By Ted Belman
I attended an all day conference in Tel Aviv today entitled The Arab Peace Initiative (API) – Current Status backed by the S Daniel Abraham Center for Strategic Studies and highlighting the Israel Peace Initiative (IPI). As you can imagine there were a lot of lefties there.
The IPI supports “the establishment of a Palestinian state on the West Bank and Gazaon the basis of the ’67 lines and territorial swaps on a 1:1 basis in limited scope.” The state will be “demilitarized with strict security measures on its borders.” And of course, Jerusalem to be divided and refugees to return only to Palestinian state with symbolic and agreed exceptions”
There is little difference between their plan and that of the API.
The predominant message at the conference was that the API is a great opportunity for Israel and shouldn’t be missed. Most speakers lamented the fact that it has been ignored by the Israeli government. They were despondent that their views were out in, guess what, left field.
They waxed eloquently on the benefits to be derived from accepting it and having normal business and diplomatic ties with all the Arab countries. No one worried that experience teaches us that we can’t trust Arab promises and commitments set out in any peace agreement. No one mentioned how the Arabs are dedicated to destroying Israel and Islam prohibits the establishment of a non Islamic state in Islamic lands.
Some of the memorable quotes, “Israel must accept either occupation or peace”, “Israel is endangered morally but not militarily or existentially”, |”peace will reduce cost of security”, “if we do nothing, then we will become an apartheid state”, the “desire for political gains prevents acceptance of API”, “the right is delusional because they are ignoring Israel’s ongoing delegitimation”, “we don’t want to become a bi-national state”, etc.
As for the Arabs, they accuse Israel of not wanting peace and not being a partner for peace. Gee that’s what we say about the Mahmud Abbas. As for the Arab Spring, one speaker thought it was good for achieving regional peace. Poor Abu Massen was pessimistic and so was one of the speakers who was the PA Min of Prisoner’s Affairs. “Arabs want peace, Israelis don’t”, Israel’s leaders are intransigent”
Everyone in the US and the EU fell in love with Fayyadism. He espoused building the economy and institutions first. But that was a dismal failure he said.
One professor talked about teaching his students the intricacies of the Khartoum Conference Resolution supporting the three “no’s”. He complained that they weren’t the slightest bit interested. To them it was irrelevant. Smart students.
But it must be said that the one thing notable about the API was that it offered recognition whereas this was rejected at Khartoum. That’s progress I guess.
“Arab human nature has begun to change”, “Arabs are no longer afraid to speak out”. “This will serve Israel well”.
Rabin once said “security is more important than peace”. One speaker then asked “what can be more important than ending the conflict”.
Col Adv Giad Sher, Co-Chairman of Blue White Future thought Israel should draw a map and should agree that what is agreed should be implemented rather than the old formula “nothing is agreed until everything is agreed”. Then he said that if we can’t reach agreement we should unilaterally separate. You will recall that Martin Sherman devastated this idea in The coming canard: ‘Constructive unilateralism’
I posed a “question”. The problem with the API is that it aims to replace UNSC Res 242 which is legally binding (which the API is not) and the basis of a negotiated peace. The API demands that 100 % of the territories be returned whereas Res 242 allows Israel the right to retain some of the land and to have defensible borders. I pointed out that Israel has already returned 90% of the territories and should be entitled to keep at least 10% of the remaining 10% which is only 1% of the original territories. I said if the API would be satisfied with 90% of what’s left then they would get the attention of the Israel government.
Dani Dayan was in the last panel and he let them have it. We have been worshipping at the alter of the two-state solution for 20 years and gotten nowhere. Another 20 years won’t change that. This solution is like a mirage, It looks good in the distance but disappears when you approach it. And pursuing this solution religiously prevents us from pursuing other solutions. Many in the audience were very vocal in their rejection of what he was saying and wouldn’t let him speak. Dayan said, “I am willing to leave the podium if you like.” That shut them up.
Dayan who quit his Yesha post to come out in support of Bibi in the last election said he honestly doesn’t know if Bibi is sincere in accepting the two state solution and he thinks about it a lot. He stressed that “the settlements have created an irreversible reality”.
