PM’s latest stance on Palestinian state likely a thank-you
By HERB KEINON, JPOST
In what could be the initial repayment to the US for its Friday veto of the Palestinian anti-settlement resolution in the UN Security Council, Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu went further toward embracing the idea of a Palestinian state in a statement he issued Saturday night than in any of his previous speeches or statements.
“Israel deeply appreciates the decision by President [Barack] Obama to veto the Security Council resolution today,” read the statement issued by the Prime Minister’s Office. “Israel remains committed to pursuing comprehensive peace with all our neighbors, including the Palestinians. We seek a solution that will reconcile the Palestinians’ legitimate aspiration for statehood with Israel’s need for security and recognition.”
This was the first time that Netanyahu came out and endorsed Palestinian statehood in such unequivocal language, and this statement – coordinated with Washington – is not believed to be divorced from the US agreement to veto the resolution.
Netanyahu himself said Sunday he had been in contact with US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton both before and after the vote.
In his landmark Bar-Ilan speech in June 2009, Netanyahu nodded toward a two-state solution without being as unambiguous as he was in Saturday’s statement.
“In my vision of peace, there are two free peoples living side by side in this small land, with good neighborly relations and mutual respect, each with its flag, anthem and government, with neither one threatening its neighbor’s security and existence,” he said at the time.
And in September 2010 in Washington, at the launch of the short-lived direct talks with Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas at the State Department, Netanyahu said, “Just as you expect us to be ready to recognize a Palestinian state as the nation-state of the Palestinian people, we expect you to be prepared to recognize Israel as the nation-state of the Jewish people.”
In language similar to that used in Saturday’s statement, Netanyahu told Abbas in September, “I am fully aware and I respect your people’s desire for sovereignty. I’m convinced that it’s possible to reconcile that desire with Israel’s need for security.”
But there Netanyahu said “sovereignty,” and did not mention “legitimate aspirations for statehood.” Both Israel and US officials, meanwhile, denied that there was any Israeli-US quid pro quo for Friday’s veto.
The London-based Arabic daily Asharq Alawsat, meanwhile, reported that the deal the US offered the Palestinians in return for a withdrawal of the resolution included not only US support for a nonbinding Security Council resolution statement condemning the settlements, and support for dispatching a UN Security Council factfinding team to visit the territories, but also support in the upcoming Quartet meeting for a statement that would have included a reference to the 1967 borders.
That would have been a significant shift in US policy, since the Quartet formula up until now has been that negotiations should “lead to a settlement, negotiated between the parties, that ends the occupation which began in 1967 and results in the emergence of an independent, democratic and viable Palestinian state living side by side in peace and security with Israel and its other neighbors.”
The Palestinians have long looked for international statements recognizing that any future agreement should be along the contours of the 1967 lines, something the US has heretofore refrained from doing. “Ending the occupation that began in 1967” and calling for a Palestinian state with the 1967 lines as a starting reference point are not the same thing.
The paper quoted PA Foreign Minister Riad Malki as saying that Abbas told Obama, during a 50-minute phone call in which the US president unsuccessfully tried to convince the PA leader to withdraw the resolution, that “any withdrawal from our side will mean that we will lose credibility, not just in the eyes of the 130 countries that gave their support for the draft resolution, but with the Palestinian and Arab street. We do not want to find ourselves in the same conditions that are prevailing in the region, a condition of clashing with the Palestinian street.”
One diplomatic source in Jerusalem, trying to understand why the PA refused Obama’s appeal and forced a confrontation with the most sympathetic administration the Palestinians have had in years, said that in light of the mass upheaval throughout the Arab world – some of it laced with anti-Israeli and anti-US overtones – it was definitely not in the PA’s interest to come out looking as if it “dances to Washington’s tune.”
You keep harping about abortions also – they don’t do that in the US? Also, I didn’t call you A JforJ, I asked if you were. There is a difference. Here let me quote it for you: I wrote:
I am very careful about casting dispersions, I am asking you a question based upon your previously written comments. The things you write sound more christian to me than Jewish. And by the way, I a very familiar with Breslov. I don’t recall them having the attitudes towards Israel the you show.
Are Jews allowed to teach Torah and Talmud to gentile Christians?
