Trump backs Israel’s claims in ‘West Bank’ and East Jerusalem

T. Belman. The author was the originator of the Jordan is Palestine Option almost 40 years ago. We both agreed that Jordan is Palestine.  He has always envisioned Jordan and Israel redrawing the border whereas we have always insisted that the border remain as is.  It is unlikely that King Abdullah would agree to Jordan becoming Palestine but Mudar Zahran would.

Trump has seemingly anointed Jordan to replace the rejectionist Palestine Liberation Organization as Israel’s negotiating partner on the future of the ‘West Bank’ and East Jerusalem.

By David Singer, INN

US Ambassador to Israel – David Friedman – has set a cat among the pigeons with his claim that:

“Under certain circumstances I think Israel has the right to retain some, but unlikely all, of the ‘West Bank’.”

Friedman clearly was speaking for the Trump administration – not just himself personally – when he continued:

“We really don’t have a view until we understand how much, on what terms, why does it make sense, why is it good for Israel, why is it good for the region, why does it not create more problems than it solves. These are all things that we’d want to understand, and I don’t want to prejudge.”

Friedman accused the Obama administration – which in the last month of Obama’s Presidency – allowed passage of a United Nations resolution in December 2016 condemning Israeli “settlements” as a “flagrant violation” of international law, of giving credence to spurious Palestinian Arab arguments “that the entire ‘West Bank’ (aka biblical Judea and Samaria) and East Jerusalem belong to them.”

Friedman asserted: “Certainly Israel’s entitled to retain some portion of it”

Friedman was spot on.

The right of the Jewish people to reconstitute the Jewish National Home in parts or all of the ‘West Bank’ and East Jerusalem was recognized by:

  • the 1920 San Remo Conference
  • the 1920 Treaty of Sevres,
  • articles 6 and 25 of the 1922 League of Nations Mandate for Palestine (Mandate) and
  • article 80 of the 1945 United Nations Charter

Friedman’s criticism of the  United Nations attempt to subvert the Jewish peoples’ legal rights created under the Mandate and preserved under the United Nations’ own Charter to “close settlement by Jews on the land including State lands and waste land not required for public purposes” located in the ‘West Bank’ and East Jerusalem – was justified and long overdue.

Friedman postulated:

“The absolute last thing the world needs is a failed Palestinian state between Israel and Jordan,”

He could have also added that:

  • Jordan is a Palestinian Arab state that has occupied 78% of the land comprised in the Mandate for Palestine since 1922
  • Redrawing the international boundary between Jordan and Israel in direct negotiations between those two states as successor States to the Mandate could see parts of the ‘West Bank’ and East Jerusalem incorporated within each of these two existing states thereby eliminating any danger a failed third state would pose to their security and existence.

Interestingly – Friedman indicated that Trump’s long awaited “deal of the century” might not even be released if Trump believed it would do more harm than good.

Friedman reportedly said the United States would coordinate closely with Jordan – which could face unrest among its large Palestinian Arab population over a plan perceived as overly favourable to Israel.

“We don’t want to make things worse. Our goal is not to show how smart we are at the expense of people’s safety.”

Trump has seemingly anointed Jordan to replace the rejectionist Palestine Liberation Organization as Israel’s negotiating partner on the future of the ‘West Bank’ and East Jerusalem.

It now appears that Trump’s proposals will not see the light of day unless Trump receives an unqualified assurance from Jordan that it is willing to negotiate with Israel before the plan’s details are released.

Recognizing Israel has claims in the ‘West Bank’ and East Jerusalem sends a clear signal to Jordan and the rest of the Arab World that time is not on their side. The opportunity to yet again miss another opportunity to make peace looms large.

Trump has targeted the ‘West Bank’ and East Jerusalem – as he already has in West Jerusalem and the Golan Heights – with amazing prescience.

Dry Bones-David Friedman

Author’s note: The cartoon — commissioned exclusively for this article — is by Yaakov Kirschen aka “Dry Bones”- one of Israel’s foremost political and social commentators — whose cartoons have graced the columns of Israeli and international media publications for decades. His cartoons can be viewed at Drybonesblog

June 15, 2019 | 51 Comments »

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  1. The King in Jordan allows the Muslim Brotherhood to function legally and they are part of the Parliament. The Pal-Arab Muslim Brotherhood is know as the Hamas terrorists.

    With the PA currently the IDF and Shin Bet (ISA or Israeli version of FBI counter terrorism organization) cooperate with the PA security forces to almost nightly catch wanted terrorists. Israel has an agreement with the PA where at night into goes into PA areas A (cities such as Nablus, Hebron, Ramallah…….) and catches terrorists. Many of these terrorists are Hamas members or working with them.

    The Shin Bet then interrogates these terrorists and finds out about more terror cells or the locations of other wanted terrorists. They then plan out how to catch these terrorists. This is an important element in the battle against Hamas and other terrorists. If Israel were to allow Jordanians into Area A then it is logical they would not allow this arrangement. It is especially logically since the King and Hamas have a mutual understanding to co-exist.

