With a new U.S. president, new ideas are emerging on how to resolve the Israel-Palestine debacle. One of the most promising comes from the Jordanian Opposition Council who favor a new Palestinian state — in Jordan.
The GOP unanimously approved a pro-Israel platform at their convention in July 2016 which stipulated:
“The U.S. seeks to assist in the establishment of comprehensive and lasting peace in the Middle East, to be negotiated among those living in the region,”
David Friedman and Jason Greenblatt, representing Donald Trump, participated in the drafting and were in complete agreement with the final text.
Gone was any reference to the Palestinian people or to a two-state solution. In addition, the platform included the words “We reject the false notion that Israel is an occupier.” If not an “occupier,” then presumably Israel is a sovereign.
Accordingly, the search is on for an alternate solution. Such a solution could take inspiration from the short-lived Feisal/Weizmann Agreement of 1919. The essence of this agreement was that Palestine as it then was, was to be divided into two states, one for the Arabs and one for the Jews. Chaim Weizmann on behalf of the Jews agreed to help develop the Arab state and Emir Feisal agreed to welcome Jewish settlement in the Jewish state and favored friendly cooperative relations.
Although the British didn’t breathe life into this agreement, they did separate Trans-Jordan from Palestine in 1922 with the Jordan River being the boundary between them. Trans-Jordan (Jordan) thus got 78% of the lands promised to the Jews. The remaining 22% consisting of the land between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean was to be the Jewish state. This was enshrined in the Palestine Mandate signed by the League of Nations in 1922.
On June 30, 1922, a joint resolution of both Houses of Congress of the United States unanimously endorsed the “Mandate for Palestine,” confirming the irrevocable right of Jews to settle in Palestine—anywhere between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea.
With respect to the Arabs living in Jewish Palestine, the Congressional Record contained the following:
“(2) That if they will not consent to Jewish government and domination, they shall be required to sell their lands at a just valuation and retire into the Arab territory which has been assigned to them by the League of Nations in the general reconstruction of the countries of the east.
(3) That if they will not consent to Jewish government and domination, under conditions of right and justice, or to sell their lands at a just valuation and to retire into their own countries, they shall be driven from Palestine by force.”
The US was not a member of the League of Nations at this time. In order to be able to protect American interests in Palestine, she entered into the 1924 Anglo-American Convention in which the U.S. bound itself to the terms of the Mandate. This of course meant the recognition of Jewish right to close settlement of Palestine and that all of Palestine was to be the Jewish homeland.
Since then, there were a number of unsuccessful attempts, contrary to the terms of the Mandate, to further divide Jewish Palestine into two states. UN General Assembly Resolution 181, passed in 1947, recommended partition, but was rejected by the Arabs. The Jews on the other hand took advantage of it and declared their independence in 1948. Israel owes its independence to that declaration and not to Resolution 181, which was only a recommendation, precipitating the move.
Nothing has happened of any legal consequence since, to cancel the right of the Jews to settle and be sovereign over all the land to the Jordan River.
To date Israel has been reluctant to claim sovereignty over these lands as the Arabs living there would then demand citizenship resulting in a binational state. This is unacceptable to most Israelis. They also reject the two-state solution.
So what is the alternative?
Consider for a moment, that if Jordan agrees to grant citizenship to all Palestinians, as their law currently provides, and invites the return of all of them to live and work in Jordan, the conflict would soon be ended. While King Abdullah isn’t about to do so, the Jordan Opposition Coalition (JOC) would. This coalition represents all opposition groups in Jordan that back a secular state. The JOC since its creation six years ago has supported good relations with Israel. It does not include groups that support terrorism. This alliance has agreed to work together in order to form the government of Jordan should King Abdullah abdicate. Although at least 75% of Jordanians are Palestinians, the King has disenfranchised them to a great extent in favor of the ethnic Hashemites and Bedouins.
The JOC has produced a detailed plan, Operation “Jordan in Palestine,” which clearly identifies their goals and the operational steps needed to implement their plan. Copies are available upon request.
