Pentagon pushes back on Turkish incursion in Syria

The Pentagon fought back against President Donald Trump’s surprise decision to remove US troops from northeast Syria to allow a Turkish operation, a senior administration official told Al-Monitor on Monday.

In internal US administration discussions before the White House announced Trump’s decision, Pentagon officials argued that Turkey had used negotiations for a northeast ‘safe zone’ to scout a military operation against the US-backed Syrian Democratic Forces, known as the SDF.

“Certainly not a surprise to most, the [Department of Defense] opposed the decision to allow the Turkish operation,” a senior administration official told Al-Monitor. The official added, “We have spent considerable time and effort to build the safe zone under the expressed idea that it would appease the Turks and prevent an incursion. The Turks just used it as a way to conduct reconnaissance for their operation. That was completely deceptive on their part.”

As US troop elements have begun to pull back from Syria’s contested border with Turkey, a separate defense official said Defense Secretary Mark Esper will be “reaching out to affected allies today,” though it was not clear whether the Pentagon would be contacting the SDF, who criticized the American pullback as a betrayal on Sunday.

It was not immediately clear how far American forces would pull back, as the Defense Department had yet to finalize the safe zone area with Turkey. “The US does not endorse Turkish military action in northern Syria,” a US defense official told Al-Monitor on Monday, despite a White House statement on Sunday indicating that US troops would stand aside as Ankara launches an attack.

But the public reaction from the Pentagon appeared to mask more nuanced conversations within the administration, as the SDF cited the move as American disloyalty to the group, which said it suffered 11,000 dead in the fight against the Islamic State (IS).

The Pentagon knew that Trump’s call with Erdogan was coming on Sunday night, the senior administration official said, but Defense Department leaders did not know the president would green-light the Turkish incursion.  During the call on Sunday, the Turkish leader accepted an invitation from Trump to visit the White House next month.

The Defense Department had consistently told Turkish leaders it was completely opposed to an intervention, which is why the agency had supported the buffer zone and joint patrols.  Trump is set to be briefed by senior military leaders on Monday afternoon.

The senior administration official, who spoke to Al-Monitor on condition of anonymity to discuss internal US deliberations, said the move would harm relationships with future partners and take away “one of the few successes we have had in the Middle East” in the four-year campaign to defeat IS.

The move “put in jeopardy all of the success we have had in the Defeat ISIS campaign,” the official said, adding, “It betrays the trust of one of our best partners we have had on this almost 20-year fight against extremists, and a whole generation of US military professionals will remember it as just that — a betrayal.”

The Pentagon has approximately 1,000 US troops in Syria, including a company-sized element that sits astride an Iranian supply line near Iraq and Jordan. Esper and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Mark Milley spent much of the weekend on the phone with Turkish Defense Minister Hulusi Akar, the official added.

Anticipating a Turkish incursion on Monday, the Pentagon pulled Turkey off of the air-tasking order, which would make it harder to conduct missions in the region, and intelligence feeds run through the joint operations center set up with the US in the safe zone, said Pentagon Spokesperson Lt. Col. Carla Gleason.

Despite pushback from Democrats and Republican allies in Congress, President Trump sought to firmly state that his decision would deter US adversaries such as Russia and Iran in a series of tweets on Monday.

Al-Monitor previously reported in April that the small presence of American troops in Syria relies heavily on the Kurdish-dominated SDF to provide escorts, force protection and intelligence about IS fighters on the ground.

By abandoning the safe zone, former US officials say the Trump administration is acknowledging that an incursion by Ankara would likely threaten the residual American presence in Syria.

“If Turkey invades, US forces would have to leave given [their] reliance on [the] SDF for mobility and force protection,” said Dana Stroul, a former Democratic staffer for the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and co-chair of the congressionally mandated Syria Study Group.

Trump’s decision marks another major reversal in US policy in Syria, after first announcing an American withdrawal last December. As recently as Saturday, Defense Secretary Mark Esper told reporters he “agreed” with Turkish counterpart Hulusi Akar “that we need to make the security mechanism work.”

Sunday’s decision is a sign that despite the Pentagon’s protests, Trump’s instincts to pull out of Middle East conflicts will continue to dominate US national security decisions.

“[The Department of Defense] and others in the administration kept the United States in Syria for a while, but those voices are either gone or quiescent now,” said Alexander Bick, a former National Security Council director for Syria during the Barack Obama administration. “I think Trump is more confident calling the shots now — especially when he thinks he’s in tune with his political base, which needs something right now.”

Jack Detsch is Al-Monitor’s Pentagon correspondent. Based in Washington, Detsch examines US-Middle East relations through the lens of the Defense Department. Detsch previously covered cybersecurity for Passcode, the Christian Science Monitor’s project on security and privacy in the Digital Age. Detsch also served as editorial assistant at The Diplomat Magazine and worked for NPR-affiliated stations in San Francisco. On Twitter: @JackDetsch_ALM, Email: jdetsch@al-monitor.com.

