The Beginning of the End for Liberal Jewry

By Jonathan S. Tobin, COMMENTARY

A new survey of the Jewish population in the Greater New York area contradicts the conventional wisdom about the subject. It has long been assumed that any portrait of American Jews must tell us a story about an aging, liberal population that is rapidly assimilating. But, as the New York Times reports, the latest results show that the population of the largest center of Jewish life outside of Israel is actually growing. The survey’s estimate of New York City’s Jewish community pegs it at about 1.1 million, with 1.54 million being counted when you include the surrounding suburban counties on Long Island and Westchester (Jews in Northern New Jersey who would also be considered part of Greater New York were not counted). Of even greater import is that the rapid expansion of ultra-Orthodox and Hasidic Jewry are the sole reason for this population growth. By contrast, the numbers of Jews who identity with the heretofore much larger non-Orthodox movements have declined precipitately. The only other sector that is growing is made up of those Jews who reject all the denominations or eschew religion entirely.

If, as the survey tells us, 40 percent of Jews in New York City and 74 percent of all Jewish children are Orthodox, then this must inform our conclusions not only about what American Jews believe but also about its future. When combined with the nearly one-third of Jews who are abandoning Jewish identity altogether, this paints a picture of an American Jewish population that is comprised of two ships passing each other in the night — one becoming increasingly Orthodox and the other on the brink of not being Jewish at all. Because the Orthodox have radically different views on political issues from those of the non-Orthodox as well as generally identifying more thoroughly with Israel, this will inevitably alter the political balance of the community. Though the numbers may be different elsewhere in the country, with about one-third of American Jewry located in Greater New York, there’s little doubt this means the Jewish community of the future will be far less liberal.

More than 20 years ago, the organized Jewish world was shaken by the results of the 1990 National Jewish Population Survey. It painted a sobering picture of an aging and shrinking community, but the number that galvanized discussion about the results was 52 percent. That was the survey’s estimate of the number of Jews marrying outside their faith and constituted a stunning rise above previous studies on the subject. Some experts, including Steven M. Cohen (the leader of the group who conducted the current survey about Greater New York), who later wrote that a more accurate estimate would have put the figure at 41 percent, disputed that figure. But whether it was 41 or 52 percent, there was no longer any doubt about the fact that the American Jews were undergoing a radical change. More to the point, the impact of such a high intermarriage rate as well as other indications that much of Jewry was rapidly assimilating and thereby shedding their Jewish identity, would ultimately lead to a very different looking community in the future.

These numbers scared Jewish organizations badly. But much of the concern was wrongly focused on a symptom — intermarriage — rather than the cause of the problem that was rooted in a communal culture that pinned identity on external factors such as memory of the Holocaust and support for Israel rather than on building identity via education. Nevertheless, the furor about intermarriage was enough to cause Jewish philanthropic groups to begin to focus their efforts more on causes that promoted “continuity,” fearing a future in which a dominant liberal American Jewish identity would find itself on the verge of extinction.

But 20 years later, it is more than obvious that the demographic chickens have already come home to roost for liberal Jewry. As the new study points out, even as the numbers of Orthodox Jews grow by leaps and bounds, Jewish observance is declining among the non-Orthodox. While nearly half of young Jewish adults in the region have a attended a Jewish day school of some kind, most of those who do not identity with a denomination aren’t giving their kids any sort of Jewish education. And it should also be noted that half of the non-Orthodox who marry have a spouse who is not Jewish. Because studies have shown us that the children of intermarriage are far less likely to get a Jewish education or to marry a Jew, the ominous conclusions to be drawn from these numbers are obvious.

The fact that a large proportion of the growing ultra-Orthodox sector is also poor and not connected to the rest of Jewry also complicates efforts to provide Jewish services or to unite these disparate groups into a coherent community.

But above all, this means the Jewish community of the future will be even less politically and religiously liberal. The assumption that Jewish life could be built on a largely secular lifestyle in which liberal politics would provide a substitute for faith was as foolish as the notion that it could persist on identification with the Yiddish language or certain ethnic foods. The assumption that most American Jews will always be secular liberals is a myth that has just been exploded.

June 12, 2012 | 91 Comments »

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50 Comments / 91 Comments

  1. BlandOatmeal Said:

    BlandOatmeal says:
    June 14, 2012 at 11:04 am

    You’re creating a straw man, Shy Guy, because you have lost the argument. You said the Bible, by which I assume you particularly mean the New Testament, is a fairy tale. Fairy tales are about mythical people who never existed. This is not the case with the Bible, nor with Qur’an

    Really, fairy tales can’t have historical figures in them?

