The Bush letter of ’04: (10 years ago)
As part of a final peace settlement, Israel must have secure and recognized borders, which should emerge from negotiations between the parties in accordance with UNSC Resolutions 242 and 338. In light of new realities on the ground, including already existing major Israeli populations centers, it is unrealistic to expect that the outcome of final status negotiations will be a full and complete return to the armistice lines of 1949, and all previous efforts to negotiate a two-state solution have reached the same conclusion. It is realistic to expect that any final status agreement will only be achieved on the basis of mutually agreed changes that reflect these realities
First, the United States remains committed to my vision and to its implementation as described in the roadmap. The United States will do its utmost to prevent any attempt by anyone to impose any other plan.
Israel should maintain that the exchange of letters by PM Sharon and Pres Bush, 10 years ago, amount to an agreement which is still binding today, though Pres Obama has disavowed it. Israel should argue that the agreement is binding on the US and therefore she can continue to build in these settlements. Furthermore it should remind Obama that the US is committed to prevent any other plan from being presented. Ted Belman
New east Jerusalem construction plan gets go-aheadJerusalem District Planning and Building Committee approves plan to build 500 housing units in Ramat Shlomo, across Green Line • U.S. condemns move • President Reuven Rivlin: Jerusalem will not be divided again.
By Yori Yalon, Daniel Siryoti, Yoni Hirsch, Israel Hayom Staff and The Associated Press
Jerusalem’s Ramat Shlomo neighborhood|
The Jerusalem District Planning and Building Committee approved on Sunday a plan to build 500 housing units in Ramat Shlomo, an ultra-Orthodox neighborhood in Jerusalem located across the Green Line (the pre-1967 armistice line). The move was the first step in a long series of approvals needed before actual construction can begin and the process should take years.
The original plan envisioned the construction of 640 housing units, but that number was reduced to minimize damage to natural areas.
The approval drew quick condemnation from the U.S. government.
“It is unfortunate that after the unequivocal and unanimous position last week of the international community opposing construction in Jerusalem at this sensitive time, authorities chose to move forward,” said Edgar Vasquez, a spokesman for the Bureau of Near Eastern Affairs at the U.S. State Department. “We continue to engage at the highest levels with the Israeli government to make our position absolutely clear that we view settlement activity as illegitimate and unequivocally oppose unilateral steps that prejudge the future of Jerusalem.”
In an interview with Israel Hayom, President Reuven Rivlin said, “I’m in favor of building in Jerusalem and populating it openly, not with sly moves of one sort or another. Neighborhoods of Jerusalem have been built by all Israeli governments, in the face of large American protest. Jerusalem and its neighborhoods are not subject to debate. The world does not understand that Ramat Shlomo is in the center of Jerusalem and the provocateurs are in fact those who do not want to see the unity of the city. Jerusalem will not be divided again.”
On the other hand, Peace Now director Yariv Oppenheimer said, “The approval adds more fuel to the diplomatic fire and the crisis between Israel and the U.S.”
honeybee Said:
Never!!! What was I thinkin????
wanna dance?
yamit82 Said:
All the women you have known and you expect logic??????? Darlin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uz7xKyNK9Eo
honeybee Said:
Qué significa eso?
@ yamit82:
Casi si casi no
@ honeybee:
Sí y no. Creo que se trata de lugar tiempo y circunstancia.
Quiero que entregues tu cuerpo a mi tacto
@ yamit82:
You want me to surrender my own personal power voluntarily, Sugar???????????????
@ honeybee:
Te gustaría un hermano mayor que es su amante?
2 para una!!!
yamit82 Said:
Always, I was my own big brother.
honeybee Said:
🙂 good point!!
I think they are distant relations of mine.
Ever wish you had brothers like them?
yamit82 Said:
If I were an elderly man and those three were my boys, I’d shut-up too.
honeybee Said:
That would be my first guess??
honeybee Said:
Even Jacob had to agree and was silent!!!!
yamit82 Said:
Oh give me a break, Sugar
yamit82 Said:
Could she be having a secret assignation?
@ honeybee:
The Bible explicitly sanctions military deceit: “For by wise counsel thou shalt make thy war.” Shimon and Levi acted not without anger, but the Torah praises Pinchas, who slew even a Jew engaging in an idolatrous sexual rite;
Their actions need not comply with legal norms or practicality. Simeon and Levi acted on a higher moral plane, that of revenge. And so their laconic reply to Jacob’s lamentations was, “Should one deal with our sister as with a harlot?”
The lesson Simeon and Levi gave us is straightforward: there are cases when neither intentions nor repentance matter. Society can deal leniently with a lone criminal, even a rapist, by allowing him to marry the victim. In national matters, we are one, and the sister is always ours. Like in the NATO charter, an attack on a single Jew is an attack on every Jew.
What was Dina doing alone in the field?????
