I am very pleased that Bibi said “Israel will keep the area (E-1) under any future peace deal in any case.” He also said at another time “The Palestinians want a state but not peace” I love it.
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is brushing off international criticism over a planned new settlement project near Jerusalem, saying Israel will keep the area under any future peace deal in any case.
Israel’s plans to build 3,000 new settler homes in the corridor near Jerusalem triggered sharp criticism in Europe. Palestinians say that would make it impossible for them to establish a viable state in the West Bank.
After meeting German Chancellor Angela Merkel on Thursday, Netanyahu said “most governments who have looked at these proposals over the years including the Palestinians themselves … understand that these blocs … are going to be part of Israel in a final political settlement of peace.”
“We agreed that we disagree on this,” Merkel said. “We in Germany believe the work on a two-state solution must be continued … we must keep trying to come to negotiations and one-sided moves should be avoided,” she added.
The two had dinner together on Wednesday evening and were hosting talks, along with most of their Cabinet ministers, Thursday morning.
The meeting of the two governments is an annual tradition and is generally amicable but comes at a time when both sides have expressed displeasure with one another’s recent political moves.
‘We haven’t lost Europe’
The unusually tense build-up to Netanyahu’s long-planned trip to Germany, one of Israel’s closest allies in Europe, reflected the increasing displeasure in Europe at his government’s seeming intransigence.
Six friendly European countries summoned the local Israeli ambassadors to file protests, and the US has condemned the latest settlement plans. On Wednesday, the Palestinians asked the UN Security Council to call on Israel to halt the planned construction.
In an interview with German newspaper Die Welt published on Wednesday, Netanyahu said that he “was disappointed, as were many people in Israel, by the German vote in the UN” on Palestinian statehood.
“I took note of this,” Merkel said at the two leaders’ joint news conference at which she stressed anew Germany’s commitment to Israel’s security.
“We did not take the vote, and our position, lightly,” Merkel said. “We are against unilateral measures, so we didn’t vote yes – that was very carefully considered. On the other hand, there is a certain amount of movement on the recognition of two states, which at many points in time we didn’t have with the Palestinians.”
Netanyahu stressed that despite the vote, Germany and other European countries have been among Israel’s strongest allies and remain committed to helping ensure its security.
“I don’t think that we lost Europe,” he said of the vote.
@ yamit82:
Not with your timid government. The government won’t do any of that or annex the land without the people of Israel demanding it. Your suggestions are very good, Yamit, but nothing will happen. Your govt will continue with business as usual, empowering Arabs to take over your land.
I don’t presume to know better than Israelis, but I got the impression that firm protests against the infiltrators made the government pull their welcome mat from African ‘refugees’. For YEARS, and until large number of angry Jews demonstrated in the streets, the IDF, police, the ministers, all blamed each other and their lack of guidelines – while tens of thousands of Africans poured into Israel.
Demonstrations changed all that. There is power in people unified by one goal. The goal this time needs to be annexation, with the citizenship issue pushed into the future for study. Right wing politicians need to be roused from their slumber and made to work and organize people.
“Are we talking about the compliance of the monarchy that is just about to implode under the Arab Spring?”
Exactly. I think this is why the King of Jordan just visited Abbas: It is irrelevant whether or not the King supports Abbas; what is relevant is the fact that the King visited Abbas in order to gain some brownie points (if it worked) from the Islamists all over Jordan.
“Has anyone ever produced one shred of evidence that the ‘Palestinians’ need a state?”
Good point, Dweller. That’s like asking a crocodile if it needs a free meal.
@ Canadian Otter:
What I would want the GOI to do and what they can do with little effort today is:
A- Don’t fight sanctions of the EU directly but- State that such economic sanctions amount to a casus belli.
Israel in response should:
1- reimburse any vender or supplier to Europe for losses incurred that come directly and indirectly from their higher tariffs, taxes, embargoes or boycotts because they are located over the green line.
2- fire and bar any Arab workers from the territories in Jewish settlements and in Israel proper.
3- Allow foreign workers easy permits and conditions to replace effectively any Arab labor lost due to them being barred from working for and in any settlement and in Israel proper.
B- Deduct the cost of reimbursement to our economic interests hurt by decisions of the EU– from the Tax transfers we forward to the PA. The same goes for any other economic sanctions imposed on Israel by the EU.
