Netanyahu tweeted 4 hours ago:
Under no circumstances and at no stage was Prime Minister Netanyahu warned of war intentions on the part of Hamas. On the contrary, all security officials, including the head of the Security Council and the head of the Shin Bet, estimated that Hamas was deterred and turned to the settlement. This is the assessment that was presented time and time again to the Prime Minister and the Cabinet by all the security forces and the intelligence community, including until the outbreak of the war.
@peloni
never again turned into yet again
on bibi’s 15+ year watch
when has appeasement worked ?
give me one example….bueller,bueller
so “Bibi’s policies worked for the past 15 years to keep Israel safe with occasional outbreaks of violence, but that is the same policy which defied all reason to defend against the motto of ‘Never Again’
Exactly
So are those 15 years a good tradeoff for 1400 dead and 4000 wounded?
200,000 missles pointed at Israel from all around it ? Jew hatred bubbling to
the surface all through the world ?
This existential war will continue for months …prosecuted by bibi and IDF heads and Intelligence who championed this “appeasement”
“oh only if we get out of Gaza …then the world will see we want only peace”
“oh only if we prevent jews from praying …praying …on the holy mount they will
see we want only peace”
“if only if we let in 1000’s of poor Fallistineans to help them make a living they
will see we onlly want peace”
If only we watch silently as the world creates a “refugee” hell hole for 4 generations of brainwashed arabs and we help with funding and food and
electricity, they will see we only want peace”
Events were predictable and frankly could not be stopped …not even if bibi had a set. So here we are and here is more predictability.
Bibi et al will prosecute this war to victory ….it will take months and
Gaza for all intents and purposes will be no more. Israel will have
a long term presence there …for many many years …and eventually will
annex it as will happen with Judea and Samaria.
Iran will see this and back off as will their proxies in Lebonon/Syria
(not without some serious noise)
The US will be forced by public opinion to take action against Iran but
it will be mostly show …once again …appeasement.
Israel will conclude only jews can save jews …..and act accordingly.
And may g_d have mercy not on their souls …but on ours.
@Felix
I have no reason to wish Bibi removed from office. Of course, I am and have ALWAYS been opposed to the mowing the grass policy, just as I have ALWAYS been opposed to the forced use of toxic shots and the refusal to permit safe alternative medications. That being said, these are not the reasons why Bibi would be removed, and both of these measures were met with overwhelming support of the Israeli public, regretfully enough. Consequently, in the matter of Black Saturday, there is at this point nothing for which to defend him. He is the wartime PM, and whatever catastrophic failures which took place on October 7, the fallout will either affect him following the victory in this war, or it will not. Such matters are a purely political rather than legal matter, and the electorate will likely be given the choice to make that determination. Til then, Bibi isn’t going anywhere, nor should he, as Edgar’s very astute comment below would support.
Personally, I do believe that the statements made by the PM and the PMO and Sara Netanyahu’s aid, and Patrick Byrne, and a few other sources as well, all sum up to conclude that the failure was likely not relatable to Bibi at all, but politics often ignores such realities, and Bibi’s future will likely be determined in no small part based upon how costly this war actually becomes and how complete the victory is able to be achieved. Edmarkus correctly notes, Bibi was PM during that catastrophich event and many will likely see it this way, no matter how much you or I or Edgar might find such judgements to be either arbitrary or unfair or even unwarranted.
So if there is something to defend to the hilt as you state, we can defend it later after the war when the murky matters clarify, if they ever do actually clarify, but til then, the success in this war is far too important to be saddled with such divisive commentaries and evidences, of which I have purposefully withheld telling a point or two, but will reveal at a later time.
@ felix
I am one of peloni’s bleating sheep
also I am the one who said that bibi is toast
peloni mearly states that bibi has rabbits up his tush in response …
.and elaborates on real culpabilities all over
so please be civil even though it seems (being kind) you don’t like him
more often then not, peloni is correct on the facts
whereas you do personal attacks in lieu of arguments
It further seems you are a bleating sheep for bibi
“In our words we have to say the opposite
That we have to make sure he is not”
imho he should have been toast long before this because
of his knowingly (Zelenko told him personally) pushing the toxic covid “vaccine” which resulted in untold casualties …..see https://www.vaxtestimonies.org/en/
so …so long yellow brick road
unfortunately his replacement will likely be far worse
100% on target, Edgar 🙂
I have seen many demands to the PM to fire the Intelligence chiefs and replace them immediately.
Need I say that this demand, a hasty, ill-thought reaction against the terrible failure is WRONG.