SHmuel HaLevi 2 Said:
What nonsense !!!!!!!! SHmuel my love, you need a leader who can kick ass !!! I real honest to goodness “chickensh-t”. A modern equivalent to Levi, Ruben and Simion.
Have you ever wondered why Dinah was alone in fields??? An unaccompanied young woman???
@ yamit82:
@ SHmuel HaLevi 2:
From the same GFEAT artist, (otaa ha’gveret b’shinui ha’aderet)
🙂
http://youtu.be/KLKZi1pfRJs
@ yamit82:
@ SHmuel HaLevi 2:
Meant to comment in reply to #30…
But actually this great skit by arik Einstein z”l , truly says it best!
I believe that while the pie can expand almost endlessly so as to be shared by all (INCLUDING newcomers) it is a given that there will be resentment felt by the earlier wave, that got to do “the heavy lifting”…
Fwiw, I believe that those that did not participate in the “heavy lifting”, may not have participated for a number of reasons, and some, totally out of their control…
@ SHmuel HaLevi 2:
Those of us who survived the trials of making it here can probably cite something similar…. If you can survi\ve the first 3yrs good chance you’ll make it. Not an easy adjustment sort of like going through an orthodox conversion process. 🙂
What stories each of us could tell?????????
@ yamit82:
Never tiring from seeing the keta.
I have a 40 year k’vatik claim… But I worked overseas for ten years in the interim.
@ SHmuel HaLevi 2:
@ the phoenix:
Enjoy Israeli reality 30 years ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBNWHTipwEA
dweller Said:
No you are not shocked, you sick sob, you are in denial.
veritas vos liberabit
@ yamit82:
Naturally late comers to the Israeli experiment may not expect a round of applause for joining when most of the heavy lifting is done and now remains only to clean up the political trash left over from failed attempts to create here a copy of the USA.
We do not need added dead weight leaning to remaining in the USA while “settling” here.
Nothing wrong at all being in the USA at all, but that is not the plan for Eretz Israel.
i’m shocked, SHOCKED!
@ yamit82:
That’s your baby, not mine.
That’s because I don’t push ‘psychobabble’ (political or any other species)
— if I did, you’d recognize a kindred spirit. . . .
As it is, however, I symbolize to you personally something you’re deathly scared of, so of course you never understand what I’m saying.
I’m shocked, shocked. . .
the phoenix Said:
Your wonderful idealism should be tempered with reality. You come with your eyes wide open so you will not be deflated.
Most of the early Zionists maybe like your parents left Israel a few stayed. Naive Zionist idealism should not be the compelling reason to come to Israel. Doing what is right for a Jew is. Here you make history just by being here you count for something higher than any experience in the Galut. You have a chance to join us in making the country better and trying to effect changes for the better. Your being here may encourage others to come as well. Zionism is passe in the sense that secular Zionim came into being to solve certain problems of the Jews in the diaspora.
It solved none of them but it did enable the circumstances of Jewish sovereignty in the Land of Israel and in that it was a success. The state exists, Zionism was successful and a new page is now operative and that is state building and bringing in the immigrants. The more successful the state the more attractive it is to encourage Western immigrants. That;s the goal and new mission but is not secular Zionism of Herzl. That’s completed.
@ dweller:
Now your pushing political psychobabble?????
I never understand what you are saying.
And I prefer that it remain that way.
@ yamit82:
BB can save himself for a 4th term and Israel too:
If Israel argues that Jerusalem was a divine gift to the Jewish people and therefore Israel lacks the right to surrender any of it, it will place Obama in a difficult domestic political position.
Along those lines,BB should present the conflict as being Jewish/Muslim, because that is shaky ground for Barack Hussein Obama.
Insofar as Judaism being the justifying factor in Israel’s existence, what is the justifying factor in France’s existence?
Jerry Lewis worship?
@ SHmuel HaLevi 2:
Experience isn’t what makes a man corrupt. Corruption precedes experience. If he is corrupt, experience will confirm that corruption, bring it to the surface; nothing more.
Once upon a time there was a brilliant young lawyer who was, in the course of time, offered a judgeship. He turned it down, as he reasoned that the day might come when, pursuant to his judicial duties, he might be obliged to actually sentence a human being to death — a prospect which horrified him.
— So Maximilien Marie Isidore de Robespierre never did become a judge.
“Solid Jews” and “excellent persons” will still have to run a country, and will have to cooperate with those who have the skill sets to DO that — as well as w/ each other. . . .
Revolutions rarely conclude well. In fact, more often than not, they lead to an immensely worse state of affairs than the one they addressed. But, of course, you knew that. . . .
Perhaps.
@ yamit82:
You are confirming what I commented before on different threads.
