By Ted Belman
For many years I have been pointing out the dangers of unlimited return of the so-called Palestinian refugees to Palestine, should it be created.
Its nice to see FM Lieberman is raising the alarm.
- However, Lieberman also raised a “next-day” issue regarding the signing of any future peace deal that would lead to the establishment of an independent Palestinian state.
- The foreign minister said even if an agreement was reached, various Arab countries currently hosting Palestinian refugees would want to send the some three million people to the independent Palestinian areas, which would create a “very difficult humanitarian situation”.
- Liberman warned that such a move would cause frustration, violence and a deterioration of security if the Palestinian infrastructure could not handle such a mass influx of people.
Suppose that these returned “refugees” (actually their descendents) renew their claims to return to Israel and claim property in Israel long ago given to the Israel Land Custodian. And suppose in their frustration that they did a million man march on Israel all along the fence and began tearing it down and entering Israel.
To say the least, Israel would be overwhelmed. It would be a major setback for Israel.
One more reason not to create a Palestine state.
Bear Klein Said:
Can’t wait to examine him, in the raw!!!!!!!!
@ honeybee:
Honeybee working for NSA now. The Neutron Kid must have a thick file.
@ yamit82:
Thank you for the links. I have a Yamit82 file!!!!!!
@ Bert:Good point except how do you implement this practically? The Jordanians hate us but hate the Palis even more. There is no way in hell that they’ll let any more Palis into Jordan. I like Moshe Feiglin’s idea of paying them to leave. They are so money hungry that even though they hate us, they like our money and will do just about anything to get it.
@ CuriousAmerican:
More Messianic Jesus Crap from the virtual Israpundit Missionary. Take your phony god person and stick it where
@ CuriousAmerican:
Thank God! I wouldn’t want to resemble a Christian lady – they are a BAD influence!
Breaking the rules AGAIN CA?
@ CuriousAmerican:
No. Moshciach is not Yoshka. Your proselytising:unwelcome. Assuming you are an xtian which I doubt.
Yoshka was not the first Jew gullible Jews thought was the Moschiach. There have been many. Why do you have the arrogance to assume that Jews would accept him more readily than say the Shabtaei Tzvi or the many other false messiahs?
@ CuriousAmerican:
Blueprint
CuriousAmerican Said:
Fool!! You are seeing prophesy being fulfilled daily in front of your eyes and without benefit of your dead guy on a stick.
The MOST Important Video About Israel You’ll Ever See!
You may be a woman; but you are hardly a lady.
CuriousAmerican Said:
Rav Nachman asked Rav Yitzhak, ‘have you heard when Bar Nafli will come? ’Rav Yitzhak asked, ‘who is Bar Nafli’…Rav Yitzhak said, the Messiah [Sanhedrin 96b]
The Messiah will be absolutely mortal, born of a man and a woman [Rambam, Sefer HaVikuah 88]
The king messiah will be like one of us in every aspect, with a mother and a father. He also will be among the people in exile, suffering the afflictions of exile as his brethren.[Abarbanel, Yeshuot Meschicho 3:3]
“Shevet achim gam yachad: “tribes of brothers [living and worshiping] as one, totally united” is the famous refrain of psalm 133, one of the fifteen songs of ascent chanted on the holy days of Sukkot the festival of booths. Hinai mah tov: “it is so good…” In the culminating of the three pilgrim feasts, all Israel unite to re-experience and affirm the teachings in the wilderness and to affirm that they will raise et Sukkat David HaNofelet, “the fallen booth of David” (Amos 9:11). From this verse the Mishnaic sage Rav Nachman derives a nickname of messiah (above). The extensive discussion of his arrival and of the end of days in Talmudic Tractate Sanhedrin emphasizes that the timing of his appearance reflects the status and behavior of all Israel: our actions make a difference, a big difference. So like the lead verse in the famous song, holy writings on the destiny of the Jews emphasize their character as a family that must be whole, intact, complete (shaleim) and in which each person is responsible for the wellbeing of all. The integrity that confronted the sorcerer Balaam turned his curses to blessings (Numbers 22-4).
Today again Israel must change a curse to a blessing…” (Prof. Eugene Narrett Z”L)
“And hasten the End, — salvation; avenge with vengeance the blood of Your servants… for the triumph is too long delayed…” Events hasten onward.