Inasmuch as the Jews had their own distinct jurisdiction, it would have been unwise to reveal their laws to the Gentiles, for such knowledge might have operated against the Jews in their opponents’ courts. Hence the Talmud prohibited the teaching to a Gentile of the Torah, “the inheritance of the congregation of Jacob” (Deut.33.4). R. Johanan says of one so teaching: “Such a person deserves death” (an idiom used to express indignation). “It is like placing an obstacle before the blind” (Sanh. 59a; ?ag. 13a). And yet if a Gentile study the Law for the purpose of observing the moral laws of Noah, R. Meïr says he is as good as a high priest, and quotes: “Ye shall therefore keep my statutes, and my judgments, which if a man do, he shall live in them” (Lev.18.5). The text does not specify an Israelite or a Levite or a priest, but simply “a man”—even a Gentile (‘Ab. Zarah 26a).
Resh La?ish (d. 278) said, “A Gentile observing the Sabbath deserves death” (Sanh. 58b). This refers to a Gentile who accepted the seven laws of the Noachidæ, inasmuch as “the Sabbath is a sign between G-d and Israel alone,” and it was probably directed against the Christian Jews, who disregarded the Mosaic laws and yet at that time kept up the observance of the Jewish Sabbath. Maimonides says: “The principle is: one is not permitted to make innovations in religion or to create new commandments. He has the privilege to become a true proselyte by accepting the whole Law” (“Yad,” Melakim, x. 9). R. Emden
Israel? Go up to the Land of Israel? Go up to the Land to which you turn in prayer three times daily – meticulously; never missing a ritual? Go up to the Land concerning which you shed hot tears every Tisha B’Av, anniversary of the national day of national mourning? Actually uproot themselves from the Exile and go dwell in the Zion and Jerusalem you piously seek every year, “next year?”
“For you are to pass over the Jordan to go in to possess the Land which the L-rd your G-d giveth you, and you shall possess it and dwell therein…” Deuteronomy 11.
“And they scorned the desirable land…” Psalm 106
And so you invent all kinds of rationales, all cloaked in a tallit that is all blue. “Israel is also Exile…”
Can one look at a state that rises miraculously after two millenia and watch an ingathering of exiles from a hundred lands and not see in this the beginning of the great vision and redemption? Regardless of the sins and abominations in the land? No, that which we do not wish to do, we do not. But first, we must stamp the swine with the halachic label of kosher…
What matter that the rabbis decree that “a man shall rather live in the Land of Israel in a city with a majority of heathens rather than in the Exile in a city with a majority of Jews.” What matter that the rabbis proclaim that
“one who lives outside of Israel worships idols in purity…?” What matter that they intone that one who lives outside the land “is as one who has no G-d”? One knows how to explain away rabbinical injunctions when the spirit so desires…
Living in the Land of Israel is integral to being a Jew. The 13th century Spanish-born sage Nachmanides asserted that living in Israel is not counted as one of the 613 commandments of the Torah because it is the mitzvah that underlies the whole Torah. In fact, he wrote, the mitzvot can only be truly fulfilled in the Land of Israel. Observing mitzvot in the Diaspora is merely keeping in practice.
The Jewish People has a mission: To fulfill G-d’s will in the world, and thus to be a light unto the nations. According to Judaism, exile from the Land of Israel is considered the worst punishment because outside of the Land of Israel the Jewish nation is incapable of fulfilling its potential.
I am not a Jew for Jesus but a Breslov Chassid…no offense taken. Pinchas Hamburger was one of the founders of modern Jerusalem, and Joel Hamburger was past president of the American Zionist Organization some time ago. You want to dwell alone, dwell alone in your inquity, for Israel has not sanctified the land, kill their babies, and is not a Jewish state, but a secular state. You can sit in your study halls like the Jews of Germany did and pray for Hashem to save you. I will not dwell in the land where by doing so I place my family and myself as human sacrifices for a country that will not allow us to defend ourselves….that would violate Torah also. Everyone else is a goy, and Israel will dwell alone, I understand your message and opinion. My hidden agenda is to teach the love of Hashem (NOT JESUS), to all that will listen, teach gentiles the Noahide laws, and encourage all to study Torah, Talmud, and other materials with me. You know so much, and I know nothing which is fine with me. You learn Torah and I know no Torah even though I study with some of the greatest Chassids of our day. Do not make a partnership with anyone, all who are not Jews are Avimelech, and we will leave this discussion where it is, going nowhere. If a goy is hungry I will feed him, if he needs shelter I will shelter him, if he wishes to sit and study Torah with me I will teach him. When I can return to a sanctified land of Israel, where I can dwell outside the cities as I like farming, and be allowed to protect my family, I will come. I will visit in 3 years for my next son’s Bar MItzvah, which I will attempt to have on Temple Mount. You can read about our arrest in the Jerusalem papers when it happens. Until then Shabbat Shalom.
