Israel Hayom Staff
Speaking in Ramallah on Thursday after meeting with Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, U.S. President Barack Obama called for an “independent, viable and contiguous Palestinian state” to be established alongside Israel.
SO IT IS OUR RESPONSIBILITY TO MAKE THEM VIABLE AND TO CONNECT THEM TO GAZA
“The only way to achieve this goal is through direct talks,” Obama said. “There is no shortcut to a sustainable solution.”
THIS IS GOOD. OBAMA IS STANDING BY NEGOTIATIONS
He also said that if the Palestinians and Israelis spoke only about conditions to get to the negotiating table, the core issues of the conflict would never be discussed. Thus, Obama said, a renewed Israeli settlement freeze should not be a precondition to a resumption of talks. “If the core issues are solved of sovereignty and security the settlement issue will be solved,” Obama said.
THE CORE ISSUES ARE JERUSALEM AND BORDERS. CALLING THIS ISSUE “SOVEREIGNTY” WON’T SOLVE THE PROBLEM
“The Palestinian people deserve and end to the occupation and the daily indignities that come with it,” Obama said. “The Palestinians deserve a future of hope.”
THEY DON’T DESERVE ANYTHING, AT LEAST NOT UNTIL THEY MAKE A DEAL WITH ISRAEL. EVERYONE IGNORES THAT ISRAEL HAS THE RIGHT (RES 242) TO RETAIN SOME OF THE LAND. 1% OF THE TERRITORIES REFERRED TO, EQUALS 10% OF J & S. OBAMA AND ABBAS ARE AGAINST ISRAEL KEEPING 1% OF THE TERRITORIES WHEN THEY CALL FOR “67 LINES WITH SWAPS”. THIS COMES FROM THE SAUDI PLAN WHICH ISRAEL NEVER AGREED TO. OBAMA SAYS THE CORE ISSUES HAVE TO BE NEGOTIATED. SO WHY IS HE PREJUDGING BORDERS.
“We cannot give up the search for peace, no matter how hard it is.”
Obama said that based on his talks with Abbas and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu over the past two days, he believes that peace talks can be renewed.
“My administration is committed to doing our part.”
“If we can get direct talks again, I think a shape of a peace deal is there. I believe the Israeli and Palestinian publics will support it.”
Abbas thanked Obama for his support of the Palestinian people.
“The people of Palestine aspire to attain the simplest of rights: freedom, independence and peace… and look forward to the day in which they will have independence, in a state with Jerusalem as its capital, alongside the State of Israel.”
HE IS GIVING THEM JERUSALEM WITHOUT NEGOTIATIONS. HE DIDN’T EVEN SAY EAST JERUSALEM. ISRAEL IS NOT OBLIGATED TO GIVE THEM JERUSALEM AND YET OBAMA IS DEMANDING ISRAEL DIVIDE JERUSALEM.
“We believe peace is necessary and possible. Making peace requires recognition of people’s rights and commitment to international resolutions. Peace should not be made through violence, occupation, wars, settlements, siege and the denial of refugee rights.”
The New York Times reported on Wednesday that Abbas may soften his demand that Netanyahu publicly declare a settlement construction freeze as a precondition for the resumption of peace negotiations.
This shift was reflected in a draft list of talking points obtained by The New York Times that was prepared for Abbas by the Palestinian Authority’s Negotiations Affairs Department ahead of his meeting with Obama.
“He can pledge to you secretly that he will stop settlement activities during the period of negotiations,” one talking point read, referring to Netanyahu.
Another talking point was that Abbas should ask Obama to persuade Netanyahu to agree to use the 1967 borders as a starting point for negotiations.
According to the talking points, Abbas might suggest a dissolution of the Palestinian Authority and returning the West Bank to direct Israeli control if no progress is made toward a Palestinian state.
Abbas was also reportedly set to tell Obama that the Palestinian Authority would not use its new status as a U.N. non member observer state to sue Israel in the International Criminal Court unless Israel starts construction in the E1 area between Jerusalem and Maaleh Adumim.
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@ yamit8
Dear Yamit 82, Have a very excellent Passover, may you enjoy the company of friends,
@ yamit82:
Maybe so. The point, however, was simply that whenever the assertion is made that contiguity is important, the RESPONSE should be that “contiguity” is a non-starter, because contiguity for the one means NO contiguity for the other.