    So yes it would be nice if Jordan gave back Jordanian Citizenship it revoked to the Pal-Arabs of Jerusalem, Judea and Samaria plus allowed them to move to Jordan if they wish. Especially nice if cities were built to encourage them to move to Jordan. However the King is dead set against this. So he is of no constructive use to Israel in Judea/Samaria in fact a serious impediment to security.

    Ted, believes Mudar Zahran would be more cooperative with Israel. If he ever comes to power in Jordan we will find out if this is so and for how long he can stay in power in the event this ever occurs.

    So Israel needs to rely on itself to solve its own problems as of now and likely in the future.

  2. @ david singer:
    David you make a good point but yet my point still stands. Israel has to have a new leadership first and foremost. In a situation say for argument that Jordan is being overrun by ISIS situation then I expect all including Israel to defend their present government just as I called for defense of Assad. (Do you see a situation where Abdullah would be defended?) Trotsky and Lenin post 1917 made all kinds of agreements because they like Israel were fighting in dire situations. So cannot be dismissed. But the position of the Jews is not normal, it is beyond normal. Do not get hung up on one agreement but be prepared in this case to make war, on the PLO and its offspring Hamas and Hizbullah. Sign treaties yes but action first and foremost. And nothing underhand or hidden. Spell out everything to the world.

  3. Al-monitor states part of Trumps plan is to raze the refugee camps and replace them with modern towns/cities for refugees. So 60 million remain as refuse on a free ticket. Wonder who gets the building contracts? Who supplies service’s?

  4. Felix Quigley Said:

    The error of David Singer and some others is that the believe that conflict would be solved and problems gone by signing another piece of paper, in this case with the King Abdullah II. This thinking shows flawed understanding of the problem and no understanding of the actually way to improve the situation and perhaps have peace in the very far future.

    Israel signed a piece of paper with Egypt in 1979 and one with Jordan in 1994 and there has been no conflict between Israel and these two Arab states since their execution. Signing pieces of paper can and has advanced peace between Jews and Arabs. If Jordan does not want to sign up again to the allocation of sovereignty of the West Bank between Jordan and Israel , then unilateral action by Israel after 25 years of negotiations going nowhere with the PLO could be expected.

  5. Three cheers for Bear Klein, or two and a half anyways

    In spite of my differences with Bear Klein I find these positions very valuable. In general people move themselves to take action when the necessity forces them to. I repeat “ONLY THEN”! This was the case with the Russian Revolution. Lenin did not “will” it and did not create it. The workers and peasants moved when they could take no more. But Lenin did “imagine” that it would be thus at a certain point. The big worry is that the Israeli leaders, in spite of Shaked, do not act boldly when the moment comes.

    In-spite of your beliefs, what is likely that Israel will take unilateral actions. Such as Israeli Law applied to some or all of Area C. Areas A & B will continue to be run autonomously as long as the security cooperation does not break down. If it breaks down all bets are off and one of the several paradigms the right discusses will be implemented or attempt to be implemented. At that point Israel will take forceful military actions that will reverse Oslo. Exactly what will happen I do not know because there are several ideas but no consensus.

    Israel will not allow the King of Jordan or his troops back into Judea/Samaria including in areas A & B. The King controls nothing west of the Jordan and does not nor can he speak for anyone west of the Jordan.

    You quote Trump and his people when it fits your illusion of Jordan solving Israel’s problems via negotiations. They have also said they will not force another leadership on the PA.

    Israel is going to maintain security up to the River Jordan unless someone is capable of militarily defeating it. On this their consensus with all the Zionist Political parties except Meretz which represents only a small segment of the population (~4%). Calling them Zionist might also be a misnomer.

    AND

    Several Likud members indicated that applying Israeli Civil Law to Judea/Samaria areas was the right thing to do.

    Shaked: Former Justice Minister says, Now is the time for Israel to annex Area C of Judea & Samaria.

    This occurred a couple of days ago at the Jerusalem Post Conference in NY.

    The PA is liable to implode or explode in the near future from a combination of internal pressures, lack of funds and terrorism which will blow up in their faces.
    Israel should then take the opportunity to take full control of Areas A plus B and reverse the Oslo process. This would be the right time to start facilitating the voluntary emigration of Pal-Arabs from Judea/Samaria.

    AND

    The error of David Singer and some others is that the believe that conflict would be solved and problems gone by signing another piece of paper, in this case with the King Abdullah II. This thinking shows flawed understanding of the problem and no understanding of the actually way to improve the situation and perhaps have peace in the very far future.

  6. @ david singer:

    This Netanyahu statement…which I missed….has everything clearly in place. Nothing more direct and accurate can be said….except; …

    WE WILL NOT ALLOW AN ARAB STATE ON OUR ANCESTRAL, AND LEGALLY OWNED (BY THE JEWISH PEOPLE), TERRITORY.

  7. @ david singer:

    They can’t even control the large Arab infiltration into Area C, which now, since Bennett brought it up 2-3 years ago has an illegal Arab mob of about 120,000, up from the 10,000 that Bennett estimated.

    Complete with EU ‘blazoned large prefab buildings… No one has yet explained how these large items managed to get into, and be erected on their bases.without scrutiny..

