On June 5th, I posted an angry letter to Steve Linde Editor, Editor in Chief of JPOST written by Simone Simmons and prefaced it with this:
Here’s a great letter to the Post Editor-in-Chief Steve Linde, who refused Pamela the opportunity to reply to the libelous article by Rabbi Jaffee and shunted the reply to Sara Miller, Managing Editor ofJPost.comeditor of JPOST, who refused to publish it. Everyone should write a letter to him and her.
I also sent a letter to Steve Linde who replied to me. I then forwarded the reply and Pamela hit the roof because she didn’t like what he wrote. I suggested to her that I would ask Steve to publish an op-ed by her in order to put all the “unpleasantness behind us” which I did and Steve Linde to his credit immediately agreed. Pamela then sent her op–ed and Steve accepted it and extended a gracious apology to her. This is her Op-Ed. Ted Belman
In condemning Jews who speak out against jihad and Islamic supremacism, leftist rabbis are enabling the worst enemies of the Jewish people.
Last Monday in the Toronto Star, Rabbi Dow Marmur wrote an article criticizing what he referred to as my “customary rants against Islam,” saying that they would “create tensions between the two communities.”
“Rants against Islam,” i.e. condemnations of Islamic anti-Semitism, hatred of infidels, wife beating, honor killing, clitoridectomies, murder of apostates, denial of the freedom of speech, and so much more. On the heels of three anti-Semitic attacks in Montreal, another Canadian rabbi saw fit to condemn a fellow Jew for the crime of telling the truth about how jihadists use core Islamic teachings to justify various kinds of violence.
Nor was he the first rabbi to do so – a chorus of rabbis have condemned my work, claiming that it interferes with their dialogue with Muslims. But what are these rabbis really accomplishing with his dialogue, other than to obscure the root causes of the Islamic anti-Semitism that is increasing around the world? Rabbi Eric Yoffie recently published a vicious and defamatory piece attacking me in The Jerusalem Post. Where was Yoffie countering “hate” when Islamic jihadists murdered the Fogel family in Israel? Or when jihadists targeted the Chabad house in Mumbai for a savage and bloody attack? Or when Christians are persecuted on an increasingly frequent and violent basis in Egypt, Pakistan, Indonesia and elsewhere? Instead, he opposes me for standing up against this real hatred.
Jewish dissembling and obfuscation about the religious motives behind the jihad against the Jews only serves the enemies of the Jewish people. Now it has become common to assert that if Israel returns to the 1967 lines, there will be peace. But before 1967 the war against the Jews raged, and before 1948 the same war raged against the Jews – led before and during World War II by the then-leader of the Muslim world, the mufti of Jerusalem, Hajj Amin al-Husseini. Hitler’s ally, Husseini lived in Berlin during the war, raised a Muslim SS division, and cited Koranic chapter and verse as the mandate to annihilate the Jewish people. This is clear from the texts of his weekly pro- Nazi radio addresses to the Axis powers and the Islamic Ummah.
The 1,400-year history of Jews living in Muslim lands is brutal and oppressive.
Has Marmur never read Bat Ye’or or Andrew Bostom on Islamic anti- Semitism, or Sir Martin Gilbert’s history of the Jews in Muslim lands, In Ishmael’s House? All of them show that Jewhatred is a constant of Islamic history.
Historian Phillip Hitti states: “The caliph al-Mutawakkil in 850 and 854 decreed that Christians and Jews should affix wooden images of devils to their houses, level their graves even with the ground, wear outer garments of honey color, i.e. yellow, put two honey-colored patches on the clothes of their slaves… and ride only on mules and asses with wooden saddles marked by two pomegranate-like balls on the cantle.”
Andrew Bostom’s work shows much more. One thousand years later, in 1888, a Tunisian Jew lamented a similar situation: “The Jew is prohibited in this country to wear the same clothes as a Muslim and may not wear a red tarbush.
“He can be seen to bow down with his whole body to a Muslim child and permit him the traditional privilege of striking him in the face, a gesture that can prove to be of the gravest consequence.
Indeed, the present writer has received such blows. In such matters the offenders act with complete impunity, for this has been the custom from time immemorial.”
In 1291, Isaac ben Samuel, a Palestinian Jew, said: “In the eyes of the Muslims, the children of Israel are as open to abuse as an unprotected field.”
The philosopher Maimonides said: “You know, my brethren, that on account of our sins G-d has cast us into the midst of this people, the nation of Ishmael, who persecute us severely, and who devise ways to harm us and to debase us…. No nation has ever done more harm to Israel. None has matched it in debasing and humiliating us. None has been able to reduce us as they have…. We have borne their imposed degradation, their lies, and absurdities, which are beyond human power to bear.”
And today, because of this mass Muslim immigration, the Islamic anti- Semitism has increasingly rendered Europe hostile to Jews. Norway’s Jewish population is almost nonexistent, French Jews are fleeing in droves, and a Jewish school in Belgium has been forced to shut down. In Sweden, Muslims shot rockets and hurled pipe bombs at Jews and attacked Jews at a peaceful pro-Israel rally. In Germany, Muslims rioted, chanting “Jews out, Germans out, Allahu akbar, kick the Jews out, burn the Jew!” A Hezbollah courier was found guilty of playing a role in a Cyprus jihad terror plot. Hezbollah was also behind the bombing of a bus full of Jewish tourists in Bulgaria. In Italy, a Muslim was jailed for a Milan synagogue bomb plot.
There are now sweeping “no-go areas” for Jews in Europe.
Why are rabbis more comfortable condemning me than candidly discussing the ideology that drives the war on the Jews? Defense Minister Moshe Ya’alon said that any peace deal Israel might sign with the Palestinians will fail as long as Palestinian children are taught that it is a good thing to kill Jews and that Israel must be destroyed. Yet they are taught this as part of the mandate of Islam.
At Vatican II, the Catholic Church repudiated Christian anti-Semitism – why can’t we get any Muslim groups to repudiate jihad, Islamic supremism, Islamic Jew-hatred, Islamic oppression of women and non-Muslims, etc.? It is not wrong to challenge them and ask Muslims who supposedly reject “extremism” to address the Islamic teachings that give rise to that “extremism,” and to reject and reform those teachings. Genuinely peaceful Muslims should be calling for the same thing, and standing with us.
In condemning Jews who speak out against jihad and Islamic supremacism, leftist rabbis are enabling the worst enemies of the Jewish people.
The writer is the president of the American Freedom Defense Initiative (AFDI), publisher of AtlasShrugs.com and author of the new book Freedom or Submission: On the Dangers of Islamic Extremism & American Complacency.
“I know you are not left wing, which puts you at the further edges of right wing.”
Would that put me at the “further edges” with Zionist Jews? If so, glad to be there. Thank you, HaShem. It’s people like you who label people like me, who insouciantly disesteem people like me. Everything and everyone (even Orthodox Jews) is measured according to your political, journalist-guided compass.
“…or do you actually draw a distinction between those Muslims who spit on you for being in a JDL protest line and other Muslims?”