— They cannot, in the nature of things, both be contiguous.
And that response should be instant & unyielding at LEAST until such time as it’s answered. The matter should NEVER be ignored, or conceded by default.
Yes, it certainly seems extraordinarily rare to hear the question asked. Here is one of the few instances I’ve seen that directly EVEN APPROACHES the question.
Insofar as “they” consists of the State Dept bureaucracy, that’s undeniably true.
— DON’T think it’s true, however, of the American people at large.
I seriously DOUBT, Yamit, that you personally “can understand” much of anything about those modernday Americans who identify as ‘christians’ — unless it’s leftwing ‘christians’ you have in mind when using the term (but then, “leftwing christian” is something of an oxymoron anyway).
In any event, the real fault of contemporary Christians is in their allowing themselves to be led (consciously or otherwise) by the mainstream media, and failing to think thru the implications of Jewish divestiture from Y/S (of all places).
— That’s changing, BTW, but there is still plenty of work to be done in opening their eyes.
Honey Bee Said:
Not likely. 🙂
@ Honey Bee:
trust is not a factor in any of my thoughts re Israel or the Jews. I trust people to operate within their perceptions of their self interest.
@ Bernard Ross:
Never trust the Devil [ Obama] when he has his arm around your sholder. And if he has a southern accent********run.
yamit82 Said:
the jews have been operating under duress for centuries and still have the habit. there is a basic principle of law that agreements and contracts made under duress are unenforceable. If anyone has a right to change course and repudiate agreements and understandings of thepast it is Israel and the Jews. Therefore, there is an argument for sudden massive change of doctrine vs the world. It can merely be said that in the past Israel did not pursue jewish rights due to duress and pressure and threats.
There is one scenario which can mitigate the lack of pursuit of various issues, albeit a weak justification. If the transparency and pursuit endangers a secret strategy. EG in the last 4 years of Obamas term what have the pals gained and Israel lost in the dispute? Their only gain was the appearance of a state. However, the status quo is what still remains. There has been a lot of rhetoric, etc but at this moment the bottom line is that gaza and the PA are subdued without moving forward in negotiations. It may be that stalling is considered the best option and that stalling relies on a drama for the street which cannot be revealed or the t actic would fail. A soap opera which appears to play out but a year later everything is back to square one. It may also be that everyone, including hamas and abbas,prefer the status quo to moving “forward” and making “compromises”. No one gets assassinated for the status quo and not making compromises. Perhaps arab compromises are something which must happen over a prolonged period of adjustment to a reality. Just an alternate possibility, yet weak and problematic as it facilitates erosion.
The prime problem is that europeans are funding the pals against israel in area C and the stalling is eroding Jewish control. Israel needs to make area C verboten to europeans and to confiscate any funds they send which contradict the standing treaties encouraging the close settlement of the Jewish people west of the Jordan River”. This can be done now by asserting legal Jewish settlement rights without having to extend sovereignty and deal with enfranchisement of arabs at this time. In fact, a legal argument against any Palestinian sovereignty is that areas in their control are JEW FREE and thus would endanger jewish legal settlement rights. This can be a legal argument for continuing the occupation as the only way of protecting the Jewish guaranteed legal settlement rights. As occupied territory and as a military zone the european activities can be deemed illegal activity as they violate international law and treaties. The whole basis of the trusteeship was to settle Jews west of the Jordan river including YS;there is no legal basis for assuming its cancellation or expiration; the sovereignty issues re the state of Israel are the red herring which confuses everyone’s minds. One way to circumvent this red herring argument is to directly settle diaspora jews in YS without their emigration first to Israel. Wouldn’t this be acceptable to the diaspora ultra orthodox? The state could provide free land grants to diaspora jews for the sole purpose of fulfilling the legal obligation of “encouraging the close settlement of Jews west of the Jordan river”. The state of Israel can act in the same manner as the former mandate trustee and occupier. What possible legal argument can be raised against this?
from aaron klein at WND
1@ yamit82:
C’boy does a lot of negociations, When he wants someting from a deficult personality,he pours praise and compliments all over him “like syrup on pancakes” and C’boy usually gets what he wants. I think the Israeli govt was doing the same with Obama. And Obama [narcacist that he is] eats it up. I hope the stratagy works.