C- Europe and the USA, should be put on notice that we will take out of the economic hide of the Palis any policy put into effect to punish and injure our Economic interests by them. Hurt us they hurt the Palis more.
D- All debts owed by the PA to Israeli Institutions will be immediately deducted from tax transfers and remitted to all creditors.(public and private)
E-Israeli ports used for export will be blocked To Palis from using Israeli air and sea ports of departure and embarkation.
Depending on the severity of economic sanctions Israel will consider even stricter sanctions against the PA.
Of Course Europe and America can make up any shortfall due to Israeli actions but would need to supply through non-Israeli ports.
@ yamit82:
Heh. Looks like being annoying can after all be an Ideology.
Do tell.
—>
Hey! I love this picture in the link – a guy in Cairo has a message for Obama on a placard.
Says it all…
https://twitter.com/ElFoulio/statuses/277051025242873857
Message:
“Obama! Your B*tch is our Dictator.”
@ yamit82:
It all makes sense now..
Thanks yamit.
@ Max:
Max Said:
He has on several occasions explained his purpose here. He is a seed planter of his ideas, ideology, theology and a propagandist for his messiah.
He is a born again Messianic “Johnny Appleseed”.
@ dweller:
You are so full of yourself it stinks all the way here.
You wouldn’t know a commie if he landed on your head like you haven’t in all this time recognized who our friend “Freyman” really is even though I have in different posts identified him. He goes by many names like “Lois lane” etc. but you are so obtuse it went by the vacuum above your shoulders or because you agree with his positions and enjoy the argument for it’s own sake you keep it to yourself.
Anyone who has been here for more than a couple of years knows or should have recognized the NUT.
I gave up long ago bringing his real identity up in my comments except occasionally to let him know that I know, to which he acknowledged the correctness of my identification. If Belman don’t care then neither do I.
But you dweller never disappoint.
Inflated Ego ÜBER ALLES.
@ Davida Rosenberg:
Thank you, Davida.
Disappointing:
Canada joins in criticism of new settlements – http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/12/05/canada-joins-in-global-criticism-for-new-israeli-settlement-plan/
Canada to continue $300 million humanitarian aid to the Palestinian Authority. – http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/12/04/canadas-to-continue-300-million-humanitarian-aid-to-palestinians-spokesman-for-john-baird/
It would not be unthinkable that the Israeli govt itself asked Canada to continue giving life support to the ‘moderate’ Fatah. The Israeli govt is a strong supporter of Abbas, the mastermind of the Munich Olympics massacre. The Israeli govt figures it can’t sell Two-States to the Israeli public if the PA falls in the hands of Hamas.
@ the phoenix:
Thanks Phoenix. You certainly called dweller’s number. He’s not worth a great deal of effort , but I suppose it’s necessary to make or practice denouncements now and then just to flush out one’s system and move ever forward.
You did a good job there.
Yeah he does look like some kind of nit-picking agent provocateur , an annoyance factor. You are right, other that that he doesn’t seem to have any purpose here.
@ Max:
very well put max.
kudos!
incidentally, like you,
Max Said:
so do i.
i am now posting less comments as i find that i would only be repeating what you have already said
🙂
@ Canadian Otter:
There is something phenomenonal about ‘truth’. You can be anywhere in the world, in a city, or on an island, in a hot air balloon or speeding on a space shuttle, working in a skyscraper or under the earth mining for coal; but when Truth passes by YOU JUST KNOW IT. Thank you for sending out
a word of ‘truth’ to my hearing today. Canadian Otter, thank you.
dweller Said:
You simply don’t know who you are. If you use the same tactics as jackboots it makes you a jackboot Mr. Smarmy show-me-the-evidence when the “evidence” is in your face.
Don’t worry you are in good company, a vast majority of US citizens, for example, are indoctrinated in fascist ideology. They simply lack the power to objectively evaluate what and who they are.
If someone uses the same propaganda as an Islamofascist Propagandist , it makes them a Islamofascist Propagandist. It doesn’t matter what swill goes on in their heads or what is their motivation, whether it’s leftism or Islamism or Psychobabble-ism.
I didn’t say Al-Freyman is an Islamist, he is simply using one of their tools. Who knows what swills inside his brain? I couldn’t care less, I only care what is the effect and intent of people.