Read more: https://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2019/10/pentagon-push-back-turkey-incursion-syria.html#ixzz61hJSKezj

October 7, 2019 | 31 Comments »

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  1. This ought to clear things up, for those who have knee-jerk attacked the US President over this matter:

    https://www.kurdistan24.net/en/news/746b11d9-ad16-41c4-ad7d-e20616ad13a7

    Note that this is posted on Kurdistan 24, a pro-Kurdish source.

    I have been saying for several decades, long before Erdogan took office, that Turkey would attack Israel as per Ezekiel 38-39, usually in the face of mockery from Edgar G and others here. Turkey (“Magog”) is now on its way, via Syria, and the Israpundits are still reacting in unbelief. The main issue that needs to be dealt with, is that Turkey must ally itself with Iran. This may take some time to unfold.

  2. @ Laura: I agree absolutely with you, Laura, on this point. See also my attempt to explain the reasons behind Trump’s decision to let Erdogan invade Syria and attack the Kurds, in addition to his perceived need to avoid angering the “Beltway” when their impeachment mania is in full swing. There were apparently also some legitimate foreign and defense policy motivations behind Trump’s decision. See my posts under the article

    Trump: We have not abandoned the Kurds
    Trump defends decision to pull troops from northern Syria, but stresses US is not abandoning the local Kurds.

    By Elad Benari, INN

    on another page on Israpundit. I think I explain the reasoning of Trump’s national security and foreign affairs advisors about the Turkey-Kurdish conflict, when they advised him not to get tough with Turkey, in a calmer and more rational way than I did in my posts in response to you on this page. My “Oh OH OH” comment was a bit breathless and overwrought.

  3. @ Adam Dalgliesh:

    But the same “Beltway” crowd that is now denouncing Trump for his desertion of the Kurds would raise a hundred times the ruckus if he did this. Oh OH Oh, they would have shouted. He has handed Turkey over to the Russians! America would have had to evacuate its air bases in Turkey, and the Russians would have moved into them. Further proof that Trump is Russian agent, Putins poodle. And of course , without those U.S. bases in Turkey, he could have done little to help the Kurds, or fight ISIS in the first place. OH Oh OH! the Beltway crowd would have shouted.

    You’re absolutely right. I cannot disagree with anything you have said in this post. Whatever Trump does, the DC establishment and media will attack him and in knee-jerk fashion will take the opposite position. We have already seen that with NK. When Trump was sounding belligerent and calling Kim Jong Un “little rocket man” they attacked him, when he was reaching out to little Kim and negotiating they attacked him for caving to a dictator. Trump is damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t.

  4. @ Laura: Laura, I think we need to give Trump a little bit of a break here. This impeachment inquiry seems to be gaining traction, and it looks like articles of impeachment will be voted by the House. With Trump fighting for his political life, it is inevitable that his time and energy level for dealing with the nation’s and the world’s problems have been somewhat reduced. He has been forced to rely on the advice he receives from the Departments of Defense and State, and the CIA to help him decide what to do about Turkey and the Kurds, and I suspect that they have not given him the best advice. Many people in the Pentagon and the CIA cling to the outdated Turkish alliance, even though Turkey under Erdogan has long ceased to be an ally. Living in the past, and clinging to wishful thinking that Turkey will some day return to its pro-American, pro-Western stance.. Without much time or energy to think the matter through independently and act contrary to what he has been told by his senior advisors, Trump blundered. But given the incredible pressure he is under, I thinjk we should give him a break

  5. @ Laura: Laura, I actually agree with you. I would much prefer if Trump took a “militant” approach.

    He should have placed Turkey under a total economic and arms embargo years ago. But the same “Beltway” crowd that is now denouncing Trump for his desertion of the Kurds would raise a hundred times the ruckus if he did this. Oh OH Oh, they would have shouted. He has handed Turkey over to the Russians! America would have had to evacuate its air bases in Turkey, and the Russians would have moved into them. Further proof that Trump is Russian agent, Putins poodle. And of course , without those U.S. bases in Turkey, he could have done little to help the Kurds, or fight ISIS in the first place. OH Oh OH! the Beltway crowd would have shouted.

    For that matter, he should have ended U.S. aid to Pakistan as well. Why should we be giving that country hundreds of millions of dollars in aid, when it is protecting al-Qaeda and supporting our Taliban enemies? But if he did that, the Beltway ceowd would have screamed, “he is endangering our soldiers inAfghanistan, forcing him to withdraw them, and handing over both Pakistan and Afghanistan to the Chinese and the Russians. Oh how horrible!

    Trump (and his predecessors going back at least to 2003) should have bombed the ____out of Iran and destroyed its nuclear capability, brought about regime change there by destroying their leadership. But If he bombed Iran, the Iranians have the capability to hit back at American bases in the area, killing some American soldiers in the process. OH, how awful, the Beltway crowd would exclaim. Iran could also have totally destroyed the Saudi and other Gulf states oil fields, seized eastern Saudi Arabia where all their oil fields are located, seized Bahrain, Kuwait, etc. Trump would have had to have sent a 100,000 or so troops to defeat the Iranian savages and bring an end to the mullocracy. OH Oh Oh how awful, the Beltway crowd would have screamed. Trump is irresponsible. he has involved us in yet another land war in the Middle East. Congress would have withheld the money to fight.