@ yamit82:
Good point Uncle,
Israel the Holy Land is not a commodity to be bartered, auctioned or given away it is the Jewel of G-d willed to His people. Lets say, I guess this may be a poor analogy but for argument sake lets say Cinderella is the Jews, the Prince is G-d, the step-sisters are the Arabs (Pals), the step-mother is Hamas and the glass slipper is Israel. Get the picture.
Someone please explain this to the Israeli leadership.
v hardman Said:
FIFY
THE BEST THING PERES SHOULD HAVE DONE
present obama with a gilt bound copy of the levy report !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
in letters 2 metres high
Bernard Ross Said:
Israeli governments could be classified as being schizophrenic. Some build, some destroy some both build and destroy. Some fight to hold on to our gains some give it away,some with joy and pride others with tears and deep sorrow. Jews have always had a love hate relationship to the Land.
Even Abraham and seven succeeding generations were punished for giving up Land for a peace agreement. The Jews of the Exodus wanted to return to Egypt and were afraid to enter the Land out of fear. The Jews of Persia and Babylonia exiled only 70 years earlier got used to the good life in exile and refused to return after Cyrus gave them permission.
NormanF Said:
Of course they are capable, they do it every day. It’s part of their culture and they can, they can pretend… they do know how to lie (Duh)
I don’t understand why you an others are so sure your stereotypical Arab will continue to behave as you hope?
You have seen the Arabs change tactics many times like from “throwing the Jews into the sea” to “lets make a deal” and call it peace.
The Jews here are treating my country as some piece of real-estate to be rented, traded and bartered. If we have no love, no respect and do not value it why should others and why should we expect others to value it more than we?
Everything begins with principles embedded in concrete. Even you have been enticed onto the slippery slope of compromise and elasticity. Your red lines or what’s left of them are constantly being stretched.
yamit82 Said:
Will it happen? Only when the Arabs discover you can get the Jews to give up their country faster with honey than with vinegar. That means the Arabs would have to learn to love a people they hate with their guts. “Palestinian” Arab nationalism rests on hating the Jews. Giving that up would be a tall order for them. Neither Fatah nor Hamas are capable of such a move for the foreseeable future.
@ yamit82:
What a relief, I thought you were angery at your Honey Bee.
@ Dean:
Let us not forget that its this very same Hussein that said “I am a muslim”, why expect more or better from it than that? And by the way, how helpful is Bibi when in advance of that Ovomit coming to Israel that Bibi. the ultimate wimp, is ordering construction freezes? Bowing and scraping before Ovomit similar to the Ovomit bowing before the Saudi king, that is the one and only Bibi, playing the part of a kapo, still.
Honey Bee Said:
😀
@ yamit82:
Not really, C’boy has a dicha, “What do you expect out of a *******,****!!!!!!!!
My view of this trip is that it is a photo op to improve his image domestically. The fact that he only talked to the GOI and not the knesset shows he is not going over BB’s head. The convention center talk to a picked crowd of students was an image choice and doesn’t even satisfy his advisors who admonished him from the first term to go beyond BB to the Israeli people. His talks were the same but with less demands and no aggressiveness, you cant back off too quick at once. Kerry will be a pain in everybody’s ass but he has no real power just as Hillary did not. She was a parrot clone who thought she was important. Kerry is the same and he will get the same result. It is smart for Obama to give this job vs israel to kerry however I cannot see the sense of Kerry having that position in general. I think he will keep pushing through Kerry but do not think he expects results, which may be why he gave it to Kerry. I still believe that there is already an agreement for an interim agreement that will unfold in phases with the saudis/qataris operating the pals purse strings.
