(Western conventional wisdom vs. Middle East reality)
By Ambassador (ret.) Yoram Ettinger, “Second Thought: a US-Israel Initiative”
Secretary of State, Antony Blinken, reiterates his commitment to the establishment of a Palestinian state west of the Jordan River.
*According to Western conventional wisdom, the establishment of a Palestinian state west of the Jordan River would promote the cause of peace, stabilize the Middle East and advance Western interests.
*However – just like its policy toward Iran’s Ayatollahs – Western conventional wisdom overlooks the rogue intra-Arab Palestinian track record in Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon and Kuwait, the despotic and corrupt nature of the Palestinian Authority and its abhorrent hate-education, and the impact of such a track record upon the rogue nature of the proposed Palestinian state. The West takes lightly the adverse impact of such a rogue state upon the Middle East, the survival of pro-Western Arab regimes (e.g., Jordan and the Arabian Peninsula entities) and vital Western interests.
*Contrary to Western conventional wisdom, Arabs are aware of the Palestinian track record – just as they are aware of the Ayatollahs’ track record – and are certain that the proposed Palestinian state would resemble the non-controllable, lawless and terroristic Syria, Iraq, Yemen and Libya much more than the moderate United Arab Emirates. Therefore, they have limited their support of Palestinians to a very positive talk, while conducting a lukewarm-to-negative walk.
*Contrary to Western conventional wisdom, Arabs have never flexed their military muscle (and hardly their financial and diplomatic muscle) on behalf of Palestinians. For example, no Arab-Israel war was ever launched on behalf of Palestinians, and no Palestinian war on Israel was ever assisted by Arab military.
*Contrary to Western conventional wisdom, Arabs have experienced the Palestinian trait of brutally-biting the (Arab) hand that feeds them: Egypt in the early 1950s, Syria in the 1960s, Jordan in 1968-1970, Lebanon in 1970-1982, Kuwait in 1990.
*Contrary to Western conventional wisdom, which considers the Palestinian issue as a primary/central concern in the Middle East, the Arab conduct reflects the conviction (notwithstanding the pro-Palestinian Arab rhetoric) that the Palestinian issue is not the crux of the Arab-Israeli conflict, neither a crown-jewel of Arab policy-making, nor a core cause of Middle East turbulence.
*Contrary to Western conventional wisdom and expectations, Egypt, Jordan, the United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, Morocco and the Sudan did not precondition their peace treaties with Israel upon the establishment of a Palestinian state.
*Contrary to Western conventional wisdom, which assumes that the Palestinian issue is central to Arab policy-making, Israel-Arab peace accords have been based on primary Arab interests – such as the lethal threats of Iran’s Ayatollahs and the Muslim Brotherhood terrorism, the need to diversify their economies and Israel’s effective posture of deterrence – which do not include the Palestinian issue.
*Contrary to all Western peace proposals (other than the Abraham Accords), which failed due to their preoccupation with the Palestinian issue, the six successful Israel-Arab peace treaties bypassed the Palestinian issue, denied the Palestinians a veto power, and were preoccupied with primary Arab national security interests, not with the Palestinian issue.
*While Western conventional wisdom assumes that the Palestinians – as well as Iran’s Ayatollahs – are amenable to peaceful-coexistence, democracy and good faith negotiation, Arabs recognize Palestinians as a role-model of intra-Arab subversion, terrorism, betrayal and ingratitude.
*Contrary to Western conventional wisdom, Arabs accord much prominence to Palestinian collaboration with rogue, despotic anti-Western entities, such as Nazi Germany, the USSR and the Soviet Bloc, Iran’s Ayatollahs, Saddam Hussein, Asian, African, European and Latin American terror organizations, the Muslim Brotherhood terrorists, Cuba, Venezuela and North Korea.
*Western conventional wisdom expects Israel to embrace its worldview, and ignore Middle East reality, in general, and the Arab experience, in particular.
*Western conventional wisdom expects Israel to follow in the footsteps of the pro-Palestinian Arab talk, while taking lightly the Arab walk and Middle East reality.
