Moshe Feiglin in an Open Letter to the Jewish Home and Nationalist Likud MKs
By Moshe Feiglin, JEWISH LEADERSHIP BLOG
I don’t understand how Knesset Members from the Jewish Home and the more nationalist Likud members do not stop the horror of the torture of the Duma suspects. After all, they are severely torturing the children of your constituents. There is no excuse for this. They are not suspected of being ‘ticking bombs’ or anything even similar to that.
In a coalition of 61 Knesset Members, it takes only one person to topple the government and to stop the horror. And you are not doing it.
Not only are the lives of these boys and their sanity on your shoulders. The future of the State of Israel depends on your vote.
What kind of Sodom has the State brought upon us? What kind of state will be left after this horror, taking place with the authorization and oversight of the ‘law’?
Today it is the Left torturing the Right. Tomorrow the Right will torture the Left. As long as it is all with the authorization and oversight of the ‘law’…
When it was necessary, I voted against the Coalition (when they released terrorists and on additional matters of principle). Why can’t you do the same now? The government and the Defense Minister are perpetrating this horror with your vote!
Not one of you can say, “The Coalition enjoys a majority even without me.” Even if the Opposition would support the continued administrative detention and torture (and it won’t) at least the blood would not be on your account.
If the Right was in the Opposition today, this horror would not be taking place.
@ Bear Klein:
Finally you seem to have zeroed in on my only issue!
Moderation
@ Yidvocate: If what the lawyer is saying is true then I agree with you completely!
Based on what others such Shaked is saying I believe it is grossly exaggerated!
Administrative Detention is a dangerous power for the government. Israel I believe has been completely justified in using it on enemy alien Arabs. The danger always has been its use gets expanded. Like I said the whole affair needs a review by an independent panel (if such a thing is possible in this case).
@ Bear Klein:
I’m not against other possibilities. I am not commenting on who committed this awful crime. I don’t know and don’t pretend to. What I do know is that the treatment of these innocent (until proven guilty, right?) Jewish youth is unjustified and a mark against the Jewish state. G-d on high can’t be happy with this nor should you I suggest.
@ Yidvocate: You are 100% correct or maybe not. I do not know. I know you know, you truly believe it. I will not try and open you mind to other possibilities.
Habeas corpus- The prisoner has been brought before a judge several times before his remand or detention has been extended and has seen counsel.
As I mentioned before I am not at all sure about the overall proceedings either. I hope they will be investigated completely as this whole affair is not healthy for Israel.
Do remember this? Baruch Kopel Goldstein (an Orthodox Jew); December 9, 1956 – February 25, 1994) was an American-born Israeli physician and religious extremist. He is known for being the mass murderer[2] who perpetrated the 1994 Cave of the Patriarchs massacre in the city of Hebron, killing 29 Palestinian Muslim worshipers and wounding another 125.[3][4]
Bear Klein Said:
I can see why you say that as here is the most ludicrous of “conspiracy” speculations:
the goal of those adolescents may have been to bring down the state but there was no credible threat that they had any such capability. The reason that this is claimed is that without claiming it was a threat to state security the torture would be illegal. However, the notion that these few could achieve anything is ludicrous and shows that Benett has now completely accepted being a eunuch minister, divorced himself from the settler movement, and aligned himself with the demonizers of Jewish settlers. The enticement of being a future PM is intoxicating and the fumes allow one to state the most clownish of arguments.
@ Bear Klein:
No I never said it was “impossible”. What is impossible is that they did this abysmal act and are religious Jews. It’s one or the other.
No you keep putting words in my mouth. My issue is due process, habeas corpus. How long have they been held without arraignment? How can this be justified. If you have evidence book em. If not let them free. It’s really quite simple. I don’t know what you don’t get. There are more credible suspects, but they are Arab, so they are ignored. What don’t you get???
Have Jews perpetrated such acts in the past? Have Arabs? I rest my case!
Speculations and repetitive conspiracy theories ad nauseum are not worthy of specific retort.
Bear Klein Said:
baloney, i read the same stuff and am aware of such events.. thats their job, to protect Jews against those who teach their children that Jews are sons of apes and pigs. They cross the line when they are trying to show the world the equanimity of israel towards their own killers. Iit seems like your only retort is always to say that if you dont live there you dont know… but I have learned enough to give you speculations which you are never able to rebut with facts… you only rebut them on the basis of your accepting the narratives of the one being criticized.. which is usually BB as his appointees are his mouth. The difference between you and I is not the facts, but that you buy into the excuses given for the facts and I dont… you trust and I dont.
Bear Klein Said:
even if they were guilty it was not known at the time and therefore the ONLY and SOLE cause of Jews getting killed is the incompetent, negligent and suspicious behavior of Yaalon,Rivlin, Erdan and BB when THEY created and gave state backing to a lynch mob. This is the initial crime of the four and in most states they would have been called to resign.