This ONE phrase is now stuck in my mind…
This phenomenon has all the ingredients to create a huge disappointment for a new oleh from ‘America’ that is coming to an Israel that he has always imagined to be the nucleus of Zionism, love of the land and its incredible history…only to find that he is back in ‘America’ and that after he has gone through all the hoops to make it happen…
As far as the “solution”… I think your comment #19 is the ONLY answer. To that, I would add
@ dweller:
Ahem…
It is Nobel not Noble.
I will check later but I believe the great Game Theory master uses that denomination, at any rate it is him I meant.
Furthermore.
We and a vast majority, (read latest poll numbers for the American beloved speechster in our PM office), are solidly against “experience” within the putrid carcass as a requisite to elections. We seek solid Jews, excellent persons OUTSIDE the cesspool. Elections as we envision must be held outside the control of the corrupt system.
And dweller, this ends the thread.
Israelis look for ‘anyone but Bibi’
Public opinion polls just conducted in Israel indicate a steep drop in the popularity of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. It may be a temporary process, it may be a transient phase, but as of this very moment the numbers do not lie and reflect a clear trend. Support for Netanyahu is in steep decline.
Read more: http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2014/11/netanyahu-drop-public-support-elections-opposition.html?utm_source=Al-Monitor+Newsletter+%5BEnglish%5D&utm_campaign=a39e197e64-November_5_2014&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_28264b27a0-a39e197e64-93117641##ixzz3IKcNHzit
@ SHmuel HaLevi 2:
His brother, Robt John Aumann, is the Nobel laureate [Econ].
Moshe Aumann is the author [Palestinian Labyrinth; Conflict and Connection; Land Ownership in Palestine, 1880-1948; Chronicles series, etc, etc.]
He’s the only one on your list who has prior knesset experience, or (apparently) legislative experience of any kind.
Interesting people in a newsroom or a lecture hall, but what’s the likelihood that any of them is ALSO temperamentally suited to the necessary give-&-take of parliamentary collegiality, deal making, etc?
In the real world even the least corrupt and most earnest of individuals would still have to do a good bit of that.
@ the phoenix:
Several young and charismatic LIKUD persons, MK’s and ministers “retired from politics” in the last few months.
None of them really retired but effected the soft show palace revolt.
Time will tell.
@ the phoenix:
Have no fear in the end the AAARABS or OBAMA will pull our chestnuts out of the fire…. Think of Dr. Stranglove’s Compulsive Arm. 😉
@ the phoenix:
Off this blog and others like it there is no apparent concern with the average Israeli and those I meet hardly follow the news, We are becoming an American cultural clone.
Unless there is a security problem I don’t believe many care or emulate our concerns and certainly not such debates….
You read headlines that few Israelis read and the apathy here is overwhelming like there is a total disconnect with reality of our situation and the people…. Israelis are living in denial and we need the Arabs to provide the wake-up call back to reality….. Even then there is so far little concern about rights Y&S or the Temple mount. When there is: the pro Israel crowds get bashed for causing trouble that could engulf us in a violent intifada. In other words agitating for Jewish rights is pinned against provoking Arab violence…
You got a solution? Lets here it!!!
@ yamit82:
@ SHmuel HaLevi 2:
1.
2.
There is obviously no argument with neither 1 nor 2. both statements are correct and true. But this leads right into this circular argument :
– the average citizen is disgusted with the lack of resolve of the goi
– the average citizen, as per yourself, is not prone to civil disobedience
– those that DID try civil disobedience, were dealt with immediately and with a heavy fist BY the goi.
– as you have said, a democracy, at this point in time is needed in Israel, like a luckh’n kop
– so to SOLVE this impasse, there is a need for a ‘palace revolt’.
– but the idea of civil disobedience is anathema to the average citizen
And thus, there is inadvertently “more of the same”, or variations of the same theme as nothing is changing.
@ yamit82:
I do not like to evaluate possible elections draw of those suggested within the combina system. That is pre set and no one outside the families circles gets in.
My proposal.suggestion must be tested on elections outside the combina.
@ the phoenix:
@ SHmuel HaLevi 2:
Neither am I so I will cut to the chase. Yes there are many qualified on your short list and others but the question remains who among them are electable?????
End discussion?
Representative democracies are the worst form of governments for nations under threat and in crisis.
@ yamit82:
I am not interested on starting long exchanges. The following are those I suggest. Others may offer constructive additions.
There are tens of thousands of persons highly qualified to be Representatives, Judges, Ministers.
Including Ted, you, several in our group and myself.
President.
Professor Moshe Aumann. Noble Prize recipient.
He is my favorite but there are many others.
Prime Minister
Dr. Uzi Landau
Mrs. Caroline Glick
Mrs. Sarah Honig
Professor Plaut
Many of those in this Blog.
@ yamit82:
@ SHmuel HaLevi 2:
Excellent question indeed.
