T. Belman. Please note that Abu Dis with its population of 12,000, lies immediately to the east of Jerusalem including the eastern part, and to the south of Maale Adumin. It is 1.5 kilometers from the Al Aksa Mosque. Ramallah is 15 kilometers to the north and has a population of 57,000 Arabs. Both are outside of Jerusalem. Hebron on the other hand, lies 19 miles to the south of Jerusalem and has an Arab population of 216,000. Nablas with its Arab population of 126,000, lies 35 kilometers to the north of Ramallah.
The Save Jewish Jerusalem movement, calls for revoking the residency status of around 200,000 of the 313,000 residents of the Arab neighborhoods in the eastern part of the city, turning them over to the Palestinian Authority.
In other words, they propose dividing Greater Jerusalem (126.4 sq. km.) and transferring half of it (64 sq. km.) to the Palestinian Authority.
To this could be added Bethlehem with its population of over 100,000, of which only 12% are Christians, and Jericho with its population of 30,000 and distance to Amman of 45 kilometers. Those Arabs represent about 1/3 of the Arab population in J&S and Jerusalem.
It may well be that Kushner’s touted peace plan would incorporate all these municipalities, containing over 750,000 Arabs, into a block of land that would be annexed to Jordan in some fashion and together they would constitute the Palestinian state. Although these areas would be limited to their present boundries, there is ample land east of the Jordan R for growth..
By Yoni Ben Menachem, JCPA, JAN 10/18
- Mahmoud Abbas entirely rejects the option of Abu Dis or Ramallah serving as the Palestinian capital in an Israeli-Palestinian settlement, even though this possibility was discussed extensively in the past, and the Palestinian Authority began construction on the Palestinian parliamentary building in Abu Dis.
- The PA has done much to weaken its status in east Jerusalem, and when Abbas is replaced as PA chairman the names, Abu Dis and Ramallah, may again become relevant to an Israeli-Palestinian settlement.
On January 6, 2018, the Jerusalem committee of the Arab League, headed by Secretary-General Ahmed Abu Gheit, met in Amman to discuss President Trump’s declaration on Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.
According to Fatah sources, a heated debate broke out between Palestinian Foreign Minister Riyad al-Maliki and other Arab foreign ministers. Al-Maliki demanded that the committee adopt three significant resolutions:
- An end to the American role in the Israeli-Palestinian peace process.
- Rejection of any American plan or peace initiative until President Trump rescinds his declaration on Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.
- To implement the resolutions of the 1980 Arab summit conference, namely, imposing sanctions on any country that transfers its embassy to Jerusalem.
The Palestinian foreign minister’s demands were rejected entirely.
On January 7, 2017, Al-Araby al-Jadeed reported that Saudi Arabia and Egypt had politely requested of the Palestinian foreign minister not to ask them to adopt any resolution against the United States. In reaction, al-Maliki boycotted the press conference held by Secretary-General Abu Gheit and Jordanian Foreign Minister Ayman Safadi.
A few minutes before the press conference, the third podium, which was intended for al-Maliki, was surprisingly removed. The Palestinian Authority (PA) suffered a severe setback in the Jerusalem committee’s discussions.
The Palestinians do not doubt that President Trump’s declaration on Jerusalem as the capital of Israel was meant to lower their expectations that the new political plan he is formulating will make Jerusalem their capital.
The Saudis and Egyptians Undermine the PA
Trump’s declaration was followed by a report in the New York Times that Saudi Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman had demanded that PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas agree that in the permanent settlement, Abu Dis would be the Palestinian capital. Then, another New York Times report said that at the behest of President Sisi, an Egyptian intelligence officer had instructed several Egyptian TV talk-show hosts to persuade the Egyptian public that the Palestinians should be pressured to accept Ramallah as their capital city.
These reports were strongly denied by Saudi Arabia and Egypt and dismissed as media spin aimed at harming the Saudi crown prince and the Egyptian president. The Palestinian “street” is, however, convinced that the reports are accurate despite the flat-out denials.
A month after Trump’s declaration on Jerusalem, the Palestinian public, Hamas, and the PA leadership are united in their consternation at the weakness of the Arab regimes, which, apart from denunciations and warnings, show no inclination to confront the Trump administration about Jerusalem on the Palestinians’ behalf.
Yet, any attempt at new Palestinian intifada is faltering, and the Palestinian street is starting to hear old/new locations like Abu Dis or Ramallah mentioned as a replacement for east Jerusalem as the capital of the future Palestinian state.
Senior Fatah sources say the names Abu Dis and Ramallah are beginning to percolate into Palestinian consciousness.
Ramallah already serves as the de facto PA capital. The Palestinian leadership under Abbas is based in the Muqata complex there, and all the government ministries and other PA institutions operate in the city.
Outside of Palestinian Authority government offices in Ramallah (2013)
The village of Abu Dis is making a return to the headlines. In 1995, it was mentioned as a possible Palestinian capital in understandings reached between Abbas and Yossi Beilin.
Those understandings included a plan to extend the municipal boundaries of Jerusalem, set up an over-arching city council, annex Abu Dis to the adjacent village of Azariya, and call them by the Arabic name Al-Quds.
The village of Abu Dis is 1.5 kilometers as the crow flies from the Al-Aqsa Mosque. Two weeks ago, Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh claimed he had learned that, in President Trump’s new plan, an overhead bridge would be built from Abu Dis to Al-Aqsa so that Muslims could freely come to pray at the mosques on the Temple Mount.
