By Israela Oron, INSS
INSS Insight No. 1018, February 18, 2018
The Palestinian refugee issue has been seen for some seventy years as a principal obstacle to a resolution of the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians. However, the expanding numbers of refugees from the Middle East and Africa today challenge the uniqueness of the Palestinian situation. In fact, the issue of Palestinian refugees is perceived more as the reflection of an ongoing lapse by Arab countries, Israel, and the international community, which have been unable to separate the solution to this problem from the greater political arrangement between Israel and the Palestinians. Despite the ongoing distress of the refugees, the subject is still seen as the Palestinians’ main bargaining chip in peace negotiations with Israel. However, the value of this historical card appears to be ebbing with the growing numbers of refugees worldwide and the absence of a solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. After seven decades and many changes in the Middle East, perhaps this complex issue should be disconnected from the greater political settlement.
The decision by US President Donald Trump to freeze a third of the United States’ contribution to UNRWA, the United Nations Relief and Works Agency, has brought renewed attention to an organization whose very existence and activity arouses harsh criticism in Israel. UNRWA was established in 1949 after the War of Independence to deal solely with Palestinian refugees. As with the question of Jerusalem, the Palestinian refugee issue has been seen for some seventy years as a principal obstacle to a resolution of the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians. For the Palestinians who have been raised on the Nakba heritage, any compromise on this issue is an attack on Palestinian national identity.
The number of individuals forced to leave their homes during the War of Independence is estimated at 720,000. Most of them settled in refugee camps in the West Bank, the Gaza Strip, Jordan, Lebanon, and Syria. According to UNRWA, all the descendants of Palestinian refugees are considered refugees, and therefore today they number over five and a half million. Citizenship of another country, for example, Jordan, does not cancel their refugee status. In other words, only the return of the refugees and their descendants to their homes can cancel this status.
For Israeli governments, the Palestinian demand for the “right of return” of refugees was and remains a red line. This position is supported by an absolute majority of Israeli citizens from all parts of the political spectrum, because the return of such large numbers of Palestinian refugees to the State of Israel would have far reaching consequences for the character of the state. However, all the attempts by the State of Israel over the years to change UNRWA’s definition of refugees have failed. Israel’s efforts to change UNRWA’s status as an independent entity and subject it to the UNHCR, which handles all other refugees worldwide, has failed as well. This is largely because the Arab countries believe that such a change would make it impossible to pass on refugee status to the descendants of Palestinian refugees and thus weaken the Palestinian position in negotiations.
The social and political shockwaves in the Middle East since 2011 make it imperative to reexamine the refugee issue. First, the expanding numbers of refugees from the Middle East and Africa challenge the uniqueness of the Palestinian situation. Today there are some 60 million displaced people, including 17 million refugees, half of them under the age of 18. These refugees are the responsibility of the UNHCR (High Commissioner for Refugees), and some make their way to Europe. Their movement has enormous economic, security, political, and national consequences for most of the countries of the continent.
This is the reason why the issue of Palestinian refugees is perceived more as the reflection of an ongoing lapse by Arab countries, Israel, and the international community, which have been unable to separate the solution to this problem from the greater political arrangement between Israel and the Palestinians. Despite the ongoing distress of the refugees, the subject is still seen as the Palestinians’ main bargaining chip in peace negotiations with Israel. However, the value of this historical card appears to be ebbing with the growing numbers of refugees worldwide and the absence of a solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
In contrast to figures on UNRWA’s official site, which cite 526,700 registered refugees in Lebanon, newly published figures based on a Lebanese census conducted in cooperation with the Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics estimate their number at 175,000. This figure is interesting in itself, because of the familiar tendency of Palestinian elements to be reluctant to reduce the number of refugees. More specifically, the situation of the refugees in Lebanon has always been considered worse than in other countries, due to the strong restrictions there against them. Therefore, it is generally accepted that they be dealt with first in any settlement. Even when ideas were proposed for a symbolic return of refugees to Israel in the framework of family reunification, refugees from Lebanon were spoken of first. The gap in the figures strengthens the assumption that the numbers on the UNRWA site do not reflect reality – not only in Lebanon, but also in other countries. This assumption undermines the reliability of this organization, which has always been seen in Israel as a hostile entity at the forefront of the struggle to perpetuate the refugee issue and the demand for the “right of return.”