    Hooray for Hollywood!

    Jesus was a historical, figure, just like Mohammed. You accept the “tree” of Christianity in the world, but you deny the existence of the seed it sprouted from. I have news for you: Trees sprout from seeds

    Thou waxeth poetic today.

    I told you that it makes no difference to me whether the NT or the Quran are based on actual figures or not.

    As for seeds and sprouting, all I can say again is hooray for Hollywood!

  2. @ yamit82:

    Ah, but you do and have just that.

    If I did, I did it baselessly. Please accept my apologies.

    Nothing paradoxical. Orthodox Judaism as practiced by most is a religion and Judaism was never meant to be A Religion per-se. I believe that since the return of the Jews to the Land of Israel Judaism must revert to the Judaism that was indivisible with living in the Land of Israel where living in the land and religion are integrated in a natural way by adding in practice all the commandments of the Torah relating to the Land that cannot be observed in the exile.

    That’s what I said — it’s a new doctrine, a new “faith”. When you say “I believe”, you are making a statement of faith. “Doctrine” means “teaching”; and we teach what’s in our hearts (unless we’re professional teachers, in which way we lie for a living). That’s why I said what I said; getting into what you said, let me see…

    …since the return of the Jews to the Land of Israel Judaism must revert to the Judaism that was indivisible with living in the Land of Israel

    That’s a good doctrine; though I don’t think people are beating down your door, trying to learn it. I also believe that Judaism should revert to “Land” Judaism, now that the Jews are back in the Land. The Ultra Orthodox appear to be a few centuries behind you on this count, but maybe they’ll repent. The Devil’s in the details, of course: How do you get a people who, by and large, have swallowed homosexuality and adultery as the norm, to accept Torah morality? How do you get a people with perhaps more vegetarians per capita than anyone except the Hindus, many of them animal rights nuts, to accept animal sacrifice? The $64,000 question, in my book, is how do you re-institute the High Priesthood, without the congregation throwing citrons at the High Priest, and the HP responding by crucifying them all? Lots of details, huh?

    Fortunately, the Temple Mount is occupied by Israel’s enemies, with consent of the Israeli government. Moshe Dayan was no idiot: He saw real trouble ahead, when his men captured Har Habayit.

    Shalom shalom 🙂

  3. @ BlandOatmeal:

    I can’t argue with you there, Yamit. I have my own opinions on the matter, but I don’t have a basis to tell people of other religions, how to keep their religion going.

    Ah, but you do and have just that.

    You seem to be promoting a new doctrine, defending “halacha” in one breath, while pronouncing doom on the most ardently “halachic”. I’m not calling you a heretic; in fact, I think you represent the views of many Jews on this matter. It’s a paradoxical stance; but then, most Jews are in a paradoxical place.

    Nothing paradoxical. Orthodox Judaism as practiced by most is a religion and Judaism was never meant to be A Religion per-se. I believe that since the return of the Jews to the Land of Israel Judaism must revert to the Judaism that was indivisible with living in the Land of Israel where living in the land and religion are integrated in a natural way by adding in practice all the commandments of the Torah relating to the Land that cannot be observed in the exile.

    Taryag Mitzvot: A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments)

    The law of the Torah is straightforward: Jews are “the people that dwell alone.” We refuse to intermingle. I know, that’s insulting. But there is a whole lot of difference between refusing association with a particular group, such as blacks, and refusing association with everyone. We refuse to intermingle not out of hatred for any particular group, but because we want to be alone. It is unrealistic to hate everyone, as the strength of the feeling would dissipate, but it is possible to distance oneself from all other peoples. Our distancing is entirely neutral; it is not provoked by hatred. That is sort of the attitude which leads you to close the doors of your house even when you don’t fear theft: you have a right to privacy, to practicing your peculiar way of life.

    That’s the point. Jews who lead the Jewish life have the right and obligation to distance themselves from gentiles. In fact, gentiles rarely hate such Jews. Jewish books from the Torah to Kitzur Shulhan Aruch are exclusionist as opposed to racism, not about Race. Anyone can convert to Judaism and become as Jewish as Ruth, the grandmother of King David.

  4. Shy Guy,

    I responded to you; but the Isramonster ate up my post. The Thought Police are on your side.

  5. @ Shy Guy:

    Do you accept the claims by Islam that the Quran is Allah’s accurate scripture, word for word, and that Moe is Allah’s prophet, and that Allah and the angel Gabriel spoke to Moe and and that you should be a dhimmi, yada yada?