These Muslims who spit on us are the same Muslims who pretend that we’re the extremists and they’re not, even when they’re flying Hamas flags and denouncing Zionism. They are the same Muslims who protest at York U about Jewish Zionist, as though the Jews are modern day Nazis, that the Jews are wrong for demanding their Israel, that they (those Muslims) are “moderate” Muslims so every excoriation of Jews and Israel they make is politically correct. Same Quran, same mosques. Different messages for different events.
My country doesn’t owe these animals anything. You want to make nice with Muslims, go ahead.
“What is your position as to the Muslims usually that are silent or so described that Jewish and Christian groups reach out to?”
What is my position? I say, Grow some balls the way Wafa Sultan and Arianna Fallaci did.
You want to get nice with the “moderate” Muslims, go right ahead. A question you might want to ask right off the bat is What do you think of Zionism? Do you approve of this segment of Judaism? Do you accept “Zionist Jews”? See where it goes from there. Whose side are you on? You know their answer. They want to emasculate Zionism and transmogrify it as something evil, which it is surely not. At the same time they are trying to exculpate Islam proper, as though jihad and terrorism is tangential from Islam, which it is not. Need any more?
And don’t list questions for me. Who do you think you are? I need to answer your questions before you accept me into your fold? Hey, I’m not part of your party, never will be. I don’t give a shit if you ever respond to me. But don’t portray the “general” Muslim population as though they’re seeking to grow fond of Canada, because I know they’re not. A majority of Muslims hate this country, this government and real Canadians (excluding the $25 Canadians). They’re flying over to Syria and Somalia and Afghanistan to fight with their brothers in arms. Canada is on al-Qaeda’s list of enemies (you might want to ask them about that fact, see if they approve of that list).
I know who you are. You’re trying to portray the Muslim “moderates” as victims, which they’re not. They hate Jews too, only they’re secret about it. How could they not? Their Quran commands it. Get it? I will not sit at the same table as those whose religion teaches them to hate the Jews. They can kiss my ass. You want to rub shoulders with them, go right ahead.
You wrote letters. Good. But then you turn around and imposture Islam as though it is actually a salubrious faith, which it is not. “A little folly outweighs wisdom and honour.” You’ll probably discuss my views with all your Muslim buddies. I don’t care. THEIR buddies, they ones you’ll never meet (well maybe you will, but you won’t know it), actually kill people. Think about that when you’re talking to them. Ask them if they celebrate al Quds day. Lot’s of moderate Muslims there at Queens Park with their little children (some of them, who knows, probably future suicide bombers) being shown how to hate Jews out loud. These are the silent Muslims, the Muslims doing those things the law of the land permits them to do, which acts will never inculpate them as “extremists” no matter how loud they get with their anti-Semitism.
Again, show me where I said the only good Muslim is a dead Muslim.
The mighty Bill Narvey, beacon of multiculturalism and pluralism. Islam isn’t bad, it’s Arabs who are evil. Islam isn’t bad, its Pakistanis who are evil. Islam isnt’ bad, it’s Afghanis who are evil. Islam isn’t bad, it’s Sudanese who are evil. Islam isn’t bad, it’s Canadians who are evil. You get the idea.
Like I said, you don’t get it. Go have tea with your Muslim buddies. I’ll be at the “further edges” of the right with my Orthodox Jewish friends. “I am an enemy of all those who hate Zion.”
Good letters. Too bad you ruined your efforts by suggesting that Muslims will ever admit to a wrong for being zealous about Islam.
Michael, you asked where did I go? Answer: Right after writing comment #39, I took off to play tennis for 4 hours and just got back. Sent you copies of my two letters via email.
On now checking Israpundit, I find another shot by you and a quick mindless comment by Rondgrand that I don’t get it. Exactly what it is he thinks I don’t get, he doesn’t say, other then to mouth a few criticisms of the silent Muslim majority and radical Muslims. I however, have made similar statements before.
Michael, some debating tactics employed by the left are picking out of context, a sentence or 2 from a submission, mis-quote, mis-attribute words or mischaracterize views to base a counter position. Those tactics are decried by the right as deplorable, but those edging towards or who are on the more extreme right wing are blind to their own failings for they do the very same thing.
I know you are not left wing, which puts you at the further edges of right wing.
I had put to you before that your words and views in context of your comment #24 and Yamit’s #25 could be taken as reflecting your views of all Muslims and not just the more radical variety. You took great umbrage at that, yet your comment #34, seems to say pretty much the same thing that it is all Muslims who either mouth those obscenities at you and JDL protesters or they support the views expressed by those obscenities.
Is that in fact what you are saying or do you actually draw a distinction between those Muslims who spit on you for being in a JDL protest line and other Muslims?
I know where you stand in respect of Islamists and those Muslim organizations, student or otherwise that focus on anti-Israel rhetoric and propaganda which usually amounts to antisemtism masquerading as anti-Israelism.
What is your position as to the Muslims usually that are silent or so described that Jewish and Christian groups reach out to?
As to you, Rongrand and Yamit disagreeing with what I wrote, I am not going to chase all of you around the block to figure out what disagreement you have with what I said.
I don’t mind in the least being challenged by cogent well reasoned arguments. Saying however, that “I don’t get it” or that you disagree with a few select some words I expressed is not an argument of that calibre, let alone an argument at all.
So Michael, spare the sarcasm as that too is no reasoned argument. Rather than telling me what’s going on in Toronto, as if I don’t know and that “I don’t get it”, answer my questions precisely and in a cogent fashion as I requested, as to:
1. How you see all Muslims and not just those openly hostile to non-Muslims;
2. As to suggesting “I don’t get it”, what exactly is “it” and lastly
3. Of my views expressed in comments #’d 21 and 24, what exactly do you disagree with and why?
If you provide me with cogent reasoned answers to my questions, I will be pleased to respond in kind.
@ rongrand:
Thats what I mean, how quickly they give over their traditions to the threat of Muslim violence.
@ honeybee:
My reference to GB is with respects to the problems they face with the Muslim population.
@ rongrand:
Nope, I thunk the British brave,gave up on the Swedes, never thought much of the French.
@ honeybee:
Your kidding me of course.
Yes
@ rongrand:
I can not understand what the British fear?
Unfortunately Bill doesn’t get it.
Where is the outcry from the Muslim community decrying the acts of the Muslim terrorist. The silence is deafening.
The Muslims want us to adopt the sharia law or else.
Bottom line the Muslims have done nothing to warrant our trust.
All you have to do is take a hard look at Great Britain.
Ask the Israelis.
Bill Narvey Said:
Typical liberal responce. Like forming discussion groups .
Ted Belman Said:
Please release my reply to Michael Devolin. Thx.
Michael,putting psychological distance between us by calling me Mr. Narvey may give you sense of comfort, but I am still here in your face.
No Michael, your self praise that you get what I wrote, is unwarranted. You simply don’t get it. You are one very angry dude. That anger has clouded your mind and judgment. If that amounts to insinuating you are obtuse, so be it. Such insinuation however, relates only to your reaction to what I wrote. I presume however, that you are as astute as you proudly claim to be in all other aspects.