    Perhaps Mr. Singer has the answer….?

  8. Victory is the correct concept.

    In order to achieve actual victory one must destroy PA/PLO, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, etc and supporting terrorists.

    1. Apply Israeli Civil Law to all of Area C, including the Jewish Towns and Jordan Valley.

    State that Israel reserves the right to apply Israeli Civil Law to anywhere else in Judea/Samaria.

    2. Build in all of Judea and.Samaria. Focus on E1, the Jordan Valley, Gush Etzion to start.

    3. After destroying the terrorist groups. Take over and administer the Arab PA Cities and surrounding villages. Any villages or cities that turn violent will be closed off and workers will not be allowed to exit to work in Israel.

    4. Form an NGO to buy Palestinian Properties in Jerusalem and elsewhere in Judea/Samaria starting with Area C in villages next to Jewish Towns. Resell these properties to Jews and recycle the money to buy more Arab owned properties.

    5. Form a different NGO to help Arabs quickly move to other countries. Provide financial incentives to help them go. Make sure they receive their funds when it is confirmed they are leaving.

    6. Residency for Arabs in new areas where Israeli Civil Law is applied shall only be possible after a vetting process which determines they are not a security risk.
    They will need to demonstrate loyalty to the Jewish Democratic State of Israel.
    This will require learning Hebrew; your children will be required to provide civil national service at age 18 to 20.

    Arab residents will be required to inform on anyone planning terrorist acts including family members. This will be a condition of residency!

  9. The Pal-Arabs are Muslims who for 100 plus years have tried to drive the Jews out of the Land of Israel. They have been offered a state numerous times but refused because this is not a border war of the border over 10 meters more or less. They want to drive the Jews out of all of Israel and not just Judea/Samaria. So this makes the conflict a zero-sum conflict. There can be only one winner and one loser.

    Islamic War against Israel
    In addition to the war against Jews, there is a separate religious conflict the PA preaches against Israel that is defined as Ribat, an uncompromising Islamic obligation to defend or liberate land said to be Islamic. Israel is considered to be Islamic land that must be liberated for Allah.

    Mahmoud Abbas’ advisor on Religious and Islamic Affairs and the Palestinian Authority’s Supreme Shari’ah Judge expressed this view in a speech:
    Al-Habbash emphasized that according to Islamic Shari’ah law, the entire land of Palestine (i.e., all of Israel) is waqf (i.e., an inalienable religious endowment in Islamic law) and is blessed land, and that it is prohibited to sell, bestow ownership or facilitate the occupation of even a millimeter of it.”
    [Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, Oct. 22, 2014]?

    Similarly, PA Chairman Abbas himself called on Palestinians to carry out Ribat at the Al-Aqsa Mosque. Abbas’ statement was broadcast 19 times in 3 days on official PA TV:
    “It’s not enough for us to say: ‘There are those carrying out Ribat’ (religious conflict / war over land claimed to be Islamic). We must all carry out Ribat in the Al-Aqsa [Mosque]. It’s not enough for us to say: ‘The settlers have arrived [at the Mosque]’. They have come, and they must not come to the Sanctuary (i.e., Temple Mount). We have to prevent them, in any way whatsoever, from entering the Sanctuary. This is our Sanctuary, our Al-Aqsa and our Church [of the Holy Sepulchre]. They have no right to enter it. They have no right to defile it. We must prevent them. Let us stand before them with chests bared to protect our holy places.”
    [Official PA TV, Oct. 17-19, 2014]

    PA schoolbooks likewise teach Palestinian children to view the conflict with Israel as Ribat, defined as: “An action related to Jihad for Allah, and it means: Being found in areas where there is a struggle between Muslims and their enemies.” [Islamic Education, grade 12, p. 86].

    Israel is stigmatized as “an enemy” existing on Islamic land and fighting Israel is part of a religious war for Islam. Palestinian youth are taught in school that their conflict with Israel is “one of the greatest of the Ribat, and they [Palestinians] are worthy of a great reward from Allah” and that Palestinians are “in Ribat until Resurrection.” [Ibid, pp.86-??87].

    Full article at http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=1061

  10. Ted Belman Said:

    Remember this, Every failure is a stepping stone to success.. You should be playing chess. Interpret everything as a step to achieve success rather than a failure.

    Ted:
    Bear seems incapable of learning this lesson. Perhaps it is because he has got all his facts wrong as I have been pointing out. I think it is fair to say we agree on the facts but have adopted two different solutions to ending the Arab-Jewish conflict based on those agreed facts.

  11. Bear Klein Said:

    The King does not want to do this and the Americans say no one is doing this on behalf of the PA. Also the PA does not want this and discussions would not change the terrorist behavior of all the Pal-Arab organizations.

