Third Annual Conference for the Application of Israeli Sovereignty over Judea and Samaria

30 Comments / 30 Comments

1. Yamit…i urge you to buy on kindle the book by robert service on trotsky…It is pennies to buy and i will be dealing with it a lot. Service is a pig and a liar but even so i do not reject any research and it is very readable which is most important if you are starting on the subject. I could carry on with my friends into giving on a email service which to me is more private and more secure than facebook. You can google trotsky service. Costs about 7 euros for a 500 page book!!! do let me know! NB YOU DO NOT NEED A KINDLE MACHINE TO DOWNLOAD BOOKS, JUST CHECK WITH AMAZON

2. Felix Quigley Said:

   4 dogs and a cat

   Four legs good. Two legs bad.

3. Listen Yamit old bean if the Jews will not fight for the Alawites and you have a huge country etc etc then how do you expect me with my little website 4 dogs and a cat with more dogs arriving every day that i cannot take

   keep the argument to reason despite our differences. The Alawites are more Conversos than are Shia or their answer to “How to exist among these savages”

   Of course i would vote for you Yamit

   But in reality you would need a party and that is the tough thing to achieve. Easy to rant as I sometimes do. hard to put that rant into a party.

4. @ Felix Quigley:
   Felix Quigley Said:

   The dialectic with likes of Yamit has been interesting for me. But I have learned all the lessons!

   Felix all you have learned were facts. I have read your stuff and I do commend you in your effort but then you tried to apply our facts with your ideology and beliefs and that where you fail. Just as Judaism is the living proof that both Christianity and Islam are false beliefs the existence and Israel and the Jewish People is living proof of the falsehood of Communism in all it’s forms. Judaism is predicated upon Jewish isolation a Jewish national homeland, Jewish nationalism and a Jewish politi. Every believing Jew in that construct is a Zionist and have been for over 2000 years and will be for another 2000 years.

   It’s not Zionism that is dead it’s communism. Like all pop cult ism’s it had it’s run (less than a century) and pufff out like a candle , dead as a door knob an anachronism by any measurable standard. That said, it does not follow that I favor capitalism as it exists today but I believe in time a new third way between the two will develop maybe not willingly or naturally but because of no choice.

   But that from the Negev hot air bullshitter is just that. I am serious though. And I will buid a Leninist Party to carry it out.

   First I will defend the Alawites.

   Felix you have been ranting your Commie line for at least as long as I have been posting comments here. I think that’s enough time to demonstrate some success on your part. Where is your minions, your great horde of commie cadre. Why haven’t you first taken over Spain which is really ripe and an economic and social basket case?

   If you want to defend Alawites go ahead. Why don’t you volunteer yourself and your great hoard of Commie followers and go to Syria and save your Alawites. I’m sure someone will see that you are provisioned and armed for the task maybe even Obama.

   Do your Commie duty go over and fight for what you believe in.

5. @ Felix Quigley:

   You need a leninist Partty. Zionism in its bourgeois form (Yamitean bankruptcy hot air) is finished. End of road old Yamit!

   Feix being a true Bolshi, you have “Learned Nothing and Forgotten Nothing”

   How’s it going in Spain and Ireland these days?

   Your notice of my demise is exaggerated and much too premature.

6. yamit82 Said:

   No Felix not Leninist but Yammitist!!! Give me or one like me the reins of Power for 1 year, That’s all I would need.

   all i could say is a resolute AMEN

7. @ Felix Quigley:

   To do this you need a Leninist party to lead Israel. IT IS NO SMALL MATTER.

   No Felix not Leninist but Yammitist!!! Give me or one like me the reins of Power for 1 year, That’s all I would need.

   According to Spenger we are entering a period of global instability akin to the 30 years war in which tremendous suffering will play out and be inflicted upon most if not all of the world and national maps will be redrawn.

   Sometimes the best thing to do is absolutely nothing but wait out events and be ready to take advantage of opportunities as they come up.

   Screw the Syrians and the Alawites (a sect of Shia Islam). MB and you Bolshis have much in common.
   
   Did you know that in 20-30 years half of the Russian Republic will be over 50% Islamic?

8. @ Felix Quigley:

   It’s all rubbish above.

   If you cannot defend the Alawites you cannot defend a single Jew. All great at the talking though!

   During the Iraq Iran war Kissinger the German was asked who should win and thinking in German said: “I want them both to lose and we should do everything to arrange that outcome.” Shamir the Yid asked the same question replied “I want them both to win”

   Felix you will never understand Jews. 🙂

9. I could go on pointing out allthe hot air in above. But rotting corpse comes to mind. Zionism a la bourgeois is at the end of the road.

   So I will refrain.

   The dialectic with likes of Yamit has been interesting for me. But I have learned all the lessons!

