Palestinian security officers raid homes of other participants.
BY KHALED ABU TOAMEH, JPOST JUNE 29, 2019
Palestinian Authority security forces on Friday arrested a Palestinian businessman who participated in last week’s US-led economic workshop in Bahrain.
The PA and several Palestinian factions had called on Palestinians and Arabs to boycott the workshop on the pretext that it was part of the US administration’s scheme to “liquidate the Palestinian cause.”
Palestinian sources identified the businessman as Saleh Abu Mayaleh from Hebron. They said he was arrested by the PA General Intelligence Service, headed by Gen. Majed Faraj.
Ashraf Jabari, another businessman from Hebron who attended the workshop, told The Jerusalem Post that Abu Mayaleh, 49, was arrested around from his home in Hebron on Friday night. He said that he and other Palestinians who attended the workshop returned home on Thursday night.
Jabari said that the PA security forces also raided the homes of three other Palestinian businessmen in the city in an attempt to arrest them.
“The Palestinian security forces did not find them,” Jabari said. “They searched their homes and confiscated security cameras and documents. They told the families of the businessmen that they are wanted for participating in the Bahrain workshop.”
Sources in Hebron said that PA intelligence officers raided and searched the home of Ashraf Ghanmen, one of the businessmen who travelled to Bahrain. Ghanem fled his home shortly before the officers arrived, the sources said.
Jabari expressed concern over the safety of Abu Mayaleh, a cancer patient with serious health issues.
He said that Abu Mayaleh was one of 15 Palestinian businessmen who participated in the workshop in Manama, Bahrain. The other members of the delegation are from east Jerusalem and Bethlehem, he added.
Jabari, who lives in the Israeli-controlled part of Hebron, strongly condemned the arrest of Abu Mayaleh, saying it “exposed the true face” of the PA leadership.
“The Palestinian Authority does not want peace,” he told the Post. “We participated in the conference after receiving personal invitations. We did not go there as representatives of the Palestinian Authority or the people.”
He said that he and his friends were in touch with the US administration and international human rights organizations concerning the PA crackdown.
In early June, Abu Mayaleh, denied that he was planning to attend the Bahrain workshop. He also denied that he was the owner of a shoe factory that does business with the IDF.
In a statement, Abu Mayaleh said that he owns a cement factory, but claimed that his business was confiscated by the Israeli authorities in 2018.
Despite the denial, Abu Mayaleh was persuaded by Jabari to join the Palestinian delegation to Bahrain.
Last week, Palestinian social media users published the names of Jabari and several Palestinian businessmen who traveled to Bahrain, dubbing them “traitors” and urging the PA to immediately arrest them.
Jabari, 45, who went to the Bahrain conference as a representative of the Judea and Samaria Chamber of Commerce, said he and his friends were not afraid of the PA.
The Bahrain workshop was a “big success and that’s why [PA President Mahmoud] Abbas is very worried,” Jabari said.
“Of course, we’re not afraid. We’re afraid only of God, and we are capable of defending ourselves. The Palestinian Authority’s measures against us are illegal. Palestinian law does not ban anyone from attending a conference. This was a personal invitation to many people and we were not involved in political activities. The Palestinian Authority’s actions show that we don’t have democracy. Even if we belong to the opposition, there’s no reason why we should be arrested. In Israel, the prime minister consults with the leader of the opposition on sensitive issues. Mahmoud Abbas, on the other hand, orders the arrest of anyone who disagrees with him.”
Victory over the terrorists is paramount to destroy any hope they have of destroying the Jewish State of Israel. Once that is done stability can be achieved with peace a long term possibility because of the victory. The biggest danger to Israel currently is Iran and Hezbollah. That has been the focus of the government and IDF. In the future on the Pal-Arab front the solution is found in the following strategy.
@ Bear Klein: I’ii let you have the last word, Bear. I also rest my case.
@ Adam Dalgliesh:
Einstein said, “Stay away from negative people. They have a problem for every solution” I rest my case.