All that is necessary for this to come to pass is for the U.S. to instruct the king, who currently spends most of his time outside Jordan, to not return home. Then it would arrange for the Jordanian army, which it controls, to support the next popular Palestinian uprising, and to designate who among them would form the interim government.
The JOC, puts it this way:
This plan seeks to execute a feasible two-state solution where Jordan is the natural homeland for all Palestinians, and Israel becomes sovereign over all soil west to the River Jordan. This could only happen if the corrupt, terror-supporting and double-speaking Hashemite royal family leaves Jordan. The Palestinians often revolt against the regime but the king’s police force puts them down. The American media ignore this solution to the unrest in Jordan.
What is needed is for the U.S. to influence the Jordanian army and security agency to stand with the revolution the next time it breaks out. The security agencies and army are already securing the country without any influence from the king who is mostly abroad. Under these conditions, the king would not return. Once that happens an interim government of secular Palestinians who want peace with Israel could be appointed.
Once the interim government is installed, it will strengthen the economy by stopping theft of government money and ending corruption. It will fully enfranchise the Palestinians. All Palestinians around the world would be welcomed to return to Jordan pursuant the current Jordanian citizenship act, which already recognizes all Palestinians as citizens of Jordan. Many Palestinians will emigrate to Jordan in part because many have family members and friends living in Jordan. Work opportunities as well as a rewarding benefits/welfare system will be made available to them by the new interim government as further inducement.
Israel, with many international partners, including the U.S., could finance the building of a new Jordanian city of 1 million people. This would greatly stimulate the Jordanian economy and would provide work for the returning Palestinians. The new homes could be made available to the returnees and locals at subsidized prices further incentivizing people to return. The ending of King Abdullah’s discrimination against Palestinians living in Jordan, would also contribute to making Jordan a desired immigration destination.
Michael Ross, a Republican, wrote after the election of Donald Trump, “Trump Must Speak to Mudar Zahran“ because Zahran offers the alternate solution that Pres Trump is looking for.
As part of this solution, all Palestinian refugees enrolled with UN Relief And Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East could be repatriated to Jordan and given citizenship. Thus UNRWA could be wound up and the current UNRWA funding could be transferred to Jordan to assist in the resettlement.
According to Moshe Feiglin, the head of the Zehut Party in Israel, the Oslo Accords have cost Israel over 1 trillion shekels since they were signed. In addition, Israel has borne the cost of three military campaigns in Gaza. Finally, Israel supplies to the Palestinians their energy, water and sewage treatment for free or at greatly subsidized prices.
Last summer, Feiglin proposed a Solution in which Israel extends Israeli law from the Mediterranean to the Jordan:
We will give the Arab population in those territories three options: The first is voluntary emigration with the aid of a generous emigration grant. The second is permanent residency, similar to the “Green Card” status in the US – not like what is currently the practice in East Jerusalem. This status will be offered to those Arabs who publicly declare their loyalty to the State of Israel as the state of the Jewish Nation. We will safeguard their human rights and will not do anything like we did to ourselves in Gush Katif. The third option will be reserved for relatively few Arabs, and only in accordance with Israeli interests. Those who tie their fate to the fate of the Jewish Nation, like the Druze, can enter a long-term process of attaining citizenship.
Martin Sherman has published a similar plan which he calls the “Humanitarian Solution” as opposed to a strictly political solution. He summarized all his writings in support of such a plan and published them here.
With an estimated $300,000 per family grant, both he and Feiglin have estimated that incentivized compensated emigration will cost Israel over $200 billion USD but both argue it is feasible and worth doing.
The repatriation of Palestinians to Jordan, as proposed by JOC, would greatly facilitate the Palestinian emigration and greatly reduce the grants needed to incentivize it. UNRWA and the Palestinian Authority would both be wound up.