   Zionism is a great great movement, an historical movement, but it will be carried on only by Bolsheviks.

   This is my position too:

   First depopulate the territories then annex is my long standing position

   But that from the Negev hot air bullshitter is just that. I am serious though. And I will buid a Leninist Party to carry it out.

   First I will defend the Alawites.

10. COMMENT 15

    My thinking was that the first step should be to make everyone realize that the two state solution is dead.

    IT IS NOT.

    The first step is to understand your enemy, what you are up against and to base youir strategy on that.

    You need a leninist Partty. Zionism in its bourgeois form (Yamitean bankruptcy hot air) is finished. End of road old Yamit!

11. You are quite right. Its one thing to discuss all the issues. Its another thing to brainstorm with about a dozen people on how to promote it.

    I will discuss that with Nadia Matar of Women of Green.

    THAT IS VERY INTERESTING COMMENT

    Please put your cards on the table Ted. How? And do you include Gaza and Sinai as well.

    Please do not evade me in this Ted. tell me how?

    To do this you need a Leninist party to lead Israel. IT IS NO SMALL MATTER.

12. It’s all rubbish above.

    If you cannot defend the Alawites you cannot defend a single Jew. All great at the talking though!

13. @ Canadian Otter:
    Canadian Otter Said:

    PS – David Wilder may be able to direct you to the right websites re. territory and security. He’s been dealing with the media for ages and must have good references on the subject. http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Blogs/Blog.aspx/9

    canadian, a million thanks, i’ll look it up.

14. @ dionissis mitropoulos:
    – Security is the most solid argument. Nothing focuses the mind as much as the thought of a major threat.
    – Denouncing Muslim violence has only a limited effect in the West. We have become desesitized to it. It no longer has shock value. Violence itself is a form of entertainment (the news, movies, video games, sports). But Muslim violence should be exposed, if only to debunk the false image of Islam as the Religon of Peace.
    – Two States was always a plan based on deception, by the Arabs, the West, and the Israeli elite itself. It is still a strong possibility, I’m afraid, but not through an agreement with Israel (recognition of Israel and all that jazz). It may just happen. Everything leads to it. Some top Israeli leaders are floating the idea of disengagement.

    PS – David Wilder may be able to direct you to the right websites re. territory and security. He’s been dealing with the media for ages and must have good references on the subject. http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Blogs/Blog.aspx/9

15. @ Canadian Otter:
    Canadian Otter Said:

    Arabs have a better standard of living, peace and more rights in Israel than in any other Middle East country.

    Better education too:Israeli Arab students score higher in tests than those from every Arab country.

    http://elderofziyon.blogspot.gr/2012/12/israeli-arab-students-score-higher-in.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed:+blogspot/PDbq+%28Elder+of+Ziyon%29

16. @ Canadian Otter:
    Canadian Otter Said:

    What I had in mind was to word the message according to the audience.

    I agree. I’ve noticed that in many posts of yours you take seriously into account how to best approach the target audience (still remember the spliff-friendly GOP you visualized!), and i am completely concurring to such communication considerations.

    My thinking was that the first step should be to make everyone realize that the two state solution is dead. From then on, the various options (such as Yamit’s) could be examined. And i think that bringing to the forefront the indoctrination issue would bring the two-staters (Israeli or westerners)in a defensive position: what can they possibly reply to it?

    Canadian Otter Said:

    They know that Gaza is only a small prototype of what the state of Palestine would become.

    This would be my number two argument – addressed mainly to westerners, Israelis are already aware of that danger, as you noted.

    I keep on searching the internet for good maps together with a detailed analysis of the strategic threat from the various hilltops of Judea and Samaria. I haven’t found what i want yet, but i can’t help thinking that there is not a single hilltop that Israel can spare to future terrorists – for the reasons that you noted,i.e. that given that the world shouts at Israel when defending herself against a terrorist organization (Hamas), then it would be almost impossible for Israel to defend herself against a sovereign Palestine without attracting UN-inspired economic sanctions.

    But the whole Judea and Samaria consists of hilltops, if my understanding is correct, so how can Israel cede the territories? This dilemma should be forcefully presented to the westerners.

    Still, i would insist on concentrating on the incitement issue first. It is not just that it is the most important reason that the two-state solution is impossible, it is also amenable to many emotive arguments. If it becomes a headlines-topic in the Media, the room is open for exposing how the Palestinian kids grow up (pictures and videos with kids holding weapons, toddlers donning suicide belts etc) and parents all over the West will have a chance to realize the hatred that Israel is facing – plus, they will start despising the Palestinian parents.

    Leftists will have a problem dismissing this issue, it’s too sentimental.

