Shipment of aerial anti-armor missiles stopped after White House, State Department learned that IDF requested transfer directly from Pentagon without asking for their approval, according to Wall Street Journal report.
Yitzhak Benhorin, YNET, 08.14.14, 08:13
WASHINGTON – The US administration has halted a shipment of Hellfire aerial anti-armor missiles to Israel, the Wall Street Journal reported on Wednesday, citing government sources.
The sources noted that Israel had requested the transfer of ammunitions directly from the Pentagon, without receiving the approval of the White House or State Department officials.
“We were blindsided,” one US diplomat said, while a US defense official insisted that “there was no intent to blindside anyone. The process for this transfer was followed precisely along the lines that it should have.”
According to the sources, White House officials were concerned about Israel’s use of artillery, instead of precision-guided munitions in the more densely populated areas in the Gaza Strip.
The Journal reports Israel requested money for more Iron Dome interceptors from the US Defense Department mere days after the ground incursion into Gaza began. While Israeli officials told the Americans Israel had enough interceptors for the current Gaza operation, they said it wanted to replenish its stocks.
According to the Journal, the Obama administration, with Israel’s consent, decided not to seek emergency funding, and instead hold the Congress vote on the $225 million military aid proposal in the fall.
While the White House had no qualms about supplying Israel with the defensive, non-lethal Iron Dome interceptors, the Journal reports Israel took another route to secure $3 million worth of lethal munitions, including 120-mm mortar shells and 40-mm illuminating rounds.
The request, made by Israel’s Defense Ministry to the US military, was approved without needing or seeking the approval of President Barack Obama or Secretary of State John Kerry, officials told the Journal. At the same time, the standard review process was properly followed.
After the shipment of the 120-mm and 40-mm rounds caught the White House by surprise, the Pentagon was instructed to put another arms shipment to Israel – a large number of Hellfire missiles – on halt and the administraction instructed all of its defense agencies to consult with the White House and State Department before approving any additional arms requests from Israel, the Journal reported.
A US official told the paper that “the decision to scrutinize future transfers at the highest levels amounted to the United States saying ‘The buck stops here. Wait a second… It’s not OK anymore.'”
Meanwhile, Israel pushed to expedite the money for Iron Dome interceptors in Congress, telling lawmakers the money was urgently needed because they were running out of interceptors.
Diplomatic battles
While the Israeli and American militaries worked well together, the paper describes a long line of diplomatic battles between the Obama administration and the Israeli government led by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, noting relations between the two countries have reached another low point.
An Israeli official told the newspaper that the rift between Israel and the US has now deepened: “We’ve been there before with a lot of tension with us and Washington. What we have now, on top of that, is mistrust and a collision of different perspectives on the Middle East.”
Obama and Netanyahu reportedly had a “particularly combative” phone call on Wednesday.
US officials are quoted by the Journal as saying the current Gaza conflict has “persuaded them that Mr. Netanyahu and his national security team are both reckless and untrustworthy.”
Meanwhile Israeli officials view the Obama administration as “weak and naive” and are working to bypass the White House, working with allies in Congress and elsewhere in the US administration instead.
The Israeli officials told the Journal Netanyahu isn’t worried about the tensions with the Obama administration and that he believews he can simply “wait out” Obama’s term, while relying on the strong support for Israel in Congress until then.
Netanyahu is said to have used his influence in the Pentagon, Congress and lobby groups in Washington to defuse the US administration’s pressure on Israel during the Gaza operation.
American officials note that while Netanyahu told them he was interested in a ceasefire, the two allies clashed over which players would take part and how to go about achieving one.
On July 25, Kerry sent Israel a draft proposal for a ceasefire, intending for the Israeli government to propose changes. Officials told the Journal that Netanyahu presented the draft to his cabinet for a vote, against the Americans’ wishes and in breach of protocol. The draft was also leaked to the Israeli media.
US officials told the paper they believed “the Israeli government publicly mischaracterized Mr. Kerry’s ideas with the intent of buying more time to prosecute the fight against Hamas” because they were angry the secretary of state reached out to Qatar and Turkey – Hamas’ allies – for their help in securing the ceasefire. While Israel and Egypt sought to sideline Qatar and Turkey’s influence with Hamas, the Americans viewed them as the only players that could convince Hamas to agree to a ceasefire.