*Western conventional wisdom urges Israel to ignore the 120-year-long anti-Jewish Palestinian terrorism, hate-education and mosque incitement, notwithstanding dramatic Israeli concessions (e.g., the 1993 Oslo Accord and the 2005 Gaza Disengagement, which were followed – as expected – by waves of terrorism and hate-education). While the West assumes that Palestinians are preoccupied with the size of the Jewish State, the Palestinian track record has documented that they are preoccupied with the uprooting of the Jewish State from “the abode of Islam.”
*Western conventional wisdom pressures Israel to sacrifice Middle East reality on the altar of wishful-thinking and oversimplification.
*Western policy in the Middle East – as reflected by Western policy toward Iran’s Ayatollahs and the Palestinian issue – has been systematically wrong. For example, providing a critical tailwind to the Ayatollahs’ rise to power in Iran; embracing Saddam Hussein until the 1990 invasion of Kuwait; heralding Arafat as a messenger of peace; toppling Gaddafi, which transformed Libya into a platform of anti-Western Islamic terrorism and civil wars; welcoming the volcanic eruption on the Arab Street as an “Arab Spring” and “Facebook Revolution,” etc..
*While Western governments accord Palestinian leaders Red Carpet receptions, Arabs welcome Palestinian leaders with Shabby Doormat receptions (if at all…).
*Will Western conventional wisdom adjust itself to the Middle East and Palestinian reality, or will it persist in its suspension of disbelief? Sustaining the Western suspension of disbelief will add fuel to the Middle East fire, intensify threats to pro-Western Arab regimes, and further undermine commercial and national security Western interests.
@Tanna
You said that
If I am really into “antichrist diatribes” why wouldn’t I understand the theological error, etc.?
All I did was point out the mainstream Christian view about Jesus, i.e., that he is God, it was YOU who stated that it is a theological error.
No, I don’t think he is God but what does it have to do with anything?
All I did was to state what THEY think, that’s all, why do you keep dumping on me?
I don’t care for it but they do, I just stated what their mainstream belief is.
Reader, I may have assumed too much. but after reading many of your antichrist diatribes I think I got it right. but if not forgive me.
Zorn. You should not take everything as a Broigus, but I would suggest you find a good Orthodox Rabbi and spend some time learning at his feet.
Reposting – it is “awaiting moderation” for some odd reason.
Reader
January 9, 2023 at 5:54 pm
@Tanna
How did you come up with this one?
I merely stated that the mainstream Christian view has been (for almost 2,000 years) that Jesus is God:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity
and there is a doctrine of the divinity of Christ:
https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffsb&q=the+divinity+of+Christ&ia=news
In fact, if you state to a Christian who doesn’t belong to some dissenting sect that Jesus is a human prophet or teacher, it is taken as an insult.
What does my opinion (which I didn’t state, and you decided to guess – incorrectly) about it have to do with what the Christians believe?
@Sebastien Zorn
I hope this doesn’t cause the PA to “declare sovereignty” over the rest of Judea and Samaria (AKA the West Bank), thus giving us the TSS with the backing of the “world community”.
@Tanna
How did you come up with this one?
I merely stated that the mainstream Christian view has been (for almost 2,000 years) that Jesus is God:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity
and there is a doctrine of the divinity of Christ:
https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffsb&q=the+divinity+of+Christ&ia=news
In fact, if you state to a Christian who doesn’t belong to some dissenting sect that Jesus is a human prophet or teacher, it is taken as an insult.
What does my opinion (which I didn’t state, and you decided to guess – incorrectly) about it have to do with what the Christians believe?
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/365633
As I have oft opined, Muslims and Christians have gone from cute and cuddly fur balls to scary, reptilian monsters in a heartbeat, as we see here, over and over. Why? It’s our own fault for ignoring the three rules at our peril.
😀
https://medium.com/@Naturalish/gremlins-three-rules-an-evolutionary-analysis-de4c4fae2785
@Mr. Tanna I guess Mr. S. is traveling cross country in a covered wagon with no internet access after launching that offensive broadside and signing off, eh? 😀
Sorry, no can do. He’d be fair game if he were dead, himself, and he’s only visiting. 😀
I mean, when you get right down to it, what was Mr. Jesus but just another politician selling his wares in the marketplace of public opinion, right?