Bear Klein Said:
they make it sound like this is like fatah or hamas..its too bad they cant prevent attacks on Jews and put so much energy into those who teach their children that Jews are sons of apes and pigs.
For those who do not know because they have never lived in Israel. of the many things for security of Israel the Shin Bet the following are small examples.
Bear Klein Said:
the motivation of Bennet and Shaked may be to preserve a gov which would certainly fall if the lie is revealed which would mean that by default the left would ascend. it should have already fell the moment that BB, Yaalon, Erdan and Rivlin in unison, like a scripted chorus… created a lynch mob against settlers with no credible evidence in hand. That incompetent, negligent and suspicious behavior is enough to condemn them.
Bear Klein Said:
perhaps you did not read shakeds story… she clearly states that her position is based on “what she was told” as does Benett. but Bb and his cohorts tell anything to anybody and truth is not a requirement in his telling.
Yidvocate Said:
you are correct, all the details so far clearly point to arab arson as you listed. Only the words of shin bet and the settler lynch mob aver otherwise, and they have already disqualified themselves as credible at the beginning when the falsely accused Jews with no evidence and then incompetently allowed the evidence to be destroyed in the security cams of duma
After decades of witnessing what real terror is whereby scores of Jews are slaughtered year after year with the blessing of the arabs Bennett now becomes a parrot of the narrative that a couple of crimes is a wave of terro undermining the state. What rubbish!!!!!! Every leftist and arab seeks to undermine and destroy the Jewish state… all those folks want to do is build in the Jewish homeland of YS and have been serially demonized for so doing. Benett has joined the parroting mob of demonizers, become an apologist for state terror against zionism.
there is a reason and the reason is that if the full truth were discovered the right wing gov would fall from its own constituency becaust the only way the Jews will accept the lynch mob demonization and torture of settlers is if they are right and these few criminals are really guilty of some wide conspiracy.. with teeth. If they had teeth Israelis would have felt is long ago. the notion that Israel has something to fear from these few Jews as opposed to the global slaughter of Jews caused by leftist demonization is ludicrous.
Bear Klein Said:
In other words he rests on the assurances of BB, Yaalon, Erdan, shin bet… when did he start trusting them.. he certainly never trusted BB when he made his deal with Lapid.
Bear Klein Said:
this describes the left who daily demonize and lie to the world about Israel and those lies daily slaughter Jews. Bennett is a joker is he expects to beleive that even if they are guilty that their desires to bring down Israel are anywhere near as threatening as the arabs and the left who have been trying to bring down the Jewish state for decades.
Bear Klein Said:
he is a beleiver like you, but he also joined with BB and accepted a eunuch ministry whereby we never hear again of his platform of annexation or settling Jews. it seems that everyone changes when they get to power. the fact is that benett did not tell us the basis of his beleif and I am too old to take the word of those who repeatedly, like BB, been proven deceitful. Perhaps Benetts judgment is faulty. After all he failed to build on his initial wave of popularity. As for shaked, it appears that she simply relies on what she was told.. but by whom.. was it the shin bet, Yaalon, erdan, weinstein… all with vested interest in the fake narrative.
Bear Klein Said:
was the blood spilled so that Jews would be abused at the Mount and stoned while praying at the wall, so that muslims can call dirty Jews in the homeland. was the blood spilled so that young Jewish sons and daughters would die in order to save the lives of filth who teach their filthy spawn that Jews are sons of apes and pigs. Was it spilled so that there would be more muslim abuse of Jews under a Jewish gov than in the nation of france?
Bear Klein Said:
actually, it is not, it was a heinous crime commited by arabs in a vendetta. Terror is when such crimes are used as tools to achieve political goals such as used by fatah, hamas and the PA
Bear Klein Said:
if this were true then we would have seen the trial and execution of most of fatah, especially abbas. We would see the detention of Israeli leftists who spread lies about Israel that lead to revenge murders of Jews. Each lie of Israeli apartheid would result in detention and deportation. Jews die because of leftist lies but the leftist foreign moles are not brought to justice for their murdering libeling incitement.
Bear Klein Said:
Checking what, questioning what…. did he speak with the detainees…..because without that he can only be listening to those who are proven liars or deceivers. If shin bet called the settlers “anti zionists” then shin bet appears to have the same political viewpoint as the left and the orwellian doublespeaking “zionist union” who beleive that settlers should be demonized and that any lie and deceit is justified by the end of giving YS to muslims to build their homes. for me, this is a red flag that proves the shin bet is untrustworth, plus I beleive that they are going to parrot the fake narrative that BB, rivlin, Yaalon and Erdan presented to demonize settlers.