    Trump should have imposed far harsher economic sanctions on China. Why should we trade with China when it is committing monstrous human rights violations against the Uighurs in Sinkiang? Oppressing the people of Hong Kong? Oppressing the Tibetan people for the last seventy years? Building illegal military bases in the central Pacific? Seizing islands in the Pacific that don’t belong to them, and ignoring a World Court order to evacuate them? But if Trump imposed the severe economic sanctions on China that it deserves, Oh! Oh! OH! the Beltway crowd would have exclaimed. He has totally sunk the u.S. economy. There will be a depression!

    Trump’s path has been strewn with boulders ever since the Republican convention nominated him, and the people elected him President in 2016. A mere businessman, with no political experience, who never held public office before, has been elected President! We have to drive him from office by any and every means possible! Under the circumstances, it is amazing that he has managed to do anything at all as President. It is amazing that he was able to help the Kurds, even for a while. Amazing that he has been able to cut off aid to that awful UNWRA and the PLO. We Jews and pro-Israel Gentiles should get off his back. There are enough people piling on it already.

  6. As one military member from the Pentagon said, ” I am aghast and ashamed as I trained and fought alongside of the Kurds who we have now betrayed.

    The USA military strategy is have partners around the world but now they will believe that only as long as it is convenient will the USA be with us.”

    The USA has no more military strategy under Trump and no direction except to abandon allies.”

    Truly sad state of affairs.

  7. @ Bear Klein:

    Trump is basically allowing this to occur. ISIS will benefit. Iran has watched the USA under Trump back away from conflict when its drone was shot down plus attacks on US facilities in Iraq. So they will be emboldened.

    It is very clear that strength and safety does not occur when weakness and betrayal of allies is exhibited.

    I agree with you totally. But most of Trump’s base have thrown away principles to become blind followers. Since when is it an American principle to throw vulnerable allies to the wolves because we’re tired of fighting? I don’t at all like where the conservative movement is at regarding foreign affairs and national security, to become what Mark Levin calls “code pink” Republicans. I am a Reaganite. Trump is thousands of times better than any democrat, but he’s no Reagan. Ronald Reagan had solid principles and stood up for freedom fighters around the world without getting us tied up in “endless wars”.

  8. @ Adam Dalgliesh:
    Fuck Turkey. They are not our friends and should be kicked out of NATO ASAP. Obviously Trump is far better than any democrat, but unlike you my support for him isn’t blind. When he is wrong I will say so. You on the other hand twist yourself into knots defending this indefensible decision to leave the Kurds to slaughter. Yamit makes an excellent point that we have thousands of troops defending wealthy European countries, Japan and South Korea yet Trump is choosing to abandon the stateless, defenseless oppressed Kurds who have actually been good allies and love America unlike those above mentioned countries. I cannot find any justification for this.

  9. @ Adam Dalgliesh:
    Regarding the excuses and justifications for Trump’s Syria decision on this site, it is clear that Trump is at heart an isolationist and doesn’t care about the consequences to the Kurds.

  10. Nothing like allowing ethnic cleansing of USA allies to bolster the enemies of the USA.

    Erodgan intends to replace the Kurds in NE Syria with Sunni Arabs now in Turkey as refugees of the war. He has announced this.

    Trump is basically allowing this to occur. ISIS will benefit. Iran has watched the USA under Trump back away from conflict when its drone was shot down plus attacks on US facilities in Iraq. So they will be emboldened.

    It is very clear that strength and safety does not occur when weakness and betrayal of allies is exhibited. It is clear why John Bolton did not mesh with this White House.

  11. The likelihood that the Turks will free the ISIS prisoners and collaborate with ISIS is of course the most serious objection that has been made to Trump’s Syrian decision. But the Kurds have options that could minimize this danger. They could free the women and children in these camps, and then march the men off to one of the “sanctuary” areas that they still control outside the Turks “safe zone.” They could just shoot the male prisoners. Yes, they would face expressions of international outrage, but none of the great powers would in practice object. The Kurds could hand over the prisoners to
    the Iraqi Shi’ite regime, which has stationed troops along the Syrian border. The Iraqi Shi’ites would probably make short work of the ISIS prisoners, and have the means of doing so in secret, without attracting much international attention. And if the Turks do permit an ISIS revival in their occupation zone, the US could retaliate by imposing sanctions on them. This may be one of the “out of bounds” possible future actions by Turkey that Trump was referring to when he said that he might impose economic sanctions on it if it took actions that were unacceptable to him.

  12. Still another “wrinkle” in the Syrian-Iraqi mess which Trump must consider is that the Iraqi Kurdish leadership and the Syrian-Turkish Kurdish leadership get on badly with each other. The Iraqi Kurds want to appease both Turkey and Iran in order to survive in Iranian-dominated Iraq. They blame their Syrian-Turkish-Kurdish counterparts for putting them in jeopardy of Iranian, Iranian-dominated Iraqi, and Turkish forces retaliations. The Iraqi Kurds are also politically and religiously conservative, and deplore the militant secularism and Communism of the Syrian-Turkish Kurds. The U.S. needs the support of the Iraqi Kurds to maintain some degree of influence, and air bases, in Iraq. Tolerating the Turkish invasion of Syria, now that the U.S. has very few soldiers in either country, seems to be the least of many evils for the U.S. as Trump tries to minimize U.S. military involvement in these countries. He wants to end U.S. military involvement in Syria and keep it to a bare minimum in Iraq.

