Move is part of administration’s peace plan expected to be unveiled after embassy relocation.
BY Yanir Cozin/Maariv Hashavua, JPOST
The Trump administration will ask Israel to withdraw from four Arab neighborhoods in east Jerusalem, which will likely become the capital of a future Palestinian state, US officials told Defense Minister Avigdor Liberman during his visit to Washington last week.
The transfer of control over the neighborhoods – Jebl Mukabar, Isawiya, Shuafat and Abu Dis – was presented to Liberman as just one piece of the larger peace plan the administration has been working on over the last year. Israel, the officials indicated, would be expected to accept the plan once it is presented despite the potentially painful concessions.
News of the demand come less than two weeks before the US Embassy officially moves to Jerusalem on May 14.
The full plan is expected to be unveiled shortly after the embassy moves.
US officials categorically denied the report, speaking to The Jerusalem Post. President Donald Trump’s plan has not yet been completed but has entered its final stages of development.
During his visit to Washington, Liberman met with Jared Kushner, Trump’s son-in-law and senior adviser, National Security Adviser John Bolton, Secretary of Defense James Mattis, and the president’s Middle East envoy, Jason Greenblatt.
“We do not comment on the content of the minister’s meetings,” Liberman’s office said in response to the report.
Kushner and Greenblatt have been working on a peace plan together with US Ambassador to Israel David Friedman for the last year, and few details have leaked out.
Alongside the concessions expected of Israel, the administration has promised its full support in the event of a widespread conflict with Iran or Syria. The administration has told Israel it would supply the IDF with significant support, including advanced weaponry, if a war broke out with Iran, even one instigated by Israeli action against Iran’s presence in Syria.
Last month, PA President Mahmoud Abbas said the Palestinians will not accept any US plan to resolve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
“We honestly will not wait for anything from them, and we will not accept anything from them,” Abbas said at a conference in Ramallah last month.
Michael Wilner contributed to this report.
Nationalism is an important factor in life but it is an inadequate concept at the same time because the capitalist system has dragged humanity out of feudalism and has created a world market. That has to be remembered at all times to see a way forward.
From Joseph Nedava’s “Trotsky and the Jews,” this quotation from a letter written by Trotsky to a friend:
Trotsky
nevertired of stressing his
internationalism.
He assuresus
that
he had no qualms in choosing between Jewishness and
con-
cern
for mankind. He had wholeheartedly sided
with
the
underdog
from
whatever
people,
and he
would
not
permit
Jewish
parochial-
ism
to warp his
“universal judgment.”
Whenever it
appeared
to him
that
his Jewishcommitment,by
virtue
of thesheer circumstance
of
birth,
was
antithetical
to his profound social
consciousness,
he
did
not for a moment hesitate to discard the
former.
“In my
mental
equipment,”
he
wrote
in his
autobiography,
“na-
tionalitynever
occupied
anindependent
place,
as it was
felt
little
in
everyday
life
…
it was
lost
among
all
other
phases of
social
injustice.
Itnever
played
a
leading
part,
not
even
arecognizedone
in mylistof
grievances.”
30
Not, in my opinion, the view of a proud and patrio0tic Jew. There is never a contradiction, in real life, between defense of the rights of the Jewish people and defense of the “underdog.” We Jews have always been underdogs.
@ Felix Quigley:Not everything in Joseph Nedava’s book “Trotsky and the Jews’ is complimentary to Trotsky. He points out that Trotsky repeatedly denied, in his published works, that he knew the Yiddish language, but on one or two occasions he admitted that he “knew it well.” Nevada quotes an unnamed Viennese journalist who knew Trotsky in Vienna as having told him (Nedava) that
@ adamdalgliesh:
Their talk about “revolutionary defensism” is a cover for extreme reaction, a cover for them doing nothing to defend the Jewish people in the Holocaust. As clear as clear can be!
You need a doctorate and unlimited time to examine these groups.
They seem to be an opposition to an opposition. But in general terms they can be placed…
New Left Review I/224, July-August 1997
NORMAN GERAS
MARXISTS BEFORE THE HOLOCAUST
(Note from me…here Geras is in a way breaking new ground and this position brought down on his head the anger of some real friends of his)
“I shall begin here from an astonishing fact. In December 1938, in an appeal to American Jews, Leon Trotsky in a certain manner predicted the impending Jewish catastrophe. Here is what he wrote: ‘It is possible to imagine without difficulty what awaits the Jews at the mere outbreak of the future world war. But even without war the next development of world reaction signifies with certainty the physical extermination of the Jews.’ [1] This was just a few weeks after Kristallnacht and it was one month before Hitler’s famous Reichstag speech of 30 January 1939 in which he ‘prophesied’ the annihilation of European Jewry in the event of a world war.”
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Norman Geras’s Political Thought from Marxism to Human Rights: Controversy …
By Mark Cowling
Was the Holocaust unique? Tied up in knots, Cowley gets tied up in knots very quickly / Better to ask “What was the Holocaust of the Jews”? Leads into the question as to what is Antisemitism?