“Mamas” should read “imams.” My computer program sabotaging me again.
Maybe my various scenarios for defeating th Arabs and then making peace for them are fantasies. But at least I am trying to come up with a plan that would work.
Nearly everyone else in the national camp has only one variation or another on a simplistic, unfeasible solution to outr “Arab problem:” Give them a one-way ticket out of the country. But as I have explained in numerous previous posts, Israel would face serious international reprisals if it addopted this approach, including trade sanctions and arms embargoes. And if it attempts mass evictions of the Arabs by force, it would face probable armed intervention on the Arab side by one or more of the great powers.
The reasons why there would be these reactions, I have attempted to explain in numerous other posts, but without getting through to anyone on this site.
To repeat myself for anyone who cant remember my earlier posts, There are three main reasons why this simplistic solution is not viable.
a) there is a long history of antisemitism in the Western countries, which still influences the behavior of Western leaders, even perhaps uncosciously in some cases. b) All the world wants to appease the Arab and Muslim states, because there are 57 Muslim countries, and some of them have large petroleum reserves, but only one small Jewish state, and c) The international hysteria about so-called “ethnic cleansing” that developed during the Balkan wars of the 1990s.
This hysteria was initiated by the New York Times, which coined the phrase, but was soon taken up the UN, NATO, and even the USG, and used as a propaganda tool to justify the relentless bombing and mass expulsion of the Serbs. The International Criminal Court set up specifically by the UN to try the Serbs adopted an extremely broad definition of “ethnic cleansing” to include any effort, even peaceful, to move members of one community out of a country in order to make the country ethnically hommogeneous and benefit the dominent, ruling ethnic group. The “general” ICC (separate from the “special one” set up only to yty the Serbs), is now investigating Israel on charges of practicing “ethnic cleansing” and is said to be preparing indictments.
However, these investigations will certainly be stepped up, and indictments of many Israeli officials filed, if Israel actually tries to move Arabs out of Eretz Israel. It would become very difficult for Israeli officials, and especially Israeli military officers, to travel abroad safely. While the ICC has no power itself, the European countries and the EU Brussels bureaucracy seem to have great reverence for it and would probably implement its decrees. As evidence for this Belgium is imprisoning not only Serb but even Liberian victims of the iCCs witch hunts. Theeir seems to be no mechanism for their ever being being paroled or pardoned.
More importantly, the European countries that have accepted the ICCs “ethnic cleansing” doctrine, also propagated by the UNs “Commission of Genocide” would certainly impose economic and arms=export sanctions on Israel if it ever attempted to implement so-called “ethic cleansing.”
As a result, no Israeli government will never adopt this policy. Israeli politicians consider trade with Europe and other countries essential to Israel’s survival.
As a result of all this “international” hazarai, Israel’s national camp has got to come up with a more doable strategy for defeating our adversaries than the simplistic one-way-plane-ticket idea. ONe element in such a strategy wmight be a well-orchestrated propaganda campaign, aimed at the Arab “street” rather than their rulers, pointing out that it would be in their interest to have good relations with Israel, and also in their interest , in some countries, to overthrow their corrupt, vicious extortionist rulers, and to ignore their reactionary, hate-mongering mamas. If the propaganda campaign was well managed, it might just work in the long run.
But my real point, to get back to the beginning of this post, is that I am at least trying to come up with a viable strategy for victory in the war, followed by peace with our neighbors. Nobody else, as far as I can see, is even making an effort to do this.
Einstein said, “Stay away from negative people. They have a problem for every solution”
Israel has problems but it is stronger that it ever has been. It is not in danger of falling apart. Just the opposite it is strengthening and growing. The solution to the Pal-Arab problem is simple it is called victory. Destroy the Pal-Arab terrorists and their supporters. Allow and assist those who want to move from the Jewish State to leave. Allow those who wish to demonstrate loyalty to the state to stay (e.g. Druze, some of the Bedouin).
