Saudis move toward Netanyahu’s vision on the Palestinians — NY Times

THIS IS HUGE

Account of Palestinian concern over proposal backed by Saudi crown prince comes out ahead of expected US policy change on Jerusalem

By ALEXANDER FULBRIGHT, TOI

Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas meets with Saudi King Salman in Riyadh on November 7, 2017. (Thaer Ghanaim / Wafa)

Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas meets with Saudi King Salman in Riyadh on November 7, 2017. (Thaer Ghanaim / Wafa)

An American peace plan rumored to be backed by Saudi Arabia has reportedly fueled concerns among Palestinian and Arab officials that Washington has adopted Israel’s views on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Under a proposal presented by Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman to Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas during the latter’s visit to Riyadh last month, the Palestinians would receive a non-contiguous state in the West Bank and Gaza Strip without full sovereignty over the territory they control; the vast majority of Jewish settlements in the West Bank would not be evacuated; the Palestinians would not receive East Jerusalem as their capital; and Palestinian refugees and their descendants would not be allowed to return to Israel, The New York Times reported late Sunday.

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Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu (L) and US President Donald Trump shake hands prior to their meeting at the Palace Hotel in New York City ahead of the United Nations General Assembly on September 18, 2017.(AFP Photo/Brendan Smialowski)

The report said the plan, many of whose tenets mirrored those favored by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, raised consternation among Abbas and other Arab officials as to the US’s intentions for an Israeli-Palestinian peace plan and whether the powerful crown prince was acting on behalf of the Trump administration.

Among the elements of the Saudi proposal outlined in the report were establishing the capital of a future Palestinian state in Abu Dis, a suburb of Jerusalem in the West Bank, east of Israel’s security barrier.

Another reported element of the Saudi pitch was to propose adding portions of Egypt’s Sinai Peninsula to Gaza in exchange for territories in the West Bank that the Palestinians would cede to Israel. Egypt has rejected such proposals in the past, with former president Hosni Mubarak recalling last week that he shot down the idea when it was raised by Netanyahu in 2010.

The report said Abbas was told by the Saudis he had two months to either accept the plan or face pressure to step down in favor of someone more amenable to the proposal.

The Times said details of the proposal presented to Abbas by the Saudi crown prince were confirmed by numerous sources, including a senior figure in Abbas’s Fatah party, a Palestinian official in Lebanon, a Lebanese politician, Western officials, and Israel’s Joint (Arab) List MK Ahmad Tibi.

A Palestinian man walks past the Israeli security barrier in the East Jerusalem village of Abu Dis (Kobi Gideon/Flash90)

Tibi denied the Saudis had presented Abbas with an American peace plan and dismissed Monday as “fake news” the notion that the crown prince had suggested Abu Dis become the capital of a Palestinian state. He said US officials had directly — rather than through the Sudis — “thrown around” proposals that the Palestinians would never accept, as they did not include “full sovereignty, the dismantlement of settlements or the end of the occupation.”

Tibi also warned that any move by Trump toward recognizing Jerusalem as Israel’s capital would end the possibility of a peace deal, and called the city’s status “a red line.”

Washington denied to The Times that the reported proposal was in fact its peace plan, while Riyadh insisted it remained committed to its own longstanding Arab Peace Initiative, which would include an Israeli withdrawal to the 1967 lines and a Palestinian capital in East Jerusalem in exchange for normalization with the Arab world.

The Saudi crown prince’s reported proposal to Abbas came only weeks after he met with Jared Kushner, Trump’s son-in-law and point man on the Israeli-Palestinian peace process. The two are said to have developed a close rapport.

Senior White House adviser Jared Kushner (L) meets with Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas in Ramallah on August 24, 2017. (courtesy, WAFA)

The Times report came as Kushner made rare public remarks on the White House’s push to revive peace talks, and as Monday’s deadline for Trump to sign a waiver delaying the move of the US embassy to Jerusalem inched ever closer.

Speaking on Sunday at the Saban Forum, Kushner said Trump remained undecided on moving the embassy or recognizing Jerusalem as Israel’s capital.

Kushner also said his team’s goal is to build trust between the sides, which he emphasized was increasing due the absence of leaks on the US peace plan.

A flurry of reports in recent days said that while Trump is expected to sign the waiver delaying the embassy move, he will give a speech on Wednesday recognizing Jerusalem as the Jewish state’s capital.