  13. Whether one agrees with Trump’s decisions with respect to northeast Syria or not, they are part of a consistent policy that he has pursued over the past three years. He has been very open and public about it. So know one should be surprised in the slightest. It wass completely predictable, and in fact had been announced last year. No one in aposition of authority in either the uSG or foreign governments was “blindsided.”

    This Trumpean foreign policy has four elements: a) wind down U.S. military involvements abroad, including in Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan. b) Use economic sanctions, or even tariffs, to pressure foreign governments to end hostile behavior towards the United States, while avoiding the use of military force against adversaries. c) be open to making deals with adversaries and negotiating with them if they show some willingness to end their hostile behavior.d) Shore up if at all possible America’s established, traditional alliances and friendships with foreign countries. All four of these elements came into play in the decision to withdraw the remaining U.S. troops in Syria and to permit Erdogan’s long-announced invasion of Syria to roceed after a year’s delay.

    Trump is not eager to end America’s alliance with Turkey, which goes back to 1947-48. Turkey has been a member of NATO since 1952.

    The U.S. military wants to keep its major airbase in Incerlik in eastern Turkey (in the Kurdish-populated region), which Erdogan could force the U.S. to evacuate whenever he chooses. The airbase could be very useful to the U.S. for countering aggressive moves by Iran.

    The U.S. does not want Turkey to form a close military alliance with Russia. Erdogan has made it clear that Turkey will “go over” to the Russians unless the U.S. accedes to his demands in Syria.

    U.S. support for the Turks in their war with the Kurdish internal rebels within Turkey goes back to the Bush 41 administration if not earlier. And the Syrian Kurdish leaders are closely aligned with the Turkish-Kurdish leadership. U.S. support for the Syrian Kurds has run counter to the Turkish-NATO alliance. The U.S. has never committed itself to Kurdish independence or even autonomy. At some point, the U.S. had to choose between its alliance with Turkey and its alliance with the Syrian Kurds. The State Department, the CIA, and I think even the Pentagon (despite their hypocritical denials) all prioritize attempting to preserve the alliance with Turkey over preserving the U.S. alliance with the Kurds.

    The U.S. had no means of preventing the Turkish invasion. Even the threat of economic sanctions may not have deterred Erdogan. Nor is there any guarantee that they would have caused Erdogan’s fall. He has purged all possible enemies from the army, the police and government, making it very difficult to overthrow him.

    The Turkish occupation makes it difficult for Assad to consolidate his hold on Syria. It enables the Syrian Sunni Arab “opposition” to continue to exist and oppose Assad. These are also longstanding U.S. goals, going back to the outbreak of the Syrian civil war in 2011, during the Obama administration.

    The Turkish invasion has driven a wedge between Turkey and Iran, which does not want to facilitate Turkish assistance to the Sunni Arabs in Syria and Iraq, or place an obstacle to the “Shi’ite corridor” to the Mediterranean. Turkey is Sunni, and Erdogan has been opposed to the Shi’te domination of Syria and Iraq, which Iran favors. Of course, hindering the rapproachment between Syria and Iran is an American interest.

    Last but not least, many officials in Washington are leary of the Syrian and Turkish Kurds open and avowed committment to Communist and Marxist -Leninist ideology. The fall of the Soviet Union reduced U.S. concern about the spread of Communism, but did not entirely end it.

    I still disagree with Trump’s decision. I think the U.S. should support Kurdish independence, in spite of the possible drawbacks. The Kurds are an oppressed people with the right of self-determination. I think the U.S. should do everything possible to bring about regime change in Turkey, including economic sanctions and an end to all military aid. But I repect the fact that Trump is following the policies he has persistently and publicly pursued for the last three years. He has never promised to follow my preferred policies in Syria and Iraq, or those of the Netanyahu administration.administration in Israel. With Trump, what you see is what you get.

  14. @ Bear Klein:
    Spyer is always worth reading. He makes no mention of the Coalition that Conrad Black wrote about. I have independant information that such a coalition is being cemented.
    Trump is putting this coalition together to prevent what Spyer and the rest of us worry about.

  15. Johnathan Spyer,Israel’s foremost expert (if not in the whole world) on the Syria, Iraqi, Kurdish areas who has traveled there many times recently writes the following:

    The way appears to have been cleared for an invasion of north east Syria by Turkey and its allied Sunni Islamist militias. If such an invasion takes place, it will end one of the more successful partnerships achieved by US military diplomacy in recent years- namely that between the United States Armed Forces and the Kurdish Peoples’ Protection Units (YPG). It will also have profound implications, both strategic and tactical, for the US in the Middle East, and for the strategic balance in the region as a whole.

    In June, I sat with a senior Syrian Kurdish official in the Iraqi Kurdish city of Suleymaniya. Did he expect, I asked him, that US forces would withdraw from the area under de facto joint US-Kurdish control? The man’s answer avoided emotionalism or rhetoric. ‘I don’t know. We hope not. But they may well leave,’ he said, before adding: ‘If they do, we have made it clear that the following day we will make a deal with the regime.’