To paraprase and tweak the great theologian, Carl Von Clausewitz, ”
Religion is politics by other means.” 😀
@Tanna Oh, whatever. I think I’m going to refer to him as, “Mr. Jesus,” from now on – or better, “the Honorable Mr. Jesus, Esquire, Lately of the districts of Bethlehem and Nazareth” – or if I want to be confrontational in good, traditional Marxist fashion, “the late Messrs. Jesus & Co. ” – How’s them apples, Jack? 😀
Mr. Zorn i believe you are correct. If Yeshua went to church he would not recognize the place, or 97% of what they were saying or doing.
Reader is still not understanding the theological error of christian teaching that he is God. And they don’t seem to be the only ones calling something of their creation a god(keep reading)
As far as Michael. He’s not here to defend himself since he told us he was taking a road trip. So, knock it off! He’ll be back! 🙂
And how can it be claimed he was being antisemitic when he was just quoting Hashem.
I’m just glad Moses spoke up and reminder Hashem of his promise to Abraham.
Shemot(Exo.)32:7 And the LORD spoke unto Moses: ‘Go, get thee down; for thy people, that thou broughtest up out of the land of Egypt, have dealt corruptly; 8 they have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them; they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed unto it, and said: This is thy god, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.’ 9 And the LORD said unto Moses: ‘I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people. 10 Now therefore let Me alone, that My wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them
Jewish Publication Society of America, Torah Nevi’im U-Khetuvim. The Holy Scriptures according to the Masoretic Text. (Philadelphia, PA: Jewish Publication Society of America, 1917), Ex 32:7–10.
@Reader Lennie Bruce said he got asked a lot why the Jews killed Christ and he came up with two answers:
a) Because he didn’t want to be a doctor. That’s why we killed him.
b) Well, you know, it was one of those parties. Things kinda’ got out of hand.
😀
@AS1818
Yes, every Jew is either not Jewish or not a good Jew except, of course, for you, AS(an extra sibilant?)1818! (sarcasm)
BTW, how can you tell that a halachic Jew isn’t?
Please, share your secret with us.
P.S.
cosmopolitan, not cosmopolitical
@Sebastien Zorn
There was a touch of sarcasm in “remember?” but, seriously, there is a concept of “divinity of Christ” in the mainstream Christianity meaning that according to the Christian belief he IS God (and God is all-knowing, of course).
Believing that Jesus is merely a Jewish prophet is heresy for a Christian or an incorrect opinion when expressed by non-Christians, according to the mainstream view.
@Reader “He actually could see the future because he is God, remember?”
1)Those who read A7 constantly receive information about insane accusations against Jews. In addition, many of them read gentile websites that are overflowing with such comments. And they absolutely do not need an additive .
2)I have already written that the halachic definition is not adequate to reality today. Many of those who are listed as Jews, according to the halacha, are not really Jews. And only such pseudo-Jews can come up with the idea that anti-Semitism has disappeared somewhere.
3) The far-left pseudo-Jews, in their hatred of Israel and Jewry, align themselves with non-Jewish Judophobes. They need Israel to retreat further and further under the onslaught of Arabs and other Judophobes, to turn more and more into a Cosmopolitical state.
They are the ones who need such comments to prove their case. But for a real Jew, such comments cause nothing but contempt and disgust for Judophobes, as well as the realization that no further concessions to Arabs and other Judophobes are unacceptable.
@AS1818
@Sebastien Zorn
I think antisemitic comments must stay because they show the extent of the problem which otherwise would be minimized and would help the Jew to stay in denial about antisemitism.
Reality must be faced even though it hurts.
@Sebastien Zorn
He actually could see the future because he is God, remember?
Marx said he is not a Marxist in response to his son-in-law’s description of a “Marxist circle” discussion of (what they thought was) Marxism.
Otherwise, a great comment.
AS1818 Yes, I see. You have to click on reply. This is blood libel stuff. Wow! Should definitely be removed.
@ Sebastien Zorn
Unfortunately, they are in place. A certain Veronica Gerard wrote five answers, which contain classic anti-Semitic slander.