Israeli Jewish population was 650,000 Jews in 1948. Israeli Population is 8.5 million now and growing every year. Israel Population Growth
Israel is currently growing at a rate of almost 2% per year. Israel has a fertility rate of 3 children per Jewish woman, higher than any other developed country and well above the replacement level. Israeli emigration rate is at 28 year low (2018 stat) Also more returned.
According to numbers published by the Central Bureau of Statistics this week, some 15,200 Israelis left the country in 2016 for a year or more, the lowest number since at least 1990. Some 8,900 Israelis who lived abroad for more than a year returned in 2016, meaning that 6,200 more Israelis left the country than returned – the third lowest deficit since 1990.
Some 50% of those Israelis who returned in 2016 were away for under two years, while 22% returned after living abroad for six years or more. But just as immigrants made up a huge percentage of Israelis who left the country, they also made up 42% of those Israelis who returned – meaning they made aliyah, left for more than a year, and then returned to Israel again.
According to the CBS, there were between 560,000 to 596,000 Israelis living abroad in 2016, not including children of Israelis born overseas. According to Jewish Agency figures, since the beginning of the state, some 3.3 million people have immigrated to Israel.•
But even with that deficit, 28,000 new immigrants arrived in 2016, meaning there was a net population gain through immigration, subtracting the Israelis who moved abroad
Israel was threatened with business isolation and vulnerability by the EU so it expanded its business dealings all over the world including growing business with India, China, USA, Japan and many others. This trend is ongoing.
Israel via technology solved a serious water problem and now exports such technology. Israel does business with almost all the world’s top high tech companies and many come to start technology incubators due to the talent found in Israel.
Israel’s economy is strong and growing at 3.2 GDP annual growth rate
Israel is one of the happiest countries in the world per the UN. On the happiness index Israel is 13 worldwide
and the USA is 19. ( I believe the Democrats are causing the USA to keep sliding on this happiness index).
I could go on with positive things about Israel but then it will not change the view of those inclined to view things negatively.
@ Adam Dalgliesh You remind me of what Einstein said, “Stay away from negative people. They have a problem for every solution”
Israel has problems but it is stronger that it ever has been. It is not in danger of falling apart. Just the opposite it is strengthening and growing. The solution to the Pal-Arab problem is simple it is called victory. Destroy the Pal-Arab terrorists and their supporters. Allow and assist those who want to move from the Jewish State to leave. Allow those who wish to demonstrate loyalty to the state to stay (e.g. Druze, some of the Bedouin).
Israeli Jewish population was 650,000 Jews in 1948. Israeli Population is 8.5 million now and growing every year. Israel Population Growth
Israel is currently growing at a rate of almost 2% per year. Israel has a fertility rate of 3 children per Jewish woman, higher than any other developed country and well above the replacement level. Israeli emigration rate is at 28 year low (2018 stat) Also more returned.
According to numbers published by the Central Bureau of Statistics this week, some 15,200 Israelis left the country in 2016 for a year or more, the lowest number since at least 1990. Some 8,900 Israelis who lived abroad for more than a year returned in 2016, meaning that 6,200 more Israelis left the country than returned – the third lowest deficit since 1990.
Some 50% of those Israelis who returned in 2016 were away for under two years, while 22% returned after living abroad for six years or more. But just as immigrants made up a huge percentage of Israelis who left the country, they also made up 42% of those Israelis who returned – meaning they made aliyah, left for more than a year, and then returned to Israel again.
According to the CBS, there were between 560,000 to 596,000 Israelis living abroad in 2016, not including children of Israelis born overseas. According to Jewish Agency figures, since the beginning of the state, some 3.3 million people have immigrated to Israel.•
But even with that deficit, 28,000 new immigrants arrived in 2016, meaning there was a net population gain through immigration, subtracting the Israelis who moved abroad
Israel was threatened with business isolation and vulnerability by the EU so it expanded its business dealings all over the world including growing business with India, China, USA, Japan and many others. This trend is ongoing.
