No good comes from interfaith dialogue, only harm

By Ted Belman

Commenting on a lecture at JCPA that I recently attended, I said:

… the lecturer said something that caught my attention. He said that the Board of Deputies of Br Jews put out a joint statement with their Muslim equivalent. He said he agreed with the statement but not its timing. Since I reject interfaith dialogue, I asked him what he agreed with. He and the British macher he had in tow defended the dialogue and argued that good things come out of it. I pressed them on the matter and they gave no satisfactory reply. I argued that no good can come from it but that it is harmful as it co-opts us to dialogue rather than to fight or challenge. I certainly opened up a can of worms. This mentality is part of the problem.

I have now received the Joint Statement. A cursory reading might suggest that it is innocuous. Melanie Phillips thought otherwise and wrote a scathing attack:

The Board of Deputies last week crossed a line. It stopped being a community embarrassment and became instead a positive menace.

It proudly announced an “unprecedented” joint statement with the Muslim Council of Britain. This said the Middle East conflict should not poison community relations. But it also condemned the “targeting of civilians”. The omission of who had supposedly done this targeting implied the Board blamed Israel along with Hamas.

No, protested the Board, this obviously could only relate to Hamas since Israel never targeted civilians. The crucial point, it said, was that the MCB had condemned Hamas.

Oh dear; where to start? The MCB, closely associated with Jamaat-e-Islami extremists and whose affiliated groups often support the Muslim Brotherhood, would never single out Hamas for blame.
UK’s Jewish leadership has strengthened its enemies

The Board had enabled it to crow – falsely but plausibly – that the Jews had condemned Israel for war crimes. And the MCB could tell its own people it had not blamed Hamas, since the Palestinians were only civilians while all Israelis were military targets.

Worse still, the Board was boasting of its deal with a body which is a front for Islamic extremism and hatred of Israel and the Jews. Its past leaders have described Israel as “the Zionist terrorist state” and claimed that Hamas “stands for freedom”.

It reveres Sheikh Yusuf Qaradawi, who has supported suicide bombings outside Britain and claimed the Torah permits Jews to spill others’ blood and seize their money and land.

In 2009, its then deputy secretary general, Daud Abdullah, signed the Istanbul Declaration, which threatened violence against Israel supporters and British troops.

Because the government views it with suspicion, the MCB is now careful to sanitise its language. Even so, its current secretary-general, Shuja Shafi, found it impossible to say on the Today programme that scrawling “Free Gaza” on a synagogue was antisemitic.

Notwithstanding, the Board claims “it gets you nowhere if you only make peace with your friends”. Really? Can we expect a historic Board rapprochement with Hamas? Or al Qaeda? Or Iran?

A clue to the Board’s idiocy lies elsewhere in the joint statement, which condemns both antisemitism and “Islamophobia” as if these were equal forms of bigotry.

This is a terrible error. While antisemitism is a true prejudice for which there can never be a shred of rational justification, “Islamophobia” is a catch-all phrase used to demonise anyone who makes a legitimate criticism of Islam or Muslims.

So while there may be some who unreasonably hate all Muslims, those who warn about the Islamic jihad or condemn Muslim attacks on women and girls or freedom of speech are condemned as “Islamophobic” to silence such criticism.’

Those who point out the virulent antisemitism in Muslim societies are similarly branded. And because the Jewish leadership is desperate to appease Muslims, it is – astoundingly – silent about Muslim antisemitism. Instead, it, too, demonises those who warn against Islamic extremism as “right-wingers” or “Islamophobes”.

The Board’s spokesman has ludicrously insisted it is right to oppose “Islamophobia” because “racism is racism”. It would appear that the Board doesn’t even understand that Islam is not a race but a religion.

The Jewish leadership has now invested legitimate criticism of Islam with a status equivalent to the most hateful prejudice in the world. It has thus helped silence criticism of threatening Islamic behaviour and made all in Britain more vulnerable to attack.

Similarly, by awarding a kitemark of respectability to the MCB, it has undermined all who struggle to defend Britain against Islamic extremism. A Muslim academic, Mohammed al Husseini, has expressed his sense of betrayal at the Board’s “collaboration” with the MCB.

