The peace camp still doesn’t get it

Shavit starts off by affirming that in the 1st day after the end of the Six Day’s War, the Left “understood that the occupation would corrupt us and the settlements were pointless.” Such affirmation needs to be challenged. With that mentality the Temple Mount was given to the Wakf. Big mistake. One could write a full article on why they were wrong then but I’ll leave that to you the readers.

Shavit excoriates the left for not seeing today’s reality and coming up with a third way like Clinton did. But he has no suggestions as to what the third way might be other than to say that “our most important national enterprise is dividing the land.” Really? Given today’s reality how is that possible or advisable? Ted Belman

Peace is dead, long live peace
Just as Clinton revived the Democratic Party in the 1990s, the Zionist left must revive itself and offer a third way.

By Ari Shavit, HAARETZ

 An Israeli anti-war rally in Tel Aviv. July 19, 2014.
An Israeli left wing activist holds olive branches, during a demonstration against Israel’s offensive in the Gaza Strip, in Tel Aviv, Israel. July 19, 2014. Photo by AP

The tale of the Israeli left is a sad one. In the summer of 1967, the Zionist left was correct. On the seventh day of the Six-Day War, it already understood that the occupation would corrupt us and the settlements were pointless. It fought bravely against the rejectionism of Prime Minister Golda Meir and the messianism of the Gush Emunim settlement movement, as well as the general hawkishness of Likud. But the left’s great mistake was that it conjured a magical faith in the possibility of ending the occupation via the metaphysical promise of peace now.

This serious (almost religious) faith in an immediate and comprehensive peace was shaky even at the end of the 20th century, but it has become utterly groundless in the 21st century. But the left refused to recognize this clear and bitter fact.

Its view of the past didn’t really leave room for the rejectionism of Yasser Arafat and Mahmoud Abbas, or for the steadily growing power of Hamas. Its view of the present didn’t really leave room for Islamic fundamentalism, Arab chaos and Palestinian extremism. The rational, moral and Zionist political movement of the 1960s and ‘70s lost its identity and way. It became detached from reality.

The goal to which the Israeli left has aspired for 47 years is the correct one: a two-state solution. If we don’t divide the land, Israel will either cease to be Jewish, cease to be democratic or cease to be. If we don’t end the plague of the settlements, the plague will do us in. Israel must pursue and test peace, but even in the absence of peace, it must act resolutely and wisely to end the occupation.

Even though the peace camp aspired to the right goal, it ignored the fact that withdrawals for the sake of peace brought us exploding buses on Dizengoff Square, suicide terrorists at the Dolphinarium discotheque and rockets that reached all the way to Hadera. The peace movement never addressed the fact that the Palestinians effectively rejected the peace initiatives of U.S. President Bill Clinton and prime ministers Ehud Barak and Ehud Olmert. The peace elite still behaves as if it hasn’t noticed that Iran is going nuclear, the Arab nation-states are collapsing and the Islamic State is cutting off heads.

The conceptual world of the people supposed to be the most informed, open and critical remains dogmatic, anachronistic and ossified. Their perception of reality relates only to half of reality; it ignores everything that has happened in this country over the past 20 years, and everything that has happened in the neighboring countries over the past two years.

The Big Bang happened in 2000. Exactly 14 years ago, Israel’s most generous peace offer led to the worst terror attack on Israel. The trauma of the second intifada after Camp David left a deep burn on the Israeli psyche, something that 13 years ago was supposed to make people on the Zionist left do some soul-searching. We should have realized that something went wrong, that our basic assumptions did not match reality and that we had to redefine ourselves.

Just as Clinton revived the Democratic Party in 1992 and Tony Blair revived Labour in 1997, Labor, Meretz and the peace movements should have revived the Zionist left in the early 2000s. If we had been serious – serious statesmen, serious intellectuals and serious religious opinion leaders – we would have offered Israelis a third way already in the middle of the last decade.

But we did not, and in not doing so we failed badly. We are thus going from bad to worse, weeping and wailing along the way. We have played into the hands of the right wing and are keeping Benjamin Netanyahu’s government in power. We are preventing the sharing of the land and building settlements. Instead of having an alternative, adult and responsible leadership that the Israeli people can trust, we have a gang of bitter adolescents cursing, abusing and going after any member of the fold who dares to leave and speak the truth.

