T. Belman. Yes I know he wrote the Israel Lobby but what he has to say is right on regarding the Ukraine War. He also starts by explaining the difference between the Realist School of which he is a leader and the Liberal school that the West embraces.
The discussion of the Gaza War begins at 41.29. Please avoid it at all costs. The intervewer begins by calling it a massacre or genocide and Mearsheimer begins by blaming the Israel Lobby. That was enough fo me and I stopped watching.
@Laura
So what was the threat which was posed by the Serbs? the Libyans? the Sunni allies of America who were Arab Springed?
In fact, it was America which formed the threat to these nations, not the reverse, even as America was at that time still considered to be a Republic. And countless millions of people were slaughtered, left homeless, and destitute due to the threat from America. But prove me wrong. Tell me how these nations deserved the fate which America left for them to suffer.
@Laura
What about an American satellite. If Soviet satellites lack sovereignty, should Russia have taken note of this fact with regards to the American slavic satellite in Ukraine?
Let me share a quote with you:
Curiously enough, this was from the same exchange between Putin and the college kids which the Atlantic article referenced but of course not this part, most notably because it addressed Ukraine having been made a colony of America, something which was in large part managed and cultivated with the support of Soros and his allies on the board of the very same Atlantic from which you quoted.
So if colonies and satellites have no sovereignty as seems to be agreed to between you and Putin, why are you opposed to his having invaded the American colony bordering his nation, besides the fact that it was an AMERICAN colony which was invaded, of course.
I recall when Obama moved our missiles out of Poland and the Czech Republic and got caught telling Medvedev that he could be more favorable to Russia’s positions after the 2012 election. I also recall Obama being widely condemned by Republicans and conservatives in both cases. Apparently back then they regarded Putin’s Russia as a threat or were they just playing partisan politics? When did conservatives decide that Putin was an ally or at least not a threat to Russia’s neighbors? Probably about the time of the Russia collusion nonsense. Alot of the defenders of Putin are simply positioning themselves just to be the opposite of which side they think the democrats are on. There’s no other rational explanation for Putin’s popularity on the right.
No, so long as they don’t pose a threat beyond their own borders. However, totalitarian regimes tend not to be isolationist.
No I would not have referred to a Soviet satellite nation as being sovereign.
@Laura
So all nations which lack a legitimate democratic basis are subject to being overthrown by nations claiming to have a democratic basis? Do I have that right, because I have a bit more to say on this topic if this is truly your position.
Cuba was a Soviet satellite. I don’t believe in morally equivocating totalitarian nations with free nations.
@Adam
Please provide a reference where I have stated that Ukraine has committed genocide in the Dombas. Note that you will have some difficulty in doing so. I try to be quite clear and very careful in what I write, and whereas to be human is to error, I am very certain that I never made the claim that Ukraine is committing “genocide”, not ever, not even once, not here on Israpundit and not even in my personal correspondence.
I do believe that the genocidal sentiment in Ukraine would very much have led to the genocide of those ethnic Russians refusing to submit to the Monist mandates of the Nazi-Nationalist union, had the Monists ever actually been victorious in battle. Luckily for the resisting ethnic Russians who refused to submit to the American installed govt, the Monist Ukrainians have come to develop a poor reputation with regards to their marshal skills in battle since the very hour in which their Monist govt came to rule and ruin Ukraine.
Notably, the word genocide has a particular legal definition, and though I would likely be surprised if what has taken place in Ukraine would not meet this standard, it is not a subject on which I have lent any comment. Rather I have commented infrequently that suggestions by others reflecting the notion that Russia is committing genocide in Ukraine is false. So, such significant terms are twisted for political effects by others, but notably, not by me.