    You’re creating a straw man, Shy Guy, because you have lost the argument. You said the Bible, by which I assume you particularly mean the New Testament, is a fairy tale. Fairy tales are about mythical people who never existed. This is not the case with the Bible, nor with Qur’an. We aren’t talking about divine authorship, prophetic credentials, nor anything of the sort. Hell, half the Jews on Israpundit don’t even believe in God, much less than the story of Jonah; but they accept the historical validity of Torah — at least the part about how the Jews are an ancient people who trace their roots back to the time of its writing.

    Jesus was a historical, figure, just like Mohammed. You accept the “tree” of Christianity in the world, but you deny the existence of the seed it sprouted from. I have news for you: Trees sprout from seeds; they don’t spontaneously happen. Stop your nonesense denials. Not only was Jesus real, he was also a Jew; He was born when Quirinius was Governor of Syria. This is recorded in the gospels, but the fact was lost to the world for over 1000 years, until recently discovered by archealogists. All the aspects of Jewish religion, life and politics during Jesus’ lifetime are minutely described in the gospels. The very best description, in fact, appear in modern-day Jews such as you, whose beliefs, customs and ATTITUDES are identical to those of the particularist, self-centered religious hypocrites of Jesus’ day. You do not speak like an ancient Roman, nor an acient Greek; you speak like the Jews described in Jesus’ time: Many of them were sincere followers of Hashem, many were Hellenist apostates, and some were proud jerks with pokers up their butts. If the shoe fits, wear it; I don’t want to insult you; I’ve done enough of that.

    God bless and keep you and yours. Thank you for writing to me.

  6. Viiit Said:

    @ Shy Guy:
    You are confusing the issues: By calling the laws “fake” I did not insult you, I merely expressed my opinion about the laws, not about you.

    Which is essentially calling the Rabbis liars and the Jewish nation their suckers for over 2 millennium. What’s not to like?!

  7. Viiit Said:

    @ Viiit:
    Our club is quite exclusivist but not closed shut for those who are serious and really wish to join us. Any non or partial Jew can convert properly if they were serious.
    I’d accept that as one way of joining our tribe. Another might be just living with us and being a good citizen. Certainly the children of such people would be Jewish.
    If we rely o people believing in donkeys talking and Samson strength depending on the length of his hair, Jonas traveling in the whale’s stomach and God creating the world 5700 years ago, we are going to make ourselves obsolete and irrelevant.

    Your post above makes you obsolete and irrelevant to the Jewish nation. You don’t believe in G-d’s Torah, nor in the Prophets, nor in the eternity of the Jewish Nation by continuing to follow them. Put on a Brooklyn accent, move to Miami and open yourself up a Jewish-style cultcha’ club that serves knishes and blintzes. That’s all you need.

  8. BlandOatmeal Said:

    BlandOatmeal says:
    June 14, 2012 at 10:03 am

    I accept the fact that the Quran is real, that it was given by Muhammed, and that all the early practitioners of Islam were historical figures. You live in a fairy tale land, that denies reality.

    Do you accept the claims by Islam that the Quran is Allah’s accurate scripture, word for word, and that Moe is Allah’s prophet, and that Allah and the angel Gabriel spoke to Moe and and that you should be a dhimmi, yada yada?

    Is that your reality? Please let us know. Assuming it isn’t, go back and place my comment to you in parallel vis a vis Judaism’s view of christianity.

    As for insisting that either your jesus or their Moe were actual historical figures, I can take it either way – it makes no difference to me as far as the fictitiousness of both the NT and the Quran. For example, see Robert Spencer’s latest book, Did Muhammad Exist?: An Inquiry into Islam’s Obscure Origins and Earl Doherty’s book, Jesus: Neither God Nor Man – The Case for a Mythical Jesus.

  9. Viiit Said:

    Viiit says:
    June 14, 2012 at 10:00 am

    @ yamit82:
    You say that the only thing that defines a Jew is religion.

    I never said such a thing. Technically one is a Jew either by being born of a Jewish mother or having converted to Judaism according to the Torah. After that, what you observe or don’t observe of Torah law and ethics determines your loyalty or lack of it to G-d’s will.

    What defines a Jew is like what defines French: Someone who believes himself to be French, who participates in French culture, who sees the French people as his people who claims the history of France as his, and who is accepted by the French as French.

