by Daniel Pipes, in a major article, Obama’s Muslim Childhood, published by the Washington Times, does a major service to the truth by putting his name behind it.
He concludes:
-
Discovering the Truth
In conclusion, available evidence suggests that Obama was born and raised a Muslim and retained a Muslim identity until his late 20s. Child to a line of Muslim males, given a Muslim name, registered as a Muslim in two Indonesian schools, he read Koran in religion class, still recites the Islamic declaration of faith, and speaks to Muslim audiences like a fellow believer. Between his non-practicing Muslim father, his Muslim stepfather, and his four years of living in a Muslim milieu, he was both seen by others and saw himself as a Muslim.
This is not to say that he was a practicing Muslim or that he remains a Muslim today, much less an Islamist, nor that his Muslim background significantly influences his political outlook (which, in fact, is typical of an American leftist). Nor is there a problem about his converting from Islam to Christianity. The issue is Obama’s having specifically and repeatedly lied about his Muslim identity. More than any other single deception, Obama’s treatment of his own religious background exposes his moral failings.
Questions about Obama’s Truthfulness
Yet, these failings remain largely unknown to the American electorate. Consider the contrast of his case and that of James Frey, the author of A Million Little Pieces. Both Frey and Obama wrote inaccurate memoirs that Oprah Winfrey endorsed and rose to #1 on the non-fiction bestseller list. When Frey’s literary deceptions about his own drug taking and criminality became apparent, Winfrey tore viciously into him, a library reclassified his book as fiction, and the publisher offered a refund to customers who felt deceived.
In contrast, Obama’s falsehoods are blithely excused; Arnold Rampersad, professor of English at Stanford University who teaches autobiography, admiringly called Dreams “so full of clever tricks—inventions for literary effect—that I was taken aback, even astonished. But make no mistake, these are simply the tricks that art trades in, and out of these tricks is supposed to come our realization of truth.” Gerald Early, professor of English literature and African-American studies at Washington University in St. Louis, goes further: “It really doesn’t matter if he made up stuff. … I don’t think it much matters whether Barack Obama has told the absolute truth in Dreams From My Father. What’s important is how he wanted to construct his life.”
How odd that a lowlife’s story about his sordid activities inspires high moral standards while the U.S. president’s autobiography gets a pass. Tricky Dick, move over for Bogus Barry.
@ catarin:
So then, are we to understand, Catarin, that YOU are the ultimate arbiter of those two items — “truth” and my “own business”?
If so, when did that happen?
— did I miss the MSNBC talking points on that fine day?
I checked the footage again catarin of the actual interview.
We we would all like to know is what is the truth. I just don’t believe the explanation you and snopes.com give.
The quick reply of Stephanopolous “you mean your christian faith” means that Obama couldn’t have been talking about the muslim allegations unless Stephanopolus misunderstood him. And if that was the case why didn’t Obama correct him?
As I said previously, I don’t know whether he is a muslim or not. I can’t see into the man’s soul. But no christian would ever recite the muslim call to prayer as he has done (and ask Walid Shoebat what that prayer actually means) or call the Quaran holy. Both those things are an anethama for christians.
Andrew, if truth means nothing to you, then there’s no point continuing.
Dweller, mind your own business.
@ catarin:
You’re off-point, Catarin.
I raised the matter expressly in response to your comment that “whatever his beliefs, Obama lives his life in a very Christian way.”
My reply was to say, in not so many words, ‘That’s a crock’ — and to show you why.
If you weren’t prepared to address this matter, you shouldn’t have made the gratuitous (albeit perhaps off-hand) remark about BHO living his life in a “very Christian way”
— no way I’d let that pass.
As for your post itself:
As I told you, Catarin, my reply comment in re Obama’s ‘very Christian way’ was explicitly about INFANTICIDE — only peripherally about abortion. Do you not understand the difference?
To repeat what I said, above (this time, in precisely so many words):
Okay, since you insist on invoking the standard “Planned Parenthood trinity” to justify abortion, let’s look at just those 3 parties (and no others) whose business you say it is
— in reverse order.
What you refer to as “G-d” is very clear on the subject:
— He’s outraged by it.
It’s perfectly clear that from the moment one of the woman’s ova merges with a man’s sperm cell, the unborn child is INDEED part of the woman’s (and man’s) family.