Israel via technology solved a serious water problem and now exports such technology. Israel does business with almost all the world’s top high tech companies and many come to start technology incubators due to the talent found in Israel.
Israel’s economy is strong and growing at 3.2 GDP annual growth rate
Israel is one of the happiest countries in the world per the UN. On the happiness index Israel is 13 worldwide
and the USA is 19. ( I believe the Democrats are causing the USA to keep sliding on this happiness index).
I could go on with positive things about Israel but then it will not change the view of those inclined to view things negatively.
@ Adam Dalgliesh: Yes the Arabs have strong anti-Jewish traditions, as do Europeans and people of European descent. However, if Arab antisemitism is really so overwhelming that every Arab woke up in the morning wanting to eat a Jew for breakfast, how do you explain the fact that nearly a Jews lived in Muslim countries before the Arab-Israel conflict heated up and there was a chance to move to Eretz Israel? Jews managed to live in many Arab countries between 622 C.E. and 1948 C.E. And while there was discrinination against them and the occasional pogrom, most of the time they were able to survive , practice their religion and teach it to their children. Some even prospered and became rich.
Christian antisemitism was every bit as bad as Muslim antisemitism for centuries. Remember, the Six Million were murdered mainly by Christians (or in some cases “Post-Christians), not, at least not for the most part, by Muslims. Yet substantial numbers of Jews managed to survive in Europe, sometimes even prosper there, for 1,800 years before the Holocaust.
Now, many Christians, even Christian leaders, have distanced themselves from antisemitism, or even condemned it. Some (not nearly enough) have even become friends of Israel.
If antisemitism really in both Christians and Muslims’ DNA and can never be changed, how could Israel possibly survive?
@ Edgar G.: I think that Cooper’s Last of the Mohicansis a masterpiece. Love it. Masterful pschological portrayals of several characters. Also, hits American racism head on.
@ Bear Klein: Bear and Edgar, if you really believe that peace with the Arabs is utterly impossible, how do you propose that Israel can survive? After all, if the Arabs continue the war for as long as it takes them to destroy Israel, they have all the cards. Something like 300 million of them, backed by nearly 2 billion Muslims, and their numbers constantly growing, And this against maybe 6 million Jews in Israel, and a steadily declining number of 3-6 million in the diaspora, rapidly diminishing due to assimilation and a dismally low birth rate. And the Arabs have about 100 times Israel’s territory.. If they are willing keep fighting for the next 100 or 1,000 years if that’s what it takes them to destroy Israel, it is hard to see how they can possibly lose.
Will the Israelis really have the patience to keep fighting their enemies to the end of time? Or will most of them emigrate to get away from the situation? Emigration already exceeds immigration to Israel. I personally know a lot of Israelis who have emigrated over the past few years and have resettled in my rural-exurban area of NY State. How many more must there be in NY City and Los Angeles (where I also have yordim friends). Yes, the Arabs are emigrating, too, but even so, there will be a lot more of them left in the Middle East over the next century. And even their emigrants will form a large voting block in Europe and the United States to oppose any aid to Israel. So what is your solution?
@ Adam Dalgliesh:
Poland is not fighting “a shooting war” because they have absolutely NO chance, and the times are against it. A poor example anyway.. This has nothing to do with Arab hatred. They have a born-with, visceral hatred of Jews, fed by the Koran, and nurtured by their ‘schools’. Besides, every Friday night they are reminded…..as if they would ever forget.
The:”best Arabs you know Adam, have to be the Israeli Arabs. And I’d bet there is not more than a handful, and those incapacitated, who would hold back from descending on the Jews if they knew it would be safe for them.
I’ve given you examples of life-long companions and foster-children-style friends, who have turned vicious when the “urge” struck them. But you ignore it.
As I;ve said before, and which you likely don’t recall…is that their Jew-hate mania, if not openly apparent, hits them like alcohol with the American Indians.