    In April 2017, I asked a Palestinian activist supporter of the Syrian regime in Aleppo how Damascus would secure the return of the lands then and currently under the control of the Syrian Kurds and the US. ‘We don’t know,’ was his honest reply. ‘But we know that we will be returning there.’

    Both men now have an answer to the questions that were perplexing them. Only the regime supporter is likely to be pleased with the outcome.

    If Turkish and allied forces enter northern Syria, the immediate Kurdish concern will be at the prospect of widespread ethnic cleansing. The fear is well founded. Around 200,000 Syrian Kurds fled the advancing Turkish army and its Sunni allies when Erdogan destroyed the Kurdish Afrin canton in north west Syria in January, 2018. The Kurds expect that a repeat of this operation on a larger scale is currently brewing to the east.

    To avoid it, they are likely (as my interlocutor in Suleimania suggested) to permit the Russians, the Assad regime and its Iranian allies to enter the areas presently under their control.

    There is no love lost whatsoever between the Assad regime and the Syrian Kurds. But Assad, the Russians and the Iranians have no interest in a large scale ethnic cleansing of Kurds, of the type a Turkish invasion is likely to produce.

    Following the US announcement, there were already reports of a movement of regime and Russian forces toward the city of Manbij. An unseemly race for the spoils between the regime/Russians/Iranians and the Turks/jihadis appears set to start. The latest confused reports from the area suggest that a Turkish force has already penetrated the border in the Tel Abyad-Ras al-Ain area. ISIS, meanwhile, has emerged in Raqqa and is attacking SDF positions in the city.

    Should the southern part of the area east of the Euphrates fall to the regime and its allies, the result will be the consolidation by Iran of its ‘land bridge’ from the Iraq-Iran border to Lebanon, the Mediterranean and the border with Israel. With pro-Iranian militias currently suppressing dissent in Baghdad, this will leave the Iran-led regional alliance as the major victor of the turbulent events in the Levant over the last decade.

    Full commentary (see link) below
    https://jonathanspyer.com/2019/10/09/some-further-thoughts-on-the-situation-in-northern-syria/

  16. Turkey launches military assault in Syria as Kurdish fighters say warplanes are bombing region

    A planned Turkish military operation in northern Syria has now begun, the country’s president announced Wednesday, as Kurdish fighters say warplanes are already bombing civilian areas in the region.

    President Recep Tayyip Erdogan tweeted that the maneuvers being carried out against Syrian Kurdish forces – which Ankara considers terrorists allied with a Kurdish insurgency within Turkey – are part of Operation Peace Spring.

    Civilians fleeing area. NO visible Syrian or Russian Support of Kurds. ISIS terrorists numbering 11K likely to get free.

    NO USA air support of KUIRDS today!

    Full story at https://www.foxnews.com/world/turkey-syria-kurdish-troops-military-assault

  17. Trump is pulling back from the middle east period. This his goal verbally expressed that the USA can NOT be in endless wars. His actions back his words.

    Turkey today is blasting the Kurds in Syria with air-power and artillery they intend to take over parts of Northern Syria which should be Kurdistan.

    The Kurds say Trump has stabbed them in the back.

    Blind Trump supporters can make up whatever hypothetical’s to make them feel good about what is going on. Many of the GOP are also not silent about Trump’s horrible decision to abandon the Kurd allies to the fate of bombs without the US air-force and artillery to support it.

    Israel really needs to make sure it does what is necessary to defend itself as it has always done because it has NO dependable allies.

  18. Ted writes above (better late than never I suppose but that was my position in 2016) {but this is NOT 2016}

    “I am hoping that the larger deal is that the US has agreed to remove itself from the lands east of the Euphrates and retrurn control to Syria. Syria with Russian backing have agreed that Kurdistan will have autonomy in federated Syria. Perhaps the Turks have been given a safe zone providing they take responsibility for the ISIS prisoners held there. Finally Russia and Syria have agreed to push Iran out.”

    As Yamit has said offering the IS prisoners the safekeeping of IS prisoners is a complete loco moment. That is the same Turkey who worked with ISIS in every way and the brother of Erdogan making a great fortune out of ISIS oil smuggling. Yes that will turn out well.

    But 3 years ago Ted you were silent.

    That is silent when I noted that in his talk with Michael Savage on his show on the night of the election count in November 2016 Trump said this to Savage.

    That is the thing Ted you are silent at the most critical of times and I can go on about this but perhaps should not, but events in 2005 come to mind.

    So when I then suggested here that perhaps the real alliance for success would be Israel, Kurds, Russia and Assad against ISIS on the understanding that Iran be excluded from influence of any kind in these countries Yamit intervened and you were silent inside of that intervention.

    by the way I also said (many times) that in that context autonomy to the Kurds was very realistic and that Assad, who is no friend of the Turks, would agree.

    It still makes sense to me.

    All of these Arab leaders after what happened to (African but same thing) Gaghbo in Ivory Coast, Ben Ali, Saddam, Mubarak and Gadhafi are petrified and that is why they would agree to any practical solution.

    But you were silent on that Ted. I found myself in the midst of great silence.