That’s not mere opinion, that’s genetics.
The woman doesn’t ‘stop being a mother’ (let alone, ‘prevent herself’ from becoming one) by aborting the pregnancy.
— Quite the contrary: She becomes thereby the mother of a dead baby.
Finally, in regard to “the woman”: are we to understand that you believe it would’ve been okay if YOUR mother had terminated her pregnancy while she was carrying YOU?
I don’t need to “check the quote”.
Saying that he was really putting “my muslim faith” in inverted commas makes no sense because why would Stephanopoulos say straight away “you mean your Christian faith”
@ Andrew:
No, Andrew, you did not check the quote carefully. Obama said John McCain never made a comment about “my Muslim faith” unlike other Republicans. He was not claiming to be a Muslim. He said some Republicans were trying to connect him to being a Muslim, when in fact, he is a Christian. When I googled: Stephanopolous interview Obama Muslim, it went to Snope.com, where it is explained.
Here’s my opinion on abortion. It isn’t anyone else’s damned business except the woman, her family and G-d. It’s not the government’s business, it’s not the business of any religions, and it’s not the business of the sadists who want to keep women under their thumbs. I don’t care about anyone else’s opinion, I don’t care about their arguments. It’s not their business. So when these A—h—s want to regulate birth control and reproductive rights like some Republicans do, they can pack their bags and secede from the Union. The sooner the better.
@ Andrew:
Ah, yes, I remember it well.
So nice of George to correct him as he did. [“You mean your CHRISTIAN faith.”]
In fact it was so solicitous of Mr Stephanopoulos, you’d think he was one of Mr Obama’s handlers
— hardly a ‘reporter.’
Fancy that.
@ yamit82:
As usual, no sense of humor
— good-natured or otherwise.
Get a life, shmendrick.
@ catarin:
Another loose term.
I make no claim to being a ‘Christian’ — so (unlike some folks who frequent this site) I can’t say whose behavior is or isn’t ‘Christian.’ But I find it hard to conceive of how — in even the remotest sense possible — the term can reasonably be applied to a flagrant & persistent apologist for infanticide (like the present occupant of the Oval Office).
Where a baby was completely out of the mother’s body & struggling for breath [and the pregnancy was thus already ended, leaving no pregnancy to be aborted], nobody else in the US Senate — even the most hardcore pro-abort types [Boxer, Kennedy, Schumer, Clinton, Feinstein, et al.] — was willing to oppose a bill requiring hospitals, doctors’ offices & ‘clinics’ to protect and sustain the life of babies “unintentionally born” after ‘accidentally surviving’ an abortion intended to kill them.
They saw right away that to oppose such legislation would draw into question the sincerity of their standard pro-abort claim to support ‘choice’ as a matter of protecting a woman’s health, etc, & didn’t want to be suspected of endorsing infanticide. [The bill passed 98-0.]
But Senator Obama was willing to oppose such a bill; and did oppose it. Instead of voting “Aye,” he voted “present.” And in the Illinois State Senate, he actively & amp;repeatedly opposed it [it was re-introduced 3 times] and killed it by bottling it up in the Health & Human Services Comm. [he was the Chair] before it could even get to the State Senate floor for an up-or-down vote. [Google: “Born Alive Infant Protection Act.” Also: http://www.JillStanek.com]
Obama justified himself by characterizing a baby born under such circumstances as a “pre-viable fetus.” However, if the baby at late term is ”pre-viable,” that’s of course because of whatever injuries may have been caused to her prenatally (and which compromised her chances of survival) by the abortionist who was trying to kill her.
But “fetus”? ! !
If the baby is entirely out of the womb & no longer, in any manner or degree, attached to her mother’s body — then how in blazes is she a ‘fetus’? And more to the point — WHY does Obama call her a ‘fetus’?
Answer: Because IF she’s not a ‘fetus,’ then by law she’s a person. And the “Equal Protection” clause of the 14th Amendment to the US Constitution gives her the same right to “life, liberty & the pursuit of happiness” that the Declaration of Independence acknowledges for ALL persons.
So, if she’s a person, that could conceivably create a legal basis for overturning Roe v. Wade. . . .
Thus: To protect the option — as provided in Roe — to kill babies in the womb, the illustrious Sen. Obama favors the deliberate neglect of some babies out of the womb.