17. @ dionissis mitropoulos:
    What I had in mind was to word the message according to the audience. Secular Israelis may not be too receptive to the historical, religious or even the legal reasons for annexation. But they are acutely aware of how a Nazi Arab State would impact THEIR SECURITY. They know that Gaza is only a small prototype of what the state of Palestine would become. Israel can still bomb Gaza. Bombing a sovereign state backed by the UN and other Muslim states would be next to impossible, particularly when it would appear to be not a military confrontation, but one between the IDF and urban populations. ~~~~~ The message to youth would also have to be crafted differently. There’s a world of difference in how youth and mature people perceive the world, their enthusiasm, their intensity of ideals, their readiness to sacrifice. The word peace for a parent or an older person can be seductive to the point of irrationality. ~~~~~ And then the message to the wider international audience too has to be carefully communicated. USA erratic policies in the ME, its betrayal of allies, and much more, all adds up to the argument that a strong Israel with defensible borders is in the American people’s best interest. If it’s human rights and democracy Americans want for the ME, it already exists in only ONE country: Israel. Arabs have a better standard of living, peace and more rights in Israel than in any other Middle East country. ~~~~~ In short, adjust the message to the audience’s own interests.

18. The Arabs in the West Bank are not the same as we found in 67, during the 70’s and 80’s even. Over two generations of Intense indoctrination have radicalized them, if not in deed in thought.

    After two intifadas and the Politically correct IDF and security services a familiarity has developed they with us and we with them. We Israelis and especially the IDF are no longer feared. They know they are winning and have the patience to wait us out.

    Now lets hypothetically grant that Israel annex all of the West Bank.

    What then?

    What will Israel do with 2-3 million belligerent Arabs under our control and responsibility.

    What will be the financial cost to Israel?

    What we be the internal fallout?

    What will be the international fallout?

    What if the Arabs demand equal rights political and civil?

    What if they are not given?

    What if they demand autonomy?

    What if they as they are prone to do institute another more violent intifada and half the country or a large minority here blame the government for the cause of violence?

    What if other countries like Egypt threaten war if we do not give the Palis what they want?

    These question and many more should be asked and answered before any serious discussion and action re: Annexation.

    First depopulate the territories then annex is my long standing position.

19. @ Canadian Otter:
    Canadian Otter Said:

    A strong focus on how to communicate, adapt, and disseminate the message for annexation to different sectors of the Jewish population and potential supporters abroad.

    The message should be that Palestinian incitement has made peace through the two-state solution impossible. Brainwashed Palestinian kids will be the terrorists of tomorrow – and there is no indication whatsoever that the West intends to pressure the PA to stop the incitement.

    I think that this is the strongest argument for persuading open-minded two-staters that their solution is bound to fail.

20. SHmuel wrote “Security of the movement’s leaders and activists must be considered”
    Absolutely. That’s why it’s important to consolidate this pro-sovereignty movement into a strong organization. Scattered leadership are vulnerable to pressure or worse. But it they organize attracting a large number of reputable secular and religious members, then those intent on intimidation would have a harder time, particularly if all threats are immediately disclosed to the media. Enemies of the movement should kinow that if one leader is neutralized, there will be many ready to take his place, that the movement will go on. There’s security in numbers. ~~~~~ Perhaps in anticipation to strong opposition to disengagement authorities have expanded the concept of Terror to include Price Tag acts. The Supreme Court determined that anyone SUSPECTED of a Price Tag act can now be treated as a terrorist. That means no access to lawyers and indefinite detention. Authorities could use this to intimidate just about anyone. http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4316253,00.html – ~~~~~ And the government has extended the concept of RACISM to include the MK election slogan “No Loyalty – No Duties, No Rights” – http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/163128 – ~~~~~ Again – the pro-sovereignty movement must be careful with the citizenship issue, avoid any definite pronouncement, and limit itself to exploring and suggesting alternative options, making clear that it is deferring the decision to a post-annexation committee, and maybe to a referendum.

21. @ Ted Belman: The Conference is a very important project and we all wish you well.
    Very central attention should be given to include IDF ranked officers to draft them into promoting the movement’s goals.
    Security of the movement’s leaders and activists must be considered.
    Defense of existing strongholds must also be studied and organized.

22. The issue of these areas like Judea is an issue of the state and here these kinds of people are really just laughed at. They have no power and like Feiglin never will have any power. And above all they oppose me as a Trotskyist and the perspective to capture the state. Without that it is talk talk talk talk…

    I have seen these kinds of protesters all my life and the longer I live the more I reject them.

    There is something quite stupid in trying to occupy a few areas or hills in Judea when the real area to begin taking over and making bloom is areas such as Gaza.