@AS1818 Didn’t see any. Maybe they removed them.
Here they write below that there should be no Judophobic slander on Jewish websites. I totally agree, but.
On A7 there is an op-ed “UN vs Israel — new year, same old story”.( Jack Engelhard).
In the comments to the article, some kind of Judophobic left a few typical slanders. I have twice appealed to the editorial board with a request to consider the issue and twice received a refusal. What is it?!
AS1818
You reminded me of an old joke:
Two Jewish friends are chatting and one says to the other,
“Say, did you hear the one that goes: “So, two Jews are walking…”
and his friend angrily interrupts,
“Why does it always have to be about two Jews. I’m sick and tired of all the stereotyping. People are people, OK?”
“OK, I’ll change it.”
He begins again.
“So two Moslems are walking into schul together for Mincha and one says to the other…”
😀
@Tanna This whole thing started when Michael responded to my posting Israel’s horrific terror statistics against Jews that this government was elected in response to by saying, in effect, ‘SO WHAT.” And then making a crack about stiff-necked Jews and saying he, and Americans, had his own problems so why should he care. Here.
I can’t find now the clip on PMW of a small Pal child saying so what? to Jews complaining of being murdered.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/palestinian-girl-brandishes-knife-in-facebook-video/
@Tanna One shouldn’t have to put up with antisemitic tropes anywhere, least of all on a Jewish website! After 2,000 years of persecution, Christians should be a little apologetic towards us, ya think? Yes, Christian Zionists have played a positive role over the last 200 years in France, England, and America but they have not been representative. Hey, there are Muslim Zionists, too. They are doing agreat job. All 8 of them.
@Tanna Just as Marx’s last words were reputed to have been, “I am not a Marxist,” if he could have seen the future, might not Jesus’ last words have been, “I am not a Christian.” ?
and, getting back to the topic, most definitely, “I am not a Palestinian.”
😀
Me thinks…… If you don’t want to listen to antisemitic remarks and tropes then maybe you should tone down the Anti-Christ remarks and tropes.
That might go over your head, but think about you might get it.
Reader, you need to educate yourself some on christian history and theology. The original christians where all Jews and then some gentiles / God fearers start believing and excepting these early Jews message about the Jew from Judah, Yeshua.
It was not for a hundred years or so before the Greek, platonic gentile’s took over the Christian groups and made Yeshua into a god. Why? because the temple had been destroyed for at least 100 years and the Jews where to busy trying to stay alive and I guess after the disputation at Barcelonia they just gave up. But, Jews cannot give up! They have a mission to bring light to the Nations and you better believe they have done a good job, although we are still not where we need to be.
By the way, that bible of yours you say the christians stole. Guess who made it the best-selling book in the world.
All christians are not bad just like all Jews are not good. Me thinks you might need to spend some time asking Hashem to take some of that hate for your brother out of your heart.
One other thing…… The christian bible N.T. does not teach a man god. Yesha knew who his God was just like every writer of the N.T. knew who God was and Yeshua wasn’t it. The church fathers after 175- 200 ad. misunderstood everything and the RCC and the Protestants have continued the lie for 1800 yrs. But one day they will go to the Jew(and they have been for 40yrs) and say teach us, our fathers have inherited lies.
@Reader
Because why? Do not the Muslims demand we Jews bow our heads or die and isn’t he refusing?
@Sebastien Zorn
It is amazing how Christians who stole other people’s bible (after about 1,500 of its existence), mistranslated it, misinterpreted it in order appropriate it and to blame those people for everything including the faked death of their Christian “God” tell the Jews that they should quit complaining about the Arab terrorism in Israel because the Arabs still kill fewer Jews in Israel than American criminals kill Americans in Chicago.
I mean, no one asks for their “Christian compassion”.
Imagine, if Jews are safe in the Promised Land, whose prophesies will have come true?
Not the Christian ones, that’s for sure.
@Sebastien Zorn
1) You are comparing apples and oranges (to say the least);
2) To compare Mordechai to Ben Gvir is to grievously insult Mordechai.
https://www.cnn.com/style/article/us-palestinian-authority-looted-antiquity-intl-scli/index.html
@Michael Good luck and safe travels on your trek. Personally. I don’t understand travel, survival aside. I never travel. I have an ipad and a phone, what do I need to to travel for?