Effect and Intent – try to learn what those words mean. This is the foundation of Islamofascist propaganda and trickery. Black is white, up is down, Islam is peace, I am ‘for” Israel, this medicine is good for you, Have I got a deal for you!
If someone is sticking a knife in you or your country it doesn’t matter how soothing their words are or if they are saying they have your best interests at heart.
What matters is the knife.
—>
Ha! So you want to know who he is. I suppose misery loves company.
You have nothing important to do?
You can enjoy each other.
Exclude me out.
@ dweller:
ok dweller, you have succeeded. you DID push my buttons to which i must respond:
since one cannot add voice inflection to one’s posts, we rely entirely, as best as possible, to convey the message and the feeling (whether it be outrage, pride, or a good belly laugh).
there is a sense of camaraderie, esprit de corps if you will, between the MAJORITY of those that post here. (we would obviously have to exclude, the usual suspects…)
indeed, i find that most who post here are truly birds of a feather. we all possess different fortes and various degrees of eloquence in expressing the ideas, but nonetheless, i think (and i am sure that i speak for the majority)that we understand THE PERSON behind the post.
i have read many of your comments and exchanges…
you come here to this forum NOT TO OFFER A SOLUTION OR SOLIDARITY but to prove how ‘zen’ and enlightened and oh..so cool calm and collected and never getting your feathers ruffled you are…
you would nit pick, dissect and deconstruct each little comment just to show / prove what a ohh, so zen’ish (yamit would call it yushka’ish…:) )fine specimen you are.
the outrage and disdain that max is showing to this freyman idiot is, i am sure, shared by many (yours truly here for sure!)but that comes from a person with a good heart and CLEAR MORAL COMPASS (max, that is).
i would remind you, dweller, that when buffalo sense danger they move into a protective formation.
and idiotic comments made by the likes of freyman (aka ‘herr freyermann’, aka al-freyman’) are dealt with, by any of the other commenters.
i know that the library is opened for the rest of the day and so you’d have the time to pick apart my post line by line and PROVE what an unsophisticated and brute the phoenix is vs the open minded dweller.
it’s ok.
@ Canadian Otter:
There isn’t any. And, increasingly, there is very little difference between the 1930-s and 2012. Pity, but that is the reality.
The Sudeten Germans do not want the Czech army to fortify the Sudetenland. They demand self determination. However if conditions allow they may decide to rejoin the great German Nation under the fuhrer, Adolf Hitler. (1938). The “Palestinian” Arabs in the “West Bank” (Judea,Samaria) do not want the Israelis to fortify the suburbs of Jerusalem (E1). They only wish self determination.However if conditions allow they may wish to unite with the other “Palestinian” Arabs who constitute 75% of the population of Jordan.If conditions are even more favorable they can eliminate the indefensible 15 kilometer wide strip of beach on the Mediterranean that exists under the name “Israel”. The Jewish population will be dealt with as deemed necessary and a Sunni Arab state known as “United Palestine” (Gaza,Israel, West Bank, Jordan) can take its rightful place within the great Arab Nation. (2012)
@ Bernard Ross:
as long as the moderation is in Israel’s interest, and not imposed upon her by the UN, the EU, even the US(?) and others who have minimal, if any, interest in seeing Israel survive.
How Europe Boycotts Israel Goods – by GIULIO MEOTTI
@ Donald freyman:
Donald freyman Said:
Sir, you cannot prove a negative…
Labeling Israeli products as GHETTO MADE or ILLEGAL ~~~~~ With the European insistence on labeling Israeli products according to place of origin – the ghetto proper or illegal (Israel or settlements) – the Israeli govt has the choice of either accept the yellow armband for the settlements, or do the HONORABLE thing and annex all of Judea and Samaria into Israel. “We are all settlements”. ~~~~~ In deep regret they did not completely destroy the Jews, Europeans OUTSOURCED the job to Muslims immediately after the war. This is a historical fact, with escaped Nazis training the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt for the explicit aim of destroying the new state of Israel, while allied security agencies (UK, US) gave the MB significant help as well – http://www.canadafreepress.com/2006/loftus101106.htm – This was complemented by European governments hosting, assisting, and arming ‘Palestinian’ terrorists. Today those terrorists have been fully legitimized and eulogized, complete with Vatican benediction, while Israel becomes incresingly deligitimized. The US created a terrorist PA army inside Jewish land, and provides the latest weaponry to Israel’s sworn enemies. The EU and the US officially give the Arab Nazi terrorists enthusiastic moral and financial support and pressure Israel to empower them with land of their own. ~~~~~ Now Europeans have taken a new bold step aimed at the isolation and eventual destruction of the state of Israel: a partial boycott. So the QUESTION remains: Will the Israeli govt submit to this humiliation, or will Israelis pressure their govt to act with honor and self-respect by tearing off the yellow armband from Judea and Samaria Jews? No more second-class citizenship for settlers, no more ‘occupation’, this is all Israeli land.