All decent people, Jews and non-Jews – including truly anti-jihadi Muslims – need to stand shoulder to shoulder against Islamic extremism. Instead, the UK’s Jewish leadership has breached the defences and strengthened the foe.

Other reviews may be found here:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/stephenpollard/100284242/the-muslim-jewish-statement-of-unity-on-gaza-has-only-revealed-how-divided-the-two-faiths-are/

http://www.jewishnews.co.uk/angry-backlash-joint-muslim-jewish-statement/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28962631

http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/123091/board-deputies-approves-controversial-muslim-council-britain-statement

I replied to the lecturer who made the remark and who supplied me with the links:
Thanks for the Joint Statement and the links. I read them all.

I am saddened how such an advocate for Jews such as your self can maintain that it is the “right statement” save for its timing.

I am also disappointed that Stephen Pollard is Editor of the Jewish Chronicle wrote in his Telegraph piece ” And it has meant that instead of a focus on anti-Semitism and Islamophobia in the UK – two scourges of our time –”.  I know of no evidence that Islamophobia even exists let alone connected with antisemitism as a scourge of our times.  Antisemitism is definitely a scourge of our times. And so is Islam.

Of course I agree with Melanie Phillips and can’t improve or her critique.

But I ask of what value was putting out a joint statement with a defender of one’s enemies. What good can possibly come from it?

Meanwhile the BoD gave respectability to the MCB which is unwarranted.  It would have been better if the BoD named names and put the blame or condemnation where it belonged. Instead the Joint Statement silenced them and whitewashed the BMC. You can’t paper over the differences. Why pretend our values are shared. They aren’t.

It may be true to say that both Jews and Muslims want “peace” but the Muslim definition of “peace” says that peace will only come after Islam rules the world. For them, there will be no peace til then.

Leslie Wagner said that much good has come from the dialogue but was unwilling to defend his thesis. Too bad.

October 27, 2014 | 115 Comments »

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50 Comments / 115 Comments

  2. yamit82 Said:

    Obama is losing it and Goldberg is beneath contempt.

    I think BB showing his public contempt for Obama has rattled him…

    also he used Yaalon to speak to the US public and congress just before the election for congress and the Iran deal. BB is publicly disagreeing with his policies and agenda and Obama is using the atlantic to galvanize his liberal lapdogs in Israel and the US…..we already see lapdog, I mean lapid, hard at work defaming BB for obama.

  3. @ yamit82:

    “Believe in God in five minutes”

    1. This is not ‘proof’ of anything.

    2. Scripture does not say the physical world was created from ‘nothing.’ Says it was formless, and that there was already water.

    3. Schroeder needs to switch to decaf.

    “I thought you don’t have a plugin?”

    “Plug-ins” [videos] were blocked on the terminals at the location I was using at the time.

  4. @ yamit82:

    “G-d promised he would drive the native tribes out of the country in Joshua.”

    Neither the Seven Nations nor the Philistines nor anybody else existing in the land when Joshua & Israelites arrived (returned) were ‘native’ to it in any real sense of the word. Some of them had replaced & supplanted (in some cases, exterminated) those who were there before them — and THEY, those before them.

    Everybody arrived wherever they arrived sometime after the scattering at Bavel

    — and THEY all descended from eight people who stepped off the Ark and climbed down from Mt Ararat.

    Strictly speaking, Man is native only to Eden.

    That’s where he was put by his Maker after he was made.

  5. @ yamit82:
    This have been well known for some time now. The Atlantic forgets that the first to snub BB and tried to humiliate him was the muslim in chief at the White House. Now he is getting what he did planted.

  8. @ mar55:

    I don’t get them on my browser I even turned off my add blocker to see what it was all about and still no adds.

    I use Mozilla Fire Fox. Has built in pop up blocker too.

    Am I looking for an Arab woman??? Not any more. 🙂

  9. @ yamit82:
    To the left side of Israpundit articles and texs yu find lots of pictures of beautiful muslimas. Veils, light skins and blue eyed. Very attractive women.
    In it they ask if you are looking for a woman…

  10. @ honeybee:

    I’ll have my Mexican Gardner Jesus Goldberg prepare the tunnel of (L-)everything!!! His wife Esmeralda makes killer fudge-cakes and he owes me… Do you prefer with or without nuts in the cake????