An example of your failure at comprehending my views – you say of my comment: “you want to tell them like it is, but then we should tip-toe around like chambermaids while we do it.”
Tip toe around? I said the exact opposite.
The only caveat to that was my surmise that if that could happen, Jews and indeed Christians and Westerners would thereafter reach out to the Muslim community and force them to confront, discuss and deal with these issues, but in so doing, would likely do so by casting those facts and truths in a less harsh light than Geller, but still a light that made these concerns clear and unequivocal.
You have zeroed in on and provided a laundry list of concerns with radical Muslim views, words and deeds. I said nothing to disagree with the concerns you raised.
My comment, while recognizing the gravity of those challenges, spoke to how Jews and indeed Christians/Westerners for that matter should choose to go forward in not only admitting the gravity of those challenges, but forcing the Muslim communities they reach out to, to themselves admit, confront, discuss and deal with these challenges. That would include efforts to get these Muslims to stand shoulder to shoulder with non-Muslims in speaking out and taking actions against Islamists.
Tell me Michael, because of concerns you raised of which there are of course many other instances and aspects, are you advocating that all non-Muslim Westerners cease interfaith outreach to the Muslim communities, that Westerners simply rail against all Muslims, that so called Muslims like Salim Mansur, Raheel Raza, Tarek Fatah, Zudi Jasser and their organizations along with a new organization Progressive Muslims Institute Canada be ignored or not supported?
Michael, to sum up, you have written what you are outraged and against when it comes to radical Muslims, presumably the silence of most Muslims to Islamism and that seemingly some so called moderate Muslims when they do speak up, appear to side with the Islamists.
What however, are you for?
Thank you, rongrand.
Ted, are you going to post my last message to Bill Narvey?
@rongrand:
Or as my dad would say, “I’ll put my boot so far up your ass you’ll choke on it.”
@ rongrand:
Better still, be sure the door does hit your ass on the way out.
@ M Devolin:
Damn, I like that.
Your right on. Time to stop catering to the Muslims.
If they don’t like it, there’s the door, it works both ways. Be sure it doesn’t hit you in the ass when you leave.
Where’d you go, Mr. Narvey?
One other thing: you want to talk with me, meet me in downtown Toronto any time the JDL Canada is counter protesting against Canada’s future university-educated Muslims who, despite this expensive education, shout obscenities at my Jewish friends (from a safe distance, of course), some of them Holocaust survivors. They even drive around and around the block so to pass by us in vehicles while shouting these same obscenities. Would these refined and cultured Muslims be those you want the rest of Canada to be more sensitive towards? You really need to see this, Mr. Narvey, to be there, because YOUR comprehension of what is actually happening between non-Muslim and Muslim in Canada is not veridical. They don’t care about this country one bit. They hate us but love our money. That’s it. The majority of Khadr’s Muslim supporters are on Welfare and live in Ontario Housing, courtesy of Canadian tax-payers. So again, what attitude adjustment should people like me, REAL Canadians, be making? I wrote a letter to Canada’s B’nai Brith after Frank Dimant made an unctuous statement in the National Post that big ole B’nai Brith “demanded” of the Montreal Police that they find out whether or not the motive behind the firebombings of Jewish restaurants was anti-Semitic. I’ve never met the man. Never seen him in front of the Israeli Consulate in Toronto supporting Israel’s Jews. But here is the big, bad B’nai Brith given space in the National Post telling Canada’s Jews that they are watching out for them. What a joke. It just pisses me off when I hear someone wax eloquent about a fight he is not involved in. In boxing there is a saying, “Everybody was a golden glove fighter.” It’s a mockery of guys who pretend they were better than they actually were. “The older I get, the better I was” is my description of my boxing history. But the point needs to be made for the sake of fakes like B’nai Brith: they do not do the dirty work, the fists and the elbows. JDL does that. Guy who leave work early to be there on the street for the sake of the Jewish people and the State of Israel. WE know there is no need of an attitude adjustment on our part. The only people who say things like that are legends in their own minds…
Bill Narvey Said:
I was taught at a “reformed temple” to ” to make my self and example” to anti-semites. I quite Sat School.
@ yamit82:
Yamit 82, I always wondered why Jews needed a a reformation. Any answers?
I get it, Mr. Narvey. I noticed all the good things you said, like “We must fearlessly tell Muslims in the West that it is for them to adapt to and adopt our ways and beliefs and not for us to adapt to and accommodate theirs.” Got that part. The part that really pissed me off is where you write, “…however Muslims will not change unless efforts are begun to create reasons and momentum for change.” Now THAT pissed me off. What more do they want, Mr. Narvey? They taken over the HRC here in Canada, no actually were a driving force in creating it. They’ve taken up prayer in our schools, bully our university students (especially Jewish students), they’ve recently threatened a Toronto Rabbi about his job as chaplain (didn’t hear your voice there, Mr. Narvey, or read letters you sent) if he hosted Pamela Geller. The list goes on. Please tell me what else we can do for these poor down-trodden, persecuted Muslims, Mr. Narvey. But don’t insinuate that I’m obtuse because I don’t applaud the verbose pile of BS you’ve written above. You say you want to tell them like it is, but then we should tip-toe around like chambermaids while we do it. If I’ve missed something here, I would blame it on your lack of articulation (I bet you know where I’m standing on the issue). Hit a nerve? You’re f***ing right you hit a nerve: I happen to love my country and I see it going down the drain because of the spineless bastards in government bowing down to Muslim zealots. Khadr is now in Canada, poor little innocent boy-soldier. We’ve been sued by Maher Arar because the Syrians beat him (Why did he not sue Syria?). They’ve made millions off Canadians tax payers by playing the victim card, and now you suggest that we change our attitude?? What attitude would that be? We should ask them to wear condoms now while we’re being exploited by their activists? Most of all I’m offended that they can get away with being overtly anti-Jewish and anti-Zionist without any fear of the Human Rights Commission they help create coming after them. Do you mind Hamas flags flying in Toronto’s downtown core? I know I certainly do. Now because of Islam’s aggressive strides into our insanely accommodating system, Sikhs now are being forced to remove their head bands during soccer games. Sikhs have always been loyal Canadians, good soldiers too. This is not the fault of Pauline Marois (who’s been resisting their religious aggression into French-Canadian culture), this is the fault of Muslim religious practices being interposed into the Quebec school system. And we thought the French-Canadians were tough on us! Hey, I freakin’ love French-Canada, didn’t realize how much until the cultural jihadists began trying to erase it from existence. Now synagogues are being firebombed in Montreal. Got any idea who’s doing this, Mr. Narvey? Perhaps it’s because those pesky French-Canadian Jews are not being accommodative enough to their Muslim neighbors. It’s probably their attitudes that the Muslims cannot tolerate. Tell me, Mr. Narvey, how I can better serve our Muslim citizens. I’d really like to hear. Let me know how I can change my attitude to something more exploitable.