In any event, the UN can hardly be characterized as being an impartial authority on any topic, and least of all the topic of Ukraine, which was arguably no small factor in explaining why the Ukraine war came about in the first place. Do note that the Minsk Accords, which were no more than a bad faith attempt by the West to stall til they could build an Ukrainian army capable of defeating Russia (something which has still failed to materialize I should add), was a UN agreed arrangement. Also, the UN is not a fair arbiter of justice on any topic. It was a political ruse which came following the victory of the Nazi menace, but which was simply designed to keep the ‘great’ nations which led the victory over the Nazis as leaders of the world in perpetuity. As to the veracity of he UN report on human rights violations in Ukraine, do recall that Iran now sits on the ‘august’ UN Human Rights Coucil, clearly demonstrating how irrelevant and thoroughly useless any investigation coming from the UN should hold for anyone.
Furthermore, I would also dispute the numbers you shared here out of simple logic, for though I do support the notion that the Ukrainians have a long record of being desperate but lousy soldiers on the battlefield, they are not so pathetic a force as to have only killed some 1000 casualties over 8yrs using such devastating tools as cluster munitions in populated areas. Even by chance, the number must have been greater than 125 deaths in each year of battle, or are we to accept that they were dropping water balloons instead of cluster bombs.
Meanwhile, as you are looking for the reference of me stating that which I never stated, perhaps you would care to comment on the topics I have been discussing with Laura, which include the nonsense conclusion that Putin’s war in Ukraine is somehow a war of conquest. See below for my comments as your responses, as well as those of others, on this topic would be quite welcome.
@laura @peloni @felix. The reports of a UN commission of investigation, established by a UN resolution in 2014, provides substantial evidence that casualties in the Donbass from the fighting that occurred bettween 2014 and 2021 were not even remotely close to “genocide. Maybe 600 pro-Russian Donbass fighters, and somewhere under 400 civilians in the Donbass were killed during this seven year period.. People like peloni and felix who claim that Ukraine committed “genocide” in the Donbass during this period of time are obviously wrong if the findings of these UN investigators are even roughly correct.
Simple thought experiment. Suppose the province of quebec does finally sever its relationship with Canada. Or better, Canada gets smart and kicks Quebec out of confederation. In the fullness of time Quebec as a sovereign nation state decides to partner strategically with Russia. Quebec joins the BRICS and Russia transfers advanced weaponry to Quebec. Question, how does US (forget about Canada) respond?
@Laura
Before moving onto this and other relavent topics, perhaps you would be so kind as to actually respond to my comments on the subjects already raised.
We can then move onto this report which cites the ICC as some form of authority on Human Rights Violations, the same so called institution which is currently holding Israel in the dock for such claims, false claims I should add, against them. If we are to have a conversation, and not simply post propaganda in place of dialogue, it will hardly be a fruitful effort, even while it might be easier for those who do not have command of the facts which they claim to support as true.
@Laura
So I guess the implication for Cuba was that it was not a sovereign nation? Of course, the US did overthrow the previous govt in Cuba, just as they overthrew the 2014 govt in Ukraine and they are trying to overthrow the current govt in Israel. So are any of these nations sovereign with regards to the US, or is their sovereignty simply limited to their relationship to Russia. Russia had every right to respond to the growing anti-Russian NATO threat in Ukraine, which they had negotiated to amend over the past decade with only duplicity being extended across the table from the NATO members who statedly only agreed to those Accords in bad faith (see below).
So, was Ukraine a free nation when it took a coordinated US sponsored and coordinated coup to overthrow the Ukrainian nation and sent it into Civil War as a result of that coup? With all due respect, is this what freedom means to you or anyone else? Ukraine had a legitimately elected govt, with no Nazis in the govt before that coup, something which was simply not true after that coup, which led to the protests, the Odessa Massacre, the Separtist Referendum (which was opposed by Putin), and the Civil War which has kept millions of ethnic Russians from having any representation in the govt which came to change the constitution and support entry into NATO.
Also, NATO is not a defensive alliance. It gave up that claim when it illegally overthrew the govts and slaughtered the people of Serbia and Libya, respectively. Furthermore, quite tellingly, noting that the US is the leader of the NATO alliance, several members of the US govt have openly called for regime change in Russia, including the president. Furthermore, this defensive organization, as you like to characterize NATO, had armed, funded, and trained an army in Ukraine to fight Russia. This was the very purpose for which the West entered into the pretense of the Minsk Accords, and what took form in place of the duplicitous promise of peace with the Minsk Accords, as confessed to by Western and Ukrainian signatories of those same Minks Accords.