Translation: He supports knowingly allowing those infants to die.
He doesn’t just want the mother free; he wants the baby dead.
Civilized societies have a word for that.
It’s not a very nice word.
But then, it’s not a very nice thing. [So how could it be a nice word?]
And those civilized societies don’t elect proponents of that not-very-nice thing to lead them.
Not civilized societies.
During the mid-60’s — well BEFORE Roe v. Wade — pro-life thinkers predicted that when infanticide came to America, it would come by way of abortion. I confess that, at the time, I couldn’t conceive of how it might happen. I didn’t like either practice, but it seemed too far-fetched to me that the one could lead to the other.
I was wrong. The linkage is no longer far-fetched, it seems: Welcome to Brave New World.
If that’s ‘Christian,’ it fooled me.
@ catarin:
I see. They told you this, did they?
Or are you getting tips from the Vegas odds-makers these days?
Got a working definition for a loose term like that?
You do realize, I’m sure, what kind of mischief is perpetrated by having recourse to loose language that can be used to mean ANYTHING (or nothing)?
They can dance the freakin’ macarena for her too, Catarin, if it fits their fancy
— but like bowing or curtsying, it isn’t required protocol, etiquette, etc, from a non-British subject.
Or prospective American husbands who, in offering such gestures, make it abundantly clear, right up front, that they haven’t got the brains of a dime-store dildo (nor probably the utility of one).
Anyone remember when Gorge Stephanoplous asked him before the election if he thought that his faith would be an issue in the election – Obama replied, my muslim faith.
@ yamit82:
Who INDEED can know for sure? — about anybody online — including Yamit?
(But then, ask me if I care whether he is or isn’t Jewish.)
Nonsense. GOD pins me down daily.
Corners me time & again. (Frankly & FWIW, the cornering is often most painful.)
Yamit’s just envious of The Almighty
— thinks he’s better qualified for the job than HE is.
And he’s resolved to make sure everybody knows it.
Can’t speak for the late Mr Muggeridge, but I’m not an intellectual; never have been, nor especially ever wanted to be.
As for the “non-emotional, pacific high road” — the difference between you and me, Yamit, is not that I don’t have emotions. I surely do have them.
The difference is that YOU don’t have emotions
— your emotions have YOU.
That’s got a LOT to do with why you need to SMOKE, and can’t kick it.
If your dog never comes when you call him, but instead you’re forever having to chase him
— then he isn’t yours.
You are HIS.
@ yamit82:
I agree, and would’ve told him so. Regrettably the 10-day posting deadline intervened before I could respond to his comment.
If there are, Yamit would be the absolute last to know what they are.
Wrong. (At least HALF-wrong anyway.) I was considerably less than half my present age when I became seriously acquainted with that obscure first-century yiddele.
That sounds like wishful thinking on Yamit’s part.
But then, his virulent hatred for those afflicted with the homosexual pathology has always suggested a latent streak in him.
Federal prison, yes. “Rotting,” no. Told you before, boychik: I had a good time there. (I was the juke box of I-block.)
But then, I usually have a good time wherever I am.
Sorry to disappoint you.
Nope. Prison for draft resistance. HUGE difference.
If I’d been ‘evading’ conscription, I wouldn’t have been caught. Running & hiding was EASY, and common. There were loads of such options available.
I was sent to prison because I wouldn’t run
— unlike a lot of guys I knew — some of whom holed up in the University or Seminary, some of whom lit out for Canada
(and some of whom went to Vietnam precisely BECAUSE they were cowards: who were more scared of prison than of combat).
When I was indicted, the FBI agents knew where to find me. It was never a secret.
In fact, at no time during the 3 years or so of my resistance-organizing activities prior to my trial was there ever the slightest doubt as to where I would be when they came for me.
When they arrived I served them donuts and coffee (cops & donuts, y’know); we shot the breeze for 20-30 minutes before riding off in their car.
They never put the cuffs on me at any time.
I don’t write often about prison or conscription resistance; mostly only when Yamit (given his pettiness) brings it up, in hopes of somehow discrediting me
— which he never quite succeeds in doing.
The truth is that while I don’t raise the subject very often, I’m very proud of what I did, and what I refused to do. Always have been, always will be. We were right.