“In the twilight of history, our age when “all the nations of the world gather against Jerusalem”; when we watch them “consume Jacob, and devour his pleasant habitation” piece by piece like sharks, like predatory beasts. Year by year for decades we watch the noose pulled tighter by the powers. Still, “behold! They may indeed gather together but it is without My consent. Whoever will gather against you will fall because of you” says the Eternal One, will fall as the Nefillim (“fallen ones”), Anakim (“giants” or “enormities”), and the Rephaim (“shades”) fell, those who brutally attacked and those who should have helped but did not (Isaiah 54:15, Zohar 25a & b).”
“Any weapon whetted against you shall not succeed, and any tongue that contends with you in judgment, you shall condemn; this is the heritage of the servants of the Lord and their due reward from Me, says the Lord.” (Isa 54:17)
@ CuriousAmerican:
you wish! Gotta get the last word in? Hmmmmmm? That’s a womans right dahling!!
@ Salomon Benzimra:Great article, Salomon. As always.
This was my version of “the day after” back in 2010;
You won’t see prophecy fulfilled that UNTIL the Messiah you, yamit82, presently reject, returns. 🙂
Look who’s talking.
You are paranoid
I like you, too, Dove
@ CuriousAmerican:
Stop taking things out of context.
What are you going to accuse ME of next? Stalking? hahahahahahahhahahahha – actually CA I find that accusation rather hilarious.
Reap what you sew! Nighty nite!
Dove’s prior comment
That is not a mere question. It is an implicit accusation.
Stop accusing me falsely.
@ CuriousAmerican:
First of all….it was not an accusation. It was a question.
Your response was stupid. As if we aren’t already aware of what could hurt Israel??? Stop treating us like morons.
Unbelieveable
Like duh?! you!
Read it again.
What was saying is that any EMP which could take out European electricity would also hurt Israel.
I was telling yamit that the same weapon which would hurt Iran and Europe might also hurt Israel.
No guilt trip was intended or even evident.
Are you that paranoid that you could think that I was laying a guilt trip on you? You accuse others of sins that do not exist.
You accusations against me were always grotesquely irrational. This confirms it.
@ CuriousAmerican:
And Israel
And Israel
@ mar55:
And of coarse I always take a ‘time out’ for Shabbat!
@ mar55:
Thanks mar55. I really enjoy some of your quips too! Been really busy – year end with work. Keep getting snowed in. Just had another storm last nite. How are you holding up with the weather? It’s awful that we have people dying during this extreme weather. I also took in a stranded family for a couple of days. No rest for the weary!!
@ honeybee:
It is not the New Year for Jews. We have several ‘New Years’ but Jan 1 is not one of them. Our next New Year is the 15th of Shevat. The New Year for trees.
@ Bear Klein:
@ Bear Klein:
It has been reported that Israel has several other nuclear weapons capabilities:
Suitcase bomb: Seymour Hersh reports that Israel developed the ability to miniaturize warheads small enough to fit in a suitcase by the year 1973.
Tactical nuclear weapon: Israel may also have 175 mm and 203 mm self-propelled artillery pieces, capable of firing nuclear shells. There are three battalions of the 175mm artillery (36 tubes), reportedly with 108 nuclear shells and more for the 203mm tubes. If true, these low yield, tactical nuclear artillery rounds could reach at least 25 miles (40 km), while by some sources it is possible that the range was extended to 45 miles (72 km) during the 1990s.
EMP strike capabilities: Israel allegedly possesses several 1 megaton bombs, which give it a very large EMP attack abilities. For example, if a megaton class weapon were to be detonated 400 kilometers above Omaha, NE, USA, nearly the entire continental United States would be affected with potentially damaging EMP experience from Boston to Los Angeles and from Chicago to New Orleans. A similar high altitude airburst above Iran could cause serious damage to all of the electrical systems in the Middle East, and much of Europe.
Enhanced Radiation Weapon (ERW): Israel also is reported to have an unknown number of neutron bombs.
Nuclear land mine: Israel supposedly has deployed multiple defensive nuclear land mines in the Golan Heights.
Bear Klein Said:
Look who’s talking: http://youtu.be/v8Fqin1VigU To much New Year Darlin
Bear Klein Said:
Speak for yourself Urso
@ honeybee:
So is Yamit now the Neutron Kid or just doing the Neutron Dance?
