President Barack Obama stirred outrage with his speech at the National Prayer Breakfast Thursday, comparing the atrocities committed by ISIS to those of Christians “in the name of Christ.”
“Unless we get on our high horse and think that this is unique to some other place, remember that during the Crusades and Inquisition, people committed terrible deeds in the name of Christ,” Obama said. “In our home country, slavery and Jim Crow all too often was justified in the name of Christ.”
“So it is not unique to one group or one religion,” Obama said. “There is a tendency in us, a simple tendency that can pervert and distort our faith.”
The comments drew swift reaction.
Appearing on “The Steve Malzberg Show” on Newsmax TV, conservative commentator Pat Buchanan fumed at Obama comparing the extreme barbarity of ISIS to the Crusades.
“He’s trying to give them all equivalence to what happened in the 11th century to what’s happening today? It’s astonishing,” Buchanan said.
“The whole idea of the Inquisition in Spain – I mean these things are hundreds of years ago. That was a 30-year war long, long ago.
“I can’t think of any atrocities that have really been committed in the name of Christ … There’s no justification anywhere in all the books of the New Testament for any kind of violence on the scale of what we just saw with that Jordanian pilot.”
Buchanan said Obama has a “real problem with the cold hard truth and reality of our times” regarding terrorism.
“There is an element in the Islamic community worldwide, which has awakened and is embarked on a global crusade of its own to conquer western countries,” Buchanan said.
“But first [they want to conquer] Arab and Muslim countries and to impose upon them a Sharia law to expel the Christians, Jews, and the nonbelievers if they’re Shiite and not part of what they consider the mainstream.
“They’re using all manner of violence in order to achieve this, from Boko Haram to ISIS to Ansar al-Sharia and to al-Qaida. Can the president not see the reality of his own time that he’s got to retreat centuries to find what he thinks might be a moral equivalence?”
Buchanan also objected to Obama’s reference to racial segregation laws during the Jim Crow era during the same speech.
“To call it Jim Crow, which was a form of segregation of racists; to say that was rooted in Christianity, it seems to be an absurdity and injustice,” he said.
Former U.S. Rep. Allen West said: “President Obama is the gift that keeps on giving,’ “The Islamapologist-in-Chief attempted to find moral equivalency between the brutality of ISIS and Christianity.”
And in a statement on his website, Bill Donohue, president of the Catholic League, said “the president should apologize for his insulting comparison.”
Former Virginia Gov. Jim Gilmore, a Republican, said Obama’s remarks were “the most offensive I’ve ever heard a President make in my lifetime.”
Gilmore said it illustrated that “Obama does not believe in America or the values we all share. There is no moral equivalency for the horrific behavior of terrorists whose atrocities are shocking and reprehensible”
Reaction also poured in on Twitter.
Read Latest Breaking News from Newsmax.com http://www.Newsmax.com/Headline/Obama-Christians-ISIS-Prayer-Breakfast/2015/02/05/id/622994/#ixzz3QyT0PeOX
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dove Said:
Felix is always looking to fight with me but is too stupid to make any cogent argument to effect what he is looking for. In the end with him it will always come down to puerile Bolshevik level of name calling.
Bill Levinson Said:
“Old Testament” Is a pejorative term invented by christians to denigrate Jews and Judaism and I and many Jews are offended by the term. There is only one Torah and one Tanach. Pls refer to them by their correct Jewish names or use the term Jewish bible.
Bill Levinson Said:
Michael Ejercito Said:
Still, the Torah calls Moses “the humblest man.” Could a humble man preside over genocide? The answer is a definite yes. Moses’ humility was his entire submission to divine will.
A tremendous erosion of the concept took place afterward: Jewish humility came to mean submission to people, even down to enemies and oppressors.
Whatever his own views, Moses entirely accepted G-d’s definition of morality. Divine decrees set the standard of morality, and anything G-d told him to do was moral by definition. Even genocide was moral when perpetrated on divine orders.
Modern Jews should not shrink from the explicit commandment to cleanse the land G-d gave us of its hostile inhabitants.
Felix Quigley Said:
I hope so!!!!!
Is this directed to me or to dweller??
I assume it’s me but as to your realtives being attacked???