— and everybody knows it now. Back then, however, we were often ALONE in our conviction. Standing up for it took stones.
I’ve never ‘evaded’ anything in my life.
Why do I keep hearing wishful thinking from you, yahnkele? — now, why is that, hmmm?
@ dweller:
“Ephraim and the half tribe of Manasseh are there in the mountains over against the city of Mecca… They are strong of body and of iron heart. They are horse-men… They are mighty men of war. One is a match for a thousand.” said Eldad the Danite, in the 9th century, of one of the Jewish communities he had seen on his travels.
It was probably this community, and others like it, which two centuries earlier were among the North African and Arabian Jewish communities that participated in the turmoil of the Muslim conquests. The interactions between Jews and Arabs were always complex, with politics influencing the participants as much or more than religion. Thus, while there were instances of horrible enmity, it also seems that the Muslim armies of Mohamed were supported by large alied armies of Jews.
An Arab Muslim story gives a glimpse of the relationship between the Jewish warriors and Mohamed:
It seems that one day Mohamed had planned a battle against a particular city. Many said that the time was wrong, or that the city was too well defended.
At length, the commander of the Jews came into Mohamed’s tent.
“Tell me frankly, So that we can decide whether to leave or to aid you,” said the Jew, “Did you decide on this battle or did God command it?”
…For it is known to all that when Mohamed planned a battle, it invariably failed, but if God commanded it, then the armies of the Muslims were invariably victorious.
@ dweller:
“Ephraim and the half tribe of Manasseh are there in the mountains over against the city of Mecca… They are strong of body and of iron heart. They are horse-men… They are mighty men of war. One is a match for a thousand.” said Eldad the Danite, in the 9th century, of one of the Jewish communities he had seen on his travels.
It was probably this community, and others like it, which two centuries earlier were among the North African and Arabian Jewish communities that participated in the turmoil of the Muslim conquests. The interactions between Jews and Arabs were always complex, with politics influencing the participants as much or more than religion. Thus, while there were instances of horrible enmity, it also seems that the Muslim armies of Mohamed were supported by large alied armies of Jews.
An Arab Muslim story gives a glimpse of the relationship between the Jewish warriors and Mohamed:
It seems that one day Mohamed had planned a battle against a particular city. Many said that the time was wrong, or that the city was too well defended.
At length, the commander of the Jews came into Mohamed’s tent.
“Tell me frankly, So that we can decide whether to leave or to aid you,” said the Jew, “Did you decide on this battle or did God command it?”
…For it is known to all that when Mohamed planned a battle, it invariably failed, but if God commanded it, then the armies of the Muslims were invariably victorious.
The Jews of Yemen also have a story about the aliance of the Jewish community and the armies of Mohamed.
The Yemenite Jewish community has, or had, at least into the nineteen fifties, a document of protection which is purportedly from the time of Mohamed, and was written at his command.
The story is told:
One time, the enemies of Islam had the armies of Mohamed cornered and overwhelmed. A battle could not be postponed, but the armies of Islam were severely outnumbered by the enemy.
The Jews came to Mohamed and told him not to despair. They pledged that they would stand with him against his enemies.
But the battle had to be waged on Saturday morning.
“It is your Sabbath,” protested Mohamed, “how can I ask you to profane it for me?”
Against Mohamed’s protestations, the Jewish armies joined the Muslims and together they were victorious.
In gratitude, and in recognition of their incredible sacrifice, Mohamed had written a document of protection for his alies, the Jews of Yemen, so that from that point forth they would not have to profane the Jewish Sabbath because the Muslims would protect their peace and keep them safe.
@ dweller:
“Ephraim and the half tribe of Manasseh are there in the mountains over against the city of Mecca… They are strong of body and of iron heart. They are horse-men… They are mighty men of war. One is a match for a thousand.” said Eldad the Danite, in the 9th century, of one of the Jewish communities he had seen on his travels.
It was probably this community, and others like it, which two centuries earlier were among the North African and Arabian Jewish communities that participated in the turmoil of the Muslim conquests. The interactions between Jews and Arabs were always complex, with politics influencing the participants as much or more than religion. Thus, while there were instances of horrible enmity, it also seems that the Muslim armies of Mohamed were supported by large alied armies of Jews.
