history of bad stuff behind you. I have advice for you: put it behind you, and leave it there.
Then, I hope you will consider whom you are talking to. I am a supporter of Donald Trump. I voted for him. What’s more, I’m a white male over 70, which means I am targeted as “one of them”, even by people who do not know me. I have been called “deplorable”, “racist”, “stupid”, “Fascist” and a “Nazi” over and over and over and over and over and overand over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again — not 75 years ago, but every hour of every day for the past two years on the Internet,
Have I made my point?
There has been a precipitous rise in anti-Semitism globally where extremists have openly targeted Jews — and there has been a global denial. Pundits and politicians imbued with their own sense of self-righteousness wrap themselves in cocoons convinced that anti-Semitism is not “their” problem.
The double standard of how Jews are treated is pervasive. Millionaires and billionaires of all faiths support liberal and conservative causes, but it is the Jews who are singled out for special attention. George Soros is referred to as “that liberal Jew,” and Sheldon Adelson as “that right-wing Jew.” When politicians repeat lies about Jewish people and deny the Holocaust, Jews are supposed to buck up and “stop playing the Jew card.” A constant about anti-Semitism is that “soft bigotry” has gotten a pass for far too long.
And while we need to make clear that anti-Semitism has reached new heights with the recent mass shooting in a Pittsburgh synagogue, it is also important to look at how acceptance of anti-Semitic attitudes across ideologies is to blame for the atmosphere that led to this tragedy.
@ Ted Belman:
Skepticism about future events or coups is logical. Take this bit of information
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/11/17/egypts-coup-is-first-in-2013-as-takeovers-become-less-common-worldwide/
@ Bear Klein:
Bear, you’re chasing phantoms. Stop trying to call me an antiSemite. If you disagree with me about something substantive, debate me. If you jsut want to smear me, KEEP YOUR BIG MOUTH SHUT.
PS. I lost relatives at Auschwitz. Mind your manners.
@ Michael S: You said:
You periodically keep making these disparaging generalizing remarks about Jews. I guess you think it is okay. Is that how you were raised or the people you hang around with make you believe it is okay?