    The coastline is very attractive. There you could create a real heaven on earth with Israel and Jews in total control and with Germans flocking to the area via the most modern airports with nary an Arab terrorist in sight, and as the fat german comes in to land the Jew will be having delicious revenge by relieving him of his spondoolies. (cash that is)

    From what I am told the Golan is also very attractive and there Israel could become a leader in the world in protecting nature, with the latest science being developed to protect our world.

    “Contempt for the material often results from the inability to obtain it. Judaism praises worldly things, does not require anyone to distribute all his property for perfection, does not view the beautiful material world with Shinto melancholy. Man is not born for suffering or self-abnegation but for enjoyment. Would God have created us in his image just to make us suffer? Certainly not.”

    from a well known Jew called Samson

23. The question is how? Athough I support most of the sentiments but the likes of Women in Green like Feiglin and Jews News are bankrupt. Zionism is in a profound crisis.

    Hagmann is useful to a very limited point but inverts things.

    “It’s a globalist agenda, using the blueprints and agenda created by Saudi Arabia for the North African and Middle East portions of the globe, to shape that area geopolitically. They are using the United States as their surrogate and their military muscle, and the Obama led U.S. “regime” is all too willing to comply.”

    This is placing on Obama the title of “bumbling bear in the china shop” which was exactly what they did with Bush and the neocons re the disastrous removal of Saddam from the arena.

    Thus greatly strengthening the Muslim Brotherhood. (see expert on these issues Jared Israel not Hagmann if you are really interested, but you may not be interested, and really your interest will stop or have a heart attack when you get close to Trotskyist conclusions)

    The great evil in the world is US Imperialism closely followed by the British and French.

    The Third World War he refers to is not against Islam but by US Imperialism against Russia, China and India. Islam is a tool in that US War. The US uses Islam.

    Wake up Otter.

24. What’s different this time is that this conference will have to keep the NEW ME and the NEW USA at the forefront. The US govt is now openly siding with its own and Israel’s enemies. ~~~~~ Who would have thought that the US would be working hand-in-hand with the same terrorists who murdered Americans on 9/11. That the US govt would be arming those groups and others just as murderous in order to depose ME governments and install the Muslim Brotherhood in their place. That the US has just sent 20 NEW F16 fighters as a GIFT to Islamist MB in Egypt, as part of a larger aid package. That while there is carnage and mayhem all over the ME, the US has told the EU to keep strong pressure on peaceful Jews building houses. Actions speak louder than words – and now the US govt is completely ‘out of the closet’ with its efforts to support Islamists and undermine Israel. As you plan for the future, Israelis, be careful and trust no one.

    Here is part 3 of intelligence expert Doug Hagmann’s extensive interview with an insider regarding Benghazi, the US-supported Muslim Brotherhood takeover of the ME, and other strange happenings. And the insider ends by posing this question: Why aren’t Americans angry that we are using our assets, our men and women to advance the agenda of Saudi Arabia? Why, indeed. – http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/51679

25. The majority of the U.S. senate who are supportive of Israel in every way do not support annexation and neither does Canada.

26. The biggest hurdle is the reluctance of the old line parties in Israel to take on America and Europe. The bulk of U.S Jews are lukewarm to the idea

27. Hope it takes off.

28. @ Ted Belman:
    THANK YOU TED – I wish you and the conference the greatest success!

29. @ Canadian Otter:
    You are quite right. Its one thing to discuss all the issues. Its another thing to brainstorm with about a dozen people on how to promote it.

    I will discuss that with Nadia Matar of Women of Green.

30. Missing from this agenda:

    – A strong focus on how to communicate, adapt, and disseminate the message for annexation to different sectors of the Jewish population and potential supporters abroad.

    – How to utilize existing assets: leaders, social media, MKs, youth, foreign allies, etc., etc.

    – A plan for a coordinated effort to UNITE and ORGANIZE to effectively CHALLENGE the DISMANTLING PROCESS (aka peace process).

    – A sense of urgency. These meetings can’t go on forever. Ministers Barak and Lieberman, and IDF former chief Gabi Ashkenazy have publicly stated support for Disengagement from Judea and Samaria. Nobody knows what the PM will surrender after the elections this time. He already froze construction and gave warm support to “Two States for Two Peoples”. What’s next? Are pro-annexation folks prepared? They don’t even have an organized movement!

    STATUS OF THE ARABS appears to be a legitimate issue but in actuality it is a devious tool used by Israel’s enemies to derail any organized plan for annexation. Do not let this happen. Agree to place it under study for decision AFTER the land has been secured. Use ambiguity if you must, but you must not let this be stumbling block to reaching unity. Limit yourselves to suggest strict paths to individual – not mass – citizenship, and viable legal alternatives to citizenship, but there should be NO official position in the pro-annexation movement.