Tensions flared again when Israeli officials leaked to the press that Netanyahu told US Ambassador to Israel Dan Shapiro that the Obama administration was “not to ever second-guess me again” about how to deal with Hamas, the paper reported.
In a punitive action, the administration decided to require White House and State Department approval for any munitions request by Israel, even routine ones. This would slow the approval process and signal to Israel the military assistance it took for granted was now closely scrutinized, according to the Journal.
Israel’s Ambassador to the US Ron Dermer said the allegations raised by the US officials to the paper were “unfounded.”
“Israel deeply appreciates the support we have received during the recent conflict in Gaza from both the Obama administration and the Congress for Israel’s right to defend itself and for increased funding of Iron Dome,” Dermer told the Journal.
Meanwhile, senior political officials in Israel argued Netanyahu and Dermer were responsible for the worsening of the relations between Israel and the US administration.
“We all remember how they went behind Obama’s back to help candidates during elections,” they said, adding that “Netanyahu is responsible for this situation.”
yamit82 Said:
May I ask ,with all the humility I can muster, how was G.W. Bush anti-Semitic ? I know he supported the nonsense of a two state solution, but so did various Israelis. But I now realize that peace only comes through the muzzle of a gun.
I have addressed many questions to you lately that have gone unanswered. I fear Dagmar is consuming all you time, should I be jealous. I hope, since I am an American with the IQ of a gnat, a well spoken gnat, I don’t pester like a gnat. As for dear, dear Max, he’s gnat meat.
Max Said:
No, I flunked English grammar. Still graduated cum laude, from what some consider a good university. 😉
According to who???
I prefer a corvette or a Porsche
@ CuriousAmerican:
Israel and the United States have agreed to a weapons stockpiling deal that will store $800 million worth of American-made arms and military equipment on Israeli soil.
According to a report in the weekly paper Defense News, the Obama administration previously mapped out a plan that would place $400 million worth of military arsenal in Israel, but that project was exactly doubled after a meeting in between the Israeli military’s technology and logistics branch, and Rear Adm. Andy Brown, logistics director of the US Army European Command.
“[w]artime emergencies warranting Israeli use of such weaponry typically require Israel to reimburse Washington under Foreign Military Sales procedures,” but that, conveniently for Israel, “[r]eimbursement costs are funded through annual U.S. military grant aid to Israel.”
Washington believes that “[American] economics and inflation were taking their toll on the Israel-based prepositioning,” thereby limiting – in relative terms – the procurement of weapons caches by the Israeli government, up until this point.
American stockpile value in Israel began with “a starting ceiling of $100 million that quickly grew to $300 million following the 1991 war in Iraq … Under the new agreement, Israel not only gains access to more US stockpiles, but enjoys greater latitude in the categories and specific types of weaponry it can request for in-country storage.”
Raytheon, a weapons manufacturer headquartered in Waltham, Massachusetts, is a prime contractor for US-administered arms deals with Israel. Among Raytheon’s arsenal of unconventional weapons is the 2.2-ton GBU 28 “bunker-buster,” “mini-nuke” bomb that was used against Iraq in 1991, and swiftly dispatched to Israel during the height of the 2006 attacks against Lebanon. The weapon can blast through 100 feet of earth and 20 feet of solid concrete. Israel was designated in 1998 as a “major non-NATO ally,” which “qualifies” the state to receive excess defense articles under Section 516 of the Foreign Assistance Act and Section 23(a) of the Arms Export Control Act.
@ yamit82:
I watched those vids:
The more ignorant the population, the easier they are to rule.
Maher gave the best depiction of the insanity of the general population being against medicare
“It’s like driving cross-country to protest against highways”
It’s a testament to the power of propaganda that you can convince a significant number,even a majority to protest something that helps them stay alive.
It’s mind-blowing – a jaw-dropping demonstration of the power of persuasion to convince the 99.9 percent to stay flattened.
yamit82 Said:
Wikipedia:
It may or may not be a problem that the length of this or any sentence affects your concentration but for sure the topic of personal growth as relating to maturity and development of reasoning ability and critical analysis is one in which both strikes a void in your consciousness and also, simultaneously fills you with fear and responding defense mechanisms as your subconscious, though not intellectually understanding the content recognizes a threat to it’s integrity because of the weakness of your own personal development.