Not a message the left wants to hear.
The IPI announced the results of a new poll.
– 36% of Hebrew speaking Israelis not familiar with the API
– 56% of those who were accept it.
– If Bibi recommends the deal deal along the lines of the API,69% would support it.
– Who do you prefer lead negotiations for a deal
Bibi 28%
Peres 24%
Livni 10%
Lapid 6%
Therefore, it is safe to conclude that the public want to end the conflict even on the terms of the API especially if Bibi recommends it. I don’t believe this for a minute. Many polls say otherwise.
The conference organizers said that rather than attack Bibi we should encourage him to make a deal.
yamit82 Said:
Yamit I watched these clips and others from barry chamish on youtube. What is his story? He is the biggest conspiracy theorist. He has peres killing rabin and sharon and as a vatican spy. He has ohlmert with atzmon connected with airport security at 911 plus lots more.
Ted Belman Said:
This poll is pure rubbish:
73% knew nothing of the API until the leftist pollsters explained it to them (LOLROF 🙂 )
A poll without specific questions but a conclusion that they all support BB (LOLROF 🙂 🙂 )
this looks like a bid to get uninformed support for anything that BB does.
@ yamit82:
Well Uncle I find your reasoning very compelling however, I have been saying all along no one is able to pinpoint exactly the reason for anti-Semitism.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This is envy: including economic comparisons of Jews with non-Jews that have resulted in a reaction of blaming Jews for economic situations
I guess this is the “fits all category”.
Bottom line, it’s time to put an end to it.
rongrand Said:
Most Jews in the last 200-300 years that have been exceptional and successful have been mostly Jews who have assimilated to such a degree that any connection with Jewishness is almost incidental, irrelevant and circumstantial.
The Jews of 17th- 20th century Poland and Russia were dirt poor, had no influence and yet they were hated.
In the late 19th century, the Jews of Germany denied “Choseness.” And then they worked on assimilation. Yet, the holocaust started there. b) Christians and Moslems profess to being the “Chosen people,” yet, the world and the anti-Semites tolerate them.
a) the Christian Bible says the Romans killed Jesus, though Jews are mentioned as accomplices (claims that Jews killed Jesus came several hundred years later). How come the accomplices are persecuted and there isn’t an anti-Roman movement through history? b) Jesus himself said, “Forgive them [i.e., the Jews], for they know not what they do.” The Second Vatican Council in 1963 officially exonerated the Jews as the killers of Jesus. Neither statement of Christian belief lessened anti-Semitism.
With the Enlightenment in the late 18th century, many Jews rushed to assimilate. Anti-Semitism should have stopped. Instead, for example, with the Nazis came the cry, in essence: “We hate you, not because you’re different, but because you’re trying to become like us! We cannot allow you to infect the Aryan race with your inferior genes.”
The overriding problem with this theory is that it is self-contradictory: Jews are not a race. Anyone can become a Jew – and members of every race, creed and color in the world have done so at one time or another.
Every other hated group is hated for a relatively defined reason. We Jews, however, are hated in paradoxes: Jews are hated for being a lazy and inferior race – but also for dominating the economy and taking over the world. We are hated for stubbornly maintaining our separateness – and, when we do assimilate – for posing a threat to racial purity through intermarriages. We are seen as pacifists and as warmongers; as capitalist exploiters and as revolutionary communists; possessed of a Chosen-People mentality, as well as of an inferiority complex. It seems that we just can’t win.
Now we know what are NOT the reasons for anti-Semitism.
watsa46 Said:
In every civilization in history the so-called civilized people lost to the barbarians along with their civilizations.
Lesson to be learned, even belatedly:
The Jews and Israel should be more like the barbarians.
Jewish proverb: It’s better to be a winner than a loser!!!
watsa46 Said:
Who said the JP has any credibility??
Why did the JP lend its credibility to this JUNK?
Like everywhere else in the world, the left is colluding with the enemies of IL.
Only after Islam reforms should we consider talking to the Muslim Arabs and then I would still not trust them.
The best solution is to annex J & S. Il will not impose an “Arab-rein” state. We are civilized people.
The Muslims of IL if they wish so much, should cross the Jordan river and be home.