All your possibilities and maybes are like Alice through the Looking Glass stuff. Or, as Mark Twain said about Fenimore Cooper’s very bad writing,… “seeing through a dark glass eye”
I saw that movie. and read the book. I thought Laughton was excellent, Valerie Hobson brilliant and Mills a bit too simple..I hated that scarf-around-the -neck labouring character portrayal even if over-awed by his girlfriend.. Not good..but on the whole a very good film.
Let me highly recommend to you Mark Twain’s “Fenimore Cooper’s Literary Offences”…. I liked it so much, that I actually typed it out, into a home-made 9 page booklet. I believe there is also a response to it. ripping Twain to pieces, but not by Cooper…by a modern critic..
@ Adam Dalgliesh:Western analogies totally not relevant. It shows no understanding of Arab-Muslim societies in particular the locals to the neighborhood Israel is in.
@ Edgar G.: Oh Edgar, you have totally misunderstood my views. I never suggested that the Arabs would ever be our best buddies. Only that it was possible that they would some day lose interest in waging war against us, and instead prefer to do well for themselves, and tire of being ruled by extortionists and thugs. As an example of how this could happen: Russia and Germany are not the best of buddies, and I don’t think they will ever be.But they are not fighting a shooting war with each other any longer, despite the horrors they inflicted on each other in the past. They now do some business with each other.
The Poles are another example. If you follow Polish news, you know that Poland is far from being the best of buddies with either Germany or Russia.They don’t forget or even forgive anything anything that the Germans and the Russians have done to them in the past. . But it is not fighting a shooting war any longer with either neighbor. THey do some business with both countries.
@ Adam Dalgliesh:
Adam..I DO have considerable lasting, lifelong respect for the Talmud as whole…..it being part of the Jewish life that kept us going through many centuries of torment, And in fact allow us -if we wish- to make the claim to have brought humanity and morality. to humankind.
The Talmudic commentaries on the Torah are DEEP and comprehensive. But that does not men that some dross has not crept an and it certainly has. What about that half- wit named “Honi the Circle Drawer|”…
As for, Ishmael, Noach and your other pals, they were mere legends and derived from earlier stories of earlier civilisations. Like Gilgamesh for instance. You can read all bout Noach’s Flood there… “straight off the press” .
But your unctuous, dripping, subservience to “Good Cheer”… “Hail Fellow well met” Albert Schweitzer type attitude to our new frtends the “GOOD” Arabs..our new Bosom Buddies….
Gives me the “urge to purge”… (I’m a poet…just discovered)
To sum up very briefly…I’m just not a starry-eyed fool who believes in myths, legends, and plagiarism from other myths……just because they re attached to the very genesis of a religion that I revere, and follow- however imperfectly.
The largest, most powerful and completely intransigent Pal-Arab organization is Hamas. It like all the other Pal-Arab organizations have a goal of the destruction of Israel. This makes the conflict zero-sum.
So Hamas and the rest of these Pal-Arab terror organizations must be destroyed for stability and perhaps peace in the very long run. Anything short of this is taking the obvious and only solution and making illusions about what could be.
If Israel and the United States and Israel were to join forces to deny Fatah and Hamas any access to money , I think that both the Hamas and Fatah regimes would collapse in 2-3 years. Without money to pay their soldiers, and without being able to extort more money themselves from the “international community” and their own people, the Hamas and Fatah leaders would take the money and run to England, Switzerland, Qatar, Maylaysia, Tunisia or wherever they could get asylum. They are not quite as fanatical as they pretend to be. For them, antisemitism and jihadism are fine as long as they are profitable and safe for them. They are happy to sacrifice the lives of “ordinary” Palestinians to the anti-Israel jihad, but they have shown a marked reluctance to sacrifice their own lives and that of their children to it. They will realize that if they can’t pay their troops and can’t keep the Palestinian Arab masses from starving, someone will “off” them sooner or later.