@ yamit82:
So you are now going to be known as the “Neutron Kid” if you agree. As I would not want to get in your blast radius. It is good you are not trying to be a shock jock.
yamit82 Said:
Just for you http://youtu.be/feKeJfgBBzg
Bear Klein says:
Neither!!! They are not our only choices.
@ bernard ross:
Neutron Bomb Was His Life’s Mission
bernard ross Said:
Israel could easily use the neutron bomb. It will kill them all and not destroy anything physical or material. Radiation dissipates quickly and has no lasting effects, it’s the perfect weapon to save Jewish lives and be totally devastating to any enemy on the ground. Death by radiation poisoning is the most painful and terrifying method of dying. I would not enjoy seeing even for people I hate suffering such a death. But in a situation of them or us it the best weapon of choice and soooo cheap to employ. disposing of all those dead bodies will be the problem.
These may be the most important links you will ever view and read
http://www.pjtv.com/?cmd=mpg&mpid=56&load=3647
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_QFXGxw6Tk
The PLO and PA hold the return of Palis refugees and their descendents more as a political weapon against Israel and to keep some of their population in YESHA in check and in their fold rather than what in reality they all know that a return of refugees is neither desirable and feasible.
There is no way they would allow most of the refugees to inundate them. There is high unemployment already and the locals will not want to compete for the few Jobs available. Their wages would all be reduced to well below the survival rate based on supply and demand. There is a wide gap in comparative educational and skill levels between the Arabs in the territories and those rotting away in so called refugee camps in Jordan, Lebanon and Syria. Too many of the Palis refugees in camps around the region are trained terrorists and radicalized Jihadists, brigands and the dregs in the societies they have lived since 48. As violent and criminal as Palis society is today in the territories, it’s child’s play compared to the Refugees were they to be allowed to return.
In short if they were allowed into the territories Local Arabs will reject them and oppose them creating the potential almost a certainty of total anarchy, chaos, civil war and active attacks against Israel. In one way or another the total disintegration and destruction of the PLO and PA.
Israel in order to defend herself will need to drive them over the Jordan. Things will not be better from Jordan as they will either be destroyed by the monarchy or they will destroy the monarchy and their support base. If they succeed they will from Jordan turn against Israel and Israel will eventually have to drive them into Iraq. The defeat of Saddam and lack of a strong central government in Iraq paves the way for the eventual driving of the recidivist Palis into Iraq after they give Israel no choice by attacking Israel from Jordan. The Eastern border of Biblical Greater Israel is the Euphrates. 🙂
Israel would be forced to make that inevitable difficult decision that Kerry so often touts: kill or be killed. At that point the only questions would be which method kills the most for each use and did I start too late? This same issue can arise now with jihadis and million marchers at Israels borders. Does Israel have a plan that will kill them or is it being avoided? At that point killing them will be necessary. The one thing that most encourages such a behavior on the part of the arabs is Israel’s policies of restraint and proportionionate response: the arabs will believe that Israel will not take such “extreme” actions. Ironically the policy touted to be humane would encourage the slaughter of 1 million dummies, the only question would be: on which side of the fence would the 1 million dead dummies be?
I had some typos which I just corrected.
That is pretty much on the money, Ted.
The Arabs remain unwavering and clear in their vision of eliminating Israel. The Jews stupidly argue among themselves over the best way to commit suicide. It takes really “intelligent” Jews to be so insanely stupid and blind to reality. The real solution to the Palestinian problem is three simple words. “JORDAN IS PALESTINE!!!” and that is where the Arabs in Gaza, Israel and Judea-Samaria should go. Every other plan has been tried and failed with bloody results. Why not try a plan based on truth and sanity if that is not expecting too much from our Jewish leaders who suffer from cancer of the soul?
You are absolutely correct. This is the other reason the PLO does not want to accept a Jewish State they could not fit all the potential immigrants into the West Bank. They want these people to be able to go Israel. We must start pushing for one state sovereignty. The Arabs who call themselves Palestinians outside of Israel (including Y/S) need to find other solutions.
When we close the door to a possible two state solution in Judah and Samaria in the very long run acceptance of the circumstances will be adopted by most of the local Arabs. I envision a situation (very long term) like in Spain where the vast majority of Basques live their lives without conflict and productively. If we shut an iron gate on the two state solution over generations this could occur in Israel.