    The PA – the creation of the Oslo Accords – was disbanded on 3 January 2013 by Mahmoud Abbas and replaced by the fictitious “State of Palestine”. Abbas has to live with the consequences of this decision. Pretending it didn’t happen is burying your head in the sand.
    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/the-state-of-palestine-ex_b_2431690

  12. Bear Klein Said:

    No Israeli leader is walking around saying oh please let us bring the Jordanians back and talk to the King and reopen the discussions with the King so we can change one set of problems for two sets of problems

    Netanyahu has been saying it since 1984. You need to listen and heed.
    “Clearly, in Eastern and Western Palestine, there are only two peoples, the Arabs and the Jews. Just as clearly, there are only two states in that area, Jordan and Israel. The Arab State of Jordan, containing some three million Arabs, does not allow a single Jew to live there. It also contains 4/5 of the territory originally allocated by this body’s predecessor, the League of Nations, for the Jewish National Home. The other State, Israel, has a population of over four million, of which one sixth is Arab. It contains less than 1/5 of the territory originally allocated to the Jews under the Mandate…. It cannot be said, therefore, that the Arabs of Palestine are lacking a state of their own. The demand for a second Palestinian Arab State in Western Palestine, and a 22nd Arab State in the world, is merely the latest attempt to push Israel back into the hopelessly vulnerable armistice lines of 1949.”

  13. @ Ted Belman:Please be more direct on what you mean. Even though I do not always agree with you in particular on Mudar, I am interested in what you are actually thinking.

  14. This discussion does not mean anything to me. Israel is very misdirected on so many fronts. The ruling Israeli, and they are capitalist, class have let down the Zionist revolution and return of the Jews.

    For example we have Adam wishing happiness to the “Palestinains” as these fakers perhaps pollute my country.

    Edgar made salutary points about Europe being lost to the Jihad but I saw no meeting of his concerns at all.

    We have had Bear Klein attacking the Chinese which was attacking the Islamists there.

    We have had Netanyahu siding with ISIS. Nor was he alone. Yamit had a partnership with another guy here and they made a whole pantomine of this line.

    On a general scale there is no leadership worthy of the name in Israel.

    People can argue for anything.

    Israel has to defeat Islam just as all the rest of us in countries like Ireland have to defeat Islam.

    But so crooked is your thinking Bear Klein that you could not see the tactical advantage of seeing that Assad would defeat ISIS.

    But here you are spouting and pouting and getting worse by the day.

    You have a record, and it is a record in the end of betrayal of the interests of the Jews, since there can always only in the main be one correct line.

    In other words you are bankrupt.

  15. Remember this, Every failure is a stepping stone to success.. You should be playing chess. Interpret everything as a step to achieve success rather than a failure.

  16. The error of David Singer and some others is that the believe that conflict would be solved and problems gone by signing another piece of paper, in this case with the King Abdullah II. This thinking shows flawed understanding of the problem and no understanding of the actually way to improve the situation and perhaps have peace in the very far future.

    The Golan Heights is Israel’s sovereign territory, in which has applied its civil laws to in 1981. I used to live in the Golan and can personally attest that is a very nice place (clean, good weather) and it is very safe because of the lack of Arabs living there, especially those dedicated to destroying Israel. When I lived on Kibbutz Afiq most people did not even lock their doors at night.

    Israel did NOT sign a piece of paper with anyone about the Golan or its former owner’s the Syrians. Yet it is peaceful and safe. Israel was victorious on the Golan Heights. The enemy that was there in 1967 fled. Yes mostly it was Syrian Army bases previously. A peace treaty with Syria about peace for peace but not peace for land would be desirable but not possible in the foreseeable future.

    Israel needs a total victory in Judea/Samaria were all the Pal-Arab elements with guns of any sort of weapon are vanquished. All terror elements destroyed and a program of assisting the voluntary emigration of large amounts of Pal-Arabs to other countries. This would lead to stability and peace in the very long run possibly.

    A piece of paper with the King of Jordan who hates Israel solves nothing (never mind he is not remotely interested in this). The problem is the enemy aliens living in Judea/Samaria want Israel destroyed.

    So the application of Israeli Civil Law in Area C to start helps because it will regulate property laws and disputes. It also signals to the enemy that they will not form a Pal-Arab state there. Taking away the hope that they will destroy Israel supplant it leads in the long run to more stability and the eventual possibility of peace. It also give the Israeli citizens living there the assurance of the permanence of their towns.

    The middle-east has a long history of wars and strong man rule. Israel will need to be both strong military and economically to keep growing and making our enemies realize they are not able to defeat it. The gulf states now cooperate with Israel because of mutual needs and are no longer at war with it. Almost not much difference between them and the two countries we have signed peace treaties with Egypt and Jordan. The differences are not significant enough to sign a piece paper about where Israel would be required to give up land and security control in regards to Jerusalem or Judea/Samaria.

    So no pieces of paper signed for land for peace. Peace for Peace treaties with mutual respected co-existence certainly be welcome but not so likely in the near future.

  17. The likely failure of the Trump plan, which even Jason Greenblatt is saying would not surprise him and he knows why. The US Administration will be blaming the PA for its failure. After its failure Israel should be applying its sovereignty to Area C of Judea/Samaria.

    Several Likud members indicated that applying Israeli Civil Law to Judea/Samaria areas was the right thing to do.

    Shaked: Former Justice Minister says, Now is the time for Israel to annex Area C of Judea & Samaria.