The West can give them the money wasted in the UNRWA to relocate there.
@ Ted Belman:
A bit confusing but rather…
Personaly I feel left out. In 33 years not one of our family was ever called by the pollsters…
Not our immediate family and I have to believe them, not any of our many uncles, aunts, cousins, nephews and nieces in Israel either. Some 70 people.
Hmmm
Here is the new poll.
@ yamit82:
Yamit (Uncle Nahum), I agree.
History of the Jews does not provide us with any acts against humanity or their fellow citizens. They have done no wrong.
Envy of the those who are smart and successful is a sin and I believe the root of anti-Semitism.
Last week our 12 year old granddaughter said an older man, a Holocaust survivor spoke to her class and she said he looked like both her Pop Pops, my bald head and her other Pop Pop with a mustache. Great, good to know I resemble someone.
She said he talked about what happened in Germany. My son added Hitler was a divider. He knew the Jews being smart and successful stood in his way and he was able to convince the Germans Jews were the enemy. Their success was the reason for their failures. Germany would rise to greatness with them out of the way.
Just think for a moment. Had he employed the talent of the Jews rather than building a war machine Germany may have risen to greatness. What an idiot.
Now the Jews have returned home and are using their talents to better the world and their neighbors are envy and want to destroy them.
Something wrong with this picture.
Salomon Benzimra Said:
TSS is a religion – its not subject to the need for empirical proof. People of such a disposition believe in peace like some people believe in fairy tales or in whatever they need to feel better about themselves. For them, the fact it will never work is in fact is its greatest attraction.
yamit82 Said:
If we knew why the world hates the Jews, it could be solved. Its one of those things in life no one understands, like the weather. Its just there.
yamit82 Said:
My friend, why do you think Israel is investing billions in security on the home front? Sderot has illustrated the Arabs can make life unbearable for Israelis. 200,000 enemy missiles are not something to be ignored especially when you don’t control the territory they’re being launched from! That is why I consider the Gaza Disengagement a disaster. As a tiny country, Israel needs strategic defense in depth. This is a fact that gets overlooked in all the talk about peace. Even one rock, one missile can ruin your day. Moshe Feiglin pointed out that an Israel which cannot handle rock throwing incidents cannot handle the nuclear threat from Iran. The Arabs’ advantage in missiles is not the real problem. No, the real problem is the Jews do not believe they have the right to their country and run away and hide from the Arabs. I submit the much lauded Iron Dome ABS is an illustration of this kind of conduct. High tech cowardice is still cowardice! At issue, the matter is not one of material superiority of this or that side; its a matter of moral courage. The great Joshua defeated the Canaanite hordes with a few hundred men.
Another rather self destructive characteristic of our people is our inabilithy to loath and hate enemies. Outside within our own circles that is.
I have no qualms about hating enemies.
I hate most of the Arab islamics. Filthy, murderous, treacherosu, bestial entities. Their intent is transparent to extermnate our people. In turn, if given half a chance would not hesitate to destroy Arab islamists. Loathe islam because it is a cult of death and mayhem.
I calmly despise most of the British and French. They are duplicitous and have constantly tried to harm us.
The Spaniards fall within the lower control limits of hate due to their Inquisition monstrous acts. I would no frown if they are done in in the fashion they did to my people.
I have no further use for the Germans, Austrians, Hungarians and Polacks. As well as the Sweds and Nords. No they have not changed or ever will.
Ben Gurion committed a serious mistake by “forgiving” Germany.
Ted Belman Said:
All it does is to make smuggling more difficult but Israel has not been successful in stopping smuggling on any other border what gives you confidence it will be any different on the eastern border. It has not stopped smuggling till now when we are already controlling that same border?
The Arabs in Y&S are well armed, have active and inactive terrorist militias and what Hamas has done including manufacture home made missiles, mortars can easily become a reality in Y&S without a strong IDF and Shin Bet active presence. The Government of Jordan more or less till now has helped us with their border but that also can change in a nano second.