1.75 million Palestinians live in Judea and Samaria (West Bank). The 800,000 Arabs in Hebron, Nablus, Ramallah, and Bethlehem could remain there as Jorandian citizens. Ramallah is only 42 miles from Amman, the capital of Jordan. A new highway could be built connecting all these cities to Amman. The rest would have to be transferred to Jordan.
The 1.8 million Palestinians living in Gaza, of which 1.3 million are registered as refugees, would be incentivized to emigrate to Jordan. After enough leave, Israel could extend its sovereignty to Gaza thereby ending that perennial problem.
Considering the subsidies that the West provides to UNRWA, Gaza and the PA, this would be a bargain. Given that JOC has tied its fate to Israel, Israel would be happy to contribute to such a solution as the present conflict costs her hundreds of millions of dollars annually.
It really is that simple. There is much more that can be said in support of it.
Prof. Hillel Frisch, a senior research associate at the Begin-Sadat Center for Strategic Studies and Yitzhak Sokoloff, a fellow of the Ingeborg Rennert Center for Jerusalem Studies at Bar-Ilan University recently wrote Trump and the Jordanian Option.
The inauguration of an American administration uncommitted to the principle of an independent Palestinian state provides Israel with the opportunity to advocate a long-term strategic vision of building up a prosperous Jordan that could provide an alternative to the model of a two-state solution based on the Palestinian Authority.
They are wrong to suggest that this can be done with King Abdullah. I believe, as does the JOC, that the king is part of the problem and must be replaced by Palestinians.
Gideon Saar, a touted future Prime Minister of Israel, in his recent article, Goodbye Two-State Solution, wrote:
A Jordanian-Palestinian federative solution would offer the Palestinians space in addition to their autonomy. We could also consider adopting a joint Israeli-Jordanian-Palestinian economic framework. And there are many other ideas that could be constructed as a result of quiet, serious work with the backing of a supportive US administration.
He is right but the ultimate alternate solution is the one put forward by the JOC.
If anyone wants more information or can help this solution get traction, please write me (tbelman3@gmail.com).
Addendum
David Singer suggested drawing a new border in the Israel Jordan peace agreement. I suggest it should be here.
Shiloh and Beit El must remain in Israel yet they lie east of the new road. In some place the new road can be moved a little to the west if there are significant Arab populations to be included. And look at Ariel. It too must be kept on the Israeli side. A very crooked road. That’s why I came to the conclusion that maybe its better to move them all out.
On second thought I have an alternate suggestion:
Rather than draw a new border, transfer the 1.7 million Arabs in J&S and perhaps 100,000 from Jerusalem to Jordan
But leave the Arabs in Gaza. Israel should put Jordan in power there even if she has to defeat Hamas to do so.
Thus only 1.8 million Arabs from J&S and east Jerusalem would have to move.
One more thing. We could build a highway from Gaza to Jordan . This highway could be open to Egyptian traffic and thus Egypt would finally have a land bridge to Jordan which they want. Jordan would thus gain a port on the Mediterranean.
“Paradigm shift on a two-state solution
Op-ed: Promoting Jordan as the Arab Palestinian state is consistent with international law and would resolve the problem of national self-determination both for Arabs living in Judea and Samaria and for those in Israel.
Moshe Dann|Published: 04.05.17 , 23:42”
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4957389,00.html
He would leave the PA in place if it renounces terror but call Jordan Palestine with King intact. Not sure what this exercise in semantics without teeth would accomplish unless he thinks it would remove international pressure for Israel to give up land and discriminate against Jews. But, would it? Golda also said Jordan was Palestine but she made it clear that from the Mediterranean to the borders of Iraq, there can only be one Jewish and one Arab state, she never considered giving up Gaza, Jerusalem or the Golan Heights, though she was willing to negotiate parts of Judea and Samaria, which I disagree with completely.
However, one rationalizes it, Israel must never give up land at the negotiating table. Obviously, there’s not much you can do at the point of a gun, but that’s not what’s been happening. This should be a basic law. To the counter-argument that ruling over hostile foreign populations, i.e., Muslim Arabs, would create a contradiction between Jewish Majority and democracy, I say, “nonsense”.