Abu Dis is the point that connects the northern and the southern West Bank. It is also the eastern entrance to Jerusalem, and in the other direction, it leads down to the Jordan Valley. According to the Oslo agreements, it is part of Area B which is under Israeli security control and Palestinian civilian control.
Already in 1996, construction began in Abu Dis for the parliamentary building of the Palestinian Legislative Council. In other words, the Palestinians did not always oppose the notion of Abu Dis serving at least temporarily as the capital of the Palestinian state.
One-third of the building was constructed on land within the municipal boundaries of Jerusalem.
The PA’s Holdings in Jerusalem
The signing of the Oslo agreements weakened the PLO’s demands concerning east Jerusalem as the capital of the future Palestinian state. The accords prohibit the PA from conducting any activity in east Jerusalem.
Some of the Palestinian institutions in east Jerusalem were closed by Israel. The best-known case is that of Orient House (Beit A-Sharq), from which senior Palestinian official Faisal Husseini and his staff operated.
The PA itself has closed institutions and associations operating in east Jerusalem, such as the Palestinian Journalists Associations, the General Workers Union, the staffs of the newspapers Al-Fajr and A-Shav, and the Palestinian weekly Al-Awda.
Other, smaller Palestinian institutions closed themselves down because of a lack of funds. The Shin Bet and the Israel Police have worked to keep members of the Palestinian security mechanisms from operating the city in violation of the Oslo agreements.
At present, there is seemingly no possibility that Abu Dis and Ramallah will play an essential role in a future Israeli-Palestinian settlement. The wave of Palestinian and Arab protest still has not died down completely, and the Palestinians may need incentives to begin to adjust to such a possibility. It was not for nothing that President Trump said Israel would pay the price for his declaration of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital.
Palestinian Pragmatism Required
The Trump administration has been holding indirect contacts with the PA to soften its opposition to the president’s declaration. The more the Arab countries downplay the issue, the more the Palestinian leadership will realize that it is standing alone on the matter. At the moment there is no Arab conference on Jerusalem on the agenda, and the discussion might only be renewed at the Arab summit conference in Saudi Arabia in March 2018.
In addressing the status of Jerusalem, Trump’s declaration touched upon one of the red lines for Israel and the Palestinians. Yet, Arab leaders did not fall off their chairs. There has been no real change on the ground, and the administration has conveyed messages to the PA that if the Palestinians return to the negotiating table, it will be prepared to discuss the boundaries of east Jerusalem.
At the moment Abbas is taking a harder line on the Jerusalem issue than Yasser Arafat took. Abbas has already passed the age of 82, and the countdown for the end of his political career has begun.
It is possible that his successor will show greater pragmatism and accept a long-term interim agreement, spanning 10 to 15 years, which will skirt the most difficult issues of the permanent settlement. If so, Abu Dis and Ramallah may become relevant once again to an Israeli-Palestinian settlement.
@ yamit82:
Your highlight portion is for what…. ?? You don’t cover it in your excessive and long post. The political leanings of Assad are not important, he was a scholar not a politician. I agreed with Felix’ suggestion that an alliance between him, the US and Israel would have been better all round. for obvious reasons. As far as Israel is concerned, he left us alone for as long as he’s been in power, thrust on him by the assassination of his brother Gemayal who was trained all his life to succeed his father. Bashar was a background nonentity.
As for him being a “mass murderer….maybe…..but WHY…?? It takes two to tango.and the enemies he’s fighting a death battle with have killed their fair share as well. No doubt about that. But they are never mentioned when murderer” is brought into the discussion. His troops have been killing and being killed, so that they’d become depleted, before Hezbollah increased their assistance. And with Hezbollah came Iran.
I deeply respect your opinion especially as I regard it as being actual information, but sometimes a bit overstated and hyperbolic, in your effort to put down your blog opponent (s). You sometimes quote points that we have no way of confirming. I am satisfied to take them.mostly- at face value, but some…….sound a bit intemperate to me. We all haven’t had the benefit of experiences you’ve had.
Felix Quigley Said:
A- all Commies are fascists!
B- Islam like communism is fascist
Think of Islam as Communism with a god (small g). Islam is mostly a fascist political ideology whose main goal is a one world government under one law Sharia. They will use brutal violence to that end or if weak by stealth. Understand Militant Islam lay dormant for centuries.
Note well and bear in mind: the concept and urge to jihad was re-ignited after a long slumber by the British after WW I. Initially this was a Round Table project to enable them to, 1) arrange a British Protectorate in the Middle East “with its front door on the Mediterannean,” 2) keep Russia away from the southern oceans and the natural resources of the area, and last but not least, 3) to suppress and cripple the rise of a sovereign Jewish nation, the only genuine nation within the collapsed Ottoman Empire which could be a source of regional prosperity, independence from great power machinations and a shock to the entire identity project of the West which it posits itself as the inheritor of Scriptural promise; which in various forms proclaims itself to be ‘the true Israel.” The West, Edom, is based on mass identity theft & fraud. This generates extreme dynamism, instability, aggression and self-destruction as the culture strains to maintain its false image, its identity fraud
Edgar G. Said:
Since 1948 we have fought 3 major wars with Syria …ISIS none so there is a track record and history re Syria. Syria as a proxy of Iran and Russia along with his 100k missiles make his a serious existential enemy… ISIS never was or could be in their current configuration as ad hoc primitive military configuration and with only max 40-60 K fighters all over the ME…..It was only a few years ago Israel discovered clandestine Nuke reactor being built by Assad and destroyed not ISIS. Syria has chemical and bio producing factories and knowhow ISIS not….so I don’t comprehend your position.