Iran: whatever the US is doing it is doing on behalf of the saudis and GCC. My wager is, after the most recent Turk-kurd-ocalan announcement, that the plan may be to use the same tactics vs Iran as with the “arab springs” after weakening Syria, hezbullah. Perhaps the kurds and sunnis of Iran will be used for destabilization of Iran, along with the foreign mercenaries. Perhaps they will seek to weaken the regime from within and right now are in the process of defanging the proxies: syria, hamas, hezbullah. There has been a high cooperation among many parties towards a goal.
yamit82 Said:
It suddenly struck me that this statement is true of the govt of the state of Israel.
yamit82 Said:
They also never raise the ethnic cleansing of Jews from arab countries as a precedence for transfer or as another swindling double standard. They also never raise the obligation “to encourage the close settlement of Jews west of the Jordan River” as being an obligation of all the relevant parties including the US, EU, UN and the state of Israel. They also never raise the immorality of the reneging of those agreements with the Jewish people and the unacceptable and obvious double standard. This is the reason why I always encourage the legal pursuit of Jewish rights by parties separate and distinct from the state of Israel so that the perceived states interests, and sovereignty + GC issues, do not throw global jewish rights under the bus as they have been doing for decades.
yamit82 Said:
I must agree. Frankly, after 11 years of following Israeli media and forums I have received an education I never expected. My most disappointing conclusion is that the overwhelming portion of responsibility For these issues being ignored and unresolved rests with the succeeding govts of the state of Israel. My second biggest disappointing was coming to the conclusion that the great majority Of Israeli jews have little interest in the retention of YS. I hope to be proven wrong.
@ Bernard Ross:
Without the IDF in all of Y&S abbas wouldn’t lat a week and he knows it. Without Israel remitting a couple of $billion each year they would go under. Abbas is no longer the legally elected president of the PA because his term expired 6 years ago and he knows if he calls elections Hamas takes over. Israel can’t make any serious agreement just with West Bank Palis leaving Hamas in plce as a 2nd or 3rd Pali state. Nothing agreed to by Abbas is binding on Hamas.
Even autonomy will allow Hamas to increase power and popularity and transfer all their missile technical know-how to the West bank. Can anyone see Israel uprooting hundreds of thousands of Jews? Besides the security jeopardy it would place all of Israel under;.. it would destroy Israel financially.
dweller Said:
“out of the question”? Nothing for obedient Vassals are out of the question, including dividing Jerusalem or ceding the whole city.
Putting aside our Jewish rights, legal, historical and religious, the areas America the West and our home grown Leftists and BB want to give away are exactly those lands that are our historical core biblical lands. Hebron that BB gave away is our 2nd holiest site. Rabin gave up Joseph’s Tomb and they Put Rachels Tomb into Palis Hands along with the caves of the Patriarchs. They Block Jews from praying on the Temple Mt.
Worst of all every one of our governments past and present never raise the antisemitic policy of the Arabs demands for their territories present and future being Judenrein. Nobody ever asks why Jews can’t remain and live as citizens in a Pali State?
American policy is classic antisemitism. They want Jews divested from any physical and historical connection to Y&S along with Jerusalem, while supporting racist and apartheid oriented (against Jews) Palis. I can understand you christians supporting such policies but can’t understand the Jews especially those so called religious Jews in Israel.
bary satoro will be back to US within 18 long hours……………
Good riddance,do not come back ever again !
Bear Klein Said:
I disagree he extracted from BB exactly what he wanted. Kerry will do the dirty work.
If you could see BB, you would know he’s been totally castrated.
This trip every word every gesture every nuance was well thought out for specific effect. Obama doesn’t care about his popularity in Israel per se, his object was big Jewish donors in America and reestablishing a visible control of Israel to try to win back loss of confidence in him by the Saudis and Gulf States. He wanted to make sure BB would not even consider acting alone against Iran and Syria without American green light. He probably made empty promises to BB that he would have our backs against Iran but the trade off is giving Abbas a state with contiguous borders. After this weeks slobbering love display between two men who hate each other and don’t trust the other what Obama did was to pull an ace out of BB’s play book of going over Obama’s head to the congress and the American people. He will have lost any credibility after such praise and adulation shown to our new good friend Obama.
If contiguity west of the River is important, then it’s out of the question
— because a contiguous Palestinian state would mean a no-longer contiguous Jewish state alongside it.
Obama likes to talk and lecture. So he talked and lectured. He does believe anything will happen. But he can place a check mark on his to do list
Go to Israel
Luckily I was right and he did not lean on Israel with any stupid plan. He said several things that the people who care about Judea and Samria (including myself) do not like but at this point no pressure to do anything.