You all have heard the saying that “one should not change horses in mid-stream”. And it is a truism that needs no explanation
It would be a disaster of immense proportions. Because from now on, the Intelligence departments, conscious of their failures, are working smoothly and efficiently.
Time enough after eradicating Hamas and Gaza/Israel, to hold official enquiries, which likely will last a year or morel
It’s far more important to get on with getting on, with what the IDF and all Israel forces need to do, including looming a 2-3 front WAR. and WINNING them.
Edgar
It is not a matter of Peloni this or that.
It is that his talking of Bibi being finished that is totally traitorous.
Rather than being finished (I read his words)
In our words we have to say the opposite
That we have to make sure he is not
I quoted him fairly. What do you think he meant by that.passage I last quoted?
AS IN THE FOLLOWING
while I am not ready to write him off as of yet
PLUS
pending the full reveal of what actually took place
PLUS
it would likely take another miracle for him to survive this tragedy,
PLUS
which I have read is being labeled as Black Saturday by some.
With that “assistance” from Peloni Bibi will be hung drawn and quartered
In everything else you are right. He won the election and had a cabinet. He should have kept them out.
But NOW tell your friend to stop talking about the demise of Bibi
That might help.
FELIX-
I think you’re on the wrong track in reaming Peloni.. He is merely a supporter of the PM -as I am-. and certainly not a traitor, a very harsh accusation for the contents of a post you disagree with.
He says “I disagree with you AT THE MOMENT”. ……
It bothers me that Gantz feels strong enough to make such demands from the PM. And even more, that the PM immediately retracted his accusation against the Intelligence services.
Because He was right and Gantz was-as usual- wrong. The PM can act only on what his officials relay to him.
Gantz and crew are traitors and should never have been allowed into the War Cabinet, this failed General and his failed pals. What can he contribute except to carry on the dissention and attempted coup under a different guise.
Here, he’ showing that the PM is weak.
And I see in Arutz that the PM has announced extra water to SOUTH Gaza to attract the Gazans there against the Hamas orders to stay put
It doesn’t take much of a brain to know that Hamas will immediately seize the water outlet and re-pipe it back to Gaza City.
I must also say that Liebermann is correct. TOTAL WAR, the “civilians” who incidentally took part in the Oct 7th massacres, are all Jew haters and direct enemies of Jews and Israel. they are terrorist supporters is not more, and deserve NO humanitarian aid from Israel, or indeed any others Israel should maintain a strict embargo on ALL goods and services.
Either it’s a WAR -,or Tennyson’s “come in to the garden Maude”.
Still, one must admire the super-supple Israeli spine , the way they are able to bend so far backwards to be able to kiss the backsides of the Goyisher Jew-Haters..
The more I read Peloni the more dangerous this guy seems to get
The following is sheer traitorous
AS IN
Not ready to write him off
Another miracle
Black Saturday by some
Crikey the very opposite. Defend Bibi now to the hilt !
There is much talk here especially by Peloni of American aid
And the folk on Israpundit like sheep now reduce everything to American aid.
Thus the Israpundit discussion goes
But Peloni puts forward nothing as answer
So IMHO he’s not much use at all
Seems to me
* Not just Bibi but Israel was misled
* Bibi knows now well and has told Israel
At this point Peloni comes in with his awful prose but why does he come in
Really to lead away from the most important point
FOLLOWING IS THE IMPORTANT POINT IN ALL OF THIS
Bibi is in charge
And definitely leaders have misled him
SO
He should sack them, say why and have them replaced as of yesterday
Peloni leads away from this by his long winded dirges on the Americans and on Begin who gave up Sinai
Amazingly all about ending aid
Which in this critical situation is very risky
I think the judgment of Peloni Is wrong. Why is another matter. And everyone knows that for 3 years Ted always has loved Peloni
But when Peloni speaks the sheep bleat
I have nothing personal against the guy just that politically he does not impress me one bit.
I have not enough information to have real answers
But seems to me the war centred on two things
* the tunnels
* the twitter etc battle
Instead of huge prosaic crap from Peloni
Talk realistically about those 2 things
Some good writers here but…
I offer my opinion likely wrong
Hamas has anticipation of this so tunnels stocked with diesel etc
So fight the tunnels mainly from the air
And be in absolutely no rush to do anything
Above all there needs a leadership to bring this discussion into the idf as they wait…just don’t know practically how???
Again discuss
@edmarkus
Whereas I don’t disagree with your assessment at the moment, it should be recalled that Bibi has a knack for coming back. Though, while I am not ready to write him off as of yet pending the full reveal of what actually took place, it would likely take another miracle for him to survive this tragedy, which I have read is being labeled as Black Saturday by some.