Sorry you will have to show me where I attacked your illustrious Jew loving relatives because i don’t see it here?
Don’t know your relatives and because I don’t know them would not specifically attack them.
So your comment to me is quite disjointed and incomprehensible in any context related to me.
Try again and be a bit clearer in what you want to say. 😛
Sadly, there are still Christians who do evil in the name of Christ.
See here for Christians who support the evil of buggery.
@ Bill Levinson:
Bill, the genocide of 1 Samuel 13 was commanded by the LORD God.
@ Felix Quigley:
I am curious. How does this attack your personal family?
No different to Islamic State? It seems that you are looking for a personal confrontation. Bring it on! 🙂
dweller Said:
Country___Estimated Pre-War Jewish population____ Estimated killed___Percent killed
Baltic countries 253,000 ______ 228,000____________ 90
Belgium 65,000___ 40,000____________________ 60
Bohemia and Moravia____ 90,000___ 80,000___ 89
Bulgaria_____ 64,000___ 14,000 ________________ 22
Byelorussian SSR___ 375,000 ______ 245,000__ 65
Denmark___ 8,000____ 52 ________________________1
France____ 350,000 90,000 26
Germany and Austria____ 240,000__ 210,000 ___ 90
Greece __ ___70,000 _______ 54,000____________________ 77
Hungary__ 650,000___ 450,000 _______________ 70
Italy _____ 40,000___ 8,000_________________ 20
Luxembourg__ 5,000 ____ _1,000 _________________ 20
Netherlands__ 140,000___ 105,000_______________ 75
Norway __ 2,173____ 890 ______________________41
Poland ___ 3,300,000____ 3,000,000_____________ 90
Romania _____ 600,000_____ 300,000_________________ 50
Russian SFSR_ 975,000 __ 107,000 ________________ 11
Slovakia __ 90,000 ___ 75,000________________ 83
Ukrainian SSR : 1,500,000 ____ 900,000_______________ 60
Yugoslavia___ 43,000 ___ 26,000________________ 60
Total ____ 8,861,800 _____ 5,933,900_____________ 67
Since 1945, the most commonly cited figure for the total number of Jews killed has been six million. The Yad Vashem Holocaust Martyrs’ and Heroes’ Remembrance Authority in Jerusalem, writes that there is no precise figure for the number of Jews killed, but has been able to find documentation of more than three million names of Jewish victims killed, which it displays at its visitors center. The figure most commonly used is the six million attributed to Adolf Eichmann.
“At least half a million Jews died in other camps, including the major concentration camps in Germany. These were not extermination camps, but had large numbers of Jewish prisoners at various times, particularly in the last year of the war as the Nazis withdrew from Poland”.
“About a million people died in these camps, and although the proportion of Jews is not known with certainty, it was estimated to be at least 50 percent. Another 800,000 to one million Jews were killed by the Einsatzgruppen in the occupied Soviet territories (an approximate figure, since the Einsatzgruppen killings were frequently undocumented).”
Many more died through execution or of disease and malnutrition in the ghettos of Poland before they could be deported. (No accurate documentation exists)
A-Most figures of Jews who died from either natural causes or due to starvation and disease in the Ghettos is most probably conservative estimates as are the numbers of Jews killed by the:
B-Einsatzgruppen as the USSR recognized Most of them and counted them as Russians and not as Jews. Only recently have Russian archives been made available for research and not all of them.
I maintain that the actual numbers need to be corrected upwards and that the most likely # are closer to 7 million than to 6 million which would place Dov’s citation of 90% very close to the real % of Jews murdered or whose deaths were a direct result of the Nazis occupation and policies towards the Jews under occupation.
*****I will be happy to match my term papers against yours. Unlike you I learned the techniques of research. You go with your intuition shown to be 100% incorrect, I deal with available facts that can be shown.
dweller Said:
.
I work on the assumption that near 100% of the Jews murdered by your friendly help mates not only did not comport to christian demands of belief and faith in Geezits but outright rejected the notion and the character himself.
According to the book they and you attribute to divine revelation and quoting just a few related and specific doctrinal verses from John, there is no other way to read your response above other than to conclude you do not agree with the NT Gospels and doctrinal christianity and AGREE WITH ME.