Here is the truth: The emperor has no clothes. Better put, the king is dead. The attempt to resurrect the old idea of peace is like the attempt by Chabad Hasidim to resurrect the Lubavitcher Rebbe. Who is going to trust peace plans that were written when Boutros Ghali was Egypt, Faisal Husseini was Palestine and Dan Meridor was Likud? Who is going to accept a peace model dating back to 1990 as reliable? Only messianic people; only people whose noble beliefs and lofty ideals have rendered them blind to the reality around them.

But because most Israelis aren’t messianic, they’re not buying it. Even though they realize that the occupation is problematic and the settlements are dangerous, they don’t trust the people of the old left wing who still suggest ending the occupation with an immediate, comprehensive peace when no peace is on the horizon. In a choice between messianic people on both the right and left, they prefer the right. They’re not willing to blindly follow people who have been wrong time and again and have never admitted their mistake.

I won’t get into an argument with former Haaretz columnist Akiva Eldar and sculptor Dani Karavan. I very much admire the journalistic work of the former and the artistic creativity of the latter. When I wrote here two weeks ago about the delusional left wing, I wasn’t referring to the Zionist left wing to which these two men belong. I was referring to the anti-Zionist left wing that is continually hurling stones at Israel without compassion or historical insight.

But it still seems a burning issue for some people – people who don’t accept the Copernican Revolution. They believe that the blazing Middle Eastern sun revolves around the Planet Earth of Israeli-Palestinian peace.

Unconventional as it may be, I’m not going to enter the dispute. On the contrary, I’m going to take this unique opportunity to extend my hand and suggest that we join forces. So you still believe that orthodox peace is within reach? Great, I’m with you. Bring me Abbas’ signature on the draft of Olmert’s peace agreement. Bring me the Arab League’s renunciation of the right of return as enshrined in Resolution 194 of the UN General Assembly.

If you do that, I will join you. I will try to convince every Israeli man and woman to give peace a chance. But if you fail this time too, if you fail for a third and fourth time, then finally admit that the critical experiment didn’t go well. The optimistic theory has been disproved. Maybe then we can join forces, sharpen our minds and bring a new idea for peace into the world that’s not based on wishes but on solid facts.

If we do that, we will finally be able to convince the Israeli majority that our most important national enterprise is dividing the land. Only if we stop falling into delusions and selling delusions will we be able to save the democratic Jewish state and revive Zionism as a liberal, ethical and inspirational movement.

September 24, 2014 | 128 Comments »

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50 Comments / 128 Comments

  1. @ yamit82:

    Yamit, I shall locate a copy of Howard Fast’s history of our Jewish nation. But from what I have seen in the quote from Thomas Cahill’s “The Gift of the Jews”, the latter may well prove more interesting than the former. Or am I comparing literary oranges and apples before tasting either of them?

    Arnold Harris
    Mount Horeb WI

  2. @ D. Bene:

    I think you are really asking why are Israeli leaders so willing to give up territory?

    Because doing so has resulted in the Jews being universally loved.

  3. @ M Devolin:

    this does not mean in the slightest measure that any kind of peace can be established with these animals.

    Dear Michael,

    As you know, we share practically identically views (as well as in the presentation mode of these views…. 🙂 ) but here, I have a bone to pick with you, and I think you owe an apology.
    😉

  4. “…the simple fact peace is impossible because the Arabs themselves reject the Israeli Left’s beloved two state solution.”

    This statement is all that’s needed for a rebuttal to this ridiculous and naïve piece of treif. As Phoenix said, you can’t make peace with those (Arab Muslims) who do not want peace but want instead to exterminate the Jews of Israel (and beyond). This has been the wish and intent of Islam and the Muslim world since long before the establishment of the State of Israel. You can’t make this shit up. This implacableness on the part of the Muslim world is the impasse to peace in the Middle East between Jew and Muslim. This fool from Haaretz seems to have overlooked the entire history of the Muslim Middle East. When these “religious” savages tire of killing Jews (or have rid the land of Jews) they begin again, as they have since the time of the Prophet Mohammed, to murder and assassinate their fellow religious. It is mere convenience that Jews are today there for all of the Muslim world to hate together: this does not mean in the slightest measure that any kind of peace can be established with these animals. This guy (like so many coming up with these “peace plans”) is dreaming a dream that is already dead, was dead a long time ago, will remain dead.