An Arab Muslim story gives a glimpse of the relationship between the Jewish warriors and Mohamed:
It seems that one day Mohamed had planned a battle against a particular city. Many said that the time was wrong, or that the city was too well defended.
At length, the commander of the Jews came into Mohamed’s tent.
“Tell me frankly, So that we can decide whether to leave or to aid you,” said the Jew, “Did you decide on this battle or did God command it?”
…For it is known to all that when Mohamed planned a battle, it invariably failed, but if God commanded it, then the armies of the Muslims were invariably victorious.
The Jews of Yemen also have a story about the aliance of the Jewish community and the armies of Mohamed.
The Yemenite Jewish community has, or had, at least into the nineteen fifties, a document of protection which is purportedly from the time of Mohamed, and was written at his command.
The story is told:
One time, the enemies of Islam had the armies of Mohamed cornered and overwhelmed. A battle could not be postponed, but the armies of Islam were severely outnumbered by the enemy.
The Jews came to Mohamed and told him not to despair. They pledged that they would stand with him against his enemies.
But the battle had to be waged on Saturday morning.
“It is your Sabbath,” protested Mohamed, “how can I ask you to profane it for me?”
Against Mohamed’s protestations, the Jewish armies joined the Muslims and together they were victorious.
In gratitude, and in recognition of their incredible sacrifice, Mohamed had written a document of protection for his alies, the Jews of Yemen, so that from that point forth they would not have to profane the Jewish Sabbath because the Muslims would protect their peace and keep them safe.
A few years after Islam overran North Africa and the Middle East, in the later seventh century, the Berber Jewish Warriors of North Africa learned of the oppression of the Jews in the Visigoth Christian kingdoms of Spain (see Spain before the Expulsion). In an attempt to rescue them, a Berber Jewish army invaded Spain in aproximately 694 CE. The invasion was unsuccessful. Instead, a Moorish, Muslim army defeated the Visigoths in Spain a few years later (711 – 715 CE). Under Moorish rule, the Jews of Spain were liberated and returned to their rightful position in Spanish society (see Spain before the Expulsion).
Long after the death of Mohamed, after Islam had become a world religion, during the upheavals of the Crusades, Jewish mountain warriors in Arabia continued as valuable allies. Benjamin of Tudela, traveling in the 12th century wrote about the Hashishim (the Arab warriors feared by the Crusaders):
[They] live on high mountains, and worship the Old Man of the land of the Hashishim. And among them there are four communities of Israel who go forth with them in war time. They are not under the rule of the king of Persia, but reside in the high mountains… and none can overcome them.”
@ Bernard Ross:
You right!! dweller as usual wrong!!! He is in his own world. He should contemplate his navel longer. It seems his meditative insight still clouded by his persona Epiphany while traveling on the road to Damascus. Chalk his insightful opinions and diatribes to ineffectual infant toilet training resulting among others in a classical case of Electra Complex with incurable complications.
@ dweller:
Such insight into male and female sexuality especially the perverted forms. I’m sure you re speaking from insight of yor own personal experiences. How about a dissertation on childhood toilet training or adaptive Sun Spot theories that relate to sexual perversity of Middle Eastern Bedouin Tribesmen?
Certainly not defended by the likes of you or most Jewish wusses of the male Gender.
There is a legal out in most offenses dealing with personal purity in Judaism . You need two witnesses. Now what kind of Jewish/Hebrew Schmuck would allow anybody to view the act no less two. An unenforceable Law.
Michael Devolin says:
September 16, 2012 at 7:21 am
There are many seeming parallels between dweller and Muggeridge, both found Jesus late in life, dweller probably after being buggered rotting in
a Fed prison for draft evasion and general mayhem? While he claims to have been born Jewish who can know for sure this being the internet. His understanding of Judaism and Tanach is pretty much standard Christian orthodox bile and viewed from a Christian POV or what he can glean from Google searches.
He makes claims of mystical transcendental insight that dwarfs in his own inflated mind the likes pf Freud Jung and Adler. Compared to dweller they were Nada! He will not be pinned down on any point he refuses or can’t defend and will always obfuscate and attempt to misdirect when cornered.
He will always like Muggeridge take the intellectual (his conception of intellectualism) and non emotional pacific high road on all subjects and he has an opinion on everything much of it like Muggeridge just plain Gibberish.