Had Russia failed to act against the mounting threat from the West, they would have been providing their stated enemies with the same advantage which Meir ceded to the Arabs in 1973. Well, Putin is not Meir and Russia is not Israel. Putin will do what is in the interest of Russia, as any sovereign leader should do. In fact, I earnestly expect and hope that Bibi will continue to do exactly this, even to the displeasure of the totalitarian threat emanating from the US. And what exactly is the nature of the threat emanating from the US? That all nations must do as the US demands or suffer a US sponsored regime change which will usher in a new regime, no matter how odious or how illegitimate or how unrepresentative of the people, to execute the bidding of the US, as is exactly what took place in Ukraine in 2014, and has continued to control that “sovereign nation”, as you falsely describe that pathetic American proxy state, to this day.
Data against the hoax that accuses Ukraine of committing a ‘genocide’ in the Donbas
https://www.outono.net/elentir/2022/03/20/data-against-the-hoax-that-accuses-ukraine-of-committing-a-genocide-in-the-donbas/
@Laura
First, you cited the article from the Atlantic, which has in large part structured the US overthrow and control of Ukraine by the US.
Second, the article once again takes Putin’s words out of context to suit their purpose. Thru selective editing they pick the phrase
to represent Putin’s statement, but this is clearly not what is represented in Putin’s statement. Here is the full context from which that cherry-picked comment was plucked:
Again, please explain how this statement fairly supports the claim intent that
Putin is an “unapologetically imperialistic attitude toward Russian-Ukrainian relations” as is claimed in the neocon draft article you cited.
It’s not for putin to “let” or not “let” Ukraine be part of NATO. Ukraine is a sovereign nation who will decide whether or not it wants to be a part of NATO. NATO is a defensive alliance of free nations who have chosen to be a part of it. Russia has a history of abusing and invading its neighbors, so there’s good reason why they wanted to be part of NATO.
@Laura
The US is the imperialist, not Russia. The US wants to spread liberal democracy in many parts oif the world including Ukraine and Russia. What right does the US have to do this? The US is not a respecter of anyones sovereignty.
Kennedy wouldn’t let Kruschev put missiles in Cuba. Why should Putin let NATO into Ukraine.
@Laura
Thank you for your response here.
So you think the Ukraine war was a war of conquest. Well with this in mind how do you explain that Putin was ready to go back to the February 2022 borders in April of 2022 or that all he wanted to avoid war was a guarantee against NATO extension to Ukraine, something which he described as a Red line 15yrs before the war. Ignore the routine line that he has no right to suggest such a thing, as we can discuss that separately. If Russia’s invasion of Ukraine was a war of conquest, then no such bargain as Russia proposed, and had been proposing for 15yrs, would have halted their invasion. Also, if this was a war of conquest, why do you believe that a fraction of the force to achieve the conquest of Ukraine was actually employed. I mean if you really believe that this was a war of conquest, why was there no call up of the army? Do recall that this is not the first war Putin has fought, yet you would have us believe that he entered into a war with an veteran Ukrainian army which had been trained, funded and armed with US/NATO weapons and tactics and which had extensive US support and intel assistance, and that he did so with a minimal force which could never have accomplished the task even if all of these worrying advantages were not held by Ukraine? Your position has many holes to which I am curious how or if you will actually respond.
Also,
I told you before that you took this comment out of context. Here is the actual quote with the full context to which that claim is attributed without any merit:
Tell me how this statement in any way suggests what you claimed:
Nobody forced this war on putin. In his own words he has stated that he wants to revive the Russian empire and that he doesn’t consider Ukraine to be a nation. Putin is an imperialist, the invasion of Ukraine is a war of conquest. it’s that simple.