Michael/Xlucid – looks to me like I hit a nerve. Back it up and read all of what I said in context. Maybe you just might get it. Then again, being all fired up and all, maybe not!
“These Muslims describe themselves as reformers of Islam. They believe that if one looks beneath all the hateful and intolerant Islamic principles, edicts and injunctions targeting Jews and other non-Muslims, one finds doctrinal Islam expresses the very same universal values as are found in Judiasm and Christianity.”
Not the same universal values as found in Judaism, Mr. Narvey. Islam does not permit deconstruction on any level. You either accept the entire Mohammed package or you’re an apostate. You may survive in the West as an apostate, but you won’t survive nor be accepted in the Muslim world as a REAL Muslim. Ask Tarek Fatah.
“As noted, such change in the way we relate to our fellow Muslim citizens and how they relate to us will doubtless not only take a major attitude adjustment on the part of both, but it will likely take time to effect those changes.’
Oh, yes, I shouldn’t mind that they wave Hamas flags on downtown Toronto streets or wave signs condemning Zionism and all Israeli Jews. Let’s bend over a little further, eh.
You either fly our flag or get out of the parade. You don’t like my country, get the f*** out and take your family with you.
@ Mr. Narvey:
Mr. Narvey is strongly recommended to try to tell Muslims that it is for them to adapt to the civilization.
Just for his information, some did already. They were called Theo van Gogh and Pym Fortuyn, among others. They were assassinated.
Some continue to do it. They are called Geert Wilders, Bat Ye’or, Anne-Marie Delcambre, among others.
Geert Wilders is under constant security protection because of the frequent threats to his life.
Bat Ye’or has to face suits filed against her. Anne-Marie Delcambre is boycotted.
No one of the foregoing persons pointed their finger on Muslims as persons, but towards Islam itself.
I recommend Mr. Narvey to be kept posted before trying to defend the undefendable.
“…your shared bigoted view that the only good Muslim is a dead Muslim.”
Please point out to me where I suggested that “the only good Muslim is a dead Muslim,” Mr. Narvey. Nowhere did I suggest this. If anyone lacks comprehension, I would say it’s you, especially based on your latest contribution to this blog. Don’t throw names at me unless you can back it up. Perhaps you made this accusation so your “moderate” Muslim friends can read how zealously you’re defending their wonderful and salubrious religion. Justin Trudeau would be so proud of you. You are shaming our country with your imprudence and your naivety. “Fools live in earnest.” How’s that fight against the Muslims in California working out for you? Don’t ever email me again. Seek help from all those Muslims who are fighting anti-Jewish hatred. As they say up here, “See you on the ice.”
Yamit/Michael is it that you both lack english comprehension or just comprehension? I do not in the least minimize the existential challenge to our person and culture that we Jews, Christians and all Westerners face from Islamists of all stripes be they outside or within the West.
Even Geller would however, reject your shared bigoted view that the only good Muslim is a dead Muslim.
@ Bill Narvey:
@ Bill Narvey:
You should let Devolin know that you are also a Canadian and an old lawyer, so he can adjust his disgust at your ignorance to a more Canadian framework. One should know ones enemies.
Islam is not a religion it is a culture, a way of life that will absorb some of the cultural nuances of each country they control (majority) or be influenced culturally even as minority but they will never cease in sedition and subversion of non majority Muslim nations. Islam like Christianity are supremacist and both aspire to global domination. The major difference between Islam and christianity is the aspect of political and cultural absorption and assimilation not into but bringing all others into their culture. They cannot accommodate to non Muslim cultures and remain Muslim any more than Jews can. (Example: NarverY 🙂 )
The Jews have no skin in this conflict between Muslims and Christians. Both of their foundational beliefs are Jew negative as both believe that their creeds and theology replaces and supersedes Judaism.
The Muslims will win because Christians and the Jews are stupid and Muslims less so:
I bet Abe Foxman is jealous how far America accommodates itself to Muslim sensitivities and Sharia law. Jews could never do that much. The Jewish way is to not make waves and become like them….Bye Bye!!!
We’ve given enough to these animals, Bill. It’s their turn. The ball is in their court. It’s too bad it’s attitudes like yours that permeate our Western governments. You sound like you’re off your chunk. F*** them. They get nothing more from me or my country. I don’t know what you are, but I’m a Canadian and I’ll be goddamned if I bend over any further for these terrorist-spawning religious whack-jobs. You are no longer on my side of the fence. I do not trust you. You want to stop the anti-Jewish hatred in California, and now you come out with this crap, as though we should bend over even further for these blood-thirsty, hateful animals. You’re not making sense. You want to kiss their ass, go right ahead. Don’t count on me to join you. Not gonna happen. Ever. You’re just another brain-dead pluralist. It’s our fault these poor religious Muslims are misunderstood and silent? You’ve gone over to the dark side. You sound just like Justin Trudeau. You’re f***ed in the head.
Michael, You are being pessimistic and fatalistic in your views that since doctrinal Islam cannot be changed, Muslims cannot change. I don’t discount the difficulties in making that happen, however Muslims will not change unless efforts are begun to create reasons and momentum for change. There is no time like the present, not just for the Jews to start the process but for all of Western society to join in.
To set the wheels in motion however, will require not just a major attitude adjustement by Muslims, but by Westerners.
Doctrinal Islam has a great many injunctions to the faithful to hate, be intolerant of, to believe they are superior to, to make terror and war against, to subjugate,convert or murder Jews by all means. Christians do not escape such Islamic edicts, coming in a still significantly and existentially threatened 2nd and other non-Muslims too have not escaped the attention of Islamic teachings.
The Jihadist terrorists and their supporters to this day liberally literally quote these Islamic teachings as justification for their evil against Jews, Christians, other non-Muslims and the West generally of which the U.S. is the most powerful symbol. For them, they want Islam, along with Shariah to be believed in and practiced today as it was 1400 years ago, save I expect they would be prepared to keep those aspects of modernity that advantages them in their Islamic aspirations and cause, such as cell phones, computers, modern war making munitions, medicine and the like.
At the other end of the spectrum are a relative handful of Muslims who,having incorporated modern Western norms and values into their lives and religious beliefs and practices are fully integrated in modern Western society. They see the literal Islamic doctrinal teachings, injunctions and edicts, including Sharia as having perhaps served Muslims well a very great many centuries ago, but which have no place in the modern world.
These Muslims describe themselves as reformers of Islam. They believe that if one looks beneath all the hateful and intolerant Islamic principles, edicts and injunctions targeting Jews and other non-Muslims, one finds doctrinal Islam expresses the very same universal values as are found in Judiasm and Christianity.
While they consider themselves reformers, the Jihadists see them as apostates and traitors to Islam for having adopted Western norms, values and perceptions.
Estimates of the number of Jihadists range from 10 – 15% of the world’s 1.6 billion people or between 160 – 240 million people. Outspoken Muslim reformers likely are less than 100 or so.