    “In the long history of Islamic empire, the wide gap between delusions of grandeur and the centrifugal forces of localism would be bridged time and again by force of arms, making violence a key element of Islamic political culture to date.” -Efraim Karsh

    Which is to say: If these barbaric religious savages cannot make peace with their fellow religious, whom their Quran commands they make peace with, how are the Jews of Israel, whom their Quran commands them to hate and kill, to blame for failing to make peace with them? This article is totally ridiculous, in my opinion.

  5. My thought for today:

    Non-radical liberals are like non-radical Muslims.

    They exist only in theory.

    In the real world, when push comes to shove these “non-radicals” dependably support their radical brethren.

  6. honeybee Said:

    I come to praise yamit82

    One day I got on the usual bus, and when I stepped in, I saw the most gorgeous blond Chinese girl…I sat beside her. I said, “Hi,” and she said, “Hi,” and then I said, “Nice day, isn’t it?,” and she said, “I saw my analyst today and he says I have a problem.” So I asked, “What’s the problem?” She replied, “I can’t tell you. I don’t even know you…” I said, “Well sometimes it’s good to tell your problems to a perfect stranger on a bus.” She paused, then said, “Well, I’m a nymphomaniac and I can only be aroused Jewish cowboys…by the way, my name is Denise.”

    And I said, “Hello, Denise. I am Bucky Goldstein…”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeUrW-_1ot4

  7. @ yamit82:

    “I played Caesar.”

    “I played Cassius! Trumped again. “

    Still into playing “one-up,” I see.

    Cassius is a meatier role, to be sure (Caesar dies half-way thru the play & appears only as a voiceless ghost thereafter) — but the Cassius figure calls for a younger man than the Caesar role.

    If I’d played Cassius or Brutus or Antony — and somebody of that age or younger had played Caesar — the incongruity would’ve been hard to square. I sympathized with the director’s dilemma, and took the hit for the company. (It’s not as if I always have to play leads anyway.)

    @ yamit82:

    “…to make Brutus jealous and to convince him of Caesar’s ambition.”

    “To make Brutus envious — as is already the case with Cassius (maddeningly so). Jealousy plays little if any role amongst the conspirators — or even in the play generally, except for Caesar’s own jealousy of his position & (perceived) prerogatives.”

    “Gave two quotes one exhibiting jealousy and the other envy as examples.”

    Yes, but again, you inadvertently mischaracterized the Cassius-to-Brutus line as the former trying to make the latter “jealous.” It wasn’t.

    “you apparently missed the points completely as per your comment above. I agreed with your point so why are you still on it?”

    If your point was to make a comparison, then what you wrote was counter-productive to making your point, because you repeated the very error that was central to the point you thought you were ‘agreeing’ with.

    So I simply drew your attention to the glitch & corrected it — though you seem to have overlooked the correction even then.

    On a related note, I suggest that if you were out to compare the two kinds of shortcomings, you could’ve offered a cleaner, more focused example by taking the two from the same play. That kind of thing isn’t always possible, but in the case of jealousy & envy, it’s easy:

    — JEALOUSY is Othello’s problem;

    — while ENVY is Iago’s.

  8. dweller Said:

    @ yamit82:
    “Fisrt: Julius Cesar —- Cassius (Act I, sc 2)
    he is saying it–not to praise Caesar–but to make Brutus jealous and to convince him of Caesar’s ambition.”
    To make Brutus envious — as is already the case with Cassius (maddeningly so).
    Jealousy plays little if any role amongst the conspirators — or even in the play generally, except for Caesar’s own jealousy of his position & (perceived) prerogatives.
    I played Caesar.

    Gave two quotes one exhibiting jealousy and the other envy as examples.
    you apparently missed the points completely as per your comment above.

    I agreed with your point so why are you still on it?

  9. dweller Said:

    But it’s not about Jews either.

    It’s about God.

    Only in your christian pagan beliefs not in Jewish ones and since every comment I address to you is moderated and I finf it difficult to maintain sense of continuity of thought don’t think that if I do not answer you I agree or concede to your crap. Just have no patience for such a dialogue with interuptus extremus.

  10. ArnoldHarris Said:

    Yamit, you are right. As an honest man, I cannot claim to know more than I do about Jewish history. And my level of Jewish historical knowledge will never approach the levels of what I think you have achieved

    I come to praise yamit82 ?????????????