Moreover, due to the ongoing war in Syria, refugees from Lebanon and Syria have migrated to other countries. The demographic changes in Lebanon, particularly the dramatic decline in the proportion of Palestinian refugees, mean a reduced threat to a breach of the delicate balance between different population groups. This could enable the Lebanese government to introduce a more lenient policy regarding refugee rights, which could perhaps reduce the pressure to promote a special arrangement for refugees there. Although there are no new independent figures about the number of Palestinian refugees in Syria, their numbers have likely dropped significantly, and the problem of Palestinian refugees in Syria is no longer the focus of the refugee agenda in that country.
With the refugee issue ongoing for so long, changes have occurred in their integration into their “host” countries. Contrary to widespread opinion, only 45 percent of the refugees in Lebanon live in camps. Fifty-seven percent of the refugees in the Shatila camp are from Syria, and only about 30 percent are Palestinians. Similarly, in Jordan, which granted citizenship to most of the Palestinian refugees, many live in “regular” residential areas rather than camps.
It is hard to preserve refugee status forever, and in view of social, political, and economic processes, the integration of Palestinian refugees into the economy and society of host countries is inevitable. This does not mean that the subject of refugees should not be settled. However, after seven decades and many changes in the Middle East, perhaps this complex issue should be disconnected from the greater political settlement. The problem of the refugees is a national Palestinian problem, but also a personal problem for hundreds of thousands of Palestinians, and failure to resolve the subject does not make them more moderate.
President Trump’s decision to freeze aid to UNRWA without giving it a proper chance to prepare for the provision of services to needy refugees in the Gaza Strip does not contribute to stability or moderation in the region. It is not inevitable, as has happened before, that the State of Israel will have to settle this account.
@ Felix Quigley:
I actually saw Kerensky on a TV interview for about 10-15 minutes, many years ago when he was a very old man around 90 I’d say.. He was articulate but one could see that he was failing. He was a bit too indecisive when he needed immediate action, and allowed himself to be caught in a city with almost no support present, although there was elsewhere. I believe his intentions were for the best, and towards the West, but…..
@ CuriousAmerican:
There’s no point in wasting your time “triumphantly, sending me those opposing lists. I could go on Wiki in a minute and change their figures. I’m not prepared to begin an acrimonious discussion of how many live in Gaza. I merely have given you the official figures as I read them from several reports. They probably got them from the same sourse.
In that respect, Trotsky was most like both Presidents Bush.
@ Felix Quigley:
That was Trotsky’s position in 1917, but Lenin wrote against it, saying that the Bolshevik position should be to fight against the White Guardists now while leaving the fight against Kerensky for later without giving them any support or working with them. It occurs to me that, ironically, Stalin’s temporary alliance with the U.S. and Britain during WW2 was closer to Trotsky’s earlier position. Stalin’s “non-aggression pact” with Hitler was like Lenin’s earlier position in name though under-the-table it was more of a temporary alliance as with Trotsky’s advocacy earlier.
To his credit, Trotsky advocated the League of Nations invading Germany in 1933 over the Versailles violations.
Wikipedia: 1.85 Million: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip
Index Mundi: 1.79 Million Index Mundil
Times of Israel: 2 million https://www.timesofisrael.com/gaza-strip-population-reaches-2-million/
Google 1.816 Million Click Here
Ettinger’s numbers are too rosy.
Even if Ettinger were right about Palestinians living abroad, just like Israeli’s living abroad, they do not lose their claim just by being outside the territory.