( and there is a deliberate long but grammatically correct sentence for you – can you pass the test?).
Oh I can dumb it down for you but usually a sentence that takes me 60 seconds to type takes me two hours to break it down for the commoners and there is ROI for that.
….
In the realm of political thought about objective facts there is very little that is divorced from the human psyche. It is absolutely necessary to examine the psychological functioning and emotional level of the various thinkers, The psychological level is not something hidden, it is blatant. However the emotional level is often hidden to the speakers themselves, the more so as the greater their level of personal dysfunction.
There are levels of clarity and hierarchical levels of psychological attainment. In any discussion forum the foundation levels of all the speakers vary widely and very few have attained the higher levels. The higher levels can only be achieved through some process of self-challenge to sharpen or cultivate the mind. Those who do not engage in any such practice are ossified,stuck or often just lazy relying on social manipulations in their interactions rather than working at communication.
..
Though some like yourself protest that they cannot understand me, yet I can see the protestation is not neutral. I see my words reverberate in their heads like worms and do their work and someday the barriers may come crashing down.
Keep on trucking, you will get there yet.
AbbaGuutuu Said:
The True Clash of Civilizations
the British formed the Muslim Brotherhood in the 1920s in Egypt under Hasan al Bana and later a Saudi branch. Initially these tool was to be used against the Jews and for stirring the regional pot generally.
Muslim Brotherhood created by British Intelligence
AbbaGuutuu Said:
Maybe but it still “foolishness” and the average IQ of an American is equiv to a gnat.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZE0TuKTpo4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fys3MsKMpms
Max Said:
That has to be one of the longest run on sentences I’ve ever seen.
Are you trying to say: Ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny???? 🙂
I usually understand HB and almost never understand you.
She never uses run on sentences and her grammers is far superior than yours and her ideas are easy to understand unlike yours.
Still I like you Max probably because I don’t understand anything you post. 🙁
Comment in moderation.
AbbaGuutuu Said:
Ron Dermer? HA HA – Dermer was a Florida Republican and conservative party hack before moving to Israel and is still active and associated with the Republican party by the American Administration. Consequently he is the most ineffective Ambassador to America Israel ever had.
He is Persona non grata by all in the Obama Administration and nobody in authority will talk to him.
BB was warned by many NOT to appoint Dermer to that position but BB never listens to sage advice. He is always about domestic politics and how he thinks anything will benefit himself and his position as PM. BB wanted a yes man in Washington and he sent Dermer who threatened to leave BB and reveal all the dirt he had on BB, so BB caved and Dermer got his and Israel got the shaft.
Less than three months before American elections expect to see hundreds of American politicians making their pilgrimages to Israel getting photo-ops with BB and our Politicians, mandatory views with Iron Domes and Hamas tunnels.
Maybe some Jewish Money will find the way into their campaigns before November, it’s not Jewish voters, there aren’t enough anymore to be concerned about.
@ AbbaGuutuu:
They vote Republican and not Democratic and not enough to get anybodies attention. They didn’t even influence one of their own George W Bush to change his anti-Israel policies.
Petitions are always a waste of time unless mandated by law and the political system or, and Unless they are massive and party affiliated mostly on the congressional level and below. Seldom if ever at the presidential level. A few Jewish big Donors to the Democrat Party will have more influence than a few million stenciled signers of petitions who mot vote the opposition.
CUFI ploy to get headlines and maybe some donations for Hagee and his Buds.
How about a campaign to boycott the boycotters influenced by BDS movement? How about a campaign to Buy Made In Israel products?
How about a drive to visit Israel to makeup for the cancellations of tourists at this time?
There are many practical and helpful things CUFI could do if they were seriously a pro-Israel supporting Lobby.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NUylyDsE-c
Some conservatives’ are heading towards Israel tomorrow (Sunday)to show their solidarity.
From Sunshine State News:
“Bankson, Santorum and their group will head to Israel to show American support for that nation during the current crisis in Gaza and to offer prayers for peace. Most of their time will be spent in Jerusalem. They are scheduled to meet with Ron Dermer, the Israeli ambassador to the United States. “
From CNN:
“According to a press release with details of the trip, Santorum will mostly be in Jerusalem and is set to visit an Iron Dome facility. He’s also scheduled to meet with government and military leaders, as well as Israeli Ambassador to the U.S. Ron Dermer.