    Wishful thinking. G-d defined who is a Jew and what it takes for a non-Jew to become one. And just to cut you off before you reply with a possible retort, G-d is not French. 🙂

  10. @ yamit82:
    First of all, nation and race are very different.
    Jews are not a pure race, we are a mixture of all sort of Semitic and non-Semitic people from most ancient times. Among our ancestors are possible Abrahamites, Moabites, other Canaanite tribes, Philistines, Hittites, and much more. It’s all in our genes.
    Just like French or German people are not ethnically or racially “pure”. An ethnically “pure” nation would actually be genetically weak.
    Most nations do share degree of ethnicity, and the ethnic composition usually changes slowly, however

    nationality is a matter of identity

    , not ethnicity, religion, or race.

    It’s “who I am” statement: I am Jewish

  11. @ Shy Guy:
    You are confusing the issues: By calling the laws “fake” I did not insult you, I merely expressed my opinion about the laws, not about you.
    I did not judge you as “stupid”, either.

  12. @ Viiit:
    Our club is quite exclusivist but not closed shut for those who are serious and really wish to join us. Any non or partial Jew can convert properly if they were serious.

    I’d accept that as one way of joining our tribe. Another might be just living with us and being a good citizen. Certainly the children of such people would be Jewish.
    If we rely o people believing in donkeys talking and Samson strength depending on the length of his hair, Jonas traveling in the whale’s stomach and God creating the world 5700 years ago, we are going to make ourselves obsolete and irrelevant.

  13. Shy Guy said:

    Not the brightest monk in the monastery, are you? Shall we apply the same faulty logic re Christians, Jews and Hindus under Islamic rule for 100s of or 1400 years (mileage varying depending on location)?

    Yes, if you insist. I accept the fact that the Quran is real, that it was given by Muhammed, and that all the early practitioners of Islam were historical figures. You live in a fairy tale land, that denies reality.

  14. @ yamit82:
    You say that the only thing that defines a Jew is religion.
    But I am not religious in the lest. I am anti-religious and still 100% a Jew.
    What defines a Jew is like what defines French: Someone who believes himself to be French, who participates in French culture, who sees the French people as his people who claims the history of France as his, and
    who is accepted by the French as French.

    It may not be exact definition, there may be adjustments and exceptions, but here is an interesting fact: I run into Jews all the time. Somehow spontaneously I strike conversations with people and then discover that they are Jewish. This happens much more often than statistically expected from random choices. I don’t know what choices I make other than generally avoiding the obviously religious.
    So to me there is something that I cannot consciously define, yet quite recognizable. Also, even if Spanish Jews have a different history from Russian Jews, we have a lot of history in common. Of course we have a similar religious past in common, too. That’s part of our history. I am not advocating denying our religious past, I am only saying that we are Jews in the same sense as other nations are Japanese, Koreans, Irish, or Russian.

  15. BlandOatmeal Said:

    Jews lived under Christian rule for some 1700 years. If the Christians were in a fairy tale, where were the Jews? Their masters were anything but make-believe.

    Not the brightest monk in the monastery, are you? Shall we apply the same faulty logic re Christians, Jews and Hindus under Islamic rule for 100s of or 1400 years (mileage varying depending on location)?

  16. @ Shy Guy:
    Shy Guy,

    Jews lived under Christian rule for some 1700 years. If the Christians were in a fairy tale, where were the Jews? Their masters were anything but make-believe.

  17. BlandOatmeal Said:

    BlandOatmeal says:
    June 14, 2012 at 8:41 am

    Jesus was turned over for execution by jealous religious authorities;

    Only according to the fairy tale book christians believe in.

  18. @ yamit82:

    I don’t want them , you can have them they’re too far gone for me!!! For the same reason European Jewry was destroyed so will most of American Jewry including the ultra religious, maybe especially the Ultras.

    I can’t argue with you there, Yamit. I have my own opinions on the matter, but I don’t have a basis to tell people of other religions, how to keep their religion going. I was raised a Catholic; and I must say, the Catholics have done a good job of amassing and keeping numbers. Even so, Catholicism is a shell of what it was around, say, 1500. I’ve also been part of “Born Again” churches, and have a cautious judgment of them: Their churches fall apart in one place, only for another to pop up somewhere else with a different name, a different pastor and some different doctrines. It’s hard to keep track of. Charismatic Jewish movements travel much the same course. Jesus was turned over for execution by jealous religious authorities; and it’s no wonder; that those who follow him the most closely, have a difficult time gaining permanent acceptance in the religious world.

