Using Documentary as Manipulation
By Roz Rothstein and Roberta Seid
The JPost
Dror Moreh’s documentary, The Gatekeepers, could have been a profound film.
Instead, Moreh uses his interviews with six former directors of Israel’s top security services to send a simplistic and deeply partisan political message: If Israel withdraws from the West Bank, terrorism will subside and peace will break out.
To promote this message, the documentary engages in intellectual dishonesty and omits critical context. While most Israelis know the wider context, the average viewer probably does not, and therefore is vulnerable to the filmmaker’s biased version of the facts.
Though the film tries to portray Israel’s antiterrorism policies as counterproductive and cruel, the interviews inadvertently tell a different story. The six directors are well-spoken, deeply thoughtful, and genuinely self-critical.
They exude gravitas as they describe wrestling with the moral quandaries they regularly faced.
They are not cruel men. They sincerely grappled with how to protect Israelis and Palestinian civilians alike. Their descriptions of the Shin Bet’s legal and ethical constraints are a testament to Israel’s high moral standards. Their comfort in speaking freely is a testament to Israel’s robust democracy.
However, the film repeatedly ignores history and context. It blames Israel for the Palestinian hostility and violence that occurred after 1967, when Israel began administering the West Bank.
The viewer never learns from the film that terrorism against Jews and Israelis was not a result of Israel’s administration but rather has been a regular feature of life since pre-state days.
Palestinian Arabs murdered over 1,000 Jews between 1920 and 1967, and they ethnically cleansed all Jewish communities from the areas they captured during the 1948 war, including the West Bank, Gaza and eastern Jerusalem. The pattern of terrorism simply continued after Israel’s victory in its 1967 defensive war. Yasser Arafat organized 61 Fatah military operations from the West Bank in the few months after the war, and 162 Israelis were killed by terrorists between 1968 and 1970.
Visually and verbally, the film portrays Israel as a heartless occupier. Audiences get no information about how harsh life was for Palestinians under Egyptian and Jordanian rule between 1948 and 1967, with rampant childhood diseases, economic stagnation and restricted civil and political rights. In addition, the documentary completely overlooks the big picture of positive Israeli-Palestinian relations after 1967.
Even as Israel sought to stop terrorists, it also instituted Palestinian municipal self-government and administration, introduced freedom of speech and association, and vastly modernized the Palestinian economy as well as Palestinian health, welfare and education, turning the West Bank and Gaza into the world’s fourth fastest growing economy in the 1970s and 1980s.
In line with his political agenda, Moreh tries to paint all religious Israelis, settlers and rightof- center parties as extremist and intransigent.
The film insinuates that just as many Palestinians are terrorists and incite hatred, so do many Jews. For proof, Moreh magnifies selected incidents, particularly the case of Jewish settlers from Hebron who formed the “Jewish Underground” in 1980.
The film would have audiences believe the Jewish Underground, which wounded two Palestinian mayors, murdered three Palestinians, and plotted to blow up four Palestinian buses and the Dome of the Rock, is fairly representative of most settlers. It is not. Save for the handful of members of the Jewish Underground, Israel does not have Jewish terrorist organizations.
While extremists exist in Israel as in any society, the overwhelming majority of settlers, both religious and secular, are law-abiding citizens.
The country as a whole condemns and marginalizes such extremism. The Shin Bet arrested the Jewish Underground leaders in 1984, and the Israeli government and the vast majority of Israelis, including other settlers, denounced the group, though some Israeli leaders at the time continued to express concerns about the lack of government protection for Hebron’s Jews.
Similarly, because the sentences meted out to the Jewish Underground’s leaders were commuted, the film implies that the Israeli government has been “soft” on Jewish extremists and uses double standards, treating Jewish terrorists far more leniently than Palestinian terrorists.
But these members were freed only after serving almost seven years, not because Israel was “soft” on Jewish terrorists but because Israel had released the very Palestinian prisoners who had perpetrated the attacks that drove the Jewish Underground to organize.
SUCH OMISSIONS of fact and context continue throughout the film. Moreh makes the Shin Bet’s actions seem immoral or counterproductive by minimizing the context of terrorism.
Moreh glosses over the impact of the second intifada (2000-2005), yet the horrors of its terrorism and the fanatical hatred that motivated suicide bombers decimated Israel’s peace camp, a critical fact that the film simply overlooks. The audience does not learn that almost 1,100 Israelis were murdered and thousands more maimed by terrorists during the second intifada.