In any event, whatever the numbers, the Arab states refuse to take them, and they will not disappear to oblige you.
I do NOT say that with glee, but to point out that much of the ideas here are based on wishful thinking not reality.
@ Edgar G.:
Kerensky had Trotsky in prison round about August 1917. Lenin in hiding. But the Bolsheviks formed an alliance (United Front) with this enemy in order to defeat the advance of Kornilov. Chiang kai Chek of the Kuomintang would shoot communists on sight. But the forces of the Left Opposition led by Trotsky proposed a United Front against the Japanese. In 1933 Trotsky preached incessently to unite to defeat Hitler and the Nazis. I can think of the same need to stop Khomenei in 1979. It is often you have to unite with an enemy because it is not personal, there are also forces behind and in the case of Assad there are many, now Kurds, then Alawites, then and still Christians, now also secular Muslims who fear Jihad.
It is a tactic. It does not mean Israel lowers its guard…the opposite.
@ Felix Quigley:
That may be Felix, but his father wasn’t; quite to the contrary. As you know he startd at least 2 major wars agains Israel and continuing aggrssion/unrest, and was beaten soundly in each. But in 1973 it was touch and go but for the heroism of a fw tankers, especially one who was reputed to have knocked out over 60 Syrian tanks, to the extent that they withdrew thinking they were facing a new tank brigade reinforcement.
@ CuriousAmerican:
I saw at least three reports in the past say 2 months which stated that Gaza had a population of 1.6 mill of which1.3 mill were claiming to be refugees. There are other similar enlargements in your figures….
President Assad of Syria is coming to the aid of the Kurds in Afrin as the Jihadist Erdogan marches his Jihadist Ottoman troops into Syria in order to massacre the Kurds and enslave the Kurds. There should be no hesitation on the part of Israelis. At the very least they should issue a statement critically supporting Assad in doing this. This appears to me that there always was possible and is now possible an alliance between the Kurds of Syria and President Assad. The Grandfather of President Assad is reputed to have been very friendly to the Jewish liberationists of Zionism back in the day.
Yes it is all about “redefinition”. That is a very good point. The main point being that Jews had originally nothing to do with this. It was the Arab Muslims Jihad who started this meme “The Palestinians”, and weak minded Israelis actually have joined in with this meme lie. Everything today depends on telling the truth, here, in Europe, in America in defence of President Trump, in defence of President Assad, in defence of Putin, in defence of PM Teresa May to carry through Brexit. And this is the number one Big Lie in the world that needs “redefining” that is and amounts to patiently explaining the truth. The genocide charge used by this scumbag Curious American is all part of the Jihadist Lie.
Thank you all for this spirited informed debate.
@ Sebastien Zorn:
I think they deserve the prize that results from “say(ing) the secret word” from the Groucho Show. It was a replica of, I think, a booby bird…. Or was that when they didn’t get it right, as like right now.
@ CuriousAmerican:
I’m sorry you think you have any problem at all. The facts are, as I politely pointed out above (which should obviate the neccessity of hashing it over again, a few post down, like you are now doing) That there are about 1.6 mill in Gaza of which 1.3 are classified as refugees. They are mostly from Egyptian descent resulting from the Egyptian occupation of the area for years., cleaning out and repopulating as they did. In Judea and Samaria there are about 1.4 or by now 1.5 inhabitants, who are all mostly of Jordanian, Syrian, Lebanon, Iraqi and Egyptian descent.The all have Jordanian citizenship or are children of Jordanian citizens. This is not counting the tens of thousands that emigrate every year. so we really don’t know exactly. But around those figures. Total about 3 mill. all with some sort of legal connection to either Egypt or Jordan
*****8 I’ve seen a remark by a prominent Gaza Hamas macher that he personally knows 30 separate, unrelated families all with the family name “al Misri” which shows they are from Egypt
Hebrew ..”Mitzraim” = Egypt. “Misri”. Arabic = Egypt.********
I disagree with your lower numbers. Gaza alone is 1.8 Million.