The economies of Gaza and Judea-Samria would collapse if Israel and the United States combined to deny them all access to funds. No more use of the U.S. financial institutions,, which still control world currency transfers, in order to obtain money from Europe, Russia or elsewhere. No more salaries paid to Arabs for working in Israel or the Israeli settlements. No more transfers of shekels to Palestinian banks. No more payment of Hammas officials salaries, or Fatah officials salaries, by Qatar. No more Israel collecting taxes for the PLO. No more salaries for terrorists sitting in Israeli jails, and no more pensions for their families. Not even any more UNWRA money reaching the Palestinians.
Israel might not have to fire a shot. Not that I would oppose its firing some shots at the desperate terrorists.
The result would be total chaos in Gaza and Judea-Samaria without Israel even having to fire a shot. The armed gangs would fight furiously with themselves for whatever money is left, and rob any Palestinians civilians of whatever money they have left.
All of the “natives” who could find a way of fleeing these territories and becoming “refugees” elsewhere would do so. These territories would be largely denuded of Arab inhabitants. That would on the whole be a plus for Israel. Only some armed thugs would remain. But even they might end up begging Israel to reoccupy these territories , in order to feed them and protect them from rival thugs. They would be in no position to offer serious resistance.
Fantasies? Probably yes but only because powerful vested interests in both Israel and the United States won’t allow their governments to pursue these policies. The Palestinian terrorists could not themselves prevent these boycott policies from being implemented.
All true, Bear. But after all. Christian attitudes, values and behavior has changed somewhat from what they were in the Middle Ages. Can we really be sure that Muslims will never progress mentally and societally past their medieval mindsets?
Pal-Arabs last time they voted preferred Hamas. Polls indicate that if the Pal-Arabs voted again that Hamas would defeat Fatah in Judea/Samaria. Those raised from birth to hate Jews and believe that the Jews hold their land and have no right to are not candidates for compromise or co-existence in the real world of the middle-east. Perhaps in the unrealistic illusions of some westerners this can come about.
The mentality of the Muslim-Arabs is similar to that Christians in the middle-ages. Yes they drive cars and watch TVs invented and built elsewhere but their societies and mind sight is feudal.
To summarize my position: If it ever becomes clear to most Arabs that continuing the war against Israel will result in a true calamity for them, such as the complete destruction of their societies, or widespread famine, or even universal impoverishment touching even the upper classes, or perhaps conquest by non-Arabs such as Iran, they will make peace with Israel.
However, for Israel to bring this situation about will require great patience, endurance, a great deal of courage, and success in winning the support of poweful foreign countries, including but not limited to the United States.
All this looks like a long shot, but I think it will happen if Israelis demonstrate the great courage and determination and perseverence needed to make it happen.
The classic British movie “Hobson’s choice” illustrates this strategy. A hopeless alcoholic kicks his habit after his physician informs him that he will die very soon otherwise. He turns over control of the family business to his daughter, who is much more capable than he is is, and cold sober. He also permits her to care for him during his recovery and make sure he can’t get access to booze.
Is it possible that the Arabs will someday make Hobson’s choice? And that Israel will play the role of Hobson’s daughter? Maybe.
@ Adam Dalgliesh:
The Arabs were ready and waiting to turn to Hitler in order to wipe out the Jews.
Netanyahu just one little time for a bout a week in his long life turned to the historical experience of Hajj Amin el Husseini joining up with Hitler in late on 28 November 1941.
The Wannsee Conference followed January 20, 1942.
There were two long months of gestation in which these evils laid their plans to wipe out every one of your people. That includes the 5000 or so Jews who lived in Ireland and the Irish certainly would not have lifted a hand to help them either.
That is the historical reality that lays very heavily on the events of today.
I am very suspicious of people who do not place that historical event (I am referring to the key two months between those two dates) at the centre of their political being.
Nothing else is important.