  11. @ yamit82:

    “Haven’t you heard that we Jews are a stiff necked people and very rebellious but that’s why G-d chose us over all the other nations.”

    Doesn’t SAY that’s why

    — that is strictly your own, typically self-idolatrous take on it.

    “You Goyim don’t stand a chance, it’s not about you it’s all about us.”

    BS.

    It’s not about goyim.

    But it’s not about Jews either.

    It’s about God.

  12. @ ArnoldHarris:

    Arnold may I recommend reading “The Jews: Story of a People” by Howard Fast

    Might be available as audio book.

    “If we had lived in the second millennium BC, the millennium of Abraham, and could have canvassed all the nations of the earth, what would they have said of Abraham’s journey? In most of Africa and Europe, they would have laughed at Abraham’s madness and pointed to the heavens, where the life of earth had been plotted from all eternity … a man cannot escape his fate. The Egyptians would have shaken their heads in disbelief. The early Greeks might have told Abraham the story of Prometheus … Do not overreach, they would advise; come to resignation. In India, he would be told that time is black, irrational and merciless. Do not set yourself the task of accomplishing something in time, which is only the dominion of suffering. On every continent, in every society, Abraham would have been given the same advice that wise men as diverse as Heraclitus, Lao-Tsu and Siddhartha would one day give their followers: do not journey but sit; compose yourself by the river of life, meditate on its ceaseless and meaningless flow.”

    “The Jews started it all—and by ‘it’ I mean so many of the things we care about, the underlying values that make all of us, Jew and Gentile, believer and aethiest, tick. Without the Jews, we would see the world through different eyes, hear with different ears, even feel with different feelings … we would think with a different mind, interpret all our experience differently, draw different conclusions from the things that befall us. And we would set a different course for our lives.”

    – Thomas Cahill, The Gifts Of The Jews

  13. dweller Said:

    I played Caesar.

    dweller Said:

    I played Caesar.

    I played Cassius!

    Trumped again. 😛

    4 performances at the Common Glory Theater on the James River. We put on a new play each month for a year.

    Rave notices in Local newspapers. See if you can find them.

  14. @ yamit82:

    Yamit, you are right. As an honest man, I cannot claim to know more than I do about Jewish history. And my level of Jewish historical knowledge will never approach the levels of what I think you have achieved. In any case, I clicked on the link to Rav Wein and absorbed the fundaments of the ancient Jewish struggle against the ancient Greek encroachment upon our Jewish civilization.

    Now I understand more substantially from whence came the Greek and other none-Jewish versions of our bible. The fact is, I never have read any bible other than our own, which, in my case, is the Soncino Tora which I have read from week to week for many years in the local Lubavitcher center near the campus of the University of Wisonsin in Madison. The Soncino Tora contains a running English language translation of the original classic Ivrit. But with a little of the Hebrew language I picked up at the Merkaz HaK;ita ulpan in Netanya in 1973 and from my studies in 1974 at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, I picked up enough Ivtrit to follow the Tora.

    I wish I were as good a Jewish scholar as you are, but 80 years of life failed to steer me in that specific path. But I try to compensate by being true to my memories of the ideals of Rav Meir Kahane and to those of the great Lehi fighting chief, Dr Yisrael Eldad, whom I never could come blose to beating at chess over many pre-Shabat afternoons at his apartment in Rechavia, but to whom I opened my mind to what he worked to teach me.

    Arnold Harris
    Mount Horeb WI

  15. @ Ted Belman:

    You are right, Ted. I ought to have answered the question he raised, rather than going into an Arnold Harris diatribe about the fundamental differences between Christianity and the strictly-Yahavist religions. So here goes:

    Bene, as you can plainly see, large numbers of Jews who do or say just about anything or everything to escape from the fundaments of authentic Judaism. So they attempt the pretense of liberal social action, which increasingly involves them as camp followers of the enemies of their own Jewish nation. Such stances and actions are obviously despicable as well as cowardly. I think you sense that. As to why they line up to support their own enemies, I think they are suffering from a massive, intensive and uniquely Jewish Stockholm syndrome, in which victims find themselves defending their intended victimizers.