    This occurred a couple of days ago at the Jerusalem Post Conference in NY.

    The PA is liable to implode or explode in the near future from a combination of internal pressures, lack of funds and terrorism which will blow up in their faces.
    Israel should then take the opportunity to take full control of Areas A plus B and reverse the Oslo process. This would be the right time to start facilitating the voluntary emigration of Pal-Arabs from Judea/Samaria.

  18. @ david singer:We have had this debate before. You repeat yourself and this does not make the situation change. No Israeli leader is walking around saying oh please let us bring the Jordanians back and talk to the King and reopen the discussions with the King so we can change one set of problems for two sets of problems. The King does not want to do this and the Americans say no one is doing this on behalf of the PA. Also the PA does not want this and discussions would not change the terrorist behavior of all the Pal-Arab organizations.

    You make two assumptions that are faulty again and again. One that conflict would be resolved by discussions and two that the discussions will take place. I understand I will not change your mind. Hopefully it also self evident to you I do not believe in your premises. From my part I agree to disagree with you.

  19. @ Bear Klein:
    Wrong again Bear
    Article 3(2) of the Peace Treaty states:
    “The boundary, as set out in Annex I (a), is the permanent, secure and recognized international boundary between Jordan and Israel, without prejudice to the status of any territories that came under Israeli military government control in 1967.”

    Abbas himself declared in April 2018 that Palestinians and Jordanians are one people living in two countries during his speech at the 9th Bait Al-Maqdes Islamic International conference in Ramallah .

    The late PLO leader Yasser Arafat told Der Spiegel in 1986:

    “Jordanians and Palestinians are indeed one people. No one can divide us. We have the same fate.”

    The 8th meeting of the Palestinian National Council in February- March 1971 declared:

    “Jordan is linked to Palestine by a national relationship and a national unity forged by history and culture from the earliest times. The creation of one political entity in Transjordan and another in Palestine would have no basis either in legality or as to the elements universally accepted as fundamental to a political entity. .. In raising the slogan of the liberation of Palestine and presenting the problem of the Palestine revolution, it was not the intention of the Palestine revolution to separate the east of the River from the West, nor did it believe the struggle of the Palestinian people can be separated from the struggle of the masses in Jordan…”

    There will have to be negotiations to determine the status of the disputed territories if the Arab-Jewish conflict is to be resolved. The PLO want no further part in those negotiations. King Hussein might.

    Greenblatt’s comment raises – not erases – this distinct possibility

  20. @ Bear Klein: Bear, many of my comments have also disappeared over the past year or so, presumably going to trash or spam when I pressed the post button. And then there is the ominous “your comment is under moderation.” when that notice appears above your comment, you know it is unlikely to remain visible for long. I do not know the cause of this phenomenon. Ted says he doesn’t intentionally delete anything due to its content, except maybe in very extreme cases, like someone who uses obscenities to curse Israel, makes threats, etc.

  21. @ david singer:The authority is that the borders were drawn in the peace treaty. No one is saying they want to redraw the borders in fact they state that the Jordan Valley is important to Israel.

    Also since no third party is negotiating on behalf of the Palestinians as you falsely claimed (per Jason Greenblatt) and per the Palestinians and per the Jordanian’s the interest only stems from you.

  22. david singer Said:

    On what Israeli authority do you base your claim that “Israel wants the border as agreed to the Jordan River”?

    Certainly in redrawing a new border – Israel would demand to keep the Jordan Valley and the mountains of Samaria and would also want the area coming under Jordanian sovereignty to be demilitarized. But I am unaware of any statement by the current Government that Israel has no interest in redrawing the border.

    Please cite your authority.

    Bear – still waiting for your answer. Having trouble finding anyone to support your so far unsubstantiated claim?

  23. @ roamnrab:
    The demilitarized zone between North and South Korea has worked reasonably well. Israel would control access and ingress into any West Bank areas coming under Jordan’s sovereignty and prevent weapons coming in there from Jordan.

  24. Ted you are now censoring my comments? Why because Jason Greenblatt clearly said that one is going to negotiate on behalf of the Pals. You deleted one such comment and now going for two? If I am wrong and it was a machine error I apologize in advance.

  25. @ david singer:
    Jason Greenblatt has made crystal clear in his new article at cnn.com that no is going to negotiate on behalf of the Palestinain’s meaning the other Arab Countries including Jordan. Below in a cutout from the article Jason Greenblatt is referencing Saeb Erekat the PA/PLO negotiator.

    Saeb also is making claims that the Arab countries who are attending the workshop have no right to negotiate for the Palestinians. On that point, we agree. No one is suggesting that anyone other than the Palestinians have such a right. But those attending sincerely want to help the Palestinians. Why is Saeb manipulating their good intentions and pretending they are doing something nefarious? Those countries who are participating should be praised and thanked by Saeb and the Palestinian Authority

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/16/opinions/bahrain-workshop-palestinian-opportunity-opinion-greenblatt/index.html

  26. @ david singer:Jason Greenblatt says in article he penned in CNN.com that one else is going to negotiate politically on behalf of the Palestinians. To assist this means NOT JORDAN or any other Arabs. Clearly your conjecture was and is wrong.