As regards Mearsheimer it’s unfathomable how someone with his knowledge and who calls himself a foreign policy realist can be so blind. I agree with Ted don’t watch his comments on Gaza but unfortunately I did see the first few minutes. He agrees that Israel is committing genocide in Gaza. He sees Biden, despite all evidence to the contrary, as joined at the hip with and friendly to Israel. And there is no recognition that Hamas are Nazis redux, indeed with a direct genetic line to Al Amin Husseini the grand Mufti who collaborated with Hitler. There is only one explanation and it bothers me but we can only infer, his protestations to the contrary, that he’s an anti Semite in a suit.
Peloni, are you lonely? Trying to get my attention? I see you’ve mentioned my “name.” How may I help you… and Ted, and Felix and Seymour?
You know, when Jesus poured out his soul, paying the ransom price on behalf of the world, he certainly had you on his heart. That you all needed to be ransomed from eternal torment, does not shock me in the least; nor am I in the least in doubt of my own need; but why he did it????? I am amazed, beyond my understanding.
Getting down to the present topic, I confess that I am distracted by ads about belly fat and prostate problems, as well as the cheery face of the “Dry Bones” cartoon, I’ll give it a go…
(I’m thinking…)
Sorry, I can’t come up with anything. Today, we commemorate a day Jesus spent in the grave, contending with the Prince of Darkness on our behalf — contending for y’all, and for me, and for Putin, for the Ukrainian guy, for all the ISIS crazies and others who profess to be champions of righteousness, for corrupt high priests and politicians everywhere, for Kim Jong Un and Xi Jinping, for Falun Gong practitioners getting their organs harvested while they writhe in pain on the operating table, for black men randomly sucker-punching unsuspecting white women in New York City,… He died for them all, to pay their ransom price. Today in history, he’s paying their price, and God is sending out the checks to you and me while His Holy One faces off with the Prince of Gloom.
Tomorrow’s a better day, for one and all. Happy Redemption Day 🙂
For those who are fixated by the claim that anyone is a ‘Putin lover’ I find it curious that such personal attacks are the limit of their ability to respond to any claim made by Ted in his seminal works
Clearly, the US is the aggressor in the Ukraine war.
Ukraine: The right of self-determination supersedes sovereign inviolability
The pot is calling the kettle, black
Also, why are there are no facts offered to support the view that America did not overthrow the Ukrainian govt, that this did not result in the founder of the Nazi Svoboda heading first the security services of the nation and then spent 5 years as leader of the Ukrainian parliament. Why can no one explain why the US spent $5 billion in a country which no one can find on the map. Why has no one explained why the US arm Ukraine to slaughter its Russian minorities which refused to accept the American installed Nazi allied Nationalist (Monist) govt? Why has no one explained why the US refused to support any peace initiative and crushed the Istanbul peace conference which could have ended the war with no territorial losses for Ukraine? Why can no one explain why Georgia attacked Russia in 2008? I have raise these subjects, and many others, many times over the past years, and the most recurring response is ‘Putin lover’.
Such ignorant, ill informed comments are neither factual nor relevant to the the facts which either Ted or I have raised on these subjects. Indeed, facts are stubborn things, so rather than once again entertain ad hominem attacks in place of providing such facts to support contrary views, please go find some facts and share them so we can discuss them like intelligent people. Scurrilous ad hominem attacks are beneath all interest and any merit in the market place of ideas.
I’ll continue to wait for a serious response to any of the issues which Ted or I have raised in the past years without a serious or supportable basis. So don’t be shy, just bring some facts and save the pointless derogatory for those interested in treating such banter as intelligent conversation.
@Raphael
Because brilliant people are not immune to being virulent antisemites. In fact the people who suggest that Israel is a ‘special’ case, or that Israel alone should provide sustenance and substantive support to their existential enemies, or that Israel has no right to self defense…it all comes down to the collective perspective that the Jewish State is unique because it is Jewish, and that is antisemitism. It isn’t rational, and it isn’t supportable, it is just antisemitism. When Jews are treated as being different from all other people, or having greater burdens to bear than all other people, or having fewer, more discriminating rights than all other people, it is called antisemitism. The same is true of the special qualifications which are reserved for the only Jewish State by Mearsheimer and other intelligent, or brilliant if you prefer, people. Their antisemitic natures do not make them less intelligent as you find them to be, but it does qualify their intelligence none the less.