    No doubt some of them — perhaps most of them — think they can purchase some sort of peace with the Islamic civilizations and with the Jew-haters of what used to be the European Christian civilization. Most of us who have studied these issues at length fully understand that no such peace is possible, and that the only safe and permanent home for the future Jewish nation that is now in the process of being rebuilt can only be found on the soil of Eretz-Yisrael, which, over time, we our nation shall retake, settle with Jews and carry on where our ancient leaders took us more than 3000 years ago. The Jewish traitors that we and you know so well are doomed by the currents of world history, and good riddance, lest they infect the healthy and self-aware Jewish majority.

    I hope this is a good answer to your question, in accordance both with your standards and those of Ted Belman, whom I highly respect for his exhaustive work on behalf of Israel, the Jewish nation and the practical Zionism which is the only possible path to a good, safe and permanent future for our Jewish nation.

    Arnold Harris
    Mount Horeb WI

  16. Ted Belman Said:

    :Why did you change the subject? Why not offer an answer? His question is legitimate regardless if you disagree with his theology.

    If one does not know Jewish background, if one has no view of the past, it’s not likely one will have a clear view of the present and future either. Knowing our past is vitally important to understanding how we got to where we are now and where we need to get to. An Eternal people with over 4000 years of history cannot be understood out of that historical context.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eVMfNQskWc

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0OyX_Ev5xg

  17. @ yamit82:

    “Fisrt: Julius Cesar —- Cassius (Act I, sc 2)

    he is saying it–not to praise Caesar–but to make Brutus jealous and to convince him of Caesar’s ambition.”

    To make Brutus envious — as is already the case with Cassius (maddeningly so).

    Jealousy plays little if any role amongst the conspirators — or even in the play generally, except for Caesar’s own jealousy of his position & (perceived) prerogatives.

    I played Caesar.

  18. D. Bene Said:

    Phoenix… First I think that REAL Jews and REAL Christians are not that far apart. Then, I think it is not surprising we are searching for the same answers.

    Who in your opinion are real Jews and real christians????

  19. @ yamit82:

    “You’re just jealous.”

    “Not for a nanosecond.

    Envy…is the word you want…”

    “You are correct the word should have been envy. You can’t be jealous of something you don’t already possess and I doubt you will ever be in such a position.”

    But I am indeed in such a position; I have loads of possessions.

    (Sometimes it takes navigational skills, in my house, just to maneuver around stuff, and to get from one room to another without knocking things over. And that’s not to mention the contents of my rather large storage units.)

    The reason I can’t be jealous of my possessions is that I’m not attached to them. I can take ’em or leave ’em.

    “You are just envious.”

    Nope; I know that envy is a luxury I can’t afford (nor can you, BTW). Told you already:

    “Learned years ago that envy …was deadly — and for my OWN sake, I’d never harbor it. (It’s not for no reason that it’s expressly forbidden in the Dibrot.) Always kick it out of bed as soon as it makes an appearance; long-established habit.”

    “The rest of your explanations are consistent with your delusional rationalizations for your own personal inadequacies and personal failures.”

    What ‘inadequacies’ & ‘failures’ are you referring to?

    “You have to believe what you do, the alternative is much too daunting and unattractive to live with.”

    Whom are we talking about here — me or you? You’re obviously trying to fit me to a familiar template — the question is, why it’s familiar to YOU in the first place.

    My conscience is a friend, Yamit, not an enemy; I welcome its chidings. I most assuredly do have to believe what I do, that’s true enough — but not because the alternative is daunting OR unattractive. I have to believe what I do because the alternative simply doesn’t compute.

  20. ArnoldHarris Said:

    Christianity, in root and branch, is an upgraded version of the ancient Greek religions with their Olympian gods,

    Not Lutheranism. Lutheranism is the Old Norse religion gotterdamning and all with a thin veneer of Christianity.

  21. D. Bene Said:

    I have always wondered why the Jews these day do not defend their land.

    Ted Belman Said:

    @ ArnoldHarris:Why did you change the subject? Why not offer an answer? His question is legitimate regardless if you disagree with his theology.

    Explain in more detail your question. What the hell do you think all of our wars were about if not defending our land?

    I am very curious about this. They seem to be honoring the international community more than haShem.

    Key word you use here is (SEEMS)!!! Seems to whom?? You?

    This stance (for decades) has resulted in a less and less defensible land and a people who seem to me to be less and less honoring of haShem.