That leaves us to ponder where the vast majority of usually silent Muslims numbering well over a billion people are on the Islamic sprectrum spanning Muslim reformers to Jihadists.
Of that vast majority, the largest part thereof live in Muslim nations where they are indoctrinated daily by their political, religious, educational, media and social leaders with a diet of hatred of Israel, Jews, Christians and other non-Muslims, who are usually also the object of blame for the failings of tyrannical and dictatorial Muslim leaders. It is fair to assume, irrespective of whether most of these Muslims in Muslim nations are relgious or not, that they have succombed to adopting the hate filled intolerant views of non-Muslims that their leaders have brainwashed them to believe. In that Jews have been ethnically cleansed from most Muslims nations, with a relative few only remaining, these indoctrinated hate filled intolerant Muslims have not taken to targeting Christians for lethal persecution.
One doesn’t have to be a Muslim in a Muslim nation to be so susceptible to being brainwashed. We Westerners, with all our sophistication and independent minds, would likely be equally susceptible if exposed to such daily brainwashing to belive in a certain set of ideas or to hate a certain group of people.
In the West, the vast majority of outspoken Muslims we hear from are those who have carried their hatreds and intolerance of non-Muslims from their Muslim nations of birth and nurturing or hold such hate and intolerant views by reason of what they have been exposed to in their homes, their mosques, their peer groups, acquaintances and contacts.
The large majority of Muslims living in the West however, either as immigrants, 2nd or 3rd generation Muslims, are silent.
While their silence is often explained as being the result of their own fear of adverse consequence from Jihadists in their midst, should they speak out against Jihadism, the fact is that their silence is only evidence of silence and not the reason for that silence. Presumably the silent majority of Western Muslims keep their silence for any number of reasons such as fear of retribution, being in sympathy with Jihadists, but not wanting to call attention to themselves, complacency, apathy, not caring about Jihadism so long as it doesn’t affect them personally and the like.
As noted, Westerners must undergo a major attitude adjustment, not the least of which is to stiffen our spines and resolve to speak facts and truths regarding Jihadism including that it is pure evil by our Western democratic values, norms and morals. We must do so without fear or apology of offending the sensibilities of the large majority of silent Western Muslims. We must fearlessly tell Muslims in the West that it is for them to adapt to and adopt our ways and beliefs and not for us to adapt to and accommodate theirs.
As noted, such change in the way we relate to our fellow Muslim citizens and how they relate to us will doubtless not only take a major attitude adjustment on the part of both, but it will likely take time to effect those changes.
There is no time like the present for all non-Muslim Westerners to set ourselves on this course that must be taken in spite of all the foreseeable trials and tribulations that course will entail.
To take the view however, that it is futile for us to undergo a major attitude adjustment because we will not be able to effect a major attitude adjustment amongst our fellow Muslim citizens, is to admit not only defeat but keep us on a course where tensions will continue to increase to the point that there will not just be a clash of civilizations, but an explosive war right on our ordinarily peaceful streets.
We already can see that is the course many of the EU nations are already on and much further along on that course than we in North America are. We must take heed.
“They can be expected of course to avoid casting these truths in as harsh a light as Geller does, but the critical point is that they clearly and unequivocally express those truths.”
I remember eating in a pizzeria in Edmonton. It was a new building. The walls inside were barn boards varnished over. I’m seated beside the wall, and farm boy that I am, I noticed that the cow shit was still stuck to the boards when they were varnished over. This is what it is like trying to tell harsh truth while simultaneously covering up the harshness. An ugly truth will always be an ugly truth. I remember Louis Simpson’s poem ‘OK for Keats’ where he mocks Keats line “truth is beauty.” Simpson was in the 101st Airborne when they liberated extermination camps during the Holocaust. Simpson wrote of the horrors he witnessed there, “That is truth, where is the beauty?”
‘win those Muslim’s respect and induce them to have far greater sensitivity to Jewish sensibilities.”
You can’t get blood out of a stone, Bill. Islam teaches and commands a religious insensitivity to “Jewish sensibilities.” Even those “moderate” Muslim the entire non-Muslim world is waiting to hear from cannot exorcize this prominent anti-Jewish Isalmic essence from their personal life. Otherwise they would be denying their identity as practicing Muslims. Every Muslim who befriends a Jew is play-acting because he knows in the back of his [f***ed up] mind that his religion forbids such friendships. And you know, Bill, that Islam must be practiced as it is written, so any measure of reform, such as “interfaith dialogue” and friendships with Jews, is forbidden. Perhaps you forget: Muslims from the Middle East dictate the rules Muslim of the West must live by. I would have thought otherwise many years ago, but when I see Muslim university students (“educated” and “assimilated” into Western society) screaming obscenities at Jewish Holocaust survivors and waving anti-Zionist banners (must Jews give up their Zionism to please and “induce” Muslims to “far greater sensitivities”? F**k them and the blood soaked camels they rode in on), I gave all hope of ever placating such animals. And then there’s the matter of the Quran and its implacable and malefic directives against the Jewish people. Nice thought, though, Bill.
You might say that Geller shines a harsh light on Jihadist Muslims, their support network, their Muslim cheerleaders and Muslims who while not openly supportive of Islamism, sympathize with it, thrill at hearing radical Islamic messaging and who influence their children to think just like them thus raising and creating potential future Islamists and Jihadist foot soldiers.
Western radically inclined Muslims of course react in anger and hate towards Geller, just as they do against any critic of their words and deeds who does not use as harsh a light as Geller.
Many non-Islamist Muslims for reasons, perhaps having less to do with the truths Geller speaks, than with the harsh light she casts on radical Muslims which they feel shines unfairly on them, also react negatively and join the voices of the radicals to damn her as a racist or Islamophobe.
Geller is right about many liberal left Jewish leaders joining voices with Western anti-Geller Muslim voices. Some evidence and common sense supports her views that these liberal-left Jewish leaders speak out against her because they have agendas that make interfaith outreach to Muslims a priority and they believe that to join the very Muslims they are reaching out to in condemning Geller, might better serve their interfaith outreach efforts.
A NYT op-ed last year by the current head of the URJ, Rabbi Rick Jacobs as regards Geller’s New York Metro Transit ad placed in subways exemplifies this liberal left anti-Geller attitude. See: The Sin of Sowing Hatred of Islam http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/25/opinion/the-sin-of-sowing-hatred-of-islam.html Jacobs perpetuates the outright lie that Geller is fomenting hatred against all Muslims.
Another article in 2011 by former URJ head, Rabbi Eric Yoffie, amounts to a tacit admission that his interfaith efforts with Muslims were not working out as he had hoped and believed.
Reading between the lines of that article Yoffie is admitting that the interfaith Muslim friendships he believed he had cultivated through his Muslim interfaith outreach and their promises to stand with him against all forms of racism, including antisemtism, were not worth what he thought they were. See: An Appeal to My Muslim Friends http://forward.com/articles/135623/an-appeal-to-my-muslim-friends/#The evidence appears to show that in spite of liberal left Jewish leadership continuing to publically villify Geller and other anti-Jihadist spokesperson like her, their interfaith outreach efforts to Muslims have not been nearly as successful as they hoped.