I have forgiven you in writing for calling me a Jew for Jesus which is evil tongue. If you had done so in person, it would not have been good for you. Be careful slandering your fellow Jew in the future! G-d created this world and universe to be a dwelling place for him, not a dwelling place for him and just the Jews. It is our job to teach the world about Hashem, not dwell alone, and isolate ourselves. It is our job to bring the entire world to pray at His holy mountain, and to dwell together among us. The evil ones of course will be killed, along with Esav, Ismael, and the rest, so you do not have to worry about them. A goy sat with his friend Menachem Begin when he was on his death bed….he was a good friend of Israel and a Christian minister who arranged for millions in charity for Israel. The goys can contribute much, but no use talking to you about that…too bad. Oh, I forgot, when I was at Michigan State University in 1971, I ran Hillel House and deprogramed Jews for Jesus misfits….so I know all about them!
Here is what the sages think about it in “Eliyahu Raba”, chapter seven: “Man must remember in his heart that he must not make partnerships with a goy, and not to make a pact with him, as we found with Avraham Avenu, who made a partnership (with Avimelech) … and from here they said: there is not a nation in the world which does not enslave and torture Israel more than a few hundred years, and it is all because Avraham made a pact with a goy. From here it was said: whoever makes a partnership with a goy…”. The above Rashbam also brings down Midrash Tehilim, which mentions several tragedies which struck us, because of the seven lambs that Avraham gave to Avimelech: Israel lost seven wars, seven righteous Jews were killed, seven tabernacles were destroyed, and other tragic events….
A nation that shall dwell alone – is it a curse? On the contrary! Inherent in our isolation is the salvation of the Jew and the sanctification of his G-d.
“He who removes from himself the yoke of Torah is given in its place the yoke of kingdom: (Avot 3)
Neither are 1.5 billion Chinese suicide bombers and have no history of anti-Semitism. Should we then invite the Chinese to join us in Israel after-all they live under an oppressive regime that murders hundreds of thousands yearly? Your argument is specious and no amt. of humanitarian aid by Israel has translated into general political good will towards Israel by anyone. I too think you have a wider and hidden agenda that transcends simple humanitarian concerns.
There always existed Jews who delude themselves into thinking that if only we could bring down the walls between us and the Gentiles, we could live together in peace, and anti-Semitism would disappear. What these self-hating, guilt-ridden Jews do, in essence, is blame the anti-Semitism on the Jews themselves, who distinguish themselves from the Gentile and are not willing to assimilate. But the fact is that the very opposite is true. History has proven that precisely when the Jew tried to get close to the Gentile, a wave of vicious and “unexpected” anti-Semitism would explode, bringing with it pogroms and holocausts.
The Jewish way is the way of “Mordechai HaYehudi” – separation, and not assimilation.
Has anyone ever payed attention to the fact that almost all Jewish holidays involve to a large extent confrontations with Gentiles, our separation from them and our exacting of vengeance upon them? Take a look: Hanukah – Greeks; Purim – Persians; Passover – Egyptians. Even regarding the Holiday of Shavuot, the rabbis tell us that from Mount Sinai, the hatred of the gentile originated (and thus the Hebrew word for hate and “Sinai” are of the same root). Food for thought, no?
“And the king said to Esther the queen, the Jews have slain and destroyed five hundred men in Shushan the capital, and also the ten sons of Haman; what have they done in the rest of the kings provinces? now what is thy petition? and it shall be granted thee: and what more dost thou request? and it shall be done. Then Esther said, If it please the king, let it be granted to the Jews who are in Shushan to do tomorrow also according to this day’s decree, and let Haman’s ten sons be hanged upon the gallows.” The result of Esther’s request was 75,000 dead gentiles. I ask you, is that nice?
I love Purim!