More disappointingly, the film never alludes to the daunting challenge these Shin Bet directors faced. Israel is fighting terrorists who routinely hide among Palestinian civilians precisely to shield themselves from IDF attacks because they know the IDF tries to avoid harming innocent bystanders. Pressed by the interviewer to admit that the Shin Bet’s actions were immoral during his tenure (1981-1986), Avraham Shalom finally snaps back: “This isn’t about morality…. When the terrorists become moral, we’ll be moral.”
Nor does the film depict the nature of the enemy Israel faces. Hamas’ genocidal ideology never comes up in the interviews. Yet the goals of Hamas, clearly expressed in its charter and its leaders’ statements, call for the murder of Jews and the “obliteration” of Israel, and are suffused with anti-Semitism. The film ignores the relentless incitement to hate and kill Jews that pervades Palestinian society officially and unofficially.
The film never explores the significance of what one Shin Bet director heard from a PLO terrorist he interrogated: terrorists consider it a victory when they make Jews suffer.
More disturbingly, the viewer never learns that Israel has repeatedly tried to do precisely what Moreh advocates. The film never mentions Israel’s offers to trade land for peace in 1967, 1979, 2000 and 2008, or that Palestinian leaders systematically rejected these offers.
Moreh wants audiences to share his wishful thinking, that Israel can end the conflict simply by withdrawing from the West Bank. But recent history, omitted from the film, contradicts this expectation. Israel pulled out of its security zone in Lebanon in 2000 and removed every settlement and over 8,000 Israelis from Gaza in 2005. The results were escalating threats and terrorism from Iranian proxy Hezbollah in Lebanon and from Iranian client Hamas in Gaza, which fired over 13,000 rockets and mortars into Israel’s southern communities between 2005 and 2012.
The documentary should be credited for revealing how much Israelis have retained their humanity and their hopes for peaceful coexistence, as exemplified by the Shin Bet directors.
This is a tribute to the Israeli spirit and to Israel’s enduring search for peace, but it also underscores Israel’s tragic dilemma: Israelis want peace, but they cannot find partners for peace unless, like Moreh, they turn a blind eye to the ongoing hostility and threats against them.
Moreh’s effort to blame Israel and the Shin Bet’s actions for the ongoing hostility to the Jewish state is like blaming the victim who is defending himself instead of blaming the perpetrator.
The Gatekeepers‘ material could have produced a profound film if it had not been sacrificed for a political message and if the film had been more intellectually honest and included the historical pattern of genocidal ideology, the ongoing violence, and the existential strategic challenges that Israel faces every day. It is these hard realities and that make the Shin Bet’s work so crucial and so heroic.
Roz Rothstein is the CEO and co-founder of StandWithUs. Roberta Seid, PhD, is the research and education director of StandWithUs.
the phoenix Said:
phoenix good to see you too, i am not slacking, lots of commenting in the Augean Stables plus reading on honor-shame cultures which is the topic that Dr Landes is currently teaching at the university. Oh, and something for our common friend:
Thinly veiled Judeophobic observations and judgements meant as evidence of Christian superiority. 😛
Alex Markin Said:
Alex i don’t think Yamit answers for the benefit of Curious American, but rather for the benefit of readers who would like to see proper and informative responses to to Curious American’s points.
CuriousAmerican Said:
From Your J for J link: “What is the evidence that Jesus rose from the dead?”
The Catholic Church’s Response to Our Critique of Christian Credibility
Questions posed and read the answers by clicking link!!
(1) The Gospels teach that Jesus appeared to the disciples after his resurrection. We are unclear, however, whether those appearances took place in Jerusalem or in the Galilee (or at both locales). According to our reading, the Galilean accounts seem to rule out prior Jerusalem appearances. Where did Jesus actually appear? If he appeared in Jerusalem, how should we read the Galilean accounts?
(2) We find the genealogy of Jesus provided by the Gospels confusing. Who was Jesus’ paternal grandfather? (We notice that Matthew says that his grandfather was Jacob, but Luke says it was Heli). Also, we notice that Matthew declares that Jesus was separated from King David by only twenty-eight generations, but Luke’s list shows a forty-three generation separation. What does this contradiction mean?
(3) The genealogical line linking Jesus and King David seems to pass through Jesus’ father. But since Jesus was the product of a virgin conception, then he does not share in his father’s Davidic ancestry. How is Jesus a descendent of David?