@ Bear Klein:
Bagdadi was a graduate of CIA U prison (3 yrs) in Iraq released to form
ISIS in order to topple Assad…..He received his weapons and training from CIA in Jordan….Benghazi was a gun running op similar to Iran Contra using al Qaeda operatives from Iraq ….. Now did Bagdadi turn on the CIA or carry out their directives?
Felix Quigley Said:
The Hitler-Stalin pact pales by comparison with the Assad-Quigley Alliance.
Insane Commie Bigotry Intersects With Totalitarian Lunacy.
It is reminiscent of Abbott And Costello Meet Dracula And The Wolfman.
The implications are terrifying.
@ Felix Quigley:
Don’t know where to begin having hard time stopping laughing at your gibberish, 😛
@ Edgar G.:
Agree with you and disagree with Kline…..There are few christians who volunteer for IDF and we really don’t need them….. There are other minority groups in IDF we don’t need either. A few things to understand about Arabs… Their primary loyalties are to family and clan not the state that many do not recognize in spirit and in fact. No Arab who identifies as ‘Palestinian’ should not only be denied entrance into the IDF they should not be allowed citizenship because the concept is political & anti-Israel. They will always be conflicted with dual loyalties and unsuitable to be included in the Israeli collective…IMO they should be outlawed and removed over the nearest border now controlled by the PA.
Having worked closely with christian Arabs I have found their hatred for Jews and Israel greater than MUSLIM Arabs
@ Michael S:
Agree with all except your stated reason For Trump’s going after ISIS (A CIA/Saudi creation) as being to protect christians….. The Kurds and Russia did more to decimate ISIS in Syria than did America….. The defeat of ISIS was a campaign promise and Trump keeps checking off his promise list… Promises Made Promises Kept. Trump was and is opposed to direct military involvement in the ME…. prefers others to do the fighting. McMasters wated to inject 150k American troops in Syria and Trump rejected the idea one of main reasons he dumped him.
There can be no peace between Israel and the “Palestinians” because nobody wants peace and to have peace you first need to have some common definition of Peace… There is no such thing nor can there be….. I say to Ted, If you believe the Palestinians want peace sincerely then give them what they demand. If you don’t… then don’t give them anything but cold steel. We don’t need no piece agreements we can out last them even if it takes another 500 years….We lose more Israelis to traffic accidents than to terror and conflicts with Palestinians. We are thriving despite the conflict and nobody will love us were we to give into them…. We gain next to nothing with much to lose.
@ Ted Belman:
1000 Tanks with napalm flamethrowers will also incentivize Arabs to leave and it’s cost effective. My idea is 1000 X more realistic than yours More likely as well 🙂
@ Bear Klein:
No I didn’t read it til now. Yes it contains one or two ad hominen attacks.
@ :
You have 4 minutes to corect your posts. After that, write to me.
@ Ted Belman:
Have you read what Felix wrote above? How would you describe it?
I know no polite language to describe it! Normally I just ignore the ramblings mixed in with insults. I am only pointing this out now as you are commenting on Yamit’s language. Back to ignoring the f__l!
The Jordan Option as described over the last year on Israpundit is where I stand. In writing my preface to this article I was contrasting what Trump might be thinking of with my plan. After all he is the decider.Ted Belman Said:
I do not mean that it is too costly. I mean it is a huge task to get 2 million Arabs to emmigrate. It is not a done deal. So I was postulating that maybe a move that would get rid of 1/3 of the Arabs is worth considering because that’s where Trump seems to be going.
@ Bear Klein:
The foremost expert of the Syrian War and related regional developments is an Israeli (British originally) Jonathan Spyer. He writes prolifically and has a book out on this. You can see a recent youtube video on this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEmD1gUKnOA
yamit82 Said:
Such attacks are totally unacceptable. Had I noticed it when you made it I would have deleted the whoe comment as I did with one of Quigley’s.
@ Edgar G.:
The USA and its allies were attached by Russian Mercenaries (so Putin has deniability who is attacking just like the Ukraine). I have read numerous reports about a battle early in the year where 500 Russians attacked the USA across the Euphrates along with SDF allies (Kurds mostly) and had their asses handed to them. In other words USA F22s and artillery killed over 200 in the end according some reports.
This is what Yamit was referring to. He and I do not always concur on subjects and his tone nowadays is mellow but what he wrote Felix was spot on! All Jewish Israelis left, center and right concur who the enemies are in Syria. Israelis know who Assad is. He has supplied the Hezis for years with weapons. The Golan was quiet because of the power of the IDF was a deterrent to direct engagement, not because Assad was looking for peace.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-13/u-s-strikes-said-to-kill-scores-of-russian-fighters-in-syria
@ Edgar G.:
Yes, you are correct we will probably have to agree to differ. As I said before I understand your difficulty with trusting Arabs. However, if you have no carrots for normal cooperative co-existence you make enemies of them all.
The Christian Arab community in Israel for one now has young people volunteering for the IDF because they feel part of the state of Israel. There are other examples. Yes one could find examples of dangerous people or traitors.
Also if you do not do this or something similar you will have a hard time in Israel getting support from the populace of Israel. It is not realistic to believe that all the Arabs are going to leave. I envision the application process after 10 years of residency when the entire family must pass backgrounds checks to very stringent plus very few will apply as is the case in the Arab population of Jerusalem.
I’m playing catch-up here. Just scanned everyone’s post.