😀
But have fun at your funeral.
@Michael
Actually it is. “Stiff-necked prideful ways” is one of the oldest antisemitic dog whistles and whenever I hear those words, my hackles automatically go up and I go into fight or flight mode. If you are going to talk to Jews and want things to remain amicable, you should know that about us by now.
I found that last comment in its entirety insensitive, to put it charitably.
Hi, Sebastien
Thanks for all the comments. You are correct: Israel and the US have two entirely different sets of problems. I think you can see why, when I go out into the streets of the Police State that I live in, where TWENTY Americans are killed for every Israeli that’s killed by the Pals, and you Israpunditers expect me to cry great crocodile tears for the Jews. We have a GENUINE problem here: We’re not just grandstanding. I hope all you Punditers can appreciate that.
Add on top of that, the fact that some of you want to blame Jesus and the Bible for everything bad that happens to Jews.You (especially Edgar, and sometimes Ted) seem to forget that a sizeable chunk of the Bible is dedicated to God reproving the Jewish people for their stiff-necked, self-prideful ways. That’s not some antisemite badmouthing you; it’s the King of the Universe! Yet you take out your gall on me and my fellow Christians, and ultimately on God himself. Do you expect me not to notice that?
Yes, Jews have a problem in all the world, of people who don’t like them. I pity them for that, and I sympathize with them. Americans in general are hated by some people everywhere. My son-in-law’s Chinese people have a long history of misrule, discrimination, persecution and genocide. This is life! It’s not antisemitism. That said, I have no sympathy for the Palestinians and other antisemites who continually try to make like miserable for you.
We’re getting ready to do some big-time, cross-country traveling to attend a funeral; so I don’t think I’ll be posting for several days. I wish everyone here the best, and the same to Jews everywhere. May Hashem bless you and keep you; may He turn his countenance toward you and bless you, and give you peace.
Shalom shalom 🙂
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/365529
Hooray!
https://www.jewishpress.com/news/israel/pa-un-envoy-to-israel-if-you-dont-stop-ben-gvir-we-will/2023/01/06/?utm_source=webpushr&utm_medium=push&utm_campaign=619681
@ Michael Not that it’s nothing, here, either. Diaspora Jews need Israel as a refuge but it has to be safe to be a Jew there. Anyone who poses a threat in that respect should go, nicely if possible. “Nicely, NIcely Johnson,” as my late father loved to quip.
Maurice Hirsch, Adv. | Dec 7, 2022
https://palwatch.org/page/32425
Hi, MIchael Israel has a much lower overall crime rate including homicide but an astronomically higher rate of homicide targeted at Jews, especially if you figure in thwarted attempts of which there were thousands just in the first half of last year, I am not exaggerating. Conflating the two kinds of statistics is like saying more people die in traffic accidents than in terrorist attacks and is in the same category as Holocaust minimization which is the dominant form of Holocaust denial today. Reminds me also of a debate I had with a defender of the Pals who said so what if Hamas fired thousands of missiles at Israel if Israel was able to deflect most of them with Iron Dome and protect Israelis with shelters; the fact that more Pals die because they don’t have these measures makes Israel the culprit because of the BS law of proportionality in war, without even getting into the fact that most of their casualties were terrorists.
Hi, Sebastien.
Mayor Lori Lightfoot’s Chicago Will End 2022 with at Least 723 Homicides
— https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/12/30/mayor-lori-lightfoots-chicago-will-end-2022-with-at-least-723-homicides/
vs.
Chicago, of course, is smaller than Israel, just for perspective. Is there a “two state solution” for Chicago?
Was Mordechai a conscious provacateur for refusing to bow before Haman?
“31 Israelis were murdered and 734 injured in terrorist attacks in 2022, according to data released by the Rescuers Without Borders organization.
In total, 7,386 terrorist attacks were committed in the previous year, including 1,153 cases of stone throwing, 1,036 Molotov cocktails thrown, 559 cases of tires set on fire and 84 explosives thrown.