Democracy is another term that lends itself to myriad interpretations as to who is and is not included. At the end of the day, it’s all semantics. Israel must stand up for Jews. As for the others, they can leave if they want — which was more than Jews could do from Communist countries, and from Muslim countries except when they decided to expropriate and expel us with only the clothes on our backs.
Who remembers this, also from 1993?
“We hope you will consider declining to grant Syria any additional aid” until “Syria, at a minimum, completes the one gesture in human rights which it began — permitting all those Jews remaining in Syria who desire to travel to do so,” the senators wrote.”
http://www.jta.org/1993/11/18/archive/senators-concerned-for-syrian-jews-ask-european-body-to-deny-syria-aid
:
For starters, Israel needs to de-magnetize its powerful welfare magnet.
Then the tax leeches, who seek to come to Israel in order to receive its “free” this-&-thats, would stay put.
All of Israel’s current tax leeches — Arab and Jew alike — would LEAVE.
MELECH david Said:
Knickers in a knot
makes one squirm a lot.
@ mrg3105:
De Nial is a river, too. Or do you seriously think we are going to get Jordan back, much less all the land from the brook of Egypt (whichever one that is, easier to just say, the Nile) to the Euphrates? I once read an article by Arafat in which he accused us of wanting to deport them all to Saudi Arabia and claim all the land from the Nile to the Euphrates and I have seen documentaries with man-in-the-street interviews with the pals in which many people said that. I think it’s a great idea even if I’m not holding my breath. Can you shrink it to a three word slogan?
@ Sebastien Zorn:
“Jordan is a river”
@ ArnoldHarris:
But, now that I think about it, it still makes a great unifying slogan for the national camp. Can you think of another way of saying everything west of the Jordan for the Jews in three catchy words:
“Jordan is Palestine.”
Should be bumperstickers everywhere
Ted Belman Said:
Historical Gaza was a small coastal city of the Plishtim before Hellenistic time. In later times the region of a number of villages was called Gaza after that city. By 1915 the total population of the Gaza region was no more than 15,000, and by 1932 increased to 32,000 largely as a result of supporting British communications between Egypt and the Mandate, and because of the people that were stranded there that British Authorities would not allow entry into the Mandate. This population was swelled y 200,000 largely Egyptian citizens that fled there pending promissed defeat of the Jews in 1948. These refugees were then forced to remain in Gaza under Egyptian military administration until 1967. Their repatriation was not addressed by the Camp David negotitions because they were still considered Egyptian citizens by all parties involved.
Jordan is Palestine.
Great idea.
But it can’t happen unless and until somebody gets rid of Alfie.
Even if Alfie” is a descendant of the prophet Muhamed. Or maybe I should have said “because” rather than “even if”.
Arnold Harris, Outspeaker
@ veet vivarto:
I read once that of the 1.7 million Gazans, 1.3 million are refugees under UNRWA. Thus they fled from J&S to Gaza.
Brilliant! Finally the Jewish brains are beginning to work!
Baruch Hashem! Meet with Feiglin first! It is only because of our Jewish identity that we received this land !
Ted,
From my reading about the subject I am under the impression that at least 1/2 of Gaza population is Egyptian. They are not related to the “Palestinians” from Jordan and Judea and Samaria.
Gazan should be expelled to Sinay under a similar arrangement with Egypt.
Al Sisi would love to get $250 billion and to build a few cities in Northern Sinai. A properly executed transfer of the population would eliminate all Hamas influence and put all Gazans under control of Egyptian authorities.
In any case, Gaza and its Arab population cannot and must not be a part of Jordan.
Gaza, just like Judea, Samaria including Ramallah, Hebron, and “Nablus”, belong to Israel as per League of Nation agreement. Anything less than that will just continue to create problems. Resolve it once and for ever.
And last but no least.
Get rid of majority of the Israeli Arabs.