Hopefully when Kerry comes back on Saturday Bibi does not get any heat.
Honey Bee Said:
Not really but You conservatives must be collectively clutching your chests with extreme nausea.
We are seeing a modern version of ‘Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde’. I find it fascinating theater. Obama failed with vinegar now he is trying the honey trap of praise and affected affection. Jews eat this shit up. 2 States back on the table, … Kerry will attempt to apply it and wring it out of Israel meaning BB. The carrot seems to be America will take care of Iran when they see fit to do so and BB has to give Abbas and company a country. No Tikki No Washi
Re: White House Passover Seders:
Gentiles are forbidden to be invited to a Seder. They may show up uninvited after all the food is cooked but are not permitted to eat of the Lamb. How would they understand this traditional prayer read from the Haggadah? :
I think soveriegnty is a problem. right now there is a form of self rule but the sovereignty resides with Israel. If a form of autonomy is granted within undetermined or recognized borders the question will be who is the state that has soverignty over the land. If Israel recognizes a state of palestine or commits to a state of palestine occupying YS then the goose is cooked. However, if Israel grants or commits to autonomy, self rule, independence, etc without granting sovereignty then Israel retains control and a possible future extension of sovereignty. furthermore a recognition of a future pal state without specifically locating it in west bank can mean a recognition of gaza. To me the most curious thing is that gaza is actually the defacto pal state and even has recognized borders, a functioning sovereign govt etc. who does not declare independence or a state. It is absurd that the “state” without a govt, sovereignty, control or borders is being discussed when the antithesis elephant in the room is operating as a pal state. Go figure, has anyone noticed this pal state? Why hasn’t gaza declared a pal state and made a claim to the west bank? What’s the catch?
@ yamit82:
I watched Obama speech and thought Yamit must cluching his chest and screaming at the TV.
@ Dean:
The Native have Oklahoma and Hispnic have south Texas,NM, Ariz, and CA. They want more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Israel Eldad wrote that the Jewish state was not the goal of Zionism – the Jewish state was a tool for realizing the goals of Zionism. “Ma’hut Israel” – the Kingdom of Israel – the sovereign Kingdom of Israel.
It involves:
The ingathering of the exiles – all the Jews coming to Israel …
Being a creative society …
It means a Jewish state from the Nile to the Euphrates …
The Temple on the Temple Mount …
The idea that the Jewish people are sovereign …
And because the Jewish people are sovereign, in Jerusalem and Israel …
Then G-d is sovereign in the world.
Eldad said:
“What’s really necessary for the Jewish people is a king. We have to strive for something greater than all the nations … We have to strive to unite Heaven and earth … We have to strive for God’s Kingdom but in order to do that we have to be like all the other nations –
All the nations have kings …
All the nations have rulers …
All the nations know that they are sovereign in their own land …
And we don’t have that feeling!
Yes, Obama, and I want a contiguous Hispanic-Native state in southern USA and a contiguous Native state in northern USA.
I also want Jews to return to all parts of Mesopotamia, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Syria, Egypt and all parts where Jews had a presence throughout history. If my people cannot return because of the racism, apartheid and antisemitism of the aforementioned countries, then I want compensation in the form of land in America or monetary compensation for all 15 million Jews in the world today.
I did hear your speech, Mr. Obama, self-appointed King of the Jews, but did not understand the part where you said that Palestinian children are like all children and like Israeli children and, if they met an Israeli mother or father, the sympathy and support would translate into sympathy for their cause. I wonder, Obama, why these children, when they talk with their own parents do not get any sympathy nor the same love you correctly identify as natural in civilized people. What they get are commands to kill Jews, strap suicide vests on themselves and to give up their lives for Islamic terrorism and supremacy. The problem, Obama, is not with Jewish values and parents, it is with Islamic values and parents and that is where you should take you speechifying and arrogant, ignorant pontification.
The audience clapping you today will have a hard time finding housing in Israel if Palestinians and Israelis were to follow your religious-based Jew cleansing program assigned to Israeli leftists to satisfy that “partner in peace” and proponent of Jewish Holocaust denial and hate, Abbas..