Hi Yamit:
Lots of content in your response above. Seems the material on Yeishu Hanotzri is as questionable as any of the evidence claimed for Jesus Christ, all “documented” long after the events in question. As you do point out the virgin birth concept is common in prior deistic mythologies. I would not use the term pagan to describe them, unless by definition all religions are pagan, as they do worship inanimate objects by granting them or inventing for them divine providence.
You are wasting your time on the curious (NOT) creep.
CuriousAmerican Said:
OK, this IS A SAMPLE OF HOW IDeal WITH IT!!
There is no story of Jesus which is uniformly accepted worldwide. Millions of honest people in Asia, who make up the majority of the world’s population, have failed to be convinced by the Christian story of Jesus since there is no compelling evidence for its authenticity.
Jesus was not an historical person. The whole New Testament story came from people called Notzrim at the time of Rabbi Yehoshua ben Perachyah (c. 100 B.C.E.). Although modern Christians claim that Christianity only started in the first century C.E., it is clear that the first century Christians in Israel considered themselves to be a continuation of the Notzri movement which had been in existence for about 150 years. One of the most notorious Notzrim was Yeishu ben Pandeira, also known as Yeishu ha-Notzri. Talmudic scholars have always maintained that the story of Jesus began with Yeishu. The Hebrew name for Jesus has always been Yeishu and the Hebrew for “Jesus the Nazarene” has always been “Yeishu ha-Notzri.”
Yeishu ha-Notzri is not an historical Jesus since modern Christianity denies any connection between Jesus and Yeishu and moreover, parts of the Jesus myth are based on other historical people besides Yeishu. The New Testament story confuses so many historical periods that there is no way of reconciling it with history.
The virgin birth story was probably invented to clear Mary’s name as an adultress. The early Christians did not suck this story out of their thumbs. Virgin birth stories were fairly common in pagan myths.
The theme of a divine or semi-divine child who is feared by an evil king is very common in pagan mythology. The usual story is that the evil king receives a prophecy that a certain child will be born who will usurp the throne. In some stories the child is born to a virgin and usually he is son of a god. The mother of the child tries to hide him. The king usually orders the slaying of all babies who might be the prophecied king. Examples of myths which follow this plot are the birth stories of Romulus and Remus, Perseus, Krishna, Zeus, and Oedipus. Although Torah literalists will not like to admit it, the story of Moses’s birth also resembles these myths (some of which claim that the mother put the child in a basket and placed him in a river). There were probably several such stories circulating in the Levant which have been lost. The Christian myth of the slaughter of the innocents by Herod is simply a Christain version of this theme. The plot was so well known that one Midrashic scholar could not resist using it for an apocryphal account of Abraham’s birth.
There is absolutely no reliable and acceptable historical evidence of Jesus. All references to Jesus are derived from the superstitious beliefs and myths of the early Christian community. The majority of these beliefs only came into existence after the persecution by Nero and the tragedy of 70 C.E. Many of these beliefs are based on the pagan legends about the gods Tammuz, Osiris, Attis, Dionysus and the sun god Mithras. Other myths about Jesus appear to be based on various different historical people such as the convicted criminals Yeishu ben Pandeira and ben Stada, and the crucified false Messiahs Yehuda, Theudas and Benjamin, but none of these people can be regarded as an historical Jesus.
Thinly veiled vulgarity meant as an insult.
CuriousAmerican Said:
american…
foxtrot oscar!
and with that as an introduction…
mitropoulos!!
where have you been, man?
i am putting you on notice for slacking off!
🙂
good to see you back dionissis.
Click here (Who is Jesus?)
If you are genuine, and not playing stupid, that is a good place to start?
Ted frowns on theological issues, so I will merely offer the link as a response.
I am asking Yamit to deal for his own behalf.
Concerning my comment #37, i meant to write “Bernard” instead of “Yamit”. The sentence should have been: “You curious American seem to delight in finding Bernard the Jew morally inferior to you the enlightened Christian”.
Anyway, it doesn’t make any real difference, Curious American is happy to detect moral inferiority in any Jew, he wouldn’t mind my mistake.
comment to curious in moderation
CuriousAmerican Said:
ya gotta learn to read lips, american or better yet nato’s phonetic alphabet…
as yamit said, with the exception of one or two persons on this forum, the reply to that little highlighted whine of yours is:
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot cares???