Oh I see, we’re not ALL priests here yet, so we should forget trying. As far as showing the world anything about Torah laws, I guess you have to look for it. Its here, but you just don’t want to see it. Its not everyone – so your idea is to make it worse by importing a group of people that actively believe that a dead human (if he ever actually existed) is G-d. There’s no way to square this with Torah commandments or just the 10 commandments. Your idea, while humanitarian, violates Torah prohibitions. There’s an entire world where they can go live.
So you don’t consider worshipping the dead guy as idol worship? Interesting, and very telling.
FIne, they support us. Good for them. They have their reasons. Without them we would be in exactly the same posistion we are now, we survive and flourish by the grace of Hashem not by the grace of evangelicals.
You always find reasons to down Israel. Israel is certainly not perfect, I never claimed it to be. BUT, we are working on making it the place it should be. Sitting on the outside and bitching about things and suggesting that we flood the holy land with idol worshippers because it will get the rest of the goyim to like us is as far from helpful as you can get.
Showing compassion does not mean destroying your country in the process. There are many, many places where xtians can go to live if they want to emigrate. Secondly you are basing all this on something that is not happening at this time. Millions of christians are not being slaughtered in the countries that you listed.
I found an article about Rabbi Pinchas Hamburger who lived in Jerusalem in the late 19th century. I found nothing but medical articles about Joel Hamburger. How either of these give you any standing is beyond me. What YOU do give YOU standing. You said in an earlier post that you wouldn’t live in Israel because you can’t have your gun. You have absolutely no standing in this matter as you are unwilling to come live here yourself.
I’m going to ask this question of you – ARE YOU A JEW FOR JESUS? Don’t take offense if you aren’t, I’m just getting a vibe from you that seems like this might be the case. You place all your faith in man to ensure the survival of the state of Israel. Its not up to man, its up to Hashem. Read some Navi, its full of lessons from the past showing what happens when Israel relies on man instead of Hashem.
For all the reasons quoted above – pass.
Indeed. That’s why it’s priority #1.
FIFY
I’m too heartsick to post a comment. I sure hope the only “Palestinian nation side-by-side with Israel” that Netanyahu is talking about is the far side of the Jordan River!!!
First of all Israel is not a nation of priests, and they show the world nothing in terms of following Torah Laws. Second, I think that most Christians uphold Noahide law. Third, the largest group in terms of support for the land of Israel are Evangelical Christians. Truman only voted for the Statehood of Israel after urging by a Christian minister. There is a Kibbutz named after him. Without Christians in the United States pressuring our government to support Israel, there would be no support. Israel is a secular Zionist state, with a frum religious minority. THey abort 50,000 Jewish babies per year for economic reasons…about 4 million since the State was founded, where is the holiness except the worship of Morloch.
My question to you is, what should Israel do if millions of Christians are being slaughtered in Egypt, Jordan, Lebannon, and Iraq; not allow them to reside in the land? Are you really serious about this? There is an opportunity here to show the world the compassion of the Jews for others. Believe and do what you want, I cannot agree with your stance. I think I have some standing to make this suggestion, why don’t you look up who Pinchas Hamburger and Joel Hamburger were.
In my neighborhood of Miami, I am starting to see Christians studying Torah, and undergoing conversion to Judaism increasing. There is tremendous interest in Israel among the Christian community, and this act of charity would go fare to ensure the survival of the present State of Israel.
The inquisition is over, and Christians are supportive of Jews….at least they are not suicide bombers. This could be a very grand gesture and a good thing.
PS – hating has nothing to do with it. Following Hashem’s commandments has everything to do with it.
Sure, after they acknowledge that He is One. Then they will ask us to teach them about Hashem. Concerning the Torah prohibition:”Do not allow them to reside in your land”
In addition to the more general Torah commandment to take possession of the land of Israel, the Torah warns: “Do not allow them to reside in your land” (Exodus 23:33). The Rambam (Hilkhot Avoda Zara 10:6) explains that when we have the power it is forbidden to allow any non-Jew to reside in our land (with the exception of a “Ger Toshav” – a resident alien who has accepted some of the laws of Judaism).
Torah authorities, though, are divided over the question: To whom does this prohibition apply? Some hold that only a non-Jew who, before a court, professes faith in the God of Israel and takes upon himself to observe the seven commandments of Noah’s descendants, is considered a Ger Toshav who is permitted to live in Israel. Others are of the opinion that even if one does not accept these responsibilities before a court, so long as he does not worship idols and upholds the seven Noahide laws, he is not prohibited from living in Israel.