@ David Chase: Further to my reply #28 in moderation. They can state that they will observe certain cooperations in Oslo which are in Israels interest but do not waive further action in contradiction to Oslo. The pals threaten intifada and public insecurity as one of their tactics. Israel can say that they will respond by deporting the PA, Fatah, PLO and all related militias not acting in Israel s approval. this can be done using Oslo because they were allowed into Israel under the now materially breached accords.
reply 28 to Chase in moderation
David Chase Said:
Oslo has fallen apart, what part can be relied upon?
David Chase Said:
Oslo stated no actions which would change the status. Therefore building without declaring Oslo dead is just a negotiating trick and appears to be a vindictive spiteful punishment rather than a repudiation of an agreement and a reversion to “status quo ante”
David Chase Said:
Blaming the internationals can help to obstruct pressure on Israel, from the internationals , to negotiate. Right now the internationals point a condemning finger at israel treating her actions as spiteful. If Israel clearly and loudly pointed the finger back it changes the focus to them; it is they who become charged with the responsibility for putting the negotiations back but now under an aura of total mistrust for them.
David Chase Said:
They just did exactly that. By condemning Israels building they have shifted the blame and responsibility of the failed negotiations to Israel and Israeli is acting “slyly” but appearing to the worod to be the villain. According to all logic which has thus far prevailed it is the victim who will be prosecuted and the victim who will get sanctions. Therefore: loud and clear would be a better approach at this juncture in my opinion. Why keep painting oneself as the villain when the villains are clearly there pointing a finger at you?
Agreed, All opportunities
@ dweller:
I answered you. Since you are defending an Islamofascist propagandist and attacking me, your intent is clear.
Your post is brain gibberish it must hurt to be you. You are an Islamofascist enabler and therefore an Islamofascist propagandist. What you do is what you are.
I look forward to a world without you people.
Ta Ta, Al-Dweller.
Davida Rosenberg Said:
I speak for mysel as well as All The Dispersed of Judah…. if we all would make up our minds to
leave Babylon and return Home, we would need much more than the 3000 new housing developments; we would INHABIT ALL THE LAND. Return O Israel. Then, we would say, “move back the tent peg, we need more room. It will surely come. One way, or another, it will surely come. Blessings to you Israel.
@ Max:
You may have known some commies ‘intimately.’
But if so, you couldn’t’ve known them very well — if you see their style in me.
You see, I’ve no use for jackboots; they pinch my feet.
And I’m not snarling at all, Max. (Perhaps you’ve confused me with that guy who was snarling back at you from the mirror this morning while you were shaving?)
I give every man an opportunity to show me who he is. I have every confidence that in time, Mr Freyman will show me the man he is.
— Till then, I ignore nothing, all-the-while maintaining the discipline of an open mind.
It was a simple question I asked you about him, Max.
If you don’t have the patience or inclination to answer the question, no problem.
— In demurring, you told me something about yourself.
You need to switch to decaf.
Taper off gradually. Cold turkey from caffeine is a bear.
dweller Said:
If the intent and effect is to empower Islamofascists a propagandist is an Islamofascist Propagandist. If it quacks like an Islamofascist is an Islamofascist – doesn’t’ matter if he is from Haifa or from Sidon – identical words are identical intent.
It makes no difference what the person ‘thinks’,how they got there or how much they are yet aware of the consequences of the propaganda they have adopted. You make the mistake of the whole Western world of mindless sockpuppets who try to argue with people who are using words as distractions while they are trying to kill them. They have had their basic common sense of reality ironed out of them by thought-programming – they are ‘in their heads’.. While they are busy trying to figure things out they get bludgeoned and knifed.