Such a statement would be highly controversial, upsetting not only the Palestinians but also other Sunni Arab allies, including Saudi Arabia and Jordan.

Spoke with  Secretary of State Tillerson on dangerous consequences of recognizing Jerusalem as capital of Israel. Such a decision would trigger anger across   worlds, fuel tension & jeopardize peace efforts.

A Palestinian delegation reportedly met with Kushner on Friday, warning him that relocating the embassy to Jerusalem, or formally recognizing the holy city as Israel’s capital, would “kill the negotiations” and mark the end of the peace process.

Both the head of the Arab League and Jordan’s foreign minister warned on Sunday that recognizing Jerusalem as Israel’s capital could lead to regional violence and derail attempts at renewing peace talks.

Eric Cortellessa and Dov Lieber contributed to this report.

December 4, 2017 | 15 Comments »

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15 Comments / 15 Comments

  1. senior figure in Abbas’s Fatah party, a Palestinian official in Lebanon, a Lebanese politician, Western officials, and Israel’s Joint (Arab) List MK Ahmad Tibi.

    Every one of these is likely to be hostile to Israel and not to shrink from lying to influence policy through fake news. Western Officials probably means the EU, right? Ahmad Tibi is an Israeli Arab politician who wants Israel to cease being a Jewish state. See:

    https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.774936

    Sources are unreliable all the way down the line. This is enemy disinformation not news.

  2. In the article, the Times article cited says the White House denied it? Who are you going to believe, Trump or the NY Slimes?
    Anonymous sources quoted by the Times? Seriously?

    November 14, 2017 by Gilead Ini

    NY Times Delivers One-Two Punch Against Iraqi Jewish History

    In a pair of articles this fall, the New York Times ignored violence and persecution faced by Iraqi Jews in the 1940s and 50s, suggesting that nearly the entire community “left” or “departed” inexplicably…”
    http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=2&x_outlet=35&x_article=3783

    http://jewishweek.timesofisrael.com/telling-it-like-it-wasnt/

  3. “An American peace plan rumored .. The New York Times reported….”

    Here’s the article cited:

    “The White House on Sunday denied that was its plan, saying it was still months away from finalizing a blueprint for peace, and the Saudi government denied that it supports those positions.”
    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/03/world/middleeast/palestinian-saudi-peace-plan.html

    What are they saying, “Methinks the lady doth protest too much?” Hasn’t the Times ever heard of “No, means No?” For shame.
    Banished to the political correctness hall of shame.

    [an unrelated side note, we have to perform Wagner because we can separate his music from the fact that he was fucking Nazi, but, if somebody finds an anonymous letter or 3 accusing him of groping somebody, can we finally shelve the bastard, for good?) Just a thought]
    Here’s another past prediction from “anonymous sources”
    “Back on May 9th, the White House released the letter that President Trump sent to former FBI Director James Comey informing him that he’d been relieved of his duties at the FBI. Within that letter, Trump awkwardly inserted a sentence thanking Comey for informing him “on three separate occasions, that I am not under investigation.” Here’s the full sentence…”
    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-06-07/looks-cnns-anonymous-sources-got-one-wrong

    Could they, just maybe, trying to make policy by reporting what they want to be happening?

    Anybody remember this gem?

    http://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/Jewish-News/NY-Times-slammed-for-coverage-of-Crown-Heights-riots

    And here’s the original article it cites:

    “…My job was to file memos to the main “rewrite” reporters back in the Times office in Manhattan about what I saw and heard…Yet, when I picked up the paper, the article I read was not the story I had reported. I saw headlines that described the riots in terms solely of race. “Two Deaths Ignite Racial Clash in Tense Brooklyn Neighborhood,” the Times headline said. And, worse, I read an opening paragraph, what journalists call a “lead,” that was simply untrue:

    “Hasidim and blacks clashed in the Crown Heights section of Brooklyn through the day and into the night yesterday.”

    In all my reporting during the riots I never saw — or heard of — any violence by Jews against blacks”

    http://jewishweek.timesofisrael.com/telling-it-like-it-wasnt/

    I love Tom Hanks. Such a comedian:

    http://www.breitbart.com/video/2017/12/03/tom-hanks-it-concerns-me-how-much-trump-attacks-the-press/

  4. Ted, I just thought of a great idea — if it’s legal — for fundraising. How about

    [drumroll, followed by the sound of an envelope being torn open]

    A betting pool!