    You seem to be promoting a new doctrine, defending “halacha” in one breath, while pronouncing doom on the most ardently “halachic”. I’m not calling you a heretic; in fact, I think you represent the views of many Jews on this matter. It’s a paradoxical stance; but then, most Jews are in a paradoxical place.

    Hashem knows those who trust in Him; and they can trust in Him to sort this thing out.

  19. @ Shy Guy:
    Always quick to criticize, aren’t you? I stated it as something I was told (as I understand it), not as truth. I was inviting a response but not invective.

  20. Marlene,
    I am not sure that romantic love is the only or even proper way in every case to build a marriage on. Arrangements by parents, depending on culture and situation, may be a preferred way.
    Marriage if for children’s sake not only for those who are getting married.

  21. Also, do most jews really believe in and feel their own direct connection to g-d? Or do they just believe in a bunch of laws.? If the second is true, we will continue to lose our children, not only to intermarriage, but to other religions that bring more fulfillment because of the spiritual value of being connected to g-d.

  22. Everyone should marry the person whom they love. It can be difficult enough to maintain a marriage, but, without love, one can never be happy, content, maybe or not, but not happy.

  23. While Orthodox play very important role in preservation of the Judaism and the traditions of our people, their Halakhah does not define who is a Jew.
    According to Torah the offspring of Abraham is anyone who is “born into your [Abraham’s, not Sarah’s house or purchased for money [i.e. like slaves or Sarah although naturally their status and thus rights are quite different].”
    Accept for Amonites, Moabites, and woman of the seven Canaanite nations, a Jewish man is free to marry any women from any other nation without absolutely any regard for her faith. The offspring of such unions are Jews, just like Ephraim and Menashe whose names we use every Shabbat to say brakhah over our sons.
    In fact, until the ruling by Rabbi Temanit registered in Mishah the offspring of a Jewish mother and non-Jewish fathers were considered either (half-Jews… see Torah the case of Shulamit and her Egyptian husband) or mamzer (Philo, Josephus, Mishnah).
    We are not children only of heroes, but also of cowards and liars and evildoers. A better definition of Jews as people would be a unique nation of proselytes (i.e. converts) and their descendants.
    Rabbinic law is a Jewish law only by default… because we don’t have truly national institutions of power, e.g. Sanhedrins.
    I believe today, the task for all of us is to create such institutions… possibly by separating the Jewish Agency from the State of Israel and turning it into Sanhedrin.

  24. @ viiit:
    The Halacha is that if the mother is Jewish then the child is Jewish- it is not paternal- you probably know that. HOWEVER, should the child for whom only the father is Jewish wants to be considered Jewish ( live Jewish life or simply be counted among the Jewish people and Israel) he or she could convert formally-there’s is nothing preventing that. By the way, Religious Zionism allows you to wait for mashiach in a Jewish state or, in your terms, to care about turning lights on and off and serve in the IDF at the same time. Also, Judaism doesn’t proseletyze or seek converts just to increase its numbers so, just like non-Jews who can’t just be counted as Jews just because they want to, neither can children for who only the father is Jewish, can either. Saying the rule is “retarded” is almost like saying that a surgeon should not scrub before an operation because you can’t see or don’t believe in germs- the Halacha is clear and you can’t change that because it doesn’t suit a personal political or demographic agenda.

  25. @ Yidvocate:
    Yidvocate Said:

    only true Torah Judaism, know today as “Orthodox Judaism”,

    Othodox Judaism is not Torah Judaism it is rabbinic tradition Judaism. The Torah does not say to wear only black and white, or to wear long overcoats in hot Israel or NYC, or wear a kippah, or that being Jewish is based on the mother’s line, or to not eat dairy and meat together (rabbinic interpretation of not boiling a kid in its mothers milk. Abraham served his guests dairy and meat together, Genesis 18:5-8 (the torah does not say they ate them hours apart from each other), not letting women have leadership roles (D’vorah was a judge for 40 years), etc. etc. etc. I am not saying that any or all of these tradtions are wrong necessarily, but they are what they are – rabbinical traditions, not Torah law.

  26. @ viiit:

    Don’t hold your breath waiting for a polite or intelligent response from shy guy or yamit82. It is better just to read the posts by Ted, and if you want to read the responses to the article skim past shy guy and yamit.

  27. If you were born a Jew, you are descended from heroes and heroines who, at various points in history, chose to relinquish their property, their homes, and sometimes their lives, for the sake of their religious principles. Masses of other Jews — sometimes the majority — chose to forfeit their core identity as Jews in order to assimilate into the prevailing religious milieu. You are not descended from them.