    Saeb also is making claims that the Arab countries who are attending the workshop have no right to negotiate for the Palestinians. On that point, we agree. No one is suggesting that anyone other than the Palestinians have such a right. But those attending sincerely want to help the Palestinians. Why is Saeb manipulating their good intentions and pretending they are doing something nefarious? Those countries who are participating should be praised and thanked by Saeb and the Palestinian Authority.

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/16/opinions/bahrain-workshop-palestinian-opportunity-opinion-greenblatt/index.html

  27. @ david singer:
    The King of Jordan is a serious disruptive element currently with respect to the Temple Mount. All Israeli Authorities want the the IDF to have the ability to go anywhere in Judea/Samaria for security purposes.

    Logic and Sanity says Israel does NOT want to reintroduce Jordanian soldiers or authority into Israel. Israel fought very hard to get rid of Jordanian soldiers. Go visit Ammunition Hill next time in you visit Jerusalem from Australia. Israel lost 36 soldiers here in a battle with Jordan to get them out of their fortified positions in the 1967 war when Jerusalem and Judea /Samaria were liberated from Jordan.

    Israel recently had to make a major political maneuver to get its security guard back from its Embassy in Jordan. Jordan is full of anti-Semites. No one wants them back across the border which was negotiated between Jordan and Israel. Only David Singer is singing the King of Jordan is the solution to the conflict bring him back into Judea / Samaria and renegotiate the border.

    The King acts with animus towards Israel constantly and is not to be trusted. People are willing to allow Pal-Arabs to move to Jordan will the King let them? Why did he take away the Jordanian Citizenship of Arabs living in Judea/Samaria and Jerusalem?

    A potential solution or part of it is send Pal-Arabs Judea/Samaria to Jordan and NOT have Jordan become sovereign in the Land of Israel west of the Jordan River. Perhaps you are so vested in your Jordan Committee you will never see you are simply wrong.

  28. Israel would demand to keep the Jordan Valley and the mountains of Samaria and would also want the area coming under Jordanian sovereignty to be “DEMILITARIZED.”

    David,
    With all due respect- EVERYONE who knows anything about history KNOWS- that thee is NO SUCH REALITY! It NEVER WORKS!

    Think: Deutchland (Germany) pre 1938.

  29. @ Bear Klein:
    On what Israeli authority do you base your claim that “Israel wants the border as agreed to the Jordan River”?

    Certainly in redrawing a new border – Israel would demand to keep the Jordan Valley and the mountains of Samaria and would also want the area coming under Jordanian sovereignty to be demilitarized. But I am unaware of any statement by the current Government that Israel has no interest in redrawing the border.

    Please cite your authority.

  30. @ david singer:
    As we have discussed several times Israel has no interest in redrawing the border unless it is the two locations leased that they appear to want to take back now.

    Israel wants the border as agreed to the Jordan River. Israel wants and needs to keep the Jordan Valley and the mountains of Samaria.

  31. @ Bear Klein:
    Israel already has a peace treaty with Jordan. All these two states have to do is redraw the existing boundary between their two respective States. No further peace treaty is necessary.

  32. @ Wooly Mammoth:Actual I did NOT make forecast but reported what pollsters said. Which they were wrong. To refresh your memory

    Bear Klein
    August 21, 2016 at 5:38 pm

    Polls plus forecast as of today from 538.com (which is actually better for Trump than just the polls. Trump according this has a 25% chance of winning (which is a actually a possibility but not a strong one).

  33. I would not put too much stock in The Bear’s political forecasts.
    I do recall Bear making repeated forecasts of a Clinton victory in 2016.
    On the other hand, it was I who stated that Trump would win. What do I win?
    Bear’s contribution to Israpundit is profound and it should be respected.
    This next year should be eventful, for obvious reasons.
    Trump has his work cut out. Happy Birthday, Trump.
    Shalom Haverim

  34. @ david singer
    Israel needs no more peace treaties. It has a defacto peace with the Gulf Arab States currently because of mutual needs (more their’s than Israel’s). If Al-Sisi had not taken over Egypt the Muslim Brotherhood was in the early stages of walking from the peace treaty. Al-Sisi is a pragmatist and realizes it helps him to work with Israel on security and certain areas of commerce. Any peace treaty would require Israel to make some concessions and none that the Pal-Arabs would require would be acceptable to Israel. So no negotiations will solve the problem. Establishing facts on the ground and killing all Arab hope for a Palestinian State west of the Jordan Rivers will establish security and stability in the long run.

    In the long run this may require things like allowing the Arab population in significant numbers to emigrate and finding way to encourage such voluntary emigration from Judea/Samaria, eastern parts of Jerusalem and Gaza.

    No ONE in Israel of importance believes that any negotiations will result in peace.

  35. @ david singer:In-spite of your beliefs, what is likely that Israel will take unilateral actions. Such as Israeli Law applied to some or all of Area C. Areas A & B will continue to be run autonomously as long as the security cooperation does not break down. If it breaks down all bets are off and one of the several paradigms the right discusses will be implemented or attempt to be implemented. At that point Israel will take forceful military actions that will reverse Oslo. Exactly what will happen I do not know because there are several ideas but no consensus.