Not being fully informed, I would LOVE to know the answer, and more than that, what is being done to ensure that this mythical person could actually be put in place.
SHmuel HaLevi 2 Said:
Who you got in mind???
The only thing illegitimate in the whole State Department insulting assaults is the person the guides those assaults. This is the Land Of Israel since thousands of years ago and no hybrid of unknown origin will be allowed to erase that.
Lets see the specimen’s true birth records and education records and in fact paternity records as well.
We need to install as leader of Israel a person of trust and integrity and remove the flotsam out.
One more example — this merely the most recent — of the extreme (and conspicuous) care which this administration takes to characterize the settlements NEVER as illegal — but always as ‘illegitimate.’
I submit that this is by no means accident or coincidence. . . .
Per Ted’s preface, it is NOT the Bush letter of 04 that entitles Jews to settle in the “settlements” or anywhere else in eretz Yisrael but rather binding international agreements that have never been superseded. We can hang our hat on that for this G-dless world as the Levy Report confirms. The real reason of course is that the Master of the Universe gave it to us – the emes.
@ ArnoldHarris: Gang…ok…step one make a massive 1 mil tax deductible donation to “rabbi” michael lerner’s progressive magazine, TIKKUN,which doubles as a good colonoscopy preparation, in return for the good “rabbi’s” services. Have him design a program with his bud The genius professor and anti-dentite cornell west, to brainwash subliminally one of the gang networks ubiqtuous in Wisconsin into believing they are brothers and sisters under the skin with those from Chicago who settled in Dimona, contract with Chabad to put them through the program, starve them on the barely edible food they procure and with a little bit of fine tuning there is your gang, Mr. Harris. Good luck.
@ ArnoldHarris:
the system you mention is what colloquially is known as the combina. I mentioned it several times.
It is so embedded that it is impossible to work it up from within. I will prepare an extensive response to you.
SHL, I heard from various sources that control of the Israeli government traditionally was locked up tight by Galitzianers — as contrasted with Litvaks — and that the former played every possible dirty trick to keep their fingers on the levers of power. My own ancestors on my father’s side were Litvaks from shtetls around Riga, and on my mother’s side, from other Litvaks who settled in United Kingdom earlier in the 19th century.
What about the Soviet Jews who came their in their own huge aliya after the USSR began falling apart? Liberman runs their political party, but has that bought them any influence among the insiders?
You surely know my Jewish nationalist interests from my numerous comments on Israpundit. Which particular gang would best serve Jewish nationalism, if they could get into power? I’m not interested in democracy in Israel or even in the USA. All I want is for Israel to become a bigger and much stronger power, and I don’t care what they have to do to achieve that. And what I want for America would be a complete reversal of just about everything done by the liberals since Reagan’s era.
Arnold Harris
Mount Horeb WI
@ SHmuel HaLevi 2:
I believe these depressing realities can be changed, not easy but possible. A big part of it is education. Jews worldwide need to be educated who these traitors are withinn our midst and the various names they go under and how they surpress Israeli democracy. This agenda has been cleverly devised by treasonous psychanalysts including but not limited to the so-called “Rabbi”, Rabbi my rectum, Michael Lerner.
It is unfortunate, to say the least, that the Israeli Supreme Court, which in my mind is not what it really is; rather seems to be a subsidiary of the so-called “shalom okshav” pro-terrorist organization. What a racket, leftist Jewish congregations and communities feeling weak in the knees when it comes to expressing their jewish heritage a ripe pickings for the slick PR representatives who market the umbrella organizations with a wide variety of names and facade agendas, like environmental or human rights or women’s rights to suck in those disaffected “Jews” who although financially secure enough to make a “generous donation” to a seeming “charity” as opposed to what it really is while not being at all intersted much in precisely what the money is actually going to support.
What we need are highly motivated youth who assertively go to the leftist congregations and educate the community at large exactly how they are being duped and how they are unwittingly undermining in so many ways; Israel. Not easy, but possible.
Purging the Supreme Court of quislings or getting through legislation to bypass them somehow, I do not have any good ideas short of a rebellion.
@ NormanF:
It would take some time to explain how it works, but basically governments here, since Ben Gurion went home, are NOT elected to govern the country.
They are carefully fabricated to protect the interests of the 18 families, to feed the tens of thousands of parasitic permanent force retirees which “retire” at the age of 50 or so and to create juicy state “jobs” for close and or remote relatives, to steal or to receive bribes or to bend to the calls of political “majers”.
Details can be expanded upon but not now
Zero.
Jerusalem’s approval process is entangled in red tape and all this red tape is causing Israel tremendous damage without real benefit.
In the meantime, not a single new apartment has been built anywhere in Jerusalem.
Shmuel and Yamit – aren’t you ashamed of your government’s incompetence – is this any way to run a country?
How many housing units out of the several thousand “approved” have been delivered?