By Jan Willem van der Hoeven
[..] In an interview with Jerusalem Post on 10.08.2001 the then leader of Israel’s opposition, Yossi Sarid was quoted:
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“Every dispute around the world in history was solved through negotiations”.
This mantra repeatedly verbalized across Israel’s political spectrum, the notion that a solution with the Palestinians can only be found through negotiations is, however, entirely false.
Israel’s negotiations have actually brought more violence, not less. The ONLY WAY a political solution can be reached via negotiations is if an Israeli government comes to power, which, for the sake of regional peace, would be willing to change Israel’s nature so that it would no longer be a sovereign JEWISH state.
World history is replete with examples demonstrating that conflicts initiated by aggressive regimes are usually only resolved by military might. From the Islamic conquest of Europe, through the aggression of Nazi Germany and Japan, through Soviet aggression against Berlin, Argentina’s invasion of the Falklands, Noriega’s dictatorship, North Korea’s designs on South Korea and Iraq’s invasion of Kuwait, all these aggressors have been turned back by military means.
Through Kissingers’ negotiations with Hanoi, all America’s military investment into ensuring that South Vietnam remained free, was lost. The north overran the south as a direct result of the negotiated settlement.
We know that Eastern Europe was enslaved for decades by the Soviet Union as a result of negotiations between Churchill, Roosevelt and Stalin. Negotiations in and around Yugoslavia did not bring the desired result of peace to that fractured land.
In Lebanon, neither the numerous treaties and negotiations, nor the years-long presence of U.N. peacekeeping troops have led the country into freedom and independence, and Beirut remains largely under the control of Damascus and the Hizbollah.
No, Mr. Yossi Sarid, you are wrong when you (and many others) say: “Every dispute around the world in history was solved through negotiations.”
Posterity is proof that the opposite is true! Negotiations have very seldom satisfactorily solved conflicts.
In truth, where nations were persuaded to relinquish the fruits of their military prowess and opt for negotiated settlements, it is nearly always the aggressor that has won.
The near unanimous lesson from History is this: You have to win a war in order to win a peace.
And now I am afraid that the country’s leaders will not be willing to even consider what I believe to be the only way out of its present predicament until Israel has suffered even more violence.
There is no doubt that what’s called for is a new leadership, a more correct perception of the realities, a sound recognition of the enemy’s aims, and clear, definitive strategic-political planning. There must be no fumbling in the dark and no mere tactical expedients, for these will get us nowhere. If we don’t have a well-defined, realistic objective, we won’t have to fight the Arabs for our survival. The Arabs won’t need to fight. The Jews, as usual, will destroy themselves.
So what do we have to wait for? More bloodshed and massacre until finally Israel will make the only proper and benign decision which, as the experts have already told us, is that there is no place for two sovereignties in this small region that it either becomes a Palestinian State in its entirety or a Jewish State in its entirety.
In that way, the Palestinian leadership seems more honest and realistic as they maintain that there is no place in this land for two states. One has to go, even if it is through the combination of terror and political pressure, so that in the end all the land would become Palestine. It is not the settlements that the Palestinians object too, it is the settlement of Jews in what they see as their ultimate Palestinian State on all the land of Israel.
I fear that the correct and only plausible way to prevent this war of slow destruction, is to take back all the territories given to the Palestinians (however “politically incorrect”) and establish a humane and just administration under Israeli rule incorporating some of the following measures.
I Keep Judea and Samaria. These are disputed areas – not “occupied territories” even though the whole world labels them as such in its insistence that in its self-defensive war Israel took territories that did not belong to her. Jerusalem’s official position on this must be changed and then adhered to: Israel liberated its own promised land from illegal occupation by the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan; an occupation rejected by the entire international community except for Britain and Pakistan, and which lasted from 1948 to the Six Day War in 1967.
II Israel should in no way fear a demographic problem arising out of keeping all Samaria and Judea, but face it vigorously with the following measures:
a) Make bringing Jews home from all over the world a top governmental priority, with an upgraded Ministry of Aliyah fielding the best candidates to explain abroad the need for aliyah.
b) Stimulate natural population growth by providing financial assistance to large families. Where possible there should be an overall effort to counsel against the evil of abortion, so that the tens of thousands of Jewish children that are being aborted every year will live – to be adopted if need be by Israeli families who would love to have children of their own.
III End all distinction or difference between those who desire to be loyal citizens of the Jewish State of Israel, imposing on all the same obligations and giving all the same rights. This includes the obligation to serve in the Israel Defense Forces. Such a move may cause a voluntary exodus of many of the Muslim Arabs now living in Israel with Israeli passports, for a great number would in all likelihood refuse to serve in “the Jewish Army” to defend a state which, in their heart of hearts, they wish to see become a Muslim-controlled Palestinian state. Their departure will free Israel from those who would otherwise use their citizenship to undermine the very state they are part of.