    Israel will not allow the King of Jordan or his troops back into Judea/Samaria including in areas A & B. The King controls nothing west of the Jordan and does not nor can he speak for anyone west of the Jordan.

    You quote Trump and his people when it fits your illusion of Jordan solving Israel’s problems via negotiations. They have also said they will not force another leadership on the PA.

    Israel is going to maintain security up to the River Jordan unless someone is capable of militarily defeating it. On this their consensus with all the Zionist Political parties except Meretz which represents only a small segment of the population (~4%). Calling them Zionist might also be a misnomer.

    You need a new set of Pharaoh Cards and make sure the one that says King of Jordan Solution is replaced with one that says only the People of Israel and their government can solve Israel’s problems.

  36. @ Bear Klein:
    Israel has unsuccessfully tried to negotiate with the PLO for the last 25 years for land west of the Jordan River. Are you suggesting there is any hope that a resumption of these negotiations has any chance of success?

    Negotiations between Israel and Jordan on the West Bank and East Jerusalem is the only option now available to advance any peace process to end the Arab-Jewish conflict.

    Ted believes Israel-Jordan negotiations can succeed if Zahran rules Jordan. I believe Zahran cannot succeed in his bid to replace Abdullah.

    The Trump administration has made its position clear: ” “King Abdullah & Jordan are strong US allies.” – as you yourself quoted Greenblatt as saying.

    Changes are coming – and direct negotiations between Israel and Jordan on land west of the Jordan River is increasingly looking very likely.

    The real pity is that this did not happen 40 years ago after the Jordan is Palestine Committee came on to the international scene to highlight Jordan’s status as a sovereign Arab State created on 77% of the territory delineated as “Palestine” for the first time in recorded history by the Mandate for Palestine.

    A lot of pain and suffering needlessly inflicted on both Jews and Arabs and the international community could have been avoided. President Trump seems determined to bring this ongoing and terrible situation to an end.

  37. I have been monitoring Zahran’s site every day. Around June 9 , his videos showed the Jordanian police cracking down hard on his supporters and crowding them into paddy wagons. His videos did not show the police arresting his supporters before June. Suddenly the situation changed. He has not posted any more videos in the past five days. For most blogs, nothing unusual there. But for the past two years, Zahran has succeeded in posting a video of an opposition demonstration or meeting almost daily.

    I think that the Kuwaiti newspaper that reported that Abdullah has purged his security services and the palace staff of opposition sympathizers and replaced them with loyalists is probably true. It looks like he has mounted the support he needs to crack down. For the time being, he is on the offensive, and the opposition is in a tight spot.

    I think that Zahran and other oppositionists were counting on the “infiltration” of the existing power structure–government officials and former officials, some army officers–by opposition sympathizers who were conspiring to oust Abdullah, to accomplish this task in the near future. But Abdullah’s crackdown and purge represents a serious setback for the opposition.

  38. Timing is NOW to Annex Area C of Judah/Samaria. Trump Administration is willing to go along with Israeli application of sovereignty in parts of Judea/Samaria. Israel as Shaked has said needs to take advantage of this. If Joe Biden becomes POTUS or even worse Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren the climate would not be so friendly towards Israel and the application of sovereignty in Judea/Samaria.

    NEW YORK – Jason Greenblatt, US President Donald Trump’s special envoy for international negotiations, said at the Jerusalem Post Annual Conference in New York that he agrees with the comments of Ambassador David Friedman, who said last week that Israel has the right to annex parts of the West Bank.

    “I support his comment,” Greenblatt said. “I will let David’s comment stand for itself.”

  39. @ Bear Klein: Good point, Bear.

    I have been monitoring Zahran’s site every day. Around June 9 , his videos showed the Jordanian police cracking down hard on his supporters and crowding them into paddy wagons. His videos did not show the police arresting his supporters before June. Suddenly the situation changed. He has not posted any more videos in the past five days. For most blogs, nothing unusual there. But for the past two years, Zahran has succeeded in posting a video of an opposition demonstration or meeting almost daily.

    I think that the Kuwaiti newspaper that reported that Abdullah has purged his security services and the palace staff of opposition sympathizers and replaced them with loyalists is probably true. It looks like he has mounted the support he needs to crack down. For the time being, he is on the offensive, and the opposition is in a tight spot.

    I think that Zahran and other oppositionists were counting on the “infiltration” of the existing power structure–government officials and former officials, some army officers–by opposition sympathizers who were conspiring to oust Abdullah, to accomplish this task in the near future. But Abdullah’s crackdown and purge represents a serious setback for the opposition.

  40. Shaked: Now is the time to annex Area C

    Ex-Justice Minister won’t rule out possible alliances on Right, says Israel must use of ‘window of opportunity’ to annex Judea & Samaria.

    Former Justice Minister Ayelet Shaked (New Right) urged the Israeli government to begin annexing Area C of Judea and Samaria, warning the country could miss a historic opportunity to do so if it pushed off annexation.