The delegation includes Bob Vander Plaats, president of The Family Leader, a social conservative group in Iowa, and Foster Friess, a wealthy conservative donor who backed Santorum’s 2012 presidential run.
In addition to Iowa, others in the delegation hail from South Carolina, Florida, Michigan, Alabama and Wyoming.”
Max Said:
in your honor and with all my heart, Darlin, you’re forgiven: http://youtu.be/mbH60wCO-Yw
honeybee Said:
Just shout “Long Live Texas1” and you can wipe out reality.
Max Said:
Ahhhhhhhh Sugar, you’re breaking my heart!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
honeybee Said:
That is NOT a personal attack. Your level of psychological function is so low that you are on the intellectual level of a slug.
And that is not a personal attack either – it is an accurate description of how you present yourself.
If you simply call someone a slug then that is a personal attack – if if how they present themselves resemble the level of a slug and you have evidence , sensible observations that lead to conclusions then that is legitimate impartial critical thinking. It is not personal attack because is not addressing the person, the person is irrelevant, it is impartially addressing whomever would make the same statements in the same manner.
That’s the last time I wast my time replying to your identity. , I refuse to address your low level of dysfunctional irrationality anymore , it’s waste of time. People like yourself and they are far too many of your type, do nothing to advance your personal growth you remain forever stuck on a flat dead plain and yous suck the effort and life out of others with you personal laziness and lack of courage to advance yourselves.
honeybee Said:
I agree!!! Sometimes our frankness or forthrightness is mistakenly taken by some as “foolishness”.
Max Said:
Personal attack Max !! Darlin !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
CuriousAmerican Said:
Abandonment of Israel is willful murder. Making an America politician correct with Europe and Britain is destroying America.
You don’t have the backbone to call a thing what it is. SO your aggression turns against those who do and against yourself – you are just another dysfunctional victim.
@ AbbaGuutuu:
Well Sweetness, Americans are not as dumb as Max thinks we are.
honeybee Said:
It is clear as to who the enemies of Israel are in USA.
I like the poll about youngsters (unexpected surprise). Thanks Darlin!!! 🙂
honeybee Said:
I posted it as I found it among my emails. Israel is not alone and will not be alone!!! “The Keeper of Israel won’t slumber nor sleep”!!! This too shall pass!!!!! 🙂
@ AbbaGuutuu:
this may be of interest: http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2014/08/15/Poll-Americans-Slam-Obama-s-Israel-Policy
@ AbbaGuutuu:
I received this today, I was going to post it but you’re quicker.
CUFI’s (Christians United for Israel with over million members) demand that President Obama Stop Blocking Weapons for Israel.
Its members have received the following:
Dear ————-
We were shocked to read reports in the Wall Street Journal, the Times of Israel and other reliable sources that President Obama has blocked delivery of critical weapons to Israel in the middle of a war. If these reports are true, they mark a new low point in our relationship with Israel.
The President acknowledges that Israel has a right to defend itself from Hamas rocket fire. And the United States government has long recognized Hamas as a terrorist organization. Thus it defies logic, strategy and decency to learn that the President may be denying Israel the very weapons it needs to defend itself from these terrorists.
We have prayed that President Obama would bring greater moral clarity to his discussion of Israel’s struggle against Hamas. We have encouraged Secretary of State John Kerry to remember that Israel, not Hamas, is our ally in the region. Now we’re seeing this moral confusion bear the bitter fruit of dangerous policy.
Demand that the Obama Administration stand with Israel!
Tell President Obama to stop blocking weapons to Israel!
We must not let this dangerous policy pass in silence.
Blessings to you and those you love,
Pastor John Hagee
Chairman
Christians United for Israel
David Brog
Executive Director
Christians United for Israel
CuriousAmerican Said:
Histrionics are Max’s ” stock and trade”!!!!!!!! When lacks a credible arguments he shouts his opponent down. It is best to ignore his tantrums!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Depriving Israel of weapons is not murder. It is abandonment. Obama is a fellow traveler to Islam. Not good for USA or Israel.