    But if you really want to drown me in your own cake made with your own little hands how can I refuse to be in heaven????? Bring it. >>>

  16. yamit82 Said:

    Wouldn’t miss it for the world and I got a seat on the 50 yrd line.

    I got the seat next to you. Got to go make supper, you go to bed and rest up, ” don’t let the bed bugs bite”.

  17. @ honeybee:

    Heard it on Fox News an hour ago. I was thinking of checking the actual Atlantic article but you beat me to it with Front Page….

    Obama is losing it and Goldberg is beneath contempt.

    I think BB showing his public contempt for Obama has rattled him… First times are always the hardest to digest for those like Obama. He can suck it in from Afghanistan and other world leaders but from BB the Jews it’s a knife between the ribs. He will find ways to retaliate as soon as the elections are over then it will get interesting….

    Wouldn’t miss it for the world and I got a seat on the 50 yrd line.

  28. @ yamit82:

    “Believe in God in five minutes”

    1. This is not proof of anything.

    2. Scripture does not say the physical world was created from “nothing.” Says it was formless, and that there was already water.

    2. Schroeder needs to switch to decaf.

  29. @ bernard ross:
    @ mar55:

    G-d promised he would drive the native tribes out of the country in Joshua. In 1948 400-500,000 enemy tribes ran from the country saving Israel demographically for the future.

    All of our major wars are not taught at West point because there are no lessons to learn ergo we should have lost them all. 39 scuds and only one fatality, and that was from a heart attack. 39 strokes is the biblical mandated punishment and no permanent physical harm to those being punished was allowed.

    Julius Streicher was hanged with 8 other Nazis and another committed suicide just as Haman and his sons and his last reported word on the gallows was Purim Spiel…..

    Too many coincidences….. There are many more such events in our history.

  34. Roslyn Pine Said:

    As a member of the Board of Deputies I resent the criticism that it was the “Board” which was responsible for this gross error of judgement. It was the leadership of the Board which produced the statement, unbeknown to the rank and file, and many of us were outraged by it. In response, the President of the Board agreed to hold a debate on the joint resolution. Unfortunately by then many were persuaded that to rescind such a statement would harm the Board’s image. In the event those on our side lost by 40 to 124.

    It appears that the board DID in fact, when given the chance to rescind, officially supported the statement. Perhaps it is even worse after the fact that they felt their image would be tarnished more by rescinding a gross error in Judgement than by actually performing that gross error in judgement. I don’t see how it can be worse to admit a gross error than to continue a gross error. I think there were 2 GROSS errors in Judgement making it less likely to have been and “error”.
    This sort of behavior demonstrates the desire to be accepted and “liked” by the society within which the Jew lives and this desire tends to rationalize aberrant behavior. I consider this behavior to be a form of Stockholm Syndrome.

  35. yamit82 Said:

    @ the phoenix:

    Run a full virus and malware scan asap.

    If I WANTED to run one… I wouldn’t know what the heck to do.
    I assume it is in relation to the comment I posted above for Ted. (Which I is not the first time I saw it on IP, and obviously I found it odd)
    The I remembered that recently, CA has warned Ted about another [musloid?] invasion??
    I am mainly using my iPad and hopefully as a Mac, it will not get viruses??
    I know that to a more computer savvy person this would sound pathetic, but… It is what it is
    🙁

  36. honeybee Said:

    @ the phoenix:

    You not looking for a second or third wife?

    Dear hb
    Unbeknownst to you… asking me this question today, is actually funny…
    The immediate answer is..ehm no. No. NO. NO
    I hope I answered your question…
    😀

  41. @ Ted Belman:
    Confession: I am not a computer mavin, and that’s by way of an understatement.
    Are the ads for muslima.com with pix of such specimens in full regalia, unavoidable?
    Did they invade your domain? 🙁
    Just wonderin’….

  44. @ the phoenix:

    BB reached the peak of his popularity here in Israel when he seemingly stood up to Obama and lectured him in front of the world on TV. He had almost 80% support. Israelis want a strong Jewish leader even if it turns out to be BB.