One obvious reason is that the vast majority of Muslim advocates, both Western and non-Western are pro-Palestinian, anti-Israel and very often expressions of anti-Israelism are nothing less than raw antisemitism.
For the most part in the Muslim world, Jews are equated with Israel and thus Muslim anti-Israel sentiments extend to Jews. For some or even a great many Western Muslims, those anti-Jewish sentiments do not necessarily rise to the level of definable and proven antisemitism, but are rather felt in some lesser fashion such as suspicion, mistrust or a sense of unease with Jews.
In spite of the evidence that damning Geller is not significantly, if at all helping their interfaith outreach to Muslims, liberal-left Jewish leadership stays their course of disingenuously and mendaciously publically villifying Geller.
That failure to recognize their assumptions as to how to better ingratiate themselves towards the Muslim community they are trying to reach out to by publically damning Geller, are questionable if not altogether wrong, has not swayed liberal-left Jewish leadership from their chosen Muslim outreeach course.
That in itself strongly suggests that these liberal-left Jews are driven more by liberal-left theoretical leftist ideology, modern multicultural values and political correctness in shaping and determining their interfaith agendas then by facts, circumstances and realities that present impediments to be accommodated and adjusted for.
Liberal left Jewish leadership would do themselves and the Jewish community at large a service if they ceased denouncing Geller and other advocates against Islamic radicalism and instead joined in to speak truths, now obviously seen as truths inconvenient to the Muslims they are reaching out to and thus hindrances to their outreach agendas. Not only do they need to face truths about and speak out against radical Islam, but the Muslim community itself must be encouraged to be equally outspoken in that regard.
As for interfaith outreach to Muslims, Jewish liberal-left leadership, must adjust their strategies and tactics that will not seek to appease the Muslims they reach out to, but win those Muslim’s respect and induce them to have far greater sensitivity to Jewish sensibilities.
None of the foregoing criticisms of liberal left Jewish leadership’s disingenuous and mendacious villification of Geller and their interfaith strategies and tactics, is to be taken as suggesting that Jewish interfaith outreach to the Muslim communities is not important or necessary.
Those interfaith efforts most definitely are important and necessary.
To conclude, all Jewish leaders, be they on the left or right, will need to accommodate and adjust their interfaith outreach to Muslim strategies and tactics to better accord with facts, circumstances and realities to improve the chances of success that they hope for.
One such welcome change would be for these Jewish leaders to stop publically disingenuously, maliciously and mendaciously villifying Geller and instead speak the truths that Geller speaks. They can be expected of course to avoid casting these truths in as harsh a light as Geller does, but the critical point is that they clearly and unequivocally express those truths.
“No I don’t read others mail that’s the purview of the NSA and FBI. LOL”
True. Listening to the rest of the link you fwd tonight, Yamit. On a split shift today and could only manage about half. Shabat shalom.
M Devolin Said:
No I don’t read others mail that’s the purview of the NSA and FBI. LOL
@ Laura:
Well wouldn’t we be in trouble if Pamela was the sole lone sane voice standing up to the Islamofacsits (thank G-d she’s not)?
How would you think “Pam is crazy” when I intimate that she is not only the “sane” voice, but the “only” sane voice.
Most of the anti-Semitism that I have experienced here in Canada has been from Catholics and Christians – bear in mind that there are 48,000 denominations of christianity. Add radical Islam to the list and it is NO different than anywhere else.
@ Yidvocate:
We’re in serious trouble if the only sane voice in the crowd is Pamela’s!
The worst enemies of Jews are Jews. Here I disagree with P.G.
Islamism and other garden variety of religious extremism (fundamentalism) are integral part of Islam. Similar groups exist in other religions but represent miniscule minorities. Some estimate that 15% of Muslims are openly extremists. This means at least (1.2Bil) 200Mil individuals. The world wants desperately to ignore this FACT.
For these progressive Jews, rabbis and other, the road to perdition is full of good intention. They must be idolizing the ostrich.
My comment reply to Ted Belman is in moderation.
“You attack Mosques by attacking the source,… Islam, and those who promote Islam like the Rich Oil States but with simple incontrovertible facts and data to back you up.”
Agreed. As my Grandpa would say, Yamit: “You’ve been reading my mail.”
Shabat shalom, everyone.
M Devolin Said:
“The problem with Geller’s stance is that if she condemns Islam outright, she will be given no voice at all.”
I disagree. The material condemning Islam is easily available and it’s in the presentation as much as anything.
Examples:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHpMhAzj-Tk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgGYQ_PEcZs
Tailor the message for the audience you are attempting to reach including the tone. Attacking Mosques however correct; rubs plauarlistic Americans the wrong way and the ADL afraid that if you attack Mosques the next victim will be the Jews, so they defend Mosques.
You attack Mosques by attacking the source,… Islam, and those who promote Islam like the Rich Oil States but with simple incontrovertible facts and data to back you up. Like since the death of Mohamed there have been murdered over 500 million people in Islamic conquests. Since 1948 Muslims have murdered over 11 million other Muslims. Since the 70’s ..90% of all world wide terror including both Trade Center attacks, Boston bombing, Ft Hood etc have been Islamic attacks.
Name and show graphically points of terror all over the world for the years 2012-13. Show World terror incident map 2012-2013
You cannot defeat an enemy you are afraid to identify.
@ Ted Belman:
Religion of Peace?
When the Jews of Arabia, except in insignificant numbers, still rejected Islam, Mohammed felt humiliated and took personal affront; and, when he had built a powerful army, he went to war against them. He first slaughtered the Jews of Medina (then known as Yathrib), to which city he had fled after his expulsion from Mecca by the pagan Quraysh tribe. After returning to, and conquering Mecca, he also destroyed the Jewish community there. The last refuge of the Jews was at Kuraitah, a town near Medina. For 14 days the Jews held out against Mohammed and his army. When the Jews were finally defeated, Mohammed personally gave the order to massacre them. He then watched as 600 of the assembled Jewish elders were decapitated in the marketplace of Medina. Thereafter, he declared those portions of Arabia under his control to be Judenrein (cleansed of Jews), and he forbade Jews from ever reestablishing residence there. So it has remained until this Day.
The Hadith (Islam’s oral tradition which has preserved the extra-Koranic teachings of Mohammed as extrapolated from his words and deeds, as narrated by venerated sources), spews forth a cascade of calumnies and incitements against the Jewish people, the most infamous of which is:
There is also the well-entrenched Islamic belief that, also during the time of God’s Judgment upon Humankind, Dajjal (the Anti-Christ) will begin to dominate the Earth together with his army of 70,000 Yahud (Jews) until Isa (Jesus) is resurrected and thereafter destroys Dajjal as well as his Jewish minions.