They do NOT all hold Jordanian passports. They were not offered to Gazans,
Gazan refugees were never offered Jordanian passports even in 1967, even in 1948, I believe.
After 1988, Jordan stopped offering Palestinians Jordanian passports. There are some who are grandfathered in, but NOT all have Jordanian passports.
Mudhar Zahran is a long shot.
I have no problem if you can pull it off with compensation.
And it’s not 3.4 million but 2.5 in Yesha. And they all hold Jordanian passports but they are discriminated against in Jordan. If Mudhar Zahran takes power, gives them equality and the right of return to all Palestinian Arabs in a secular democratic state, that, together with the assistance Israel can give to them in relocating and to Jordan can remove the problem by removing them to the other side of the Jordan river, a natural barrier. That’s the 2nd two state solution. The first was the Jews get all of “Palestine” including Jordan and the Arabs get the rest of the Middle East. It’ s the only practical compromise. With compensated emigration it can be done bloodlessly.
But the terrorists have to be liquidated. First thing, Jewish communities must have civil instead of military law. Second thing, Israeli military law must replace the PA.
https://www.haaretz.com/.premium-how-many-palestinians-are-there-1.5288567
By contrast, the majority of Jordanians are “Palestinian” Arabs. The King must leave and the Muslim Brotherhood must be suppressed.
@ CuriousAmerican:
Sure they will. Once they are absorbed into the populations of other countries, they won’t be a threat any longer. Redefining them is precisely the key. Before anything else. And, that’s not genocide. They don’t really believe their own very recent nationalist narrative themselves. It’s just a trick. They are Sunni Arab Muslims who hail from particular clans in nearby countries. And recently at that.
palestinians are a myth says hamas member “they are just saudis and egyptians”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwBSWN4s9JU
If you noticed my figures, I did NOT include Jordanian, or Chilean Palestinians with citizenship. I usually limited my figure to J&S and Gaza.
There are 3.3 – 4 Million in areas under Israeli control. They will NOT disappear just because you redefine them.
A) I did NOT ask Israel to divide Jerusalem
B) I did NOT ask Israel to divide Judea and Samaria.
C) I support Trump’s support of Israel’s claim to Jerusalem
D) I have made it clear that I despise Islam.
So where does everyone get off?
Is it because I do not call for the de facto genocide of the Palestinians?
Like it or not, you have anywhere between 1.5 – 2.2 Million Palestinians in J&S, depending on whether you use Ettinger’s or Della Pergola’s numbers. Both are Israeli Jews.
There is undoubtedly over 1.8 Million more in Gaza. Add them together to get 3.3 to 4 Million.
These people are not going to disappear just because you redefine them. The world will not stop noticing just because you redefine them.
You can call them Palestinians, Fakestinians, Martians, whatever. They are not going to disappear UNLESS …
you either ethnically cleanse them, or genocide them.
I have suggested paying them to leave (like Martin Sherman) or enfranchising them (like Caroline Glick), but the commentors here seem to prefer blood.
I am not the problem here.
I think CuriousAmerican deserves some kind of prize; I mean it’s hard to be wrong about EVERYTHING! Kind of a talent, if you ask me. Deserves some kind of recognition. Don’t you think? Maybe Peres, Obama, Arafat and Clinton should be made to share their Nobel booby prize with him.
Omo Omo, was that too vicious?
Just call me, Sid, then. Aaarf!
https://issuu.com/theodorepresser/docs/bachpdq_canine_cantata_issuu
http://wikipdq.wikia.com/wiki/Wachet_Arf!,_S._K9
Nazi Hunter: Lithuania Hunts Ex-partisans, Lets War Criminals Roam Free
https://www.haaretz.com/1.5012091
I say, “crush them, Putin, crush them now.”