How can socialists or communists stand aside from this whole general question?
There is a subsidiary question which is did Trotsky stand aside? The answeer is a definite no and so a moment of reflection will show why these present antisemites involved in BLM and so on simply have hidden the actual statements by Trotsky of that time, especially from 1935 to 1940.
It is my opinion that the issue of Judaism must be confronted. For a very long time, inside of persecution, Jews relied on their religion Judaism. Their rights to be Jews, and with it religious feeling, has to be defended unconditionally.
The group in the resolution in not mentioning the Holocaust then underway have to be condemned in the strongest possible manner. They are covering their antisemitism by left sounding crap about the ruling class and so on. In the reality of life they are proving traitors to socialism and are on the side of the oppressing Fascists. Stalinism was always a very reactionary current. Stalinism rose in the fight against Lenin (it is thought Stalin poisoned Lenin because Lenin in sickness was turning on him) and then of course all out conflict with Trotsky and his followers, which were substantial, meaning Stalin had to conduct his war “bit by bit”
A feature of Stalinism was that they often used the WORDS of revolution, especially the WORDS of the 1917 Revolution, but in essence doing very different. This feature is very long lasting. I have seen it time and time again. Trotsky went into some detail in analysing the May 24 attack on his house in Mexico. Mercader and his Mother all working on an elaborate GPU plot had a “Testament” written by the GPU to the effect that it was internal division in the Trotskysit movement.
It is the same with this group. They are shouting so loud against capitalism etcetera. but this is only a cover for them doing nothing to defend the Jews in the Holocaust.
Even though there is only 6 or 7 years intervening there is a sharp contrast with what Trotsky was saying about Jews and the danger they were in, and what this group is putting forward.
I keep to this as a possible explanation…The leadership had been battered and by 1940 with the murder of Trotsky totally eliminated. Not just Trotsky, a cadre was eliminated. (Cadre is a French word for close leadership with an aspect of independent thinking in its makeup)
@ adamdalgliesh:
Sadly you suffer very much from dogmatism and you flounder about with lengthy quotations which are as far as I can judge irrelevant and quite boring.
I keep repeating the essence of the issue is fairly simple.
Karl Marx was NOT an antisemitic, that is a lie and a slander. He was studying the development of the capitalist system and one of the issues was the role that Jews played. It is not a condemnation in any way.
If Marx had been an antisemitic in any way, even the slightest way, then he could not have fought for Jewish political rights in Prussia. This part of Marx is very easy to understand.
So to get a handle on where Lenin, Trotsky and the Bolsheviks stood get a handle on the Civil War. They were fighting the Whites, the Whites were total Jew Haters, Trotsky made antisemitism a capital offense, the Bolsheviks fought against Antisemitism in the Civil War and the White Leaders went on to become part of the Nazis in Germany..
Zionism it must be said is a different category. The Bolsheviks following from Marx and Engels opposed in some ways all nationalisms, not just Jewish (Zionism)
Above all qualities which Trotsky had was that he was never a dogmatist. Established positions were important but he would think over things and change.
This is the essence of his writings in the 1930s if you care to investigate. Werner Cohn acknowledges this very point but he does so in a very weak manner.
Dangers set in in the very early forties especially in the revisionism of Trotsky by Mandel who went in the opposite direction to the direction Trotsky was going before the murder
But it was also Klement, Wolff, and innumerable leading members including the key one Leon Sedov, son in Paris of Leon Trotsky and Natalia in the horrific revenge of Stalin.
In short a leadership was indeed wiped out by Stalinism in those years. Trotsky of course was the key one and the greatest possible loss.
There ARE Jewish historians who have dealt with these matters more fairly
One of these is Joseph Nedava and another is Norman Geras, sometimes called Trotskyist but definitely not. There are others too but small in number. It is hard because it requires reading.
Under Trotsky in the 1930s there was a flowering of theory on this very subject but that was wiped out by the murderer Mercader.
I have however nothing but contempt for your positions on this, you do not set out to discover, you set out to prove, and you inflict on the reader huge chunks of text which are not relevant. Werner Cohn admits that after Trotsky was murdered his positions were changed, then proceeds to blame Trotsky anyway. How about putting the blame where it belonged on Stalin and Stalinism.
@ Felix Quigley:
Here is a document concerning the opposition of the Trotskyist movement to the Allies in World War II, and the advocacy of many of them of neutrality as between the fascist powers and the Allies. The Trotskyists did not take a strong and uncompromising stand against fascism during World War II. Instead, they regarded it as an imperialist war on both sides.
Have you heard about my Early Companions ?@ Felix Quigley:
Felix, here is Werner Cohn’s article about his youthful friendship with Trotsky and the anti-semitism of the post-Trotsky Trotskyists. Cohn wrote this shortly before his death, when he was over 90 years of age, just as you predicted he would have to have been in order to have known Trotsky and lived to write about him fairly recently.
