Peloni: A most amusing discussion in this report with John Erath who claims that nothing has changed, even as Zel has changed his demand for preconditions for peace talks to no demands for peace talks. One might read between the lines to understand that what is intended by this is that nothing has changed because Washington hasn’t agreed to it, but we will see. Notably, as this change in the Ukrainian line in the sand so to speak, comes in lock step with the continued loss of land which has been in place over the past six plus months now, and of course this does not speak to Ukraine’s unresolved issues of limited men and munitions. Hence, while Zel’s pitch for peace has clearly changed, many things have not, and these other things will not strengthen Zel’s position at the peace table, even as the West appear to continue to be trying to keep him from doing as a despot what failed to do while he was president and what he ran upon as a candidate, namely seeking peace.
@Sebastien
Yes, I agree. I would also suggest people to review Ukrainian periodicals over the past decade (the ones which haven’t been purged in any case) as well as the works by Nicolai N. Petro, Richard Sakwa, and Ivan Katchanovski, just to name a few important sources.
@Michael Correcting myself. OK, so five. Should I have put “Zel” in quotes? The previous marionette did the first 3 when it was his gig.
“Richard Dreyfuss in “Moon Over Parador” 1988 Movie Trailer”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a123Dpj6Tq8
—
“History tends to appear twice, first in the movies and then in life.” – GW Hegel (if he had seen the future) as quoted by K. Marx (if he’d had half the sense of humor as his glorious namesake.)
Here’s another relevant one:
“Canadian Bacon (1995) Movie Trailer [VHS]”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BaR5DxgY-c
Both from the era before the left completely lost its sense of humor
(as well as its rabbit ass, collectivist hive mind, in general).
@Michael
My comment: So what status has Zel earned, “unindicted war criminal?” 😀
Look at the links Felix has sent a few times, from the BBC, when it was neutral during the 8 years that Zel bombarded civilians in the Donbas before they seceded and joined the Russian Federation, at which point it became an attack on Russia.
Felix changed my mind with those even if he annoys me with his hyperbole and invective.
Man, it’s a good thing I am only swayed by policies and not personal considerations (you notice I didn’t say, ‘personalities,”) or I’d vote for ANYBODY but Trump out of pique because he should fire whoever is in charge of his PR campaign. EVERY F*’ing day, I have to delete, unsubscribe, mark as spam, emails from the Trump campaign, to no avail.
You know, it’s a myth that whoever raises more money wins. Ross Perot and Howard Dean proved that.
You have to have enough money to get your message out there, but enough self-restraint not to annoy people (I should follow my own advice 😀 . ) . Who doesn’t hate advertising? People who could watch movies for free, pay extra, just to not be bombarded with ads. People like me. Not that I don’t appreciate offers of gifts of mugs, teeshirts and being flattered that the “Once and Future [Pres] * ” of America wants MY advice, before he can go forward with his day. 😀
On the whole:
“But for the honor of the thing, I’d rather walk.” – old Abe ( in comparing being elected President with being tarred, feathered, and ridden out of town on a rail.) 😀
—
* “The Once and Future King is a collection of fantasy novels by T. H. White about the legend of King Arthur. It is loosely based upon the 1485 work Le Morte d’Arthur by Sir Thomas Malory. It was first published in 1958 as a collection of shorter novels that were published from 1938 to 1940, with some new or amended material. The title refers to a legend that Arthur will one day return as king.[2]” – Wikipedia
My comment: ‘Ya know. Something like Elvis. Or Jim Morrison. Or Abbie [Abbie Hoffman.] 😀 But for real. Election-fraud willing. [ ’70s counter-culture humor]
“Free speech is the right to shout theater in a crowded fire.” – Abbie Hoffman 😀
@Peloni
Hi, Adam
By “Ukraine”, I assume you mean “Zelenskyy”. I personally don’t think his wishes will figure in to things. President Trump would not have made his “I can end this war in 24 hours” comment, long ago, if he wasn’t sure he had the ability to follow through on the promise.
Zelenskyy is completely dependent on the Biden Crime Family, which currently controls the US and NATO. Take away Biden Crime, Inc., replace it with MAGA, and the shooting stops — if Putin agrees with it.
President Trump, when elected, holds all the cards. He can easily defeat the Russians, just by restoring American industrial power (which Biden seems to have sold out to the Chinese).
The simplest solution to the fighting, as you have said, is a Korean “DMZ” sort of arrangement. This is because both the Russians and Ukrainians are depleted, and wanting to get out of the mess; and a “cease fire in place” can be fully implemented at a moment’s notice (“24hours”).
This “DMZ” solution leaves both the Russians and Ukrainians to work out outstanding issues, such as:
1. Putin has earned his status as an indicted war criminal, by his deliberate, repeated targeting of purely civilian targets. The quickest solution to this dilemna, is that Putin fall out of a window, or if his airplane falls out of the sky. In Russia, these things are always possible.