Stop supporting them. Stop investing into making them economically equal. Put all welfare and all other benefits under Jewish agencies rather than under the state of Israel, so that Arabs get no Jewish money.
Edgar G. Said:
No, you are not. R. Kahane wrote about such incidents in his book, “They Must Go.” You see these incidents reported all the time. Somebody should compile them.
A recent case in point:
https://www.algemeiner.com/2017/02/28/go-figure-a-guy-i-drank-coffee-with-was-suddenly-the-enemy-recounts-israeli-who-miraculously-survived-ax-bludgeoning-at-hands-of-palestinian-co-worker/
The problem with this ARTICLE is the title.
There is no Palestine or Palestinians.
There are only OFFICIALLY refugee populations administered by UNRWA.
UNRWA has an unfinished job to do, which is to relocate the said refugee populations to either their countries of origin or other host states willing to take them.
“Israel has a legal, historical and moral right to the land of Israel west of the Jordan River.” Actually the same applies to East of the Jordan River.
EVERYONE who is engagingin intellectualising over this issue is WASTING TIME & EFFORT because the borders of Israel were defined over 2,500 years ago. This CANNOT be undone, and no matter what plans and actions people take, the result will still be the same, the reinstatement of the borders as sanctified by Ezra. The proof is in the very existence of Israel, the only nation to be reinstituted as a state after 2,000 years.
The problem is the same for all concerned…failure to recognise the Higher Authority on the matter.
That this should be true for Christians, Muslims and Atheists is to be expected since all are believers in something or rather that is either false or misleading or both, but for members of the People Israel to join their ranks is mind-boggling until one remembers that we are near Pesakh which reminds us that many members of Am Yisrael chose slavery over freedom. The wrong is always easier than the harder right thing to do.
My HK”BH grant koakh to leaders of Israel, and grant Israel a leader of koakh.
@ Bear Klein:
Bingo! Except jailed terrorists are always released and can threaten from within prison. Death penalty must be mandatory and swift regardless of age or gender.
FORGET THE PAST HISTORIES AND NARRATIVES. ASK WHO IS MAKE THE BEST AND HIGHEST USE OF THE LAND? THE ISRAELIS, NOT THE ARABS.
Any settlement of “Palestinian” issues should come out of bilateral agreements between Israel, on one hand, and Jordan and Egypt on the other. The PA should have no voice in the matter, and should be disbanded.
The details are up to Israel and its two peaceful neighbors to decide.
I personally do not favor any forced population transfers. Neither do I favor any resettlement of distant descendants of claimants of “special-category UNWRA refugee” status on one square inch of Israel. The grandparents and great-grandparents of those people made a choice of what country they wanted to live in, and have had 69 years to resolve the matter. Very few of them are even alive.
It remains to be seen, whether Jews will be able to live in peace and without molestation in a “secular” Jordan, or whether a secular Jordan is even possible. I wish all parties the best.
“Knickers in a knot” rhymes with what??
It is always a bit funny that after 2 centuries of reproaching the British, Spanish and other empires an American educated person comes out with this piece of pure imperial population shuffling like some Assyrian king. If you do wish to play this game and deport all Moslem Arabs West of the Jordan into Jordan then a least retain the Christians and encourage them to take up Aramaic.
Second to make such a scheme work Jordan will have to withdraw all distinctions between families originating in Trans-Jordan and families from Cis-Jordan.
Third all the scally who have made themselves a PA/PLO career will need locking up or compulsory residence in the sticks – preferably in El Jafr.
Please get a new picture. You look like a schlub!! It distracts from the quality of your content.
Give the Arabs NOTHING. Clearing out Gaza will eliminate the WB’s orientation to the Mediterranean Sea and toward Jordan, where the balance of the population can be absorbed. Multi-stage process. Simply make it too expensive to live in Israel. It’s happening here in Los Angeles. Poor people just move to Las Vegas, Nevada.