@ CuriousAmerican:
Well George Habash might as well have been a Muslim. He is like Pope Francis every fibre in his body surrendered to Islam and Jihad. As does the BBC and countless others. Of course Christianity brings its own brand of Antisemitism. Habash was a mixture of all of these things, but above all he adopted leftist sounding ideology which he took from Stalinism and from the new forms of left revisionism which cropped up post 1940, after the murder of Leon Trotsky left the alternative to Stalin without proper leadership (or you can also say there was no alternative remaining). These are all material facts.
Stalinism always was a political trend which swung from side to side. For example Stalin opposed the Left Opposition in Russia, opposing the platform of the Left Opposition for rapid industrialization to offset the growth of the powerful Kulaks. Then too late he adopted their programme but had to act with great brutality to actually save the workers state. Stalin made a deal with Hitler in 1939 then to swing again against the Nazis when Hitler invaded in 1941. Stalin it appears was genuinely surprised as he had trusted in the Nazi Hitler. This is a fatal ideology and Habash absorbed it but in the services essentially of the Islamic Jihad against the Jews. I forgot to mention that without Gromyko, and most accept Stalin as well, there would be no Israel today (recognition of the state of Israel and provision of arms 1948) All of that leads on into the Antisemitism in the left today. But it all means that they, and before them Habash, adapted madly to the Islamic Jihad. You see the same thing today in the Feminist movement in relation to Iran.
CA is in the final analysis adapting to Islam. if he asks himself how can Islam be defeated then a big blow will be struck by defeating the “Palestinians”. Immediately the link has to be drawn internationally between Jihad and the “Palestinians”. That is what CA is opposing.
@ CuriousAmerican:
Wrong.
An example of a great anti-Nazi
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abba_Kovner
These Eastern European Jew hating scum are prosecuting 90 year old anti-Nazis and celebrating Nazis.
Inflated Numbers for Palestinian Refugees – Brig.-Gen. (ret.) Israela Oron
According to UNRWA, Palestinian refugees and all their descendants today number over five and a half million. Citizenship in another country, for example, Jordan, does not cancel their refugee status. For Israeli governments, the Palestinian demand for the “right of return” of refugees remains a red line supported by a majority of Israeli citizens from all parts of the political spectrum.
The expanding numbers of refugees from the Middle East and Africa challenge the uniqueness of the Palestinian situation. Today there are 60 million displaced people, including 17 million refugees. Thus, with the growing numbers of refugees worldwide, the value of refugees as the Palestinians’ main bargaining chip appears to be ebbing.
In contrast to figures on UNRWA’s official site, which cite 526,700 registered refugees in Lebanon, newly published figures based on a Lebanese census conducted in cooperation with the Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics estimate their number at 175,000. In the Shatila camp in Lebanon, for example, 57% of the refugees are from Syria, while only 30% are Palestinians. The gap in the figures strengthens the assumption that the numbers on the UNRWA site do not reflect reality – not only in Lebanon, but also in other countries. The writer served as Deputy National Security Advisor at Israel’s National Security Council. (Institute for National Security Studies-Tel Aviv University)
There were more than 50 of them; and they had lots of supporters.
Was George Habash a Muslim? Answer: no!
I despise Islam; but you cannot redefine your opponents and hope the problem will go away.
The Germans did the killings in Poland, not the Poles.
Your statement indicates a viciousness which undercuts your opinion.
Thesis Eleven is the most famous of Karl Marx’s Theses on Feuerbach, and goes like this: “The philosophers have only interpreted the world in various ways; the point, however, is to change it.”
This is the answer to all of these Antisemites. Israel has to take its total destiny into its very own hands and strike out on the high road to happiness of the Jewish people.
It must be clear to even the most devoted follower of Zion that the Jews find this very difficult. There is an impasse and into those rivers of doubt the Antisemites creep. But a bold course of action will leave the Antisemites high and dry.
CA is wrong. The “Palestinians” are simply Muslims. As in all such cases, and there are now many in the world, those that break from this curse are aware of the danger they are in. Special arrangements will be made for those who must join to end Islam.