Ted:
Abu Dis as the Palestinian capital? I can already imagine mortars, rockets, drones and flaming kites coming out of it. I don’t think the idea will get very far. Maybe Kushner & Co. might propose it, but I don’t see any “Palestinian” party accepting it; so no matter how one looks at it, it seems like a non-starter.
“Workable Plan”
I don’t have one; and even if I did, it’s none of my business. Theoretically, it is the Israeli Jews and Arab Muslims (particularly in Egypt, Israel and Jordan), as the most affected parties, who ought to come up with one. Throwing theory into dustbin where it belongs, though, the only solution to the world’s endless preoccupation with the “Palestinians” will be a decisive MILITARY victory by Israel over their Muslim enemies — most likely over the Turks and Iranians. This would have to be followed by expulsions of those who oppose Israel. It’s not pretty; but I can’t envision any other scenario as workable. As a famous Israpunditer says,
“There is no diplomatic solution”.
ISIS
Yamit is right; they were militarily beneficial to Israel, the “gift that keeps on giving”. Trump had no realistic choice, however, other that squashing them — not because of any perceived threat to Israel, but because of their obvious, immediate threat to Christians.
Assad.
God will do with him as He wills. I don’t have a dog in that fight.
God bless and keep you all.
@ Bear Klein:
Again you have a feasible Plan, and good except for that one non-negotiable (as far as I’m concerned) clause that Arabs can apply for citizenship. NO Arab can be trusted for his whole life. We have hundreds or maybe thousands of examples from the time the Jews began returning and were living side by side with Arabs.
I’m written this before; I have a couple of books which show pictures and give names, where Arab families and Jewish families lived together all their lives, kids running in and out of one another’s homes, sleeping there. And working in the fields together, the very best of lifelong friends. Then one day the Arab is gone, and the Jew is lying on the ground in the field, his sexual organs in his mouth, his body gutted or carved up in horrible ways. Arabs are NOT to be trusted. It’s just their genetic makeup. They go crazy, like the American Indians did after a drink of alcohol. The Koran is the Arab’s alcohol.
Bear, I’ve had this out with you before on the same subject, and i suppose we can agree to differ. But I’d hate for you to have your life or death in the hands of those good Arabs you talk about.. Especially after 100 years of brainwashing, the last 50 very intensively almost to madness.
The situation concerning Assad is not the same as that of Nasser in 1967. There is a definite change and that change is ISIS. But what is ISIS is the question?
Nobody has actually given a satisfactory analysis that helps us to understand what is ISIS.
Forget Yamit and others here on Israpundit and everywhere else.
The nearest I can come to a workable understanding of ISIS is to go back to the period when the Nazis were in power and were moving inexorably towards the Holocaust. In those conditions the old backward ideology of Islam was making its move in the form of the ideology of Hajj Amin el Husseini, which I think was The Muslim Brotherhood, but in transition. The transition was a morphing into the alliance of Islam with “Fascism”, in the form of the Nazis in Germany. (people many people see only the Nazis mas being Fascism but the Nazis were only one branch of this new phenomenon Fascism. Fascism, these categories are not understood at all by people like Robert Spencer and Hugh Fitzgerald. Only then understood by the Marxists, who were the tendency around the Trotskysits, which was simply contained in the analyses of Leon Trotsky. NOWHERE ELSE! This is very common in science. One person or group usually around an individual make a break through in understanding.
These people like Fitzgerald and Spencer I suspect have not read ONE word of this. The blinds have come down. In a corresponding fashion…This is the great danger of Yamit. He proceeds always from old dogma and makes things fit in with that dogma. Can seem convincing. He has the “spiel”!
ISIS was a real moment of truth for us. It came very close to Obama. Which is the present movement against Trump! It was run on sheer Islam ideology. The Christians suffered badly and other minorities which they throw into the one bag…the Infidels.
But America, land of the brave, came very close to ISIS. That is the most Christian land, and the Christians ARE Trump, came very close to ISIS.
Why the hatred towards Assad? From what I gather there are 100 dictators in the world worse than him.
Is this not the same neocon mentality coming from Britain, Germany, France and above all America.
(In this regard Trump continues neocon mentality and Ann Coulter is correct. Trump is a neocon still. He had the chance to withdraw the troops, build a wall against Mexico and man that border)
In the first weeks Trump had to take an executive order to build the wall, remove the troops to guard the wall, give total support to Israel to defend the fence agaisnt Hamas, and not let one person in. Trump and his associates have not done that.
Why remove Assad? Why seek to partition Syria? It is an old country. Assad has never shown the hostility that the others have done to the Kurds. I think the Kurds played it wrongly, or were played. I suspect this man with his affinity to the Christians and secular Muslims would have been amenable to a deal. Surely Assad hates Erdogan far more!
Mark Steyne corectly identifies Erdogan as being connected to a demographic Islamist thing. The old secularism in Turkey has gone forever and replaced by babies from the Islam part of the country.
In all of this the Israeli leaders including I am sorry to say Martin Sherman are truly at sea.
In the end my memory is simple. Yamit promoted and promotes ISIS. What an utter crapologist.
But I have no hard feelings against Yamit. He is at least a personality. But all those who follow him (like this mouthy Jewish observant Stalinist) they are deserving of my contempt.
When I say above “Kruschev…as hater of Trotsky” I am not smuggling in some ideology on the cheap. Frankly I care not. I am simply referring to a whole historical period and tendency that it should be totally natural for ALL to talk about. That YOU do not talk about such things is YOUR problem.