IV As Ambassador Yoram Ettinger and others like Paul Morland, Birkbeek College, University of London, have amply documented, there is in the foreseeable future no, I repeat no, demographic danger for Israel to hold on to all her G-d given land.
See Yoram Ettinger “Freeze of Jewish Construction in Judea and Samaria: Peace or Appeasement Enhancer”
Paul Morland “Defusing the demographic scare”
Jan Willem van der Hoeven, Director
International Christian Zionist Center
Take the pledge! Try it – you’ll like it:
@ <a href="#commentAmericanEagle:
Different POV?
Try this on for size: THE NEW TRINITY: DO WE ALL PRAY TO THE SAME GOD?… Mark Rosenblit
Christianity seeks to know God, not only through the Hebrew Bible, but also through the “New Testament”; and, in cases of conflict between the two Scriptures, the “New Testament” prevails in the eyes of Christians simply because that Scripture is deemed by Christianity to be the corrective and final Word of God. Consequently, to the extent that the Christian Bible distorts the Nature, Message and Expectations of the God of Israel it does not describe our God at all but another deity entirely — and it is this deity that Christianity recognizes and to which Christians pray.
Obviously, we Jews do not accept:
that Humanity is born with the stain of “Original Sin”; or
that a righteous person might be denied God’s Love; or
that the New Testament is a Scripture of the God of Israel; or
that Christianity has superseded Judaism as the Revelation of the God of Israel; or
that the God of Israel impregnated a human female (whether or not a virgin), and did so for the purpose of causing His Offspring to be born as a human being, only to be tortured and murdered, in order to redeem Humankind from its collective sins ( — in that, the practice of human sacrifice, especially to appease a deity, is abhorrent to the God of Israel — ); or
that, after the death of Jesus, the God of Israel has decreed that the sins of a Jew can be forgiven only by accepting Jesus as his Savior ( — in that, the God of Israel, before, during and after the time of Jesus, without employing any intermediary, Himself forgives an individual’s forgivable sins, but only after that individual has repented, and thereafter modifies his thoughts and behaviors in order to avoid repeating those sins — ); or
that the God of Israel gave Jesus the Power to abrogate the Divine — and thus unalterable — Commandments of the Torah which God Himself bestowed upon the Jewish people; or
that the God of Israel decreed that the Jewish people be murdered or otherwise persecuted as punishment for their refusal to accept Jesus as a demigod; or
that the God of Israel decreed that Jews are the Children of the Devil (or even that there exists such a supernatural creature which vies with God for Supremacy over the Universe); or
that the God of Israel created demonic creatures, and permits them to enter human beings and possess their souls; or
that the God of Israel instructs the Jewish people, as proof of their faith in Him (through Jesus), to cast out demons, speak gibberish, handle deadly snakes, ingest poison, and heal the sick without seeking medical intervention; or
that the Jewish people bear collective and perpetual guilt for the Crime of Deicide ( — as if it were actually possible to kill the Creator of all Existence — ).
Consequently, we cannot possibly accept the postulate that the deity depicted in the “New Testament” and the God of Israel are one and the same — or that, after so thorough a baptism in the falsehoods of the “New Testament”, Christians (even those who do not worship Jesus as a god) nevertheless pray to the God of Israel. Read More
Here we see yet another example of Yamit’s intellectual bankruptcy where he descibes political opposition as intolerance. Yet this is a guy, who like the Hamas members, routinely abuses Christians and others who support Israel using the Torah to make his case as if that makes any sense. When a Christian woman missionary was brutally killed in Israel several months ago this bigot called the murdered woman a terrorist.
This is a bald faced lie. Yamit was among the STUPID 78% of American Jews who voted for Imam Obama in 2008 and put the US, Israel, and the world in harms way. 56% of these morons say they will support him again – the most unqualified, uninformed, inexperienced, incompetent and anti-Semitic President in US history.
Anyone who is a member of this forum knows that this is what Yamit has wished on the US for years, way before I became a member and started exposing him when no one else would.
This makes him a bird of a feather with Hamas, Al Qaeda and the Taliban. They all work tirelessly to bring the US down in any way they can.
AE demands tolerance and free speech for a select group like those who think and believe as he does. He is the most intolerant of those when it comes to Democrats, Obama and those 78% of Jews he claims supported Obama.