    Yamit then came in spouting things like “has there ever been a dictator that Felix has not wanted to have an alliance with???”

    Total silence from all.

    Now 3 to 4 years later, an eternity, with the ISIS experience and more, Ted comes out with the above position.

    Could we not have saved some time, never mind many beheadings and crucifixations of the likes of the Yazedis and Kurds?

    The reality…America is becoming Fascist and this fact is causing huge gyrations among leaders. Trump is an expression of this crisis.

    The Fascism comes in two forms. First there is the Democrats and they have been leading the charge towards Fascism. Everything about the machinations of leaders like Schiff is Fascist.

    But there is another side and that is exhibited by Breitbart and Infowars and others that I am watching closely, many of the latter claiming to be left wing.

    And this side is being exhibited on Israpundit and takes the form of a denial of the validity of climate science. denial of science is what fascism is all about.

    America is breaking up due tot he Fascism of the likes of Pelossi and Schiff, AOC and others.

    But the other side, that is the Trump side, are liars to the very end also, and this is shown in how they address the Global warming issue…lie after lie after lie.

    the result of all this. Jews will be destroyed by this American Imperialism and Jews under Belman and Netanyahu types are closely integrated into this American Imperialism.

  19. Let’s look at the larger picture which involves the containment and pushback of Iran. It is not clear yet who is stiring up the protests in Iraq. These protests are not limited to young people asking for the end of corruption. I believe there is an attempt by someone working with the Iraq Army to oust the the Iran controlled militias.. So watch for more info on this.

    Now for a couple of years at least the US, Russia, Turkey and Syria have been trying to cut a deal. The US has not favoured an independant Kurdistan but an autonomous Kurdistan as part of Syria.. They have also been trying to oust Iran from Syria. I think they have quietly arrived at a deal but because of the Democrat attempts to point to collusion between Russia and Trump, Trump did not want to add fuel to the fire.

    So Trump’s announcement that he was pulling out some of the 1000 troops there and replacing them with Turkey, was an attempt to cover a larger deal.

    I am hoping that the larger deal is that the US has agreed to remove itself from the lands east of the Euphrates and retrurn control to Syria. Syria with Russian backing have agreed that Kurdistan will have autonomy in federated Syria. Perhaps the Turks have been given a safe zone providing they take responsibility for the ISIS prisoners held there. Finally Russia and Syria have agreed to push Iran out.

    Lets see if I am correct in any of this.

  20. @ yamit82:
    I buy a lot of what you are saying about Trump. Trump is a good tactician. In other words if there is a specific fight he is tough and tends to win his conflicts.

    He gets business and the economy those are his strong points. He is NOT a Geo-politcal strategist. He is not a Henry Kissinger.

    He has a belief system on US insolvent overseas that is closer to an isolationist than to a Neo-con. In other words closer to Rand Paul than Lindsey Graham.
    He is highly unpredictable. Those that love him will say that is his genius. It also means he is not reliable with allies nor easy to work for.

    Trump is sure better than any of the Dem likely POTUS candidates without comparison no matter what his imperfections maybe.

  21. Ted Belman Said:

    We have a choice here. Either Trump is as stupid as his critics say he is or he is very smart and we don’t really know what is going on here.

    He is both smart and very stupid all depends on the subject and timing… Trump is more reactive than proactive. He is always on the defensive and much of his problems are self-inflicted.

  22. Whenever Trump is under domestic political pressure he tries to divert attention and the subject away from his main problem. What’s the big deal for America and Trump to have military specialists doing a useful and necessary function with almost zero casualties outside of accidents. The Kurds in Syria control almost a third of Syria and on paper could make a bid and be in a strong position to gain some form of regional autonomy if America backs them up. Kurds can block Iranian land bridge to Lebanon and provide anti-Iranian forces secure bases and safe havens. They also provide the USA a seat at the table for the end of conflict negotiations with equal status with Russia Iran Assad and Erdogan.

    Trumps’ stated public reasoning makes little sense…. 1- Very small military footprint in Syria and almost zero casualties in 4 years of fighting and involvement. Trump is keeping forces in Iraq and still has 14000 troops in Afghanistan… 2- Thousands of special ops in Africa and Asia. # hundreds of thousands of troops in Europe and especially in Germany.. If bringing the boys home why not bring the Troops in Germany home and save hundreds of $$ dollars each year? Same with Japan and Okinawa etc.

    No, I don’t buy the BS and spin he is offering and changing by the hour…

    With Friends Like the U.S.
    The Kurds helped to defeat ISIS. Trump leaves them to Erdogan.

    Mr. Trump compounded the injury with insult when he tweeted Monday morning that the “Kurds fought with us, but were paid massive amounts of money and equipment to do so.” For Mr. Trump, foreign policy is always a transaction, never a matter of principle.

    The Kurds also have taken on the role of the jailer of last resort for the thousands of captured ISIS fighters (11000) no one else wants to house. It’s not clear who, if anyone, will assume that responsibility now that the U.S. is withdrawing.
    https://www.wsj.com/a…/with-friends-like-the-u-s-11570488438

    Note: The Kurds in revenge can just let all ISIS prisoners go, reversing all gains by Trump and the Kurds themselves. Forcing Trump to reenter Syria and Iraq in force and begin to di it all over again but this time without the help of the Kurds or anyone else. If Erdogan gets control of ISIS prisoners he could and would blackmail America and the west with the threat to release them some to Europe and America… Is this a case of penny-wise pound-foolish?