CuriousAmerican Said:
🙂 🙂 🙂
do you want to know the ‘different idea’, american?
you cannot handle the ‘different idea’, american!
yamit82 Said:
Bernard Ross Said:
the phoenix Said:
are you catching the drift by now, american or not yet?
CuriousAmerican Said:
Who is Jesus?
And why are you asking Yamit to deal with a Jew on your behalf?
One big response to Curious American’s comment 31 in moderation.
CuriousAmerican Said:
You curious American seem to delight in finding Yamit the Jew morally inferior to you the enlightened Christian.
I am not a psychologist, but i would go for “Christian Inferiority Syndrome”.
@ CuriousAmerican:
CuriousAmerican Said:
No, it is not because you are not blood thirsty that i consider you Judeophobic.
I specifically identified your vice as wanting to see the Jews being morally inferior to you the enlightened Christian.
CuriousAmerican Said:
Curious American, do you even think before you write these things?
Where did i make any reference to security? Or when did i say that i oppose to paying the Arabs to leave? Or where did i address anything from what you are attributing to me as points of disagreement with you? Nowhere in my reply to you.
You have this emotional need to blame Jews for bloodthirstiness, and you are so blinded by it that you cannot even see whom you are talking to or what she is saying to you.
But here comes proof that you are indeed a Judeophobe:
CuriousAmerican Said:
Nazi analogies – again, as i indicated to you the other time.
But the analogy fails in the most important respect.
Yamit was talking about being forced to exterminate the Pals as a result of the Pals future behavior.
The Nazis never gave a way-out to the Jews, they did not give them the chance to live if only they avoided a specific behavior. They exterminated them just because they were Jews, and there was nothing the Jews could do about it.
Being given a chance to survive and being given no such chance makes a tremendous moral difference for the (potential)victim and for the moral status of the perpetrator of violence.
Yamit’s behavior is not morally equivalent with the Nazi behavior, on account of this difference.
Don’t they teach you such things at Christian schools? I mean haven’t you ever heard about gratuitous violence, or exculpatory circumstances, or such stuff?
Yes, Yamit. When we steal Jewish souls, we put them in vacuum packed coffee cans; and resell them around the world for soul transplants.
ARE YOU INSANE?!
Jesus was Jewish, Yamit. Deal with it.
May you never lose … because with a policy like that, the vengenance will be vicious and savage. Arabs are Semites like Israel and have long memories. They bear grudges no less than the Jewish people.
May you never lose … seriously!
War is brutal; but you seem to delight in it.
That could have been written by the Kommandant over the Warsaw Ghetto. All you would have to do is append the words …
"… für das Reich."
Yamit, do you even think before you write these things?
Yeah! It is because I am not bloodthirsty enough. Because I do not advocate mass kiling, and ethnic cleansing, with blood in the teeth, ripped veins, and broken bones, you consider me an anti-Semite.
As for security: What could bring more security to Israel than paying Arabs to move 8000 miles to South America?
Moving them to Jordan leave angry Arabs next to you. Moving them to Chile put an ocean and a sea between Israel and them.
But that is not bloodthirsty enough for you. Enough Goyim are not being killed.
It is a question of practicality. South America has already absorbed and assimilated millions of Arabs.
Some of them were Muslim. Even those Muslims had kids who often became Christian.
You have been saying that for 65 years. Will it change results?
Are you going to keep doing the same thing and expect different results? That is the definition of madness.
The Arabs will not absorb them. So try a different idea.
Well, at least you have some pity on Lebanon. Lebanon asked Israel to take the Arabs back.
yamit82 Said:
Israel used to give 10 for one. the foisting of the proportionate response doctrine on the Jews is another disingenuous euro swindle to allow the enemy to overwhelm by numbers.
The Israeli acceptance is just sheer stupidity, kowtowing and an incentive to the terrorists to continue.
yamit82 Said:
collective punishment works and is appropo. If a village or clan is wiped out when an Israeli is killed there will be pressure on the terrorists from their families and they will run to emigrate. This would end terror against the jews and would justify its application. The christians and euros will point a condemning finger of morality while supporting and financing the arabs to kill jews. However, live israelis and dead enemies are the only goal to consider in a war as obtains now, anything else is foolish groveling to the masters of old, who also want dead jews.
@ CuriousAmerican:
The topics that you choose to discuss sound as if you are. They are most of the time overcritical of Israeli morality.