Israel must lead, or at least join, this fight to end Islam.
I know there are some who say what about Christianity? That was then this is now. Things in the world have changed.
@ Edgar G.:
Thanks, I forgot. The Fields line could be useful, too.
@ CuriousAmerican:
They are not stateless, that’s how their handlers wish to portray them for the reasons you know well. They are all Jordanian citizens or descendants of Jordanian citizens. Their business is with the midget kinglet, not with Israel. Which is why they should be supporting Mudar Zahran. I mean the ones who are not settled and citizens of another country,-which many of them are.
@ Sebastien Zorn:
First, it’s P.T. Barnum who is supposed to have originated the “A sucker is born every minute”…
You confused it with Fields old movie called “Never give a sucker an even break”…which I saw as a child.
And the dirty dogsbodies you are writing about who talk about blowing up Embassies 50-60 years ago as proof that Jews become radicalised with deprivation, is stupid/stupid/cunning, because to have 50 Jews who are willing to blow up a building, against 14 million who are not…. weelll you can see how cretinous it sounds.
@ CuriousAmerican:
They started radicalized. The thing is to throw them out and keep them out. As long as we are bigger and stronger and have plenty of spies in their midst, we can’t lose. Might always makes right except when the enemy has it. And the only thing that will change world opinion is when they need us more than they hate us, as with China and the oil producing islamo-fascist regimes, and especially if we get a seat on the Security Council.
As long as they can’t get at us, who cares what they feel? Insects.
@ CuriousAmerican:
They have been trying to kill us all along and the world has been helping them.
For example:
U.N. Watch: Top Ten Most Insane Anti-Israel UN Actions in 2017
https://www.unwatch.org/top-10-insane-u-n-anti-israel-actions-2017/
May 19, 1967:
“Israel is reeling following yesterday’s report by UN Security General U Thant which notifies his acquiescence to Egyptian Foreign Minister Mahmoud Riad’s request to remove the United Nations Emergency Force (UNEF) stationed in the Sinai Peninsula…”
http://www.bicom.org.uk/blogpost/19-may-1967-un-peacekeeping-force-leave-sinai/
Why the Mastermind behind the Murder of Leon Klinghofer and Hijacking of the Achille Lauro went free
https://www.jns.org/why-the-mastermind-behind-leon-klinghoffers-murder-went-free/
The examples are endless.
WASHINGTON, May 14, 1948 (UP) — President Truman is considering a proposal to lift the embargo on shipment of arms to Palestine, an informed White House source said today.
https://www.upi.com/Archives/1948/05/14/Truman-recognizes-Israel-studies-plan-to-lift-Palestine-arms-embargo/9113478158505/
and the Ukraine. Frankly, my only problem with Putin is his alliance with Iran. Otherwise, I like him.
I remember during last year’s election when the allegations that Trump was being helped by the Russians first started, people were joking online that if that was the case, which it wasn’t, but if it were, the Russians weren’t doing enough, they should try harder.
My sentiments, precisely.
@ CuriousAmerican:
The solution in Yesha is Jewish sovereignty from the river to the sea and compensated emigration for the Arabs after the terrorists are liquidated.
The solution for the others is for them to receive full citizenship in the nations in which they reside.
UNRWA should be disbanded and its functions taken over by the UNHCR whose mission that is.
In any case, their poverty should not be neither Israel’s concern nor ours. It’s self-inflicted, if it is even real. Moreover, anyone who hates Jews should be poor and downtrodden.
Those who kill Jews deserve to die. They deserve it.
I wish Putin would conquer Poland and the Baltic states. I want them to feel the lash, as well.
@ Sebastien Zorn:
They are idiots. Nobody upstairs. Nobody to talk to. They just take their marching orders from the MSM when they are activated. When their leaders are confused and distracted, like now, with Trump, they fall silent, for the most part. He’s a terrific lighning rod, as well as friend, you know?