@ Edgar G.:
Bear Klein speaks from a dogma. He does not stop and think about what he is saying. Russia is terrified of America and Europe but the Russian rightful nationalism also kicks in, so they will go down fighting. What a big thing they made of Crimea. But Crimea was Russian always, the centre of their religion, and it was the utter Stalinist Kruschev, the hater of Trotsky, the hater of Jews as a people, who (like Merkel) was playing a game at appearing a peaceful person and gave it away. DSomehow the world has to find a way to combat this neoconism.
@ Bear Klein:
I’m surprised that Russia would contemplate attacking the US. At the moment , if they do, it will release a massive backlash which may either plunge the whole region into the kind of war iot has not yet seen, or send a real US task force out to wipe them up.
I seem to recall a couple of months ago that a US aircraft carrier was stationed somewhere close to Syria. but haven’t heard anything of it’s movements since. It may still be there. Can Putin afford the expense of fighting the US when he’s bound to lose. What about the political cost…? It’s hard to imagine that Russia would be following the Syrian “lead”.
@ adamdalgliesh:
Actually Adam, if it hadn’t been for the assassination of his brother Gemayal, he would have been practicing ophthalmology perhaps abroad. He was not trained to take over.
@ Edgar G.:
http://www.mesop.de/mesopotamia-news-todays-outlook-russia-and-iran-prepare-offensive-targeting-u-s-partner-forces-in-eastern-syria/
@ ArnoldHarris:
OoUh Duh…I tink a Hew-hatr is atipo for Jew-hatr, becos the H is next to the J…. I tink.
Only kidding Arnold. There IS a “corrections” which appears at the bottom left of your post about 5 seconds after you enter it. It allows 4 mins. and 30+ secs to alter your post which appears immediately below in a box, highlighted. Sorry for this garbled info.
There was a time when it appeared, it was great. Then it was taken away for a long time, and for the past while it’s appeared again. I hope it’s a permanent feature now. I have lots of typos because the keys are smaller than the tops of my fingers with bad results.
Anyone who is not aware ISIS was formed out Al Quida in Iraq and not some CIA formation.
The crazies in the Shia World came up with propaganda plus the other big lie is that Israel is a big supporter of ISIS and actively works with them.
In the Islamic World they regular say their Arab or Muslim Enemies are Jew lovers and work with the Zionists and Mossad in order to discredit them.
Israelis enemies are all the various Sunni jihadi organizations plus those falling under the umbrella of Iran namely, Hezbollah, Iraqi Shia Militias, Islamic Jihad, various Shia Militia under Iranian command, and Syria’s Assad. Hamas even though Sunni works with Iran and obtains fundsfrom them directly or via Hezbollah.
@ Felix Quigley:
You know Felix I agree with you about the alliance with Russia, US and Assad. I have always regarded Assad as the lesser of all the evils facing Israel. The US and Russia would have departed the country then, leaving Israel to watch it’sown interests as usual. He has kept the Golan QUIET for as long as he’ been in power. What he does inside Syria is his own problem, but As far as ISIS is concerned, I DO believe that if they had been victorious, they certainly would have been massing on the Golan right now, ready to pour into Israel and behead everyone in their path.
As for this and that, and particularly with the many fold groups operating in Syria, they make and break alliances like eating candy, and one is always behind the real news. As I posted yesterday, they ally with another terror group for their own purposes only to attack it if they see a benefit…. (As Meinertzhagen said, the Arabs make poor soldiers, but great bandits and throat-slitters..from behind.)… I don’t care what they do as long as it doesn’t spill over into Israel. I remember the days when a fisherman on the Kinneret took his life into his hands when going fishing.
I’m sorry that Yamit82 has such a “down” on you, but his nature is to speak his mind straight out come what may. I like his posts and he hits the mark right on, far more than most.
Your quip about the priest sprinkling “holy water” etc caused me some poignant memories. When i was a young boy going to school, walking along the Grand Canal, I often met a jolly tubby priest, who always had a sweet for me, and talked about the Church, and you know how it goes. The only thing that made an impression on me were the sweets, everything else was in one ear and out the other, I had no idea what he was talking about, until thinking about it years later. And many years later I used to have a cricket team mate who was a priest from Cork first name Jerry. Nice guy, a gentleman, never mentioned religion at all.
*******I recall in a match borrowing some pads from Sir George Colthurst, a real old geezer at that time, who owned Blarney Castle, and being left handed, turned one inside out as I always did. The bloody old half rotten leather strap broke at the sewing. I was in his black books for ever. Jeremiah cheered me up then. I was about 20, scored 82 N.O. and took 6 wickets for 12…… Had to be under an assumed name…too as I was well known in Dublin……. Still have the clipping somewhere.**********
@ ArnoldHarris:
I suggested moving the “non-belligerent” Arabs, as Martin Sherman calls them, to receptive foreign non-belligerent states, where their “non-belligerence” will rapidly enlarge the area in which they will be living….. They always do….in a “non-Belligerent” way…of course.
@ ArnoldHarris:
I certainly don’t have any “pipe dreams ” about peace with Jew-Haters. All there will be…AFTER they are beaten into the dust, will ber a sullen, antagonistic acquiescence…..until the next time, maybe 100 years on. I don’t life there now but think I understand the Arab mentality better than many “machers”. It’s simple…what they like you must oppose; than you are sure to be on the right track.
Oh yes, Yamit82 has a lot “on the ball” as I’ve said over and over. I always like to read his comments which don’t spare anyone, and he cuts right to the core. His own experience must be taken into top consideration when reading him. He knows what he’s talking about although he, for some reason, is far too tough and I think, not quite correct on Felix.