You say you don’t lie are you telling us a whopper now?
@ yamit82:
Not correct.
If you’d read what the USHMM website said, you’d know their figures included only the Jews from the European part of USSR (2,525,000).
If you have sources which challenge their figures, I’ll look at them, but I see no value (aside from the obvious demagogic one) in overstating what is MORE than bad enough WITHOUT having to pack it on.
If you exclude the Jews of Eastern Europe, then that percentage figure may be closer to being true, since the majority of Jews in prewar Europe had lived in Eastern Europe (nearly 7 million of the 9.5 million total European Jewish residency).
Did you get your start in the numbers game by padding your term papers?
@ Felix Quigley:
Arthur Griffith (who founded Sinn Fein) was a notorious Jew-hater
— but DeValera???
DeValera and Jabotinsky were friends & comrades.
Yamit writes in his odious and hateful manner in his way no different to Islamic State, something very sad indeed for me to say:
To Dweller
Yamit turns everything on its head. He poses the Jewish people alone in the world and the whole rest of the people of the world the total enemies of the Jewish people.
As an Irish person I therefore take this very personally
My ancestors good simple catholic and poor farming people insofar as they could remain there and not have to emigrate en masse to America were not responsible for any of this. It is doubtful they knew anything about it or could know anything about it.
But that is exactly who on this site Yamit acting the BIG BULLY MAN SO FULL OF HIS faux piety attacks continually
Look Buster if you want a fight here let’s have it. My people, the people who brought me up on the fields of Ireland were NOT responsable for the Holocaust of the Jews.
So stop your nasty slandering of my relatives because I will defend the memory of my relatives also
Attack the Antisemitism of the leaders like DeValera yes and attack the Catholic Heirarchy and their message but leave my relatives out of your nasty attacks. OK!
@ yamit82:
No, I didn’t say that. Nor did I suggest it.
@ dweller</
So you consider John 3:16,3:36,6:40,11:25 a bunch of BS?
John 3:6
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.
John 6:40
For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”
John 11:25
Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die;
So do I think it’s all crap so we are on the same page on this.
yamit82:
I have no window into somebody else’s soul. What I am certain of is that what becomes of somebody who dies has nothing to do with whether s/he is murdered (unless the murder is a direct result of al kiddush haShem, authentic martyrdom, which is an extreme rarity anyway).
Without knowing the nature of each individual’s relationship w/ the Most High, however, I couldn’t possibly know what became of him when he died (nor could any other living person know that about him/her).
How could I know that? Unlike yourself, I don’t judge people as groups, but as individuals. And I didn’t know all those individuals.
I’ll say this much as a general note: Those (irrespective of background) who aren’t sinners are as rare as hen’s teeth.
It’s not inconceivable, but there’s no way of making a judgment like that w/o knowing the soul of the individual — and knowing it the way Adonoi knows it.
Probably to wherever most other souls (the non-murdered and non-Jewish ones) go after death.
If you find out before me, be sure & let me know. I gotta lotta of people I wanna look up (and the number keeps growing).
Yep. Being in the wrong place at the wrong time. . . .
You mean, Did their deaths as a group relate to him?
— Not in any doctrinal sense, no; not so far as I can tell.
The KKK Khristian church is fuming. Obama might have to
sing them this tune.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=u3voRbKryjA
@ honeybee:
@ dove:
ISRAEL BOB MARLEY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80gwh6La8J0
Muslims massacred over 590 million non-Muslims since the birth of Mohammed
@ yamit82:
Yes, you really think it — BECAUSE you choose to think it
— not because you know it to be true.
YOUR hatred IS malicious — unmistakably so; it has a heavy component of spite.
dweller Said:
No it’s really what I think about you… What don’t you not understand? It’s real hatred but without maliciousness. 🙂dweller Said:
Doesn’t matter what I do know is enough tohate your stinking guts 😛
Stick where the sun don’t shine Fegele!!!
dweller Said:
christian terms and concepts not Jewish. Define it in any way you believe. You know perfectly well what the NT and your christians think and believe the terms mean, so give it your best shot in your own words or anybody else’s. Do you believe they were all sinners or those still under your original sin beliefs? Maybe they were also those who are considered righteous according to how you understand righteousness?