@ Edgar G.: Edgar, I used to get the impression that you had great reverence for our scriptures and the rabbinic commentaries and interpretations of them in the Talmud, Midrash and elsewhere. While I do not think everything in the scriptures or the later rabbinic commentaries on them are literally true, they nevertheless contain great wisdom that we can benefit from today. The ancient Biblical authors were well aware that the Arabs were violent and treacherous. But they also knew that there were elements in their culture, language and ethnic origins that made them related to the Jews. They knew that trade and commerce florished between Jews and Arabs in the period roughly 300 B.C.E. to 500 C.E., when the Talmud was compiled.
To clarify my position, which I have perhaps not presented very clearly–peace with the Arab world will not be possible unless until it becomes clear to the overwhelming majority of Arabs that they have lost the war against Israel, that continuing the war will result in the collapse and destruction of their societies, and that there is nothing whatsoever for them to be gained by continuing the war. If and when that time comes somtime in the future, they will rethink their hostility to Israel and overthrow those leaders who insist on continuing the war. For all of their savagery, there is a pragmatic elelment in Arab culture. Fighting Israel has enabled them to squeeze vast amounts of money from the Europeans, Russians, and Americans, all of whom want to appease them for one reason or another. But what if that should change someday? And what if economic ruin is staring them in the face if they continue the war?
Cultures sometimes have evolved when confronted with both severe external pressures and positive inducement to change their values. It would not be possible here to document the dramatic changes in culture that have occurred in various parts of the world. But the evolution of the Scandanavian peoples from savage warriors, every bit as bad or worse than Arabs, professional robbers, murderers and rapists, to their present milqutoast, supernice culture, is one example of what is possible. Abba Eban said, “people will turn to reason when they have absolutely no other alternative.” My reference to that vulgar remark by Lyndon Johnson was aimed at making the same point.
There are no Pal-Arab organizations who have any clout to make peace with Israel. Israel has no peace partner. The Pal-Arab organizations all want to destroy Israel. There are a few individual Pal-Arabs who recognize that the Jews are not going away and want to live their lives and raise their families.
This does not mean they are a movement to destroy Hamas, Fatah, PLO, PA or reverse the teachings of Islam which include Jew hatred and their right to rule any land that has ever been ruled by Muslims. They do not constitute a partner for Israel to make peace with.
@ Adam Dalgliesh:
There you are…this trite piece of millions-of-times worked over irrelevance, shows me your softness and attempts to be benevolent where Arabs are concerned.
What has Beresheet got to do with today’s Arabs. NOTHING…and had nothing to to do with them 4000 years ago either, even in the likely legendary tale of our beginnings.. This is all wishful thinking, ..Are you practicing to be a Nobel peacemaker (like Arafat and Peres)…Go live in Ramallah and see FIRST hand the utter deceit and murderous intent of Arabs. Go and sit in one of their “schools” where they re taught mainly the Koran and to kill Jews.
(Actually you don’t need to do that…..Just read the daily news.)
Naturally I’m using Hyperbole…and you might think -a little “intemperate”-….but you are in a most aggravating mode of (December) “Goodwill to All”…..for a 100% Jew and good friend as I am, to put up with. You use totally irrelevant,,highly remote analogies to justify your contradictory opinions…..and believe me, they ARE contradictory. A couple of months sgo,.you and I and Bear were on the same page……Now…..??
As for the Talmud, they are only giving opinions” on vague legends and pious desires.
There is no prevalence for where Esau or Ishmael ar buried…if they ever lived at all.
@ Edgar G.: Edgar, I have no illusions about the Arabs. What does it say about them in the Book of Genesis: “he shall be a wild man. His hand shall be against everyman, and everyman’s hand shall be against his.” In spite of all that, Ishmael and Isaac joined together to bury their father Abraham. And the Talmud says that Ishmael is buried in the Cave of Machpeleh.
Jacob even managed a modus vivendi with Esau, who was probably also an Arab ancestor.
Sometimes , a Jew may have have a relative who is “connected” to the Mafia, and you can never risk turning your back on him. Even so, you feel the need to invite him to the occasional family dinner. He may be a dangerous rogue, but he is still your cousin.