    Speaking at the annual Jerusalem Post conference in the Israeli capital, Shaked said that Israel had been presented with a unique “window of opportunity” in the Trump administration, and must not miss its chance to create “facts on the ground”.

    While Shaked expressed support for the White House’s plan to help develop the Palestinian Arab economy in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza, calling it a “positive” move which would also benefit Israel, she added that Israel must not make any territorial concessions or permit the establishment of a Palestinian state.

    Instead, the former Justice Minister said, the Jewish state must extend its sovereignty over Area C – the roughly 60% of Judea and Samaria which Israel retains full control over.

    Turning to the upcoming elections, slated for September 17th, Shaked confirmed that she planned on running again, despite her loss in the April 9th election.

    When asked by journalist Dana Weiss if she had decided to run again, Shaked responded: “Probably, yes.”

    The former Justice Minister also said she would not ‘rule out’ any possible alliance with other right-wing parties, and suggested she may run again on the New Right ticket with former Education Minister Naftali Bennett.

    “Not at all!”, said Shaked when asked if she had made up her mind not to run again with Bennett.

    “Naftali Bennett and I are partners for many years. We are ideological partners, and I think that we did a revolution in Israeli politics. When we entered the Knesset, it was well-known that a Palestinian state would be established. Today, everyone is talking about annexation. We did some huge stuff, and I hope that we’ll be able to work together in the future.”

    “I am not ruling out anything that can help create a big right wing block.

    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/264656

  41. @ Ted Belman:
    Zahran is not in power anywhere.

    Until that occurs in the real world and not the theoretical it has no pragmatic value. In the event he ever runs Jordan, which most people find extremely unlikely, then it is possible. Right now King Abdulah II troubled or not is still in charge of Jordan.

  42. @ david singer:
    You are consistent you always write that Israel will have to negotiate with Jordan for land west of the Jordan River. It simply is not so no matter how many times or ways you inject it into your periodical articles.

  43. @ Bear Klein:
    To set the record straight:

    I was the founder of the Jordan is Palestine Committee in 1979 which became an international movement with branches in various countries and held conferences in London, New York and Israel.

    Our aim was to spread the message that Jordan comprised about 77% of the territory comprised in the Mandate for Palestine and to reject PLO propaganda that claimed Israel occupied all of former Palestine.

    We further claimed that there was no need for another Arab state between Israel and Jordan – the two successor States to the Mandate – and they should negotiate on the allocation of sovereignty of the remaining 5% of the territory of the Mandate between their two respective states and that no one – Jew or Arab – would have to relocate from his present home.

    We also argued that Jews had the legal right to reconstitute the Jewish National Home in Judea and Samaria, Gaza and East Jerusalem under the Mandate and the UN Charter.

    Ambassador Friedman’s comments are therefore most welcome and very heartening.

    Jordan has well and truly been pushed center stage by the Trump administration.

    Mr Greenblatt’s comments were made back in April and were taken out of context by you – having been made following reports that Trump’s plan would see Jordan, Israel and Palestine become a confederation state or that Amman would become the destination for Palestinians relocated from their homes.

    Two months is a long time in politics – especially in the Middle East. The outcome of the joint USA-Bahrein conference in Manama on 25-26 June (announced on May 19) and fresh Israeli elections in September (announced on 29 May) could have far reaching consequences for any peace process.

  44. T. Belman. The author was the originator of the Jordan is Palestine Option almost 40 years ago

    Actually Ted, that is not factual. Other people had the idea previously.

    In fact Ariel Sharon when the PLO was at war Jordan when it was under the rule of King Hussein was going to allow the Syrian Army to help the PLO defeat the King in order to create a Palestinian State in Jordan. He was over ruled by Prime Minister Golda Meir after the USA asked her to intervene. Sharon had some troops move to stop the Syrian advance towards Jordan. The Kings soldiers then defeated the PLO and drove Arafat and his PLO Army into Lebanon.

    Sharon was the not first either with this idea.

    Singer does a fine job of reporting in the first part of his article. Then he gets back to his speculative fantasies that Israel will be required to negotiate with Jordan for land west of the Jordan River.

    I quote,

    Trump has seemingly anointed Jordan to replace the rejectionist Palestine Liberation Organization as Israel’s negotiating partner on the future of the ‘West Bank’ and East Jerusalem.

    It now appears that Trump’s proposals will not see the light of day unless Trump receives an unqualified assurance from Jordan that it is willing to negotiate with Israel before the plan’s details are released.

    The above is false! Jason Greenblatt, has previously been quoted that remarks such as the above are just not so and should be stopped.

    However, Mr Greenblatt dismissed the claims, saying, “please don’t spread rumours,” in a tweet on Wednesday.

    “Rumours that our peace vision includes a confederation between Jordan, Israel & the PA, or that the vision contemplates making Jordan the homeland for Palestinians, are incorrect,” he said. “King Abdullah & Jordan are strong US allies.”

  45. Would be interesting to see redrawn boundary between Israel and hashimite land.
    So what happens to the sodomites living in those areas? I think they would cause continued disruption N S E W