Bear Klein Said:
rubbish, if they wanted a unity of the jewish nation they would have arrested inciting leftists and not just settlers. the liars like Levy and Hass who should be deported and stripped of citizenship if not held for inciting to murder Jews by issuing libel. There can be no unity when the left has demonized the only remaining zionists in Israel and have, like the supersessionist churches, hijacked the term zionist for themselves in order to create the big lie that the left are zionists. how is it possible to consider one word from the mouth of such liars. The left know the evil they have done which is why like the church who call themselves the replacement Jews, they have designated themselves the replacement zionists. The only question is why would they all lie with the goal to demonize settlers who are the only authentic Zionists left?
How is it possible that fool jews accept the ludicrous narrative that those who so frantically and speedily seek to give eretz yisroel, Judea samaria, to the muslims need to commit their vile acts with the disguise of being zionists?
Yidvocate, so you told us it impossible that these innocents could have possibly have burned these Arabs because they are religious Jews? That is what I am paraphrasing. That is what you believe?
So you think the motivation of the government including Bennett is to divert the attention from the Arab terrorism?
So the only issue is due process? It would not be relevant if these “holy kids” did start or contribute to a retribution cycle which is getting other Jews killed or hurt
and they are actually intending for things to spin out of control until the state falters. It is not possible for Jews to do something like this? Why?
Do you know anything about these kids except that they are religious Jews?
Bennett say the following, “I can assert that all the actions that are taken — and they are really extraordinary actions in light of an unusual situation — are under control, and with close legal supervision, and they are aimed at preventing the next attack,” he said.
@ Bear Klein:
Yah, I do know the details. The details that are relevant and so do you as you clearly admit. That is the only issue. Due process. Not Nazi tactics by Jews against Jews in the Jewish state!
That plus the fact that atrocities are endemic in Israel today with knifing and motor car rampages and the security services are diverting,it seems all their attention, on what exactly?
Did I miss any salient details? Please advise.
@ Yidvocate: I do not personally know the details. Do you personally know the details?
Bayit Yehudi MK Ayelet Shaked is the Justice Minister and Naftali Bennett I believe are honest reasonable people. Apparently without evidence from people who know anything firsthand you choose to demonize them.
One point I am in agreement with you on is that I prefer better due process and administrative detention for citizens unless the states welfare in is in danger should not happen.
I hope this episode soon sees the light of day.
Torture I hope has not been used. Psychological pressure can be very effective in getting to the truth but physical torture is not a reliable way of getting to the truth. It should be reserved for ticking time bombs when all else fails.
@ Bear Klein:
Really? And all this time I thought it was our pali-posers who were hell bent on destroying the Jewish state. Thanks for informing me that the existential threat is from a handful of starry-eyed kinderlach with long side curls!
@ Yidvocate:We have read all the speculation how it could not have been Jews for a while now. None of this is proof but speculation at best or rationalization at worst.
Since Bennett has information than either one of us has and I personally trust him and the Justice Minister I am giving their version the benefit of the doubt.
Jewish Home chairman and Education Minister Naftali Bennett backed the Israel Security Agency (ISA or Shin Bet) Tuesday, despite the organization’s alleged cruel and unusual interrogation methods in the Duma arson case.
“What we see here is terrorism,” Bennett stated about the Duma arsonists, in an interview with Army Radio. “There are a few dozen people here whose purpose is not to kill, but to take means to undermine the foundations of the state.”
“These people do not recognize Israel as a legitimate state, and really try to bring about Armageddon,” he added.
Bennett said that the security cabinet backs the ISA on the whole. “I get my information as a member of the Cabinet, which is the information that we receive from top officials, ” he noted. “You have to understand that these people want to separate the country [of Israel] and the government, they want to create a kind of anarchy or something similar, and bring down upon us the state of Israel upon ourselves.”
@ Bear Klein:
Just how demented can Bennett be? All things he accuses the unindicted youth of he is guilty of supporting!
No one says the acts were not hynous and the perpetrators should not be caught and punished.
This issue is about due process and the rule of law in the “democratic” state of Israel. These kids aren’t even allowed to speak to their parents for @#@# sake, let alone a lawyer!
This persecution is purely political and corrupt because:
1. Jews don’t do this kind of thing. Sure there could be some deranged Jew but never as a calculated group plan. Slash tires, graffiti sure, but this kind of heartless murder has the signature of the muzloid and not the Jew.
2. A Jew would not have picked a house smack dab in the middle of Duma and the graffiti left behind was suspiciously not Jewish authored.
3. How many weeks of detention does it take to “investigate” before only duress and torture can be inferred in any confession that may ensue?
4. There was evidence that the Arab victims had lots of local enemies within their own ranks. Why aren’t they in admin detention? Because they are Arabs and not Jews?
Is this Bennett’s vision of the Jewish state?
How is this “unifying the nation and representative of the land, the nation or the Torah of Israel”? Hu Bennett????/
Netanyahu should have fallen long before he inflicted this latest inhumanity upon Jews. Torturing innocent Israelis is merely the cherry atop the crap sundae Netanyahu has long shoved down the throat of Israel. Once removed from office, he will have a highly successful career selling “pre-owned” motor vehicles whose odometers he has rolled back.