Almost nobody in here cares if you do, because you have alienated them through your biased criticism of their ethics.
On this board you are being criticized because you express the Judeophobic part of yourself.
No.
The chief complaint is that you talk like a covert anti-Semite.
Mentioning moral equivalence twice in your sentence, as you have done time and and again in this forum, shows the gist of your motivation: you need to see the Jews as morally inferior. I gave you the link to the Augean Stables discussion of moral schadenfreude the other time. The very fact that you don’t feel the slightest shame to have been exposed speaks a lot about what you really are: a fanatic Christian who either does not realize his Judeophobia, or does not really mind it.
Either way, you look like a threat.
You curious American are not helping his cause with your bile.
CuriousAmerican Said:
The vermin will overplay their hand and force us to exterminate them. They will then cease to be a problem in the present and the future.
Works for me!!!! I have always favored disproportionate responses and retribution. Saves Lives (ours and theirs) in the long run.
BTW, nobody ever asked you for your approval nor do we care what you think, I don’t!!!
Unlike some here I value your comments. Jews should see an example of what we are facing. You represent I think a large swath of gentiles who are in some ways pro Israel but hate Jews and Judaism. Never should they automatically accept that a Christian gentile is pro Jew and and not anti Judaism just because they appear to be supportive in some ways of Israel.
Keep commenting.
Note: The only one commenting on this site who seems to support you is dweller. Not surprising to me; in so many ways you are alike even theological soul Brothers. 😉
CuriousAmerican Said:
Our claim to the Land of Israel is much stronger than your claim to USA.
That said I am not opposed to the USA. I believe you can stay there with full rights and obligations. I think you should also pay all those undocumented Mexicans to return home. How about $200,000 per adult and half as much for minors? For America, it’s only worthless digital money anyway. More can be created out of thin air when necessary.
Same worthless money can pay for your Arabs even cheaper than Mexicans. Certainly for lasting Peace in the ME, it’s a small price for you rich Americans to pay, a few billion is chump change in comparison. With that kind of dough every Arab nation would be fighting to receive them.
Of course you would lose a lot of Potential souls to steal!!!
Andrew Said:
THE Pregnant question should be; what have we done to deserve having them live among us?
How are things Andrew?
As an everyday reader of Israpundit I for one am sick of the sick postings of Curious American. Please,other readers, stop responding to him and he will go away. He is amongst the many who choose to ignore facts and logic so why bother trying to educate him.
Aren’t there any wealthy CONSERVATIVE Jews to produce pro-Israel films? Why have we allowed the left to control the narrative? Why can’t conservatives make films and market and promote them? Conservatives need to stop whining about left wing control of the media, arts and entertainment and start producing their own. They won’t win any oscars but who cares as long as they get the message out.
@ CuriousAmerican:
I’m so sick of your BS. The Jews did not ethnically cleanse arabs. The arabs fled from the war their fellow arabs started with the goal of snuffing out the Jewish state. Others were told by their leaders to leave so that they would not be in the way of their slaughtering the Jews. Jews were purposely driven out of muslim countries, their properties confiscated. There is no moral equivalence between the two sides. Not then and not now. So just get lost already. Your only purpose here is to antagonize.
CuriousAmerican Said:
a point of agreement!
CuriousAmerican Said:
To restore Justice to the transferred Jews from the nations of the arab allies of the Pals I recommend quid pro quo. That which the losing enemies did to their Jews, and found acceptable to the world community in spite of the Geneva Conventions, must be considered to be an acceptable solution. If not then it is a double standard which must be unacceptable to the jews. The Pals and the arab nations were allies who have been losing repeated wars without paying the correct price. whether it is called ethnic cleansing, transfer or emigration means nothing as does the GC which did not help cleansed Jews. Whats good for the jew is good for the gander: a simple moral authority which precedes “law”.