    — with a commission for the house on each bet, regardless of outcome. Maybe Sheldon Adelson could advise.

  5. @ Edgar G.:
    No, frankly, I’m not convinced any of this is coming from Trump. I suspect it’s all just more fake news. If what I suspect is true, the people who know aren’t talking and the anonymous sources who are allegedly talking are making it up. You realize that if it turns out not to be true, there is nobody to take responsibility for misleading the public. It’s like the weather. Does anybody ever take responsibility for the weather report being wrong, as it so often is? Is this news, or entertainment? I suspect, the latter.

  6. @ Cathy:

    I agree 100%. You are EXACTLY correct.in all points. It is only the Jews who retreat from already gained goals, allow themselves to be bullied and pushed around, and who want peace with implacable foes who thirst for their blood.

    What is this mishugas of the JEWS that they have the overwhelming need to be liked by their very worst and irredeemable foes. They certainly couldn’t stomach slobbering kisses on both cheeks a la Arafat. Any agreement giving Israel less than full control over all of Israel from the River to the Sea is useless and will provide toeholds for terror inside their own borders.

    And as for the Abu Dis crap. This is just because it has a vague connection to a suburb of Jerusalem. If they accept it, they will immediately change it’s name to “Jerusalem”. A law should be immediately passed naming the present Jerusalem as the sole legitimate possessor of that name in the whole area, and making any potential usurpation very illegal with huge economic penalties.

    And why should Israel “annex” any part of it’s own sovereign land. All the crap thrown around since 1922 should be garbaged and then proceed directly following the terms of the Mandate, to the letter.

    At the same time, $40,000 modern homes in Jordan, citizenship, jobs, education, medical etc all the trappings of a modern state is not easily tuned down, and in my opinion, after some grey-beard grumbling, won’t be.

  7. Let’s say Trump does declare Jerusalem Israel’s capital, and Abbas says “that’s the end of the peace process.” OK, then what do the Palestinians do? If they refuse to make a deal or negotiate, they are totally lost. Their entire “movement” is over.

  8. Abbas in any event is a dead man walking. His age and poor health means he will be around for only a short and limited time. Seems Hamas now is jockeying for complete takeover of the whole PA as soon as Abbas is out of the picture….Once they do that their takeover of Jordan a matter of time….. Abbas lends international credibility to the PA but Hamas will have support of Iran and probably Russia and China……. They will be supporting Hamas takeover of Jordan just as they are now doing in Syria. Will Turkey side with Hamas and Iran? Based on the above scenario even with the current semi enemy in Jordan it might be wiser to Keep the little king in power at least for now.

  9. one name seems to be missing? it’s them who rule the roost. them who decide if any plan lives or dies ‘u s State Department.’ if this thought was to go through what will u s s d do in the afternoon? having looked out the window in the morning.
    what anti-Semitic crap can they come up with, could they at least blame ISRAEL suggesting the water flushes the wrong way on their s***?

  10. Sounds great, but what is a state without sovereignty? Is this basically the emirates plan put forward by Dr. Kedar? Also wonder why Abu Dis? How would this change the Jewish cities near Abu Dis? Anyway, Pres. Trump should move the embassy, recognize Jerusalem as Israel’s capital, and stare down the threats of the Arabs. They lost the wars with Israel, and as the Victory Caucus proclaims, the loser does not dictate terms. It’s either the PA accept what they are offered, or face deportation or the power of the IDF. If the PA is really for peace, they would accept such a plan. But if their real goal remains, as they’ve stated. to destroy Israel and take over the land, they need to face real consequences. We’ve played their game long enough. It has to end now.

  11. Any type of ‘state’ is unacceptable. Israel’s government is being bribed… as has been the case since 1947.

    The plan to officially implement the 1922 Partition and recognize ‘Jordan’ as ‘Palestine’ must become official policy. The problem is with the many large bureaucracies that have been created over the years, such as COGAT, whose employees and directors prefer dhimmitude to sovereignty.

    The ‘Jordan Option’ conference was a good start… a noble effort. How can it be continued, turned into official policy? I don’t see a mechanism by which this can happen. And I don’t see a large enough base of people who’re willing to do what would be necessary to change things here in this corrupt country.

  12. OK, so if Wednesday rolls on by and Trump does neither then we will know how much stock to put in rumors.