    Your ancestors were the brave idealists who were willing to sacrifice all for their Jewish convictions. Allow me to introduce you to them.

  28. The same thing happened here in Cincinnati the former reform movement capital. The liberal reform families were so successful in their liberalism that their children bought that garbage and married out of the faith at a high rate. Any children of the mixed marriage that have a Jewish father are NOT Jewish and in the case of the mother their Jewishness has to be questioned due to reform and conservative ‘conversions’.
    In the past the Orthodox families moved away but now are moving back in. Orthodox (or true) Jews have many children who are raised in a Jewish environment not a liberal ‘progressive’ one and will continue to follow the Torah. Reform ‘Judaism’ is based on falsehood and that’s why it self destructed, it’s a progressive attempt to undermine the Jewish faith. Other movements like the haskala (enlightenment) and the Alliance Universelle attempted to do the same in Europe and the other in Arab countries and caused a lot of harm. Both have also faded away as the ‘reform’ movement falsehood will.
    What incentive is there to be Jewish when one is raised as a liberal who will march in goose steps with every leftist cause without Torah which bonds the Jewish people? Their children see a non Jew and ask why can’t they can’t get married because the non Jew is also a liberal. They lack Jewish values and see no difference between the liberal non Jew.
    Falsehood (sheker) has no leg to stand on while Torah (emet) does. It’s easier to demonstrate when written in Hebrew.

  29. emmess Said:

    emmess says:
    June 13, 2012 at 7:40 pm

    As I understand it, Judaism being determined by the mother being Jewish was germane to ancient times when women were commonly raped by invading armies and anti-Jews. It was a brilliant concept for the time but times have changed and it may be wise to rethink this matter.

    Shehker (falsehood) from the falsely named Emmess (truth).

  30. As I understand it, Judaism being determined by the mother being Jewish was germane to ancient times when women were commonly raped by invading armies and anti-Jews. It was a brilliant concept for the time but times have changed and it may be wise to rethink this matter. The idea of a Jewish man being involved in a non-consensual conception was not considered. On the other hand, Moses’ wife was a Moabite and there are several biblical references to Jewish fathers and their Jewish offsprings.
    On another aspect of the story: several years ago I covered a conference of Conservative rabbis in Toronto and the guest speaker (whose name I have forgotten) said something to the effect that the new generation of rabbis was more “observant”. When I questioned him afterwards and used the word “orthodox”, he correct me and emphasized “observant”. They adhere to Torah law in the manner of the modern orthodox and my observation is that the Jewish schools are much more “observant” in their teachings. The kids today learn much more about Judaism than my generation did at the Talmud Torah in Winnipeg in the ’50s.

  31. @ viiit:

    Shy’s response to you was not insulting. Your comment was in fact insulting because it is neither fact based nor logical. What you essentially said that any phony Jew can define his own Judaism and anyone who opposes your self defined concept is a primitive believing in superstitious beliefs.

    You implied that the raison d’etre of the Jewish people is the establishment of increased numbers by any means kosher or not. Total Bullshit!!!

    Here is the Way it’s going to be:

    We stand up and proudly show our observances. If you like them—welcome. If you despise them, we don’t care.

    A strong, proud, religious Israel need not adapt her ways to anyone’s tastes.

    Jewish nationalism devoid of our spiritual base and traditions is racist.

  32. I have no idea why people like you are so happy to see the disappearance of less than fully observant and secular Jewry? It is like being glad to see a human being loosing his flesh and blood and retaining only only the “living” skeleton. Because that is what strictly speaking the orthodox Jewry actually is… a skeleton… but not the whole of the Jewish people. Never was and never will be!

  33. viiit Said:

    Shy Guy,
    Your comment is slightly rude and not conducive to a good discussion. Clearly I have a DIFFERENT concept than you.
    Now, intelligent people are able to discuss their differences rather than insult each other. Try again.
    @ Shy Guy:

    Glad you didn’t like it.

    Unlike your politeness, such referring to “fake rabbinical law”, when it is neither fake nor rabbinic.Then there was your calling it a “retarded law”. As Ronald Reagan once said, “There you go again!”

    Blow it out your ear.

  34. @ Felix Quigley:

    I might respond but I really don’t know what you are talking about. Not sure you know what you are talking about but that’s pretty normal for you.

  35. @ BlandOatmeal:

    So, call them “Democrats” or “Obamists” instead of “Jews”. They’re the same people, and they’re still here.