When the intent is identified they don’t deserve intellectual responses they only deserve to be eliminated.
You remind me of the commies of who I’ve had intimate acquaintance. I am fully aware of totalitarian fascist tactics. They are always snarling ans saying “Where is the Evidence?” when they have their jackboot on your head .
If you don’t recognize intent like when someone is trying to destroy you them you will end up buried with the rest of the evidence. Just like the bagels-in-the-brains leaders who left Gaza in 2005 didn’t understand the intent of their enemy.
..
When a leftist empowers Islamofascism , the leftist becomes an Islamofascist in action, the psychobabble of how they got there is irrelevant.
@ Bernard Ross:
Your legal distinction between breaking a clause and the nullification of the entire agreemenet is well taken. However, it seems to me that strategy-wise, until that happens, we could engage in likewise tit-for-tat clause violation, if you wish, just as the Palestinians have been doing-what I was basically referring to as the foot-in-the-door response. At this point, it doesn’t really matter who gets the blame for Oslo’s failure- the Palestinians or the international community. I really see it as an opportunity. If building further erodes the Oslo agreements-all the better. I don’t think anybody is going to call the Oslo agreements into question so long as it’s only the Palestinians who are doing all the breaching so I think that if the Oslo accords fall apart, Israel will be liberated but it probably won’t be called into question if we sit back and do nothing- and, of course, we do have other legal bases for moving forward on building. We, too, can play legalistic games with the accord. The worst case scenario, ironically, is that the accords do fall apart and then they’ll be no basis at all legally to stop the building. What can the international community say “You’re violating an agreement abrogated by the other side.” We should take advantage of the opportunity.
@ Max:
Defeatist, perhaps.
Leftward bent, maybe.
Propagandist of SOME stripe, likely.
But “Islamofascist”?
— evidence?
Donald freyman Said:
You first, Al Freyman – put on a jacket saying ‘I ‘heart’ Israel’ and walk through Gaza City.
A shred? Ha Ha. The shred is called The Gaza Strip.
As an Islamofascist propagandist, Al Freyman, you are not too effective, but you are annoying.
Donald freyman Said:
No one has produced any evidence either that jumping from a tall building will NOT produce a state of inner peace, joy and happiness. You should try it herr freyermann, you really wouldn’t know without first trying…..
Please reread what I just wrote and then look in the mirror and honestly answer the question: are you evil or just plain stupid?
@ Donald freyman:
Has anyone ever produced one shred of evidence that the ‘Palestinians’ need a state?
@ mrzee:
This is a great one-liner — in a world where most slogans (clever OR imbecilic) seem to be forever coming from the other side.
Belongs on buttons, bumper stickers, backyard fences & bathroom walls. . . .
@ Yidvocate:
Yid- Are you in an altered state?- Israel has never annexed the territories nor is it in any of their proposals, except the Golan, neither have they offered to compensate any Arab for moving nor does Israel regard J and S as part of Israel. Israel wants to keep the settlement blocks which in area comprises something like 5% of the total area in dispute. We call this a case of wishful thinking.
@ lois lane:
Are we talking about the compliance of the monarchy that is just about to implode under the Arab Spring? When the dust settles, just what “state” comprised of some 80% of Arabs that identify as “Palestinian” do you think will result? Just how many sovereign states do you think these Arabs that have adopted the fakestinian moniker should have in lands promised for the Jewish homeland?
And just one more question: What’s wrong with those Arabs that choose to remain in Israel, including annexed J&S, as alien residents, (more like a million and half not 5 mil!). The State would help those who prefer to relocate to either of the two pal states of Jordan or Gaza or any one of 22 Arab countries and 55 Muslim countries if they prefer not to live in the Jewish State. “Occupation”, what occupation?
Time for a new mind-set. One based on truth and justice. Not fabrication and lies.