    Yes, Belman Trump is that stupid. He is mercurial, whimsical and autocratic…Arrogant to a fault and does not take advice when it conflicts with his gut feeling at any moment. Campaign promises that no one cares about are BS… In 3 years only 200 miles of wall and less than 100 miles in new wall construction. Drugs still pouring in, illegals still pouring in, human trafficking unabated. NOKO not bending and there is no real military option or threat. Same with Iran. China will wait him out no trade deal yet. Leaving out the Trump and GOP spin Trump has few real or big successes… so far many iffs like trade deals with Mexico not yet ratified by congress. In a normal admin, there are professionals that work with the Congress to advance legislative agendas that seem to be absent in Trump admin. After watching his moves in Syria (Taking full credit for defeating the Caliphate) I worry for Israel with him as president we are like the Kurds to be dispatched if he determines it is to his personal benefit based on his MOD of transactional politics and international relationships. Cui bono ????

  23. Whenever Trump is under domestic political pressure he tries to divert attention and the subject away from his main problem. What’s the big deal for America and Trump to have military specialists doing a useful and necessary function with almost zero casualties outside of accidents. The Kurds in Syria control almost a third of Syria and on paper could make a bid and be in a strong position to gain some form of regional autonomy if America backs them up. Kurds can block Iranian land bridge to Lebanon and provide anti-Iranian forces secure bases and safe havens. They also provide the USA a seat at the table for the end of conflict negotiations with equal status with Russia Iran Assad and Erdogan.

    Trumps’ stated public reasoning makes little sense…. 1- Very small military footprint in Syria and almost zero casualties in 4 years of fighting and involvement. Trump is keeping forces in Iraq and still has 14000 troops in Afghanistan… 2- Thousands of special ops in Africa and Asia. # hundreds of thousands of troops in Europe and especially in Germany.. If bringing the boys home why not bring the Troops in Germany home and save hundreds of $$ dollars each year? Same with Japan and Okinawa etc.

    No, I don’t buy the BS and spin he is offering and changing by the hour…

    With Friends Like the U.S.
    The Kurds helped to defeat ISIS. Trump leaves them to Erdogan.

    Mr. Trump compounded the injury with insult when he tweeted Monday morning that the “Kurds fought with us, but were paid massive amounts of money and equipment to do so.” For Mr. Trump, foreign policy is always a transaction, never a matter of principle.

    The Kurds also have taken on the role of the jailer of last resort for the thousands of captured ISIS fighters (11000) no one else wants to house. It’s not clear who, if anyone, will assume that responsibility now that the U.S. is withdrawing.
    https://www.wsj.com/a…/with-friends-like-the-u-s-11570488438

    Note: The Kurds in revenge can just let all ISIS prisoners go, reversing all gains by Trump and the Kurds themselves. Forcing Trump to reenter Syria and Iraq in force and begin to di it all over again but this time without the help of the Kurds or anyone else. If Erdogan gets control of ISIS prisoners he could and would blackmail America and the west with the threat to release them some to Europe and America… Is this a case of penny-wise pound-foolish?

    Yes, Belman Trump is that stupid. He is mercurial, whimsical and autocratic…Arrogant to a fault and does not take advice when it conflicts with his gut feeling at any moment. Campaign promises that no one cares about are BS… In 3 years only 200 miles of wall and less than 100 miles in new wall construction. Drugs still pouring in, illegals still pouring in, human trafficking unabated. NOKO not bending and there is no real military option or threat. Same with Iran. China will wait him out no trade deal yet. Leaving out the Trump and GOP spin Trump has few real or big successes… so far many iffs like trade deals with Mexico not yet ratified by congress. In a normal admin, there are professionals that work with the Congress to advance legislative agendas that seem to be absent in Trump admin. After watching his moves in Syria (Taking full credit for defeating the Caliphate) I worry for Israel with him as president we are like the Kurds to be dispatched if he determines it is to his personal benefit based on his MOD of transactional politics and international relationships. Cui bono ????

  24. Kurds are NOT at all convinced. They believe they are being dumped by Trump. This is also being reported by people who know the Kurds in the line of fire personally. They see no great master stroke they think they have been left to face the Turkish military after losing 11,000 fighters in the battle against ISIS will fighting together with the USA military.

    Separately the following relates to a major screw up by Trump if accurate.

    BEIRUT (AP) — The American pullback from parts of northeastern Syria could help breathe new life into the Islamic State group if fighting erupts between the Kurds and Turkey.

    Syrian Kurdish authorities are already struggling to guard IS fighters captured during the long U.S.-backed campaign against the militants and to keep a lid on IS supporters and family members thronging displacement camps. Their hold will suffer even more if they are fighting Turkey.

    The White House has said Turkey will take over responsibility for the thousands of imprisoned fighters. But it is not clear how that will happen, if it all, given that the Kurdish forces are Turkey’s nemesis.