    I don’t want them , you can have them they’re too far gone for me!!! For the same reason European Jewry was destroyed so will most of American Jewry including the ultra religious, maybe especially the Ultras.

    “The “religious” Jew? Nay, say rather the Orthodox practitioner of Jewish ritual whose sojourn in an Exile two millennia old has corrupted and perverted the most basic of real Jewish values. Bearded and piously payotic; or cleanshaven and woolly skullcapped, they join with all the others in the ecumenical worship of the Golden Calf of our times: The Golden Exile Kahane http://www.geocities.ws/nkmpa/religiousjew.html”

    We have enough problems with them already in Israel and as far as the atheist secular Liberal Jews? They would be more problematic than any significant asset. In two more generations they won’t be a problem for anyone. They will have thoroughly melted

  36. @ viiit:

    We could double our nation by including the Jews from mixed marriages and those who were forcibly converted in Spain. The point is not racial purity, or observing religious superstition, but strong national, cultural identity, the fellowship with other Jews, claiming Jewish history as one’s own, and above all, willingness to defend Jewish nation and the Jewish state from the enemies.

    A Jew defined by father or mother’s biology is hereditary therefor based on race or sub racial definition genes as opposed to color. So you contradict yourself.

    observing religious superstition It is that superstitious religion that defines who and what is a Jew. It designates the land of Israel as a National home for only the Jewish People, not NY,LA Paris or Moscow.

    Jewish History There is no Common Jewish History and certainly Jews have a longer history in Europe than they do in the Land of Israel. No common spoken language? maybe English could pass for a common Jewish language today. No such thing as a Jewish Culture even in Israel. Jews adopted the cultures from the countries they lived in.

    Defending the JEWISH STATE?

    Why do you call it a Jewish State? What’s particularly Jewish asoie from the fact that we have a Majority claiming to be Jewish. So if American, British and French Jews do not defend the Jewish State but we have 50K Africans and 400K Slavs who do we should accept the Africans and Slavs as Jewish because they are willing to fight and the Chicken-Shit N American and European “Jews would never consider such an option”?

    We got Arabs fighting for Israel, Non Jewish Christian and atheist Slavs fighting for Israel some are even Neo-Nazis, Hate Jews but are willing to fight for the State. Where I live we got about 3k Black Heeb cultists from Chicago and some of their kids are serving in the IDF. They believe they are the real Jews and hope eventually bring to Israel millions of American Blacks, take over the country from we false Jews. Some of them fight for Israel. Then we have children of some CHRISTIAN EVANGELISTS who also serve in the IDF. We got a real basis for a Non Jewish foreign legion serving today in the IDF. Lets call them for the protocol purposes all Jews.

    We could put ads in the NY Slime, saying that anyone who comes to Israel and is willing to serve in the IDF will be automatically granted citizenship on completion of service and be declared Jewish if they want it.

    We would be flooded with Africans, Chinese and probably a lot of Arabs, but I doubt you would get more than a handful of those partially racial Jews whose father is Jewish but the mother not. Reform Jews accept the father and they can all get Israeli citizenship. They will never be considered Kosher Jews because they aren’t. As I said only the Torah defines who and what is a Jew as opposed to who is an Israeli. We have many non Jewish Israelis who are citizens and serve as citizens in the IDF. Does not give them a free pass into the tribe. That requires any non Jew to accept Jewish standards and requirements to be Jewish and we just don’t accept everybody. Our club is quite exclusivist but not closed shut for those who are serious and really wish to join us. Any non or partial Jew can convert properly if they were serious.

    I personally know 4 young boy who’s fathers are Jewish and who would have been brought up with Jewish identity if was not for this retarded law.

    Nobody stopped them from: either the mother converting or bringing the children up Jewish.

    The only thing that has kept Jews, Jews in the past 3300 years is that “religious superstition” Not culture, Not History, Not language. Nobody would have withstood what the Jews experienced for the last 2k years for culture and history especially since the Jews experienced different Histories at different times and places. And certainly not for a non specific or particular Jewish (non) culture.

  37. The assumption that most American Jews will always be secular liberals is a myth that has just been exploded

    This is sensationalism. There is no explosion anywhere: the same people are simply being redefined: People who were once defined as “secular liberal Jews” are simply re-defining themselves as “secular liberals”. America still has to put up with the same Jewish (by ordinary American standards, not religious) secular liberals. They still vote the same way, and they still infect the country with their insane East European Jewish thinking. The “Jewish” community is simply washing its hands of them.

    So, call them “Democrats” or “Obamists” instead of “Jews”. They’re the same people, and they’re still here.