I am-not saying it’s nt better to have a presence on the Jordanian border than not but if the IDF vacated all or most of the eastern and northern sections of Y&S the IDF on the Jordanian border leaves our soldiers backs and flanks exposed much like we had on the Philidelphi corridor but much longer border. That seems to me to be quite stupid and irresponsible.
What we are speaking of is:
My contention is that our presence would only be marginally helpful defensibly and create other dangers which would nullify any advantages.
Israel surrounded by 300 million Arbs armed to the teeth and with hundreds of thousands of missiles aimed at her not to mention a built in security threat from the Palis cannot achieve security and moving the border a few Km’s here or there will not change nor improve our strategic or immediate security position. While we cannot overcome the apparent geo-political/military situation it’s totally stupid to act to make it worse. We not only need all of Y&S we should consider how to expand the territory under our control and sovereignty. Ideally we need both Sinai and Jordan,Gaza and Southern Lebanon. How to accomplish territorial expansion is another story. Certainly not giving up any territory for any reason should be an obvious given.
The proponents of the TSS are driven by emotion. They flee any rational argument as vampires flee when facing a clove of garlic. What the TSS crowd is proposing for the “West Bank” has already been tried in the Gaza Strip to a much larger extent: no swaps, no Jew left. And it was an undisputable failure.
Why can’t they see the empirical evidence?
NormanF Said:
Stating the fact does not explain it.
yamit82 Said:
Our presence in the Jordan valley is not just to repel armies but to prevent smuggling.
NormanF Said:
Don’t think any of the Arab countries are considering now or in the foreseeable future of conquering Israel but they would opt to make Israel non viable and less secure hopefully driving many Jews out and discouraging others from coming. They seek to compensate for their own military weakness through the acquiring and targeting Israel by a vast array of missiles and rockets of all types and will eventually acquire a nuclear capability. They already have Pakistan. It is said Israel has over 200,000 missiles aimed at her. With such an array in a massive coordinated attack we are defenseless and would have to use our last resort option, that is if they are by that time operational?
Let me remind you that conventional firebombing of Dresden and Tokyo were far more devastating to those cities and countries than the 2 nukes dropped on Japan.
Now watch these 2 somewhat dated short clips and even I don’t know how much is an exaggeration and how much is NOT. What I can say from my own knowledge and experience that the scenarios depicted are Plausible. Especially if you take into consideration Egypt, the Saudis and Iran piling on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssxFqXdQfJk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBt-LxzXllA
The amazing ability of some of our people to rotate endlessly in circles going nowhere reminds me of rose beetles also buzzing around in circles while tied with a string to a peddlers hat in Corfu. (Gerald Durrell). But it is worse, far worse than that. The islamics know how to negotiate with weaklings. They wear the losers down and go in for the kill.
THERE IS NO POINT on negotiating with Islam. They must be defeated and thrown back w/o mercy or with as much mercy as Islam will show for us if they win.
Netanyahu, Peres, Livni are not trustworthy Jews but rather the opposite and they have proven that robustly. They must be removed from power and presented to newly elected courts on charges of high treason.
Netanyahu intentionally allowed “disengagement”, the advance of the Iranian nuclear program during his long tenures as PM, lied about construction whic he has frozen again, destroyed Jewish communities, abandoned for all practical purposes Har HaBait, etc.
Netanyhu is an enemy of the Jewish people.
Yamit82 Said:
Even in this day and age of missile warfare, no country has ever been conquered by rockets! The Germans used the V-2 on the UK in the closing stages of World War II. It had no effect on the outcome. A country can only be subdued by a ground invasion. Holding the high ground – the mountain axes of Judea and Samaria is still critical for Israel – to prevent an invasion from the east. No one guarantee if the Hashemite monarchy will survive in Jordan. The same consideration applies to the Golan Heights vis a vis Syria.
The hatred of the Jews is the world’s oldest and most enduring hatred. It has never gone away. There are plenty of reasons to hate the Jews and they will always be there. Anti-Zionism is simply the latest chapter in mankind’s loathing of Am Israel.
NormanF Said:
That’s Bull Shit. Modern technology and missile warfare make such claims obsolete and in 5-10 years it will only close any advantages to holding the Jordan rift line. The days of massive invading Armies I think are behind us.