FAKE NEWS!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.jewishpress.com/news/israel/reports-on-trumps-peace-plan-fake-news/2018/05/04/
@ Buzz of the Orient:
Somebody needs to take this seriously and explain why it is that Ivanka and Kushner are orthodox Jews and yet they are slashing Jerusalem. What is going on here?
But you are right. The paucity of the Trump agenda in the face of Fascism on two fronts at least, the Fascism of the “me too” outlook, and the Fascism that comes from Hajj Amin el Husseini is most dangerous.
Trump follows the old American philosophical method of making deals as he goes along. It is called in philosophical books “pragmatism” and is a real category.
Trump can struggle on, and using this philosophy can score some victories, soem defeats from which he will zigzag, but the whole capitalist system is too complicated today and too rotting. Everything is in motion. Hegel was an idealist but he understood dialectics. Marx came and took his dialectics but placed dialectics in the real world, out of the mind of Hegel into the real world. Marx explained the capitalist system
In one real way, and this applies also to Lenin and Trotsky, and to me, Marx reached for the whole, whereas Trump goes from deal to deal, seeing only the partial, and the partial is turning into temporary fixes, and these fixes as in Jerusalem rules out category, such as that the struggle of Islam is to destroy all Jews and Christians.
200 years today since the birth of Karl Marx.
@ adamdalgliesh:
You are talking complete rubbish! If friendly with Trotsky in 1930 that would make them then 20, nearly 90 years have passed to today, that would leave them 110 years old.
Read Jordan Peterson. Naturally I oppose him on some things but he is right about “categories” and I am tracing this to the growth of Fascism in society especially in the America Trump haters and me too movement.
Your stupidity leads you on the same path.
“Stupid is what stupid does!”
Give up ANY part of Jerusalem and turn the rest into an International City. After a whole bloody YEAR of trying to put together a solution this is what they come up with? Obviously those people are being paid by the hour or else they are so incompetent that they belong in an asylum.. My view on this – look to the psalm:
“Should I forget thee, O Jerusalem, may my right hand wither and my tongue cleave to the roof of my mouth.”
If I were capable of reimposing that curse to be effectiver I would sure as hell do so.
I wonder how Ivanka will feel about her husband when his right hand has withered and his tongue cleaved to the roof of his mouth.
The only legacy that Trotsky left behind that has any connection with Israel is the Trotskyist movement, which is 100 percent anti-Israel and antisemitic. Even someone ( I forget his name) who was a personal friend of Trotsky in the 1930s , and a member of his movement at that time, confirms that the present-day Trotskyist movement is both anti-Israel and antisemitic. His article on the subject is available on the web. Don’t believe anything you read on Trotskyist.org
Great African Rift divides the Jews land from the Muslim Land.@ Edgar G.:
@ Bear Klein:
Personally, I believe that we should stop mentioning the so-called “Palestinians” at all, in ANY context, except maybe, 50 years down the road, in a history lesson in schools, as an example, where the Israeli govt. under Rabin had a sort of mental collapse and did strange things.damaging to the State.
I read this report last night on Arutz, and it added that Old Jerusalem was to be an INTERNATIONAL entity….. Trump should be told quietly and politely, friend to friend, that this cannot be done, that Jerusalem is just not a piece of rral Estate to be bought and sold, that there would be Civil War, and the govt. would fall; thav there would be internal chaos for the next 20 years. with govts elected and falling like ninepins. Refer him to the San Remo and Anglo-American Treaties and show him how \much Israel has already given up to these obscene murderers.
My response to this is one of complete contempt. I am speaking here as a marxist on the eve of 200 years since the birth of Karl Marx. I have just finished writing an article on how the liars, professional liars, of Stalinism were in the killing business in 1940. If interested it is on trotskyist.org
These people do not think in terms of thpught categories and Peterson says something about this. I am interested in this thought process. It is a form of thought well recognised as very prominent in America called by the philosophical term “pragmatism”.
I am more interested in what to do and how to proceed in the face of this.
Does it not also show what a pipedream the Ted thing about Jordan really is. The Americans are intent on carving this Palestine State crapology out of tiny Israel.
Netanyahu better speak and pretty damm fast.
As I wrote this morning…Trump is threatened by Fascism, the me toos and all that madness, and he operates like a tinker horse dealer at a fair. Learn the category of Fascism or you fail.
You cannot escape in our period the hard fought for gains made by Leon Trotsky. If you take a “turn up your nose” attitude you are truly lost.
We are all being squeezed. Keep your head. Come up with a strategy.
Since the Palestinians have rejected the plan outright Israel should be saved from telling the USA no.
Bibi should be saying in the abscence of a negotiating partner we plan to apply Israeli law to all Jewish Towns in Judea/Samaria plus will be building without restriction.
What kind of friend would pressure a country to give land away to the enemy?
Has Trump lost his marbles?
Why is he still kissing Arab asses?
Why can’t he be a real friend?
Israel should ask US to withdraw from California and give it to Mexico.