2. Zelenskyy knows everything Biden & Co. have been up to, as well as “the Blob” who prop him up. Given the right incentive, he can be given “singing lessons”, and coo like a canary; or perhaps he, too, will somehow fall from the sky.
All the pro-Putin moralizing that Peloni and others here have been spouting, can be tossed into the same dustbin as the “Pro-Ukrainian” machine. They are alike of no real basis and no real value.
I came across a good interview, with a man who has actually been intimately involved in this whole situation. It is worth a viewing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1CUjLW4vzw
Zelelnsky has now put forward a Ukrainian peace plan.
It is widely reported that the NATO countries, including the US, are engaged in secret negotiations with Russia to work out a joint formula for peace in Ukraine. The plan is not to issue a joint peace proposal, which would anger many people in both Russia and the NATO countries and cause a loss of face for many people on both sides, but for each side to make public similar propsals.
There is a strong desire on both sides to put the Russia-Ukraine war behind them. Among other reasons for wanting this, the war and the sanctions that the Western block has found it necessary to impose on Russia, in order to prevent further Russian advances against NATO member countries, has had serious impacts on the price of oil , copper, gold, and rare earths that are vital to the economies of both sides.
It is said that Ukraine will never agree to renounce its claim to Crimea and all the territories that Russia ceded to Ukraine during the Yeltsin administration ceded to Ukraine (with certain reservations and caveats) in 1991. However, it is also said in the internet “park” that Ukraine may be willing to accept an armistice agreement, similar to the one in place on the Korean pensinsula, that would put off a final resolution of Russia and Ukraine’s territorial disputes to a future peace conference to be held some time in the future.
All of the Internat sources I have been able to consult suggest that that the NATO alliance, Ukraine, and Russia all want the war to end. Of course as always “the devil is in the details.”
@Sebastien
To be honest, after he arrested his opposition, and then the priesthood, I anticipated that Zel might void the election and rule by fiat. Zel, however, held back from doing so til last year.
I knew Zel could never win the election, and would likely have lost even if the war came to a point of being left frozen. This is because the Ukrainians were war weary before Russia entered the fray, and since then, the nation as a whole has been devastated. Additionally, there is no political barometer which might find support for Zel having failed so badly at doing everything he ran on, which was not limited to the seeking of peace with the Dombas. So if elections had been held, Zel would have gone the way of Poroshenko, and do recall that Poroshenko tried to void the 2019 election with the 2018 Kerch Straits Incident, the follow-up of which he declared marshal law which would have prevented the elections. Even as Poroshenko was forced by the nation’s Supreme Court to truncate the period of the marshal law so the 2019 election proceeded, this still prevented all the refugees not in Ukraine from being able to vote in the 2019 election, and thereby disenfranchised the ethnic Russians outside of Ukraine. This wasn’t enough to save Poroshenko, however, and this example was likely not lost on Zel when he cancel the election.
In any event, about a year ago, everything began to change with the collapse of the Summer Offensive. Zel had been stating that if he received enough funding from the US, in addition to what they were already sending him, elections would be held – like Trump said, always a salesman. After the dismal performance of Ukraine in that offensive, however, Zel came out and amusingly announced that it “was not a good time for elections”. This created quite a stir in Ukraine from those such as the Mayor of Kiev who had anticipated being the next candidate to likely disapoint and betray the people of Ukraine.
The West faked displeasure with Zel’s decision, but the truth is that the West need Zel as much as he needs them. Zel is their war salesman, something which Trump discussed recently, and the West provide Zel with their protection, mind you not from Russia so much as from the Ukrainian zealots who are not at all pleased with Zel’s performance as warmonger in chief.
Also, his refusal to step down is unconstitutional, of course, and even if the election could not be held, which was dispelled by Zel himself in stating if he received a big enough prize he could do it, the head of the Ukrainian parliament should be leading the nation. This is why Zel replaced the head of the parliament with his own personal lacky just shortly before the election was supposed to be held.
So, yes, I have been watching this sad tragedy unfold for some time now and the one thing which has surprised me in all of this is how the West condemned the dictator Putin for having won a rigged election but still fawn over Zel for having not won the election he cancelled. At about the time of Zel’s recent election, he was interviewed by CBS, and I think the most challenging question he received was literally, what is your favorite color.
@Peloni (or should I address you as Granny?) The credit is due to you as I only looked after you informed us his term had ended. Thank you. How did you find out? Or did you just remember and do the math?
24 hours, as Trump said.
@Sebastien
Good find. In fact, if Zel had any popularity about which to boast, he would not have cancelled the election which would have made him eligible to take his turn in paying the butcher’s bill at the front line which he himself is responsible for having not avoided.