My advice Devolin is to stick around. Your style and honesty even if at times sardonic is needed on blogs like this, that takes PC to the extreme at times. Ted likes the Christians who claim to support Israel in-spite of much evidence presented to the contrary and can be defensive of this group even when it has been shown to be inimical to Jews and Israel.
I have always said even in disagreeing with his that it’s his blog and his calls. So he can censor away. While I can, I will always speak my truth and if others are offended by the truth: as Yasser Arafat used to say “let them drink the waters off Gaza.”
Stick around and watch my back. “Iron sharpens iron, and a man sharpens the countenance of his friend.”
dweller Said:
He seems to have written a lot here trying to prove the islamic influence on Obama. He could have chosen other, better, examples if dishonesty were his main thrust. Whatever Obams motives or true feelings is speculative, however his behavior is indicative. It appears that pipes is trying to establish a link between Obamas islamic background and his behavior. His behavior when viewed against his background is cause for suspicion. Perhaps his motivation to Islam is opportunist and financial, but Pipes is trying to establish a link.
catarin Said:
This may be your experience in America but many others experienced differently.
Hi Dweller, what a spry reply. I think I read the touching included a pat on the shoulder or arm around her. I was reading about ancient Judaism online. I think it was in genuine Jewish writings but it’s been sometime since I read it. It also said you can’t sit on the same rock a woman has sat on if it’s her time of the month. (I guess there was a lot of hauling out old rocks and a lot of hauling in new rocks…)
Most of the Founding Fathers of the U.S. were Freemasons. They believed in God but not organized religion. I think this was due to the Christian civil wars that went on for centuries in England and France. They were disgusted and wanted nothing to do with organized religion, no matter what variety. Thomas Jefferson rewrote the New Testament, taking all the miracles out. Ben Franklyn attended and donated to every church and synagogue in Philadelphia. So maybe Obama has a variation of beliefs but cannot say so in this age of religious intolerance because he’s the president.
Probably almost every Muslim Obama has known since childhood has been a good person. The Extremists have caused so many problems for people of all faiths, which didn’t exist when he was a kid. Just think, all those kids going to the same school, and there were no problems, at least due to religion. I think whatever his beliefs Obama lives his life in a very Christian way. And many people add variations on to what they believe. I added pet heaven to my beliefs.
Americans bow or curtsy to the Queen, but they never get down on one knee. Or maybe that’s for Knights only.
@ catarin:
If a Jew (or anybody else) tried touching his woman (that way) at that time
— she’d likely carry out the sentence (and promptly) . . . .
Probably still true today!
Only a UK subject bows to the Queen.
@ catarin:
So, when the cohorts of Mohammad, having first wiped out (by the edge of the sword) the most prominent & flourishing of the eternally conversion-averse, Jewish communities on the Arabian Peninsula,
and having then driven out of the region by main force many lesser such communities
— as a prelude to plundering their property (now conveniently free for the taking)
in order to finance the attacking armies of jihad
— this was all a matter of self-defense on The Prophet’s part?
Obviously the latter.
I can just see all those demanding women standing there, holding up score cards for each-&-every. . . uh . . . . performance (“6.3,” “7.8,” “5.9,” etc, etc).
No need for chairs. The virgins will all “practice” on each other while they’re waiting their turn.
(The boys’ll all wait in line to watch THAT.) The question is not whether there’ll be enough chairs — but will there be enough BEDS?
Then too, of course, who said that the virgins will be girls?
Seriously though, it’s odd how the Islamic notion of an afterlife is predicated on sheer physicality & sensuality.
Apparently it amounts to nothing more (or less) than a male adolescent wet dream: limitless pussy
— or more likely, a 50-year-old’s projections of what an adolescent wet dream must be like: limitless pussy with inexperienced (viz., non-troublesome) women. I suspect that the boys themselves fantasize over slightly OLDER women, more skilled at allure (as well as, ahem, other matters).
Yet paradise presumes IMMORTALITY
— thus, no need to reproduce oneself
and therefore no need for sex.
But Mother Nature is never gratuitous with her gifts.
If she gives you something pleasurable — then you may rest assured, she had a reason.
Where there is truly no need for sex
— there is no desire for it either.
@ Bernard Ross:
He’s less interested in the man’s religion than in his mendacity.
Frankly, I seriously doubt that BHO personally identifies with ANY religion, Bernard.