It is not about radical terrorists it’s all about Islam, with all due respect to Geller. If you can’t or won’t speak the truth, the whole truth out of fear of being called a racist or worse and or alienating those who will not accept the message then the problem isn’t the terrorists, it’s the society that refuses to see Islam for what it is and will not allow the truth to be told.
Curious how American Jews, Jewish leaders, Rabbis,Jewish Academics and ADL are still spouting the tripe of “Islam a religion of Peace” and even supporting Ecumenicism with Muslims and that goes double for Israeli Jews?
“Even so called Moderate Muslims support and subsidize Terror and subversion…”
Every Muslim terrorist was beforehand a “moderate” Muslim. “A crooked tree casts a crooked shadow.” Terrorism is not tangential from Islam nor is it remarkable or phenomenon.
“It is Islam that makes the terrorist and not the other way around, as some fools believe.” -Wafa Sultan
“What ever works is the rule in Islam…”
Exactly. And whatever will exculpate Islam the religion is seized upon by the apologists and pluralists. The problem with Geller’s stance is that if she condemns Islam outright, she will be given no voice at all. We are all in this situation, thanks to the rote-learned, academia trained journalists. The media is imprudently and naively charting the course for the Western world, regardless the social consequences, so long as Islam the religion is given equal standing with Christianity and Judaism. “A fool is known by a multitude of words.”
You might say that Geller shines a harsh light on Jihadist Muslims, their support network, their Muslim cheerleaders and Muslims who while not openly supportive of Islamism, sympathize with it, thrill at hearing radical Islamic messaging and who influence their children to think just like them thus raising and creating potential future Islamists and Jihadist foot soldiers.
Western radically inclined Muslims of course react in anger and hate towards Geller, just as they do against any critic of their words and deeds who does not use as harsh a light as Geller.
Many non-Islamist Muslims for reasons, perhaps having less to do with the truths Geller speaks, than with the harsh light she casts on radical Muslims which they feel shines unfairly on them, also react negatively and join the voices of the radicals to damn her as a racist or Islamophobe.
Geller is right about many liberal left Jewish leaders joining voices with Western anti-Geller Muslim voices. Some evidence and common sense supports her views that these liberal-left Jewish leaders speak out against her because they have agendas that make interfaith outreach to Muslims a priority and they believe that to join the very Muslims they are reaching out to in condemning Geller, might better serve their interfaith outreach efforts.
A NYT op-ed last year by the current head of the URJ, Rabbi Rick Jacobs as regards Geller’s New York Metro Transit ad placed in subways exemplifies this liberal left anti-Geller attitude. See: The Sin of Sowing Hatred of Islam http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/25/opinion/the-sin-of-sowing-hatred-of-islam.html?_r=0 Jacobs perpetuates the outright lie that Geller is fomenting hatred against all Muslims.
Another article in 2011 by former URJ head, Rabbi Eric Yoffie, amounts to a tacit admission that his interfaith efforts with Muslims were not working out as he had hoped and believed.
Reading between the lines of that article Yoffie is admitting that the interfaith Muslim friendships he believed he had cultivated through his Muslim interfaith outreach and their promises to stand with him against all forms of racism, including antisemtism, were not worth what he thought they were. See: An Appeal to My Muslim Friends http://forward.com/articles/135623/an-appeal-to-my-muslim-friends/#
The evidence appears to show that in spite of liberal left Jewish leadership continuing to publically villify Geller and other anti-Jihadist spokesperson like her, their interfaith outreach efforts to Muslims have not been nearly as successful as they hoped.
One obvious reason is that the vast majority of Muslim advocates, both Western and non-Western are pro-Palestinian, anti-Israel and very often expressions of anti-Israelism are nothing less than raw antisemitism.
For the most part in the Muslim world, Jews are equated with Israel and thus Muslim anti-Israel sentiments extend to Jews. For some or even a great many Western Muslims, those anti-Jewish sentiments do not necessarily rise to the level of definable and proven antisemitism, but are rather felt in some lesser fashion such as suspicion, mistrust or a sense of unease with Jews.
In spite of the evidence that damning Geller is not significantly, if at all helping their interfaith outreach to Muslims, liberal-left Jewish leadership stays their course of disingenuously and mendaciously publically villifying Geller.
That failure to recognize their assumptions as to how to better ingratiate themselves towards the Muslim community they are trying to reach out to by publically damning Geller, are questionable if not altogether wrong, has not swayed liberal-left Jewish leadership from their chosen Muslim outreeach course.
That in itself strongly suggests that these liberal-left Jews are driven more by liberal-left theoretical leftist ideology, modern multicultural values and political correctness in shaping and determining their interfaith agendas then by facts, circumstances and realities that present impediments to be accommodated and adjusted for.
There is something of a parallel to be found between liberal left Jewish leadership’s stay the course interfaith outreach strategies and tactics to Muslims and Pres. Obama’s reaction to facts, cirucumstances and realities that scream his leftist socialist agenda is not working. Instead of adjusting his policies to reflect those realities, he appears to double down on his failed policies.
None of the foregoing criticisms of liberal left Jewish leadership’s disingenuous and mendacious villification of Geller and their interfaith strategies and tactics, is to be taken as suggesting that Jewish interfaith outreach to the Muslim communities is not important or necessary.
Those interfaith efforts most definitely are important and necessary.
All Jewish leaders, be they on the left or right, will need to accommodate and adjust their interfaith outreach to Muslim strategies and tactics to better accord with facts, circumstances and realities to improve the chances of success that they hope for.
One such welcome change would be for these Jewish leaders to stop publically disingenuously, maliciously and mendaciously villifying Geller and instead speak the truths that Geller speaks, even if they do not cast those truths in as harsh a light as Geller does.
You might say that Geller shines a harsh light on Jihadist Muslims, their support network, their Muslim cheerleaders and Muslims who while not openly supportive of Islamism, sympathize with it, thrill at hearing radical Islamic messaging and who influence their children to think just like them thus raising and creating potential future Islamists and Jihadist foot soldiers.
Western radically inclined Muslims of course react in anger and hate towards Geller, just as they do against any critic of their words and deeds who does not use as harsh a light as Geller.
Many non-Islamist Muslims for reasons, perhaps having less to do with the truths Geller speaks, than with the harsh light she casts on radical Muslims which they feel shines unfairly on them, also react negatively and join the voices of the radicals to damn her as a racist or Islamophobe.
Geller is right about many liberal left Jewish leaders joining voices with Western anti-Geller Muslim voices. Some evidence and common sense supports her views that these liberal-left Jewish leaders speak out against her because they have agendas that make interfaith outreach to Muslims a priority and they believe that to join the very Muslims they are reaching out to in condemning Geller, might better serve their interfaith outreach efforts.
A NYT op-ed last year by the current head of the URJ, Rabbi Rick Jacobs as regards Geller’s New York Metro Transit ad placed in subways exemplifies this liberal left anti-Geller attitude. See: The Sin of Sowing Hatred of Islam http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/25/opinion/the-sin-of-sowing-hatred-of-islam.html?_r=0 Jacobs perpetuates the outright lie that Geller is fomenting hatred against all Muslims.