I am so tolerant that I almost wish for an Obama Victory in 2012 along with Democratic wins in both houses just so his life will be a living Hell for 4 more years. I could almost wish for an impoverished America just so he and those like him would suffer. That I think would make my day just because it would be so utterly painful to him and the zombies who are like him.
We all have our fantasies.
I see you haven’t quite risen from the ashes, Phoenix, which may account for the throat clearing.
I reject all the false premises you have conveniently concocted on behalf of the bigot Moshe Feiglin. None of them are valid or even addressed by Glenn Beck, and there is no evidence that Beck or most other Christian supporters of Israel have a problem with any of these.
I will use Feiglin’s own words from the report in the link below to indict him as a hate-filled, anti-Christian bigot.
Glenn Beck is probably the strongest supporter of Israel in the American media, but he happens to be a Mormon.
Keep this in mind as I show you how Moshe Feiglin is a hate-filled bigot:
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/10408
Oh, really? Beck’s mostly Christian nation has underwritten Israel’s security for decades. Previously mostly Christian Britain made Israel possible after wresting the so called “promised land” from the Muslim Turks who had occupied it for centuries.
Is this hate-filled bigot Feiglin also a blaspheming heretic that he has concocted his own God which he does not even know how to spell? There is only one God of all creation. Jews who can spell call HIM Hashem – Muslims call HIM Allah – Hindus call HIM Bhagwan.
This does not even make sense. In English, “joining you” does not mean “replacing you” and this is not dependant on whether one is converting or not.
So what if Beck is a Mormon? How does this disqualify him from supporting Israel? The Rabbi Jesus chased out the money-changers who were debasing the temple and interfering with its religious solemnity. How does this represent an anti-Semitic legend? This is another deliberate blasphemy by Feiglin.
This guy is a nasty and narrow-minded Jewish supremacist and a disgrace to Judaism.
@ AmericanEagle:
ahem, eagle…
kindly enlighten me as to HOW moshe feiglin is “a hate filled bigot”…
* is it because he believes that israel should be a jewish state? (i firmly believe so too, and i am a totally secular jew)
* is it because he believes that the leadership should be loyal first and foremost to the jewish majority of the country? (wow! what a concept! for a leader to actually have his nation’s interests at heart…. of course the world is so used to see the abomination pos fraudulently occupying the w.h. that this may actually BE a novelty…)
* is it because he wants every child to have a jewish education? (let me translate. a knowledge of one’s roots. i know the bible really well, yet i do not pray, put on tephillin etc…there is NO contradiction, eagle!)
* or most importantly, is it his advocating for ZERO TOLERANCE viz arab disloyalty??? the fact that the man calls the enemy by the CORRECT NAME is INSPIRING, to say the least!
It also shows how insecure some Jews like you are to listen to someone else’s opinion. What good is all that Rabbinical brainwashing if it can be reversed simply by hearing a different point of view?
Curtailing free speech would certainly make you more like your neighbors, who are also exclusive and paranoid, intolerant and vengeful. One wonders in the context of your remarks what Israelis would be like if they were in the majorities in several countries and surrounded a single Muslim state.
Whatever past sins were committed have been long paid for in blood and treasure. There would not even be a Jewish state were it not for Christians. The Jews had been ejected hundreds of years previously which calls into question the pious pretense of a “promised land”. Had it not been for the Christian Brits who defeated the Turks there would be no “promised land” for Israel to build and prosper on.
We expect Israelis to be civil and understand how lucky they are to have gotten back a small slice of what they had lost,with no hope of reclaiming until WW-I. Also for all the assistance they have been given for decades that made their development much easier. Thank Allah many of your leaders have always realized this.
BTW, I notice you have your own pecking order where the ultra-Orthodox consider the rest of you like pond scum and the Reform Jews as virtual heretics and outcasts. Many Indian Jews returned to India where they are less discriminated against by the European Jews than in Israel.
This is not a free speech issue, it is a national defense issue. I am all for curtailing free speech in Israel if it undermines the state or the Jewish people. Missionizing is offensive speech. We rejected Jesus as the messiah or son of G-d over 2000 years ago and have been vilified by Christians and the Church for most of time time since. So when Christians show us that they are still trying to sell us on Jesus today as though nothing happenned, it shows us they haven’t learned anything in 2000 years. And AE thinks its a matter of free speech.
If Christians would drop their missionizing of Jews or their replacement theology, they would be more welcomed and forgiven for their past sins against us.
So when they come to Israel or to Israpundit and preach the Gospel or try to sell us on Jesus as the saviour, they should expect to be vilified.
I believe I drew Ted’s attention to the bigots that are polluting his forum and chilling free speech and intelligent debate by citing religious texts as evidence.