People like him, with extensive formal educations, typically like to think themselves ‘above’ such benighted & pedestrian pursuits as organized (and un-organized) religion — of ALL kinds.
My-dollar-to-your-donut says he holds the faith of Christians AND Muslims in altogether quite the same contempt. As a politician, he can’t say that, of course
— but since when is that news?
He’s patronising the Islamic world — trying to get on their good side — a standard tool in any politico’s belt.
Muslims may well think of it that way. I rather doubt, however, that the left sees things that way. They more likely think that eventually THEY’LL win Muslims to their own, “progressive,” mishegasse.
catarin Said:
I dont understand this comment as I dont remember mentioning the Marshall plan. I think you mixed me up with someone else
catarin Said:
You asked the question as to where he referred to the Holy koran as you has never heard it said. Now you say so what, make up your mind. I posted those links for you to hear with your own ears.(did you watch the video?) I have never heard non muslims refer to the koran as the holy koran. You should also read Teds new article with a list of relevant links today.
catarin Said:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2445630/posts?q=1&%3Bpage=1
http://www.forbes.com/2006/02/11/alwaleed-alsaud-money_cx_de_money06_0214alsaud.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CD068xXkCZc
Bernard, so what? People also say the Holy Bible too.
As for the Marshall Plan, besides direct aid and food, the U.S. gave aid to Europe in the form of trucks, bulldozers, farm equipment, construction supplies, cranes, pulleys, etc. instead of sending the cash, which was then used used to pay U.S. manufacturers. Sound familiar?
@ catarin: In answer to your question re Obama referring to the “holy koran” these videos show him saying repeatedly “the holy koran says…” Read the quote I quoted from your post
The first UTube is in front of a Cairo group of Muslims. I don’t see a problem with talking about the Quran.
I can’t tell in front of what audience the second speech was recorded. My video doesn’t work well since I use dial up. (My phone and dialup is less than $20/month.) I heard him say something about Deuteronomy before I gave it up. A lot of the Quran is made up of verses, laws and rites from the Torah. Whereas modern Jews and Christians have given up the basest of these laws as they have evolved, the Muslims have not given them up. So a mention of stoning in the Torah remains in force in the Quran. (i.e., The ancient law that said if a Jew touched his woman during that time of the month, he shall die. An ultra-conservative Jew told me that law is not in effect as long as the Temple is not rebuilt…)
If one bows to Queen Elizabeth, one can bow to an Arabian king. There’s a lack of horse sense from some of you. It’s like you know nothing about human nature or other peoples in the world. What accounts for this? The last thing you want to be is a Zealot, whom Josephus wrote was responsible for the destruction of the Temple in CE 70. Others disagree.
catarin Said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkoV52eSXZI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrJQ8_vGOuI
Obama quotes from the Holy Quran often? I’ve never seen a TV show or newspaper article saying this. Where does your information come from and what quotes has he said? I’ve read Mohammed said don’t destroy even a tree and fight only in self-defense. Of course, these verses are in the back of the Quran and are the holy verses from Mecca. The verses from Medina allegedly written by Abu Bakr and his ilk are not holy verses and are corrupt in my opinion.
One has to go through instruction to be a Catholic, but the post above re baptism in protestant churches may be true. However, anyone can go to Christian churches without joining. Ted, on what document did Obama’s parents list his religion as Islam? What Catholic school gave him special instructions as it sure didn’t stick.
I keep reading about extremist Muslim sleeper cells being all over America. The U.S. government just caught a Muslim who wanted a bomb to blow up in Chicago. Most of these Muslim agitators are young men. Guess they don’t know many Americans carry guns in public and that some have attack dogs. They think if they die they will have all these virgins in heaven, BUT are there partitions in Muslim heaven or do they have to have their orgy in front of family members including women. Are there even enough chairs in heaven for all these people, or do the virgins have to wait in line?
catarin Said:
No there’s a source you dont have to verify. I stopped with CNN when it was discovered they censored news reports so that Sadam would let them in Iraq.
Yeah. I had read about that Ted. That a devout African-American visited the Wright “church” and walked out in disgust at the hateful garbage coming from the pulpit. Also someone else said they were shocked to hear when asking about membership, that you could be be a muslim and a member of this church.