Another article in 2011 by former URJ head, Rabbi Eric Yoffie, amounts to a tacit admission that his interfaith efforts with Muslims were not working out as he had hoped and believed.
Reading between the lines of that article Yoffie is admitting that the interfaith Muslim friendships he believed he had cultivated through his Muslim interfaith outreach and their promises to stand with him against all forms of racism, including antisemtism, were not worth what he thought they were. See: An Appeal to My Muslim Friends http://forward.com/articles/135623/an-appeal-to-my-muslim-friends/#
The evidence appears to show that in spite of liberal left Jewish leadership continuing to publically villify Geller and other anti-Jihadist spokesperson like her, their interfaith outreach efforts to Muslims have not been nearly as successful as they hoped.
One obvious reason is that the vast majority of Muslim advocates, both Western and non-Western are pro-Palestinian, anti-Israel and very often expressions of anti-Israelism are nothing less than raw antisemitism.
For the most part in the Muslim world, Jews are equated with Israel and thus Muslim anti-Israel sentiments extend to Jews. For some or even a great many Western Muslims, those anti-Jewish sentiments do not necessarily rise to the level of definable and proven antisemitism, but are rather felt in some lesser fashion such as suspicion, mistrust or a sense of unease with Jews.
In spite of the evidence that damning Geller is not significantly, if at all helping their interfaith outreach to Muslims, liberal-left Jewish leadership stays their course of disingenuously and mendaciously publically villifying Geller.
That failure to recognize their assumptions as to how to better ingratiate themselves towards the Muslim community they are trying to reach out to by publically damning Geller, are questionable if not altogether wrong, has not swayed liberal-left Jewish leadership from their chosen Muslim outreeach course.
That in itself strongly suggests that these liberal-left Jews are driven more by liberal-left theoretical leftist ideology, modern multicultural values and political correctness in shaping and determining their interfaith agendas then by facts, circumstances and realities that present impediments to be accommodated and adjusted for.
There is something of a parallel to be found between liberal left Jewish leadership’s stay the course interfaith outreach strategies and tactics to Muslims and Pres. Obama’s reaction to facts, cirucumstances and realities that scream his leftist socialist agenda is not working. Instead of adjusting his policies to reflect those realities, he appears to double down on his failed policies.
None of the foregoing criticisms of liberal left Jewish leadership’s disingenuous and mendacious villification of Geller and their interfaith strategies and tactics, is to be taken as suggesting that Jewish interfaith outreach to the Muslim communities is not important or necessary.
Those interfaith efforts most definitely are important and necessary.
All Jewish leaders, be they on the left or right, will need to accomodate and adjust their interfaith outreach to Muslim strategies and tactics to better accord with facts, circumstances and realities to improve the chances of success that they hope for.
One such welcome change would be for these Jewish leaders to stop publically disingenuously, maliciously and mendaciously villifying Geller and instead speak the truths that Geller speaks, even if they do not cast those truths in as harsh a light as Geller does.
Ted Belman Said:
This clip is one of many where she says essentially the same thing.
Mosques in America See her quote beginning at the 7:40 point on the clip.
Her selective and diluted message is what is difficult to defend in MO. Here she says that radical Islam Jihadism (undefined) are “the military wing of Islam.”? It would be more resonating if she were to say that Islam is a violent creed ( not a religion as Americans understand the concept) which preaches XYZ and is anti democracy and is a subversive element to any society not ruled according to Sharia. Some Muslims practice violence and terrorism others through the propagation of their creed by using democratic systems and norms to subvert plauralistic non muslim societies. (All Muslims pay a charitable Tax They are supported to that end by the Saudis ( Most of the 9/11 perps) who seed with billions of dollars ( mostly money from western oil purchases to build Mosques Muslim institutions and American universities to enable their global caliphate agenda. The use of Zakat (Mandatory Muslim Tax or charity)
What ever works is the rule in Islam, sometimes terror sometimes by using and subverting liberal systems.
I would provide documentary backup to those accusations. By focusing only on or primarily on terrorists gives all the rest a free pass and lends the false belief and perception in the minds of those who view her that Islam is legitimate mostly non violent as are most Muslims.
Most polls and surveys of Muslims in Western countries would largely refute that perception but she cites none and leaves the impression or does not refute the perception that most Muslims are peaceful, non violent as is Islam.
You could make a more credible argument against Islam than Geller. Even so called Moderate Muslims support and subsidize Terror and subversion through Zakat! https://www.israpundit.org/archives/35546
If her audience were primarily the Jewish community she won’t get to first base. If your designated audience is the general public she is to PC to resonate beyond the mostly already convinced. She will continue to be funded by those no matter how she comes across.
“At Vatican II, the Catholic Church repudiated Christian anti-Semitism”
But they elect for pope a man who was formerly a Hitler Youth during the Holocaust. Such a repudiation is like a bear promising he will no longer shit in the woods.
Bethesdadog: you are absolutely RIGHT! reform Judaism is a fifth column in world Jewry… but I do not consider them as real Jews.
@ Yidvocate:
She isn’t the only sane voice, but one of a shrinking number who are. She constantly receives abuse and calumny from those who should be doing the work that she is. She’s been attacked by groups like the ADL and the Southern Poverty Law Center, both of which should be ashamed for their cowardice and own hate.
I don’t agree with everything she says, or everything she has done, but she, more than any other person, is the early warning signal for the defense of free society against the horrors and dangers of militant, jihadist Islam. Nobody does what she does, with the possible exception of her staunch ally, Robert Spencer. Who else calls attention to the persecution and oppression of minorities under Islam? Whe else has so extensively brought to western attention the oppression of women under Islam, including rape victims who are treated as perpetrators, and young girls who are mutilated and married off when they should be learning basic skills in elementary school.
The reform rabbinical community, in general, is a dangerous and seditious fifth column in world Jewry. They are blind to the evils of militant jihadist Islam and are endangering all of us with their despicable attitudes toward those calling attention to the threats we face.
@ yamit82:Somethimes you go to far in your iconoclasm. Geller has no illusions about Islam or “moderate” muslims. The fact that she distinguishes between the moderates and the radicals shows she is interested in getting her larger message across namely that Islam and Sharia are an abomination. You are wrong to say
yamit82 Said:
She does not.
If she were to do as you suggest she would lose all credibility and even more doors would be closed to her. I find your condemnation of her, reprehensible.
Has had little to no effect among Catholic Jew haters especially those in the church and no effect on non Catholic christians.
To even bring it up as an example to be emulated by Muslims shows Geller is as ignorant or disingenuous as the rabbis she condemns. She still classifies radical Islam from Islam. Maybe she feels it politic to make the differentiation or maybe she is as ignorant as the rest of the talking heads. She is on record as saying she Loves Muslims and some of her best friends are Muslim but they are the “good moderate peace loving muslims”
Get real, where it counts she isn’t much better than those who refuse to condemn Islam for what it is.
We’re in serious trouble if the only sane voice in the crowd is Pamela’s!