One thing more to note, however, is that as Ben Gvir has stated, the failure was in no small part due to the established policy of supporting threats within Israel’s borders, which goes well beyond the particulars of what brought on the degree of this tragedy. Countering this, it is only fair to recognize that sans Ben Gvir’s faction, there has never been any interest in parting from the status-quo/mowing-the-grass policy save that of Loony Lapid and his Lunatic Leftists who wanted to give the Arabs a state. The real failure which brought on this tragedy was the fact that nearly no contemporary leader in Israel was willing to stand up to the Americans and say what Begin said 40 years ago:
Of course, Bibi opposed the Americans, to the limit that he did oppose them, during both his first, second, and third terms of office, and even went so far as to call to attack the American supported Iranian crescent back in 2012 when it was relatively more of an Iranian thorn, but he was opposed by his American-influenced ministers and generals which blocked him from doing so. So Israel stood with trembling knees as the American aid, which is little more than American self dealing to the American MIC, came to have an undo degree of influence within the halls of power within Israel, and they used that influence to have Israel abandon the very principles referenced by Begin when he refused to acquiesce to American threats.
Of course, Bibi did recognize the undo influence which the Americans held over the state early in his career, and he actually made a pledge to end the aid within 10 years of his first premiership, and he later also made the economic reforms which would have allowed Israel to have actually made that pledge a reality, but unfortunately for all, this policy was abandoned after American influence ended his first term in office.
Also, their was no appetite in the electorate for such a thing either or there would have been one leader elected over the past twenty years which advocated for such a thing, and yet there was none.
Consequently, aside from the details of what actually took place on October 7, there is a great deal of blame to be shelled out and no limit of those to whom to shell it. So if this tragedy should end Bibi’s career, it should likewise end nearly every other major political leader as well. Notably, Bibi’s policies worked for the past 15 years to keep Israel safe with occasional outbreaks of violence, but that is the same policy which defied all reason to defend against the motto of ‘Never Again’. The empowerment and protections allocated to Iran by the Americans played no small part in making this recent tragedy realized, but the threat of this tragedy has always been present, and only the most dishonest of us would deny the fact that this threat was always well known. It could be argued that it was the very presence of these threats which should have been better managed by eliminating them utterly, but the hard honest truth is that Israel was too greatly compromised by the whole of govt influence of the Americans to ever do what was so clearly in their interest to do to prevent such a tragedy from unfolding, which should be recognized as being the greater reason as to why we recently saw it unfold.
So should Bibi stay or should Bibi go, it must be recognized that Bibi’s presence was easily not the flaw which made this tragedy possible, probable or inevitable, but rather it was due to Israel’s supplication to a foreign power whose national priorities were clearly aligned with promulgating existential threats against Israel from both within her borders as well as those without. Hence,the American influence upon the Israeli govt was and remains the threat which must be removed. This rather than Bibi’s premiership is the fly in the ointment which must be resolved once this calamity has finally been remedied, or this tragedy will once again visit us in the future, and this, above all other possibilities, must be opposed with all our vigor and all our determination.
The aid must stop, and Israel must once more become an independent nation, free to make her own choices while still capable of freely choosing to maintain her association with the Americans, but only to the degree to which it is in her interest to do so, something which she has been under too much pressure from America to adequately assess and address, and this is the real cause of the Black Saturday affair, no matter the details which we will come to hear in time.
Or so I would argue in any event.
It should be loudly reported here that Minister Ben G’vir powerfully and clearly opposed Netanyahu’s and the IDF’s appeasement of the Hamas (tge PA as well), the only one in the cabinet. Even Smotrich went along with more aid to the genocidal Hamas. And because Ben G’vir objected he was excluded from the Security Cabinet, ostracized by all of the security bureaucracies and demonized by Israel’s sickening mass media.
re peloni
Although it won’t matter when the dust settles – months from now – bibi is toast – it happened on his watch and ultimately it is on him. However, it seems likely that the military / intelligence heads either through incompetence (most likely) or pure hatred of bibi (a factor) did not assess the situation and pass that on to bibi and cabinet. Retracting the truth does not change it. In this case, the fish stinks at the tail – happens when it is swimming backwards.
It should be seen as noteworthy that Gantz does not state that Bibi’s comment is inaccurate, just that he should not be dealing with the matter at this time.
There is this too:
I believe that this in combination with the above statement was a particularly important statement to make.