Do not confuse me with the mainstream media. I find both sides in this debate guilty of wishful thinking!
That being said: You have over 3-4 million stateless Palestinians in Judea and Samaria and Gaza, not to mention another 1.3 Million stateless in Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, etc.
Many are poor (inspite of your denials).
The 3 to 4 Million Palestinians in J&S, and Gaza are Israel’s problem.
This problem will not disappear if you call them Martians.
The problem with Israeli policy is that rather than dealing with the problem, it redefines the problem in the hopes that people will lose interest.
Yeah, there are!
Look, Israel may have the better claim to the land, and I agree – but you cannot redefine, and wish these Palestinian people out of existence.
If you want to kill them all, Yamit, that is your choice! I am not going to howl. I despise Islam so much that my comments would be muted.
But, I do not want to see you crying crocodile tears, “The world hates us,” when the world condemns you.
I do NOT ask Israel to divide the city of Jerusalem.
I do NOT ask Israel to divide the land (Judea and Samaria)
I thought Trump was right in recognizing Israel’s claim on Jerusalem.
Hardly an “enemy,” but you seem to be in the business of redefinition also, Felix.
However, there are about 1.3 Million stateless Palestinians in Syria, Lebanon, and Egypt, who are denied citizenship. Others are stateless elsewhere. You have 1.5 (Ettinger’s number) to 2.2 (Della Pergola’s number) in Judea and Samaria. You have 1.8 Million in Gaza.
That is approx. 3.6 to 4.3 Million stateless people (inside and outside Israel) who will NOT disappear just because you redefine them.
Yes, a lot of them are Islamic lunatics. But a lot are not. George Habash, founder of the PFLP, was an Eastern Orthodox Christian. Islam is a part of the problem, but only a part.
You can call them North Koreans if you wish, and you may think it will destroy their narrative, and the world will fall for the redefinition.
Do you think the nations of the world will stop their pressure on Israel merely because you redefine these people?
These people have to be dealt with, or Israel will have a perpetual problem.
The world defines these stateless people as Palestinians, whether you like it or not.
Redefining these people will not make the problem disappear.
@ CuriousAmerican: You have this wrong and so everything you said is wrong….”Redefining the Palestinians will not make them disappear”.
The “Palestinians” are not being redefined. It is they and Antisemitism who have given them this name. Now the “Palestinians” are the battering ram of Antisemitism and must be recognized by all good people as the enemy.
You are obviously not one of the “good people” but the enemy!
So bring it on!
@ yamit82:
I agree 100% and put exactly as it is and always has been. Ethel M. Dells soppy stories about perfumed Sheikhs of the Desert (with apologies to Rudolf Valentino and Ramon Navarro) were just that….soppy stories.
One said, what was the majority language being spoken in the 19th century. As if the censuses were ever done on any basis but religion. Marx thought language was the most important thing, though leftists have abandoned that one with hispanics in favor of “latinos” not all of whom are spanish speaking.
Many languages were spoken in Palestine at the dawn of the 20th century. There were many communities. They don’t know this. Or care. Just talking points.
One guy tried to distract from Muslim terror by bringing up the Liberty. Another brought up the bombing of the Soviet embassy over the oppression of Soviet Jews in the 70s. They bring in things from 50, 60 years ago to blame on Jews to create a false moral equivalence. They are intellectually dishonest. When you refute them, they just go on to their next talking point. They need to be removed from academia and journalism. They need to marginalized again for the fanatical kooks they are. They are a kind of anti-semite but it’s nuanced and insidious because they will side with us against White Neo-Nazis but will always side with our enemies if they have bonafide “third-world” credentials. The cretins. They successfully sucker liberal Jews every time that way.
“A sucker is born every minute.” W.C. Fields
And, what is my position on all this, might you ask? Well, after giving it some reasoned and measure thought, I would say,
“it sucks.” Sucks a moose (I have no idea what that means but my big sister used to say that all the time, and she was never wrong.)