Based on your understanding and or beliefs where did all those dead murdered Jews go after death and here I mean I suppose their souls.
Is it your belief they were murdered for some sin and was their collective and individual murders some form of divine punishment? Did it in your opinion relate to youshka?
@ dove:
None of this is true of most evangelicals.
@ yamit82:
Define “heaven” & “hell.”
@ yamit82:
What you think about me is what you CHOOSE to think about me.
What you KNOW about me is less today than you knew 8 years ago.
QTC: So, ipso facto, nothing BUT bigoted.
@ keelie:
Hitler first received his indoctrination through the church. I know many people who are no longer church goes (catholic and christian) but are still indoctrinated with church teachings and live their lives accordingly. The protestant which formed out of protest against the catholic church is no better. The keeners -evangelicals, believe that christianity replaced Judaism and all Jews must follow suit. For those who don’t they are damned to hell. This so called judgement that the church claims the Jews are under by G-d are really the ones responsible for judging and condemning us.
The catholic church is slightly worse than the Protestant because of it’s power, money, and political and religious interference coming from the Vatican.
‘
This time we are not going to rely on a few good women and men to save a ‘few Jews’.
yamit82 Said:
dweller !!!!!!!!!
@ dweller:
Judged according to what or who? You? Naw, you are insane and don’t count… But if they did … if those ideas and or groups pertain to you then they are not bigoted but true so they could not be considered to be bigoted.
A spade is a spade and what I think about you is the truth so … ipso facto, not bigoted.
dweller Said:
She is correct if you exclude the Jews from the then USSR. 90% of the Jews in Western Europe and Central Europe did not survive nor some 1,5 million from the USSR. Most Holocaust researchers today believe the actual number of murdered Jews is closer to 7 million but heck what’s a million or so Jews to scum like you.
Tell me according to your jesus beliefs did those murdered dead Jews go to heaven or hell???
@ yamit82:
Somebody who applies to ideas the same blindly prejudicial attitudes that racial or religious bigots apply to groups of people.
dweller Said:
Define intellectual bigot?
@ yamit82:
Identify, please, the defended ‘indefensible.’
By your lame standards, that would be a redundancy.
But you’re an intellectual bigot right from the word “Go.”
@ honeybee:
????? Suppose so 🙂
@ yamit82:
always give the Devil his due.
@ honeybee:
That might be one job he is qualified for. 😀
@ yamit82:
Bibi !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@ honeybee:
Who then do you suggest investigate??? 😉
@ yamit82:
I doubt your qualifications or range of expertise.
@ honeybee:
I have no objections.
@ dweller:
Bottom line is there were maybe a hundred real christians according to your understanding and the rest were just plain murderes, by commission and omission. Taking into account that some of those righteous gentiles were not christian and or did what they did despite they being christian that leaves under ten who you would consider as being real christians. All I know is they missed one cretin who claims he is Jewish on this blog.
A defender of the indefensible and guilty to the end …. You are a christian apologist and a shitty one at that.
@ yamit82:
an investigation is undoubtedly called for.
honeybee Said:
Doubtful, but I think 88 is her bust size 😛
@ dove:
Don’t you want to?
Yes, it did. Just like Democrats consider themselves ‘democratic.’ The NAME somebody picks for himself often tells you more about what image he wishes to project than it tells you about what he’s in fact MADE of.
Not ‘90%.’ From the US Holocaust Museum website:
So the Shoah killed just under 2/3 of the European Jews. If you use the world-wide Jewish population as your base, something over half survived.
Not slow for individuals. The Nazis were into German efficiency. In their view, the quicker the death, the more they could kill in the time ‘allotted.’ “Slow & torturous,” therefore, would not have fit into the program.
Wrong question.
Right question:
If the Europeans had been Christians in anything other than NAME, would this have happened?