No I don’t think so. Too pervasive, Too visceral, Too irrational.
What is going on has more to do with the Jews I think than what and how others view us and react towards us.
“…the LORD hardened Pharaoh’s heart” Exodus 9:12
Joshua 11:20 “For it was the LORD himself who hardened their hearts to wage war against Israel, so that he might destroy them totally, exterminating them without mercy, as the LORD had commanded Moses.”
“Why have nations gathered and [why do] kingdoms think vain things?”
“Your enemies stir, and those who hate You raise their heads.”
“Against Your people they plot cunningly, and they take counsel against Your protected ones.”
” They said, “Come, let us destroy them from [being] a nation, and the name of Israel will no longer be remembered.”
“For they have taken counsel with one accord; against You they form a pact.”
“He Who dwells in Heaven laughs; the Lord mocks them.”
I don’t suppose that the subject of a referendum for both Arabs and Jews ever came up. Who is to decide for the Jews of Israel? Is it a bunch of Israeli politicians along with Abbas, all of them here today and gone tomorrow? – Or is it the people of Israel? It’s one thing for partition proponents to engage in discussions, but who cares, really, when the people of Israel and the Arab Nazis are not even asked! Have a double referendum to put an end to this pretense about “peace”. Land surrender has nothing to do with real peace. Just ask the Jews who will have to face the Egyptians when Egypt abrogates the treaty and fully militarizes the Sinai. Or ask the victims of the Gaza Disengagement. ~~~~ Before anyone starts drawing borders along a partition line, ask the people – both PA Arabs and Israelis. – Fully inform the Jews, expose all the lies – past and present – and then have a double referendum with Jews being presented with all the main options. ~~~ Let’s stop calling it “peace” when what they mean is partition. Also, let’s stress that not even the Arabs claiming the land have made peace with each other. In the meantime Arabs all over the ME massacre each other and perhaps many of them look longingly at PA and Israeli Arabs as they are the only ones living in peace and prosperity – even while they don’t give a single day of peace to the patient Israeli Jews.
yamit82 Said:
The Arabs don’t even keep agreements with fellow Arabs! A point the TSS proponents repeatedly gloss over because there’s no chance the Arabs will treat the infidel Jews with more consideration than they treat their own kith and kin.
Israel keeping sovereignty in the Jordan Valley, Israel holding the Jordan River as its border and unified Israeli control over a common airspace – all of which of course are non-starters with the Arabs.
.
Its anti-Semitism. The world wants to put the Jews in their place! They could care less about the Arabs. The Arabs are simply a convenient foil to get back at the Jews and for the world, Jews exercising national sovereignty in their tiny country is an intolerable affront to the natural order of things. Peace has nothing to do with the driving force behind the world’s obsession to shrink Israel down to size.
NormanF Said:
NormanF Said:
No Arab has abided by any agreement signed or verbal for long. Most have been violated before the ink was dried.
Can’t imagine what safeguards might be?
The Jewish State is one of the tiniest in the world. It is a speck on the map of the Middle East. It is a wonder that anyone even notices this tiny country. Yet the entire world has focused its attention upon her. Mankind can be eating itself alive, but everyone seems to think that if only Israel would make peace with her Arab neighbors by surrendering her tiny homeland to them that all of the evils of the world would magically disappear. It is a totally irrational expectation, yet it remains a high priority to the greatest nations in the world!
I find this preoccupation with us not only strange and irrational but really weird and I’m constantly curious as to what force or forces are at work? What is the driving force behind this obsession?
The problem the API proponents have is are the Arabs going to agree to terminate the conflict in exchange for Israel signing a piece of paper?
If the answer is “no” there is no point to Israel making itself vulnerable to renewed Arab aggression in the future. If the Arabs’ true aim is to destroy Israel, then TSS is a mirage.
Its one Israel has been chasing for 20 years. Netanyahu wants such a deal but he knows there is no chance the Arabs will agree to it with even minimal safeguards for Israel.
Most Israelis understand there are some problems in the world to which there is no solution. And they don’t spend much time worrying about something that is not going to happen in their lifetime – they’ve moved on even if the Israeli Left and the rest of the world hasn’t.