@ mrzee:
And prior to the creation of the PA there were numerous terrorist attacks both inside and outside of Israel.Many more innocent Israelis died as a result of the constant infiltration of the terrorists of that day compared to the present time. In addition planes were hijacked almost every week. How quickly we forget.
replies 11 to lois lane and D Freyman and 12 to David Chase in moderation
David Chase Said:
I think that more importantly, the burden of intransigence should be clearly placed on the internationals for breaking their agreements with Israel. It is now hinted at but hints are sidestepped and avoided. Their breaches are much more damaging than the Pal breaches and have a much greater implication regarding their future guarantees. If Israel blames the internationals it can claim to be floundering in a sea of indecision and shock which requires a total reassessment, a commission and study. That the breaches of all the parties renders it unable to enter any real negotiations because it has no basis for coming to agreements with anyone, no one to trust and no one to take guarantees from. Furthermore, the pals are already on the record for being intransigent for breaking their agreements and it did not prevent the internationals from breaking theirs or withdrawing support fromthe Pals. Israel needs reasons to get out of Oslo and there is a very short window of opportunity to grasp.
David Chase Said:
The excuse to build can only be based on nullifying Oslo as Oslo was an agreement to reach a treaty which would end Jewish building rights. Nullifying Oslo allows an Israeli turnabout on the other issues given up for Oslo: Jewish settlement, land for peace, etc. If Oslo is not nullified then there is not an excuse to build. It is like a contract where a clause is breached but the agreement remains in place. Oslo must be declared to be materially breached and subsequently nullified and the international community, and individual countries must be clearly and directly blamed for Oslo’s death so as to make it clear as to why everything else results(building.etc.)
lois lane Said:
the number of pals appears to be growing in your post exponentially.
lois lane Said:
Dont agree, Unilateral assertive actions have not been tried yet only retreat. Here is a unilateral move that does not require agreement of the affected parties: Israel seizes buffer zones across the borders of any, or all, entities currently at war(Gaza, Lebanon, Syria); It erects temporary refugee camps in the buffer zones: It transport the hostile population to these reception areas and then with draws troops back across the border. It needs no agreements with the countries with which it is at war, It has seized and held territory in all the mentioned areas before; It has logistical experience in transporting deported civilian populations en masse from Gaza. A legal basis can be formed thusly: 1) All PA, PLO, fatah, would be deported under the breach of Oslo which allowed them in from Tunisia;2)Inciters, criminals and criminals would be deported as undesirable aliens(done in other countries).3)The balance would be deported as a population exchange to give quid pro quo to jewish refugees expelled as a result of arab israeli wars. The prime obstruction is the willingness of the Israelis, and foreigners, to accept such a radical solution for anyone other than Jews(with whom it appears to be widely accepted). However, it is unilateral, it can be physically accomplished, the only questions is ability to endure sanctions and isolation plus the willingess of Israeli Jews to do unto others what has been done, and is being threatened, to them. If a bad war, and sanctions, arrive first then the task will be more acceptable to Israelis.
lois lane Said:
Not necessarily true: if JOrdan returns into war with Israel again it also becomes a hostile border to seize land from and deliver hostiles. However, I can see scenarios where the JOrdan govt, under the pals or monarchy, can see great advantage to becoming identified as a Palestinian state. If Abdullah was able to reinvent himself as a “Palestinian” figurehead monarch he could guarantee his family some generational security. His wife and son are “palestinian” and he is right now seeking credibility and approval by visiting Abbas to make political associations. There is a potential scenario where everyone could decide positively for the rerouting of all moneys currently spent on refugees to Jordan to absorb refugees. This would create an economic boom in Jordan and a magnet to west bank arabs.
Donald freyman Said:
HMMM? Peace or a “peace document”? Perhaps you should ask the canary in the coal mine. A defacto state exists in gaza, that might help you to form some reasonable conclusions, notice any peaceful indicators there?. PA incitement, anti semitism, blood libeling should also be reasonable indicators to most. Of course, you cannot be sure that if you enter the oven it will be turned on.
@ Bernard Ross:
I agree with you that the absolutely worse thing that Israel can do is to continue negotiating. However, being on record as not against the two-state solution I think paradoxically makes Netanyahu two-state proof as it places the burden of intransigience on the Palestinians. That was my point. In the meanwhile, we use this as the “excuse” to go forward with our rightful building- the foot in the door.
@ Donald freyman:
Life in Israel hasn’t exactly become more peaceful since the palestinians took control of parts of Yesha. Judea and Samaria were even worse before Israel returned during Defensive Shield. That’s more evidence than I need.
@ mrzee:
Has anyone ever produced one shred of evidence that creating a Palestinian State will NOT produce peace?. Has anyone produced anything without first trying ?