    Turkey is sending troops along the border in preparation for an offensive against the Syrian Kurds. Ankara has said it wants to impose a zone of control potentially 30 kilometers (19 miles) deep that would stretch the length of the border. The Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces have vowed to fight back.

    Here is a look at what is at stake and why IS stands to gain.

    MILITANTS IN DETENTION

    Angered by the sudden pullback of U.S. troops, Kurdish officials sounded the alarm that, to fight any Turkish assault, they will have to divert their forces away from guarding IS prisoners. That raises security concerns at a time when the Islamic State group’s leader, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, has called on followers to do all they can to free captured fighters held in jails and families living in camps.

    Kurdish authorities run more than two dozen detention facilities, scattered around northeastern Syria, holding about 10,000 IS fighters. Among the detainees are some 2,000 foreigners, including about 800 Europeans.

    Most of the facilities are unidentified and unmarked, some of them set up in abandoned or repurposed buildings; others are mobile “pop-up prisons.” Some are reportedly close to the border, which may make them vulnerable to being hit in clashes or bombardment.

    Guarding those facilities has long been a strain on the Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces as it juggles multiple tasks in the volatile area. The U.S-led coalition has said the force doesn’t have the capacity to detain thousands of fighters on its own — and the coalition may be helping to hold some of the most high-level militants.

    Read more: US Pullback Could Boost Islamic State Group Revival in Syria | Newsmax.com

  25. Assad has announced his opposition to the Turkish move, and there is some speculation that his troops might even join with the Kurds in attempting to block it. This would put Iran and Russia, which are major backers of Assad, but who also have been trying to improve their relationship with Turkey, on the spot. I am sure that Trump doesn’t mind creating a dilemma for Assad, Turkey, Russia and Iran.

  26. @ Ted Belman: I agree, Ted, that this was a well thought out move. I don’t believe that the Pentagon was “blindsided.” They may not have entirely agreed with Trump’s decision, but I am confident that their phone calls to the Turks over several days before the decision was announced were coordinated with him. And I think he told them exactly what he planned to say to Erdogan in advance.

    Bolton was the main voice in opposition to U.S. withdrawal in the administration. He is and always has been a “hawk,” believing that u.S. military power should be used against hostile states. But Trump accepted his resignation, in part because of their disagreements about Syria. Without Bolton to advocate for the Pentagon’s reservations about withdrawal, it was inevitable that at some point Trump would go through with his plan, which he announced publicly a year ago. And once he did, he had no way to prevent Erdogan’s long-planned invasion of Syria, which he, Erdogan, had also announced last year.

    There is also a bit of hypocrisy here. It is DOD and the CIA who have insisted that the U.S maintain its traditional alliance with Turkey, despite Trump’s skepticism. Once Trump decided to withdraw, they would certainly have advised him to go ahead with giving Erdogan ‘permission” to invade, in order to appease him (Erdogan).

    It should be pointed out that despite their complaints about Trump’s betrayal, the Kurds have already withdrawn most of their soldiers and all of their heavy weapons from Turkey’s “safe” zone, according to their own statement. This makes a major military confrontation with Turkey unlikely.

    And we should not forget that the Syrian Kurdish leadership has openly declared themselves to be Communists who want to institue the policies of the Bolshevik Revolution of 1917 in their area of control, even though the Russians themselves have long abandoned these policies. There are still people high up in the Trump administration, including Trump himself, who are very skeptical about Communism, and would prefer not to have a Communist regime in the Middle East.

  27. We have a choice here. Either Trump is as stupid as his critics say he is or he is very smart and we don’t really know what is going on here.

    For me, its a no-brainer. I pick the second choice.

  28. AI is a leftist, anti-Israel publication, as is the Christian Science Monitor and NPR, for whom this reporter previously worked. His report should therefore be treated with caution as to its accuracy. Trump is just following through on a decision he made in 2018. The Pentagon knew all about it then, and probably also knew just what Trump was going to do now. If Pentagon officials had been communicating with the Turks in the days leading up to Trump’s phone call to Erdogan, it is likely that they were preparing Erdogan for what Trump was going to tell him, and cautioning him (Erdogan) not to overplay his hand by committing atrocities in Syria.

  29. @ Ted Belman:You may be correct. Certainly correct on wait and see what occurs.

    Trump implied he had some deal with the Russians as he said something to the effect that without Russia’s cooperation he could NOT pull out.

  30. I urge everyone to remain skeptical.. I have been told its a bogus story. First of all, there are only 1000 US troops in Syria. For Trump to make such a big issue of the need to remove them tells us that something else is going on.

    Secondly, Trump did not provide details about what Turkey is allowed to do. Normally, such a new policy would not be spur of the moment in a phone call. Turkey’s rights would be detailed in a MOU after much negotiation.

    Finally, I haven’t heard of any PKK terrorism in Turkey for years. So there is no urgency for Turkey to act to defend themselves. Something else is going on here.

    Will Russia and Syria allow Turkey to invade. I think not. Perhaps Trump has cut a deal with them in which they grant the Kurds autonomy in Greater Syria. He is just setting it up and Turkey is a straw man.

    So let us not rush to believe this story holus bolus. Let’s wait for events to unfold.