@ Ted Belman:
Another thing long overlooked by me. What happened about those old Photos which could be got by asking the copyright holders.>>The Temple Mount ones, with a little accompanying description could be devastating.
Calling all Israpundites,
Kindly excuse me for all the typos with which the above comment is laden. (What the hell is a ‘Hew-hater’ ?).
Attention, Gurvinder Pal Sharma. Inasmuch as you designed and developed Israpundit’s current format, how’s about adding a feature which would enable Israpundit commenters to correct our own errors, post-post, so to speak. Or is such a feature already in place and ready for use?
Arnold Harris, Outspeaker
Me I’m offering belfast, Lourdes, pope city, east berlin, Brussels, bern, lots of good places for a terror capital. Wonder how many leaders will go on blended knees to make the terrorists happy as ISRAEL leaders do daily.
Right! Why I think it is important…Religion or Judaism is in the case of the Jews mixed in with national identity. This is not rocket science. But I tend to shout it out.
The Temple Mount is in Israel. Is in the Jewish Homeland. So why is Newgrange owned and to be defended by the Irish? The answer is similar and is because it is in Ireland.
We have plenty to work on here.
I do not take Yamit all that seriously any more. Some of the things Yamit is saying there could be said by any one of that crew who were attacking Milosevic. I mean Madeleine Albrite…those types.
Every state leader looks after their own interests, yet it is to the honour of Putin that he allied with Sadat against ISIS.
Yamit seems to be aiming to minimise the grand nature of that struggle.
At the very least the position of Netanyahu was wait and see. It was not proactive.
There is also the information that the CIA was behind ISIS and certainly the arms given to the “Rebels” really the Muslim Brotherhood who Obama always favoured were finding their way to ISIS, and whole battalions also.
There is a whole heap of information which came out of the CIA man who interrogated Saddam…the mean minded Bush could not stomach that information.
Yamit proceeds in that way. He has his schema. But living reality is a dangerous thing for Yamit so he avoids it.
Assad saw what had happened to Saddam, and above all what happened to Gadhafi.
having seen that there is no other approach to take. With your back to the wall you look for help and take it. the Jews took arms from Stalin the butcher of the Russian Revolution and were right to do so.
So no not lecture us about morals Yamit.
You are now in your old age talking like an old Irish parish priest and I am just waiting for you to start sprinkling the Lourdes water around.
Still there are such things as principles and the support of Yamit for ISIS is way beyond the pale. Ted Belman does not have the guts to break from that.
PS I have kept saying that an alliance of US, Israel, Putin and Assad to crush ISIS would easily have sidelined totally and completely Iran.
That is the most principled and obvious thing to do.
And it surely would have left Israel in a better position. Iran has used this situation against Israel.
Show me where I am wrong.
Yamit82 raises better arguments about handling of Islamorats and other national nuisances besetting the Jewish state. Not a few of the rest of you are stuck in the all-too Jewish pipe dreams of peace with Jew haters. From the little I have been able to deduce from reading his comments on Israpundit over many years, I think his solutions are the most feasible.
As for peace with the Hew-haters, forget all that crap. Israel’s Jewish population is growing rapidly. They will need more land before long. The best way to get and keep that land ill be wars provoked by the Arabs and won by the Israelis, who — if they are as smart as everyone thinks we are, will extradite those Arabs more or less universally.
Stefanija Prasnjak Harris, my Croatian Jewish wife, and I and our eldest son Israel Harris make a Shabat observance every Friiday evening. And every Saturday we both devote much of our time to he study of raw, pure, unforgiving Jewish nationalism. Just as HaShem ordains that we should do. And if he did not ordain that? Then He wouldn’t be HaShem.
Arnold Harris, Outspeaker
@ Edgar G.:
Far from it. Be patient.
@ Ted Belman:
TED-What has happened to Mudar Zahran.?? He seems to have faded completely off the map as if he never existed at all. It looks as if he made a sort of bloodless crowd driven coup attempt, which petered out. Could it be…?
With the best all round plan for both Arabs and Israelis. Nothingnelse yet has come close.
@ david melech:
Over the years it has been indeed BILLIONS not millions. And I think you meant to say that 1 dunam on the Temple Mount was 2 dunams in Gaza….I think. 1 dunam on the Temple Mount is worth more than the whole of Gaza even the least important dunam. Gaza has no significance except to Archaeologists and terrorists, The Temple Mount is different. Significant to Archaeologists yes, but in different way, an massively important to the Jewish People as a whole. I have no idea except utter madness why it was handed over to the trembling so-called keepers, instead of booting their behinds all the way down the hill, and putting the care of the Mount in the hands of the Rabbinic Council…or a specially formed Temple Mount carers. The land it stand on is sovereign Israeli territory, and the little Jordan pseudo-kingele had no right to put a foot there except by invitation, or if the Mount is open to all religions, for a purely religious visit.
@ Ted Belman:
TRUMP WILL STICK WITH THE KING AND PROP HIM UP AGAINST ANY SERIOUS OPPOSITION LEST HE FALL… I think Israel will defend and prop up the King unless he becomes another Assad…….Israel has some big $$$$ Investments in Jordan and Israel would seek to protect and defend those investments….. Palistinians are theives and not dependable as responsible state actors……
Ted Belman Said:
Palestinians: The Only Acceptable Peace Plan
The Palestinians want nothing to do with President Trump’s plan: they know it will never satisfy their demands. The Palestinians are not opposed to the peace plan because of a dispute over a border or a settlement or a checkpoint or the status of Jerusalem. They are against Trump’s plan — and any other peace initiative — because the Palestinians have something else in mind.