AmericanEagle Said:
Uh, Big Bozo, what do you think you just did?
Yeah, but according to Yamit, Jews can do no wrong, even the ones like him who can call a murdered Christian woman in Israel a terrorist and voted to foist on us the most unqualified, uninformed, inexperienced, incompetent and anti-Semitic president in US history.
Shy Guy’s comment above FOLLOWED Ted’s admonition – so we see how little influence Ted has on the bigots on his forum.
When will more Jews stop tolerating such hate-filled anti-Christian bigots like Yamit and Shy Guy? Israel would be toast without the help and support of Christians.
This Esser Aragoth column is one of the most vicious and anti-Christian I have seen in awhile. Here’s one example of their incoherent Jewish supremacist hatred – here seen attacking and demonizing one of the foremost supporters of Israel in America:
Quoting a hate-filled bigot named Moshe Feiglin:
As Glenn Beck is not in the process of conversion to Judaism, it is impossible to understand his quote from the Scroll of Ruth as meaning, “I am joining you.” Apparently, the real meaning of his words is “I am replacing you.”
A quick study of Glenn Beck’s speeches before non-Israeli audiences and a simple internet search of his biography show that he is a believing Mormon who is motivated by a deep religious consciousness. In a live broadcast from the Temple Mount, Beck theatrically shows his audience how in that very place, Jesus turned over the tables of the Jewish money-changers who served the pilgrims to the Temple. He forgot to mention that with this act, that man created one of the most blatantly anti-Semitic Christian legends that lives on to this very day….
Unquote.
There was nothing anti-Semitic about a Jewish Rabbi driving money changers out of a synagogue and no one stereotypes Jews by this legend.
So, now we see that Ted Belman has set himself up as the arbiter of free speech in Israel. Free speech is what he says it is. He also shows the real disrespect for Jews – as if they are so gullible and weak minded or not brainwashed enough from years of Rabbinical talking points that they can be forced to convert in spite of themselves. Shame on you Ted for having so little faith in your fellow Jews.
I showed by his quote above that Moshe Feiglin was a Jewish supremacist and a disgrace to Judaism. His views are hardly compatible with the democracy you espouse. Without a Bill of Rights such bigots will run roughshod over non-Jews as well as Jews who are not as bigoted and hate-filled as they are.
@ Shy Guy:
Shy Guy Said:
Hmm…Freudian slip?
Ted Belman Said:
Appropriate musical interlude
That’s the end of our religious discussion. I will delete any furher mention of it.
I think the article is right on. I have been saying it for some time that Israel needs to stand up for itself with proper leadership. As long as there is a significant percentage of the Israeli Jews who are uncomfortable with the idea that ISRAEL IS A JEWISH STATE then the mind-set of negotiation and compromise will prevail. This will eventually lead to the detriment of Israeli interests and certainly NOT to peace. The mantra that you don’t make peace with friends is specious. The only way to make peace is to thoroughly vanquish your enemy so they are left with absolutely no hope of continuing their Jihad and at that point are willing to consider sitting down and
honestly coming to terms. Finally a radical change in leadership will only come into being when we have authentic values such as the ones espoused by Manhigut Yehudit (Moshe Feiglin) based on Torah values and the principle that Israel is firstly the Jewish State and secondly a democratic one.
yamit82 Said:
History repeats itself
America’s Founding Fathers and Judaism
By ELI KAVON
03/07/2010 [July 3 2010] Jerusalem Post
Some of American founders Christian anti Jewish beliefs:
While Thomas Jefferson upheld freedom of Jews in America to hold fast to their faith, he belittled Judaism in private. In an 1803 letter to Dr. Benjamin Rush, Jefferson accused Jews of having a “degrading and injurious” understanding of God that was “imperfect” and was devoid of “sound dictates of reason and morality.” Jews “needed reformation,” the Founding Father wrote, “in an eminent degree.”
Seventeen years later, in a letter to William Short, Jefferson claimed “Moses had bound the Jews to many idle ceremonies, mummeries and observances, of no effect towards producing the social utilities which constitute the essence of virtue.” It was Jesus, Jefferson wrote, who “exposed their futility and insignificance.”
Adams wrote to an American-Jewish admirer in 1819. In the letter, Adams endorses the return of the Jews to their homeland in Israel. This proto-Zionist impulse sounds wonderful on the surface — but then Adams explains the reason for it: Once Jews return to the Land of Israel, they will “wear away some of the asperities and peculiarities of their character and possibly in time become liberal Unitarian Christians.”
It is clear that Adams, like all of America’s Founding Fathers, supported the Jews’ right to worship their God in peace and prosperity.