    As for that growing number of ultra-orthodox OVER HERE IN AMERICA, the fact that aliyah is not an important part of their doctrine might tell you something, both religiously and politically. I don’t care how many children they have: They are NOT mainstream Judaism, but are trying to create a little world of their own, both in New York and in Israel. Their very nature lends itself to schism and separation. The true Jews, in my opinion, are in Israel — and they speak Hebrew, not Yiddish.

  38. Shy Guy,
    Your comment is slightly rude and not conducive to a good discussion. Clearly I have a DIFFERENT concept than you.
    Now, intelligent people are able to discuss their differences rather than insult each other. Try again.

    @ Shy Guy:

  39. @ viiit:
    If you want culture, go to the Metropolitan.

    You have zero concept of what defines Jews, Judaism or the nation of Israel.

  40. There is nothing wrong with Jews marrying gentiles. What’s wrong is that the fake rabbinical law does not recognize children of Jewish fathers as Jews.
    I personally know 4 young boy who’s fathers are Jewish and who would have been brought up with Jewish identity if was not for this retarded law.

    We could double our nation by including the Jews from mixed marriages and those who were forcibly converted in Spain. The point is not racial purity, or observing religious superstition, but strong national, cultural identity, the fellowship with other Jews, claiming Jewish history as one’s own, and above all, willingness to defend Jewish nation and the Jewish state from the enemies.
    To me a 1/4 Jews who lives in Israel and who fights in IDF and is patriotic, is much more Jewish than 100% Jew who refuses turning light on and off on Saturdays but does not support Israel.

  41. It is all a matter of science. In fact the first law of genetics is: If your parents never had children then neither will you. Quite simple, really.

  42. May our eyes see the great betrayal TO THE JEWS that Yamit and Ted are carrying out in that they refuse to defend Assad from the Muslim Brotherhood Jihad.

    And in addition

    I believe Yamit that you have numbered yourself among the exploiters…that is you hired proletarians to make a profit out of your fellow man.

  43. Naftali kalfa ft Shlomo Katz – Zion

    May our eyes see Your return to Zion with love.

    The One who restores His Presence to Zion.

    May you build it up in our days an everlasting sanctuary.

    And prepare the throne of David your servant.

    May the Temple be built and the City of Zion be filled.

    And there we will sing a new song, and with joy ascend.

  44. Will Your Grandchildren Be Jewish? See Chart Here!!

    How Civilizations Die
    “People of faith have many children, and secular people have few or none.”
    — David P. Goldman

    The failure to have children. For the first time in history, the birthrate in the West has fallen below replacement level. Explain this to us. Why is it happening? Expand on the consequences.

    Goldman: That’s one of the few important developments in the world on which liberal and conservative scholars agree. People of faith have many children, and secular people have few or none. Liberal observers are terrified that “the religious will inherit the earth,” as the liberal sociologist Eric Kaufmann put it. America is the last big industrial country with a religious majority, and the only one with a birthrate above replacement. But that’s mainly due to evangelicals and Hispanic Catholics. Mainline Protestants, loosely-affiliated Catholics and secular Jews breed like Europeans. And people of faith in Europe behave like religious Americans. There just aren’t too many of them.

    For the Europeans, this means eventual economic collapse. Take Italy, which dominates our financial headlines at the moment. By 2050, three-fifths of Italians will be elderly dependents. We are struggling to reduce future entitlement spending in the US, where the workforce is still growing. Add a zero to our problems to get an idea of the size of Italy’s. It also means that it’s nonsense to talk about American decline. By mid-century Japan’s workforce will fall by a third and Europe’s by a quarter. We’re the only industrial country that will turn up for the rest of history

  45. The Liberalism that most Jews embrace as their religion was a farce to begin with. The welfare state has Marxist justification, but it really was started as a scam by that clever german diplomat, Otto Von Bismarck. Bismarck wanted to cut the power of the labor unions and make people completely dependent on the Kaiser; therefore, he came up with the idea of the welfare state. A sort of buying people off scheme. I have my doubts that buying off via the welfare state works. It is not working in Greece, Spain, and, now, the United States under the Communist trained and indoctrinated, Barack Hussein Obama.

  46. Jewish history has conclusively established that only true Torah Judaism, know today as “Orthodox Judaism”, endures. Countless splinter groups have come and gone through the ages and now it’s secular/liberal Judaism, soon to be followed by Conservative, Reform, Reconstructionist, Egalitarian, and whatever. Nothing remarkable here.