Whether the arabs go to SA or elsewhere doesn’t matter to me; however, in forced deportations the borders are easier logistically. There are 3 weak and convenient borders for transfer should the opportunity arrive. The fact is that with current Israeli leadership and the lack of a big war, mass transfers are unlikely so your solution may have a more likely chance of occurring. If BDS and sanctions occur, Israel could make sure that the pals suffer the brunt which would encourage them to leave. Perhaps the EU in their sympathy can give them grants to move there as asylum seekers? Houses are needed on YS for a growing Jewish population and there are many Jewish houses in arab lands for the west bank arabs. a swap of housing and populations is the moral solution which includes justice for Jews as well as arabs. Actually my only disagreement with you might be : who pays? Certainly those who are already laying out money to prop up the status quo have an interest in seeing an end to the payouts and an integration of refugees. The arab nations, the UN, the EU are the prime funders who should pay. Israel could contribute based upon the savings resulting from the emigration. If you and I can come to agreement with a solution which concludes with an emigration solution just think what diplomatic possibilities exist out there. Let’s hurry to Washington and sign now! 🙂
@ yamit82:
I guess instinctively, I must be a Torah scholar…. 🙂
That is my belief as well.
When a site in the body was identified AND MARKED as cancerous, there is no ‘surgical’ operation performed, (in the sense that the surgeon is trying everything he can not to remove
the neighboring heathy tissue)
To the contrary!
There is a good deal of ‘collateral damage’ healthy tissue removed from the entire periphery
Furthermore,
The operation is still not complete… TO ENSURE COMPLETE REMOVAL OF THE CANCER, samples are being sent to be examined and ensure no cancerous tissue is left behind.
I equate Islam with an extremely aggressive form of cancer that must be eradicated.
Fwiw, I do not consider my view stemming from hate.
On the contrary! It stems from love. Love and pride for the Jewish nation!
For were we to be left alone, none of that would be necessary.
…so the poor american will be without a job ! There would be nothing to ‘morally equate….. 🙂
CuriousAmerican Said:
An example of moral equivalence is if the Jews would Support the Arabs to Kill Christians.
I’m not justifying the actions by the child and his mother but I don’t condemn them either.
A- The Arabs should not be there, they are living on stolen property and are the true invaders.
B- The film does not show context and what provocations besides their presence that might have motivated this family to act as they did. A few hundred Jews surrounded by 100k enemy Arabs is not an easy life to endure. Those Jews in Hebron are some of our strongest and best Jews. They are physically with their bodies holding on to our heritage under very difficult and dangerous conditions.
sabasarge Said:
From one Vet to another: The Torah is wise, as usual. We are commanded to expel the natives because they would always seek to harm us, seeing us correctly as invaders who robbed them of their country. As long as a single Arab lives in the Land of Israel, no Jew can feel safe. That’s prevention. What about punishment? The only way to punish and possibly deter them is to go after their families. Not with house demolitions, because the martyrs’ families quickly get new houses elsewhere, purchased with Saudi or Fatah money, through Israeli tax transfers to the Palestinians. The terrorists’ families must suffer in tit-for-tat fashion and—in line with the Torah—until the fourth generation. Like it or not, there is no alternative to going after the terrorist’s families, killing and mutilating entire households. Israeli police cannot do that, but they can turn a blind eye to good Jews lynching the relatives of bad Palestinians.
Natives can live in the territories beyond the Promised Land conquered in monarchic (non-obligatory) wars – if they accept tribute and servitude. In the Promised Land, they can only live as gerim, proselytes.
An incredibly stupid statement: “As Rabbi Kahane used to say, a fingernail of Jewish child is worth more to us than any number of Arabs.”
American, you are intellectually dishonest and possibly worse. You use the despicable and resoundingly condemned reactions of a small and very marginal Jewish minority to imply moral equivalence. You are not curious. You ignore the overwhelming evidence that most Pals do not condemn their own atrocities. In fact they dance in the streets and officially hang posters and rename streets and places to applaud them. Have you ever heard of Pals treating Israelis in their hospitals? It is common practice for Israeli hospitals to treat wounded or ailing Pals. Or maybe you espouse racism by your low expectations of Pals and therefore excuse them because these “primitives” know not what they do, while expecting Israelis to be 100% in line with your lofty expectations for them. You seem to use their rare exceptions to express your one sided outrage. As the Pals are not supported by their everloving brethren are you now suggesting Israel be the good guy and buy them out? How hypocritically “Christian” of you, demanding Israelis turn their cheeks for yet another slap. You studiously ignore the fact these everloving brethren did steal the possessions of about 700,000 Jews forced to leave them and never ever did compensate them for that. Never again.
@ CuriousAmerican:
What have the South Americans done to deserve having arab/muslims shipped over to them. All the arabs living in J & S should be absorbed by other arab countries. However no other arab country wants them. Only one country has taken them in and that was lebanon. The pals displayed their gratitude by destroying the country.