But histrionic descriptions only hurt Israel’s case.
You are not reading Obama rightly. He does not want to destroy America. He wants to a politically correct equality with the rest of the planet.
He is not so much malicious as misguided by a false philosophy.
Why is the US Government storing missiles in Israel?
Just curious! Seriously!
@ AbbaGuutuu:
Your most welcome !!!!!!!!!!!
honeybee Said:
Thanks Dear HB. I read all of it. It is worth reading.
@ AbbaGuutuu:
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/0814/colon081314.php3
Withholding arms from Israel in time of war against terrorist Hamas amounts to helping the terrorists. This what anti-Semites wish and do.
“Hamas is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Muslim Brotherhood, which is an outgrowth of the German Nazi Party. The brotherhood was founded in 1928 by Hassan al-Banna, a close ally of Adolf Hitler. It worked hand in hand with Hitler during World War II, establishing the Muslim Waffen-SS Handschar division, which committed war crimes against Jewish communities. It then helped to rescue Nazi war criminals following the defeat of Nazism and the disclosure of the Holocaust.
…
Nor is the charter and the origin of Hamas merely past history. Current Hamas leaders frequently invoke the “blood libel,” accusing “the Jews” of killing Christian children and using their blood for the baking of matzo. They regard Jewish places of worship and Jewish schools, anywhere in the world, as appropriate targets for their terrorist attacks.
…
The same is true for those who argue that Hamas is preferable to ISIS or other Jihadist groups that might replace it. A similar argument was made by fascists who claimed that their parties were preferable to the Communists. The reality is that Hamas is an anti-Semitic organization, based on a Jew-hating philosophy, with the goal of destroying the nation state of the Jewish people and killing its Jewish inhabitants. It is evil personified. There is no excuse or justification for supporting Hamas, and anyone who does is supporting anti-Semitism.
…
It may be necessary to negotiate — directly or through intermediaries — with Hamas, just as one “negotiates” with kidnappers, hostage takers or extortionists. But to “recognize” their “legitimacy,” as Jimmy Carter and Bishop Tutu would do, is to recognize the legitimacy of anti-Semitism. Carter, Tutu and other Hamas cheerleaders may be willing to do that, but no reasonable person who hates bigotry should legitimate Hamas’ anti-Semitism or its express goal of destroying Israel and killing its Jewish inhabitants.”
Read more at: http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4609/supporting-hamas-antisemitic#
honeybee Said:
Birds of a feather flock together!!!!!!!!! 🙂
@ yamit82:
@ AbbaGuutuu:
@ bernard ross:
Have yawls ever considered that yawls might just be out smarten yawls selves ??????????? Not that I am not impressed by yawls smarts !!!!!
After more than a month of fighting Hamas, Israel is now negotiating with Hamas over the symbols of national political independence for Hamas in Gaza. Control of the borders, extended fishing rights, Sea and air port and free flow of Gazans through Israel and the right to work in Israel.
When BB voiced his support for a Palis State he may have not meant Gaza but Gaza is becoming under Hamas a full fledged Palis State and not Abbas PA.
The Arabs in Y&S see Hamas fighting and even winning against Israel through resistance with Missiles, tunnels and Rockets will eventually mostly side with Hamas in Gaza and seek to emulate their success in Y&S.
Hamas will fight to the last Gazan unless the leadership is threatened. They want to keep their political movement intact and alive more than anything else.
Nobody in the know in Israel and abroad understands the reticence of Israel for not eliminating the Hamas threat in the first week. We knew about the Tunnels but never moved against them from fear of retaliation by Hamas. We know where the Hamas leadership both military and political can be gotten to. We know we can take Gaza in two days and clean out the leadership in a week or two.
Seems to me besides the obvious disdain by Israel of ruling 1.8 million Arabs is it will force the Government of Israel to negotiate seriously a Palis State in Y&S and Gaza. Hamas in power is seen as a counterweight to that alternative.
bernard ross Said:
Any one who supports terrorists would be exposed and be out of business sooner or later. The truth shall prevail and not the lies of terrorists.
bernard ross Said:
It may be possible for BHO to have some means to ‘hurt’ Israel.