According to the latter opinion, good and amiable Muslims are permitted to live in Israel, because Islam does not embrace idolatry. Arabs, though, who are hostile towards us clearly do not upkeep the seven Noahide laws, for they fail to recognize the God of Israel Who has given us the land of Israel. In addition, such Arabs support terrorists, thereby violating the Noahide prohibition against murder, and they refrain from establishing courts of law which will try these terrorist, also one of the seven Noahide commandments.
While it is true that some early authorities are of the opinion that the biblical injunction, “Do not allow them to reside in your land” applies exclusively to the “seven nations” (Hittites, Girgashites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizites, Hivites, and Yebusites), the majority take it to apply to any gentile who fails to uphold the seven laws of Noah’s descendants. This being the case, according to the two main opinions brought above it is forbidden for a ruling Jewish government to allow Arabs who refuse to accept Jewish sovereignty to live in Israel, and it goes without saying that it is forbidden to present them with land where they will be able to increase the number of non-Jews who do not uphold the Noahide laws.
So the question I have for you is – Are we responsible to keep Torah laws? Wouldn’t a “nation of priests” show the way for the rest of the world by actually performing those laws that Hashem commanded us?
It will change everything Yonathan, how the world looks at us, and how G-d looks at us. What Torah prohibition are you talking about, please cite it for me. I think that everyone can agree that very soon when Egypt and the other countries become part of an Islamic revolution controlled by the Muslim Brotherhood and Iran (Esav and Ismael), that the slaughter of Christians, Baha, and Sufi will begin. Do you think the EU or United States will take in 10 million Christians to prevent another genocide, I doubt it. Israel has the opportunity to step up to the plate, and demonstrate real human values, not myopic….Israel is Jewish Zionist State, so screw everyone else. Frankly, if this happens, and the Israeli government does NOT take these people in, I would have no interest in what happens to them in the future, but I am sure G-d would. Do not think we could not be scattered again. These are unique events, and unique times….Israel is a light for everyone, and all G-dly people should be asked to join an Israel run by a Jewish nation of priests, so that we can teach them about Hashem.
This must be done, or Israel may cease to exist as a state period, and the the remnants can start all over again just like WWII. There is prophecy that in the end of days only few thousand Jews will survive. Perhaps by doing a great Mitzvot and act of charity to others this catastrophe could be averted.
But what do I know. Keep on hating, see where it gets us!
# 8, I’ve got news for you. Israel doesn’t live on the aid she gets from the US. She uses that 3.1 billion to buy arms from the US which keeps 75,000 people in the US employed.
Sorry Harry, they already can come here and worship. You’re dreaming if you think by opening the country to them as citizens that it will change a thing about how they feel about us. When they all acknowledge Hashem as the one and only, thats when things will change. Do you realize that you’re asking us to transgress a Torah prohibition?
George maybe we will thank Obama for throwing us under the bus if it causes Israel to divest from American aid and get out from under American control of our politicians and dictating our internal and foreign policies, against our own vested interests. In any event we don’t need American money known as aid but in reality it’s bribes and or payments, allowing America to control cheaply Isreal so as to buy influence in the Arab world.
I agree with this but we don’t need American money and certainly won’t starve without it.
During 1950–66, Israel spent an average of 9% of its GDP on defense. Defense expenditures increased dramatically after both the 1967 and 1973 wars. They reached a high of about 24% of GDP in the 1980s, but have since come back down to about 9%,[16] about $15 billion, following the signing of peace agreements with Jordan and Egypt. In 2008, Israel spent $16.2 billion on its armed forces, making it the country with the biggest ratio of defense spending to GDP and as a percentage of the budget of all developed countries.($2,300 per person).
On 30 September 2009 Defense Minister Ehud Barak, Finance Minister Yuval Steinitz and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu endorsed an additional NIS 1.5 billion for the defense budget to help Israel address problems regarding Iran. The budget changes came two months after Israel had approved its current two-year budget. The defense budget in 2009 stands at NIS 48.6 billion and NIS 53.2 billion for 2010 – the highest amount in Israel’s history. The figure constitutes 6.3% of expected gross domestic product and 15.1% of the overall budget, even before the planned NIS 1.5 billion addition. Last week due the what has happened in Egypt Israel added another 700 million NIS to the defens budget.