@ Adam Dalgliesh:
Maybe if you translate “The Nations” as Christians, Hindus, Buddhists etc…..but RARELY if at all…Arabs,
You sound more and more childish as time goes on….., like the so-called saint Francis, who would wander around the forests, and the birds would settle on his shoulders…of course he’s always depicted with a halo around his head. He loved rocks and plants too-if you can believe that. ..Of course there were no ‘”sanity-test” standards in those days… Are you aiming for that …? ..If so better get the size of your hat registered in the halo makers guild…………….
Adam…There are well authenticated records of Arabs and Jews growing up in the same milieu …in and out of each others homes all the time, playing and overnighting together when kids….all the best of good friends. And then one day…it could be years later… the Arab has gone, and the Jew (male or female) is left lying in the field where they worked together, with his entrails all over the place and much worse…. Many stories. I have books on such events from the days of the Halutzim. And for the past 100 years anyway, havent we seen the very same sort of thing as an almost daily event…. I’m surprised at you..
You sound like the old guy in “Tortilla Flat”……The Steinbeck masterpiece.
Remember the Talmud dictum….Respect….but Suspect”…and I add.”never turn your back on an Arab.
@ Adam Dalgliesh:
The amount of REAL “goodwill” could be put in your eye and you wouldn’t feel it….It awould result in the demise of the Jewish State. So where is he different from all the other Arabs ..more educated…??… more business oriented…??….. The end result he wants is the same as that of all the murderers and slaughterers.
@ David melech: Excellent proposals, David.
@ Edgar G.: Edgar, I guess I differ from you and other readers on this point because I think there is such a thing as a ” righteous Gentile,” that there are “righteous among the nations.” who are sincere friends of the Jews, or wish to become friends. Herzl thought so, too. So did Weizmann. Jews need to be tough on their enemies, but still recognize that it is possible to find some genuine friends among “the nations”. Even Moses and the prophet Isaiah say so in Tanach. Yad va Shem is dedicated to the ‘righteous among the nations” who helped save some Jews during the Holocaust.
While Israel is ‘ a nation that dwells alone,” no nation can afford to be completely alone and survive.
@ Bear Klein: I read this ynet article you linked us to, Bear. Jabari comes out as a good guy to me. It is less important what his political program is, then the fact that he is willing to show goodwill to Israelis and Jews in public, even at the expense of threats his life by the PLO-terrorist regime. if people with his attitude ever take over Judea-Samaria, some sort of “deal” Israel can live with could be worked out. And even if, as is probable, the “collaborators” never take over Judea-Samaria, the more of them that can be recruited, the greater the chances that Israel will be able to take over these “disputed” areas of Eretz Israel and establish its control there without heavy losses to Israeli soldiers. Also, people like Jabari make good public relations for Israel. And heaven knows Israel could use a little good press.
There is an update on the article .. I have just been reading the US stepped in .. https://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Palestinian-Authority-arrests-Hebron-businessman-who-attended-Bahrain-workshop-594084
For anyone getting excited about people like Pal-Arab businessmen wanting to do more business with Israel please learn about were they want things to go before you start jumping with Glee. Jabari sound like other Pal-Arabs business people I have talked to. They realize the Jews are not going away but they want the Zionist State to morph away.
@ Adam Dalgliesh:
Yes encouraging that they are going to stick in Israel like glue…and their no doubt extra large families, cousins, descendants and other hangers-on. Are we now making honorary Israeli citizens of Arab scum who defy Abbas…..??
It just like the American Jews who are SO impressed when they meet Goyim who like baigels and smoked salmon….or make them first cousins because they use a few yiddishe expressions.
This is a REAL Jewish weakness…..wanting to be liked or loved by the Goyim, , and allowing their imaginations on that score, to run away with them……The result of many centuries od being scorned and persecuted..
The very fact that up to 15 Palestinian businessmen attended the conference in defiance of the PLO is to my mind an encouraging sign.
All of the above home’s should be rezoned as being in Israel. Jabari should be given assurance of no harm will come to him, his home nor family