Andrew Said:
Not Wright’s Church. A group of |Christian clergy got together and phoned up Wright’s Church and one of them said he was a Muslim and asked whether he could join. The answer was that that would not be a problem as it had many muslims who are members and attending.
In my ’08 post Obama’s Muslim Connection I cite this call and a slew of other facts.
catarin Said:
You are right to say that it wasn’t a Muslim school but that made no difference. His parents Identified “Isalm” as his religion. By law, the Catholic school had to teach him a special curriculum as it did for all muslims. Accordingly he studied the Koran.
I don’t know if he is a Muslim, but no Christian would ever refer to the “holy Quaran” as he does.
Catarin said “People don’t have to convert to attend a Christian church. One walks in and if one likes it, one can become a member or attend regularly without making it official.”
Not true. I can’t speak about other denominations, other than my own. In mine, everyone is welcome to take up a pew. Week in, week out. But if you want to become a member, you need to prove baptism.
catarin Said:
Like 20 years of consecutive membership in Reverend Wright’s Church of God-Damn-America, right?
People don’t have to convert to attend a Christian church. One walks in and if one likes it, one can become a member or attend regularly without making it official.
Yeah, we better watch out re Obama. He might pull a fast one. Four years of president is not long enough to be sure he’ll behave.
In some way, I think of Israelis as being part of America. The gifts from Jews to the world cannot be denied. The U.S. has been a Judeo-Christian society from the beginning. Jews have and are contributing greatly to the U.S. and the world. Thank you!
Obama’s past is full of discrepancies and lies. If it is true that he is a Christian, I would like to know where and when did he convert if he ever did? I don’t believe that he is a Christian, but I believe he is hiding something that we will all regret later when we find out
Steve
I have always been aware of the statement many years ago by the head of the Jesuits. He said “….give us a child until he is eight years old and we have him for life…..’ I’m wondering if there could be a similar connection with Obama? It’s clear that from birth he was deply influenced by Islan, whether ihis father was religious or not. A child couldn’t not be. Pipes’ thorough and, if I may say “fair” article leads to very intriguing possiblities. Also it explains Obama’s attitude and actions concerning Muslims which are so hard for us to understand.
Obama not a muslim!? He quotes from the Koran often ; hardly ever from NT or OT.
He bowed to King of Saudia Arabia!
He goes out of his way to placate Muslims who knowingly attack our western freedom
Maybe for some Americans he smells clean but to a non American roses smell better
Which Saudi prince? How could a kid with such lowly status in the world know a Saudi prince? Is this prince still alive? Maybe I could get him to buy me a new computer.
Obama never went to a Muslim school. CNN sent reporters over to check it out. He went to a school that had students from several religions. Christian, Muslim, Confusciousism. I read Obama’s stepfather had a breakdown after they went to Indonesia. His happy carefree days in Hawaii turned into a rigidly controlled culture pushed by his family. I think this was the reason for Sydney’s divorce from him.
Obama probably did know more about Islam than the average U.S. kid. But he never turned to it. His white house dog is proof he is not a Muslim now. And I see no proof that he was ever a Muslim. His half sister by Obama’s stepfather is not a Muslim either.
Obama lied about his past. Why is that hard to understand. Pipes is not suggesting he is now a Muslim. Catarin, please reread Pipes’ conclusions. Obama also had a Muslim step-father, and please do not insult yourself by suggesting attendance at a Muslim school had no impact.
@ catarin:
His school in Indonesia.
Disagree! After Pipes very long article he is unable to come to a conclusion supported by a preponderance of evidence. Obama is clearly operating as a muslim president, which is incredible when one thinks of 9-11; one can only wonder at the mental capacity of the american electorate. By the way if one leaves the muslim religion he is condemned to death, unless he is acting under cover. He always refers to the “holy quran” not just he quran. Furthermore, one should think about the alliance of muslims and the left. Perhaps being of the left is the trojan horse for inserting a muslim. Obama has been groomed and he was financed into harvard by a saudi prince.
I like Mr. Pipes but here he’s full of beans. His mother was the parent who raised him. His father was totally absent from the scene. So who was it that gave Obama all this instruction in Islam? His Grandma? He was raised a Christian, but he had Muslim friends from a young age. He also had friends from other religions. Did any of these little friends try to indoctrinate him in their religions?