  45. @ Roslyn Pine:

    It was the leadership of the Board which produced the statement, unbeknown to the rank and file, and many of us were outraged by it.

    Shades of 2005 ‘disengagement’???
    Shades of Oslo????
    Shades of today’s polls??? (A new poll conducted by the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs suggest that 75% Jewish Israelis oppose a potential state of Palestine based on the international borders in 1967, the division of Jerusalem, and Israel’s withdrawal from Jordan Valley.)

    The way I see it, is that the average normal ‘am’kha’ person is going about doing the right things, and even taking part in this farce, aka democracy, and elects persons that would hopefully be their voice.
    The example that you have shared with us, as well as those that I have pointed out, sadly show that NOTHING could be further from the truth…
    It is inconceivable (to me) that, after such blatant and mendacious 180, the PEOPLE are still going on without a fuss!
    The boundaries for tolerance of such betrayal seem to be ever expanding and there is not even a HINT that they may just snap!
    🙁

  46. Melanie Phillips is an extraordinarily important commentator who defies the enormous pressure to conform to the deceitful narrative which casts villains as victims and vice versa.

    Israel is the front line in the war against the fascism of Islamists and their liberal enablers.

    The Jews want to live.

    The Muslims want to kill them.

    The Left supports the Muslims.

    Anti-Semites desperately try to make it more complicated than that.

    But it is just that simple.

    Good versus evil.

    And as during the Cold War, the liberal left have opted for evil.

  48. As a member of the Board of Deputies I resent the criticism that it was the “Board” which was responsible for this gross error of judgement. It was the leadership of the Board which produced the statement, unbeknown to the rank and file, and many of us were outraged by it. In response, the President of the Board agreed to hold a debate on the joint resolution. Unfortunately by then many were persuaded that to rescind such a statement would harm the Board’s image. In the event those on our side lost by 40 to 124.
    I agree totally with Melanie’s article.

  49. Yamit82 wrote, ” We Jews believe we know the truth. That might seem arrogant, but faith is uncompromising by nature.”

    The truth, if it is anything at all, must be exhaustive. Nothing, when seeking the truth, can be ignored. The closer we come to including opposing opinions in close juxtaposition to each other in our discussions, as in the Babylonian Talmud, the closer we come to the truth. Melanie Phillips does a good job in this “compare and contrast” exercise that is necessary to elicit the truth.

    If we wish to compare dissimilar things, we may do so on the basis of some overarching construct. In this case, we might want to compare Islam, Judaism, Secularism and Christianity on the basis of “permissions.” What does each religious culture offer its adherents in terms of permissions. Are you allowed to kill those outside your faith community? Are you allowed to lord over your neighbors? Are you bidden to ignore the ideas of those outside your faith community?

    Traditional Jews have structured a community in which the first question that an individual asks is if a behavior is permitted or forbidden. That makes us substantially different from all others. Therefore, Yamit82 is perfectly justified if the problem is approached on this level of discourse, not only on the basis of faith. When individuals self-restrict, the community as a whole gains more freedom and more safety.

  50. Interfaith is dishonest for Jews in any form or format.

    “If your brother invites you to worship deities your ancestors did not know, kill him.”

    Some unthinking Orthodox rabbis and Jewish community leaders have joined the ranks of interfaith pundits. Like the Reform ignoramuses, they call for interfaith dialogue and respect for other religions. I wonder, how are we supposed to respect what we consider manifestly wrong? Every day every religious Jew thanks G-d for being unlike other people who worship idols and the things bereft of meaning. The prayer’s statement is unqualified: we thank G-d for being unlike all people rather than some of them.

    A Jewish textbook on idolatry is called tellingly, Avodah Zarah—foreign worship. Clearly the sages considered any other form of worship idolatry; even more, every other religion is considered idolatrous.

    We respect people for conformity to our values, not to theirs. A Polynesian cannibal might be a wonderful cook, but we don’t respect his skill in making steaks from his mother-in-law. christianity and Islam might be wonderfully correct in their own systems of values—but not in ours. We Jews believe we know the truth. That might seem arrogant, but faith is uncompromising by nature