No. The true difference between the WW2 killing of Jews in Europe and the killings now being carried out by ISIS is that the former killings were accomplished in DEFIANCE of the teachings of the perpetrators’ religion
— while the latter killings are accomplished PURSUANT to the teachings of the perps’ religion.
keelie Said:
Many? Less than 1/2% of Europeans did anything to help any Jew and more helped the Nazis then they did anything to help any Jew. There were so few in fact that we have been searching for any of them since the end of the war to thank and to recognize them for such a humanitarian act. The popular retort to and by many Jews to accusations against christians for their participation in the murder of Jews some 70 years ago is met by the oft heard “Yes but Christians are no longer murdering Jews”
Bullshit. Who’s arming the Palestinian Arabs? Who’s helping Iran build its Jewkiller nukes? Sure, it would be comforting to believe the Christians now love us, but seriously, scratch the surface and you’ll find the past isn’t so distant. Why did Americans obsess about Goldman Sachs’ corruption when Citigroup and JP Morgan are just as crooked? Why do Russian spies and Taliban/al-Qaeda terrorist murderess skate and Pollard rots?
It isn’t either or. The Christians represent a threat to Jews, the Muslims represent a more imminent threat.
yamit82 Said:
She whispered in my ear and said ” as far as Bibi is concerned 88″.
At least he was smart enough not to implicate the Jews (besides Jesus of course)!
honeybee Said:
What did the beautiful and brilliant Jamie Colby have to say??
She is the vote clincher!!
@ dove:
Certainly there’s more than a grain of truth to what you say.
Europe was indeed regarded as a “Christian continent,” but Christianity was and is merely a thin veneer covering the fundamental paganism of its inhabitants.
Hitler actually reverted to this paganism, detesting the influence of the kindness (relatively speaking) of the fundamental Christian philosophies, while the rest of Europe, “Christian” as it was, used the ongoing influence of the Catholic and some Protestant churches (you know, the ones who called the Jews “Christ killers”) to justify the slaughter. Hitler himself recognized fellow pagans in the form of the Muslims to help him both justify and actually design the “philosophy” behind the Holocaust.
The fundamental Christian – or should I say, Catholic – attitude to the Jews has remained to some extent the same as it always was, with the Catholic hierarchy in the Middle East so intent on destroying the Jews of Israel, such destruction being used to show that the Jew is cursed by God through eternity for killing Christ, that they have aided and abetted the killing of their own flocks by the Muslims.
All this is not to say that all Catholics are at fault; many did the right thing and saved Jews and others from Hitler, but they did so DESPITE the influence of almost 2000 years of Christian, notably Catholic, influence.
@ yamit82:
Bill O’ Reilly [ so good looking and smart] also said, “I want to hear what Bibi has to say”. And if you watch ” The Five ” on Fx they also have said the same.
@ honeybee:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSV29-nHxwY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MUMeQnnSRE
Obama did not make these comments to condemn Christians, but to justify Islamic jihadist.
Actually, for Obama, I think this is a “stopped clock” moment (the notion that a broken clock is right twice a day).
While the Crusades may have been part of a reaction to the expansion of Islam, the primary victims were Jews – almost half the Jews of Europe were massacred in 1095-6 during the First Crusade, as was the entire Jewish community of Jerusalem when the Crusaders took it in 1099. It was Saladin who re-established the Jewish presence when he recaptured the city in 1187.
In fact, while most Jews do not realize it, Jews are not supposed to say “Hip, hip, hooray”, because the “Hip” comes from “Hep”, the latin abbreviation of “Herusalem Est Perdit” or Jerusalem is fallen (to the Crusaders), a cry that was used as the Crusaders massacred the Jewish and Muslim inhabitants of the city.
There is some truth to Obamas statements but you don’t have to go back hundreds of years to find it. Let’s revisit World War II. Let’s revisit only 70 years ago. 60 million people died. 14 million in concentration camps – 6 million were JEWS. Do I have to go into detail of what the Jews endured? Did not Europe consider itself a ‘Christian’ continent? Yet 90% of Europes Jews were killed. It was a slow painful torturess death. If the European Christians truly were ‘G-dly’ people would this have happened? The only difference between the torturess killing of millions of Jews and the torturess killings now being carried out by ISIS is that ISIS kills them a little quicker.
This does not in any way lessen what radical Islam is doing. This does not justify what radical Islam is doing. Obama has opened up Pandoras Box. The torturess killers have been Christians and now Muslims. NEVER has it been the Jews, but yet we are always the ones on the Number 1 hit list.