@ Edgar G.:
Leftists think history began in the 19th century. One of their favorite catch-phrases is “you can’t go back 2,000 years.” They don’t expect anybody to say, “says who?”
That being said, they have a fuzzy idea about the 19th and 20th centuries, too.
They don’t know Jerusalem was majority Jewish for most of the 19th century.
They didn’t know, when they defended Saddam Hussein’s annexation of Kuwait, that Kuwait couldn’t have been taken from Iraq — as if an independent country could still somehow be a European colony, anyway, they say Gaza is under Israeli occupation today because of the border with Israel, unaware or uncaring that it’s even more guarded on the Egyptian side, as if that mattered anyway — that Iraq was created by the League of Nations in the 20s and Kuwait by the UN (both under the auspices of the British) in the 50s and 60s!
They really think there was a country called Palestine! I don’t think they ever heard of the Ottoman Empire.
One guy didn’t believe Abbas was paying terrorists and their families. So, what’s the Taylor-Force bill about then? Uhhhh. What?
They are idiots. Nobody upstairs. Nobody to talk to. They just take their marching orders from the MSM when they are activated. When their leaders are confused and distracted, like now, with Trump, they fall silent, for the most part. He’s a terrific lighning rod, as well as friend, you know?
There are no authentic Palestinian refugees from past Arab-Israeli wars. Those who fled from these wars in the past are all now settled in permanent homes, as are their children and grandchildren. The so-called “refugee camps” are permanent towns or urban neighborhoods. Their inhabitants live in houses or apartments on streets, mostly paved. Some of the ex-refugees and ex-refugees are still poor, but the majority have a higher than average standard of living for the Arab world–certainly a higher living standard than Egyptians, Syrians, and Libyans. It is time that aid to the phony refugees from “Palestine” ended and the money given to the millions of genuine refugees from the Congo, Nigeria, Syria , Myanmar, Ceylon and elsewhere.
CuriousAmerican Said:
A bullet in the head or napalm will make them disappear completely 😛
Who cares what the vermin want??? Besides You?
So you equate deprivation of rights as a major or main cause for their radicalization??? Haaaa they are donkey’s and are radicalized of the price increase of bread nothing to do with political rights…. Muslims not concerned with rights they are concerned with basic survival and only know and respect the power of those holding their lives in hand by force….. They are stupid fodder of their own making and that of the christian world who use them as they need them.
@ Bear Klein:
“Beggar” yes, but “People” NO. They all have Doctorates in Baksheesh, a fine art with them.
@ Bear Klein:
“Beggar” yes, but “People” NO.
@ CuriousAmerican:
I don’t know what you mean when you say “Jews were made stateless and deprived of rights in the 19th and 20th centuries”. I don’t think that even you know what you mean. Except for brief-very brief- historical periods, since -60 Jews have been deprived of nearly their rights, except to live and die..
(Scattered across different countries, Principalities, Dukedoms, etc they might experience very brief periods of having rights, whilst next door they’d have none.) That is for over 2000 years, which is slightly longer than “the 19th and 20th Centuries”.
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/240781
Only about 20 – 30K of the original Arabs that fled Israel are still alive. That others who now call themselves Palestinians and do not have citizenships of the countries they were born in and have resided in for more than one generation needs to be resolved.
However, this will not be resolved within the borders of Israel. Anyone who tells these people is doing them a large disservice. Most of them realize this already but UNWRA perpetuates the problem by teaching anti Jewish and anti Israel curriculum in its schools. UNWRA needs to be disolved and the Palestinians need to quit being a beggar people.
Even ignoring Jordan, you still have a lot of “Outer” Palestinians.
Redefining the Palestinians will not make them disappear.
Israel says it is the Arab’s problem.
The Arab’s say it is Israel’s problem.
But whatever you call them, they are stateless, and many want to return.
Bingo!
Islam is not the only problem, here.
When Jews were made stateless, and deprived of rights in the 19th and 20th centuries, they became … radicalized.