The so-called ” friends of Israel” who support the policies of the current government need to ask themselves an essential question. What will Israel do with some 5 million (more or less) restive and very unhappy Arabs, and growing,under its control? An open ended occupation does not address this essential question.
All the numerous suggestions like the unilateral move to annex and entice the Palestinians to leave cannot possibly work because it is a UNILATERAL measure without the approval of one of the protagonists to this dispute. Israel has agreed to the participation of outside parties to mediate the conflict, none of whom are on board with any of the numerous plans being submitted.
An example of the fuzzy thinking at play here- The Jordan is Palestine movement, will go absolutely nowhere without the active compliance of Jordan.One might think that is self evident but it seems to have been lost in the thinking of most of the commentators. Emotions seems to rule the day.
reply to Chase in moderation
David Chase Said:
This reverse psychology approach is part of the problem. On the one hand it is a substitute for being stuck in the Oslo bad deal. On the other hand Israel can screw up a big opportunity by not declaring Oslo dead and refusing ALL negotiations until all the old paradigms , failures and broken agreements are re-assessed. Everyone has forgotten the right of jews to live in YS because it is hardly mentioned, and always as a 2nd priority afterthought. Israel should have expressed outrage at all the international entities who broke their Oslo guarantees and then having the unmitigated Chutzpah to expect the obviously “dumb Jews to keep negotiating as if negotiations were more important than keeping agreements with Israel.. What possible justification is there for a contiuning of negotiations towards an agreement which is likely to be broken???? This reverse psychology approach puts the emphasis in the wrong places and allows everyone to forget their agreements with the “DUMB” Jews. Israel should act as if they are in shock over the broken agreements by the internationals. What can be possibly taken seriously, why negotiate? BB is saying that if the pals do more Israel may do more; this is stupid Israel should put the shoe on all the other feet by declaring it cannot continue as before David Chase Said:
This is self defeating. They have already, along with the international entities, broken the only existing agreement other than the original san remo,LON, UNcharter80. This is a chance to get out legally, with a basis, from the entire terrible burden of Oslo whereas if they wait it will be just seen as a negotiation trick rather than the whole thing is justifiably under question.. This is a chance to say that with everyone breaking their agreements with Israel everything needs re-thinking. The absolutely worst thing to sayis that Israel wants to continue negotiating. This acknowledges the validity of breaking agreements with Israel. Only if they say that negotiating is from the very beginning and no prior understanding s can be expected to be honored.
Slowly but surely might be a big mistake in not draeing attention to the one elephant in the room which allows escape from suicide.
palestinians say that would make it impossible for them to establish a viable state in the West Bank.
The main reason a palestinian state wouldn’t be viable is because it would be run by palestinians.
Has anyone ever produced one single shred of evidence that creating a palestinian state would bring peace?
Time to start getting the long overdue movement on the recognition of the 4 states in the original Mandate of Palestine lands. There is first of all the 78% of the parcel that was parceled off to the Arabs in Jordan. Then Israel gave up a nice slice to the Arabs in Gaza. Then of course there is Israel and finally the cradle of our ancestral homeland, Judea and Samaria.
Just how many states do the Fakestinians merit for all their sacrifices and hardship endured through the millenniums of their valiant struggle (harkening all the way back to their ancient inception in 1964 A.D.)? One, Two, Three? If you ask them, the answer is 4, If you ask Merkel, it’s 3 for sure. So what the fcuk is she talking about recognition of two states?
@ Bernard Ross:
In the meanwhile, he is establishing our building rights in E1 for starters. The more he talks about negotiating a peace agreement the more the Palestinians resist it resulting that we can keep (or should I say start asserting) more of our building rights in the settlements (I prefer saying “developments”). Two can play the game of “foot in the door”. The more they don’t sit and talk (remember, he is offering and we know they won’t sit and talk) the more facts on the ground we can start making. Slowly, but surely.
Germany, EU, UN killed Oslo and now they are complaining, crying over the milk they spilled, that they want Israel to clean up. That’s how they see Israel: as idiots to be conned. I dont understand why BB talks about still wanting to negotiate a peace agreement. Only an idiot would conclude, or even negotiate any agreement with someone who just broke their last agreement. Only an idiot accepts guarantees from those that repeatedly break their guarantees. . Ask any bank!