Hotovely Presents: The Gradual Plan – ‘Annexation – Naturalization’
When Deputy Minister of Transportation, MK Tzipi Hotovely is asked what the Right should present as a political goal and an alternative to the ‘Two-State’ plan she answers simply, “The goal is for Judea and Samaria to be under Israeli sovereignty. It is ours and it was acquired legally in a bloody, defensive war. We must now implement the
vision of the Greater Land of Israel and begin to apply sovereignty in all of the territory. This is the vision reflecting belief in the holy precept that the Land of Israel is ours and we have no right to revoke
this precept. It is fidelity to the ideology of the Right and the religious public, which believes that this is our land.”
Although the vision mentioned in the title is a simple concept,Hotovely is well aware of the difficulties that stand in the way of implementing this vision, and the first of them, “the hot potato that everyone has been passing from hand to hand until now” as she defines it, is: what will happen with the Arab population in the territories of Judea and Samaria the day after application of Israeli sovereignty?
The deputy minister envisions a solution to the matter in gradual phases. “I start with the assumption that this is a hostile population whose abiding dream is not to be part of the Jewish Zionist state. Therefore we must address several matters simultaneously.”
Jewish-Nationalist Legislation
The first matter Hotovely addresses is Jewish immigration to Israel(aliyah). “We need to strengthen the Jewish population
demographically. When Ben Gurion established the Jewish state, there were six hundred thousand Jews along with four hundred and fifty thousand Arabs. These are frightening numbers for a small country without strong defenses. The state could have been destroyed within a short time by Arab procreation and nevertheless Ben Gurion did not hesitate; he established the State and opened its doors to the ingathering of the exiles, seeing the 12 million Jews of the Diaspora
as a target. If this is what Ben Gurion did when we were a weak country, then when the country is secure and economically strong, a country that is good to live in, should we be ashamed to speak of gathering in the exiles? If, of the nine million Jews in the world, we bring one million, we have already provided a significant demographic answer.”
Sovereignty over Area C and the Issue of Citizenship
Hotovely urges a prudent approach to the issue of granting citizenship. “I do not think that it is necessary to give automatic citizenship,” she says and clarifies: “We must begin a gradual process of 25 years under the heading of ‘annexation-naturalization’.
Unfortunately, I must now use the ABC letters used in the Oslo documents. As we know, Area C includes the entire Jewish population and along with it a small number of about one hundred thousand Arabs.
This is a number that the State of Israel can manage. I’m not satisfied with just this, and I have no intention to give up ninety percent of the territory or to establish a hostile entity in the remaining area, like the one in Gaza, and this is in addition to my ideological objection to such a concession.”
“That group of one hundred thousand will be a sort of test case for the future,” she adds and clarifies: “Laws will be passed to define the State of Israel as a state for the Jewish people, the Law of Return will be anchored as a Basic Law and within the framework of the Jewish laws of the state, it will be stated that all who request equal rights in the State of Israel will have obligations such as taxes and National Service. The Arab population today is free of these
obligations and this population will be tested anew within the framework of new obligations. I do not believe in declarations of loyalty but in the test of actions. Whoever does not take part in National Service and bear part of the economic burden does not deserve to have certain rights. We must abolish the thought that since they are native-born, we cannot apply the naturalization laws to them. We must bear in mind that this is a hostile entity and it is impossible
to turn them into citizens overnight. There is an intermediate phase of residency that can serve as a sort of candidacy period for citizenship. The drastic step of immediate citizenship for a million and a half Palestinians would be irresponsible and to think of doing such a thing is not serious.”
Hotovely believes that a phased process such as this, beginning in Area C, would be a significant statement to the world that “the ‘Two-State’ story is over. We cannot continue on this pointless course that leads nowhere.”
“Which is Preferable – the Gaza Model or the Sakhnin Model?”
Hotovely is also aware of the difficulty of “selling” the strategy she describes to the Israeli public, who, according to her, want to see the Arabs on the other side of the fence – mixing the populations worries and concerns both the Left and the Right. “I ask a simple question. What is better for you, the Gaza model or the Sakhnin model?
Sakhnin is indeed not an exemplary model of citizenship but, given the problems the State of Israel has in controlling the Arab population, applying Western thought patterns and developing an understanding that it pays to live with us allows for a vision of future coexistence. This is in addition to an intelligence point of view.”