    Haven’t you heard that we Jews are a stiff necked people and very rebellious but that’s why G-d chose us over all the other nations. True we Jews are undeserving but as our Prophet said:

    Thus saith the L-rd, G-d: I do this not for your sake O House of Israel, but for My Holy Name… And I will sanctify My great Name which hath been profaned among the nations which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the nations shall know that I am the L-rd, saith the L-rd, G-d, WHEN I SHALL BE SANCTIFIED THROUGH YOU BEFORE THEIR EYES. For I will take you from among the nations and gather you out of all the countries and will bring you into your own land.” (Ezekiel 36)

    You Goyim don’t stand a chance, it’s not about you it’s all about us. You are just the Rod of Assyria.

    You think our creator needs concepts of man giving honor to him is what it’s all about? Poor christian!!!!!

    Listen to the Word of the one true G-d:

    “Sin is atoned through kindness and truth; one turns from evil though having respect for Adonai” (Mishlei 16:6).
    “Doing charitable deeds and justice is more pleasing to Adonai than a sacrifice” (Mishlei 21:3).

    “…so, Your Majesty, let my advice be acceptable to you – your sins will be removed by charitable deeds and your wrongdoings [will be removed] by showing mercy to the poor…” (Daniyel 4:24).
    “…I delight in kindness rather than sacrifice and in closeness to God more than olah-offerings…” (Hoshé’a 6:6).

    “…What shall I approach Adonai and bow myself before the Supreme God with? Should I approach Him with olah-sacrifices or calves in their first year? Will Adonai be pleased by thousands of rams, or tens of thousands of rivers of oil? Should I give my own first-born child [in payment] for my rebellion or the fruit of my own body [in payment] for my soul’s errors? Mankind, He has already told you what is ‘good’, what it is that Adonai wants of you – only to act justly, to love kindness, and to walk modestly with your God” (Michah 6:6-8).
    So says Adonai, Yisraél’s God: “…I did not speak to your ancestors or command them about olah-offerings or sacrifices on the day that I brought them from the land of Egypt, but I commanded them only about this one thing: Obey My Voice, and I will be your God and you will be My nation; and then you will walk in all the ways that I will command you, and it will be well with you…” (Yirm’yahu 7:21-23).

    You will never understand the Jews and certainly not our G-d.

    Don’t deserve peace? –Is it because they do not want to go against a judgment that is upon them from haShem? Please help me understand.

    What judgement christian???

    What nation has or is deserving in your words of Peace?? Name them!!!

    HaShem has chosen you for Himself to be a treasured people from among all the peoples on the face of the Earth.” (Deuteronomy 14:2); and: “And HaShem has distinguished you today to be for Him a treasured people, as He spoke to you, and to observe all His Commandments, and to make you supreme over all the nations that He made, for praise, for renown, and for splendor, and so that you will be a holy people to HaShem, your God, as He spoke.” (Deuteronomy 26:18-19).

    “the Eternal One of Israel does not lie and does not relent, for He is not a human that He should relent.” (I Samuel 15:29),
    “God is not a man that He should be deceitful, nor a son of man that He should relent. Would He say and not do, or speak and not confirm?” (Numbers 23:19).

    Understand something: The G-d of Israel delivered the Hebrews from Egyptian Bondage but it was the very same G-d who placed them in Egypt in the first place.

    His ways are not ours and for certain not yours. 3 years after the greatest tragedy in Jewish history (the Holocaust) where we lost a third of our people, the sovereign state of Israel came into being on the wings of many miracles. Do you think this all happened and then the same manipulator of our history would allow us to be defeated and destroyed?

  22. Bear Klein Said:

    Left in Israel is a fairly small minority with no platform the overall public will embrace, so luckily their agenda has no chance.

    Bear,
    First, a very happy new year to you and yours. The transplanted cedar is doing well! 🙂
    Now, back to the matter at hand (as I understand it from your comment)
    If the left is as you claim a small minority, then, how come (And the list is VERY LONG) Arab riots are allowed, Arab construction is encouraged or if illegal (which, in my book, ANY Arab construction is, but I digress…..) then eyes are closed, Jewish homes are destroyed… Etc etc
    You know it as well as I do.

  23. Left in Israel is a fairly small minority with no platform the overall public will embrace, so luckily their agenda has no chance.