@Peloni
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cn007p39zdzo.amp
And then the rest of the article is about nobody cheering him anymore. Unintentionally funny. Does the author think nobody will delve past
the headline?
Israpundit can give whoever it wants a platform
It doesn’t now matter a great deal because I no longer consider it Israpundit a Zionist site.
As regards Zionism anybody who even suggests much less states any support for NeoCon ideology and practice should be drummed out of the Zionist movement.
Examples
Laura
Example…”“Seeking Peace” by that you mean Zelensky surrendering his nation to Russia. The only worse people in the world than Russians are muslims.”
Another example from same person…”The Russians are crazy fuckers. Yet we’re told these imperialist war mongering, genocidal lunatics are the victims. I would never negotiate with them since they will renege in time. Ukraine should never have given up its nukes for what has turned out to be a fake security guarantee.”
Such people with such reactionary views should be separated from Zionism
My considered opinion
In my comment 7 please understand that should be “In fact with inverted at front
Peloni
Please don’t be trying to teach your granny how to suck eggs.
I don’t plan on taking lessons from you because you have only managed so far to give other Imperialists and Fascists their reactionary platform
@Felix
It is even more complicated than this. The Minsk treaties were obligatorily to have been implemented. That was the basis of ending the war in the Dombas back in 2014 with Minsk I and in 2015 with Minsk II, when the Ukrainian army was encircled and about to be destroyed twice six months apart. When the Minks treaties were manipulated in bad faith by the West and Ukraine, Putin first threatened the West with extending Russian citizenship to those in the affected areas who wished to apply for it. When the West continued to refuse to make good on implementing the Minsk accords, Putin made good on his threat. Hence, by the beginning of 2022 when the shelling began, a significant part of the population had taken up the Russian citizenship offer. Somewhere around one fifth to one third of the people being bombarded were recognized as Russian citizens. Hence, when Russia recognized the nation states of Lughanz and Donetz, as the US had done with Kosovo, and acted upon the treaty with these nations, he was also acting in support of those Dombassers who already held Russian passports, ie Russian citizens. This detail is almost uniformly overlooked, but it should be recognized that after Putin began made much of the Dombas Russian citizens, it placed an even greater burden upon him when the Western proxy army began shelling the Dombas again in earnest at the beginning of 2022. It would have been quite difficult for him politically to have done as he did in 2014 in abandoning them to their fate.
Remember these are the same Neocons who are aiding Hamas against Israel. That must be kept at the forefront of our thinking.
Following what really happened and why?
fact, as early as February 16, Joe Biden knows that the Ukrainians began to shell the civilian populations of Donbass, putting Vladimir Putin in front of a difficult choice: to help Donbass militarily and create an international problem or to sit idle and watch Russian speakers. from the Donbass being run over.
If he decides to intervene, Vladimir Putin can invoke the international obligation of “ Responsibility To Protect ” (R2P)
THESE PLOTTERS RECKONED ON RUSSIA INVADING
Biden anticipated Russia going in to stop civilians being bombarded
That is how he was boastful on this point
Biden was working hand in glove with Right Sector and Azov
The Russian army has a duty to cross over to rescue civilians.
https://scheerpost-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/scheerpost.com/2022/04/09/former-nato-military-analyst-blows-the-whistle-on-wests-ukraine-invasion-narrative/amp/?amp_gsa=1&_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQIUAKwASCAAgM%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=17202987825231&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Fscheerpost.com%2F2022%2F04%2F09%2Fformer-nato-military-analyst-blows-the-whistle-on-wests-ukraine-invasion-narrative%2F
This article provides numbers of shells hitting Donbas civilians on day to day basis mid February 2022
Provided by the OSCE
@Laura
This is simply not true. He became a war president because he abandoned his attempts at making peace, and this did not come in 2022, but at the end of 2019 and the beginning of 2020, not even a full year into his 5yr term in office which he has now outlived. In October of 2019, Zel named a close friend of his, Sergei Sivokho, to become an advisor to the powerful NSDC, the Ukrainian form of the NSA which controls the inward and outward security situation of Ukraine. This was approximately the same period in which Zel tried to move his troops back from the line of scrimmage at Zolote for which his life was threatened by the likes of Dimtri Zorash, some in his army, and at least one member of his own parliament.
In any event, Sivokho intended to reunite the people and thereby grow peace from the street upwards. Zel endorsed the plan and there was a great deal of anticipation about its potential. Yet, during the presentation in which the announcement was made, Sivokho was attacked by the Nazi street thugs. There was no police presence to protect him, despite the position to which he had been appointed, and even after his speech was cut short due the unopposed bullying tactics of his attackers, there was no arrest made, even though the event was recorded. Following this, rather than supporting Sivokho further, Zel quietly removed him from his position in the govt. And that was the final act of Zel’s peace initiative, two years before there was any threat of Russia invading Ukraine, which came about following the reignition of the war within Ukraine which Zel was suppose to have solved.