Enforce the tax collection laws. Create housing shortages for Arabs that will up rentals. Enforce building codes strictly. Demand better schools and facilities and make Arabs pay for them. Keep up the pressure to demand modern infrastructure that they don’t want to pay for. The West will not object to the modern standards, but they will just leave rather than comply or pay. Self-deporation for the Arabs.
@ Edgar G.:
I understand your feelings.
Holding a carrot for those who wish to truly become part of the state. I like what Feiglin proposed better than what I came up with in part when he suggested those who wish to part with the state like the Druze can become citizens.
It is better to partner with the few who would take this offer and actually qualify for it then to fight every last single Arab because no matter what they do they could not stay.
I would not object to them all leaving but I do not believe this is realistic.
@ david singer:
xxx
The Best, the ONLY answer you could have made. But far below a Disraeli bon mot. Rather like the crack shot who shoots the bullet first and then draws a circle around it. As a side-note I thought it rather short, compared to what it merited…
Vale.
@ Bear Klein:
xxx
Regardless of 10 years good behaviour and 2 years investigation, it’s utter madness to take in a single Arab as a citizen. He will proliferate like a mink, and smuggle relatives in with forged papers already. Then go to a leftist court to demand that his relatives be allowed to join him in family re-unification process..So ONE Arab can turn into 50 Arabim in a generation. An Arab can be a good neighbour for 20-30 years, and then go one Friday night to a Mosque, listen to the imam breathing fire and thunder on the Jews and wake up to the realisation that he has been a bad Muslem and to put things right he must go out and kill some Jews. I’m not making this up, I have seen reports of similar happenings from the same reasons a number of times.
I would not have an Arab living withing 1000 miles of me if I could help it. It is ingrained in his genes and it acts on him like alcohol did to the American Indians.
Israel will have to completely demilitarize Gaza to not keep having wars. Who knows what weapons they will bring into Gaza or build to create a serious security risk.
At some point the Gazans in large part may need to leave one way or the other. Either voluntarily or by force.
The Proposed Border does not work at all for security and leaves some Jewish Towns and villages and lots of farms in the Jordan Valley plus needed land for expansion. Not one Jew must be left adrift. You leave land for terrorists to kill Jews. A non acceptable bad idea!
The border must be the river Jordan and must include all the Jordan Valley. Feiglin proposal is similar to mine. I just specify a phased approach.
Israel has a legal, historical and moral right to the land of Israel west of the Jordan River.
1. However, except for a small amount of people on the right Israelis do not want to incorporate large amounts of Arabs into Israel. The public does not want a bi-national state.
2. To be able to buy Arabs properties and facilitate their peaceful emigration (buying them out) the terrorists must be jailed, deported or killed otherwise they will exact revenge on the families of those leaving or those leaving before they actually leave. They have a death sentence for selling properties to Jews.
Once you accomplish number 2 above an NGO working with the government should start enacting an humane assisted program of Arab emigration starting with East Jerusalem and Arab villages in Area C near Jewish Towns. Learn as you go and what problems come up. This will be fraught with problems imagined and not imagined. Just like a franchiser learns by first working on a few locations before expanding widely.
Annex Area C. Help the Arabs there emigrate.
Register the people there. Ask do you want to stay and demonstrate loyalty to the Jewish Democratic State of Israel.
This will require learning Hebrew; your children will be required to provide civil national service at age 18 to 20.
You will be required to inform on anyone planning terrorist acts including family members. This will be a condition of residency!
If after 10 years of residency they wish to apply for citizenship they may. There then will be at least a two year period to investigate if they have successfully fulfilled the requirements of residency prior to bestowing citizenship. If they and their immediate family have met the conditions citizenship can be bestowed upon them.
Once Israel has successfully integrated Area C it can then work on Areas A and B. Unless you can be sure you know how to successfully help Arabs emigrate overseas and integrate others why would anyone in their right mind make the approximately 1,500,000 Arabs (of Area A/B in Judah & Samaria) Israeli residents yet alone citizens. This is a terrorist’s dream, to be able to freely travel all over Israel with an Israeli ID card.