  24. @ D. Bene:

    “I have always wondered why the Jews these day do not defend their land.

    Is it because they do not want to go against a judgment that is upon them from haShem? Please help me understand.”

    Very well. We must begin, however, w/ your identifying the purported “judgment that is upon them from haShem.”

  25. @ honeybee:

    Fisrt: “Julius Cesar”—- Cassius (Act I, sc 2)

    he is saying it–not to praise Caesar–but to make Brutus jealous and to convince him of Caesar’s ambition.

    2nd Othello Act 3, Scene 3, Page 20

    the jealous “Othello” as he rages against Desdemona:

  26. @ D. Bene:

    Bene, I suppose you mean well in your regard for us Jews. But if you imagine any kind of similarity between the authentic Jewish idea and any and all forms of Christianity, you would be as wrong as you would be if you were to conclude that 2×2=8.

    Christianity, in root and branch, is an upgraded version of the ancient Greek religions with their Olympian gods, twisted into a late Roman pretzel by the emperor Constantine for purposes of finding and deploying a spiritual support base in his mortal campaign against his fellow caesar Maxentius –assuming I studied my Roman history as well as I think I did.

    In any case, no real Jew ever agrees to the notion that haShem, the master of the universe whose very name we are forbidden to call out to, could or would come to Earth for purposes of impregnating a woman and thus father a human being for the reset of us to worship. That, plus that none of us ever has or ever shall take seriously any claim that a dead man can arise from his grave.

    These, by the way, are points we hold in total agreement with our Muslim enemies.

    All things considered, I assume you get my point.

    There undoubtedly numerous Jewish commenters on blogsites such as Israpundit who smile in supposed agreement with ecumenicism. I am not one of them.

    Arnold Harris
    Mount Horeb WI

  27. @ D. Bene:

    Please help me understand.

    We could not be more diametrically apart in our religious beliefs, yet, like you, I am trying to get answers to the same questions that you have raised (and a whole bunch of other ones too, for good measure… 🙂 )

  28. I am a Born-Again Christian since age 40. I have always wondered why the Jews these day do not defend their land. I am very curious about this. They seem to be honoring the international community more than haShem. This stance (for decades) has resulted in a less and less defensible land and a people who seem to me to be less and less honoring of haShem.
    –Is it because nowadays they don’t think they deserve the land. Don’t deserve peace? –Is it because they do not want to go against a judgment that is upon them from haShem? Please help me understand.

  29. difference between envy and jealousdweller Said:

    Not for a nanosecond. Learned years ago that envy (which is the word you want here)

    You are correct the word should have been envy. You can’t be jealous of something you don’t already possess and I doubt you will ever be in such a position. Envy is a two-person situation whereas jealousy is a three-person situation. Envy is a reaction to lacking something. Jealousy is a reaction to the threat of losing something (usually someone).

    “Why, man, he doth bestride the narrow world

    Like a Colossus: and we petty men

    Walk under his huge legs, and peep about

    To find ourselves dishonorable graves.”

    “All my fond love thus to I blow to heaven.

    ‘Tis gone.

    Arise, black vengeance, from the hollow hell!”

    Yes there is a great difference between Jealousy and Envy.

    You are just envious.

    The rest of your explanations are consistent with your delusional rationalizations for your own personal inadequacies and personal failures. You have to believe what you do, the alternative is much too daunting and unattractive to live with. So in your case “The truth might not set you free” at least in this world.

  30. @ yamit82:

    “Shavit excoriates the left for not seeing today’s reality and coming up with a third way like Clinton did.”

    “To speak of a ‘way’ — 1st, 2nd, 3rd, whatever — you have to be able to refer to an ideological outlook of some sort, and with which you lead. Willy was never like that. Hillary was his idea man — but the only thing he HIMSELF ever believed in was pussy.”

    “You’re just jealous.”

    Not for a nanosecond. Learned years ago that envy (which is the word you want here) was deadly — and for my OWN sake, I’d never harbor it. (It’s not for no reason that it’s expressly forbidden in the Dibrot.) Always kick it out of bed as soon as it makes an appearance; long-established habit.

    “Look where he got to and look where you are?”

    No regrets from out here in the bleacher seats. I’m quite content with my ‘lot’ — and I seriously doubt that inside himself he’s content with his. (I know, I know; you want ‘scientific proof,’ right? — LMSS.)