The amount of US aid, about $3 billion, has remained steady in nominal dollars since 1979, while the CPI has increased by more than three times during that period. The cost of weapons increases much faster than the CPI, and the amount which was substantial in 1979 is now negligible. The aid comprises 0.02 percent of the US GDP and 0.5 percent of its military budget. For Israel the figures are, respectively, 1.5 percent and 17 percent. Though even the 17 percent can be realistically offset by streamlining the Israeli army, the situation is actually much simpler: Israel spends 77 percent of the American aid for American weapons. R&D is a major part of advance weapons costing, and Israeli purchases help amortizing it. In effect, Israel receives the US subsidies in order to pass them to the US military contractors. The comparable Russian weapons—not exactly of the same quality, but still very good and sufficient for fighting the Arabs—cost four to seven times less. In terms of purchasing-power parity with Russia, US military aid to Israel amounts to about half a billion dollars annually and close to 3 percent of Israel’s military budget. Some of the weapons Israel procures in America are virtually useless, untested, hyper-expensive military toys, superfluous in real combat. Addicted to US weapons, the Israeli army came to resemble its American counterpart in terms of inefficiency, skyrocketing costs, and the lack of training and daring spirit.
Large-scale procurement of American weapons has made Israel dependent on America for any military operations and highly susceptible to threats of an American embargo on arms deliveries. Israel currently places tens of thousands of small (less than $100,000) orders with US defense contractors, which suggests across-the-board dependence on American suppliers for spare parts and minor items. That creates immense political dependence on the US.
The amount of US aid to Israel is comparable to private Jewish contributions, about $1 billion through charities and $500 million in Israeli bonds. Israel could reasonably double those contributions by a stronger Diaspora outreach program.
The balance of aid benefits the enemies of Israel. Egypt gets $1.3 billion in military aid annually, even though its only target and potential enemy is Israel. America knowingly and willingly funds an anti-Israeli army. Egypt also receives $500 million in general purpose aid, which frees an equal amount of its own resources for military programs. American aid is much more critical to impoverished Egypt than to Israel, and so the cessation of foreign aid to all parties benefits Israel.
America also aids Palestine; though the money nominally bypasses the PLO, it pays the salaries of PLO functionaries and employees. Now America directly funds Fatah, which even pays Al Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades and Hamas employees in Gaza with that money. In Palestine, America directly finances anti-Israeli terrorist infrastructure.
American aid is insulting. In Jewish law, it is an obligation of every individual to avoid being a burden to society at any cost; charity is the last measure for those who cannot support themselves. It is outrageous for the Jewish nation to plead for aid with Gentiles. Israelis are not that poor, and the aid is not that great.
Islam is winning the propaganda war with the help of the EU, Russia, and Obama. Israel must take the inititive at this time and:
INVITE COPTIC CHRISTIANS FROM EGYPT, MARRONITE CHRISTIANS FROM JORDAN AND LEBANNON, BAHAI, AND SUFIS, TO COME AND LIVE IN ISRAEL AS FREE PEOPLE, ABLE TO WORSHIP AS THEY PLEASE WITHOUT FEAR OF PERSECUTION, WITH CITIZENSHIP!
This would change how the entire world looks at Israel, which was designed to be a country with a nation of Jewish priests, where ALL who sought to know G-d could come and worship at the holy mountain.
We must move beyond the myopic perspective of a “Jewish State”, to a State that is run by a priestly class of Jews, where the entire world may come to know G-d.
I beg that those of you who know people in government in Israel, discuss my idea with them. It could change everything, including bring the Mashiach sooner rather than later.
This idea is IT, and a way for Israel to be what G-d always wanted it to be!!!!!!
If an article I read not long ago is correct then U.S. “aid” is less than 1.5% of Israel’s GDP. Israel would hardly starve.
Are you out of your freakin mind? We dont rely on the US to feed us. If you had any sense whatsoever you would understand that we survive because Hashem wants us to. We dont need christian or left wing Jewish support, although I do want the lefties to wake up already.
Yamit
I generally agree and with your correction. Main thing was the swing from Livni. That was my focus.
I think Georg and Laura are correct
What can Israel really do at this point? Not accept US Dollars in massive foreign aid, or go against a known anti semite like Obama who simply hates your guts. This is a hugh quagmire for Israel today. In either case, the Israelis will either lose all of their territory by giving it all away, or simply starve to death due to a lack of American support. What Israel really needs to do now is accept full Christian support and the America’s left wing Jews to stuff it, and also tell Obama to go to hell. Now is the time for the real Israel to stand on its own two feet.