As USA is a constitutional republic, there is still check and balances. He is not a king. If he continues to act arbitrarily and unlawfully, even some from within his own party would resist him as they have already done on some issues.
AbbaGuutuu Said:
It also appears that the Israeli left is enthusiastic in facilitating that desire
the phoenix Said:
I was surprised by how the FAA ban affected Israel. it appeared to me to be a warning showing what can be done by obama. Israel appeared taken by surprise with no answer other than to ask to rescind the ban. There appear to be many ways that a US president can harm Israel of which we are unaware.
SHmuel HaLevi 2 Said:
I have found Yamit82 to be very limited in his “life experiences”. I sent him a recipe for fry bread, so perhaps he will broaden his horizons. I made very futile attempt to educated Max about Amer. Indian, but then any attempt to educate Max is futile. Glad to see you and yours are still ” up and at em” in spite of the rockets.
BB is not responsible for the hatred by the current US Administration against Israel/BB. One commentator said on one of the cable channels: “US did not want to fight with ISIL (ISIS) earlier in order to use it as a weapon to bring down the Iraqi Prime Minister (Al Maliki)”. I am not defending Al Maliki to stay in power. BB should be protected from the anger of BHO and his administration by those in Israel and abroad. It seems to me there is a desire by the US Administration to use Hamas or PA or other functions within the Israeli leadership to ‘bring down” BB if possible.
@ honeybee:
Yamit82 does not know about fried breads? We have to fix that serious limitation fast. 🙂 In my town there is a very successful true Mexican tortilla and related products company. They also make other true Native American specialties. Since the staff is on its majority Native Americans that settled here, they make fried breads as well, mostly for local consumption. I will ask if they could deliver out of town. That is not a bread that can be kept on hold for long.
About that car… In their Trading Posts one can find incredible relics for sale. Very expensive for sure.
SHmuel HaLevi 2 Said:
Thank you Senor HaLevi, I am fond of you also. Yamit82 never heard of “fry bread”, I told him to ask you about it. I purchased and old Santa Domingo plastic Thunderbird necklace at he flea market. The ones fro WWII that were made of plastic and sold to tourist. You can imagine what they are going for now. I purchase from an Indian woman [ Paiute] who gives me good discounts.
yamit82 Said:
Now are you complaining that Netanyahu is ” to combative”? You’re not easily pleased.
Max Said:
More troubling then Obama are those Jew with power and influence in the Democratic who fail to stand up against him. Feinstein, Boxer, Levin and Hollywood donors.
@ the phoenix:
Sometimes imagination runs wild… 🙂
We are very fond of the US and its people, I am on of them. Proud to be so.
I am sure that there are ways to convey a message to isolated members of the administration about the merits of having Israel, an ally, pleased with the relationship as it was. We, many times served as promoters for the sale of US military products to others. It would be very unpleasant if Israel would refrain from promoting US products.
SHmuel HaLevi 2 Said:
Could not agree with you more.
The only question is WHO will be the one to carry it out?
In an op ed in walla today, dan ayalon mumbles that “WE depend on u.s. And not the other way around”…
With this kind of mentality…. Let’s just say that I don’t see it happening anytime soon .
On Al sisi’s orders, Kerry was wanded 🙂 (I would have LOVED to see him frisked, or better yet, strip searched…) will shfanyahu even entertain such an idea ?
Ehm, I don’t think so.
Israeli official confirms US nixed arms sale; PM blamed for icy ties
A senior Israeli official confirmed to Israeli media that the US had suspended a shipment of Hellfire missiles to Israel amid worsening ties over fighting in Gaza.
WSJ report of frayed relations between Washington and Jerusalem, including combative Obama-Netanyahu phone call, sparks firestorm among Israeli politicians
Max Said:
Perhaps Obama has already done it – he let ISIS come to power – he knew it was happening and did nothing to stop it and did everything to facilitate it.
May I remind ourselves how Russia and even Egypt responded to the US and EU sanctions on them?
Inimical actions must be reciprocated in measure.
It looks like Obama is trying to murder Israel. He’s trying to do it in his last months of power.
Maybe Obama is going to try to drive the death spike into America as well in his last acts. He’s going to figure out a way to leave America defenseless to World Jihad or do something that starts America sliding on the way down.