    “Looks like philandering pays big time…”

    Yes, it certainly DOES look that way, doesn’t it.

    “… and you can’t afford to own a computer.”

    The obligations I had to incur as part of what I got were worth FAR more than the transitory hardships they’ve brought in their train. I’d take them on again in a heartbeat.

    “What’s your excuse?”

    No excuses.

    For the past half-century, my attitude has consistently been that haShem has things for me to go thru, and to learn from.

    Whatever they are, I welcome them: w/ deep & earnest gratitude for the opportunity they represent.

    ~ L’shana tova tikatevu ~

  31. @Yidvocate – agree 100%, this author Shavit is delusional. I heard David Horowitz say that the Jewish left’s real religion is Progressivism.

  32. dweller Said:

    Willy was never like that. Hillary was his idea man — but the only thing he HIMSELF ever believed in was pussy.

    You’re just jealous. Look where he got to and look where you are? Looks like philandering pays big time and you can’t afford to own a computer.

    Of course having a dyke for a wife helps and even explains.

    What’s your excuse?????

  33. “havit excoriates the left for not seeing today’s reality and coming up with a third way like Clinton did.”

    Clinton came up with a third way?

    — when did that happen?

    To speak of a “way” — 1st, 2nd, 3rd, whatever — you have to be able to refer to an ideological outlook of some sort, and with which you lead.

    Willy was never like that. Hillary was his idea man — but the only thing he HIMSELF ever believed in was pussy.

    All Clinton did was continually navigate between Scylla & Charibdis. Every move he made was preceded by an internal poll geared explicitly toward determining what the public was inclined to accept or reject. This is leading?

    The notion that Clinton had a “third way” is mythology.

    @ Yidvocate:

    “our most important national enterprise is dividing the land.”

    “Shavit calls the ‘Left’ delusional when he suffers from the very same delusions. The reality his delusional mind misses is that the land has already been divided with 80% of our land already in the hands of our Arab haters, Jordan and Gaza and the sliver we have left is really the minimum that remains defensible.”

    Hear, hear.

  34. our most important national enterprise is dividing the land.

    Shavit calls the “Left” delusional when he suffers from the very same delusions. The reality his delusional mind misses is that the land has already been divided with 80% of our land already in the hands of our Arab haters, Jordan and Gaza and the sliver we have left is really the minimum that remains defensible. He deludes himself to think there is some mysterious “third way” that has alluded the minds of men smarter than he for over a century. He is right however that the occupation must end. In fact that really is the third or only way and R. Kahane had it right – THEY MUST GO!

  35. Peace is dead, long live peace
    Just as Clinton revived the Democratic Party in the 1990s, the Zionist left must revive itself and offer a third way.

    “Zionist” and “Left” are oxymoronic concepts, in practice but unfortunately for the Jewish nation, not in theory as well.

    Arnold Harris
    Mount Horeb WI

  36. Ari Shavit does not seem to grasp the simple fact peace is impossible because the Arabs themselves reject the Israeli Left’s beloved two state solution.

    And as long as they reject the permanence of the Jewish State in the Middle East, by definition, peace will remain impossible.

  37. One could write a full article on why they were wrong then but I’ll leave that to you the readers.

    An Israeli left wing activist holds olive branches, during a demonstration against Israel’s offensive in the Gaza Strip, in Tel Aviv, Israel. July 19, 2014. Photo by AP

    I find this picture, to be EXTREMELY offensive.
    It speaks in more than thousands of words:
    How STUPID Jews can be.
    How IGNORANT of the source of hatred (kkkoran) directed at and against them.
    How DELUSIONAL this group really is, by insisting to believe in a utopian future outcome which just cannot be wished into existence.
    How DISHONEST this portrayal is, for surely SOME, if not all, know the truth, but they just cannot get themselves to admit to this erroneous belief.
    How COWARD this group really is. For , they use this same outstretched hand with an olive branch towards Israel’s mortal enemies, to brutally bludgeon and destroy their (supposedly) Jewish brethren.

    For “PEACE” (and by that I mean, the ONLY kind of peace that can exist – absence of hostilities) to reign, this ridiculous picture must be replaced by a picture of an arm clenched into a fist, with the captions: THUS, and NEVER AGAIN!
    Happy new year to all!