If Jared Kushner and Jason Greenblatt wish to learn more about the true ambitions of the Palestinians, they would do well to take in a sermon at a mosque on some Friday or stop into a school in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Perhaps then they would see for themselves that no peace plan in the world can, at the moment, counter the poison that is injected daily into the hearts and minds of the Palestinians and their children.
The two Palestinian parties, the Palestinian Authority and Hamas, may disagree on everything — except the elimination of Israel. The only peace plan acceptable to current Palestinian leaders would be one that facilitated their mission of pursuing jihad against Israel to obliterate it.
Undoubtedly, Trump and his envoys come with the best intentions about making peace between Arabs and Jews in our part of the world. However, what they do not seem to see, however, is that as things stand today, there is no partner on the Palestinian side for any deal with Israel.
https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/12586/palestinians-peace-plan
Felix Quigley Said:
You are so stupid I mostly refrain from commenting to your inane diatribes,,,, Just to correct your commie revisionist lack of understanding let me just point out a few facts easily checkable…..Syrian Bath Party while once being a classic Leninist Party became after military coup an undemocratic junta led by Assad who passed control to son after his death. They are not now nor ever were a popular majority supported political entity. Your support for Assad is obviously connected to your belief they are Commies like yourself…. Maybe they were once by not since Papa Assad assumed power,
Facts: ISIS was never for Israel an existential threat any more than is HAMAS for Israel. They have no heavy artillery, tanks, Jet fighters and bombers or missiles certainly no training or command structure to pose a serious threat to Israel. They don’t have now and never had numbers of fighters to mount a serious threat to Israel… Iranian backed Hezbollah is everything ISIS is not. They have become and existential threat and have developed into a sophisticated competent fighting force using the fight against Sunni opposition to Assad to practice and improve their military skills.
ASSAD HAS MORTAL ENEMIES OF ISRAEL AS SUPPORTERS, BACKERS AND ALLIES… Iran. Russia. China, and Europeans. Israel has the Kurds.
ASSAD HAS SOME 60-100 K missiles aimed at Israel (some with cbn) capabilites.
Hezbollah some 100K missiles aimed at Israel. ISIS: None 0
ASSAD has 2000 tanks and 2500 artilery pieces ISIS none 0
Assad still has an airforce and attack copters ISIS none 0
Assad still has chemical and bio manfg. and stocks ISIS unknown?? But without delivery systems and know how it’s more of a threat to ISIS than to Israel.
ASSAD Has Russian Support and iranian active military support ISIS None. Maybe the CIA at least in the beginning ….now?
ISIS FIGHTING ASSAD AND HEZBOLLAH WAS GOOD FOR ISRAEL Defeat of ISIS leaves Israel to face alone 200K missiles and the protection of the Russians and Iranians. We and the Americans have already faced and killed hundreds of Russian Mercenaries and Iranian forces in Syria…… With ISIS footprint in Syria diminished we are now facing all the forces mentioned on our border threatening a wider confict with big power implications…..
Now tell me again why we should have supported Mass Murderer war criminal Assad a Russian and Iranian stooge???
ISIS AT LEAST KEPT THEM AT BEY AND EXTRACTED A PRICE WHICH KEPT THEM AWAY FROM OUR BORDER AND PREOCCUPIED…….
I forgot to include Turkey ….. no friend of Israel with designs on Syria at least the Kurdish areas adjacent to Turkey,
In the end, Trump’s maneuver against Iran might bear fruit leaving us one on one with Assad and Hezbollah. Big question is how we will deal with the Russian bear???
Saying one is okay with a plan with security concerns because the Saudi Crown Prince Agrees to it, is ridiculous.
To have a stable country and a stable solution the first three things of importance are: 1. Security; 2. Securable Borders, 3. On going Security capabilities which eliminates any foreign military west of the Jordan or areas the IDF is not allowed in, if they deem necessary.
The intifada was caused by having no go areas for the IDF in Judea/Samaria. Result over 1500 Dead and over 10,000 wounded with bombings all over Israel. The above proposal in the article that Ted is considering, to me is completely unacceptable solution. It has great potential for a repeat of the situation of the second Intifada. Completely NOT workable.
@ Ted Belman:
Ted, If you have plan besides for the partnership with Mudar and the Jordan Option. Please spell it out clearly. Mudar does not seem credible. The King was supposed to be out by June you said, no?
The King is meeting with Trump and just met with Kushner and Bibi and is getting money from the Gulf States, USA and IMF loans.
I have spelled out my plan before and will do so below. I was just commenting on the article written and my objection to a few of things that were written that were talking about Israel agreeing to a PA and giving land away. If you had a plan mixed in with your commentary plus the article it was lost.
So when saying that is not a plan it was not intended to be a plan.
@ Felix Quigley: Assad is a dictator who has murdered hundreds of thousands of people. He was not chosen by the Syrian people in a free and fair election, but inherited his office from his father, like an old-fashioned king. He is allied with Iran, which is Israel’s worst and most vicious enemy. It is true that his enemies are equally vicious,and a threat to the Christians, Yazidis, and other minorities. Sometimes wars can occur in which both sides are equally evil. Sometimes the enemy of my enemy is just another enemy.
The communists have consistently been hostile to Israel and Zionism. You cannot reasonably expect someone who is pro-Israel to be pro-Communist as well.
Well I believe that we have moved on from Joseph and his 23 Reasons…and what I believe is that there is a growing consciousness in the world as to what is Islam, and in fact this is where the real division lies.