Take a look at this then.
Israelis cheer the deaths of Palestinian Children
http://972mag.com/news-of-palestinian-children-killed-in-crash-met-with-racism/35543/
Israeli kids and mother attacking Arabs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlAHae9xcUY
Some of this is morally equivalent.
=========================
I am NOT opposed to Israel.
I think you have a claim on Judea and Samaria.
I just recommend that you buy out the Arabs in the Area by paying their way to set up a life in South America, since the Muslim nations will not accept them. Some Israelis have had similar ideas. Moishe Feglin for example.
On this board because I do not advocate ethnic cleansing of Arabs I am lied about.
Is your chief complaint that I am not sufficiently bloodthirsty?
Yes, some of this stuff is morally equivalent. I have no illusions about the Arabs or Islam; but some of this is morally equivalent.
You are not helping your cause with such bile.
Comment to the american in moderation
@ CuriousAmerican:
Further to that little t-shirt link of yours, american, I invite to read THIS:
You can read the entire interview here http://www.arieheldad.co.il/an-interview-with-mk-arieh-eldad.
So like I was saying, american…. The idea behind the t-shirt is one of pure prevention.
And I think you know by now where to put your ideas about these pooowah awabs…
It just KILLS me to see this screaming injustice towards my fellow Jews. And the shameless arguments brought on to this forum by you AND YOUR ILK!!!
I wish I were in position to actually decide what should be done with that subhuman pos and the town that she came from….
Roz and Roberta, were you there Charlie? No, you were at Bloomingdales. The Shin Bet chiefs were there. My Academy member friends predict “Sugarman” will win the foreign documentary Oscar, but they all voted for “The Gatekeepers” and they’re all apolitical. Now, the sentiment is building for “Five Broken Cameras”, the Palestinian film. If it wins, Roz and Roberta will stuff themselves at Zabar’s. Although, Katz’s Deli still makes the best hot pastrami.
@ CuriousAmerican:
@ the phoenix:
I hope you DID understand that my comment was addressed to you, american.
🙂
@ CuriousAmerican:
As distasteful as that t-shirt is, if one were to be intellectually honest one could easily recall all the Arab mothers who have literally cried with happiness when learning that their child has blown him/herself to bits while in the act of murdering innocent Jewish civilians.
I’ve heard some of these same mothers pray to their allah so that they might have another baby who could kill himself, just so long as Jews were murdered as well.
Kinda puts that t-shirt into pertinent context, wouldn’t you say?
Sick, sick society, and decades of contact with such a truly sick society has had it’s deleterious effect on our young men and women.
As Golda put it…..We can forgive you for killing our sons, but we can never forgive you for forcing our sons to kill your sons……(paraphrased)
From a still serving IDF vet
@ CuriousAmerican:
Am Erica’s, you have searched far and wide and congratulations!
You came with a t shirt….
Is this really the best you can do?
Even as an antisemite you’re a flunkie….
It was the Israelis who produced this:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_haUxZZoiOtI/SzHRxqbKMSI/AAAAAAAABPY/E6lxIurIJ7E/s400/Israeli+one+shot+two+kills+tshirt.jpg
Both sides have been nasty.
The question is not their departure, but the means of their departure.
I recommmend that the Arabs be paid to leave; you recommend that they be ethnically cleansed.
Stop your sanctimony.
Were I in love with the Palestinians, I would have recommended the Jews go to South America.
As it is, I recommended the Palestinians be paid to go to South America.
So stop your lies.
@ CuriousAmerican:
Curious American. I guess you’re not Jewish, but rather “American”. In other words in your thinking one can’t be both Jewish and American. So as a Jew I say you spout absolute nonsense. I guess you got your facts from those wonderful Palestinians whom you are probably in love with.