44 car bombs were set off during the year and Jewish residents of Judea and Samaria encountered 53 cases of stone barriers.
96 shooting attacks were recorded in the past year, as well as nine stabbing attacks which resulted in casualties, six ramming attacks and one attack which included a combination of these methods.
The organization noted that those murdered by terrorists in 2022 left 18 widows and widowers and 67 orphans and that two victims of attacks from previous years died from their wounds during the year.
The organization further noted that its statistics do not include the hundreds of attacks on security forces during counterterror operations in the field, which include the throwing of stones and explosives and shooting attacks.”
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/365488
Frankly, no it didn’t. Of course, that is because it seems a pretty silly supposition which could only fuel the fantasies of someone obsessing over a delusion of provocateurs when in fact what took place was neither unexpected, nor outrageous nor inflammatory.
I respect Yoram Ettinger as an analyst, but I can’t agree with him.
We have already seen the reaction of Arab “friends” to such a banal event as the ascent of the Jew to the Temple Mount. And now imagine that Israel wants to perform much more serious actions.
I mentioned only four, although there are potentially many more.
1) Taking under legal and physical control of the Temple Mount.
2) Preparation for war with Iran, namely, the preventive defeat of Hezbollah, which has hundreds of thousands of missiles. If Israel do this seriously, Israel will have to level Southern Lebanon (at least).
3) Let’s assume that a final decision has been made to defeat Hamas.(for example, as part of the same preparation for war with Iran ) If you do this seriously, then you will have to forget about phone calls and tapping stones, and continuously bomb Gaza not for eleven days, but for at least a month, or even more.
4) The Arabs illegally built thousands of buildings in the C zone. To save Jewish Israel, they must be demolished, and demolished without putting it off for a long time. And demolish not one building a year, but demolish en masse. (I will leave aside the question of the Supreme Court of Israel for now)
And now think about what the reaction of ” friends ” will be to these or
other serious Israeli actions.
And will there be figures in Israel who are ready for serious actions that can offend ” friends ” ?
That’s why someone pretended to be a friend.
@AS1818
Has it occurred to you that Ben Gvir’s ascending the Temple Mount was possibly a conscious provocation to start another TSS “peace process”?
@AS1818
Tell it to these rabbis (the ones whose opinion Ben Gvir ignored):
1) Pay attention to the success achieved by the Arabs and their left-wing Israeli henchmen in psychological manipulations.
An absurd question is being discussed: can a Jew ascend the Temple Mount?
I am now referring specifically to the political side of this issue . He seems normal only because for many years the Arabs and their henchmen made him normal.
Imagine that an Arab enters the al-Haram Mosque. Now imagine that discussions begin in Saudi Arabia and other countries about whether he had the right to enter there. Can’t you imagine? Absurd? The same absurdity is the discussion of the question of the ascent of a Jew to the Temple Mount.
2) The real problem is that for many years that have passed since the Six-Day War, not a single politician has even tried to correct the gross mistake of General Dayan. And this despite the fact that Israel had the full political right (by right of the winner) to take control of this territory, and Israel also had a religious obligation to take control of it. (This was also understood by the Arabs, who began preparations for the relocation of their mosque).
And the current politicians don’t even think about it. Has Netanyahu made such a proposal at least once ? – No, he did not make such a proposal. Is this in the plans of the “extreme right” Ben-Gvir and Smotrich? – They don’t have that in their plans.
Ah., yes. I almost forgot. Danny Danon “allowed” Ben-Gwir to ascend the Temple Mount. I can already hear stormy and prolonged applause, which smoothly turns into a long ovation.
3) Despite the savage persecution, the Jews carried the torch of Judaism forward for hundreds of years.
And every year they raised a famous toast.
Think about it : Were they toasting Jerusalem, where a Jew who silently prays on the Temple Mount is arrested?
Or did they mean something completely different?
Danon backs Equality on the Temple Mount and sovereignty in Jordan Valley.
– “MK Danny Danon: ‘Ben-Gvir has the right to go up to the Temple Mount’
Likud MK Danny Danon discusses his goals for the new Knesset term and why he turned down a ministerial appointment.”
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/365426