Adam
A new day and another day when you take it upon your good self to censuring my views on this subject. But I am still here and was here very many years before you. But take your time I’m in no hurry at all.
In the meantime the nice person Laura who writes
But include the Holocaust of the Jews in Laura’s scenario just a few decades previous and it is reversed. The Ukrainian Banderaite movement was very much with the Nazis mass murdering the Jews, and often doing it themselves.
Go back less than 20 years again and Jewish writers have researched the massive Pogroms in Ukraine and guess what…the incipient Nazis of Ukraine were acting quite alone. Hundreds of thousand Jews killed (Jews interviewed do not distinguish between that and the Holocaust…in their historical memory there was no break in the Jews being murdered by Nazis)
Now Laura tells everyone they are lovers of Jews. I wonder how that works?
My answer to my own question above will be given in just a moment
To my detractors.
Do not atribute my position to my being a Putin Lover. I am against the American policies that have forced this war on Putin. You all focus on the Putin lover thing and avoid the facts and the American policies.. Basiclly you support these policies, I don’t.
There’s a lot of Putin derangement syndrome on this site. Let’s just say that anyone who refuses to acknowledge the malevolent hand of the US state department, the Blob as it’s commonly known, for the last 30
Plus years in the Ukraine disaster has just not been awake. Note that this is the very same Blob that also loves Iran and the TSS and hates Israel which should tell you something about their judgment.
I’m in complete agreement with Adam’s comments. I don’t know what’s wrong with Ted when it comes to this issue. Either he hates Ukrainians or hates America or both.
Just stop shilling for putin already Ted. You don’t care where the propaganda comes from. This is the guy who co-authored “The Israel Lobby”. Antisemites can never be credible sources on any issue. You obviously hate Ukraine so much that you overlook the blatant antisemitism coming from several commentators on the Russia/Ukraine issue. I’m completely perplexed by your reverence for Putin, who has revealed himself to be an enemy of the Jewish state. Like Michael and I pointed out last week, Ukrainians are pro-Israel while Russians support hamas. This tells us everything we need to know about who the bad guys are and who the good guys are in that battle, although Russia’s unprovoked invasion should be enough evidence. It’s even more obvious to tell who the good guy is and who the bad guy is when we consider that many of the anti-Ukraine crowd are also anti-Israel. Somehow Ted can overlook this, but I won’t.
@T. Belman
How is it that many (brilliant) people can see so clearly when it comes to Ukraine, while at the same time being totally skewed on Israel and Gaza? I read and listen to many such people of the same caliber as Mearsheimer. It just doesn’t make any sense.
Adam
Russian civilians in Donbass were being genocided
February 2022 Russia felt it had to save lives
Hence SMO to save life
2 months later offering peace (in Turkey)
Do you know about this offer?
Putin himself and several of his spokesman have over the past few days described
Zelensky as “a special kind of Jew” with a strong affinity for the “neo-Nazis in his administration.” (in reality, there are no neo-Nazis in his administration, But as Hitler explained in Mein Kamph, if you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it. And if it is real whopper, they are even more likely to believe it).
Be that as it may. I consider the phrase “a special kind of Jew,” ijnthis context, to be antisemitic. What do you guys think of it?
@Adam
We obviously disagree.
Ted–you should never have published this antisemite’s rantings on any subject whatsover. And in my opinion you are both 100 percent wrong about Ukraine. I belive The Ukrainianians have been waging a heroic defense against a naked and unprovoked act of aggression. Iand I even have trouble wrapping my head around the fact thact that so many intelligent people blame Ukraine or America, or anyone other Russia for Russia’s aggression against a smaller and weaker neighbor.