What is more is that the moment Trump was out of office, Zel began to make highly volatile threats towards Russia and raised a force of over 100,000 NATO armed, trained and funded forces on the border with Russia, as they began savaging the population of the Dombas. He had his former peace emissary, who negotiated the prisoner swap at the end of 2019, arrested and his property seized. All of these actions took place well before Russia’s recognition of Lughanz and Donetz and its subsequent invasion, and none of this was in pursuit of peace by the peacemaker Zel, who had by this time redressed himself to be the warmonger Zel.
The truth is that Zel abandoned all attempts at peace to satisfy the Nazi’s who threatened his life after Zolote, and he never looked back. His rumped nation and his slaughtered people have carried the burden of that choice, even as I have made the case that Zel is in a bit of a thorny position with the Nazis on one side, the Nationalists on the other, and the Americans on another – it would be difficult to part company with anyone of them, and yet Zel would have had to do so with all of them to have fulfilled his promises of making peace. So instead of betraying these forces, he betrayed his own people.
Notably, with Trump and his peace plan coming in November, I can appreciate that Zel is looking into what may and may not be possible. Hopefully he will choose a path to end the carnage, but I doubt he will find a way to do so today any more than he did in the early months of the war or in the months leading upto the war. Time will tell of course.
He became a war president through no fault of his own as Russia invaded his country. Why is this difficult to grasp?
According to at least one pro-Ukrainian source that I have not been able to relocate since I first read it on Youtube, the International Criminal Court has ‘indicted” as many as 17 Russian military and political leaders and charged them with “crimes against humanity.” As some of my fellow commenters have pointed out, Russia is not a signatory to the Rome treaties that gave thiscourt and gave it jurisdiction over war crimes and crimes against humanity, and thus is not legally subject to its jurisdiction. But that doesn’t mean anything to the judges of this court, who were mainly appointed to governments that disapprove of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.
Among the specific charges levelled against Russia are deliberately destroying Ukraine’s electrical grid, thereby depriving millions of Ukrainians of electricity and heat even during Ukraine’s cold winters; deliberately bombing scities with no significant military targets in them; deliberately targeting civilian apartment buildings; deliberately targeting hospitals and health clinics for bombing; indescriminate shelling of towns and villages with civilian populations, knowing that this will cause many civilian deaths and injuries (the nonstop shelling of Kharkiv is cited as an example Allegedly, this is what led to Putin’s recent dismissals of numerous Ukrainian generals and ministry of defense officials. These are said to be people who were either indicted for war crimes, and even included some who urged Putin to resign in ordere to take the heat off Russia.Putin is said to have fired both of these groups of officials and military officers.
I would like to stress that I am not saying whether any of this is true. Only what, as my grandmother used to say, “that is what they are saying in the park. And if it isn’t true, why are they saying it in the park?
@Laura
By this I mean exactly that Zel ran as the peace candidate promising to become the peace president, only to become the war president which actually did away with every democratic norm in Ukraine, even to the bizarre extent that Ukraine ever had democratic norms to begin with. There was no need to surrender one foot of Ukraine had he acted on the promises which gave him the votes which he manipulated into taking his country to war and upon which he has refused to provide his people any voice in holding him accountable for doing so.
As Zel loses more and more of his country’s soil day after day, the rump he has been able to hold onto, even with his despotic grasp on the nation, is less than the day before. It is time for him to put action behind the words he spoke in 2019 when he ran to be the servant of the people, to seek out peace and to bring what remains of his country together, and stop pretending that Ukraine ever had any chance of defeating Russia beyond the American designed economic war which failed to achieve its goal of crushing Russia. Should he fail to act on this recent public boast of wanting peace, and I personally have every expectation that he will fail to do so in spectacular fashion, the despot in the green shirt will continue to bring death and destruction to the reducing nation known as Ukraine, even as Zel himself will feel none of the hardships, none of the losses, and none of the slaughter which he has won for his country and countrymen alone to bear.
Hopefully, he will prove me wrong, but I doubt he has the freedom to do so, even if he had the will to do so. But we will see.
“Seeking Peace” by that you mean Zelensky surrendering his nation to Russia. The only worse people in the world than Russians are muslims.
A third of Russians back Putin nuking Ukraine with major support
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/a-third-of-russians-back-putin-nuking-ukraine-with-major-support/ss-BB1pt62q?ocid=msedgntp&pc=HCTS&cvid=2540a4fe39fe4837939aed4fa119af53&ei=29
The Russians are crazy fuckers. Yet we’re told these imperialist war mongering, genocidal lunatics are the victims. I would never negotiate with them since they will renege in time. Ukraine should never have given up its nukes for what has turned out to be a fake security guarantee.