Walk before you run and go step by step in this super risky proposition of incorporating a massive amount of Arabs into the State of Israel. If you can be highly confident that you can help large amounts of Arabs emigrate then you could start annexing parts of Area A (a City at at a time). Israel should NOT bring an Arab Trojan Horse into Zion. If you can NOT make sure a large amount of Arabs will emigrate, not do annex these areas and make these people residents.
Edgar G
That is the longest long-winded apology I have ever seen – but it is accepted thank you.
xxx@ david singer:
xx
I saw that when I replied, and I don’t know what difference it makes as you have not changed your position. Also I commented that it didn’t matter if it were “a month or a year ago”. I assume, correctly I believe, that Ted’s article itself had been overtaken by an influx of others, so that it was pushed more and more onto a back page. It was first published on Feb 2nd and by feb 5th there were already 68 comments and on Feb.7th there were another 18. Then Mudar Zahran noticed it and sent in several of his own comments which were VERY significant.
You may not have noticed that the page before last held 50 comments, some very long, and all posted on Feb 9th. Some spilled over onto the next page, and the 50 more on the last page were almost all posted within a few days too. So posters interested in an article will comment as long as they can easily get at it. I think that Ted brought the article, which is really a superb exposition, and deserved widespread publication, forward a bit the other day. I know myself, that I found it easily, and after your 15th Feb post, already there was a 14th March post. Mine was on 15th March as you so cleverly noticed.
Anyway, I am not prepared to take more time to pursue this fruitless exchange about individual absolute irrelevancies. One must be really looking for “brownie points” to bother bringing them up. Also your penchant for prurience is not to my taste, so I bid you..as the old song goes…”Good Bye, Good Luck, g-d Bless you”… and, for myself, a few words of another old song. “with a little bit of luck, a little bit of luck..” I’ll be rid of this nonsense.
I would not be surprised if you could take off your shirt without unbuttoning the collar. Not at all surprised.
However I apologise…… for my stupidity in taking any notice of your bloviations at all. After all I’m not a clever “chap” like you.
@ Edgar G.:
Edgar G
You state:
“My post, to which you have just now replied, and to which now I am reacting, (all this so that even you can understand it clearly, snd see the pertinent point) is a response to your post #34, and as you can see, my post, to which you make your unseemly remark about “knickers” (you don’t mention if a woman’s undergarment or Harry Vardon’s golf pants) is # 38, written and posted very shortly -in time- after yours.”
For your information:
1. My post #34 is dated 15 February 2017.
2. Your response is #36 – not #38 – and is dated 15 March 2017.
If you call your post written one month after my post as being very shortly in time after mine – then you and I have very different ideas of what constitutes a “short time”.
How could I be “relentlessly hounding” Ted to produce his second draft map when the last occasion I broached it was on the 15th February?
I am afraid you have now been well and truly caught with your underpants down.
An apology would be welcomed.
@ david singer:
xx
“Knickers in a knot” (low Cockney slang) is such a demeaning and negating phrase meant to take down the opponent a few pegs, or shut him up. I do not welcome such crude remarks addressed to me on THIS site, known for the select -if sometimes astringent-language of it’s posters.
I am surprised at your constructive denial of culpability in the matter of the boundaries.. The original date of posting is not even in the mix, as my protest posts stem from your (in my opinion) relentless hounding of Ted to produce his “2nd draft”, which he is clearly intentionally dilatory about, andwhich he had explained more than once.
My post, to which you have just now replied, and to which now I am reacting, (all this so that even you can understand it clearly, snd see the pertinent point) is a response to your post #34, and as you can see, my post, to which you make your unseemly remark about “knickers” (you don’t mention if a woman’s undergarment or Harry Vardon’s golf pants) is # 38, written and posted very shortly -in time- after yours. I care not when your original post was printed a month or a year ago…., as all the following pressure on Ted I complain about, stems from it.
So let’s talk instead about YOUR underpants, and how best for YOU to keep from untimely, embarrassing “accidents”….
Would be interested if you could give your specific reasons.