Being married to Sarah , he’s used to it. They are a national joke.
Why does Bibi continue to allow himself to be emasculated by Hillary?
Terminal? You are being overly-dramatic, using such hyperbole.
Not factually correct Felix. The Likud only garnered 23% of the vote and one mandate less than Kadima and Livni. What gave the likud the right to form a government was the parties to the right of Likud and the religious parties. Then BB betrayed the NU party who recommended to the President that the Likud form the government by leaving them out and bringing in Labor instead. The Likud was and still is a minority party in Israel. ….By betraying the NU and the only really right wing party in the Knesset BB already had set the tone and direction he intended to take Israel.
No American pressure can be blamed for BB’s perfidy and back stabbing even before he had actually formed the coalition. That’s who and what he is. There will be election by the end of the year and I will take book on it. Will it change anything? Depends.
Felix again I don’t understand most of what you are saying here. I am sure you do but I don’t.
Did I say that?
Gee I thought we had reached a general consensus That BB is the one doing harm to Israel and if that is truly the case, how is my criticism of BB doing harm to Israel?
it always amazes me how you misread and misinterpret much of what I comment.
Read again what I wrote. then if need-be read it again. How can you explain what I wrote with what you wrote. If you disagree say how and why you disagree. I gave an opinion and explained why. You attack me with an out of context diatribe.
I get the feeling that you have a cognizance problem where much of what you say and ascribe has no relation to what you try to connect. I suspect you may have one of the (ASDs)?
As I said the whole of the Israel and Jewish Leadership is in serious crisis, which will be terminal if a new Leadership cannot be created, and rapidly
It is clear that Netanyahu does not differ in fundamentals to Livni
The only thing that differs is that Netanyahu was elected by a massive majority in the last election as an explicit rejection by the Israeli, Jewish people of the policies of Sharon, Olmert and Livni
Indeed I go further, much further
The whole of the foundation on which the state of Israel was created is up for question.
In this article printed yesterday and dealing with the NEW situation created by the EMPIRE BUILDING in recent weeks, as Arab dictatorships of a relative secular mode are toppled to be replaced (surely) by outright, red in the claw, Fascist Sharia states (no matter what the Neocons, the Stalinists, the PSOE labourists, the Cameron Conservatives, the revisionist SWP type “Trotskyists”, promise):
It surely is a time to choose and decide.
If you go with Netanyahu then you betray the Jews
If you go with the American Empire you betray
If you go even with Palin and Bolton you betray because the Empire is much bigger than Palin or Bolton and they will become mere cogs themselves as was shown by Bolton’s past actions and by Palin’s inability to speak in the Mubarak crisis (eventually she did but a week late!)
We really are at a dividing point.
Carry on with Ted Belman, Robert Spencer and Pamela Geller and that sort of political philosophy
Or create an alternative leadership
This leadership, a true Zionist leadership, would start by taking the same position that 4international and wedefendisrael took on the crisis in Egypt et al, and state clearly that Empire is intent on replacing secular and antisemitic dictatorships with Sharia Red in the Claw Fascist Rule, which will be intent on the destruction of Israel
In other words it is the intent of Empire to destroy Israel
That is indeed the starting point
If it is not accepted that the Empire is intent on destroying Israel, if there is the slightest ambiguity on this, then betrayal of Israel and a rapid holocaust is bound to follow
I agree with Yamit82 that it is a time for decision
Yamit,
Your continued support for absolute enemies of the Zionist cause, such as Obama and Livni, absolutely astounds me. I don’t know if I’ve ever met anyone more counterproductive to Israel. Ted Belman hosts Israpundit — which is beneficial to Israel, except in that he allows you to continue tearing down that people and its leaders. You have done nothing but wag your tongue.
Israel advocacy can now close up shop.
If Belman and those like him take a position that BB is the only game in town and we have no choice then why bother. Does anyone see any difference between the position of BB and Livni? Livni is at lest more honest and says up front what her positions are and why.
At least with Livni the right and center right could unite against such policies with a majority of the country behind them. BB divides the right and cripples any serious opposition within and without The Likud. Machiavelli would be proud of BB to date.