But as a typical man of the Enlightenment, Adams expects Jews to “see the light” and to leave Judaism.
Jews embrace Enlightenment and Emancipation even today, without realizing its ground rules. The American and French revolutionaries granted Jews citizenship and equality but did so fully expecting that Jews would assimilate into the majority culture. And, in fact, that is what is happening in America today. Assimilation and intermarriage are eroding American Jewry and sapping its vitality. Today’s ethnic pride and multiculturalism are not forces that are strong enough to stem the tide of the phenomenon of “the vanishing American Jew.”
@ Laura:
“Beware of Greeks bearing Gifts”!!! (Xena: Warrior Princess 🙂
@ Shy Guy:
Shy Guy Said:
I thought for a moment I was reading one of my own comments.
Eds says:
Freedom of religion for Israelis means that every Muslim Israeli has a right to believe his faith without interference from anyone else especially from Christians. That said as a Jew no Christian should be allowed to step on the soil of the Land of Israel anymore than any other pagan believer. Our beef with the Muslims is less theological than their desire to replace us with Muslims in the Land of Israel and many if not most act on their desire through violence against Jews. For that reason I would boot their sorry asses out of Israel but not necessarily because they worship Allah and revere Mohamed.
Judaism is not about tolerance it is about obeying G-d’s laws. Many of those laws state that we have a duty and obligation to behead those who practice in public foreign worship. Christianity is considered foreign worship according to Jewish law.
I always found it curious that many Christians coming to Israel wear Christian symbols of a GOLD cross. now I believe Jesus preached, modesty and poverty. How curious his followers flaunt such symbols of immodest wealth. If Jesus was hung on a gallows instead of a cross would Christians then wear a gallows around their necks?
Sorry Ted, I wasn’t insulting your beliefs. Apologies if you thought so. I was just supporting freedom of religion including for Israelis. Christian missionaries in Israel can convert the arab moslems there that is something that Jews should support, if done the right way, we need to join forces, your Rabbi’s need to get on board instead of rejecting Christianity.
I agree with Shy Guy in #9. Christians must accept what he is saying and avoid the topic of their beliefs. They are offensive to us. Whether you agree or not, accept what we say and stop insulting us and disrespecting us.
@ Eds:
Do not mistake my tolerence for and embrace of Christians with my condoning of conversion which I do not do.
It is not a matter of whether you force it on us. It is a matter of disrespect. It says, as you do above, that your beliefs are superior. I reject that totally. Do not come into our house, Israel, and disrespect us by trying to convert us. When you do,you are our enemy. This is also a matter of self defense. People who try to convert us are as much an enemy of the Jewish people as the Arabs are.
Eds Said:
Yeh, the boiling in oil and rack techniques have been discarded.
They just can’t stop shoving their dead jesus sh*t on us, can they?
Here, ignorant christian (it’s a big club): Isaiah 9:5-6 – Historic Events or Messianic Prophecy?
When are you going to stop replaying the same bogus tripe you’ve ensnare the ignorant with for so long? Lying for jesus! If it was good enough for Paul, I suppose it’s good enough for you.
Ted thank you for your support, and defending Christians. Contrary to popular belief, Christians are not forcing anyone to convert. In Israel, those who choose the Prince of Peace, Jesus, (an ever growing number) realise they were in the dark before, unlike the moslim nazi’s they will not kill you, and will happily lay down their lives defending Israel. islam’s pagan moon god has no place in israel.
On the contrary. I’m attacking him for what he wrote he believes about Jews. Open up your eyes and get a clue!
I met the author a couple of years ago. He has lived in Israel for many decades and has I think four kids each of whom is serving in the IDF. Stop attacking Christians generically and on principle.
He is entitled to his Christian beliefs and we to our Jewish or atheistic beliefs. He is an Israeli and pro-Israel. Stop slamming him.
Laura Said:
Here’s why:
Esser Agaroth: Glen Beck, Insane Jews, And Their Universe
@yamit82 –
Why? The Christian Zionist Center passionately supports the right of Israel to keep the territories. This is more than I can say for most Jews.
“Israel really needs to think the same way. Justice and common decency require that our side never lifts its hand in an unjust cause but, if we have to lift our hand in a just one, the aggressor is going to go down and never get up again.”
now THESE are words of wisdom. i tip my hat off to you sir!
can stay.@ Shy Guy:
We should have closed the Christian Embassy years ago and booted his sorry ass back to Holland or Hell. His son served in the IDF so maybe he can stay.
This would be the same Jan Willem van der Hoeven as the one who wrote in 1969 (“The Root of Your Faith”, New Wine Magazine):
Not from his honey and not from his sting.