Jordan as a “Palestine” state is a step backwards because it tends to betray this growing consciousness.
All aspects of Palestine and Palestinianism is most dangerous for Jews, also for the world, because it undermines this growing consciousness as to what is Islam.
This is because Palestinianism is also the battering ram of Islam against not just Jews but us all, including of course Communists (Trotskyism)
Concretely Assad was and is not Islam. Assad was not a dictator either but the chosen leader of the key section of the Syrian population, the Alawites, the Christians, minorities like the Yazedis, and secular Muslims.
Assad was also a man driven into a corner and was staring in the face the fate which happened to Muammar Gadhafi.
But at a more advanced stage. More clear. Gadhafi was facing The Muslim Brotherhood. Assad faced The Muslim Brotherhood morphed into ISIS.
Putin faced also ISIS because with ISIS the victor this threatened the position of Russia as a Christian State.
Hezbollah and Iran were in it for their own interests. But a clear alliance with Assad against ISIS by America and Israel would SURELY have put paid to them.
The communist hating agenda of America won through in the end even though Trump promised to overturn this but showed in his attack on Assad following the White Helmets staged gas attack false flag (fake) cannot be depended on.
The agenda of Mudar, Ted, Trump, Kushner comes on the top of all of that.
But it is a new ball game one in which not just Israel fights for its life against Islam but all of us over here too. We all face destruction. A new orientation for Jews and by Jews is needed.
As I have pointed out so often while Netanyahu hardly has a clue Martin Sherman has never addressed this aspect of things either. He remains rather insular.
Perhaps you would take a look here
“…In fact the Kushner plan is so dangerous because it is backed and promoted by one Donald Trump and because a majority of Jews in Israel think of Trump as their friend. Wellington does not address the actual issue. I feel that this nonsense from this pompous person (Wellington) needs to be thoroughly addressed but most for example Gravenimage run around in circles on JW telling how wonderful he is. By the way she does not address it either.”
Jared Kushner: Mideast peace plan coming soon, with or without Abbas on Jihadwatch
Why are JEWS/ISRAELIS so intent on giving away land? For every dunam Israel gives away 2 dunam need to be returned. Eg: 1 dunam in Gaza = 2 on temple mount. No holy areas given away, shekam, hevron, all Jerusalem stay. Regardless of any agreement areas a and b will never be returned, lost forever + a day.
Why would ISRAEL pay any compensated emmigration? Over the years arabs, abb”arse, arra’fart have recieved if not bilions but millions from all directions, that monies hidden will more than cover moving costs.
How much did T B receive for moving to ISRAEL? What tax releefe was given on major purchases? Was it not nutunyahoo who removed immigrants tax releaf?
Now the beach looks good.
@ Ted Belman:
So you are O.K. with Jordan being GIVEN some of the Land of Israel, that it had captured in an offensive invasion in 1948, and which it legally lost in 1967. That’s not much of a solution. And on top of that, 800,000 Arabs breeding like fruit flies included. Jordan already has 3/4 of Israel.
When you proposed your solution of Mudar, there was no mention of enormous financial compensation being involved. There was a lot of discussion on this site about it, and it emerged that with Mudar in charge, a new Jordanian home would cost $40,000 and if they went to Egypt, it would cost $20,000. And the total which had been pegged in Martin Sherman’s Plan at around $200.billion, (and not a big deal either) was cut down to a fraction of this, about $10-20 billion.
This was catering to the total number of Arabs in YESHA and Gaza.
The problem is that this present plan is being formulated by Goyim, who, with all the best intentions just have no idea of the depth of feeling that true Jews have for the Land. It has almost a deep down biblical mystique…
Yes I know that Greenblatt, Kushner and Co are deeply involved but their feelings are governed by their American Jewish Community experience..
We need the Israeli Govt. to thank the US sincerely, but absolutely say NO to giving up any of the small sliver that is Israel, to anyone; especially to Arab invaders and Jew-Haters. Firmness would win the day, and the planners would have to re-think around this determined stand. They should have been told this before they started planning that giving up any of YESHA was a No-go.
What you write is not a solution. What I wrote is intended as a package deal; all or nothing. The Jordan Option as I envisage it, keeps the Jordan River as the boundary between the Palestine and Israel and has Mudar as its President. But this option requires enormous compensated emmigration.
On the other hand, the alternative I have just set out here will enable up to 800,000 Arabs remain in place yet be added to Jordan, the future Palestine.. Yes it has its security concerns and border concerns but it solves the huge problem of incentivizing Arabs to leave.
From what I have read Mohammed ben Salman is on board with this.
Then Israel could focus on incentivizing the remaining Arabs to emigrate. Of coarse Israel keeps the rest of the land.
Israeli Security is required in all these areas. The IDF nightly rounds up terrorists including many from these areas. E1 is this area is vital to the safety of Jerusalem.
If one wanted to have self governing Israeli Arab Municipalities in some of these outlying Arab Neighborhoods of Greater Jerusalem, that is something that some believe could be considered. Annexing the land to the PA or Jordan is dangerous and should be outright rejected, no matter the diplomatic uproar.
No more turning over land to Arabs that will be used against Israel.
Abbas and his cronies will continue on their 100% non-compromise path and likely also to keep shunning Trump, Kushner and Company.
So the Trump plan will likely not end up being fulfilled or perhaps limited to economic projects such as in Gaza and further Israeli- Gulf Arab Security cooperation with mostly very quiet business dealings. The Gulf Arab States will likely not want formal diplomatic relations with Israel. I do not think this a bad thing as a peace treaty would require Israel to give up things.