CuriousAmerican Said:
here you go again, american! moral equivalency…
the ‘yitbach al’yahood’ screrams were rampant wherever you had a musloid group and a mosque.
no equivalent ‘lishchot et ha’aravim’ was ever heard from the jews of the yishuv
CuriousAmerican Said:
well, sorry buster.
you THINK you beat me to the punch but no cigar…
EVERYTHING is connected!
almost 800,000 jews (if not more)were expelled out of their homes and they left with a suitcase and their lives…
billions and billions of dollars were STOLEN and confiscated by the musloids making up the ummah…
their cousins (you DO KNOW that thay are all related and intermarried)in judea and samaria were wide eyed and could almost see themselves appropriating the properties of the jews in then palestine, (some of whom were their neighbours and, as physicians, some,have even saved some of their miserable lives!!!)
where have i heard that before….
american!
you keep repeating the same bullshit so you leave me with no choice to explain to you the facts of life once again.
throughout history, we, the jews, have been persecuted left right and center by christians like you under any pretext.
no matter what – ‘it’s the fault of the jews… and, while we’re at it let’s kill them’
how ELSE can a christian analphabet peasant, drunk and beating his wife can feel superior to a physically weak jew but obviously mentally superior….
john: hey peter, whatcha doin’… i’m bored…
peter: i dunno’ john… let’s kill some jews and then we’ll drink the rest of the barrel…
…
under many variations and proportions, culminated in the 40’s… this scenario and many others similar, have been ongoing with the tacit approval of all good christian people…
YOU (in the plural) feel the compassion towards the musloids…. hey!
go for it.
you want to pay them – pay!
actually and i’ve said it many times on other threads, the list of retributions is VERY LONG and this would be a mere symbolic gesture…
but the truth is, american, that you are sitting by the sidelines waiting for somebody else (the musloids) to do your dirty work (oh, you know… kill the jews?)
it ain’t gonna happen american!
no jew should pay a dime to no friggin’ musloid for nuthin’!!!
there is a HUGE bill to be paid by them first.
anyways, we’re not gonna hold our breath for that to happen.
and as far as the arabs in judea and samaria…
repeat after me american:
THEY MUST GO!
🙂
Y’know, I hat-tipped Ted about this – and he has not seemed to act on it yet. Maybe it was relatively minor.
http://world.time.com/2013/02/21/british-member-of-parliament-walks-out-of-debate-against-israeli-student/
British Member of Parliament Walks Out of Debate Against Israeli Student Look at video
But this is too major to ignore.
A) Galloway is a major media player. He used to have a very popular radio talk show in Britian.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_OSQIQk-uY
B) For a while, he had a show on WBAI New York, and was popular.
C) He has a show on Iran’s Press TV which gets callers from Canada, England, Ireland, Europe, Africa, and Araby. NOT ALL OF THEM ARE MUSLIM.
COMMENT
http://www.presstv.ir/section/3510524.html
D) And he used to have a second show
THE REAL DEAL
http://www.presstv.ir/section/3510520.html
E) He has a show in Lebanon
http://www.theweek.co.uk/politics/48700/george-galloway-paid-%C2%A380k-joining-pro-syria-tv-channel
This man has media outlets on four continents, and he is a member of the British Parliament
He has a large following.
Yet, this a** would not even debate an Israeli student before a Muslim audience.
Galloway was not afraid of losing.
He has a booming voice, and is a master orator (so was Hitler). If he cannot win by facts, he will prevail by emotion.
What drove him to walk out was sheer bigotry.
Galloway will probably profit by his antics; but he should be publically shamed for it.
The British Parliament, which has at times condemned him, still has admitted he is their best orator.
He defends his actions here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-qV6IJm_F4
He had a Canadian and a European Swede call in.
Galloway is an oratorical menace; and his following is increasing.
Somebody should make an effort to shame this man. What he did to that Israeli student was so vile that even the Muslims students were shocked and later criticized Galloway.
He is out of control. He is too powerful to ignore, yet few confront him. He is making his vile behavior respectable.
They try to ignore him while he builds his audience daily.
BTW: He recently won a surprise victory in England for a parliamentary seat.
And no one is sure if he converted to Islam.
Somebody should call this man out as a demogogic rabble rouser; and shame those who associate with him.
I felt sorry for that Israeli student.
BTW: From what I read, so did the Muslim students who were in the audience.
Here in America, Galloway was given a program on WBAI last year.
Rather than trying to defend Israel all the time, he should try to correct the problem.
You have 2+ Million Arabs in Judea and Samaria alone who live under gunpoint. This is not going to go away.
You have Jews who want to settle the land which the Arabs say is theirs.
Pay them to leave – I recommend South America.
Keeping a population under martial law is a recipe for violence. Would any of you tolerate it?
Since ethnic cleansing was brought up … both sides did it in 1948. It was wrong; but the number of Jews expelled in 1948 was nowhere near the number of Arabs cleansed.
The expulsion of Mizrahi Jews was not the fault of the Palestinian Arabs.